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Braavos36402 Posts
On April 09 2008 13:16 populis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2008 22:12 grobo wrote:On April 07 2008 21:20 populis wrote:
Just a curious note: from all 59 (at the time of this writing) games Mondragon played, only ONE is against a korean (and it was at C- level).
So what? he openly admitted in his interview that he was gonna dodge Koreans, in a tournament where Koreans are not even allowed to play why would anyone risk losing a bunch of games when you don't have to? especially when there is so much money at stake. That's your point. Do the math, calculate the risks, manage to win every little game with reasonable and solid formulae, calculate more probabilities, then you're top48. Great. Can't imagine something more exciting than this. Anyway, this is just my point. I really don't see any "magic" in this. And since we are talking about a *star* league, with all the hype, prizes, "determination", and all that ideological talking, it seems just like the attitude from the koreans losing games on purpose at WCG just to not face other koreans at elimination stage. Attitude strongly disaproved by the foreign community.
In a ladder with a choice of which opponents to play there will always be strategy in selecting your opponents. That is just the reality of any ladder where you can pick who you play.
However, there are only so many "weak" players to play before you find yourself among only strong ones. I'm not saying Mondragon's game list is only weak players, but the only reason he's able to be selective and play so few games is precisely because of his ridiculous winrate. While ICCup favors massgaming up until around the B+/A- range, he doesn't have to go to massgame because he wins so many. If he can qualify at 70-6 while someone else needs 130-70 (and play Koreans because of lack of foreigner games) then that's just a solid strategy and level difference.
The goal of the qualifier isn't to show what you can do against the top Korean players, it's to qualify for the TSL.
That said, there is something of a positive in playing many games on the ladder against all opponents to practice (look at XiaoZi's game list) to be in better shape for when the qualifiers come.
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On April 09 2008 03:46 TT1 wrote:
a- is top 16 easily
With 11 days to go? I doubt it. Top 48, probably, but I wouldn't be so sure about top16. I mean don't get me wrong, but he's at 1600 points from #17, as someone pointed out. I think the whole top48 will easily climb 1600 points in 11 days. In fact, 9008 points might not even get you in the top48. Maybe high A- like 9900+
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Braavos36402 Posts
On April 09 2008 14:00 CubEdIn wrote:With 11 days to go? I doubt it. Top 48, probably, but I wouldn't be so sure about top16. I mean don't get me wrong, but he's at 1600 points from #17, as someone pointed out. I think the whole top48 will easily climb 1600 points in 11 days. In fact, 9008 points might not even get you in the top48. Maybe high A- like 9900+
I think you severely underestimate just how many people you can play at B+/A-
Mondragon is currently #30 on all of ICCup, and every game he plays with an equal ranked opponent, even with MOTW, is going to +/- same points win or lose. The 29 guys above him are littered with progamers, semipros, and practice partners, and several of the guys below him too.
It's way, way harder to climb once you are B+ or above, especially this season. I wouldn't project the same rates of growth we've seen in the first week or so out for the rest of the ladder. If you check people's match lists, many of the top 16 and most of the top 48 have a hard time maintaining 2:1 or even 1:1 winrates at B+. It'll slowdown considerably.
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I see...
But even so, Aren't there at least 20 players besides him who'll get A- in 11 days? I doubt this position secures him a place in the top16. But you are right about top48, if you win/lose the same amount of points, climbing will be extremely difficult.
...but there's also the element of choosing opponents. As time goes on people will be clinging for a spot in the top48 and some may pick to play against lower-ranked opponents. And then there are the tournaments, and who knows what. I really think there will be way more people in the A/A- ranks than it looks like from this point. We'll see in about 6 days. 
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not to mention that clans that have some very good players can lift their best to a ridiculously
high level. just have the B+ guys milk the points out of the system and have them play their top player to which they all lose consistently. A- should be absolutely no problem to get...
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Whoa day[9] is playing too i wonder how far he will go
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On April 09 2008 14:05 CubEdIn wrote:I see... But even so, Aren't there at least 20 players besides him who'll get A- in 11 days? I doubt this position secures him a place in the top16. But you are right about top48, if you win/lose the same amount of points, climbing will be extremely difficult. ...but there's also the element of choosing opponents. As time goes on people will be clinging for a spot in the top48 and some may pick to play against lower-ranked opponents. And then there are the tournaments, and who knows what. I really think there will be way more people in the A/A- ranks than it looks like from this point. We'll see in about 6 days.
he may not be the #1 player from the qualifier, but i think he will be top 16 easy, he is already 700 points ahead of players below him and that high in the ladder 700 points is a lot. i dont think the top 16 will change much from what it is other than players like draco and testie rising
edit: i also think tarson will drop out of the top 16, and unless testie gets to work, he wont make it
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On April 09 2008 03:40 ReadyRok wrote:
hes got no choice to play koreans now, or he could just be gay and stop playing ....
Wtf would be gay about that? If he would hover around at #17-#48 doing the absolute minimum i'd agree but he's on #1 right now. This is the ladder stage, the bottom of this starleague, the only important thing here is to qualify. Even if he would play koreans, nothing would change, he would still qualify.
Some use the ladder stage for practice, others just to get a spot. As soon as we're in the qualifiers round it won't matter anyway.
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Now that we're at the A/B level, it's going to be very interesting to see how each player's individual records bottom out with relation to the competition. Should be good.
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The TSL ladder page takes like 5 mins to load, maybe admins could divide it into pages or something?
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On April 10 2008 03:14 Pwntrucci[sR] wrote:
The TSL ladder page takes like 5 mins to load, maybe admins could divide it into pages or something?
Yeah i noticed that too lately, it takes forever to load.
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I don't have anything against Testie but it would seem pretty biased to condone 12 games in a row against the same person.
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should efinitely be a reset !
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Well if they reset me for it, they'd better do it now and not wait until the end of the season.
I have no problem with being reset. But in my defense, I didn't know I broke the rules, those were iccups rules, not TSL's rules to my knowledge.
And I'm not playing for the sake of iccup.
But if it's their decision, that's cool too and i'll just start over.
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United States20667 Posts
I hope your quote isn't a Janice quote ;p
It's my opinion that Testie shouldn't be reset, and I've said so in the appropriate fora. The other staff are largely of the same mind, as long as he doesn't do anything similar in the future.
Hm.. as for Mondragon dodging, I think that's by far a more sensible course of action than going off and challenging GGPlay, GoRush, SlayerS_'BoxeR', Jangbi, and whatever other Korean pros are running around ICCUP at the time.
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It's not like Testie would have trouble at D/D+ rank anyway, it would just be a waste of time to reset him imo.
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so wat? testie gets special treatment for bashing 1 newbie 12 games in a row? infact all his opponents have a win ratio of 40% or lower, iv seen people reset for alot less 
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On April 10 2008 06:53 ReadyRok wrote:so wat? testie gets special treatment for bashing 1 newbie 12 games in a row? infact all his opponents have a win ratio of 40% or lower, iv seen people reset for alot less
those people werent testie
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Resetting him for a thing like that is only gonna force him to rape his way to C rank again in a couple of hours. It has nothing to do with the fact that it's THE TESTIE it's just that he never purposely tried to cheat his way to a better rank. If some random newbie were to do this in order to gain rank he would get reset because he abused the system to gain a rank he should never have been able to reach in the first place.
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EPT
