EPTOn April 02 2009 12:44 traced wrote:
luxury above bisu? seriously? get outta town
luxury above bisu? seriously? get outta town
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Power Rank 03/04/2009 - Page 24
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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LxRogue
United States1415 Posts
On April 02 2009 07:18 fanatacist wrote: Wrong, PR is a reflection of actual skill. If Luxury can't take Bisu or Flash in a Bo5 then he does not have greater skill than them. And this isn't because of a weak MU or something. Look at what you said carefully. The PR is a reflection of actual skill. Luxury actually won the MSL against strong opponents in a convincing manner. Bisu and Flash didn't even get the chance to play him; they looked inconsistent. Skill is not based on hypotheticals, its based on results. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
I use my experience and starcraftskill to judge wether or not a player is better than the other, but cannot claim that im right for that matter. From what I have seen, performance or not. Bisu has played better than flash, flash has player better than luxury. I just watch the games and decide how strong of a player I think they are. So this way it would be jaedong bisu flash luruxy, but then you have to make performance worth something so it will probably get tossed around abit. But i don't like relying 100% on performance alone, starcraft is too complicated for that and we dont want another kesparanking. As an example, the way flash got eliminated by leta in the starleague or by fantacy/jaedong in the WL won't hurt him in my book atleast. One great example of how good flash is, is watching him vs stork in the allstar. Also watching him on RH3 vs jaedong with such a disadvantageous start is a great example. + Show Spoiler + (his strat was based on taking mapcontrol in the beginning and he wasnt able to do that since he got caught in a bad place with his marines early on. Starting with SKterran after you are contained with lurkers is pretty much autolose many times. | ||
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Magic84
Russian Federation1381 Posts
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Malinor
Germany4758 Posts
On April 02 2009 15:35 LxRogue wrote: Skill is not based on hypotheticals, its based on results. QFT 1. JD 2. Luxury 3. Bisu 4./5. Fantasy/Jangbi Bisu over Fantasy/Jangbi because beneath his 0-3 in OSL he played decently and you don't drop the 1st of last PR too much because of one bad series. Fantasy and Jangbi also didn't play too much. If however, Fantasy wins the OSL, my Ranking is screwed. Flash is so great. But he is something like 3-3 in March and already dropped in both leagues before. In my book he cannot be Top5 this month. | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
Bisu, Fantasy, and Lux/Flash are debatable. Jangbi sucks and gets lucky brackets. Players like him who dismiss the mental factor do not belong in starleague finals. The question is how to you judge people on the factor of a few off games. Bisu played like a beast the entire month, but had a few costly slipups. His infamous game 5 vs Jaedong, being sniped by Hoejja in an important WL match, and he looking far different against Fantasy than he did vs Flash a few months ago all question a #2 placement. He at least showed that his poor form vs Fantasy was temporary though in allkilling the Terran lineup. That isn't very surprising though considering all he had to do was beat Flash; no other Terran there was really much of a threat. Nada has shown 1 great game where Jangbi played like a lost and confused kid who thought he could screw around vs some newbie, and had nothing special otherwise. Leta/Hwasin are just horrid at TvP. Fantasy 3-0'ing Bisu the way he did was incredible. Yeah Bisu wasn't playing like the #1 untouchable PvT'er he was the past few months on that day. But Fantasy's decisions in games 1/3 were amazing, and his play in game 2, outside of the afk wraith, was absolutely stunning in how well he controlled the game. Oh and he beat his PR competition Luxury too in the OSL, showing how beastly oov's new build is. Like FS I fully expect the oov/fantasy combo to flatten Jaedong in the hardest starleague run since Bacchus/Incruit. Flash/Lux is tough because the only reason Flash isn't in the finals of both leagues is because of an overloaded schedule. Notice how the only games he lost in that period of domination was when he had different games on the same day or on consecutive days. I questioned his form after those damaging losses, but his play vs Jaedong and Stork as Stylish said was top notch, and in addition there was the scary finish against Leta/Yarnc. Lux definitely deserves credit for beating Leta but Zero defeated himself in their semis and Jangbi is not a worthy opponent. It was a good proving ground for Lux's ZvP though, showing that he can effortlessly defeat inferior players even in his worst matchup. Given the importance of keeping PR precedents (Bisu dropping to #5 upon dropping both leagues, same with Flash, underlying the importance of starleague games despite ridiculously unfair circumstances), I'm going to have to give the nod to Lux and leave Flash at 5. Even though Flash, when he plays well like he did vs Leta, ole yeller, Jaedong, and Stork, makes you wonder 'how can he ever lose,' he did have some uncharacteristic mistakes that resulted in key losses (the early marine losses vs Jaedong, sloppy micro vs Much). Lux missed a bunch too, but he did save KTF vs SKT1 and won the MSL convincingly. 1) JD 2) Fantasy 3) Bisu 4) Lux 5) Flash | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On April 02 2009 10:50 fanatacist wrote: Did both of you miss the part where I said that it wasn't because of a weak MU? Overall I believe Flash and Bisu are stronger players than Luxury. And I don't even like Flash, before you bring that up. ZvT is Luxury's weakest match-up? ... And that was just an example about Bo5's among each other being unimportant. Flash lost against Leta in MSL, Luxury won. Doesn't that mean he's better? Luxury could definitely take on most people in a Bo5, Bo1 is what he is weak at. But Fantasy second? That's a stretch. He beat Bisu, yes, but Hero didn't even make it into the PR after he beat Bisu, for example. Besides that, he's beat Luxury and lost to him... before that he's been sucking. 7-3 last 10... It's pretty good, but definitely not #2. That's ridiculous. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On April 02 2009 21:44 Shikyo wrote: Flash lost against Leta in MSL, Luxury won. Doesn't that mean he's better? thats not how it works  | ||
disciple
9071 Posts
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captainwafflos
United States212 Posts
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
On April 02 2009 22:48 disciple wrote: If fantasy rapes JD he should claim the top spot. well then he clearly deserves a spot over bisu, even if he gets raped | ||
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brjdrb
United States577 Posts
On April 02 2009 22:55 captainwafflos wrote: if i remember right, leta's play against flash in msl was cheddarific too. just game 3. game 2 was standard, and an incredible game to watch | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
#1 WL, All-kill of KTF, OSL Finalist, beat the mechanics wonderboy by.hero that some people were foolish enough to put above Jaedong, Beat Bisu 3-2 in the GOM showmatch. No questions here. 2. Bisu #2 WL, All-kill of Terran line-up, stood toe-to-toe with Jaedong in 4 games of the GOM showmatch (which is something that no other player can claim), and is showing to be a favorite over Flash in his matches against him. His play is still monstrous, I wouldn't put Flash or Luxury over him in a Bo5. Cons: 0-3 to a very murderous-looking Fantasy, who is also his teammate (advantage to the weaker player IMO). Fantasy's spot-on play for the first time in a long time and Bisu's one day off should not be held against him as severely as everyone is making it out to be. WL loss to Hoejja... He's still #2 in WL. 3. Luxury MSL winner over a pretty respectable Jangbi... Don't remember enough else about him to place him here, was his MSL run spectacular? WL stats? Respond with information, because just an MSL win seems kind of lonely in justification for #3. Cons: Jangbi is not that great at PvZ, and although he got pretty much worked, even a convincing manner against Jang "Mindgames ain't shit" bi isn't THAT impressive in my eyes. I still see Lux as an underdog to Flash/JD/Bisu, but Flash dropped the ball (possibly due to pressure), so we can't see how dominant he is besides his TvP game vs. Stork/Bisu and TvZ vs. Jaedong. The two of those that I watched were great games, but he lost vs. Jaedong. 4. Fantasy OSL semi-finalist, 3-0 Bisu in a semi-final isn't a small feat even if he is your teammate and he is having an off-day. Bisu's revamped PvT being taken down in such a dominating fashion is worth mentioning. On top of that, Bisu has always been seen as a great BoX player, and Fantasy just recently rose to that reputation in my mind with this performance. Cons: Most likely to get crushed by JD in the finals despite his BoX preparation, because JD is just a monster. Although this is hypothetical, none of us will argue I think that JD is the favorite because Fantasy isn't nearly as good as Bisu who can stand as a near equal to JD or Flash who pushed JD to a close-ass game on RH3. His TvZ is simply not that good, and JD has shown that he knows how to handle the neo-mech builds that Fantasy is famous for. He was terrible in WL. No other notable accomplishments really. 5 - 7 Flash/SkyHigh/JangBi 8-10 IDK | ||
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Tom Phoenix
1114 Posts
 JangBi is a rather mixed bag. On one hand, he showed some really good performance up to the Lost Saga MSL. But during the finals and since then, his performance has become rather sub-par. I guess he is taking his reputation as the new King of Silver really hard. I think somewhere in the middle would be best for him.I also think  sAviOr might deserve a spot on the Power Rank this month. A low rank, to be sure, but a rank nevertheless. Yes, it is true that he lost to ZerO, which is a big stain to his progress, and his last few plays in the Winner`s League were not particularly good either. However, we cannot ignore the fact he has been performing significantly better then during his slumping period. Also, we need to factor in some of the all-kills he made in the Winner`s League as well as his very good performance in the All-Star Race Battle. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On April 02 2009 22:48 disciple wrote: If fantasy rapes JD he should claim the top spot. I disagree. If he wins he deserves being 3rd or 4th but why take away everything jaedong has done this month like that. Jaedong has been playing better than anyone else and gotten better results than anyone else this month. He almost won the WL for Oz himself, almost every korean pro-gamer concider him the strongest gamer atm. Otherwise I pretty much agree with fanatacist, except I'd put flash over fantasy and fantasy over luxury IF fantasy wins OSL. And JangBi definately over skyhigh. Skyhigh won jaedongs 5-pool. No big deal. Then he won some poor protosses but still gets some credit because he played good. His win vs Hiya is pretty much the heaviest and hiyas tvt isnt that amazing. | ||
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disciple
9071 Posts
On April 03 2009 00:40 StylishVODs wrote: I disagree. If he wins he deserves being 3rd or 4th but why take away everything jaedong has done this month like that. Jaedong has been playing better than anyone else and gotten better results than anyone else this month. He almost won the WL for Oz himself, almost every korean pro-gamer concider him the strongest gamer atm. Otherwise I pretty much agree with fanatacist, except I'd put flash over fantasy and fantasy over luxury IF fantasy wins OSL. And JangBi definately over skyhigh. Skyhigh won jaedongs 5-pool. No big deal. Then he won some poor protosses but still gets some credit because he played good. His win vs Hiya is pretty much the heaviest and hiyas tvt isnt that amazing. I dont know how the situation of fantasy should be different from the one of ForGG back in Arena MSL. He basically would've raped the top 2 in the scene atm in order to win the tournament. Not to mention that if fantasy beats JD his run will include a comeback vs the current MSL champ, Lux as well. In my eyes fantasy will deserve the top spot if he manages to take the OSL home in a onesided series. In any other scenario (even if fantasy wins 3-2 or smth) JD is the undisputed #1 | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
There is just no way Fantasy could have won WL semifinals and finals for SKT1 alone, but Jaedong could and almost did. That sais something about their skill. | ||
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Samurai-
Slovenia2035 Posts
On April 02 2009 07:18 fanatacist wrote: Wrong, PR is a reflection of actual skill. If Luxury can't take Bisu or Flash in a Bo5 then he does not have greater skill than them. And this isn't because of a weak MU or something. This is completely false, PR is a reflection of the player performance over the month.. If it was a reflection of actuall skill, then we can all agree that flash, bisu, and jaedong could hold #1 for months, since they are the most skilled players imo, but sadly, you need to perform.. Flash had a bad month,lets face it.. Jaedong showed strong strong play, he should be #1, no contest.. Luxury should be second, he won MSL, he got far in OSL, and he won games, which matter.. Yes, he lacks some areas of his play more then others, but winning games > loosing games. Third place is hard.. We have bisu, who lost to ktf zerg sniper in game 2, lost 0:3 in OSL.. I could care less for fun-event, since its all that is, FUN.. yes, he got an all-kill, but stork won 3 games as well yet noone seems to bring that up.. Leta also got 3 kills.. Anyway, the even doesnt matter at all here.. Then we have here fantasy, who 3:0 bisu.. But he wasnt even in a PR last month, so i dont think you can just come and jump to place 3 because of it, since besides OSL, he didnt performed well in WL at all.. Then there is jangbi, who got a silver MSL, carried Samsung in WL, and showed strong play everywhere, and not only this month, since he was #4 in PR last month.. Bringing all the facts together, and since Bisu lost 3:0, showing weak play, i would put Jangbi #3. Bisu should be #4, and fantasy #5. Now if fantasy wins in the finals, he should jump. How far, who knows, since its a whole new month.. Last 5 who knows, there were not many games so its hard to decide, By.hero should come, but what place, i dont know. Flash should also stay on PR, stork probably as well.. Skyhigh could appear as well.Then who knows, as i ve already said, too little games have been playes  .. That is ofcourse, how i would put PR, so dont jump my balls too much  | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On April 03 2009 02:25 Samurai- wrote: Third place is hard.. We have bisu, who lost to ktf zerg sniper in game 2, lost 0:3 in OSL.. I could care less for fun-event, since its all that is, FUN.. yes, he got an all-kill, but stork won 3 games as well yet noone seems to bring that up.. Leta also got 3 kills.. Anyway, the even doesnt matter at all here.. Then we have here fantasy, who 3:0 bisu.. But he wasnt even in a PR last month, so i dont think you can just come and jump to place 3 because of it, since besides OSL, he didnt performed well in WL at all.. Then there is jangbi, who got a silver MSL, carried Samsung in WL, and showed strong play everywhere, and not only this month, since he was #4 in PR last month.. Bringing all the facts together, and since Bisu lost 3:0, showing weak play, i would put Jangbi #3. Bisu should be #4, and fantasy #5. Now if fantasy wins in the finals, he should jump. How far, who knows, since its a whole new month.. You forget the fact that the special event means money and pride too, so they did practice a lot. And beating July+ the twins cannot be compared with alkilling the T lineup, including Flash who declared he will allkill the toss lineup. That actually shows a lot of the players' strength. I dont see from where you got that Jangbi over Bisu stuff, Jangbi lost too, got a game from the finals, beacause Lux decided to suicide ~30cracklings for nothing when the upgrade finished and he had the momentum. Getting owned by Lux on Z maps or getting owned by Fanta on T maps, one isnt worse than the other, and if you exclude their bo5 loss, Bisu over Jangbi EZ. Yeah, got snipied from a mapartifacat-abusing allin, big deal. Jangbi couldnt even get his team into the playoffs, not even close. Ridicoulos, you use the WL performance against Bisu in favor of Jangbi. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
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