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On May 28 2009 15:24 alt.tday wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2009 03:35 Oystein wrote:On May 27 2009 23:55 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On May 27 2009 23:11 Oystein wrote:On May 27 2009 22:18 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On May 27 2009 22:08 Oystein wrote:On May 27 2009 21:49 Scaramanga wrote:On May 27 2009 21:24 Oystein wrote:
Man bisu got some jaw dropping macro, only caught him going above 700 minerals twice (and barely above) and both times during major battles... His multitasking is truly of another world. best/flash/jd/some of the newer gamers can keep their minerals this low aswell That don`t change the fact that its some insane macro  Lots of players got great macro for example forgg and Best, but you don`t see them harassing around, fighting a major battle while expoing AND keeping their minerals down. That is whats so sick about Bisu`s macro, he keeps it down while doing a million different things, hence I praised his insane multitasking skills who is probably the best of any progamer. (That`s not saying hes better overall than JD\Flash) Whenever Bisu tried to outmultitask JD he lost. Come on that`s just silly to say. Sure JDs got a good rec vs Bisu and have some really great outmultitasking games like the famous BS game, the othello game(the first time the hydra->muta was used to deal with archonless toss I think?) the first collo game and the Desti games. However bisu won both the long Andromeda games and the Medusa game via great multitasking. What? He won the last games on Andro and Medusa due to good defence and timing. That has nothing to do with multitasking. However his harass in both Desti games failed completely. You along with several others seem to have this notion of multitasking = harass, and if you fail at harass you fail at multitasking. I think you need to go re watch the medusa game, watch how in the big center battle Bisu is picking off overlords at 9 while charging 2 clumps of hydras in the center and storming them to death (this removing a good portion of JDs hydras and ensured that Bisu did not lose the next battle totally, since JD had tons of hydras in the center at the time) while taking an expo at 5 himself AND pumping new troops non stop at home, if that`s not great multitasking then I don`t know what kind of standards you go by.... In the andromeda game watch him expo himself to 3 while taking out JDs island expo with a DT drop and stopping a drop stone cold at home. Or later picking off the defiler with a DT going towards his 5 base with lots of lings while charging in his main army at JDs 9 base while his sairs was roaming around for lords like they do pretty much all game. Was his defense and timings impeccable in these 2 games and a big decisive factor of the wins? Sure, however that don`t change the fact that his multitasking shined through and was a factor of his wins also. wow oystein. ALL progamers can multitask. All the stuff Bisu does isnt that amazing. JD can def do as good. Why? Cuz he's one of the best in the world. Just cuz Bisu is known to be good at multitasking doesnt mean he's SO much better than everyone else. Especially if u compare him to someone like Jaedong
If you had bothered to read my first post on the subject you would have seen I never said hes the better player, and I even wrote that hes "PROBABLY" the best multitasker. That includes doubts that others like JD for instance is as good at it as him.
To quote myself.
That is whats so sick about Bisu`s macro, he keeps it down while doing a million different things, hence I praised his insane multitasking skills who is probably the best of any progamer. (That`s not saying hes better overall than JD\Flash)
So what if all progamers can multitask, all progamers can macro also, does that mean that you think Best\Forgg has a mediocre macro just because everyone else can do it to some extent? There are more things than just your multitasking or macro or whatever that makes the total skill of a player however that don`t change the fact that you can be insanely good at certain things without being the best overall player.
And yes he is so much better at multitasking compared to the average progamer, its a reason you don`t see any other tosses do stuff like for example he did vs roro, attack his 3rd, take his 4th and drop both his natural and main at the same time having the observer miss several of the actions. Of course the very best players have a similar multitasking like Jaedong (tho I feel that his multitasking don`t shine as much through since he more rely on his superb battle micro most games, tho it is top notch most games and if you watch him FPV and you see that he is all over the place, but when viewing the game from the obsers view it don`t look nearly as impressive as it really is), Flash and Jangbi with a few others who comes close.
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Noth Jaedong and Bisu are good at multitasking. End of case.
Players like Forgg and Best are amazing at macro but their multitasking ain't that great.
Players like Stork and Boxer aren't that good at multitasking either becouse they are fairly slow.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 27 2009 23:55 (paladin)roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2009 23:11 Oystein wrote:On May 27 2009 22:18 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On May 27 2009 22:08 Oystein wrote:On May 27 2009 21:49 Scaramanga wrote:On May 27 2009 21:24 Oystein wrote:
Man bisu got some jaw dropping macro, only caught him going above 700 minerals twice (and barely above) and both times during major battles... His multitasking is truly of another world. best/flash/jd/some of the newer gamers can keep their minerals this low aswell That don`t change the fact that its some insane macro Lots of players got great macro for example forgg and Best, but you don`t see them harassing around, fighting a major battle while expoing AND keeping their minerals down. That is whats so sick about Bisu`s macro, he keeps it down while doing a million different things, hence I praised his insane multitasking skills who is probably the best of any progamer. (That`s not saying hes better overall than JD\Flash) Whenever Bisu tried to outmultitask JD he lost. Come on that`s just silly to say. Sure JDs got a good rec vs Bisu and have some really great outmultitasking games like the famous BS game, the othello game(the first time the hydra->muta was used to deal with archonless toss I think?) the first collo game and the Desti games. However bisu won both the long Andromeda games and the Medusa game via great multitasking. What? He won the last games on Andro and Medusa due to good defence and timing. That has nothing to do with multitasking. However his harass in both Desti games failed completely.
The harass in the destination games failed completely because JD had burrowed lings literally ALL over the map and Bisu insisted on dropping despite that ;o
I mean, it's not (that) hard to stop drops when you see them as soon as he leaves his main..
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But why didnt the zerg kill of the main of the toss? Anybody can elaborate on that?
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On May 29 2009 07:03 Navane wrote:
But why didnt the zerg kill of the main of the toss? Anybody can elaborate on that?
Maybe nOtable didn't know that he was playing bisu and told himself "Whatta Noob... I'm gonna make him suffer using Queens"
+ Show Spoiler +
I saw that the muta was trying to destroy the cyber core to prevent bisu from making more goons and corsair... And Also, just maybe his calculations was that the mutas wouldn't survive another onslaught from goons/sairs combo if he keeps on pounding the nexus.
just my IMO
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i dont understand why all the replays dont come with a version information. is it 1.16.1? 1.15.3? 1.15.1? i got patches for all possible sc versions, therefore i can switch it within 5 seconds. but its just so annoying to have to try each one of them until the replay 'works'.
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On May 28 2009 17:43 AttackZerg wrote:
actually bisu is amazing because of his multi-task/timed aggression. He pulls of many varied attacks simultaniously, that is his trade mark. Not to mention after his brutal harrass he has gateways,units , and expo's to go back to.
There is a reason he is the only protoss that can still pull of sair/reaver openings.
Watch bisu first person vs jaedong on bluestorm. During the micro intensive harass, he is spending more screen time macroing.
Bisu IS so much better then every other protoss are you joking? He was defending a bad argrument which was 'jaedong negates his multitask' when in reality jaedong simply keeps up.
Bisu multitask better then nearly every other pro gamer also. Infact only jaedong and maybe flash can be compared.
lol you're stupid. There are other protosses that can pull of sair/reaver openings. And statistically Jaedong is better than Bisu, and in previous practice bisu has quoted that Jaedong beat him every time, so dont even say that Jaedong "keeps up" with Bisu's play. Watch Jaedong/ Flash's replays too. They multitask just as fast. True, Bisu has fast apm for a protoss, and he can multitask better. But he's not that much better. Why'd he lose to violet in his most recent game in a straight up 20 minute match? You tell me. Bisu is indeed a great gamer, with nice multitasking skills and high apm, but compared to other pro-gamers not by that much.
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On May 29 2009 15:25 alt.tday wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2009 17:43 AttackZerg wrote:
actually bisu is amazing because of his multi-task/timed aggression. He pulls of many varied attacks simultaniously, that is his trade mark. Not to mention after his brutal harrass he has gateways,units , and expo's to go back to.
There is a reason he is the only protoss that can still pull of sair/reaver openings.
Watch bisu first person vs jaedong on bluestorm. During the micro intensive harass, he is spending more screen time macroing.
Bisu IS so much better then every other protoss are you joking? He was defending a bad argrument which was 'jaedong negates his multitask' when in reality jaedong simply keeps up.
Bisu multitask better then nearly every other pro gamer also. Infact only jaedong and maybe flash can be compared.
lol you're stupid. There are other protosses that can pull of sair/reaver openings. And statistically Jaedong is better than Bisu, and in previous practice bisu has quoted that Jaedong beat him every time, so dont even say that Jaedong "keeps up" with Bisu's play. Watch Jaedong/ Flash's replays too. They multitask just as fast. True, Bisu has fast apm for a protoss, and he can multitask better. But he's not that much better. Why'd he lose to violet in his most recent game in a straight up 20 minute match? You tell me. Bisu is indeed a great gamer, with nice multitasking skills and high apm, but compared to other pro-gamers not by that much.
KIM TAEK YONG HWAITING!
"and in previous practice bisu has quoted that Jaedong beat him every time" - where did he say that?
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On May 29 2009 15:25 alt.tday wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2009 17:43 AttackZerg wrote:
actually bisu is amazing because of his multi-task/timed aggression. He pulls of many varied attacks simultaniously, that is his trade mark. Not to mention after his brutal harrass he has gateways,units , and expo's to go back to.
There is a reason he is the only protoss that can still pull of sair/reaver openings.
Watch bisu first person vs jaedong on bluestorm. During the micro intensive harass, he is spending more screen time macroing.
Bisu IS so much better then every other protoss are you joking? He was defending a bad argrument which was 'jaedong negates his multitask' when in reality jaedong simply keeps up.
Bisu multitask better then nearly every other pro gamer also. Infact only jaedong and maybe flash can be compared.
lol you're stupid. There are other protosses that can pull of sair/reaver openings. And statistically Jaedong is better than Bisu, and in previous practice bisu has quoted that Jaedong beat him every time, so dont even say that Jaedong "keeps up" with Bisu's play. Watch Jaedong/ Flash's replays too. They multitask just as fast. True, Bisu has fast apm for a protoss, and he can multitask better. But he's not that much better. Why'd he lose to violet in his most recent game in a straight up 20 minute match? You tell me. Bisu is indeed a great gamer, with nice multitasking skills and high apm, but compared to other pro-gamers not by that much.
Bisu's Outsider game is the first time I've seen a full out reaver/sair in a looooong time. There's a reason why not many people use it anymore despite the map control and aggression it gives. No one has the skills to make the strategy an efficient one but Bisu.
If you want examples of how much that small difference between Bisu's multitasking and his opponents actually makes, just watch some of his vZ games. That small difference translates into other progamers with "not that much" worse multitasking getting completely stomped and raped. That's how much a small difference makes in the pro gaming world.
Also, the practice games that Bisu and Jaedong played was over a year ago. You can't compare the slumping Bisu of back then to the Bisu of now. You just can't.
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United States11393 Posts
On May 29 2009 16:42 isbunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2009 15:25 alt.tday wrote:On May 28 2009 17:43 AttackZerg wrote:
actually bisu is amazing because of his multi-task/timed aggression. He pulls of many varied attacks simultaniously, that is his trade mark. Not to mention after his brutal harrass he has gateways,units , and expo's to go back to.
There is a reason he is the only protoss that can still pull of sair/reaver openings.
Watch bisu first person vs jaedong on bluestorm. During the micro intensive harass, he is spending more screen time macroing.
Bisu IS so much better then every other protoss are you joking? He was defending a bad argrument which was 'jaedong negates his multitask' when in reality jaedong simply keeps up.
Bisu multitask better then nearly every other pro gamer also. Infact only jaedong and maybe flash can be compared.
lol you're stupid. There are other protosses that can pull of sair/reaver openings. And statistically Jaedong is better than Bisu, and in previous practice bisu has quoted that Jaedong beat him every time, so dont even say that Jaedong "keeps up" with Bisu's play. Watch Jaedong/ Flash's replays too. They multitask just as fast. True, Bisu has fast apm for a protoss, and he can multitask better. But he's not that much better. Why'd he lose to violet in his most recent game in a straight up 20 minute match? You tell me. Bisu is indeed a great gamer, with nice multitasking skills and high apm, but compared to other pro-gamers not by that much. KIM TAEK YONG HWAITING! "and in previous practice bisu has quoted that Jaedong beat him every time" - where did he say that?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=94245
Nevake: Stork had just done that same build to Yellow like a week before btw.
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On May 27 2009 23:55 (paladin)roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2009 23:11 Oystein wrote:On May 27 2009 22:18 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On May 27 2009 22:08 Oystein wrote:On May 27 2009 21:49 Scaramanga wrote:On May 27 2009 21:24 Oystein wrote:
Man bisu got some jaw dropping macro, only caught him going above 700 minerals twice (and barely above) and both times during major battles... His multitasking is truly of another world. best/flash/jd/some of the newer gamers can keep their minerals this low aswell That don`t change the fact that its some insane macro Lots of players got great macro for example forgg and Best, but you don`t see them harassing around, fighting a major battle while expoing AND keeping their minerals down. That is whats so sick about Bisu`s macro, he keeps it down while doing a million different things, hence I praised his insane multitasking skills who is probably the best of any progamer. (That`s not saying hes better overall than JD\Flash) Whenever Bisu tried to outmultitask JD he lost. Come on that`s just silly to say. Sure JDs got a good rec vs Bisu and have some really great outmultitasking games like the famous BS game, the othello game(the first time the hydra->muta was used to deal with archonless toss I think?) the first collo game and the Desti games. However bisu won both the long Andromeda games and the Medusa game via great multitasking. What? He won the last games on Andro and Medusa due to good defence and timing. That has nothing to do with multitasking. However his harass in both Desti games failed completely.
And most of his harass on bluestorm
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On May 29 2009 15:25 alt.tday wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2009 17:43 AttackZerg wrote:
actually bisu is amazing because of his multi-task/timed aggression. He pulls of many varied attacks simultaniously, that is his trade mark. Not to mention after his brutal harrass he has gateways,units , and expo's to go back to.
There is a reason he is the only protoss that can still pull of sair/reaver openings.
Watch bisu first person vs jaedong on bluestorm. During the micro intensive harass, he is spending more screen time macroing.
Bisu IS so much better then every other protoss are you joking? He was defending a bad argrument which was 'jaedong negates his multitask' when in reality jaedong simply keeps up.
Bisu multitask better then nearly every other pro gamer also. Infact only jaedong and maybe flash can be compared.
lol you're stupid. There are other protosses that can pull of sair/reaver openings. And statistically Jaedong is better than Bisu, and in previous practice bisu has quoted that Jaedong beat him every time, so dont even say that Jaedong "keeps up" with Bisu's play. Watch Jaedong/ Flash's replays too. They multitask just as fast. True, Bisu has fast apm for a protoss, and he can multitask better. But he's not that much better. Why'd he lose to violet in his most recent game in a straight up 20 minute match? You tell me. Bisu is indeed a great gamer, with nice multitasking skills and high apm, but compared to other pro-gamers not by that much.
Every time you post calling me stupid you are wrong. Like I pointed out before when it comes to starcraft and the pro gaming scene, you don't actually know anything. I've already pmed a mod about you calling me stupid two times in under 60 posts while being wrong each time.
Actually the other protosses using sair/reaver have a losing winning % since december but you would know that since you've seen all the games and can list them (probably 90% tbh) by map and player since you can clearly do that you would know that other then storks recent dismantling of a TERRIBLE yellow , protoss just aren't doing well with it. Only bisu is.
Everything else you quoted from the interview is biased also, jaedong claims to have lost also. Keeping up with extensive harrassment is exactly what jaedong did, he didn't preemptively strike it in the bud or dominate it in the famous bluestorm game, he simple kept up. Learn about broodwar before you post your terrible opinions day in and day out.
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jesus fuck you guys need to chill lol
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Hahahaha. Gotta love internet warz.
And that dude was rightfully banned.
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On May 27 2009 21:18 Ash wrote:
I dont get it . Why didnt he finish off Bisu's main Nexus when he had so many mutas?
fixed
but I have no answer ^^ pretty weird
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On May 28 2009 17:43 AttackZerg wrote:
actually bisu is amazing because of his multi-task/timed aggression. He pulls of many varied attacks simultaniously, that is his trade mark. Not to mention after his brutal harrass he has gateways,units , and expo's to go back to.
i agree w/ this, bisu has got "the sense" on top of multitask.
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On May 28 2009 21:08 Piste wrote:
Noth Jaedong and Bisu are good at multitasking. End of case.
Players like Forgg and Best are amazing at macro but their multitasking ain't that great.
Players like Stork and Boxer aren't that good at multitasking either becouse they are fairly slow.
I have to agree with this. Anyone who thinks Bisu is just "an average progamer" has blind hatred against Bisu.
His abilities compared to Jaedong are controversial, but aside from Jaedong he is a clear cut above everyone else.
And people mentioning Bisu losing to Violet should also consider Jaedong losing to hyvaa. Even the best of the best will lose games occasionally, it's normal. To say that Bisu is bad because he lost to Violet straight up is to say that Jaedong is bad because he lost to hyvaa.
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EPT
