Zero: Zero is, in my eyes, the next big zerg. He is incredible. However, he's only incredible sometimes, and that's a problem. It's becoming more frequent, but with hyvaa showing his stuff on a consistant, reliable basis in WL, there's a clear seperation between the two for the PR spot. Zero isn't capable of carrying his team yet, and hyvaa has done everything he can to drag eSTRO out of their permanent home at the bottom of the ranks. Make no mistake - if Zero can get his shit together on TV, we have a Starleague champion. He's not the first person in that situation, and he won't be the last, but god damn he's playing some badass starcraft some days.
Savior: Okay, Savior got to the round of 8 in MSL before being stopped ZvZ by a guy with the best Mutalisk control on the scene today. Not really an accurate barometer of what the Maestro is capable of in a series these days. Looks like we'll have to wait until next MSL, where he is already seeded. In the meantime he's been dropping games left and right in WL, and it makes me kinda sad.
by.hero: This guy, like Zero, is playing some BAD FUCKING ASS starcraft. The difference is that while Zero plays awful some days and loses, then plays well and slaughters.. by.hero plays at a consistant level, but it doesn't work. At the time of the Power Rank coming out, by.hero had only won 4 of his last 10 games - legitimate losses to superior players all. Then he was fortunate enough to draw the weak TvZ player fantasy, and Leta in freefall. He still couldn't beat fantasy, but Leta went 0-2 that day, and by.hero advances. Now, he's in a series against Hwasin in which the first game was a drastic one-sided affair, Ultralisks everywhere. by.hero is an enigma, but as of the writing of this month's Power Rank, there simply wasn't enough information available, and the information I could get didn't speak good things in total.
fOrGG: Lost 0-3 to Stork the other day. Too bad, he's a really good player. He'll be back, and if he wins a bunch of games, look for him on the Power Rank. He's definitely got the skills.
I find it exceedingly funny that for one singular MSL, fOrGG changed up his style to aggressive, unorthodox build orders coupled with timed transitions to huge macro play - and fucking obliterated everyone he came across, including Flash and Jaedong, the guys everyone thought were guaranteed finalists. After that MSL, fOrGG went straight back to his old ways of macroing like a something out of a Zerg player's nightmare, but throwing away everything he makes like a donkey. Maybe it just makes him happy.
free: free still sucks, get used to it.
Hiya: Hiya is cool as hell, but aggressive TvP builds against robotic Protoss morons in WL does not a PR placement make. Get into a league, win some more games against people who aren't complete idiots, maybe we'll see you in a month or two.
Iris: Iris is a guy who's made a career of doing those aggressive builds I just mentioned, but against all three races, with style, poise, and ferocity. He's 11-5 in Winner's League, playing pretty well. But, he was eliminated from MSL by Tempest, so get the fuck out of my Power Rank. P.S. - I love you
I prayed to the KTF coaches to give you the proleague match off before your OSL game. Everything seemed to come crashing down with his game versus Upmagic. Before then, he had dominated the previous 3 games against Estro. Then he completely screwed up versus Upmagic, then Best like 2 hours later, and then Leta the next day.
GREAT PR fakesteve, i really got supriesed by some of the choices but i really think you nailed it. Glad to finaly se Leta fall somewhat, he really was overrated no way id ever have put him above the trio of death (JD, Bisu, Flash).
On March 04 2009 23:24 Darth Peter wrote: Great PR.
with Hwasin over Light imo, but that isn`t such a big deal :D
I had definitely thought of this, the first few drafts this month had those two players in that order.
After sitting down and watching five wins each from both players, I just couldn't realistically say that Hwasin is playing better. OSL and MSL matter, but strength of play must reign supreme. At any rate, it's just the 8th and 9th spots
Even though I would have placed Flash a little higher (since its really the team pressure that got to him), great PR nontheless.
I agree that game 5 of Bisu vs Jaedong was disappointing, but props to Bisu for having the guts to try a experimental 1 gate tech build he practiced for on the last set of the game.
The Top 7 looks solid , but after that players can change a bit :
Not only Light has looked good in WL out of the terrans also Hiya and iris and some other terrans have produced results . I probably would have switched Light with Hiya after OZ vs Khan . He beat JangBi on Andromeda and Stork on Medusa i know both JangBi and Stork didn't played the best of their abilitys , but Hiya played some fine starcraft and taking out those two an those maps is an amazing achievement i would say .
Hwasin's placement is fine definitely better then placing other players like Fantasy/Nada/ForGG for now .
Also i would replace hyvaa with by.hero , but thats my thought and personal pick . Hyvaa has been doing pretty good in WL and some of his games are top notch not to mention that he has been doing 3 kills and other stuff like that , but i think that by.hero is a better zerg then hyvaa . He is the only zerg who now has a winning record together with maybe Jaedong against Bisu in recent events . He is 3 - 0 against Bisu this past months and 3 - 1 overall ( he has 1 loss to Bisu in PL 2007 where on one knew him . ) . His most recent game against Bisu on Taucross he showed that he is a master of macro and control in ZvP and his play style is similar to July . Also i would note that in his ZvT games that weren't against mech and he wasn't bunker rushed (Fantasy ) he has looked pretty good i would say . I think he is a solid player in both ZvP and ZvT although i have to see more ZvTs from him to claim that statement . What i do know is that his ZvP is one be feared .
Other then that the PR is solid , people could argue that Zero can be added here but based only on his ZvZ .... that wouldn't be a good call . I'm also glad that you gave some less popular players like hyvaa and Light spots , and not the more common Best/Kal/Free choices .
Great work and Thank you ! I hope the CBNC comes out quick so that there is something to read :D .
On March 05 2009 00:21 raga4ka wrote: The Top 7 looks solid , but after that players can change a bit :
Not only Light has looked good in WL out of the terrans also Hiya and iris and some other terrans have produced results . I probably would have switched Light with Hiya after OZ vs Khan . He beat JangBi on Andromeda and Stork on Medusa i know both JangBi and Stork didn't played the best of their abilitys , but Hiya played some fine starcraft and taking out those two an those maps is an amazing achievement i would say .
Hwasin's placement is fine definitely better then placing other players like Fantasy/Nada/ForGG for now .
Also i would replace hyvaa with by.hero , but thats my thought and personal pick . Hyvaa has been doing pretty good in WL and some of his games are top notch not to mention that he has been doing 3 kills and other stuff like that , but i think that by.hero is a better zerg then hyvaa . He is the only zerg who now has a winning record together with maybe Jaedong against Bisu in recent events . He is 3 - 0 against Bisu this past months and 3 - 1 overall ( he has 1 loss to Bisu in PL 2007 where on one knew him . ) . His most recent game against Bisu on Taucross he showed that he is a master of macro and control in ZvP and his play style is similar to July . Also i would note that in his ZvT games that weren't against mech and he wasn't bunker rushed (Fantasy ) he has looked pretty good i would say . I think he is a solid player in both ZvP and ZvT although i have to see more ZvTs from him to claim that statement . What i do know is that his ZvP is one be feared .
Other then that the PR is solid , people could argue that Zero can be added here but based only on his ZvZ .... that wouldn't be a good call . I'm also glad that you gave some less popular players like hyvaa and Light spots , and not the more common Best/Kal/Free choices .
Great work and Thank you ! I hope the CBNC comes out quick so that there is something to read :D .
Legitimate arguments in all, good post. Hiya's performance has been solid but there are key triggers that I value over other things. Light has been firing on all cylinders, and Hiya has been winning constantly with much more help from build order advantages. While that says a lot about his ability to prepare in a short time, his play hasn't been as solid as Light or hyvaa, who have done basically whatever the fuck they want in their WL games and walked away with a victory. With the style of play Hiya is using, his success isn't guaranteed to be long-term. Light and hyvaa are playing much stronger overall. This is, of course, subject to change, as no progamer in the history of time has played to the best of his abilities 100% of the time.
by.hero has won 4 of his last 10 games. That ought to be a pretty clear indication of his performance.
And yeah, ETA on CBNC is about 3 days. There's much more I have to think about. Mani, if you've got things you want to say there, please feel free
I feel like Hiya's been playing a little better than Hyvaa. In WL, they both have won 2/3 of their games (with Hyvaa playing a few more games) but I feel like Hiya's faced tougher opponents
other than that, no complaints other than Stork's about to get raped in both SLs and probably doesn't deserve his spot
If its based only on performance then I agree with the rankings. However if you mix in pure skill and who's most likely to be a favourite against anyone along with performance then i can't agree with luxury being above flash. Jangbi i don't really know havent watched all his games.
For example Luxury did win his games vs Leta in a very weak manner. It was more Leta losing than Luxury winning. Flash got out of this MSL by a freakin BBS and I'm sure that if he got past Leta he would have slayed Luxury like it was nothing because his TvZ has been absolute monstrous lately and overall I think he's the better player.
In my oppinion the top 3 players at the moment is JD Bisu and Flash with Bisu having to take the first spot because of his consistancy to perform at his highest level, whereas he's the worst of the three when all of them are performing their best.
I know you have to take in account the MSL and OSL but I think this was very harsh on Flash. I mean when Flash enters a WL match most people wont even get suprised if he all-kills, and I can't say the same for Lux and Jangbi.
In my oppinion, a proper mix of who's performing best at the moment along with who's actually playing the best starcraft would have lifted Flash a spot or two in the rankings. But maybe we have different views on what matters.
On March 05 2009 00:49 Sunyveil wrote: I feel like Hiya's been playing a little better than Hyvaa. In WL, they both have won 2/3 of their games (with Hyvaa playing a few more games) but I feel like Hiya's faced tougher opponents
other than that, no complaints other than Stork's about to get raped in both SLs and probably doesn't deserve his spot
I think the same but unfortunately you may never know with Stork. You cannot take him as an underdig because he will bite your dick off. I certainly hope that he gets raped because I don't like him,but he has to be the favourite against ForGG,and between teammates,anything can happen so he can beat Jangbi. I don't give him too much of a chance,but hey,you can't take him lightly. I don't talk about his match with JD,because there I am almost 90%sure that JD will win.
On March 05 2009 01:02 AnOth3rDAy wrote: This post mostly concerns the top 5.
If its based only on performance then I agree with the rankings. However if you mix in pure skill and who's most likely to be a favourite against anyone along with performance then i can't agree with luxury being above flash. Jangbi i don't really know havent watched all his games.
For example Luxury did win his games vs Leta in a very weak manner. It was more Leta losing than Luxury winning. Flash got out of this MSL by a freakin BBS and I'm sure that if he got past Leta he would have slayed Luxury like it was nothing because his TvZ has been absolute monstrous lately and overall I think he's the better player.
In my oppinion the top 3 players at the moment is JD Bisu and Flash with Bisu having to take the first spot because of his consistancy to perform at his highest level, whereas he's the worst of the three when all of them are performing their best.
I know you have to take in account the MSL and OSL but I think this was very harsh on Flash. I mean when Flash enters a WL match most people wont even get suprised if he all-kills, and I can't say the same for Lux and Jangbi.
In my oppinion, a proper mix of who's performing best at the moment along with who's actually playing the best starcraft would have lifted Flash a spot or two in the rankings. But maybe we have different views on what matters.
That's what people said before their OSL match in Ever OSL,when Lux 2-0'd Flash. Also,performing well in WL doens't make you the best player. Lux and Jangbi are fairly good in WL(Lux having an all-kill himself,don't mind me),and they are in at least one league. You have to play well in order to survive.
On March 05 2009 00:49 Sunyveil wrote: I feel like Hiya's been playing a little better than Hyvaa. In WL, they both have won 2/3 of their games (with Hyvaa playing a few more games) but I feel like Hiya's faced tougher opponents
other than that, no complaints other than Stork's about to get raped in both SLs and probably doesn't deserve his spot
I think the same but unfortunately you may never know with Stork. You cannot take him as an underdig because he will bite your dick off. I certainly hope that he gets raped because I don't like him,but he has to be the favourite against ForGG,and between teammates,anything can happen so he can beat Jangbi. I don't give him too much of a chance,but hey,you can't take him lightly. I don't talk about his match with JD,because there I am almost 90%sure that JD will win.
Stork has said many many times that he literally never beats Jangbi in practice. Take from that what you will
On March 05 2009 00:49 Sunyveil wrote: I feel like Hiya's been playing a little better than Hyvaa. In WL, they both have won 2/3 of their games (with Hyvaa playing a few more games) but I feel like Hiya's faced tougher opponents
other than that, no complaints other than Stork's about to get raped in both SLs and probably doesn't deserve his spot
I think the same but unfortunately you may never know with Stork. You cannot take him as an underdig because he will bite your dick off. I certainly hope that he gets raped because I don't like him,but he has to be the favourite against ForGG,and between teammates,anything can happen so he can beat Jangbi. I don't give him too much of a chance,but hey,you can't take him lightly. I don't talk about his match with JD,because there I am almost 90%sure that JD will win.
Stork has said many many times that he literally never beats Jangbi in practice. Take from that what you will
Yeah,but if I remember correctly Anytime said that ForGG rarely won against JD,and he was surprised that he won in the MSL finals. Besides,if I remember correctly about the interview you're talking about,Stork said that lately he is like 50% against Jangbi in practice games,so he found out how to beat him. In their two OSL games in Ever OSL,JAngbi beat him ofc. I'm not saying I would consider Stork the favourite,but hell,I try to not get in underrating Storks chances because I did that before he faced Best and I was disssapointed.
On March 05 2009 00:49 Sunyveil wrote: other than that, no complaints other than Stork's about to get raped in both SLs and probably doesn't deserve his spot
Is he going to hit Jangbi in the MSL bracket? He'll probably lose to Jangbi and Jaedong then, poor guy
Stork is just amazingly good at getting through leagues.
On March 05 2009 00:49 Sunyveil wrote: other than that, no complaints other than Stork's about to get raped in both SLs and probably doesn't deserve his spot
Is he going to hit Jangbi in the MSL bracket? He'll probably lose to Jangbi and Jaedong then, poor guy
Stork is just amazingly good at getting through leagues.
Yes, the winners of Jangbi vs Nada and Stork vs Forgg will face each other.
On March 05 2009 00:49 Sunyveil wrote: other than that, no complaints other than Stork's about to get raped in both SLs and probably doesn't deserve his spot
Is he going to hit Jangbi in the MSL bracket? He'll probably lose to Jangbi and Jaedong then, poor guy
Stork is just amazingly good at getting through leagues.
If he beats ForGG and Jangbi beats Nada-both of them seem inevitable- then they will meet in the semi -finals.
Sending Flash to #5 for dropping out of both leagues is perfectly fair, given that Bisu was sent to #5 when he dropped out of both leagues two months ago. Too bad Flash won't get a second chance, though.
Bisu certainly deserves #1 this month, and Jaedong #2.
But Jangbi #3, seriously? He just lost three games in a row in WL, contributing to three losses for his team. Not that the other contenders on the list can be credited with consistency (thinking particularly of Luxury -- who has been playing both spectacularly and craptacularly alternatingly), but that's poor.
Generally, a very good PR. Light, Hwasin and hyvaa all earned their entries.
HYVAA!!!! He's really been deserving notice recently, and I'm glad he got some here. He just doesn't lose against anyone who isn't S Class. He loses to free's insane PvZ, Flash's TvZ, Bisu's selfexplanatory PvZ and JD's ZvZ. Thats been about it. Glad you see it the same way FS.
On March 05 2009 01:25 okum wrote: Sending Flash to #5 for dropping out of both leagues is perfectly fair, given that Bisu was sent to #5 when he dropped out of both leagues two months ago. Too bad Flash won't get a second chance, though.
Bisu certainly deserves #1 this month, and Jaedong #2.
But Jangbi #3, seriously? He just lost three games in a row in WL, contributing to three losses for his team. Not that the other contenders on the list can be credited with consistency (thinking particularly of Luxury -- who has been playing both spectacularly and craptacularly alternatingly), but that's poor.
Generally, a very good PR. Light, Hwasin and hyvaa all earned their entries.
...have you somehow missed the numerous, SAVAGE thrashings Jangbi has been dishing out lately? The guy is playing world-class StarCraft, how can you not have noticed? You really think three losses in WL counteract this?
In my oppinion the top 3 players at the moment is JD Bisu and Flash with Bisu having to take the first spot because of his consistancy to perform at his highest level, whereas he's the worst of the three when all of them are performing their best.
your opinion just xxx ,, bisu is most surten the best of the three when all of them are performing their best
bisus elo tlpd record is also higher than of any other player including oov at his hight flash jd and so on ,,, he is clearly nr 1 ,, at any other point in history when a player had close that elo ranking he was considerd to be by far the best player without any doubt ,,but in truth they were not as dominant overall in all matchups together like bisu is now
nice powerrank overal i totaly aggree with top 5 spots
This is a really good PR, and I like it a lot. However, I think that ZerO would have been better on the PR than Hwasin. He's made a semifinal(playing only ZvZ admittedly, but made one nontheless), while Hwasin has not yet this season. In addition, he's been doing better than Hwasin in WL, and occasionally shows monstrous play.
Also, I think HiyA deserves CBNC, although I see you already covered that.
On March 05 2009 01:25 okum wrote: Sending Flash to #5 for dropping out of both leagues is perfectly fair, given that Bisu was sent to #5 when he dropped out of both leagues two months ago. Too bad Flash won't get a second chance, though.
A big diffrence is Bisu got stomped in the MSL and was playing what was suposed to be a sub-par player in the OSL. Flash lost an epic game to Upmagic (where he nearly came back from a huge disadvantage) and was very close to beating Best. In the MSL he went out to Leta who is defenatly #2 terrean by every ranking system (PR ELO and Kespa).
IMO Flash deserves 4th and Lux should have been 5th
[quoote]Bisu certainly deserves #1 this month, and Jaedong #2.[/quote] I don't think anyone will dispute that.
But Jangbi #3, seriously? He just lost three games in a row in WL, contributing to three losses for his team. Not that the other contenders on the list can be credited with consistency (thinking particularly of Luxury -- who has been playing both spectacularly and craptacularly alternatingly), but that's poor.
Generally, a very good PR. Light, Hwasin and hyvaa all earned their entries.
Agreed.
Also lol at the comments on #10 (hyvaa) evidently for FS 10 != 10.
Seeing Light that high, while he plays only in WL it's kinda strange. While many players are doing great, like Zero. There are many WL beasts like Hiya, Iris, Free, Yarnc, Kal +noname Terrans coming from nowhere, who take down big names and clean up lesser players. but w/e its a low rank, many contenders few places.
I think Free might be playing better than some of the lower ranked players, but that horrible series against ForGG probably ruined his chance. Did you look at Free as a contender for a low spot Steve, maybe cbnc?
All in all, pretty damn good rank a few small things, but everyone has there own opinion. Here is it what I thought it was a few days ago.
1. Bisu 2. Jaedong 3. Jangbi 4. Flash 5. Luxury 6. Leta 7. Stork 8. Light (look at this guys record recently its really good) 9. Hyvaa 10. Hwasin
So pretty close I think Zero, Hiya, and maybe Free deserve cbnc.
Yeah I find it kind of odd that one of the justifications for Jangbi being #3 is that his play looks great when Luxury is right there at number 4 being placed that high for practically the opposite reason.
But it's more of a note than a gripe. I like this list and I've really enjoyed the games the last month.
I think a dark horse candidate for CBNC would be Iris. Also give a shoutout to Anytime and Reach because, frankly, who doesn't like Anytime or Reach?
On March 05 2009 00:21 raga4ka wrote: The Top 7 looks solid , but after that players can change a bit :
Not only Light has looked good in WL out of the terrans also Hiya and iris and some other terrans have produced results . I probably would have switched Light with Hiya after OZ vs Khan . He beat JangBi on Andromeda and Stork on Medusa i know both JangBi and Stork didn't played the best of their abilitys , but Hiya played some fine starcraft and taking out those two an those maps is an amazing achievement i would say .
Hwasin's placement is fine definitely better then placing other players like Fantasy/Nada/ForGG for now .
Also i would replace hyvaa with by.hero , but thats my thought and personal pick . Hyvaa has been doing pretty good in WL and some of his games are top notch not to mention that he has been doing 3 kills and other stuff like that , but i think that by.hero is a better zerg then hyvaa . He is the only zerg who now has a winning record together with maybe Jaedong against Bisu in recent events . He is 3 - 0 against Bisu this past months and 3 - 1 overall ( he has 1 loss to Bisu in PL 2007 where on one knew him . ) . His most recent game against Bisu on Taucross he showed that he is a master of macro and control in ZvP and his play style is similar to July . Also i would note that in his ZvT games that weren't against mech and he wasn't bunker rushed (Fantasy ) he has looked pretty good i would say . I think he is a solid player in both ZvP and ZvT although i have to see more ZvTs from him to claim that statement . What i do know is that his ZvP is one be feared .
Other then that the PR is solid , people could argue that Zero can be added here but based only on his ZvZ .... that wouldn't be a good call . I'm also glad that you gave some less popular players like hyvaa and Light spots , and not the more common Best/Kal/Free choices .
Great work and Thank you ! I hope the CBNC comes out quick so that there is something to read :D .
by.hero has won 4 of his last 10 games. That ought to be a pretty clear indication of his performance.
I don't agree here. Hwasin has won 4 of his last 10 games, yet you obviously feel that's not a clear indication of his performance if you gave him a PR spot. They're in the same OSL quarterfinals, and even though he's had some tough losses in ZvT by.hero's ZvP performances have been extremely good. I think he deserves a CBNC as much as Zero does (I mean, if he faced nothing but ZvPs all the way through the OSL do you think he'd have trouble making the finals?). With July as his mentor to be honest I think I'd give him a good chance of taking anyone in the OSL down in a series besides Hwasin and Jaedong, for obvious reasons. Unfortunate for him that those are the two he'd probably have to go through to reach the finals.
I agree with the PR itself though, very nice. I think I'd have put Hyvaa higher, personally, maybe I just like him.
Am surprised that Light and Hyvaa's listed in there but the bottomw 5 were close anyway with Free,Zero and a few other. CBNC will hopefully list them and besides PR's always great!
There's an argument as to the order, but JD and Bisu are definitely the top two in the world right now.
With both Leta and Flash stumbling, it's hard for me to pick which one of them should be ahead of the other. But one gets the feeling that if there was some other Terran who was doing well, he would be ahead of both of them.
The top 10 was easy this time agree alomst 100% had the same top9 player and forgot about Light. The only thing diffrent i would have made switch place between Stork and Leta.
JD - probably the only person in the world that can take a bo5 from Bisu ( oh wait... )
I dont know why everybody is bitching about Jangbi. He's a freaking MONSTER. And if it wasnt Bisu on the other side during the GOM finals, Jangbi would have faceraped, and walked away with that badge.
Lux is ..well lux :D he either kicks ass or sucks monumentally
and frankly Flash broke my heart hope he gets back to his killer form
from 6-10, it gets a bit messy I do agree with many of the players, but Leta... that shit is just unacceptable
Hyvaa is a good choice for 10 and...cant wait for CBNC
On March 05 2009 01:25 okum wrote: Sending Flash to #5 for dropping out of both leagues is perfectly fair, given that Bisu was sent to #5 when he dropped out of both leagues two months ago. Too bad Flash won't get a second chance, though.
Bisu certainly deserves #1 this month, and Jaedong #2.
But Jangbi #3, seriously? He just lost three games in a row in WL, contributing to three losses for his team. Not that the other contenders on the list can be credited with consistency (thinking particularly of Luxury -- who has been playing both spectacularly and craptacularly alternatingly), but that's poor.
Generally, a very good PR. Light, Hwasin and hyvaa all earned their entries.
...have you somehow missed the numerous, SAVAGE thrashings Jangbi has been dishing out lately? The guy is playing world-class StarCraft, how can you not have noticed? You really think three losses in WL counteract this?
Yeah, well. Flash has been pretty brutal too (even in the games he lost).
On March 05 2009 05:38 sh02hp0869 wrote: The top 10 was easy this time agree alomst 100% had the same top9 player and forgot about Light. The only thing diffrent i would have made switch place between Stork and Leta.
As Fakesteve said, Stork is still in both leagues, Leta isn't in either. Leta also has a losing record in his last 20 games.
I think the point is that Stork wins when it matters. But, Samsung really needs to pick it up in the next two rounds of PL to make up for their horrendous WL season.
On March 05 2009 04:48 simfarm wrote: I really wish you didn't talk down to progamers =/.
Pro athletes of all sports get talked down about if they are not performing as or above expected of them. I don't see anything wrong with it. People expressing there disappointment, love, and hatred for different players or teams makes any sport more interesting. StarCraft wouldn't be nearly as interesting if even the fans acted as politically correct as almost all of the players do in interviews.
I approve of this list, though I'm not happy about the truths it tells. Damn it flash, you done let me down. Also a bit unsure if hwasin even belongs on it. I mean I haven't really followed his games in the past few weeks but it seems whenever I see him play I see him play poorly.
On March 05 2009 09:57 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Where's the dissent? The uproar? The torches and pitchforks? Is everyone simply coming to terms with my superiority?!
You should have done something outrageous, the whole fun of these things is the intense angst they generate.
It's not too late to stick in Hyuk at #6 and swap Jaedong with Luxury.
On March 05 2009 09:57 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Where's the dissent? The uproar? The torches and pitchforks? Is everyone simply coming to terms with my superiority?!
You did a really good job in the public's opinion [: That can be a good thing or bad thing, depends on how you view the average StarCraft player's power of analysis... Not going to say more...
Wait a week then start arguing with people who are proposing future positions for players n_n
On March 05 2009 09:57 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Where's the dissent? The uproar? The torches and pitchforks? Is everyone simply coming to terms with my superiority?!
you're too good. I bow down to you. However, there is a disturbing amount of late-CBNC-ness. I cannot have this "CBNC after power rank" nonsense.
Stork and Luxury's performances i think don't warrant their positions. And Jaedong behind Bisu well hmm... both are still dropping a few games here and there and i think its fairly equal but considering the GomTV match you'd think JD would be first.
On March 05 2009 09:57 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Where's the dissent? The uproar? The torches and pitchforks? Is everyone simply coming to terms with my superiority?!
On March 05 2009 09:57 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Where's the dissent? The uproar? The torches and pitchforks? Is everyone simply coming to terms with my superiority?!
Ok Jaedong, this month you will knock that protoss off the pedestal and reclaim the rightful zerg throne to number 1.
Considering we are only allowed one representative (because zerg are dumb like that) we must be the absolute best player at the time. You carry the zerg race on your shoulders Jaedong, don't let some protoss keep the throne.
ehh, 8-10 might be off, but who really cares about them anyway. The rest of the PR is fine. My inner JaeDong fan boy is content to wait until he crushes Bisu 3-0 in the OSL for #1.
Strong PR - I can't think of any real way to "Fault" it even if there might be some nitpicking at the bottom. Top3 aren't provoking any controversy and the hyvaa pick was a nice surprise - and well supported.
Are we not counting the end result of the "most hyped match ever"? Sure it was a crappy game but c'mon, one person walked away the victor and it was not the num.1 on the pr.
On March 05 2009 14:16 n.DieJokes wrote: Are we not counting the end result of the "most hyped match ever"? Sure it was a crappy game but c'mon, one person walked away the victor and it was not the num.1 on the pr.
Bisu has played consistantly stronger over the duration of February. The only way Jaedong would be #1 was if he totally destroyed Bisu. The series was immensely close, and both players were stellar. Bisu has been better in the games he's played outside that series by a pretty significant margin, why on earth would Jaedong be #1 when that GOM series was as close as it was? You can't decide this shit on one best-of-five, players are more than one matchup and five games.
On March 05 2009 14:16 n.DieJokes wrote: Are we not counting the end result of the "most hyped match ever"? Sure it was a crappy game but c'mon, one person walked away the victor and it was not the num.1 on the pr.
Bisu has played consistantly stronger over the duration of February. The only way Jaedong would be #1 was if he totally destroyed Bisu. The series was immensely close, and both players were stellar. Bisu has been better in the games he's played outside that series by a pretty significant margin, why on earth would Jaedong be #1 when that GOM series was as close as it was? You can't decide this shit on one best-of-five, players are more than one matchup and five games.
#1/2 was the part of hte PR I was most anticipating. I agree with you FakeSteve.
Bisu beat Jaedong the day before in WL. They were 3-3 over a 24 hour period. All but game 5 of the showmatch were high quality games. Bisu's choke is a mark against him. He kinda earns it back since three of the games were played on >60% ZvP maps. Call the weekend a wash. Eh, maybe slight edge Jaedong, since he did win the Bo5 series.
I don't feel like there is another player right now who could take Bisu in a Bo5. Possibly July, ever the god of ZvP. Certainly no P or T -- his play in these matchups has been devastating, almost unbeatable in anything but a fluke single game. With Jaedong, I feel like Flash could take him in a series. Possibly Hwasin or free. (really hoping for Hwasin vs Jaedong OSL semis) ZvZ is the only matchup I would just write the opponent off against Jaedong without knowing who it is.
The difference isn't their near-perfect play against each other. It's their play against the rest of progaming. It's also close enough that if Jaedong does better in OSL, he should climb to #1.
What I really like about this PR is that the differences it had with the PR I would have made... I ended up agreeing with them. For example Jangbi > Flash. Also nice catch with hyvaa's strong February.
You honestly think July has a chance of beating Bisu in a bo5? :/
Besides Jaedong, I think the only player at the moment who could stand a chance would be Jangbi, and to a lesser extent, Flash (not really on Flash, here). Anyone else remember that PvP on Destination where Jangbi's insane multitask and control sealed the win with multiple harass on different fronts? The storm drops were just devastating, and Jangbi's defense was rock solid. Bisu had nothing on Jangbi, who was in control the entire game.
That being said, Bisu for sure deserves the number one spot.
...I await the day EffOrt appears on the powerrank
On March 05 2009 14:16 n.DieJokes wrote: Are we not counting the end result of the "most hyped match ever"? Sure it was a crappy game but c'mon, one person walked away the victor and it was not the num.1 on the pr.
Bisu has played consistantly stronger over the duration of February. The only way Jaedong would be #1 was if he totally destroyed Bisu. The series was immensely close, and both players were stellar. Bisu has been better in the games he's played outside that series by a pretty significant margin, why on earth would Jaedong be #1 when that GOM series was as close as it was? You can't decide this shit on one best-of-five, players are more than one matchup and five games.
#1/2 was the part of hte PR I was most anticipating. I agree with you FakeSteve.
Bisu beat Jaedong the day before in WL. They were 3-3 over a 24 hour period. All but game 5 of the showmatch were high quality games. Bisu's choke is a mark against him. He kinda earns it back since three of the games were played on >60% ZvP maps. Call the weekend a wash. Eh, maybe slight edge Jaedong, since he did win the Bo5 series.
I don't feel like there is another player right now who could take Bisu in a Bo5. Possibly July, ever the god of ZvP. Certainly no P or T -- his play in these matchups has been devastating, almost unbeatable in anything but a fluke single game. With Jaedong, I feel like Flash could take him in a series. Possibly Hwasin or free. (really hoping for Hwasin vs Jaedong OSL semis) ZvZ is the only matchup I would just write the opponent off against Jaedong without knowing who it is.
The difference isn't their near-perfect play against each other. It's their play against the rest of progaming. It's also close enough that if Jaedong does better in OSL, he should climb to #1.
What I really like about this PR is that the differences it had with the PR I would have made... I ended up agreeing with them. For example Jangbi > Flash. Also nice catch with hyvaa's strong February.
He didn't choke, he made a bad build decision. I know he said he thought he had the game won when he saw 9pool, but you need to bring more probes. Let's be very clear here - to block the ramps on Andromeda you need two zealots and a probe, and Bisu had 'em. Yes, they were on hold position. However, watch the probe count on the overlay; a probe dies while Bisu's scout is still alive.
Most zergs wouldn't try to bust in, which is why Bisu let the probe and two zealots chill together, but Jaedong made a quick decision and executed his ling attack really well. It's still very much a luck-based thing, sometimes those two zealots will manage to stop the lings, sometimes they won't. It's a matter of pixels, not something a player has any true control over.
At any rate, Jaedong is the best ZvP player we've got, and Bisu is acceptably on par with him. He's been unstoppable on PvP and PvT lately as well, there is absolutely no reason why he would be lower than first
Uhhh Jangbi does not stand a chance against Bisu in a BO5, he only managed 1-3 against Bisu in both the MSL and GOM Intel Classic. The only people who has a chance are of course Jaedong, Flash, and Stork.
On March 05 2009 16:06 Empyrean wrote: You honestly think July has a chance of beating Bisu in a bo5? :/
I'd say July has about a 40% chance of taking a Bo5 against Bisu. Along with being one of the top two players at the matchup, July is also the kind of player who favors very aggressive hydra play, which if anything is Bisu's weakness in PvZ.
JD - probably the only person in the world that can take a bo5 from Bisu ( oh wait... )
bisu aint anywhere close to bonjwa as long as people like jaedong are there threatening to take his thrown.
savior in his prime wasn't questioned when it came to Bo5s, auto liquibet for any BoX with savior in it as long as it wasnt some super z v z expert, but even then, he did quite well during his run.
and when it comes down to results, jaedong won the bo5, bisu didnt.
oh well, this upcoming OSL will show u that bisu can't attain the bonjwa status ever as long as jaedong is on the scene, plus im hoping for flash's comeback next season.
oh the spoilerdrama. I wonder who would be stupid enough to search through the powerrank thread (or any thread on any bw-community site) without wanting anything to be spoiled..........
maybe its good to spoil things and let it be a lesson. only spoiler i hate is when they put it in the title of their post or if its on the first page or whatever where its easy to accidently look at while you're checking if the VODs are up.
On March 06 2009 02:20 done wrote: would love to see by.hero in here next time...this kid got some really promising results against S-class players lately
the thing about by.hero is that he'll beat bisu in 1 game and then lose to canata in the very next game. uhgg
On March 06 2009 03:43 Hugo(Sphere) wrote: Flash can take Bisu in a Bo5.
Yeah,you're right fanatacist,I was just pissed because he said something for what there's no proof. I think if Flash and Bisu would meet in two leagues,each would qualify from one. I just don't like statements like this coming out of nowhere.
There is no point in shooting down his opinion with statements with no facts, just like there is no point in him making such a factual statement with no backing. Although Bisu won their last Bo3, this was almost two months ago and they are both VERY good players; my opinion, as a Bisu fan, is that it could go either way. Just like Bisu vs. Jaedong and Jaedong vs. Flash. Stop saying fanboy this fanboy that and just responding with "no". The mods already warned us about stuff like that.
Honorable mentions should be Free, By.hero, Zero, Kal had a great month. Bisu is LWLLWL, got trashed by by.hero yet again. And bo5 is no joke, Jaedong deserved first place as well, The Group of Death was in February though, so i can see how he's not 1, nice list overall.
On March 06 2009 04:41 Magic84 wrote: Honorable mentions should be Free, By.hero, Zero, Kal had a great month. Bisu is LWLLWL, got trashed by by.hero yet again. And bo5 is no joke, Jaedong deserved first place as well, The Group of Death was in February though, so i can see how he's not 1, nice list overall.
I really do not understand your argument. You just picked the last 6 games of Bisu and concluded that he should be in second place. Let us look at the last 8 games of Jaedong: LWLLWLWW.
On March 06 2009 04:41 Magic84 wrote: Honorable mentions should be Free, By.hero, Zero, Kal had a great month. Bisu is LWLLWL, got trashed by by.hero yet again. And bo5 is no joke, Jaedong deserved first place as well, The Group of Death was in February though, so i can see how he's not 1, nice list overall.
I really do not understand your argument. You just picked the last 6 games of Bisu and concluded that he should be in second place. Let us look at the last 8 games of Jaedong: LWLLWLWW.
lol yeah, he's argument was weird, but your example is even worse ^^
On March 06 2009 04:41 Magic84 wrote: Honorable mentions should be Free, By.hero, Zero, Kal had a great month. Bisu is LWLLWL, got trashed by by.hero yet again. And bo5 is no joke, Jaedong deserved first place as well, The Group of Death was in February though, so i can see how he's not 1, nice list overall.
I really do not understand your argument. You just picked the last 6 games of Bisu and concluded that he should be in second place. Let us look at the last 8 games of Jaedong: LWLLWLWW.
lol yeah, he's argument was weird, but your example is even worse ^^
I think that was kinda the point - any argument along those lines is pretty much pointless.
On March 06 2009 04:41 Magic84 wrote: Honorable mentions should be Free, By.hero, Zero, Kal had a great month. Bisu is LWLLWL, got trashed by by.hero yet again. And bo5 is no joke, Jaedong deserved first place as well, The Group of Death was in February though, so i can see how he's not 1, nice list overall.
I really do not understand your argument. You just picked the last 6 games of Bisu and concluded that he should be in second place. Let us look at the last 8 games of Jaedong: LWLLWLWW.
lol yeah, his argument was weird, but your example is even worse ^^
On March 06 2009 04:41 Magic84 wrote: Honorable mentions should be Free, By.hero, Zero, Kal had a great month. Bisu is LWLLWL, got trashed by by.hero yet again. And bo5 is no joke, Jaedong deserved first place as well, The Group of Death was in February though, so i can see how he's not 1, nice list overall.
On March 06 2009 02:20 done wrote: would love to see by.hero in here next time...this kid got some really promising results against S-class players lately
the thing about by.hero is that he'll beat bisu in 1 game and then lose to canata in the very next game. uhgg
Thats , because he sucks vs mech like most inexperienced zergs ...
On March 06 2009 04:41 Magic84 wrote: Honorable mentions should be Free, By.hero, Zero, Kal had a great month. Bisu is LWLLWL, got trashed by by.hero yet again. And bo5 is no joke, Jaedong deserved first place as well, The Group of Death was in February though, so i can see how he's not 1, nice list overall.
Bisu is LWLLWL becuase of his ridiculous bo5 vs Jaedong. And taking 2 games from Jaedong is actually an impressive feat, seeing as nobody outside of the PR top 5 could probably take 2 games in a big even like the GOM finals
Bisu went a ridiculous 20 wins - 5 losses (80.00%) in Febuary ALONE. 37 wins - 11 losses (77.08%) in January AND Febuary So to judge Bisu on his last 6 games is pretty dick
And i think the reason why Jaedong is behind Bisu is this.. Bisu has lived up to the hype. He totally kicked ass in the GOM S2 and kicked ass all over the WL
both players are on fire, but i think the majority of TL will agree with me when i say Bisu is just a little hotter than JD right now
On March 06 2009 02:20 done wrote: would love to see by.hero in here next time...this kid got some really promising results against S-class players lately
the thing about by.hero is that he'll beat bisu in 1 game and then lose to canata in the very next game. uhgg
Thats , because he sucks vs mech like most inexperience zergs ...
agreed. And seeing how T1 is like the "godfather" of the mechanized TvZ play... I'm pretty sure all T1 terrans can play mech proficiantly with their eyes closed
..i'm still on the fence with by.hero i dont know if he kicks ass or is just another vP sniper time will tell
On March 05 2009 16:06 Empyrean wrote: You honestly think July has a chance of beating Bisu in a bo5? :/
Besides Jaedong, I think the only player at the moment who could stand a chance would be Jangbi, and to a lesser extent, Flash (not really on Flash, here). Anyone else remember that PvP on Destination where Jangbi's insane multitask and control sealed the win with multiple harass on different fronts? The storm drops were just devastating, and Jangbi's defense was rock solid. Bisu had nothing on Jangbi, who was in control the entire game.
That being said, Bisu for sure deserves the number one spot.
...I await the day EffOrt appears on the powerrank
Of course July has a chance he's always been a ZvP monster like others have said he has at least 40 % chances to take down Bisu . Besides Jaedong hmm by.hero is 3 - 0 against Bisu in this recent months and 3 - 1 overall against him so he should have a decent chance from what i have seen from him . I don't know how is Flash's form after he exited the leagues . I agree with JangBi thought he certainly has the skills to kill Bisu even in a series , but seems to lack something to do that effectively . I don't know how other players forms are to speculate
On March 06 2009 04:41 Magic84 wrote: Honorable mentions should be Free, By.hero, Zero, Kal had a great month. Bisu is LWLLWL, got trashed by by.hero yet again. And bo5 is no joke, Jaedong deserved first place as well, The Group of Death was in February though, so i can see how he's not 1, nice list overall.
Bisu is LWLLWL becuase of his ridiculous bo5 vs Jaedong. And taking 2 games from Jaedong is actually an impressive feat, seeing as nobody outside of the PR top 5 could probably take 2 games in a big even like the GOM finals
Bisu went a ridiculous 20 wins - 5 losses (80.00%) in Febuary ALONE. 37 wins - 11 losses (77.08%) in January AND Febuary So to judge Bisu on his last 6 games is pretty dick
And i think the reason why Jaedong is behind Bisu is this.. Bisu has lived up to the hype. He totally kicked ass in the GOM S2 and kicked ass all over the WL
both players are on fire, but i think the majority of TL will agree with me when i say Bisu is just a little hotter than JD right now
Yea, i've seen every single Bisu game in 09 and and he's a monster. He's awesome, but jaedong is no worse, and he beat Bisu just recently in bo5, bo5 is the least random thing in korean pro sc and should be taken into consideration for sure. I just think JD is the best player right now or top3 at worst (in a complete circle of elite players Flash > Jaedong > Bisu > Flash)
On March 05 2009 16:06 Empyrean wrote: You honestly think July has a chance of beating Bisu in a bo5? :/
Besides Jaedong, I think the only player at the moment who could stand a chance would be Jangbi, and to a lesser extent, Flash (not really on Flash, here). Anyone else remember that PvP on Destination where Jangbi's insane multitask and control sealed the win with multiple harass on different fronts? The storm drops were just devastating, and Jangbi's defense was rock solid. Bisu had nothing on Jangbi, who was in control the entire game.
That being said, Bisu for sure deserves the number one spot.
...I await the day EffOrt appears on the powerrank
Of course July has a chance he's always been a ZvP monster like others have said he has at least 40 % chances to take down Bisu . Besides Jaedong hmm by.hero is 3 - 0 against Bisu in this recent months and 3 - 1 overall against him so he should have a decent chance from what i have seen from him . I don't know how is Flash's form after he exited the leagues . I agree with JangBi thought he certainly has the skills to kill Bisu even in a series , but seems to lack something to do that effectively . I don't know how other players forms are to speculate
I think only Flash,JD,Stork and Best in their best forms could take out the Bisu of now in a series. July. I wouldn't give him 40%,but who knows.
As always, I disagree with a lot of the reasoning. However, in quite the reversal, I think the rankings are spot on.
For instance, I'm not convinced in Bisu's new age PvZ. Everyone knows what he's going to do now, and when he doesn't do it, he pulls stuff like in Jaedong-Bisu game 5. Mostly though, players have been adapting to his harass heavy style and completely shutting it down (following Jaedong's example, I might add). However, even with Jaedong beating him (and the fact that I believe Jaedong will always win a bo5 between the two), I think he deserves the top spot based on overall play.
On March 06 2009 06:13 DreaM)XeRO wrote: both players are on fire, but i think the majority of TL will agree with me when i say Bisu is just a little hotter than JD right now
Seems to be quickly forgetting how he crashed out of both the MSL/OSL though...lucky he got a second chance at one of them.
On March 06 2009 06:13 DreaM)XeRO wrote: both players are on fire, but i think the majority of TL will agree with me when i say Bisu is just a little hotter than JD right now
Seems to be quickly forgetting how he crashed out of both the MSL/OSL though...lucky he got a second chance at one of them.
Second chance is luck. Domination after that second chance is being on fire, as well as his WL performance.
On March 05 2009 14:16 n.DieJokes wrote: Are we not counting the end result of the "most hyped match ever"? Sure it was a crappy game but c'mon, one person walked away the victor and it was not the num.1 on the pr.
Bisu has played consistantly stronger over the duration of February. The only way Jaedong would be #1 was if he totally destroyed Bisu. The series was immensely close, and both players were stellar. Bisu has been better in the games he's played outside that series by a pretty significant margin, why on earth would Jaedong be #1 when that GOM series was as close as it was? You can't decide this shit on one best-of-five, players are more than one matchup and five games.
I understand that, its just that most of your descriptions in the power rank regard the bo5 series instead of their play as a whole so I figured you were drawing heavily from that series for inspiration. I'm not saying Bisu isn't a totally valid num.1.
by.hero's really not that good, I can't understand where this hype is coming from. This is akin to the BackHo fandom except by.hero is actually competent in some ways.
Don't get me wrong, he earned his round of 8 spot, but he's nothing special and he's not playing exceptionally well. Right now he's just a zerg, and an unreliable zerg at that.
On March 06 2009 12:23 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: by.hero's really not that good, I can't understand where this hype is coming from. This is akin to the BackHo fandom except by.hero is actually competent in some ways.
Don't get me wrong, he earned his round of 8 spot, but he's nothing special and he's not playing exceptionally well. Right now he's just a zerg, and an unreliable zerg at that.
The hype is coming from the fact that he beat bisu and made the Ro8. Worthy of hype, but I agree, his overall game leaves a lot to be desired.
On March 06 2009 12:23 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: by.hero's really not that good, I can't understand where this hype is coming from. This is akin to the BackHo fandom except by.hero is actually competent in some ways.
Don't get me wrong, he earned his round of 8 spot, but he's nothing special and he's not playing exceptionally well. Right now he's just a zerg, and an unreliable zerg at that.
The hype is coming from the fact that he beat bisu and made the Ro8. Worthy of hype, but I agree, his overall game leaves a lot to be desired.
Well, he is inconsistent. But then again, he hasn't played many games recently. The few he did play though looked pretty good to me. He's a machine vs Protoss. However he's facing Hwasin in the OSL, who obviously isn't a protoss. Instead he is a machine himself. Vs. Zerg
He's not inconsistent, his other matchups just aren't as good as his ZvP. His ZvP has been looking really sharp lately and I'm very interested to see if he can improve his other matchups enough to become a top player within the next season or two.
The fact that Hwasin has really good TvZ will imo be less problematic than the fact that they're teammates, being the younger less experienced player it's probably going to be harder for him to deal with this kind of situation when it comes to preparing. I'm kind of curious if July is still going to be helping him out.
I'd say Stork gameplay is quite good. He's just playing so safe. Which leads people to think his play sucks when he's just ensuring victory through macro play.
I mean, if Stork played poorly, that doesn't exactly say much for the skills of July, Jaedong, and Yarnc.
Can you please stop side-tracking the discussion? Neither Magic~Phil nor myself was talking about the WL, considering Stork wasn't really doing any winning there. Everyone knows Stork pretty much just said a big "Fuck You" to the proleague. That was a given.
And Stork beat Jaedong the same way he defeated Yarnc and July, even if it was this month. What he did against Jaedong simply confirmed that his placement on the PR is legit. And so is his PvZ(given practice time).
Yes, obviously his placement is legit, but he is too inconsistent right now, but he has started to show signs of improvement. FYI, you were talking about his gameplay, I don't see how I sidetracked it by showing how he's still pretty inconsistent, even in PvZ.
Rereading these posts, it seems we all agree on Stork's placement on the PR. We just state it differently.
On March 07 2009 10:48 Avidkeystamper wrote: Yes, obviously his placement is legit, but he is too inconsistent right now, but he has started to show signs of improvement. FYI, you were talking about his gameplay, I don't see how I sidetracked it by showing how he's still pretty inconsistent, even in PvZ.
Stork's not inconsistent. In fact, you can say he's VERY consistent in his play. If only you don't just use the TLPD for monthly totals, you'd see how consistent Stork is. And why he continues to advance in the starleagues despite a crappy record overall.
Yes, I have seen his games, and I don't see how you could say Stork is "VERY consistent". He might have been, and is starting to be again. Anyways, I was describing his performance last month, not right now. And by consistent, I mean consistently good, because that doesn't give an "overall crappy record". He only started to show signs of consistency near the end of the month.
"If only you don't just use the TLPD for monthly totals, you'd see how consistent Stork is" Yes, thank you for generalizing something untrue about me, I appreciate it, good argument. I'll cite an example, vs Kwanro in the winner's league, he walks his shuttle into hydras, that's not consistency. See? I do watch his games. Obviously, I only used that argument to show that he is not "VERY consistent" and that I do watch his games.
On March 07 2009 12:26 Avidkeystamper wrote: Yes, I have seen his games, and I don't see how you could say Stork is "VERY consistent". He might have been, and is starting to be again. Anyways, I was describing his performance last month, not right now. And by consistent, I mean consistently good, because that doesn't give an "overall crappy record". He only started to show signs of consistency near the end of the month.
"If only you don't just use the TLPD for monthly totals, you'd see how consistent Stork is" Yes, thank you for generalizing something untrue about me, I appreciate it, good argument. I'll cite an example, vs Kwanro in the winner's league, he walks his shuttle into hydras, that's not consistency. See? I do watch his games. Obviously, I only used that argument to show that he is not "VERY consistent" and that I do watch his games.
You watch all his games and you can't tell the difference between SL Stork with preparation and 2nd game of WL where he has no preparation!? I really find that hard to believe.
On March 07 2009 10:48 Avidkeystamper wrote: Yes, obviously his placement is legit, but he is too inconsistent right now, but he has started to show signs of improvement. FYI, you were talking about his gameplay, I don't see how I sidetracked it by showing how he's still pretty inconsistent, even in PvZ.
Stork's not inconsistent. In fact, you can say he's VERY consistent in his play. If only you don't just use the TLPD for monthly totals, you'd see how consistent Stork is. And why he continues to advance in the starleagues despite a crappy record overall.
i'm assuming you mean lately he's had a crappy record? b/c stork has one of the best records for someone over 100 games. and this is just how stork plays. he plays extremely well during individual league tournaments (pre-finals), then chokes at the finals, slumps a bit, then rebounds by the time the next msl / osl comes around. i think this is mostly because stork is a mind player. yeah, he has great macro, but that's not his strength. he plays best when he has alot of practice time, and time to develop a strategy. stork is probably one of the very best b0x players in starcraft now. no, stork has never had a great pvz. but it really shouldn't surprise anyone that stork won a game when he's had this much preparation.
On March 07 2009 12:26 Avidkeystamper wrote: Yes, I have seen his games, and I don't see how you could say Stork is "VERY consistent". He might have been, and is starting to be again. Anyways, I was describing his performance last month, not right now. And by consistent, I mean consistently good, because that doesn't give an "overall crappy record". He only started to show signs of consistency near the end of the month.
"If only you don't just use the TLPD for monthly totals, you'd see how consistent Stork is" Yes, thank you for generalizing something untrue about me, I appreciate it, good argument. I'll cite an example, vs Kwanro in the winner's league, he walks his shuttle into hydras, that's not consistency. See? I do watch his games. Obviously, I only used that argument to show that he is not "VERY consistent" and that I do watch his games.
You watch all his games and you can't tell the difference between SL Stork with preparation and 2nd game of WL where he has no preparation!? I really find that hard to believe.
I know Stork plays differently in the individual leagues than WL. I addressed that a page back, but unfortunately WL games are games as well, and he prepared for Kwanro for his series anyways. You can't say he plays consistently and only take into account his SL games where he plays consistently. If he's bombing WL, which he is, then that is not consistency.
On March 07 2009 10:48 Avidkeystamper wrote: Yes, obviously his placement is legit, but he is too inconsistent right now, but he has started to show signs of improvement. FYI, you were talking about his gameplay, I don't see how I sidetracked it by showing how he's still pretty inconsistent, even in PvZ.
Stork's not inconsistent. In fact, you can say he's VERY consistent in his play. If only you don't just use the TLPD for monthly totals, you'd see how consistent Stork is. And why he continues to advance in the starleagues despite a crappy record overall.
i'm assuming you mean lately he's had a crappy record? b/c stork has one of the best records for someone over 100 games. and this is just how stork plays. he plays extremely well during individual league tournaments (pre-finals), then chokes at the finals, slumps a bit, then rebounds by the time the next msl / osl comes around. i think this is mostly because stork is a mind player. yeah, he has great macro, but that's not his strength. he plays best when he has alot of practice time, and time to develop a strategy. stork is probably one of the very best b0x players in starcraft now. no, stork has never had a great pvz. but it really shouldn't surprise anyone that stork won a game when he's had this much preparation.
Past 100 games doesn't really matter when it comes to the PR. I was referring to his play following his OSL win, which had been mediocre at best.
On March 07 2009 12:26 Avidkeystamper wrote: Yes, I have seen his games, and I don't see how you could say Stork is "VERY consistent". He might have been, and is starting to be again. Anyways, I was describing his performance last month, not right now. And by consistent, I mean consistently good, because that doesn't give an "overall crappy record". He only started to show signs of consistency near the end of the month.
"If only you don't just use the TLPD for monthly totals, you'd see how consistent Stork is" Yes, thank you for generalizing something untrue about me, I appreciate it, good argument. I'll cite an example, vs Kwanro in the winner's league, he walks his shuttle into hydras, that's not consistency. See? I do watch his games. Obviously, I only used that argument to show that he is not "VERY consistent" and that I do watch his games.
You watch all his games and you can't tell the difference between SL Stork with preparation and 2nd game of WL where he has no preparation!? I really find that hard to believe.
I know Stork plays differently in the individual leagues than WL. I addressed that a page back, but unfortunately WL games are games as well, and he prepared for Kwanro for his series anyways. You can't say he plays consistently and only take into account his SL games where he plays consistently. If he's bombing WL, which he is, then that is not consistency.
You don't see how he's consistent in the WL? Look, I can't talk much about Jaedong like you because I don't watch Oz games much. But by the same token, you shouldn't just assume things about Stork when you obviously don't know about his play or usage by Khan.
Stork is almost always used by Khan as the PvT sniper. He tends to win a lot of these, because his PvT is the ONLY matchup he does not have to prepare for. Hence, he consistently wins his PvTs in the WL. The opposing team, though, will almost always snipe Stork with a zerg next. And this is where his lack of PvZ game sense shows. And he consistently loses that game.
So yes, Stork is very consistent in his play, both in his wins and losses.
I was judging consistency on how well he played last season to early this season to right now, and that's changed. So he's inconsistent in that respect. So there's really nothing to talk abou there, then, since we're judging using different criterias.
Light...? He exited from the individual leagues *so early*. How can he be on the power ranking when all he has to worry about is the WL? Give his spot to zero. Put light in the CBNC.
But yeah, Bisu's definitely number one, especially + Show Spoiler +
On March 07 2009 18:06 latent wrote: Light...? He exited from the individual leagues *so early*. How can he be on the power ranking when all he has to worry about is the WL? Give his spot to zero. Put light in the CBNC.
But yeah, Bisu's definitely number one, especially + Show Spoiler +
after his all-kill of WeMade Fox
With this logic Flash shouldn't be on the PR either. Light was exited from the MSL in a really dumb fashion,that's true,but that was two months ago,and from the OSL Bisu and JD booted him,and you just can't honestly say that anybody outside of the PR would have qualified against JD or Bisu. Although I agree that maybe Hwasin should be higher,but Light has every rights to be on the PR.
On March 07 2009 15:16 Avidkeystamper wrote: I was judging consistency on how well he played last season to early this season to right now, and that's changed. So he's inconsistent in that respect. So there's really nothing to talk abou there, then, since we're judging using different criterias.
What are you talking about? Stork's been doing this shit for the entire season. He 2-0s his MSL group. 2-1 Ro8. He went 3-1 in OSL tiebreakers to get out of his OSL group. All the while, piling up 1-1s or 0-1s in WL play.
Stork has proven again and again how much he relies on practice to win games. It's been the same his entire fucking career. And a big reason why I'm a fan of him. It's so great to see him abuse maps and opening BOs in every game to get the max advantage.
top5 is clear yes proleague bias is too heavy though zero is playing pretty well in PL and he's in the MSL semis what else he should do to enter top10? maybe play a guitar or a violin?
On March 07 2009 22:19 amorpheus wrote: top5 is clear yes proleague bias is too heavy though zero is playing pretty well in PL and he's in the MSL semis what else he should do to enter top10? maybe play a guitar or a violin?
ZvP or ZvT will do ... You don't get in the PR because you've got good ZvZ . Zero hasn't been doing that great in proleague infact his last 2 games are losses .
Hiya is my favorite player, and a true TvP giant, but if he's going to get out of "close but no diarrhea" land, he's going to have to be more consistent in the other two matchups. 1 great matchup out of 3 does not a top ten player make.
At least people don't really poke fun at his looks anymore.
On March 07 2009 22:19 amorpheus wrote: top5 is clear yes proleague bias is too heavy though zero is playing pretty well in PL and he's in the MSL semis what else he should do to enter top10? maybe play a guitar or a violin?
ZvP or ZvT will do ... You don't get in the PR because you've got good ZvZ . Zero hasn't been doing that great in proleague infact his last 2 games are losses .
On March 07 2009 22:19 amorpheus wrote: top5 is clear yes proleague bias is too heavy though zero is playing pretty well in PL and he's in the MSL semis what else he should do to enter top10? maybe play a guitar or a violin?
ZvP or ZvT will do ... You don't get in the PR because you've got good ZvZ . Zero hasn't been doing that great in proleague infact his last 2 games are losses .
Are you saying ZerO doesn't have good ZvT?
As much as I love Zer0, his ZvT is kinda shaky. Sometimes it is ridiculously awesome, and sometimes it is more bleh.
In any case, no good ZvT player should loose to Justin... ever.
Is fucking unstoppable. He just all-killed MBC last night. Beat Nada and Mind with ease. His PvT is godmode too. Bisu is taking over the world...only player able to resist him is probably Jaedong, and thats 50:50. Bisu is a clear favorite against anyone right now wow.
The end of Bisu vs RorO was ridiculous. He launched a huge attack at RorO's 3oclock expo/killed RorO's army, zealot dropped 12oclock expo (killed every drone), storm dropped RorO's main (killed every drone, then merged the archon), and expanded to a new expo, all at the same time. The Observer/Camera-guy couldn't even keep up with everything that was happening.
The end of Bisu vs RorO was ridiculous. He launched a huge attack at RorO's 3oclock expo/killed RorO's army, zealot dropped 12oclock expo (killed every drone), storm dropped RorO's main (killed every drone, then merged the archon), and expanded to a new expo, all at the same time. The Observer/Camera-guy couldn't even keep up with everything that was happening.
Yeah. I agree. Whoever ever doubts Bisu's PvZ again will be crucified and burned on the stake
I think one of the biggest reasons Bisu went into a slump before (boy was it a long time ago...a year now?) was because he was traded to another team. He seems to be emotionally sensitive and values the relationships he has with his teammates. The team switch seemed to be hard on his psyche. But now that he's back I don't think he's ever going away. I think Starcraft has reached its highest level, and from here on Bisu will keep on piling up the awards.
Then again, everyone thought the same of basketball, hockey, and even golf. Then they were given Jordan, Gretzky/Lemieux, and Tiger.
On March 08 2009 17:44 latent wrote: I think one of the biggest reasons Bisu went into a slump before (boy was it a long time ago...a year now?) was because he was traded to another team. He seems to be emotionally sensitive and values the relationships he has with his teammates. The team switch seemed to be hard on his psyche. But now that he's back I don't think he's ever going away. I think Starcraft has reached its highest level, and from here on Bisu will keep on piling up the awards.
Then again, everyone thought the same of basketball, hockey, and even golf. Then they were given Jordan, Gretzky/Lemieux, and Tiger.
actually, i think it was mainly due to him hurting his wrist. i think he cut his wrist when he fell in the shower? or was that oov? sc players get hurt in the strangest ways. i remember when forgg fell down the stairs and had to miss playing in the all-stars match and was replaced by lomo. lol
On March 08 2009 17:58 brjdrb wrote: actually, i think it was mainly due to him hurting his wrist. i think he cut his wrist when he fell in the shower? or was that oov?
yeah, that was oov. Bisu first lost to Mind in MSL final, then got 0-2 by JD and Yarnc in an all-zerg group he made himself, then got traded away, then got a flu and got 3-0ed by Stork in OSL semis. I think all these contributed to him losing "it".
On March 08 2009 17:44 latent wrote: I think one of the biggest reasons Bisu went into a slump before (boy was it a long time ago...a year now?) was because he was traded to another team. He seems to be emotionally sensitive and values the relationships he has with his teammates. The team switch seemed to be hard on his psyche. But now that he's back I don't think he's ever going away. I think Starcraft has reached its highest level, and from here on Bisu will keep on piling up the awards.
Then again, everyone thought the same of basketball, hockey, and even golf. Then they were given Jordan, Gretzky/Lemieux, and Tiger.
actually, i think it was mainly due to him hurting his wrist. i think he cut his wrist when he fell in the shower? or was that oov? sc players get hurt in the strangest ways. i remember when forgg fell down the stairs and had to miss playing in the all-stars match and was replaced by lomo. lol
When he hurt his wrist his slump have already begun.
Yeah I remember quite well, he hurt his wrist during an OSL group stage well after he had begun slumping. He was up against Mind, BackHo, and Much. After he beat Mind I thought he had a good chance to qualify, then he hurt his wrist and proceeded to lose both of the next games. So, in a way, Backho's injury in Batoo is just paying Bisu back for an OSL slot
omg, what i've just read, 500+ AVERAGE APM for by.hero!! I thought he only had Bisu's number, and that's all, after i saw his ZvT, i said the kid has sg in himself, but OMG 538 average APM is insanely much, we might see him rise the ranks very soon
This has been the best for a long time, gj!! Can't wait to see the CBNC.
@Geo: I don't believe anyone has >500 apm I think around 400 is the highest ever reached, anything above 300 for Z or P and above 350 for T is very very rare. Also apm is not the best indicator for skill. Some players were great though they had relatively low apm (Savior around 230-250, Nal_rA around 200-250). edit: Could you tell me were you read this?
On March 09 2009 04:51 Polar_Bear wrote: This has been the best for a long time, gj!! Can't wait to see the CBNC.
@Geo: I don't believe anyone has >500 apm I think around 400 is the highest ever reached, anything above 300 for Z or P and above 350 for T is very very rare. Also apm is not the best indicator for skill. Some players were great though they had relatively low apm (Savior around 230-250, Nal_rA around 200-250). edit: Could you tell me were you read this?
Well, from what I've heard there are some players with well over 400 APM, like Jaedong for example. These players are not necessarily great, but they usually have great micro and can do things other people can't. Newer players have an overall higher APM than veterans like sAviOr, Boxer, Nal_Ra. That's why the game has become so much more mechanical. Nowadays it is much harder to get away with low APM than a few years ago, when timing and strategy were not as developed as they are now.
On March 09 2009 03:39 Geo.Rion wrote: omg, what i've just read, 500+ AVERAGE APM for by.hero!! I thought he only had Bisu's number, and that's all, after i saw his ZvT, i said the kid has sg in himself, but OMG 538 average APM is insanely much, we might see him rise the ranks very soon
APM isn't everything, just because he can spam a bit faster and more consistently than anyone else doesn't mean anything really.
Man, this was a great rank, but there really should be a cbnc. Maybe let Mani or someone do it? If not, this is the second month we got promised a cbnc and it wasn't delivered.
CNBC is BackHo. Now that he can't play, he's been reading strategy guides, so when he comes back those great mechanics will finally be backing up sensible strategies. Starcraft world, get ready to receive your next bonjwa.
On March 09 2009 08:23 Signet wrote: CNBC is BackHo. Now that he can't play, he's been reading strategy guides, so when he comes back those great mechanics will finally be backing up sensible strategies. Starcraft world, get ready to receive your next bonjwa.
The end of Bisu vs RorO was ridiculous. He launched a huge attack at RorO's 3oclock expo/killed RorO's army, zealot dropped 12oclock expo (killed every drone), storm dropped RorO's main (killed every drone, then merged the archon), and expanded to a new expo, all at the same time. The Observer/Camera-guy couldn't even keep up with everything that was happening.
someone should make a new bisu highlight movie with that included in it
immediatly followed by the ramp fiasco...lol, jk jk
in fact, i think a single highlight vid featuring the very best of Bisu, Jaedong, and Flash would be awesome. A showcase of the best current players of each race proving their dominance in one vid.
On March 09 2009 04:51 Polar_Bear wrote: This has been the best for a long time, gj!! Can't wait to see the CBNC.
@Geo: I don't believe anyone has >500 apm I think around 400 is the highest ever reached, anything above 300 for Z or P and above 350 for T is very very rare. Also apm is not the best indicator for skill. Some players were great though they had relatively low apm (Savior around 230-250, Nal_rA around 200-250). edit: Could you tell me were you read this?
i dont know if the pictures loads for you, they did for me last time, but now they dont. There you can see statistics of by.hero vs Leta, Hwasin, Fantasy and i dont know who more, including highest/average/lowest APM and whatnot, i cant read Korean
ANd btw Flash, Jaedong are above 400, Bisu is around 400 too, and strangely enough they are the best represantive of thier races. Is true that players with significantly less APM put up results, well at least in the recent history of progaming (Stork most recently) but as Stork claims, it's more and more about speed nowadays
On March 09 2009 03:39 Geo.Rion wrote: omg, what i've just read, 500+ AVERAGE APM for by.hero!! I thought he only had Bisu's number, and that's all, after i saw his ZvT, i said the kid has sg in himself, but OMG 538 average APM is insanely much, we might see him rise the ranks very soon
APM isn't everything, just because he can spam a bit faster and more consistently than anyone else doesn't mean anything really.
I dont know about that. ppl on iccup spam like crazy taht's true, but korean progamers are known for having useful APM. well, they spam at the start too, but as they claim thats for warmup/ maintaining speed. I see no reason for them to spam. This might be an exception, but i dont see why. As is stated befor in my previous post, those who have high apm are ruling the scene. Only excxeption i can think of is Stork, who's usually 300 or less. I dont know about Light, Leta and Luxury but the others from the top10 PR are known for especially high APM. And they might have high apm too, i dont say they dont, i just dont know about them.
On March 09 2009 04:51 Polar_Bear wrote: This has been the best for a long time, gj!! Can't wait to see the CBNC.
@Geo: I don't believe anyone has >500 apm I think around 400 is the highest ever reached, anything above 300 for Z or P and above 350 for T is very very rare. Also apm is not the best indicator for skill. Some players were great though they had relatively low apm (Savior around 230-250, Nal_rA around 200-250). edit: Could you tell me were you read this?
i dont know if the pictures loads for you, they did for me last time, but now they dont. There you can see statistics of by.hero vs Leta, Hwasin, Fantasy and i dont know who more, including highest/average/lowest APM and whatnot, i cant read Korean
ANd btw Flash, Jaedong are above 400, Bisu is around 400 too, and strangely enough they are the best represantive of thier races. Is true that players with significantly less APM put up results, well at least in the recent history of progaming (Stork most recently) but as Stork claims, it's more and more about speed nowadays
Nope. Flash has around 280-320, his apm is not over 400. Nada has above 400 apm but flash uses a macromanagement style that requires less apm, Stork has around 280 and Bisu is around 370-400 since he uses a harass intensive style and Jaedong has above 400.
On March 09 2009 04:51 Polar_Bear wrote: This has been the best for a long time, gj!! Can't wait to see the CBNC.
@Geo: I don't believe anyone has >500 apm I think around 400 is the highest ever reached, anything above 300 for Z or P and above 350 for T is very very rare. Also apm is not the best indicator for skill. Some players were great though they had relatively low apm (Savior around 230-250, Nal_rA around 200-250). edit: Could you tell me were you read this?
i dont know if the pictures loads for you, they did for me last time, but now they dont. There you can see statistics of by.hero vs Leta, Hwasin, Fantasy and i dont know who more, including highest/average/lowest APM and whatnot, i cant read Korean
ANd btw Flash, Jaedong are above 400, Bisu is around 400 too, and strangely enough they are the best represantive of thier races. Is true that players with significantly less APM put up results, well at least in the recent history of progaming (Stork most recently) but as Stork claims, it's more and more about speed nowadays
Nope. Flash has around 280-320, his apm is not over 400. Nada has above 400 apm but flash uses a macromanagement style that requires less apm, Stork has around 280 and Bisu is around 370-400 since he uses a harass intensive style and Jaedong has above 400.
from where did you get these statistics? About stork, jaedong and bisu are what i just said, but i'm quite sure i saw some stats where Flash had 400+. Maybe that was TvZ and his other Mus are slower or idk. And Nada is really that fast? i didnt know that.
On March 09 2009 04:51 Polar_Bear wrote: This has been the best for a long time, gj!! Can't wait to see the CBNC.
@Geo: I don't believe anyone has >500 apm I think around 400 is the highest ever reached, anything above 300 for Z or P and above 350 for T is very very rare. Also apm is not the best indicator for skill. Some players were great though they had relatively low apm (Savior around 230-250, Nal_rA around 200-250). edit: Could you tell me were you read this?
i dont know if the pictures loads for you, they did for me last time, but now they dont. There you can see statistics of by.hero vs Leta, Hwasin, Fantasy and i dont know who more, including highest/average/lowest APM and whatnot, i cant read Korean
ANd btw Flash, Jaedong are above 400, Bisu is around 400 too, and strangely enough they are the best represantive of thier races. Is true that players with significantly less APM put up results, well at least in the recent history of progaming (Stork most recently) but as Stork claims, it's more and more about speed nowadays
Nope. Flash has around 280-320, his apm is not over 400. Nada has above 400 apm but flash uses a macromanagement style that requires less apm, Stork has around 280 and Bisu is around 370-400 since he uses a harass intensive style and Jaedong has above 400.
from where did you get these statistics? About stork, jaedong and bisu are what i just said, but i'm quite sure i saw some stats where Flash had 400+. And Nada is really that fast? i didnt know that. Maybe that was TvZ and his other Mus are slower or idk
nada has always been known for his extremely fast hands
On March 09 2009 04:51 Polar_Bear wrote: This has been the best for a long time, gj!! Can't wait to see the CBNC.
@Geo: I don't believe anyone has >500 apm I think around 400 is the highest ever reached, anything above 300 for Z or P and above 350 for T is very very rare. Also apm is not the best indicator for skill. Some players were great though they had relatively low apm (Savior around 230-250, Nal_rA around 200-250). edit: Could you tell me were you read this?
i dont know if the pictures loads for you, they did for me last time, but now they dont. There you can see statistics of by.hero vs Leta, Hwasin, Fantasy and i dont know who more, including highest/average/lowest APM and whatnot, i cant read Korean
ANd btw Flash, Jaedong are above 400, Bisu is around 400 too, and strangely enough they are the best represantive of thier races. Is true that players with significantly less APM put up results, well at least in the recent history of progaming (Stork most recently) but as Stork claims, it's more and more about speed nowadays
Nope. Flash has around 280-320, his apm is not over 400. Nada has above 400 apm but flash uses a macromanagement style that requires less apm, Stork has around 280 and Bisu is around 370-400 since he uses a harass intensive style and Jaedong has above 400.
from where did you get these statistics? About stork, jaedong and bisu are what i just said, but i'm quite sure i saw some stats where Flash had 400+. And Nada is really that fast? i didnt know that. Maybe that was TvZ and his other Mus are slower or idk
nada has always been known for his extremely fast hands
Umm...Bisu's APM is NOT 370-400. He's protoss. Protoss generally have low APM. I remember watching a b.net attack episode where they talked about his low APM. He actually has a relatively low APM even for a Protoss user. He's in the lower 200s. He tried to maximize his APM on a particular program without worrying about microing well, and barely broke 300. Part of what makes him so great is his incredible game sense. You could clearly see it in his game vs. Nada, where he just 'maphacked' and perfectly predicted when and where Nada would send a dropship full of vultures, without ever spotting a starport.
One of the things about zerg players is how difficult it is to control so many units with a 12 unit per group count. Their lives will become much easier with SC2.
On March 10 2009 08:42 latent wrote: Umm...Bisu's APM is NOT 370-400. He's protoss. Protoss generally have low APM. I remember watching a b.net attack episode where they talked about his low APM. He actually has a relatively low APM even for a Protoss user. He's in the lower 200s. He tried to maximize his APM on a particular program without worrying about microing well, and barely broke 300. Part of what makes him so great is his incredible game sense. You could clearly see it in his game vs. Nada, where he just 'maphacked' and perfectly predicted when and where Nada would send a dropship full of vultures, without ever spotting a starport.
One of the things about zerg players is how difficult it is to control so many units with a 12 unit per group count. Their lives will become much easier with SC2.
You did read that translated Stork interview before posting, did you?
On March 10 2009 08:42 latent wrote: Umm...Bisu's APM is NOT 370-400. He's protoss. Protoss generally have low APM. I remember watching a b.net attack episode where they talked about his low APM. He actually has a relatively low APM even for a Protoss user. He's in the lower 200s. He tried to maximize his APM on a particular program without worrying about microing well, and barely broke 300. Part of what makes him so great is his incredible game sense. You could clearly see it in his game vs. Nada, where he just 'maphacked' and perfectly predicted when and where Nada would send a dropship full of vultures, without ever spotting a starport.
One of the things about zerg players is how difficult it is to control so many units with a 12 unit per group count. Their lives will become much easier with SC2.
You did read that translated Stork interview before posting, did you?
Even before, I was pretty certain that everyone knew Bisu had ridiculously fast APM for a protoss user. I think he and Jangbi are both up there.
Savior and Stork are notorious for their low APMs though. You can certainly see that in their playstyles.
On March 10 2009 08:42 latent wrote: Umm...Bisu's APM is NOT 370-400. He's protoss. Protoss generally have low APM. I remember watching a b.net attack episode where they talked about his low APM. He actually has a relatively low APM even for a Protoss user. He's in the lower 200s. He tried to maximize his APM on a particular program without worrying about microing well, and barely broke 300. Part of what makes him so great is his incredible game sense. You could clearly see it in his game vs. Nada, where he just 'maphacked' and perfectly predicted when and where Nada would send a dropship full of vultures, without ever spotting a starport.
One of the things about zerg players is how difficult it is to control so many units with a 12 unit per group count. Their lives will become much easier with SC2.
There are many replays of Bisu, and they show that he indeed does have apm near 400.
For whatever reason, I remember Bisu's APM being around 300-320 when he beat savior, but it's tremendously improved. After the OSL game, his was shown to be around 370-380 (don't recall precisely). After his injury before (or at the beginning) of summer, I think he even said in an interview that it sunk as low as 270-280 per game. Clearly he's been able to recover quite well.
On March 10 2009 08:42 latent wrote: Umm...Bisu's APM is NOT 370-400. He's protoss. Protoss generally have low APM. I remember watching a b.net attack episode where they talked about his low APM. He actually has a relatively low APM even for a Protoss user. He's in the lower 200s. He tried to maximize his APM on a particular program without worrying about microing well, and barely broke 300. Part of what makes him so great is his incredible game sense. You could clearly see it in his game vs. Nada, where he just 'maphacked' and perfectly predicted when and where Nada would send a dropship full of vultures, without ever spotting a starport.
One of the things about zerg players is how difficult it is to control so many units with a 12 unit per group count. Their lives will become much easier with SC2.
Yeah dude you don't know what you're talking about.
Read the interviews and watch some more games. They have all said Bisu is one of the high APM tosses...
On March 10 2009 09:17 LucasWoJ wrote: For whatever reason, I remember Bisu's APM being around 300-320 when he beat savior, but it's tremendously improved. After the OSL game, his was shown to be around 370-380 (don't recall precisely). After his injury before (or at the beginning) of summer, I think he even said in an interview that it sunk as low as 270-280 per game. Clearly he's been able to recover quite well.
Nice insight there if that's true. His wrist DEFINITELY affected his playing... but his slump did seem to start before his wrist injury.
On March 10 2009 08:42 latent wrote: Umm...Bisu's APM is NOT 370-400. He's protoss. Protoss generally have low APM. I remember watching a b.net attack episode where they talked about his low APM. He actually has a relatively low APM even for a Protoss user. He's in the lower 200s. He tried to maximize his APM on a particular program without worrying about microing well, and barely broke 300. Part of what makes him so great is his incredible game sense. You could clearly see it in his game vs. Nada, where he just 'maphacked' and perfectly predicted when and where Nada would send a dropship full of vultures, without ever spotting a starport.
One of the things about zerg players is how difficult it is to control so many units with a 12 unit per group count. Their lives will become much easier with SC2.
Please... Please stop... I can't read... Any more... T_T
I have a great idea. Instead of doing a subjective power rank, lets just collect top players replays and do a rank based on APM! It would be so much more accurate!
On March 10 2009 08:42 latent wrote: Umm...Bisu's APM is NOT 370-400. He's protoss. Protoss generally have low APM. I remember watching a b.net attack episode where they talked about his low APM. He actually has a relatively low APM even for a Protoss user. He's in the lower 200s. He tried to maximize his APM on a particular program without worrying about microing well, and barely broke 300. Part of what makes him so great is his incredible game sense. You could clearly see it in his game vs. Nada, where he just 'maphacked' and perfectly predicted when and where Nada would send a dropship full of vultures, without ever spotting a starport.
One of the things about zerg players is how difficult it is to control so many units with a 12 unit per group count. Their lives will become much easier with SC2.
Please... Please stop... I can't read... Any more... T_T
So... terrible...
LOL, yeah. I remember they showed stats after a Bisu vs Stork game. I think it was in the osl. Bisu had 428 APM and Stork had 280, haha.
Anyway, the only good player I know with APM anywhere near the low 200s was Savior, but he's not really good anymore.
EDIT: Basically, saying Bisu has really low APM, or every protoss has low APM is just ridiculous, and I don't know how one can some up with these ideas.
latent on bnet attack an announcer commented on bisu's apm and said something like it was the fastest he's ever seen, >400, but now when he plays against terran it seems lower (this was right after he losta gainst luxury in the osl). i think bisu said something about maximizing the value of each action which is why it was lower, and that he's always looking to improve this aspect
too much post about apm indeed, my point was that it seems that we might have a rising zerg for real this time (not like, magma, thezerg and all those hyped zergs)
On March 10 2009 20:12 Geo.Rion wrote: too much post about apm indeed, my point was that it seems that we might have a rising zerg for real this time (not like, magma, thezerg and all those hyped zergs)
I think your point got lost in all that clutter, but are you talking about by.hero?
I'm still waiting for true breakout moments for Effort, Great, and Calm.
On March 10 2009 20:12 Geo.Rion wrote: too much post about apm indeed, my point was that it seems that we might have a rising zerg for real this time (not like, magma, thezerg and all those hyped zergs)
I think your point got lost in all that clutter, but are you talking about by.hero?
I'm still waiting for true breakout moments for Effort, Great, and Calm.
yep, i'm talking about by.hero. And i assumed he gonna be great based on his recent OSL games, and the interview with Khan players, which i linked
I'm not sure about by.hero. Fantasy made it to the finals last season and haven't done too much since then. And by.hero isn't even a big factor in STX's WL. Although I guess it's to be expected given their deep lineup.
Oh, and it's not exactly a big deal that Stork would prefer Hwasin over him. Stork's confidence towards his PvT vs PvZ is so wide that he just might fear Hyuk more than Flash.
On March 10 2009 23:07 baubo wrote: I'm not sure about by.hero. Fantasy made it to the finals last season and haven't done too much since then. And by.hero isn't even a big factor in STX's WL. Although I guess it's to be expected given their deep lineup.
Oh, and it's not exactly a big deal that Stork would prefer Hwasin over him. Stork's confidence towards his PvT vs PvZ is so wide that he just might fear Hyuk more than Flash.
i m not looking forward for by.hero beacause Stork fears him but beacause Stork said that APM means more and more, and by.hero got some insanely high one. And he's 3-0 right now against Bisu, the best protoss, and beat terrans like Leta, Hwasin, Fantasy... In WL he isnt performint well at all, but he didnt really had the chanse to do so either. He was sent out twice i think. And i liek the guy, he's an adorable little kid, liek a teddy bear or idk
So here's a question for PR potential next month that I think is interesting because the situation doesn't happen to often. (A star player out of both SL in a PL/WL playoff for their team)
What does Flash have to do in the WL playoffs to stay in the top tier for next month? Now that he is out of both leagues, what are you expectations for KTF v SKT (or KTF v Lecaf/CJ)? Now only practicing for WL, does Flash have to carry KTF to the championship in order to prove his ability? Does the WL Final/Playoff spot even mean anything to you, or are you already putting Flash off your radar until the next season of individual leagues starts?
Personally, I think if Flash made some kind of miracle team carry into 1st place for the WL and his run was of high quality, that he should hit number one on the PR (assuming Bisu or Jaedong don't do anything truly amazing in the OSL.) A good run will keep him even for me, and a crash and burn would put him around number 8 on the rank.
In my mind Flash could show he's a champion by taking KTF to the top (KTF in 1st would show Flash's ability... because KTF isn't ever first in anything) and although I bet he won't, I think it's worth discussion ahead of time now that he is out of both leagues.
If he carries his team, I don't think he should fall off the radar, or lose any ground in the Power Rank. But at the same time, I don't think there will be any case made for him to be #1 or #2, especially considering that the OSL and MSL semifinals are getting close (and therefore OSL and MSL finals).
he's definitely not off the radar. yes, individual league games are the most important, but so is the quality of the games played. if flash shows his regular godly play, then it doesn't really matter if he's doing it in the osl or the WL playoffs (though those are relatively important as well, for the teams at least). i agree that he probably won't be in the top 4, but there is no way that he'll drop off the PR, or even go below 8 imo. unless of course he doesn't play well
I'm one of the biggest Stork fans and I can't disagree with Fakesteve's analysis of him. The thing about Stork is that just when you think he's going to roll over everyone, he goes into the crapper. And just when you're about to write him off, he pulls wins out of his ass.
Because Stork relies so much on preparation, his game quality fluctuates so heavily you sometimes wonder if it's a split personality in there.
On March 11 2009 09:38 Vasoline73 wrote: So here's a question for PR potential next month that I think is interesting because the situation doesn't happen to often. (A star player out of both SL in a PL/WL playoff for their team)
What does Flash have to do in the WL playoffs to stay in the top tier for next month? Now that he is out of both leagues, what are you expectations for KTF v SKT (or KTF v Lecaf/CJ)? Now only practicing for WL, does Flash have to carry KTF to the championship in order to prove his ability? Does the WL Final/Playoff spot even mean anything to you, or are you already putting Flash off your radar until the next season of individual leagues starts?
Personally, I think if Flash made some kind of miracle team carry into 1st place for the WL and his run was of high quality, that he should hit number one on the PR (assuming Bisu or Jaedong don't do anything truly amazing in the OSL.) A good run will keep him even for me, and a crash and burn would put him around number 8 on the rank.
In my mind Flash could show he's a champion by taking KTF to the top (KTF in 1st would show Flash's ability... because KTF isn't ever first in anything) and although I bet he won't, I think it's worth discussion ahead of time now that he is out of both leagues.
Assert domination over lesser players in the WL playoffs. That will preserve Flash's hide. He's already looking better again, he played great against Much, but with the benefit of practicing nothing but PvT Andromeda for a week, Much's build order was vastly superior. He defended very patiently too, really well played by him.
On March 04 2009 23:06 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: free: free still sucks, get used to it.
i demand at least as many flames for this as i got
LOL. Good cbnc Steve, everything is pretty much covered. This weeks OSL and MSL games will definitly have a huge impact on next months rank. Combined with WL playoffs, this is gonna be a great month of starcraft.
On March 11 2009 15:56 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: CBNC is up, buuuuuusy week
What about Nada ? He went 2 - 3 against the strongest PvTer ever , well i don't know if that is enough for CBNC .
You want the real reason Sea is my favourite player rather than Nada?
He's as big a Nada fan as I am
Still, besides that series Nada has been losing a ton of games, and it should be pretty obvious there's more he needs to do to be on the PR. That makes it self-explanatory, no need for a CBNC entry.
On March 11 2009 21:58 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: if free sucks, how come he's mentionned in the CNBC ?
You must be new to this whole power rank thing... Most of the times when FakeSteve says someone sucks he means he's playing under his potential or something along those lines. Or if he's not satisfied with a player but the results leave him no choice but to put him in the PR/CBNC. I remember Stork being around rank 3 with comments like "Goddamnit Stork... you suck!"
no shit i know what he means but why would FS rank free close to the top 10 (CNBC) if he isnt playing like he's supposed to ? In that case free should not be in CNBC. He's struggling a lot and does not deserve any mention in my opinion, i'm not defending free at all but w/e.
And yeah this is the first time i read a power-ranking, i'm new to this whole thing.
I dont want to defend one ass, but don't be a bigger ass.
I remember you, funny you say that one person is being an ass, but you invite unnecessary comments. The point is you post trollish comments as well. What a flamer, kudos.
I dont want to defend one ass, but don't be a bigger ass.
I remember you, funny you say that one person is being an ass, but you invite unnecessary comments. The point is you post trollish comments as well. What a flamer, kudos.
Hahaha are you that old bitter guy from california? How are you not banned yet? What's really funny (read: not) is a guy called fireguyx talking about others flaming.
I'm not going to try and pretend that there isn't a slight trolling nature to some of my posts, but I'd like to think there is some semblence of intelligence in them as well.
But anyway, in an attempt to steer this discussion somewhat back to the Power Rank, + Show Spoiler +
lol @ stork's cannon rush in game 2 of the osl semi's. Is he that insecure against Jaedong even one game up?
EDIT: I just noticed I made a post about defending a guy's ass and I haven't laughed about it yet.
I dont want to defend one ass, but don't be a bigger ass.
I remember you, funny you say that one person is being an ass, but you invite unnecessary comments. The point is you post trollish comments as well. What a flamer, kudos.
Hahaha are you that old bitter guy from california? How are you not banned yet? What's really funny (read: not) is a guy called fireguyx talking about others flaming.
I'm not going to try and pretend that there isn't a slight trolling nature to some of my posts, but I'd like to think there is some semblence of intelligence in them as well.
But anyway, in an attempt to steer this discussion somewhat back to the Power Rank, + Show Spoiler +
lol @ stork's cannon rush in game 2 of the osl semi's. Is he that insecure against Jaedong even one game up?
EDIT: I just noticed I made a post about defending a guy's ass and I haven't laughed about it yet.
Why do you continue to assume I'm old? Check my profile. And you obviously don't post intelligently, more like trollish
Read Stork's post OSL quarterfinals game one interview - he was going to give up the series if he lost the first game because the third map was Tears of the Moon. That is probably why he cheeses against Jaedong even up 1-0 - he just didn't want to risk playing on that map.
On March 04 2009 23:06 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Hiya: Hiya is cool as hell, but aggressive TvP builds against robotic Protoss morons in WL does not a PR placement make. Get into a league, win some more games against people who aren't complete idiots, maybe we'll see you in a month or two.
Hiya >>> Stork, JangBi, free, Kal, Best in their last matches. I wouldn't call them robotic morons, nor complete idiots.
I don't question Hiya's placement, just this comment...
Read Stork's post OSL quarterfinals game one interview - he was going to give up the series if he lost the first game because the third map was Tears of the Moon. That is probably why he cheeses against Jaedong even up 1-0 - he just didn't want to risk playing on that map.
That just seemed really stupid. He should have just played in a way that gave him the best chance to win on chupung, and then cheesed in game 3.
Read Stork's post OSL quarterfinals game one interview - he was going to give up the series if he lost the first game because the third map was Tears of the Moon. That is probably why he cheeses against Jaedong even up 1-0 - he just didn't want to risk playing on that map.
That just seemed really stupid. He should have just played in a way that gave him the best chance to win on chupung, and then cheesed in game 3.
Yeah I think we can both agree that Stork was not on top of his mental game at all in that series. Reading his interview, you would not think he was up 1-0. It seems like he went into the games with the mindset "well no matter what happens I will loose, so I may as well just try this."
Not really something you hope to see in the defending champion, or in any player of Stork's caliber.
I really like this PR, but Light seems way out of place on it. He has been good in the WL, but not nearly as good as many others. Hiya and free have been performing better in WL, otherwise i would have picked by.hero or zero (well he's eliminated now) for their starleague performance.
Also i have no idea what forgg is doing in CBNC, he has been in a big slump.
Read Stork's post OSL quarterfinals game one interview - he was going to give up the series if he lost the first game because the third map was Tears of the Moon. That is probably why he cheeses against Jaedong even up 1-0 - he just didn't want to risk playing on that map.
That just seemed really stupid. He should have just played in a way that gave him the best chance to win on chupung, and then cheesed in game 3.
this was the way that gave him the best chanse. this rush was only used once on this map and it was successfull. I saw this same build on Medusa against July that worked too. Actually this is very hard to fend off, i just wonder how could JD be so calm, and make the right decisions from the start. Didnt wast a mineral, remember, he made a creep colony just to enlarge the creep, and built a sunken there. I guess most of the zergs would have been so scared that they are losing the series that would have upgraded the initial one too. The good thing about this build that the followup is very strong, corsairs +2 canon in the main to counter mutas. Once the first dt comes out the toss gains mapcontrol secures his nat, and macros up an army+harasses the zerg, who's stuggling with low dronecount because of the rush and the 1 hatch opening. Just a-moves around the time the zerg eco would start to be strong again. JD however didnt waste a single second, ignored the pylon at the nat, gone straight for the main, cleared up a gateway than attacked the canons with hydra+muta. You could have noticed, that the dt came out just when Stork's probes were going down. He had more than enough corsairs to hold the air, and with dts the hydras would have been forced back. if JD attacks 5-10 secs later he could have had trouble. But i think most people were just watching and saing, jeeze, JD rolled over Stork with ease, Stork is a newbie.
The problem was with his build in the 2nd game, imo, 1 base reaver, wont work EVER against JD if he scouts it, but even if he doesnt it's hard. His trademark scurges showed up this time too, but i think he could have won without them too. The point where Stork lost the game, imo, was when he lost 2 of his zealots for nothing in front of his ramp. It made sure that he wont be able to expand as quick as he wanted to, cuz that attempt will be flankattacked and destroyed with ease. I think stokr's best chanse was an agressive zealot opening, because his slowzealot micro is one of the best for sure.
EDIT: i checked, Stork played a couple televised games on sin chupung, and lost them but one, in whihc he beat ggplay with this cheesebuild
But I don't get is why Stork moves out into his natural with his ground army, attempting to secure a expansion a little bit before the reaver pops out. It's like, 'ok, it's nice that you have a reaver but you have no army to support it now.'
On March 14 2009 14:51 Avidkeystamper wrote: But I don't get is why Stork moves out into his natural with his ground army, attempting to secure a expansion a little bit before the reaver pops out. It's like, 'ok, it's nice that you have a reaver but you have no army to support it now.'
I'm actually not that confused by Stork's play. He publicly expressed that he didn't like Tears of the Moon, which I understand is reasonable. So if he lost game 2 straight up and decide to cheese on game 3, it'd be more predictable than in game 2. That's what I gather. Although I thought he could have targeted that sunken with the zeal while it was morphing.
On March 14 2009 11:00 LxRogue wrote: I really like this PR, but Light seems way out of place on it. He has been good in the WL, but not nearly as good as many others. Hiya and free have been performing better in WL, otherwise i would have picked by.hero or zero (well he's eliminated now) for their starleague performance.
Well I can't speak for FakeSteve or anything but in my opinion I like the selection of Light over Hiya and Zero and such because, for me, watching the games Light played has been more impressive that the games the other players you mentioned have been. Although their records might look similar, I think this is the reason Light makes the cut.
FS really seems to like to factor in how well people look when they play as opposed to just factoring in wins and losses. This makes the PR much more fun because occasionally he'll have to put in people like BackHo or Free who are very successful progamers despite occasional unfathomable sloppy play. And then he has to do a writeup and it's usually good stuff.
On March 14 2009 11:00 LxRogue wrote: I really like this PR, but Light seems way out of place on it. He has been good in the WL, but not nearly as good as many others. Hiya and free have been performing better in WL, otherwise i would have picked by.hero or zero (well he's eliminated now) for their starleague performance.
Well I can't speak for FakeSteve or anything but in my opinion I like the selection of Light over Hiya and Zero and such because, for me, watching the games Light played has been more impressive that the games the other players you mentioned have been. Although their records might look similar, I think this is the reason Light makes the cut.
FS really seems to like to factor in how well people look when they play as opposed to just factoring in wins and losses. This makes the PR much more fun because occasionally he'll have to put in people like BackHo or Free who are very successful progamers despite occasional unfathomable sloppy play. And then he has to do a writeup and it's usually good stuff.
hmm...Well Hiya has both Lomo and Jaedong on his team to back him up If one of them drops a game the other two can potentially pick up and finish Free is also on fire going 12-5, but he has ZeRO and a whole slew of neophytes that can potentially kick ass
Light however is by himself. I mean who else does he have? Sea[Shield] is playing well i suppose. But does all killing ACE really count? (I'm on the fence) Well anyways... Light has just rocked everyone's socks off His level of play picked up dramatically
I think Stork was right by doing this rush. We all know that TM is a ZvP autowin. So in fact Stork knew that game 2 would decide the series. In general Stork's odds vs. JD aren't too good, especially at the moment. The interesting thing is, that the rush DID work indeed, the crucial mistake was not to attack the morphing sunken colony with the first zealot and the cannon down the ramp in range of the sunken. If you watch the video carefully you'll notice that it took around 11-12 seconds till the sunken was finished after the zealot got up the ramp. This would have been enough time to kill it with the zealot and a cannon shooting up the ramp (focussing on the sunken, not on the overlord). So that's what costed Stork the series... anyway gj JD, know we'll see the remacht JD vs. TY in the finals. Does anyone know how the map exclusion works this OSL? I'd like to see a nice bo5. It would be more interesting without JD being up 1-0 before the games started...
On March 15 2009 06:41 Polar_Bear wrote: I think Stork was right by doing this rush. We all know that TM is a ZvP autowin. So in fact Stork knew that game 2 would decide the series. In general Stork's odds vs. JD aren't too good, especially at the moment. The interesting thing is, that the rush DID work indeed, the crucial mistake was not to attack the morphing sunken colony with the first zealot and the cannon down the ramp in range of the sunken. If you watch the video carefully you'll notice that it took around 11-12 seconds till the sunken was finished after the zealot got up the ramp. This would have been enough time to kill it with the zealot and a cannon shooting up the ramp (focussing on the sunken, not on the overlord). So that's what costed Stork the series... anyway gj JD, know we'll see the remacht JD vs. TY in the finals. Does anyone know how the map exclusion works this OSL? I'd like to see a nice bo5. It would be more interesting without JD being up 1-0 before the games started...
It will be 1-1 before the game even starts because he has no chance on Taekdusa.
On March 15 2009 06:41 Polar_Bear wrote: I think Stork was right by doing this rush. We all know that TM is a ZvP autowin. So in fact Stork knew that game 2 would decide the series. In general Stork's odds vs. JD aren't too good, especially at the moment. The interesting thing is, that the rush DID work indeed, the crucial mistake was not to attack the morphing sunken colony with the first zealot and the cannon down the ramp in range of the sunken. If you watch the video carefully you'll notice that it took around 11-12 seconds till the sunken was finished after the zealot got up the ramp. This would have been enough time to kill it with the zealot and a cannon shooting up the ramp (focussing on the sunken, not on the overlord). So that's what costed Stork the series... anyway gj JD, know we'll see the remacht JD vs. TY in the finals. Does anyone know how the map exclusion works this OSL? I'd like to see a nice bo5. It would be more interesting without JD being up 1-0 before the games started...
"Stork would have won"? Puh-lease man, Stork might have had a chance if he had done that. JD had 4 lings ready almost instantly when that zealot got to the min line which means he probably could have killed off that zealot at least if stork got the sunk, and JD still had the other creep colony to up if things looked too grim.
On March 15 2009 07:29 Darth Peter wrote: It will be 1-1 before the game even starts because he has no chance on Taekdusa.
I hope so, but still I'd rather see a bo5 than a bo3.
On March 15 2009 19:17 Zinbiel wrote: "Stork would have won"? Puh-lease man, Stork might have had a chance if he had done that. JD had 4 lings ready almost instantly when that zealot got to the min line which means he probably could have killed off that zealot at least if stork got the sunk, and JD still had the other creep colony to up if things looked too grim.
There was enough time to kill the sunken and save the Zealot from the Lings. To regain control of his ramp it would have taken lots of larvae and mins. I don't say "Stork would have won", I say he would have had a huge lead (let's call it 95% winning chance). There's nothing weaker in the game of SC than a Z with only one hatchery. On the other hand Stork got lucky that JD didn't go 9pool, which would've sealed him the deal. To put it in a nutshell, my point was: -trying this rush was reasonable on Stork's part, considering that the inofficial score was 1-1 at that point and he's clearly inferior to JD atm -Stork got very lucky that JD decided to do a 12hatch-build without drone scout -before JD noticed what was going on, everything went perfect for Stork, afterwards JD reacted very well -there was a chance for Stork to transfer his sucessful rush to a big lead in the midgame by killing the first sunken -Stork didn't take it and was screwed immediately -> Stork's mistake was not the rush, but the decision not to attack the sunken
On March 15 2009 19:17 Zinbiel wrote: "Stork would have won"? Puh-lease man, Stork might have had a chance if he had done that. JD had 4 lings ready almost instantly when that zealot got to the min line which means he probably could have killed off that zealot at least if stork got the sunk, and JD still had the other creep colony to up if things looked too grim.
There was enough time to kill the sunken and save the Zealot from the Lings. To regain control of his ramp it would have taken lots of larvae and mins. I don't say "Stork would have won", I say he would have had a huge lead (let's call it 95% winning chance). There's nothing weaker in the game of SC than a Z with only one hatchery. On the other hand Stork got lucky that JD didn't go 9pool, which would've sealed him the deal. To put it in a nutshell, my point was: -trying this rush was reasonable on Stork's part, considering that the inofficial score was 1-1 at that point and he's clearly inferior to JD atm -Stork got very lucky that JD decided to do a 12hatch-build without drone scout -before JD noticed what was going on, everything went perfect for Stork, afterwards JD reacted very well -there was a chance for Stork to transfer his sucessful rush to a big lead in the midgame by killing the first sunken -Stork didn't take it and was screwed immediately -> Stork's mistake was not the rush, but the decision not to attack the sunken
With 4 lings and a sunken attacking, the Zealot can land about 4 hits(64/300hp) max. 2 extra drones and the gained mining time really would have made it end up being pretty much even, if not favor JD even more.
And there's nothing wrong with a 1-hatch Zerg for a short duration. It only gets inferior after the P is able to get more probes and stabilize his production. But with a build like that, his production and economy were at least on par with Stork's, as you could see.
On March 16 2009 07:30 ]343[ wrote: yayyy a CBNC from fakesteve! Haven't seen one recently
EDIT: anyway I find it amusing that the only MU bisu seems mortal in now is PvZ
Ironically I think the only matchup he does look IMmortal these days is PvP. Zergs have been owning him left and right lately(ATTENTION: I'm exaggerating of course!) and he hasn't faced a decent terran in a BoX since the GomTV series vs. Flash, which could have very well gone the other way imho.
On March 16 2009 07:30 ]343[ wrote: yayyy a CBNC from fakesteve! Haven't seen one recently
EDIT: anyway I find it amusing that the only MU bisu seems mortal in now is PvZ
Ironically I think the only matchup he does look IMmortal these days is PvP. Zergs have been owning him left and right lately(ATTENTION: I'm exaggerating of course!) and he hasn't faced a decent terran in a BoX since the GomTV series vs. Flash, which although it was a 3-1 win, could have very well gone the other way imho.
On March 16 2009 07:30 ]343[ wrote: yayyy a CBNC from fakesteve! Haven't seen one recently
EDIT: anyway I find it amusing that the only MU bisu seems mortal in now is PvZ
Ironically I think the only matchup he does look IMmortal these days is PvP. Zergs have been owning him left and right lately(ATTENTION: I'm exaggerating of course!) and he hasn't faced a decent terran in a BoX since the GomTV series vs. Flash, which although it was a 3-1 win, could have very well gone the other way imho.
On March 16 2009 07:30 ]343[ wrote: yayyy a CBNC from fakesteve! Haven't seen one recently
EDIT: anyway I find it amusing that the only MU bisu seems mortal in now is PvZ
Ironically I think the only matchup he does look IMmortal these days is PvP. Zergs have been owning him left and right lately(ATTENTION: I'm exaggerating of course!) and he hasn't faced a decent terran in a BoX since the GomTV series vs. Flash, which although it was a 3-1 win, could have very well gone the other way imho.
Actually, that was 2-1. It was a Bo3.
True, but Bisu also beat him in Proleauge shortly after the GomTV series.
On March 16 2009 08:46 traced wrote: his pvz is still probably his best matchup, it's just also the one he's most likely to lose at
I'm confused, since there's a lot more S class terrans and protosses. So isn't that contradictory?
just because protoss are susceptible to a ton of rushes early, and if it's exotic enough then all they have to do is deny scouting and they have a real chance
i think the TL staff should write an article about progamer tiers, because it seem that everyone is using the S class term, yet for everyone it has a different meaning. (some ppl say Kal and otherrs are S calss, others say there are only 3-4 S class players)
On March 16 2009 23:47 Geo.Rion wrote: i think the TL staff should write an article about progamer tiers, because it seem that everyone is using the S class term, yet for everyone it has a different meaning. (some ppl say Kal and otherrs are S calss, others say there are only 3-4 S class players)
I don't think the staff are the outright authority on whether a player is S-class or not.
On March 16 2009 23:47 Geo.Rion wrote: i think the TL staff should write an article about progamer tiers, because it seem that everyone is using the S class term, yet for everyone it has a different meaning. (some ppl say Kal and otherrs are S calss, others say there are only 3-4 S class players)
I don't think the staff are the outright authority on whether a player is S-class or not.
but they can tell what it means on this site, and how should ppl use it. it's not obligatory, but i would like more if it would be somehow fixed. Not like The following players are S class, the folowing are A etc. MOre liek than a player who is blabalb and blabla can be named as X class
whaterver, just wondering, i would like it at least
the current S-Class is three players: Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu.
Stork when he's on top of shit can play S-Class starcraft, Jangbi's PvT is S-Class, etc. It's a generic term for 'the absolute best'. Kal is way too inconsistant.
On March 17 2009 01:24 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: the current S-Class is three players: Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu.
Stork when he's on top of shit can play S-Class starcraft, Jangbi's PvT is S-Class, etc. It's a generic term for 'the absolute best'. Kal is way too inconsistant.
I agree with this.
I don't really think there should many disputes for who is/is not S class. Certain match-ups maybe.
a few of NaDa's games and especially some vs Jangbi were S class as well. But there's a difference between playing a few games like an S class gamer ( -/- ) being a s class gamer. Obviously Im talking about 'right now ' otherwise NaDa would be the s classiest gamer ever anyways..
On March 17 2009 01:24 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: the current S-Class is three players: Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu.
Stork when he's on top of shit can play S-Class starcraft, Jangbi's PvT is S-Class, etc. It's a generic term for 'the absolute best'. Kal is way too inconsistant.
This
Flash, Jaedong and Bisu absoultly dominate when they play. Noone can watch their games and NOT be impressed
Stork Incruit level would be considered S-class methinks. Jangbi is rising and rising fast, and if what FakeSteve says is valid, then he will soon join the upper echleons of power as the second S-class Protoss. His playstyle is very similar to Bisu's, just a bit more conservative. With an apm of 300+ and a great multitask, he could possibly break out even more in the next rounds of SL's. (scary shit)
Kal and Free are both wayy to inconsistant and have too many flaws in their gameplay.
Leta is still very new to the scene, and as one can witness from his spectacular crash from both starleagues, he is still wet behind the ears. If he can pull himself together and get together another ridiculous win streak i think we have a makings of a king.
The broodlings twins are sort of an anomoly to me. Lux is EXTREMLY streaky. I dont know when he wants to kick ass or when he wants to suck catastrophically. When he gets a semblance of balance and kicks ass for a longer period of time, i think he will get general approval.
I really dont know who else in the scene right now who would possibly earn the title of "s-class". Any ideas?
On March 18 2009 02:42 GeneralStan wrote: I think Jangbi is an all around S-Class protoss
Yup me too his MUs are to solid and its not like he is inconsistent or something in them ...
I've been thinking about it for almost 3 minutes and I can't figure out weather this is sarcastic on not.
Why would he be sarcastic?
Ya, I don't get it either... JangBi is one of the most consistent players overall in just about every match-up. The only thing he's missing is a title. If he takes the MSL Gold, which I'm confident he will, it'll be a very solid title, considering he was facing a terran, a protoss, and a zerg in the Ro8, Ro4 and the finals respectively. And not too shabby one's either... NaDa with some stunning play, an in-form Stork, and Luxury who's probably at the peak of his skill level atm.
On March 17 2009 01:24 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: the current S-Class is three players: Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu.
Stork when he's on top of shit can play S-Class starcraft, Jangbi's PvT is S-Class, etc. It's a generic term for 'the absolute best'. Kal is way too inconsistant.
yup, definately.
Stork definately looked S class when he was at the OSL finals recently, although I question his PvZ sometimes, his PvT is one of the best in the world, and his PvP and PvZ can be incredibly good on the right days
Jangbi...maybe his PvT.
FBH and Sea's TvZ is considered S class
I guess it depends on the matchup for most players
On March 18 2009 13:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: it's not us, the phrase "S-Class" has been around for ages. I'm not sure where it comes from.
Mercedes named "S-Class" their best car long ago. Back in the day when Siemens produced cell phones, their best stuff was in the S series, like S65,S55 etc. So basically companies have been labeling highest class products with S. Maybe it comes from super or special, doesnt really matter
On March 18 2009 02:42 GeneralStan wrote: I think Jangbi is an all around S-Class protoss
Well, Jangbi would be except for the lack of accomplishments. But once he pummels Luxury in the MSL finals, that will change.
On March 18 2009 05:54 Orbifold wrote:
On March 18 2009 05:50 raga4ka wrote:
On March 18 2009 02:42 GeneralStan wrote: I think Jangbi is an all around S-Class protoss
Yup me too his MUs are to solid and its not like he is inconsistent or something in them ...
I've been thinking about it for almost 3 minutes and I can't figure out weather this is sarcastic on not.
Why would he be sarcastic?
Ya, I don't get it either... JangBi is one of the most consistent players overall in just about every match-up. The only thing he's missing is a title. If he takes the MSL Gold, which I'm confident he will, it'll be a very solid title, considering he was facing a terran, a protoss, and a zerg in the Ro8, Ro4 and the finals respectively. And not too shabby one's either... NaDa with some stunning play, an in-form Stork, and Luxury who's probably at the peak of his skill level atm.
that's true, except that stork is nowhere near his top form right now. which is sad =(
In some Japanese video games (I'm thinking particularly of Fire Emblem, but there are others), S is the highest level a skill or power can reach, after D,C,B, then A.
If jangbi can take that series against Lux i will be amazed. Those maps heavely z>p. Jangbi cheeses a lot/plays unorthodox for sure that might help him out. Or if Lux is in abad form. he tends to play awful sometimes.
I'm not sure if I'd put Jangbi on the S class list, but he's definitely the 4th best player of today. He's been hanging with the best for quite some time, goes far in leagues, has the consistency, and has no weak matchup. He might not be as dominant as Bisu, Jaedong and Flash, but he is a level above everybody else.
The name "S-Class" derives from the German word "Sonderklasse" of which "S-Class" is an abbreviation. Sonderklasse means "special class" (or rather: "In a class of its own")
On March 18 2009 19:44 Geo.Rion wrote: If jangbi can take that series against Lux i will be amazed. Those maps heavely z>p. Jangbi cheeses a lot/plays unorthodox for sure that might help him out. Or if Lux is in abad form. he tends to play awful sometimes.
Which maps are gonna be played ? I know that Bizantinum is pretty P>>>>>>>>Z . Don't know about the other maps .
On March 18 2009 19:44 Geo.Rion wrote: If jangbi can take that series against Lux i will be amazed. Those maps heavely z>p. Jangbi cheeses a lot/plays unorthodox for sure that might help him out. Or if Lux is in abad form. he tends to play awful sometimes.
Which maps are gonna be played ? I know that Bizantinum is pretty P>>>>>>>>Z . Don't know about the other maps .
The first three maps are: Harmony,Destination and Carthage,and Byzantium isn't that imba either lately,the deciding game will be on Harmony again. I'm with Lux in this one,I think Jangbi is the next big fail
On March 18 2009 19:44 Geo.Rion wrote: If jangbi can take that series against Lux i will be amazed. Those maps heavely z>p. Jangbi cheeses a lot/plays unorthodox for sure that might help him out. Or if Lux is in abad form. he tends to play awful sometimes.
Which maps are gonna be played ? I know that Bizantinum is pretty P>>>>>>>>Z . Don't know about the other maps .
Byzantium 2 ZvP: 4-5. Clearly, this map is the zerg graveyard. From watching the games, I don't remember any games which were decided by the map.
On the other hand, Neo Harmony(which is played twice) is 11-4 ZvP and, while Carthage is only 3-1 ZvP, it is apparently so zerg-favoured that JangBi chose to thumb it it down instead of Neo Harmony.
Destination is reasonably balanced at ZvP: 34-31, although it feels to me like zerg have a slight advantage from their abundance of weird tricks(for example, HoeJJa vs Bisu from KTF/SKT).
So yeah, the MSL map pool is definitely zerg-favoured in ZvP.
On March 18 2009 21:22 fanatacist wrote: Problem with JangBi is he can only (potentially) win SLs that Bisu isn't in LOL
And Bisu has not won when he has to go through Jaedong or Mind. This kind of reasoning can go on and on.
On March 19 2009 08:53 Elyvilon wrote: Byzantium 2 ZvP: 4-5. Clearly, this map is the zerg graveyard. From watching the games, I don't remember any games which were decided by the map.
On the other hand, Neo Harmony(which is played twice) is 11-4 ZvP and, while Carthage is only 3-1 ZvP, it is apparently so zerg-favoured that JangBi chose to thumb it it down instead of Neo Harmony.
Destination is reasonably balanced at ZvP: 34-31, although it feels to me like zerg have a slight advantage from their abundance of weird tricks(for example, HoeJJa vs Bisu from KTF/SKT).
So yeah, the MSL map pool is definitely zerg-favoured in ZvP.
Destination is really weird. At first, protoss dominated the map. I can't remember but I believe the archon/zealot push here just kept killing zergs. But then zergs figured out how to simcity the 3rd and since then, the mass hydra/muta combo became really powerful.
Byzantium has long since lost its imbalance with all the modifications.
[QUOTE]On March 19 2009 09:46 baubo wrote: [QUOTE]On March 18 2009 21:22 fanatacist wrote: Problem with JangBi is he can only (potentially) win SLs that Bisu isn't in LOL[/QUOTE]
And Bisu has not won when he has to go through Jaedong or Mind. This kind of reasoning can go on and on.
His PvP is the main thing that's kept him from being widely accepted as an S-class player in my opinion. It sometimes seems like he's just dominated by players like Bisu, though he has really been improving rapidly in PvP and PvZ.
[QUOTE]On March 19 2009 13:43 Orbifold wrote: [QUOTE]On March 19 2009 09:46 baubo wrote: [QUOTE]On March 18 2009 21:22 fanatacist wrote: Problem with JangBi is he can only (potentially) win SLs that Bisu isn't in LOL[/QUOTE]
And Bisu has not won when he has to go through Jaedong or Mind. This kind of reasoning can go on and on.
His PvP is the main thing that's kept him from being widely accepted as an S-class player in my opinion. It sometimes seems like he's just dominated by players like Bisu, though he has really been improving rapidly in PvP and PvZ. [/QUOTE]
Well actually, Bisu has gone through mind in OSL wildcard and Jaedong and him just might meet in the final so...
On March 18 2009 21:22 fanatacist wrote: Problem with JangBi is he can only (potentially) win SLs that Bisu isn't in LOL
And Bisu has not won when he has to go through Jaedong or Mind. This kind of reasoning can go on and on.
His PvP is the main thing that's kept him from being widely accepted as an S-class player in my opinion. It sometimes seems like he's just dominated by players like Bisu, though he has really been improving rapidly in PvP and PvZ.
He has soundly beaten 3 dragons in Bo5 series. How is that anything BUT proof of S-Class PvP? If your definition of S-Class is beating Bisu, then Flash should not be S-Class. Even Jaedong is iffy because his ZvT is still suspect in terms of being "S-Class".
Jangbi's play is for all intents and purposes s-class. But he lacks a title. And until he does win one, or racks up so many silvers to even put Yellow to shame, I can see the argument against him being that caliber.
On March 18 2009 19:44 Geo.Rion wrote: If jangbi can take that series against Lux i will be amazed. Those maps heavely z>p. Jangbi cheeses a lot/plays unorthodox for sure that might help him out. Or if Lux is in abad form. he tends to play awful sometimes.
Which maps are gonna be played ? I know that Bizantinum is pretty P>>>>>>>>Z . Don't know about the other maps .
Byzantium 2 ZvP: 4-5. Clearly, this map is the zerg graveyard. From watching the games, I don't remember any games which were decided by the map.
On the other hand, Neo Harmony(which is played twice) is 11-4 ZvP and, while Carthage is only 3-1 ZvP, it is apparently so zerg-favoured that JangBi chose to thumb it it down instead of Neo Harmony.
Destination is reasonably balanced at ZvP: 34-31, although it feels to me like zerg have a slight advantage from their abundance of weird tricks(for example, HoeJJa vs Bisu from KTF/SKT).
So yeah, the MSL map pool is definitely zerg-favoured in ZvP.
Destination is a zerg favoring map now. Tosses used to dominate the map, than the balance swinged back. The stats are fairly even because of the early days. Is one of the few maps, where zergs can cheese, and by cheese i dont mean 2 hatch muta (cuz that's not) but proxy hatchery, abusing the mineralblocked back entrence. We saw already 3-4 type of tricks there. Most basic, sending an early drone to mine, advanced version of it, send 5 drone to mine it at once, failureprone version: use a drone to glitch trough some lings, and the sick burrow-jump ala Hoejja.
Zergs take their 3rd relatevly fast and the tosses seem like they cant deal with it very well. It is quite easy to contain with a couple of lurkers the toss on 2 base. And protosses struggle to keep their 3rd. One manouver what beats me with this scenarion is that, the toss doesnt tries do 3rd exp, masses up a ground army, than mines the mineral patch at the back, avoids/flanks my contain and i'm screwed. I didnt see this on pro scene, probably because at pro level tosses arent comfortable without their 3rd expo.
On March 18 2009 21:22 fanatacist wrote: Problem with JangBi is he can only (potentially) win SLs that Bisu isn't in LOL
And Bisu has not won when he has to go through Jaedong or Mind. This kind of reasoning can go on and on.
His PvP is the main thing that's kept him from being widely accepted as an S-class player in my opinion. It sometimes seems like he's just dominated by players like Bisu, though he has really been improving rapidly in PvP and PvZ.
He has soundly beaten 3 dragons in Bo5 series. How is that anything BUT proof of S-Class PvP? If your definition of S-Class is beating Bisu, then Flash should not be S-Class. Even Jaedong is iffy because his ZvT is still suspect in terms of being "S-Class".
Jangbi's play is for all intents and purposes s-class. But he lacks a title. And until he does win one, or racks up so many silvers to even put Yellow to shame, I can see the argument against him being that caliber.
Jaedong can go toe-to-toe with Bisu, but his ZvP is far less consistent than his ZvT nowadays. He has been 72% in that MU ever since he beat Flash on Destination which broke his "slump" (wow have I said that before). His ZvT cannot be called suspect. His PvZ, on the other hand, is prone to inconsistencies, like dropping the soap against Stork and losing pretty badly to Kal and Free.
On March 18 2009 21:22 fanatacist wrote: Problem with JangBi is he can only (potentially) win SLs that Bisu isn't in LOL
And Bisu has not won when he has to go through Jaedong or Mind. This kind of reasoning can go on and on.
His PvP is the main thing that's kept him from being widely accepted as an S-class player in my opinion. It sometimes seems like he's just dominated by players like Bisu, though he has really been improving rapidly in PvP and PvZ.
He has soundly beaten 3 dragons in Bo5 series. How is that anything BUT proof of S-Class PvP? If your definition of S-Class is beating Bisu, then Flash should not be S-Class. Even Jaedong is iffy because his ZvT is still suspect in terms of being "S-Class".
Jangbi's play is for all intents and purposes s-class. But he lacks a title. And until he does win one, or racks up so many silvers to even put Yellow to shame, I can see the argument against him being that caliber.
JangBi is the second best PvPer right now how is that not S - class ? Even when he plays Bisu the games are pretty even althought Bisu comes out ahead somehow ...
On March 18 2009 21:22 fanatacist wrote: Problem with JangBi is he can only (potentially) win SLs that Bisu isn't in LOL
And Bisu has not won when he has to go through Jaedong or Mind. This kind of reasoning can go on and on.
His PvP is the main thing that's kept him from being widely accepted as an S-class player in my opinion. It sometimes seems like he's just dominated by players like Bisu, though he has really been improving rapidly in PvP and PvZ.
He has soundly beaten 3 dragons in Bo5 series. How is that anything BUT proof of S-Class PvP? If your definition of S-Class is beating Bisu, then Flash should not be S-Class. Even Jaedong is iffy because his ZvT is still suspect in terms of being "S-Class".
Jangbi's play is for all intents and purposes s-class. But he lacks a title. And until he does win one, or racks up so many silvers to even put Yellow to shame, I can see the argument against him being that caliber.
JangBi is the second best PvPer right now how is that not S - class ? Even when he plays Bisu the games are pretty even althought Bisu comes out ahead somehow ...
isn't that the definition of not being s class? I mean, if someone is better than you then you don't get a pass to the S-Club.
On March 18 2009 21:22 fanatacist wrote: Problem with JangBi is he can only (potentially) win SLs that Bisu isn't in LOL
And Bisu has not won when he has to go through Jaedong or Mind. This kind of reasoning can go on and on.
His PvP is the main thing that's kept him from being widely accepted as an S-class player in my opinion. It sometimes seems like he's just dominated by players like Bisu, though he has really been improving rapidly in PvP and PvZ.
He has soundly beaten 3 dragons in Bo5 series. How is that anything BUT proof of S-Class PvP? If your definition of S-Class is beating Bisu, then Flash should not be S-Class. Even Jaedong is iffy because his ZvT is still suspect in terms of being "S-Class".
Jangbi's play is for all intents and purposes s-class. But he lacks a title. And until he does win one, or racks up so many silvers to even put Yellow to shame, I can see the argument against him being that caliber.
JangBi is the second best PvPer right now how is that not S - class ? Even when he plays Bisu the games are pretty even althought Bisu comes out ahead somehow ...
isn't that the definition of not being s class? I mean, if someone is better than you then you don't get a pass to the S-Club.
Turn it around: Jangbi has the best PvT and his PvP and PvZ rank around second or third. He is the fourth best player in the world without question, which could make him eligible for the S-class, if you want to make that argument.
On March 20 2009 02:01 OmegaFang wrote: I would actually make an arguement that Bisu's current PvT form is better than Jangbi's right now.
Ummmm, no. Jangbi definitely has better PvT. Bisu hasn't even been playing that many terrans recently.
Jangbi hasn't either. He barely beat Nada,and Bisu beat him too. They have about the same P v T. Perhaps Jangbi's is slightly better,but it's a close race.
Jangbi is by far my favorite Toss, I really wasn't trying to hate on him whatsoever. It's just that he is only 55% PvP, I totally admit though that he has been playing a much stronger PvP lately.
My personal criteria isn't beating Bisu, it's just that he has so far seemed dominated by Bisu in a way that an S class player shouldn't be.
On March 20 2009 03:45 zhaoli86 wrote: since oct 08, bisu is 84% vs t, jangbi is 80% vs t Bisu has slight edge, and his opponents have been tougher too.
Opponent toughness isn't measured by their names. It depends on how they're playing. If you see JangBi - NaDa 3:2 you might think "oh, JangBi's PvT is looking a little shaky", but if you've actually seen NaDa play you realize he played some S-Class TvP in that series and I'm pretty sure any other protoss would have lost that series.
This was of course only an example. But the same goes for many other games. Furthermore, it's not only the winning percentage you have to take into account. You also have to consider how every single game went individually. Was the opponent completely dismantled, or was it close? Did both players underperform, but one a littler harder than the other? Etc.
You can't really compare two players' strength in a certain match-up that way.
On March 20 2009 03:45 zhaoli86 wrote: since oct 08, bisu is 84% vs t, jangbi is 80% vs t Bisu has slight edge, and his opponents have been tougher too.
Opponent toughness isn't measured by their names. It depends on how they're playing. If you see JangBi - NaDa 3:2 you might think "oh, JangBi's PvT is looking a little shaky", but if you've actually seen NaDa play you realize he played some S-Class TvP in that series and I'm pretty sure any other protoss would have lost that series.
This was of course only an example. But the same goes for many other games. Furthermore, it's not only the winning percentage you have to take into account. You also have to consider how every single game went individually. Was the opponent completely dismantled, or was it close? Did both players underperform, but one a littler harder than the other? Etc.
You can't really compare two players' strength in a certain match-up that way.
In those cases, Bisu does seem to have the edge over Jangbi. In the games Bisu won, he totally destroyed his opponents with the exception of Flash. Whereas Jangbi looked relatively shaky in many of his games. They played the same amount of games since oct 08, and Bisu had higher winning percentage AND tougher opponents AND looked better in the games he won.
On March 18 2009 19:44 Geo.Rion wrote: If jangbi can take that series against Lux i will be amazed. Those maps heavely z>p. Jangbi cheeses a lot/plays unorthodox for sure that might help him out. Or if Lux is in abad form. he tends to play awful sometimes.
Which maps are gonna be played ? I know that Bizantinum is pretty P>>>>>>>>Z . Don't know about the other maps .
Byzantium 2 ZvP: 4-5. Clearly, this map is the zerg graveyard. From watching the games, I don't remember any games which were decided by the map.
On the other hand, Neo Harmony(which is played twice) is 11-4 ZvP and, while Carthage is only 3-1 ZvP, it is apparently so zerg-favoured that JangBi chose to thumb it it down instead of Neo Harmony.
Destination is reasonably balanced at ZvP: 34-31, although it feels to me like zerg have a slight advantage from their abundance of weird tricks(for example, HoeJJa vs Bisu from KTF/SKT).
So yeah, the MSL map pool is definitely zerg-favoured in ZvP.
Destination is a zerg favoring map now. Tosses used to dominate the map, than the balance swinged back. The stats are fairly even because of the early days. Is one of the few maps, where zergs can cheese, and by cheese i dont mean 2 hatch muta (cuz that's not) but proxy hatchery, abusing the mineralblocked back entrence. We saw already 3-4 type of tricks there. Most basic, sending an early drone to mine, advanced version of it, send 5 drone to mine it at once, failureprone version: use a drone to glitch trough some lings, and the sick burrow-jump ala Hoejja.
Zergs take their 3rd relatevly fast and the tosses seem like they cant deal with it very well. It is quite easy to contain with a couple of lurkers the toss on 2 base. And protosses struggle to keep their 3rd. One manouver what beats me with this scenarion is that, the toss doesnt tries do 3rd exp, masses up a ground army, than mines the mineral patch at the back, avoids/flanks my contain and i'm screwed. I didnt see this on pro scene, probably because at pro level tosses arent comfortable without their 3rd expo.
^ Most stupid thing I have ever heard in relation to StarCraft
Actually, Bisu is PvT 21 wins - 3 losses (87.50%) in his past 24 games....
~3 losses being to Flash, Iris and Light... who were all pretty hot at one time or another. ~Quality wins over Flash (x3), Mind (x2), Light, Leta, Piano, Hiya, Lomo ~Rapes of Hwasin (x2), FBH (x3), Skyhigh (x3), Sea (x2)
That's pretty wins over much EVERY quality Terran player who is actively playing starcraft.
I don't think it's a stretch to say his PvT is better than JangBi's right now. ALTHOUGH JangBi has definitely been playing PvT better for a longer stretch of time.
Also, here's hoping that he can 3-0 fantasy tonight...
On March 20 2009 03:45 zhaoli86 wrote: since oct 08, bisu is 84% vs t, jangbi is 80% vs t Bisu has slight edge, and his opponents have been tougher too.
Opponent toughness isn't measured by their names. It depends on how they're playing. If you see JangBi - NaDa 3:2 you might think "oh, JangBi's PvT is looking a little shaky", but if you've actually seen NaDa play you realize he played some S-Class TvP in that series and I'm pretty sure any other protoss would have lost that series.
This was of course only an example. But the same goes for many other games. Furthermore, it's not only the winning percentage you have to take into account. You also have to consider how every single game went individually. Was the opponent completely dismantled, or was it close? Did both players underperform, but one a littler harder than the other? Etc.
You can't really compare two players' strength in a certain match-up that way.
Nice post Mooncat, you are totally correct. Any other protoss was dead meat against Nada in that series.
The logic "Nada hasnt been so hot lately and jangbi barely beat him therefore Bisu's PvT is better" baffles me.
Fantasy is in the new PR Right? That was one hell of a rape, he made bisu look like a bnet pubbie.
On March 20 2009 14:12 eshlow wrote: Actually, Bisu is PvT 21 wins - 3 losses (87.50%) in his past 24 games....
~3 losses being to Flash, Iris and Light... who were all pretty hot at one time or another. ~Quality wins over Flash (x3), Mind (x2), Light, Leta, Piano, Hiya, Lomo ~Rapes of Hwasin (x2), FBH (x3), Skyhigh (x3), Sea (x2)
That's pretty wins over much EVERY quality Terran player who is actively playing starcraft.
I don't think it's a stretch to say his PvT is better than JangBi's right now. ALTHOUGH JangBi has definitely been playing PvT better for a longer stretch of time.
Also, here's hoping that he can 3-0 fantasy tonight...
I predicted a 3-0 too in bisu's favour. But Fantasy stepped up his game tonight and has shown that Jangbi is the best PvT right now, Fantasy also pushed Jangbi to his limits except jangbi won. Fantasy is a pretty strong series player, Im hoping for a good finals.
On March 20 2009 14:12 eshlow wrote: Actually, Bisu is PvT 21 wins - 3 losses (87.50%) in his past 24 games....
~3 losses being to Flash, Iris and Light... who were all pretty hot at one time or another. ~Quality wins over Flash (x3), Mind (x2), Light, Leta, Piano, Hiya, Lomo ~Rapes of Hwasin (x2), FBH (x3), Skyhigh (x3), Sea (x2)
That's pretty wins over much EVERY quality Terran player who is actively playing starcraft.
I don't think it's a stretch to say his PvT is better than JangBi's right now. ALTHOUGH JangBi has definitely been playing PvT better for a longer stretch of time.
Also, here's hoping that he can 3-0 fantasy tonight...
I predicted a 3-0 too in bisu's favour. But Fantasy stepped up his game tonight and has shown that Jangbi is the best PvT right now, Fantasy also pushed Jangbi to his limits except jangbi won. Fantasy is a pretty strong series player, Im hoping for a good finals.
fantasy reaches OSL final AGAIN, by beating bisu 3 0, with one of the toughest OSL roads ever, beating Leta, By.hero Luxury and Bisu on the way. He should probably appear on the next PR
On March 20 2009 14:12 eshlow wrote: Actually, Bisu is PvT 21 wins - 3 losses (87.50%) in his past 24 games....
~3 losses being to Flash, Iris and Light... who were all pretty hot at one time or another. ~Quality wins over Flash (x3), Mind (x2), Light, Leta, Piano, Hiya, Lomo ~Rapes of Hwasin (x2), FBH (x3), Skyhigh (x3), Sea (x2)
That's pretty wins over much EVERY quality Terran player who is actively playing starcraft.
I don't think it's a stretch to say his PvT is better than JangBi's right now. ALTHOUGH JangBi has definitely been playing PvT better for a longer stretch of time.
Also, here's hoping that he can 3-0 fantasy tonight...
While this post is now out of date due to Bisu vs. Fantasy, I have to call you out. You are giving Bisu all his wins back to and not including his loss to FBH, there is no reason for that if you wanted back to this time in October it would be 20-3, if you wanted October 1st then it would be 21-4, the numbers didn't change that much but the important thing is you cheery picked dates to make Bisu look the best he could.
On March 21 2009 00:18 DreaM)XeRO wrote: Please Fantasy on the PR next month PLEASEEE i dont think anyone could take a bo5 from Bisu let alone bisu on fire
Bisu may have been burning, but Fantasy seems to have discovered napalm...
On March 21 2009 00:18 DreaM)XeRO wrote: Please Fantasy on the PR next month PLEASEEE i dont think anyone could take a bo5 from Bisu let alone bisu on fire
Bisu may have been burning, but Fantasy seems to have discovered napalm...
His play in that series was ridiculous.
and Bisu's gamesense was lacking here and there, let's not forgot that
On March 21 2009 00:18 DreaM)XeRO wrote: Please Fantasy on the PR next month PLEASEEE i dont think anyone could take a bo5 from Bisu let alone bisu on fire
Bisu may have been burning, but Fantasy seems to have discovered napalm...
His play in that series was ridiculous.
and Bisu's gamesense was lacking here and there, let's not forgot that
I woudn't take anything away from Fantasy , but yeah Bisu played pretty poorly ... First game stupid 2 base carrier build that got demolished . Second game basic scouting error ... Third game apply pressure without a good follow-up plan .... Bisu should have beated Fantasy at least on 1 map to assure the medusa game ... Maps weren't heavy imbalanced towards terran so there wasn't much of an excuse . Overall a pretty bad performance by Bisu ....
Stork won last OSL against Fantasy 2 of his wins were on chupung were Bisu did a retarded carrier build . I hope this proves once and for all that when you take out the fanboyism Stork and JangBi >>Bisu in PvT . They just have an aura of invincibility in the MU when they are playing at a decent level . Bisu althought he looked pretty damn invincible in the MU most of his games are on Medusa or vs bad or in a slump players excluding Flash . It might also be the case that the quality of TvP has been reducing for no logical reason . It seems like the only players that can TvP for dear life are Fantasy , Flash , Nada , and maybe Light and Hiya in WL . Of course Iris and Skyhigh are always a thread also , but i haven't seen a terran beat good protoss in a series since forever (excluding Bisu vs Fantasy ) . The good old days where Flash ForGG and even Mind were demolishing protoss seems to long ago .
On March 21 2009 00:18 DreaM)XeRO wrote: Please Fantasy on the PR next month PLEASEEE i dont think anyone could take a bo5 from Bisu let alone bisu on fire
He could skyrocked in to first place with the right circumstances althought i think that both the MSL finalists are better then him , even thought Fantasy squeezed out a win against Luxury i still think Luxury is the better player and JangBi of course too . Luxury even took his revenge on Fantasy in WL playoffs .
I kinda thought Hwasin was making a little comeback, but then Luxury punched him in the dick and took his lunch money. He played an inspired first game, and then got his fudge packed in like he's Willy Wonka and the warehouse is full.
LOL WTF. I did not notice that until just now. God damn that made me laugh so hard!
On March 20 2009 14:12 eshlow wrote: Actually, Bisu is PvT 21 wins - 3 losses (87.50%) in his past 24 games....
~3 losses being to Flash, Iris and Light... who were all pretty hot at one time or another. ~Quality wins over Flash (x3), Mind (x2), Light, Leta, Piano, Hiya, Lomo ~Rapes of Hwasin (x2), FBH (x3), Skyhigh (x3), Sea (x2)
That's pretty wins over much EVERY quality Terran player who is actively playing starcraft.
I don't think it's a stretch to say his PvT is better than JangBi's right now. ALTHOUGH JangBi has definitely been playing PvT better for a longer stretch of time.
Also, here's hoping that he can 3-0 fantasy tonight...
While this post is now out of date due to Bisu vs. Fantasy, I have to call you out. You are giving Bisu all his wins back to and not including his loss to FBH, there is no reason for that if you wanted back to this time in October it would be 20-3, if you wanted October 1st then it would be 21-4, the numbers didn't change that much but the important thing is you cheery picked dates to make Bisu look the best he could.
There's nothing wrong with cherry picking here. Oct 1 is a cherry picked date too. What's the point of me or you choosing Oct 1 over something like Oct 15th?
If you're looking at the best "streaks" or records a player has gone on it's always going to be cherry picking for stat periods where they had a strong win streak. It just so happens that after the FBH game for whatever reason he got super hot... and remember he later obliterated FBH 3-0 later in ClubDay.
On March 21 2009 00:18 DreaM)XeRO wrote: Please Fantasy on the PR next month PLEASEEE i dont think anyone could take a bo5 from Bisu let alone bisu on fire
Bisu may have been burning, but Fantasy seems to have discovered napalm...
His play in that series was ridiculous.
and Bisu's gamesense was lacking here and there, let's not forgot that
I woudn't take anything away from Fantasy , but yeah Bisu played pretty poorly ... First game stupid 2 base carrier build that got demolished . Second game basic scouting error ... Third game apply pressure without a good follow-up plan .... Bisu should have beated Fantasy at least on 1 map to assure the medusa game ... Maps weren't heavy imbalanced towards terran so there wasn't much of an excuse . Overall a pretty bad performance by Bisu ....
Stork won last OSL against Fantasy 2 of his wins were on chupung were Bisu did a retarded carrier build . I hope this proves once and for all that when you take out the fanboyism Stork and JangBi >>Bisu in PvT . They just have an aura of invincibility in the MU when they are playing at a decent level . Bisu althought he looked pretty damn invincible in the MU most of his games are on Medusa or vs bad or in a slump players excluding Flash . It might also be the case that the quality of TvP has been reducing for no logical reason . It seems like the only players that can TvP for dear life are Fantasy , Flash , Nada , and maybe Light and Hiya in WL . Of course Iris and Skyhigh are always a thread also , but i haven't seen a terran beat good protoss in a series since forever (excluding Bisu vs Fantasy ) . The good old days where Flash ForGG and even Mind were demolishing protoss seems to long ago .
Current Stork's PvT is not better than Bisu's PvT. Jangbi's PvT is. I don't think there is a huge gap between any of their skill levels the matchup. Not to defend Bisu, but sometimes people play poorly, or other people play really well. Of course that's a credit to Fantasy, and a knock on Bisu, but shit happens. Plus since it was match between teammates, it got even weirder, due to practice issues. Props to Fantasy, but I don't think you look at Bisu getting raped, and say his PvT is significantly worse than someone like Jangbi or Stork.
On March 21 2009 00:18 DreaM)XeRO wrote: Please Fantasy on the PR next month PLEASEEE i dont think anyone could take a bo5 from Bisu let alone bisu on fire
Bisu may have been burning, but Fantasy seems to have discovered napalm...
His play in that series was ridiculous.
and Bisu's gamesense was lacking here and there, let's not forgot that
I woudn't take anything away from Fantasy , but yeah Bisu played pretty poorly ... First game stupid 2 base carrier build that got demolished . Second game basic scouting error ... Third game apply pressure without a good follow-up plan .... Bisu should have beated Fantasy at least on 1 map to assure the medusa game ... Maps weren't heavy imbalanced towards terran so there wasn't much of an excuse . Overall a pretty bad performance by Bisu ....
Stork won last OSL against Fantasy 2 of his wins were on chupung were Bisu did a retarded carrier build . I hope this proves once and for all that when you take out the fanboyism Stork and JangBi >>Bisu in PvT . They just have an aura of invincibility in the MU when they are playing at a decent level . Bisu althought he looked pretty damn invincible in the MU most of his games are on Medusa or vs bad or in a slump players excluding Flash . It might also be the case that the quality of TvP has been reducing for no logical reason . It seems like the only players that can TvP for dear life are Fantasy , Flash , Nada , and maybe Light and Hiya in WL . Of course Iris and Skyhigh are always a thread also , but i haven't seen a terran beat good protoss in a series since forever (excluding Bisu vs Fantasy ) . The good old days where Flash ForGG and even Mind were demolishing protoss seems to long ago .
Current Stork's PvT is not better than Bisu's PvT. Jangbi's PvT is. I don't think there is a huge gap between any of their skill levels the matchup. Not to defend Bisu, but sometimes people play poorly, or other people play really well. Of course that's a credit to Fantasy, and a knock on Bisu, but shit happens. Plus since it was match between teammates, it got even weirder, due to practice issues. Props to Fantasy, but I don't think you look at Bisu getting raped, and say his PvT is significantly worse than someone like Jangbi or Stork.
I don't think it's a stretch to say Samsung tosses are just a level above everyone else in the matchup. Both Jangbi and Stork inherently understand PvT better than anyone else. And since Jangbi has S-class mechanics to back up that knowledge, he has the best PvT in the world right now.
Stork is weird because he's really losing it recently in terms of control. Horrible large army control and generally bad micro. But in terms of understanding the MU and knows how to play on on terran favored maps, he is the best in the game. Although Much is up there too, although he doesn't get played anymore.
Bisu's PvT is basically good when the situation is advantageous or even. But he can't fight any uphill battles.
On March 21 2009 00:18 DreaM)XeRO wrote: Please Fantasy on the PR next month PLEASEEE i dont think anyone could take a bo5 from Bisu let alone bisu on fire
Bisu may have been burning, but Fantasy seems to have discovered napalm...
His play in that series was ridiculous.
and Bisu's gamesense was lacking here and there, let's not forgot that
I woudn't take anything away from Fantasy , but yeah Bisu played pretty poorly ... First game stupid 2 base carrier build that got demolished . Second game basic scouting error ... Third game apply pressure without a good follow-up plan .... Bisu should have beated Fantasy at least on 1 map to assure the medusa game ... Maps weren't heavy imbalanced towards terran so there wasn't much of an excuse . Overall a pretty bad performance by Bisu ....
Stork won last OSL against Fantasy 2 of his wins were on chupung were Bisu did a retarded carrier build . I hope this proves once and for all that when you take out the fanboyism Stork and JangBi >>Bisu in PvT . They just have an aura of invincibility in the MU when they are playing at a decent level . Bisu althought he looked pretty damn invincible in the MU most of his games are on Medusa or vs bad or in a slump players excluding Flash . It might also be the case that the quality of TvP has been reducing for no logical reason . It seems like the only players that can TvP for dear life are Fantasy , Flash , Nada , and maybe Light and Hiya in WL . Of course Iris and Skyhigh are always a thread also , but i haven't seen a terran beat good protoss in a series since forever (excluding Bisu vs Fantasy ) . The good old days where Flash ForGG and even Mind were demolishing protoss seems to long ago .
Current Stork's PvT is not better than Bisu's PvT. Jangbi's PvT is. I don't think there is a huge gap between any of their skill levels the matchup. Not to defend Bisu, but sometimes people play poorly, or other people play really well. Of course that's a credit to Fantasy, and a knock on Bisu, but shit happens. Plus since it was match between teammates, it got even weirder, due to practice issues. Props to Fantasy, but I don't think you look at Bisu getting raped, and say his PvT is significantly worse than someone like Jangbi or Stork.
I don't think it's a stretch to say Samsung tosses are just a level above everyone else in the matchup. Both Jangbi and Stork inherently understand PvT better than anyone else. And since Jangbi has S-class mechanics to back up that knowledge, he has the best PvT in the world right now.
Stork is weird because he's really losing it recently in terms of control. Horrible large army control and generally bad micro. But in terms of understanding the MU and knows how to play on on terran favored maps, he is the best in the game. Although Much is up there too, although he doesn't get played anymore.
Bisu's PvT is basically good when the situation is advantageous or even. But he can't fight any uphill battles.
I don't know how you can say "Bisu can't fight uphill battles PvT". Sure he can. You remember his series vs Flash, in GOMs2? In particular the game on Chypong? That was an up-hill battle, no? Against Flash no less. You won't hear me trying to say that Bisu's PvT is as good as Jangbi's, but I don't think when Bisu goes 21-7 since Clubday MSL in PvT translates to "only good when the situation is advantageous". I'd call it damn good overall PvT.
On March 21 2009 00:18 DreaM)XeRO wrote: Please Fantasy on the PR next month PLEASEEE i dont think anyone could take a bo5 from Bisu let alone bisu on fire
Bisu may have been burning, but Fantasy seems to have discovered napalm...
His play in that series was ridiculous.
and Bisu's gamesense was lacking here and there, let's not forgot that
I woudn't take anything away from Fantasy , but yeah Bisu played pretty poorly ... First game stupid 2 base carrier build that got demolished . Second game basic scouting error ... Third game apply pressure without a good follow-up plan .... Bisu should have beated Fantasy at least on 1 map to assure the medusa game ... Maps weren't heavy imbalanced towards terran so there wasn't much of an excuse . Overall a pretty bad performance by Bisu ....
Stork won last OSL against Fantasy 2 of his wins were on chupung were Bisu did a retarded carrier build . I hope this proves once and for all that when you take out the fanboyism Stork and JangBi >>Bisu in PvT . They just have an aura of invincibility in the MU when they are playing at a decent level . Bisu althought he looked pretty damn invincible in the MU most of his games are on Medusa or vs bad or in a slump players excluding Flash . It might also be the case that the quality of TvP has been reducing for no logical reason . It seems like the only players that can TvP for dear life are Fantasy , Flash , Nada , and maybe Light and Hiya in WL . Of course Iris and Skyhigh are always a thread also , but i haven't seen a terran beat good protoss in a series since forever (excluding Bisu vs Fantasy ) . The good old days where Flash ForGG and even Mind were demolishing protoss seems to long ago .
Current Stork's PvT is not better than Bisu's PvT. Jangbi's PvT is. I don't think there is a huge gap between any of their skill levels the matchup. Not to defend Bisu, but sometimes people play poorly, or other people play really well. Of course that's a credit to Fantasy, and a knock on Bisu, but shit happens. Plus since it was match between teammates, it got even weirder, due to practice issues. Props to Fantasy, but I don't think you look at Bisu getting raped, and say his PvT is significantly worse than someone like Jangbi or Stork.
I don't think it's a stretch to say Samsung tosses are just a level above everyone else in the matchup. Both Jangbi and Stork inherently understand PvT better than anyone else. And since Jangbi has S-class mechanics to back up that knowledge, he has the best PvT in the world right now.
Stork is weird because he's really losing it recently in terms of control. Horrible large army control and generally bad micro. But in terms of understanding the MU and knows how to play on on terran favored maps, he is the best in the game. Although Much is up there too, although he doesn't get played anymore.
Bisu's PvT is basically good when the situation is advantageous or even. But he can't fight any uphill battles.
I don't know how you can say "Bisu can't fight uphill battles PvT". Sure he can. You remember his series vs Flash, in GOMs2? In particular the game on Chypong? That was an up-hill battle, no? Against Flash no less. You won't hear me trying to say that Bisu's PvT is as good as Jangbi's, but I don't think when Bisu goes 21-7 since Clubday MSL in PvT translates to "only good when the situation is advantageous". I'd call it damn good overall PvT.
You mean the one where Flash went for a 6 fac push which he handled horribly? I can't remember the details, but I believe I was wondering why Flash played so badly.
Edit: Was Bisu even in trouble that game? It started off standard if I'm not mistaken.
Example of toss fighting uphill battle would be like Stork playing Flash on Harmony where Flash was shelling his base for half the game. Or when Stork actually took out Nada on RH3 the PvT graveyard.
On March 21 2009 00:18 DreaM)XeRO wrote: Please Fantasy on the PR next month PLEASEEE i dont think anyone could take a bo5 from Bisu let alone bisu on fire
Bisu may have been burning, but Fantasy seems to have discovered napalm...
His play in that series was ridiculous.
and Bisu's gamesense was lacking here and there, let's not forgot that
I woudn't take anything away from Fantasy , but yeah Bisu played pretty poorly ... First game stupid 2 base carrier build that got demolished . Second game basic scouting error ... Third game apply pressure without a good follow-up plan .... Bisu should have beated Fantasy at least on 1 map to assure the medusa game ... Maps weren't heavy imbalanced towards terran so there wasn't much of an excuse . Overall a pretty bad performance by Bisu ....
Stork won last OSL against Fantasy 2 of his wins were on chupung were Bisu did a retarded carrier build . I hope this proves once and for all that when you take out the fanboyism Stork and JangBi >>Bisu in PvT . They just have an aura of invincibility in the MU when they are playing at a decent level . Bisu althought he looked pretty damn invincible in the MU most of his games are on Medusa or vs bad or in a slump players excluding Flash . It might also be the case that the quality of TvP has been reducing for no logical reason . It seems like the only players that can TvP for dear life are Fantasy , Flash , Nada , and maybe Light and Hiya in WL . Of course Iris and Skyhigh are always a thread also , but i haven't seen a terran beat good protoss in a series since forever (excluding Bisu vs Fantasy ) . The good old days where Flash ForGG and even Mind were demolishing protoss seems to long ago .
Current Stork's PvT is not better than Bisu's PvT. Jangbi's PvT is. I don't think there is a huge gap between any of their skill levels the matchup. Not to defend Bisu, but sometimes people play poorly, or other people play really well. Of course that's a credit to Fantasy, and a knock on Bisu, but shit happens. Plus since it was match between teammates, it got even weirder, due to practice issues. Props to Fantasy, but I don't think you look at Bisu getting raped, and say his PvT is significantly worse than someone like Jangbi or Stork.
I'm not saying Bisu is significantly worse , but Stork has always looked superior in PvT compared to Bisu . I'm sure as hell that if he played Fantasy again even if by a chance he lost he would've performed much better then Bisu did . If you go back and watch how badly Stork rolled Fantasy on chupung 2 times and come to see Bisu's games they were pretty bad imo .
On March 21 2009 00:18 DreaM)XeRO wrote: Please Fantasy on the PR next month PLEASEEE i dont think anyone could take a bo5 from Bisu let alone bisu on fire
Bisu may have been burning, but Fantasy seems to have discovered napalm...
His play in that series was ridiculous.
and Bisu's gamesense was lacking here and there, let's not forgot that
I woudn't take anything away from Fantasy , but yeah Bisu played pretty poorly ... First game stupid 2 base carrier build that got demolished . Second game basic scouting error ... Third game apply pressure without a good follow-up plan .... Bisu should have beated Fantasy at least on 1 map to assure the medusa game ... Maps weren't heavy imbalanced towards terran so there wasn't much of an excuse . Overall a pretty bad performance by Bisu ....
Stork won last OSL against Fantasy 2 of his wins were on chupung were Bisu did a retarded carrier build . I hope this proves once and for all that when you take out the fanboyism Stork and JangBi >>Bisu in PvT . They just have an aura of invincibility in the MU when they are playing at a decent level . Bisu althought he looked pretty damn invincible in the MU most of his games are on Medusa or vs bad or in a slump players excluding Flash . It might also be the case that the quality of TvP has been reducing for no logical reason . It seems like the only players that can TvP for dear life are Fantasy , Flash , Nada , and maybe Light and Hiya in WL . Of course Iris and Skyhigh are always a thread also , but i haven't seen a terran beat good protoss in a series since forever (excluding Bisu vs Fantasy ) . The good old days where Flash ForGG and even Mind were demolishing protoss seems to long ago .
Current Stork's PvT is not better than Bisu's PvT. Jangbi's PvT is. I don't think there is a huge gap between any of their skill levels the matchup. Not to defend Bisu, but sometimes people play poorly, or other people play really well. Of course that's a credit to Fantasy, and a knock on Bisu, but shit happens. Plus since it was match between teammates, it got even weirder, due to practice issues. Props to Fantasy, but I don't think you look at Bisu getting raped, and say his PvT is significantly worse than someone like Jangbi or Stork.
I'm not saying Bisu is significantly worse , but Stork has always looked superior in PvT compared to Bisu . I'm sure as hell that if he played Fantasy again even if by a chance he lost he would've performed much better then Bisu did . If you go back and watch how badly Stork rolled Fantasy on chupung 2 times and come to see Bisu's games they were pretty bad imo .
agreed. Bisu always played perfectly than his opponents more low level
I haven't read all comments, so forgive me if im wrong, but it seems like you're arguing if bisus pvt is awesome or not.
Well he was 21-3 vs terrans before fantasy and thats pretty awesome. 21-3, <---------- ever noobbashed on iccup and gotten those stats? :D His PvT has been looking as strong as the other top PvTers lately.
On March 21 2009 00:18 DreaM)XeRO wrote: Please Fantasy on the PR next month PLEASEEE i dont think anyone could take a bo5 from Bisu let alone bisu on fire
Bisu may have been burning, but Fantasy seems to have discovered napalm...
His play in that series was ridiculous.
and Bisu's gamesense was lacking here and there, let's not forgot that
I woudn't take anything away from Fantasy , but yeah Bisu played pretty poorly ... First game stupid 2 base carrier build that got demolished . Second game basic scouting error ... Third game apply pressure without a good follow-up plan .... Bisu should have beated Fantasy at least on 1 map to assure the medusa game ... Maps weren't heavy imbalanced towards terran so there wasn't much of an excuse . Overall a pretty bad performance by Bisu ....
Stork won last OSL against Fantasy 2 of his wins were on chupung were Bisu did a retarded carrier build . I hope this proves once and for all that when you take out the fanboyism Stork and JangBi >>Bisu in PvT . They just have an aura of invincibility in the MU when they are playing at a decent level . Bisu althought he looked pretty damn invincible in the MU most of his games are on Medusa or vs bad or in a slump players excluding Flash . It might also be the case that the quality of TvP has been reducing for no logical reason . It seems like the only players that can TvP for dear life are Fantasy , Flash , Nada , and maybe Light and Hiya in WL . Of course Iris and Skyhigh are always a thread also , but i haven't seen a terran beat good protoss in a series since forever (excluding Bisu vs Fantasy ) . The good old days where Flash ForGG and even Mind were demolishing protoss seems to long ago .
Current Stork's PvT is not better than Bisu's PvT. Jangbi's PvT is. I don't think there is a huge gap between any of their skill levels the matchup. Not to defend Bisu, but sometimes people play poorly, or other people play really well. Of course that's a credit to Fantasy, and a knock on Bisu, but shit happens. Plus since it was match between teammates, it got even weirder, due to practice issues. Props to Fantasy, but I don't think you look at Bisu getting raped, and say his PvT is significantly worse than someone like Jangbi or Stork.
I don't think it's a stretch to say Samsung tosses are just a level above everyone else in the matchup. Both Jangbi and Stork inherently understand PvT better than anyone else. And since Jangbi has S-class mechanics to back up that knowledge, he has the best PvT in the world right now.
Stork is weird because he's really losing it recently in terms of control. Horrible large army control and generally bad micro. But in terms of understanding the MU and knows how to play on on terran favored maps, he is the best in the game. Although Much is up there too, although he doesn't get played anymore.
Bisu's PvT is basically good when the situation is advantageous or even. But he can't fight any uphill battles.
I don't know how you can say "Bisu can't fight uphill battles PvT". Sure he can. You remember his series vs Flash, in GOMs2? In particular the game on Chypong? That was an up-hill battle, no? Against Flash no less. You won't hear me trying to say that Bisu's PvT is as good as Jangbi's, but I don't think when Bisu goes 21-7 since Clubday MSL in PvT translates to "only good when the situation is advantageous". I'd call it damn good overall PvT.
You mean the one where Flash went for a 6 fac push which he handled horribly? I can't remember the details, but I believe I was wondering why Flash played so badly.
In case you can't remember, the 6fac was supposed to kill him and it was a miracle he defended it.
On March 21 2009 09:40 Lockon Stratos wrote: The 3-0 wasn't a joke, so why would my statement be?
it's just in one bo5, wth
Flash didn't get any special treatment when he got knocked from both leagues, why should Bisu? If it was a close 3-2 the story might be different but a 3-0? Yea no there's no excuse. Way to waste the chance Backho gave you, get knocked out of OSL twice.
Me thinks Jaedong would take top spot depending on how he does on the WL playoffs vs KTF and his OSL semi-finals
followed by the MSL finalists in 2-3 (winner at 2)
Bisu and Flash at 4-5 respectively. Fantasy jumping in as high as 4? Hmm.. a wild shot, it might make sense given he's winning when it counts and his beating bisu 3-0...
On March 21 2009 09:40 Lockon Stratos wrote: The 3-0 wasn't a joke, so why would my statement be?
it's just in one bo5, wth
Flash didn't get any special treatment when he got knocked from both leagues, why should Bisu? If it was a close 3-2 the story might be different but a 3-0? Yea no there's no excuse. Way to waste the chance Backho gave you, get knocked out of OSL twice.
When Bisu previously and Flash most recently didn't get any special treatment,the things were different. Who would you place above Bisu just yet? Flash? He didn't do anything yet. I agree that Jd,if he doesn't fail against Hero and in the finals,Luxury should be above Bisu. But who else? Jangbi? He failed too. He lost in the MSL in an unimpressive fashion too. Fantasy? That can still be debated if he wins the OSL,but otherwise,Bisu's overall performance is still better at this point in time. Yeah,Bisu sucked in the semis,but most of the players didn't even get there. So why should he drop to 5? 4 at worst.
1. Jaedong 2. Lux 3. Bisu 4. JangBi 5. Flash 6. Fantasy -- has the potential to be anywhere between 3-5 to be honest BUT is coming from totally OFF the PR... and if he wins OSL finals especially over Jaedong I don't see how you could not have him at least up near 1st or 2nd... 3rd at worst place since he beat pretty much all of the top players in games or series. (Has quality wins over Flash, Bisu x3, Lux x2, + potentially Jaedong...).
Upcoming events that may affect: ~Jaedong vs. Lux... Jaedong keeps top spot if OSL win IMO. ~Lux/Jaedong outcome of KTF/oz ~Flash also has the chance to move himself up with KTF/oz
Bisu/JangBi both failed, but both do have other results besides failing far into MSL/OSL respectively (Bisu was 8-2 before getting 3-0 by fant & JangBi was 7-2 before Lux beat him in MSL finals).
Flash hasn't done much this month yet (only 3-2 with losses to fantasy and Much).
Yes, but if you look at the quality of his performance throughout the latter part of the OSL, he's very potent. Even if his opponent's played like ass, you still need skill to deliver the rape, and rape he did.
On March 21 2009 00:18 DreaM)XeRO wrote: Please Fantasy on the PR next month PLEASEEE i dont think anyone could take a bo5 from Bisu let alone bisu on fire
Bisu may have been burning, but Fantasy seems to have discovered napalm...
His play in that series was ridiculous.
and Bisu's gamesense was lacking here and there, let's not forgot that
I woudn't take anything away from Fantasy , but yeah Bisu played pretty poorly ... First game stupid 2 base carrier build that got demolished . Second game basic scouting error ... Third game apply pressure without a good follow-up plan .... Bisu should have beated Fantasy at least on 1 map to assure the medusa game ... Maps weren't heavy imbalanced towards terran so there wasn't much of an excuse . Overall a pretty bad performance by Bisu ....
Stork won last OSL against Fantasy 2 of his wins were on chupung were Bisu did a retarded carrier build . I hope this proves once and for all that when you take out the fanboyism Stork and JangBi >>Bisu in PvT . They just have an aura of invincibility in the MU when they are playing at a decent level . Bisu althought he looked pretty damn invincible in the MU most of his games are on Medusa or vs bad or in a slump players excluding Flash . It might also be the case that the quality of TvP has been reducing for no logical reason . It seems like the only players that can TvP for dear life are Fantasy , Flash , Nada , and maybe Light and Hiya in WL . Of course Iris and Skyhigh are always a thread also , but i haven't seen a terran beat good protoss in a series since forever (excluding Bisu vs Fantasy ) . The good old days where Flash ForGG and even Mind were demolishing protoss seems to long ago .
Current Stork's PvT is not better than Bisu's PvT. Jangbi's PvT is. I don't think there is a huge gap between any of their skill levels the matchup. Not to defend Bisu, but sometimes people play poorly, or other people play really well. Of course that's a credit to Fantasy, and a knock on Bisu, but shit happens. Plus since it was match between teammates, it got even weirder, due to practice issues. Props to Fantasy, but I don't think you look at Bisu getting raped, and say his PvT is significantly worse than someone like Jangbi or Stork.
I don't think it's a stretch to say Samsung tosses are just a level above everyone else in the matchup. Both Jangbi and Stork inherently understand PvT better than anyone else. And since Jangbi has S-class mechanics to back up that knowledge, he has the best PvT in the world right now.
Stork is weird because he's really losing it recently in terms of control. Horrible large army control and generally bad micro. But in terms of understanding the MU and knows how to play on on terran favored maps, he is the best in the game. Although Much is up there too, although he doesn't get played anymore.
Bisu's PvT is basically good when the situation is advantageous or even. But he can't fight any uphill battles.
I don't know how you can say "Bisu can't fight uphill battles PvT". Sure he can. You remember his series vs Flash, in GOMs2? In particular the game on Chypong? That was an up-hill battle, no? Against Flash no less. You won't hear me trying to say that Bisu's PvT is as good as Jangbi's, but I don't think when Bisu goes 21-7 since Clubday MSL in PvT translates to "only good when the situation is advantageous". I'd call it damn good overall PvT.
You mean the one where Flash went for a 6 fac push which he handled horribly? I can't remember the details, but I believe I was wondering why Flash played so badly.
Edit: Was Bisu even in trouble that game? It started off standard if I'm not mistaken.
Example of toss fighting uphill battle would be like Stork playing Flash on Harmony where Flash was shelling his base for half the game. Or when Stork actually took out Nada on RH3 the PvT graveyard.
Sure he was. Remember when Bisu scouted Flash with the obs, saw his build, and then right after Flash killed the observers, canceled the armory and added like 2 more facts? And then Bisu somehow Miraculously fought off the timing attack? Not to mention the map itself is T>P.
On March 21 2009 09:40 Lockon Stratos wrote: The 3-0 wasn't a joke, so why would my statement be?
it's just in one bo5, wth
Flash didn't get any special treatment when he got knocked from both leagues, why should Bisu? If it was a close 3-2 the story might be different but a 3-0? Yea no there's no excuse. Way to waste the chance Backho gave you, get knocked out of OSL twice.
When Bisu previously and Flash most recently didn't get any special treatment,the things were different. Who would you place above Bisu just yet? Flash? He didn't do anything yet. I agree that Jd,if he doesn't fail against Hero and in the finals,Luxury should be above Bisu. But who else? Jangbi? He failed too. He lost in the MSL in an unimpressive fashion too. Fantasy? That can still be debated if he wins the OSL,but otherwise,Bisu's overall performance is still better at this point in time. Yeah,Bisu sucked in the semis,but most of the players didn't even get there. So why should he drop to 5? 4 at worst.
bisu losing 3-0 will hurt him alot. poor performance can be excusable in a proleague game, but not in a semifinals match. yes, fantasy played really well, and that should be taken into account. but bisu just did not look like bisu that round. there's no way he can stay at the top after that. perhaps he'll still be in the top 3, but definitely not #1
I agree for now but there's still about two weeks to go (plus extra delay time, which I will just call "overtime") including the remainder of the OSL and a match against CJ. Plenty can happen in that time. Remember that Bisu got dropped to #5 because he lost to by.hero during the overtime.
On March 21 2009 09:40 Lockon Stratos wrote: The 3-0 wasn't a joke, so why would my statement be?
it's just in one bo5, wth
Flash didn't get any special treatment when he got knocked from both leagues, why should Bisu? If it was a close 3-2 the story might be different but a 3-0? Yea no there's no excuse. Way to waste the chance Backho gave you, get knocked out of OSL twice.
I wasn`t arguing about Bisu. But c`mon Fantasy can`t be #1!
Winner of OSL - #1 Jaedong (at least #2) Lux - #3 Fantasy (in case of winning OSL #1, otherwise #4) Bisu - #5 or #4 #6 some random CJ guy who performed well in the WL finals OR JangBi
On March 22 2009 20:19 disciple wrote: Winner of OSL - #1 Jaedong (at least #2) Lux - #3 Fantasy (in case of winning OSL #1, otherwise #4) Bisu - #5 or #4 #6 some random CJ guy who performed well in the WL finals OR JangBi
What about JangBi man i know he went 1 - 3 against Luxury and got another silver , but the maps were bad for protoss and he is still an excellent player . In anycase i think he should be above fantasy unless Fantasy wins the finals or plays spectacular games in it , because i think that JangBi is better then Fantasy .
Jaedong is #1 for me unless Jaedong drops the OSL and Lux All Kills in the upcoming ZvP show match. Jaedong's play is amazing, I am so happy to be following him right now.
Ah Flash please get your act together so we can have a real rivalry.
On March 22 2009 20:19 disciple wrote: Winner of OSL - #1 Jaedong (at least #2) Lux - #3 Fantasy (in case of winning OSL #1, otherwise #4) Bisu - #5 or #4 #6 some random CJ guy who performed well in the WL finals OR JangBi
What about JangBi man i know he went 1 - 3 against Luxury and got another silver , but the maps were bad for protoss and he is still an excellent player . In anycase i think he should be above fantasy unless Fantasy wins the finals or plays spectacular games in it , because i think that JangBi is better then Fantasy .
yep, true, dont drop jangbi too low, he only wants to beat Stork in the silver-contest too
EDIT: i wonder what will be Flash's rank? He pretty much dropped the ball every time it mattered for the past 2 months
On March 22 2009 20:19 disciple wrote: Winner of OSL - #1 Jaedong (at least #2) Lux - #3 Fantasy (in case of winning OSL #1, otherwise #4) Bisu - #5 or #4 #6 some random CJ guy who performed well in the WL finals OR JangBi
What about JangBi man i know he went 1 - 3 against Luxury and got another silver , but the maps were bad for protoss and he is still an excellent player . In anycase i think he should be above fantasy unless Fantasy wins the finals or plays spectacular games in it , because i think that JangBi is better then Fantasy .
Meh both JangBi and Bisu are blowing recently, but KTY contributed a hole lot to SKT's WL performance compared to JangBi. Fantasy is showing great skill in all MUs, its not only the series vs Bisu, but he came back from a game behind against lux in OSL, and managed to take out Flash in the playoff match, so the kid is really doing great. It just happened that lux got to play a semifinal in his best MU and then beat the choking JangBi on zerg friendly maps. Not that I'm discrediting him, he is actually doing very good, but fantasy versed harder opponents and all in all had a slightly better month than lux. But no doubt JD is the best player right now
Assuming Jaedong beats by.hero, I think he's #1 even if he loses to fantasy. But based on the series against KTF, it would take a serious drop in his play to lose to fantasy. No disrespect to fantasy, but Jaedong is playing absurd right now.
If Flash is even on the next power rank it'll just be because the top 5 won everything worth winning this month and blocked anyone else out.
I am the biggest Flash fan in the world and it really bums me out, but he's been playing stubborn and rigid. That needs to change. I still think he's the best player in the world mechanically, but man... let's hope he steps up his game soon.
Jaedong is playing amazingly well right now. There is no doubt that he is number 1. Only if he played really really slopy on the OSL... then maybe he could be number 2. Bisu, on the other hand, should be ranked much lower in my opinion. At least, 4th behind Jaedong, Luxury and Fantasy.
Edit: Also, I think we definitely should see by.hero on the top 10 this month.
I disagree with Bisu dropping that much. Yeah he got out of OSL because of Fantasy but teammate games are always unpredictable, they know their playing styles etc. Either way, one loss out of one league doesn't merit him dropping down to rank 5.
My current top 5 PR
1. Jaedong 2. Luxury 3. Bisu 4. Fantasy 5. Jangbi
Well, Jaedong is first because he single handedly broke down the three titans of KTF, and has had positive results since last month. As long as he doesn't lose to by.Hero and get kicked out of OSL (which he won't), he will go to OSL finals verses Fantasy. Someone who was 2nd place last month who performed excellent during the time when 1st place PR player does bad means the 2nd placed player goes up a slot logically.
Luxury, although he won MSL, his opponents he beat weren't exactly pure S class. Luxury even himself admitted that he still has a lot of catching up to do against Jaedong to represent the #1 Zerg player, and I'm sad that he can't become #1 in PR even though he won a league like other players in previous months.
Bisu, disappointing but dropped out of OSL. 3 losses from his teammate are bad but he's done so well lately that those 3 losses aren't influencing enough to drop him further down from #3.
Fantasy, he has been performing excellent this month. Actually he's been doing hotter than Lux, but I wanted to put Lux up there because he won a finals. Fantasy took down Flash recently, and took Lux out of OSL. Bisu out of MSL. I'm sure Fantasy can be ranked a little higher but rank 4 is the minimum for this guy. I'm a bit hesitant about him because he wasn't even in the top 10 last PR.
Jangbi, I feel sympathy for this guy for losing and him being depressed but he's not doing as hot as he was last month. He 3-0'd Stork, but according to Stork, Jangbi always beats him in practice games, so I really think he had a psychological edge over Stork to start with. Beating Nada in MSL is an achievement but its neither an underachievement or overachievement. Nada seems to be consistent but I don't regard him as S class gamer nowadays, he just plays well enough to qualify into leagues and gets torn up in them. Its been like this for a while now.
On March 22 2009 20:19 disciple wrote: Winner of OSL - #1 Jaedong (at least #2) Lux - #3 Fantasy (in case of winning OSL #1, otherwise #4) Bisu - #5 or #4 #6 some random CJ guy who performed well in the WL finals OR JangBi
On March 22 2009 20:19 disciple wrote: Winner of OSL - #1 Jaedong (at least #2) Lux - #3 Fantasy (in case of winning OSL #1, otherwise #4) Bisu - #5 or #4 #6 some random CJ guy who performed well in the WL finals OR JangBi
even if by.hero somehow wins?
sure just think, assuming he wins the title (he wont) he beated Bisu, Jaedong, Fantasy, Leta + random nonames to get it. JD might be first even than though, i dont know...
On March 23 2009 13:24 Harem wrote: AzureEye: Did you even watch Jangbi vs Nada or Stork?
Yup I did, and I know Jangbi dominated. I'm not arguing about that fact. Its just that beating a practice partner that you always beat in practice and outdated ex-bonjwa is not as impressive as it could be, which is what i'm saying. Well, okay, I gotta give Jangbi props for beating Stork in PvP but any S class gamer would not lose in a BO5 to Nada currently.
Then you obviously didnt watch the game OR have no clue what so ever..
NaDa played pretty amazing. Almost as good as a Flash..
Sorry but Jangbis win against NaDa is nothing that you can take for granted. Not after seeing how the games turned out and what a threat NaDa had been...
On March 24 2009 04:03 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Then you obviously didnt watch the game OR have no clue what so ever..
NaDa played pretty amazing. Almost as good as a Flash..
Sorry but Jangbis win against NaDa is nothing that you can take for granted. Not after seeing how the games turned out and what a threat NaDa had been...
I second that, i think there is no protoss on the world who could have taken those 2 games against Nada on Byzantium and Destination. Moreover, i dont really think anyone else could have taken the 5th game from him.
On March 24 2009 04:03 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Then you obviously didnt watch the game OR have no clue what so ever..
NaDa played pretty amazing. Almost as good as a Flash..
Sorry but Jangbis win against NaDa is nothing that you can take for granted. Not after seeing how the games turned out and what a threat NaDa had been...
game 1 was better than any game Flash has ever played, and I say that as a big fan of both players and as a Terran player
#2. hmmm id have to give it to luxury. good job on msl, your matches against leta were awesome.
#3 fantasy: the smack down you laid on bisu was surreal~ plus i believe your walk to the finals was impressive, going through players like by.hero, leta, BISU and lux~
#4 jangbi his games were nada were intense. if it wasn't jangbi, nada would have advanced ~ plus he dominated stork who is also amazing at p v p. its a shame he lost to lux, but i was rooting for lux so~
#5 bisu. my god, what happened? you were simply dominating for the whole month, than comes where it matters the most. you lost in proleague against KTF. and you cannot blame snipers and map balances, we saw what jaedong doesnt matter the map or the competition... no excuses. and the osl. you didnt play bad.. fantasy was just that much more prepared. did you underestmate him? practicing for proleague? i dunno, but you fell apart where people NEEDED you to perform.
#6 by.hero i love your play, i love your z v p, you showed you can z v t... however, your luck ran dry when you had to go up against the god of z v z, if jaedong wasn't in this starleague, i am 99% sure you could have walked the royal road~ too bad stork didn't take him out for you.
#7 nada.... i hate you so much for robbing anytime of his 2nd osl gold... but my god that game 1 between you and jangbi.. holy shit! you played spectacular, if it was any other toss.. i am sure you could have made the finals... however, jangbi is a fucking beast in that matchup, you got cheesed twice but hey, i am hoping that you bring back that strong play, or better yet transfer your energy to savior for his reemergence.
#8 Stork... he made it pretty far in both leagues, just to crash and burn. ahhhhh stork stork stork... i like you alot, but you just were not on fire like you were last season... oh well, blame it on the osl curse!
#9-10 + cbnc eh, cant think of anyone... just stick hiya, flash, zero and whoever else, not really that important
So uh........my name is Skyhigh and I denied a JD all kill and won WL finals for my entire team. I still love you Jaedong. Skyhigh for PR!!!! At least #10.
So uh........my name is Skyhigh and I denied a JD all kill and won WL finals for my entire team. I still love you Jaedong. Skyhigh for PR!!!! At least #10.
So uh........my name is Skyhigh and I denied a JD all kill and won WL finals for my entire team. I still love you Jaedong. Skyhigh for PR!!!! At least #10.
Props to Skyhigh for actually denying all kill and reverse all kill but beating 2 low B rank Protoss and a failed 5 Pool is not that impressive. The only impressive part was his game verse Hiya and his ability to withstand the team's pressure. I give him credit for that. He just outplayed and drained Hiya's econ that game.
I admire Jaedong for 3-0'ing but his decision to go 5 pool was bad and decent at the same time. Bad decision because 5 Pool is easily blocked by imba 60 life scvs with 1 marine. Decent decision because Skyhigh was probably studying Jaedong to try to take him out and Jaedong would have won if Skyhigh did his usual cheese. If he lost the game, he relied on any of his teammates to at least scrape up 1 win for him.
But seriously, Oz is nothing anymore without Jaedong. Hiya has good WL performance results lately but we need ForGG/Anytime back to Oz. If Jaedong dies, Oz dies.
Make a new team with Jaedong, Bisu, Flash, and Stork on the lineup. Imba team imo
On March 29 2009 17:31 jodogohoo wrote: skyhigh for #6
Impressive performance last night due to preassure etc but ranking him #6 for beating a "macro 5pool" 2 bad protosses and 1 mediocre tvt isn't really justifying a 6th rank..
However he did play good and I think he deserves a 10th spot and if he continues to play good he might climb.
Spear may be a mediocre protoss (actually, I think he is rather lower than that, but in any case...) but he should not have been dominated that badly on that map.
SkyHigh played amazingly well in the most high pressure situation I can imagine in progaming, he deserves major credit - and I think higher than the tenth spot in the power rank.
On March 28 2009 07:28 deathgodtoss wrote: jaedong #1, there should be no questions
#2. hmmm id have to give it to luxury. good job on msl, your matches against leta were awesome.
#3 fantasy: the smack down you laid on bisu was surreal~ plus i believe your walk to the finals was impressive, going through players like by.hero, leta, BISU and lux~
#4 jangbi his games were nada were intense. if it wasn't jangbi, nada would have advanced ~ plus he dominated stork who is also amazing at p v p. its a shame he lost to lux, but i was rooting for lux so~
#5 bisu. my god, what happened? you were simply dominating for the whole month, than comes where it matters the most. you lost in proleague against KTF. and you cannot blame snipers and map balances, we saw what jaedong doesnt matter the map or the competition... no excuses. and the osl. you didnt play bad.. fantasy was just that much more prepared. did you underestmate him? practicing for proleague? i dunno, but you fell apart where people NEEDED you to perform.
#6 by.hero i love your play, i love your z v p, you showed you can z v t... however, your luck ran dry when you had to go up against the god of z v z, if jaedong wasn't in this starleague, i am 99% sure you could have walked the royal road~ too bad stork didn't take him out for you.
#7 nada.... i hate you so much for robbing anytime of his 2nd osl gold... but my god that game 1 between you and jangbi.. holy shit! you played spectacular, if it was any other toss.. i am sure you could have made the finals... however, jangbi is a fucking beast in that matchup, you got cheesed twice but hey, i am hoping that you bring back that strong play, or better yet transfer your energy to savior for his reemergence.
#8 Stork... he made it pretty far in both leagues, just to crash and burn. ahhhhh stork stork stork... i like you alot, but you just were not on fire like you were last season... oh well, blame it on the osl curse!
#9-10 + cbnc eh, cant think of anyone... just stick hiya, flash, zero and whoever else, not really that important
needs more SkyHigh. Also I dunno if it should count for anything but I was happy to see Stork almost all kill the Zerg all-stars when Bisu and Jangbi couldn't put a win up, so I def. think stork should be on the power rank 8's probably not a bad spot.
On March 24 2009 04:03 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Then you obviously didnt watch the game OR have no clue what so ever..
NaDa played pretty amazing. Almost as good as a Flash..
Sorry but Jangbis win against NaDa is nothing that you can take for granted. Not after seeing how the games turned out and what a threat NaDa had been...
game 1 was better than any game Flash has ever played, and I say that as a big fan of both players and as a Terran player
I dunno about that... this play was pretty awesome.
On March 28 2009 07:28 deathgodtoss wrote:#5 bisu. my god, what happened? you were simply dominating for the whole month, than comes where it matters the most. you lost in proleague against KTF. and you cannot blame snipers and map balances, we saw what jaedong doesnt matter the map or the competition... no excuses. and the osl. you didnt play bad.. fantasy was just that much more prepared. did you underestmate him? practicing for proleague? i dunno, but you fell apart where people NEEDED you to perform.
i dunno, am i the only one who thinks it is more difficult for a protoss to overcome map imbalance than zerg, due to stark difference in the amount of options they have? protoss are almost forced to always play the same versus zerg, while zerg on the other hand have many options to turn to when standard vs standard is imbalanced.
t>p maps p can proxy gates, proxy robo, proxy dt, nex first, dt drop... vs z they can... proxy gates, 2 gate, 1 gate, fe.
and maybe the units too, jaedong mutas dont really care what map they are on. toss has storms and shuttles where player skill can make a real difference i guess? shuttles do give your opponent a lot of say in how effective they are though, good hydras are good.
i could be wrong, but it seems like you still get a little more value out of your own skill on imbalanced maps for zerg compared to protoss.
On March 28 2009 07:28 deathgodtoss wrote:#5 bisu. my god, what happened? you were simply dominating for the whole month, than comes where it matters the most. you lost in proleague against KTF. and you cannot blame snipers and map balances, we saw what jaedong doesnt matter the map or the competition... no excuses. and the osl. you didnt play bad.. fantasy was just that much more prepared. did you underestmate him? practicing for proleague? i dunno, but you fell apart where people NEEDED you to perform.
i dunno, am i the only one who thinks it is more difficult for a protoss to overcome map imbalance than zerg, due to stark difference in the amount of options they have? protoss are almost forced to always play the same versus zerg, while zerg on the other hand have many options to turn to when standard vs standard is imbalanced.
t>p maps p can proxy gates, proxy robo, proxy dt, nex first, dt drop... vs z they can... proxy gates, 2 gate, 1 gate, fe.
and maybe the units too, jaedong mutas dont really care what map they are on. toss has storms and shuttles where player skill can make a real difference i guess? shuttles do give your opponent a lot of say in how effective they are though, good hydras are good.
i could be wrong, but it seems like you still get a little more value out of your own skill on imbalanced maps for zerg compared to protoss.
You have a wrong concept about Z>P maps. You think those maps are favoring zergs which have a natural wich is very hard to cover with cannons. That's true, but it's only one reason, and i think not even the most important one. Maybe the most important factor is the mineral/gas proportion. If a zerg can secure 3 gas base relatevly early, while the toss is on 2 base and there arent enough mineral patches the Zerg is already in a good position.
Other factors are how difficult is to doomdrop the toss' main, wether the zergs can take advantage of their mobility, wheter is enough place to flank, wheter are positions which can be hold easely with storms, etc....
I would pay alot of money to see a FPVOD from Jaedongs perspective vs Iris. That was extremely sick shit. He defies any law. The starcraft he is playing at his absolute best is beyond godly.
Jaedong should be #1 IMO, but I don't think Bisu should really drop down to #5, especially since his loss was late season. If the OSL was still how it used to be, Bisu would be playing for 3rd place in the OSL right now, which isn't a bad place to finish at all (3rd place games don't exist anymore, so its a meh point). He played a really good game vs 815 in WL playoffs, and then got gayed on Destination. Fantasy 3-0ing him was really bad, and IMO that would be the only reason someone could use for dropping Bisu that far. I personally think that maps, and the fact it was a game between teammates make the loss not as sever, but getting raped 3-0 is bad regardless. But then Bisu all-killed the Terran Allstar team the other day.
He shouldn't be #1 anymore, but I think he should still remain at least in the top 3.
1. Jaedong. Go look at the TLPD list of games, and then try to deny this with a straight face. 2. Luxury. MSL champion. I thought he played well in this MSL. 3. Jangbi. He played amazing to get to the MSL finals, but lost when it really counted. But I havn't given up hope on him yet. If it weren't for him, Nada might be holding his 4th MSL trophy right now. 4. Fantasy. He played very well in the OSL semis imo, he might be ranked higher if he manages to win the OSL. 5. Bisu. The all-kill vs Terran All-stars redeemed you from that OSL semifinal buddy. However, in terms of skill, I think Bisu is at least as good as Jangbi, if not better. He's just not performing to his maximum potential when it matters. 6. Stork. He is the only person other than Luxury to make the quarterfinal of both leagues. He got knocked out by the #1 and #3 of my PR, which is no shame. 7. Flash. He hasn't been great lately, but I still think he is the best Terran in the world (skill-wise, not performance-wise) 8. by.herO. Another semifinalist who got 3-0'd. I thought he showed some great stuff before the semifinal. 9. Skyhigh. WTF. 10. Zero. Last semifinalist who got 3-0'd. CNBC: Hiya, Iris, July, Savior
On March 28 2009 07:28 deathgodtoss wrote: jaedong #1, there should be no questions
#2. hmmm id have to give it to luxury. good job on msl, your matches against leta were awesome.
#3 fantasy: the smack down you laid on bisu was surreal~ plus i believe your walk to the finals was impressive, going through players like by.hero, leta, BISU and lux~
#4 jangbi his games were nada were intense. if it wasn't jangbi, nada would have advanced ~ plus he dominated stork who is also amazing at p v p. its a shame he lost to lux, but i was rooting for lux so~
#5 bisu. my god, what happened? you were simply dominating for the whole month, than comes where it matters the most. you lost in proleague against KTF. and you cannot blame snipers and map balances, we saw what jaedong doesnt matter the map or the competition... no excuses. and the osl. you didnt play bad.. fantasy was just that much more prepared. did you underestmate him? practicing for proleague? i dunno, but you fell apart where people NEEDED you to perform.
#6 by.hero i love your play, i love your z v p, you showed you can z v t... however, your luck ran dry when you had to go up against the god of z v z, if jaedong wasn't in this starleague, i am 99% sure you could have walked the royal road~ too bad stork didn't take him out for you.
#7 nada.... i hate you so much for robbing anytime of his 2nd osl gold... but my god that game 1 between you and jangbi.. holy shit! you played spectacular, if it was any other toss.. i am sure you could have made the finals... however, jangbi is a fucking beast in that matchup, you got cheesed twice but hey, i am hoping that you bring back that strong play, or better yet transfer your energy to savior for his reemergence.
#8 Stork... he made it pretty far in both leagues, just to crash and burn. ahhhhh stork stork stork... i like you alot, but you just were not on fire like you were last season... oh well, blame it on the osl curse!
#9-10 + cbnc eh, cant think of anyone... just stick hiya, flash, zero and whoever else, not really that important
needs more SkyHigh. Also I dunno if it should count for anything but I was happy to see Stork almost all kill the Zerg all-stars when Bisu and Jangbi couldn't put a win up, so I def. think stork should be on the power rank 8's probably not a bad spot.
On March 31 2009 08:13 Sentenal wrote: Jaedong should be #1 IMO, but I don't think Bisu should really drop down to #5, especially since his loss was late season. If the OSL was still how it used to be, Bisu would be playing for 3rd place in the OSL right now, which isn't a bad place to finish at all (3rd place games don't exist anymore, so its a meh point). He played a really good game vs 815 in WL playoffs, and then got gayed on Destination. Fantasy 3-0ing him was really bad, and IMO that would be the only reason someone could use for dropping Bisu that far. I personally think that maps, and the fact it was a game between teammates make the loss not as sever, but getting raped 3-0 is bad regardless. But then Bisu all-killed the Terran Allstar team the other day.
He shouldn't be #1 anymore, but I think he should still remain at least in the top 3.
bisu shouldn't have even been in the osl, thanks to backho's bad back, he muscled his way in. for that, he was given great ranks last month, when he was playing like a beast~ unfortunately, right now, when it matters the most, he is not. the game against 815, the coaches even said was a gimme. they were planning on hoejja as the bisu sniper, and they succeeded (epic game though, i was throughly impressed by both players) and dropping out of the only league he was in, losing in proleague is the detriments against him. also, the people above him deserve their places. jaedong is a monster, a starcraft god, and if he just played straight up instead of 5 pool, i think he coulda all killed cj... but newayz i am digressing. luxury won the msl, he defintly deserves a spot at number 2, his play has been consistent... somethign that i never expceted out of him. fantasy deserved number 3 spot. he is playing fantastic in the osl, going through ridiculous opponents along the way, and simply outclassing them. jangbi made it to the finals. he played fantastic games up until that point. he was the only winning player on samsung team. the only thing i can fault him for is falling apart in the MSL finals, but i figure that is what samsung players do, keep the silver industry alive~.
when flash dropped out of both leagues, he dropped quick.. even though bisu played well in the all stars event, i just cant justify it in my mind to place him over 2 osl finalists who are playing amazing, msl winner who played well and had great bo5s, msl finalists who went through some good bo5s. bisu.... he killed his teammate best, who is in a huge slump. he got knocked out the first bo5 he got into. he played well the previous month, but the power rank is about ability right now.
Jangbi had such an easy road to the MSL finals, and had to cheese Nada out of his way to make it. And then he got raped by Luxury. This last MSL has been one of the most un-impressive I've ever seen. I don't see any reason why Jangbi should be above Bisu. His team didn't even make WL Playoffs, while Bisu practically carried his team there.
Fantasy played great vs Bisu. Hes probably going to be raped by Jaedong, though. A 3-0 win vs Bisu isn't enough to put someone in the top 3.
When will people stop spewing shit about Bisu's OSL WildCard qualification and come to terms with the fact that he had to go through a more rigorous bracket to enter the way he did than anyone else? Jesus Christ.
On March 31 2009 14:47 fanatacist wrote: When will people stop spewing shit about Bisu's OSL WildCard qualification and come to terms with the fact that he had to go through a more rigorous bracket to enter the way he did than anyone else? Jesus Christ.
On March 31 2009 08:13 Sentenal wrote: Jaedong should be #1 IMO, but I don't think Bisu should really drop down to #5, especially since his loss was late season. If the OSL was still how it used to be, Bisu would be playing for 3rd place in the OSL right now, which isn't a bad place to finish at all (3rd place games don't exist anymore, so its a meh point). He played a really good game vs 815 in WL playoffs, and then got gayed on Destination. Fantasy 3-0ing him was really bad, and IMO that would be the only reason someone could use for dropping Bisu that far. I personally think that maps, and the fact it was a game between teammates make the loss not as sever, but getting raped 3-0 is bad regardless. But then Bisu all-killed the Terran Allstar team the other day.
He shouldn't be #1 anymore, but I think he should still remain at least in the top 3.
well, we don`t know if he would've won against by.hero to obtain the 3rd position
On March 31 2009 08:13 Sentenal wrote: Jaedong should be #1 IMO, but I don't think Bisu should really drop down to #5, especially since his loss was late season. If the OSL was still how it used to be, Bisu would be playing for 3rd place in the OSL right now, which isn't a bad place to finish at all (3rd place games don't exist anymore, so its a meh point). He played a really good game vs 815 in WL playoffs, and then got gayed on Destination. Fantasy 3-0ing him was really bad, and IMO that would be the only reason someone could use for dropping Bisu that far. I personally think that maps, and the fact it was a game between teammates make the loss not as sever, but getting raped 3-0 is bad regardless. But then Bisu all-killed the Terran Allstar team the other day.
He shouldn't be #1 anymore, but I think he should still remain at least in the top 3.
well, we don`t know if he would've won against by.hero to obtain the 3rd position
that's right hero has his number, and incredible fast hands, i'm looking forward for him, could he be on the PR this month?
On March 31 2009 08:13 Sentenal wrote: Jaedong should be #1 IMO, but I don't think Bisu should really drop down to #5, especially since his loss was late season. If the OSL was still how it used to be, Bisu would be playing for 3rd place in the OSL right now, which isn't a bad place to finish at all (3rd place games don't exist anymore, so its a meh point). He played a really good game vs 815 in WL playoffs, and then got gayed on Destination. Fantasy 3-0ing him was really bad, and IMO that would be the only reason someone could use for dropping Bisu that far. I personally think that maps, and the fact it was a game between teammates make the loss not as sever, but getting raped 3-0 is bad regardless. But then Bisu all-killed the Terran Allstar team the other day.
He shouldn't be #1 anymore, but I think he should still remain at least in the top 3.
well, we don`t know if he would've won against by.hero to obtain the 3rd position
that's right hero has his number, and incredible fast hands, i'm looking forward for him, could he be on the PR this month?
I don't think his run was that impressive and apm isn't everything, this series to me would be the deciding factor between PR or no PR.
I find it hilarious when people say "if only Jaedong didn't five pool" he woulda all-killed. Jaedong plays those aggressive openings as much as any zerg out there; it's part of his style of play (with just more wins than losses from those builds). Personally I was thrilled watching those games--the most exciting series I watched since maybe Bisu Flash in OSL semis. And I'm glad that the Winners League didn't end on a five pool.
Considering powerrank should also be a somewhat accurate ranking of the strongest players atm, putting bisu anywhere below top 3 would be just wrong. He obviously had an off day vs fantasy and fantasy played really well. He wins almost everything, then have a bad day and lose some games, then start winning again. Imo it would be too harsh even lowering him 2 spots.
His records speak for themselves, and his latest showdowns vs the best terrans and the best zerg indicates that he's still the best protoss and definately top 2 or 3 in my book atleast, with Jaedong above him.
On March 31 2009 08:13 Sentenal wrote: Jaedong should be #1 IMO, but I don't think Bisu should really drop down to #5, especially since his loss was late season. If the OSL was still how it used to be, Bisu would be playing for 3rd place in the OSL right now, which isn't a bad place to finish at all (3rd place games don't exist anymore, so its a meh point). He played a really good game vs 815 in WL playoffs, and then got gayed on Destination. Fantasy 3-0ing him was really bad, and IMO that would be the only reason someone could use for dropping Bisu that far. I personally think that maps, and the fact it was a game between teammates make the loss not as sever, but getting raped 3-0 is bad regardless. But then Bisu all-killed the Terran Allstar team the other day.
He shouldn't be #1 anymore, but I think he should still remain at least in the top 3.
well, we don`t know if he would've won against by.hero to obtain the 3rd position
True, but at least he would have had the chance to play for the 3rd position. Basically my point was that a 3rd or 4th place finish in the OSL isn't that bad.
On March 31 2009 08:13 Sentenal wrote: Jaedong should be #1 IMO, but I don't think Bisu should really drop down to #5, especially since his loss was late season. If the OSL was still how it used to be, Bisu would be playing for 3rd place in the OSL right now, which isn't a bad place to finish at all (3rd place games don't exist anymore, so its a meh point). He played a really good game vs 815 in WL playoffs, and then got gayed on Destination. Fantasy 3-0ing him was really bad, and IMO that would be the only reason someone could use for dropping Bisu that far. I personally think that maps, and the fact it was a game between teammates make the loss not as sever, but getting raped 3-0 is bad regardless. But then Bisu all-killed the Terran Allstar team the other day.
He shouldn't be #1 anymore, but I think he should still remain at least in the top 3.
well, we don`t know if he would've won against by.hero to obtain the 3rd position
True, but at least he would have had the chance to play for the 3rd position. Basically my point was that a 3rd or 4th place finish in the OSL isn't that bad.
well he is top4 even without the 3rd place finals ^^ and yeah, Top4 ain`t bad and I also agree with what Stylish said, bisu is still kickin` asses.
On April 01 2009 02:21 StylishVODs wrote: Considering powerrank should also be a somewhat accurate ranking of the strongest players atm, putting bisu anywhere below top 3 would be just wrong. He obviously had an off day vs fantasy and fantasy played really well. He wins almost everything, then have a bad day and lose some games, then start winning again. Imo it would be too harsh even lowering him 2 spots.
His records speak for themselves, and his latest showdowns vs the best terrans and the best zerg indicates that he's still the best protoss and definately top 2 or 3 in my book atleast, with Jaedong above him.
The strongest players don't exit the league 0 - 3 and fail in WL . Jaedong and Luxury should be #1 and # 2 , after that you can shuffle Fantasy/JangBi/Bisu . I think Fantasy should be # 3 , because he still has something to prove . After that Bisu , because he performed well in the special event against terrans , not that JangBi wouldn't have demolished them , but still props to Bisu .
On April 01 2009 02:21 StylishVODs wrote: Considering powerrank should also be a somewhat accurate ranking of the strongest players atm, putting bisu anywhere below top 3 would be just wrong. He obviously had an off day vs fantasy and fantasy played really well. He wins almost everything, then have a bad day and lose some games, then start winning again. Imo it would be too harsh even lowering him 2 spots.
His records speak for themselves, and his latest showdowns vs the best terrans and the best zerg indicates that he's still the best protoss and definately top 2 or 3 in my book atleast, with Jaedong above him.
The strongest players don't exit the league 0 - 3 and fail in WL . Jaedong and Luxury should be #1 and # 2 , after that you can shuffle Fantasy/JangBi/Bisu . I think Fantasy should be # 3 , because he still has something to prove . After that Bisu , because he performed well in the special event against terrans , not that JangBi wouldn't have demolished them , but still props to Bisu .
So a player who is owning just about everyone is not allowed to have one single day off? Thats silly.
"hey im luxury, im better than bisu right now" 1st april joke imo
Only reason jaedong should be over him is because he's in godmode right now. Bisu is going from one finals to another in mutliple leagues and getting all-kills here and there in other events. Also I wouldn't call his performance for march's winnerleague is a fail.
On April 01 2009 02:21 StylishVODs wrote: Considering powerrank should also be a somewhat accurate ranking of the strongest players atm, putting bisu anywhere below top 3 would be just wrong. He obviously had an off day vs fantasy and fantasy played really well. He wins almost everything, then have a bad day and lose some games, then start winning again. Imo it would be too harsh even lowering him 2 spots.
His records speak for themselves, and his latest showdowns vs the best terrans and the best zerg indicates that he's still the best protoss and definately top 2 or 3 in my book atleast, with Jaedong above him.
The strongest players don't exit the league 0 - 3 and fail in WL . Jaedong and Luxury should be #1 and # 2 , after that you can shuffle Fantasy/JangBi/Bisu . I think Fantasy should be # 3 , because he still has something to prove . After that Bisu , because he performed well in the special event against terrans , not that JangBi wouldn't have demolished them , but still props to Bisu .
Just because Bisu lost 0-3 to a Terran teammate doesn't mean that much
Yes, he lost one sidely to a set but he's done so well in WL and other sets that this hardly should bring down his rank
On April 01 2009 02:21 StylishVODs wrote: Considering powerrank should also be a somewhat accurate ranking of the strongest players atm, putting bisu anywhere below top 3 would be just wrong. He obviously had an off day vs fantasy and fantasy played really well. He wins almost everything, then have a bad day and lose some games, then start winning again. Imo it would be too harsh even lowering him 2 spots.
His records speak for themselves, and his latest showdowns vs the best terrans and the best zerg indicates that he's still the best protoss and definately top 2 or 3 in my book atleast, with Jaedong above him.
The strongest players don't exit the league 0 - 3 and fail in WL . Jaedong and Luxury should be #1 and # 2 , after that you can shuffle Fantasy/JangBi/Bisu . I think Fantasy should be # 3 , because he still has something to prove . After that Bisu , because he performed well in the special event against terrans , not that JangBi wouldn't have demolished them , but still props to Bisu .
Even as a Bisu fan, I have to agree that he does not deserve the number 1 spot for April. His performance lately has been, for the most part, really lackluster with his early elimination in the MSL and his defeat against Hoejja in the Winner`s League. His failure to reach the OSL finals represents additional salt to the wound for many fans who were hoping for an epic finals between him and Jaedong.
Overall, Bisu had a chance to prove his Bonjwa (in the making) status and he failed. For this, he does not deserve a high spot on the Power Rank. However, I think it would be a bit much to completely remove him from the Power Rank.
On April 01 2009 02:21 StylishVODs wrote: Considering powerrank should also be a somewhat accurate ranking of the strongest players atm, putting bisu anywhere below top 3 would be just wrong. He obviously had an off day vs fantasy and fantasy played really well. He wins almost everything, then have a bad day and lose some games, then start winning again. Imo it would be too harsh even lowering him 2 spots.
His records speak for themselves, and his latest showdowns vs the best terrans and the best zerg indicates that he's still the best protoss and definately top 2 or 3 in my book atleast, with Jaedong above him.
The strongest players don't exit the league 0 - 3 and fail in WL . Jaedong and Luxury should be #1 and # 2 , after that you can shuffle Fantasy/JangBi/Bisu . I think Fantasy should be # 3 , because he still has something to prove . After that Bisu , because he performed well in the special event against terrans , not that JangBi wouldn't have demolished them , but still props to Bisu .
More Zerg bias please.
Because they don't deserve it? Jaedong is #1 Elo by 60 points right now, putting on one of the most dominating performances ever. Luxury is your MSL champion, maybe he hasn't played a lot of games, but what more can you ask of him?
Bisu failed hard in the OSL. Make any excuse you want, but he got worked. His performance has been shaky lately and he shouldn't get a free pass just because he's popular.
Spots 4 and 5 are a tough call between JangBi and Fantasy.
On April 01 2009 02:21 StylishVODs wrote: Considering powerrank should also be a somewhat accurate ranking of the strongest players atm, putting bisu anywhere below top 3 would be just wrong. He obviously had an off day vs fantasy and fantasy played really well. He wins almost everything, then have a bad day and lose some games, then start winning again. Imo it would be too harsh even lowering him 2 spots.
His records speak for themselves, and his latest showdowns vs the best terrans and the best zerg indicates that he's still the best protoss and definately top 2 or 3 in my book atleast, with Jaedong above him.
The strongest players don't exit the league 0 - 3 and fail in WL . Jaedong and Luxury should be #1 and # 2 , after that you can shuffle Fantasy/JangBi/Bisu . I think Fantasy should be # 3 , because he still has something to prove . After that Bisu , because he performed well in the special event against terrans , not that JangBi wouldn't have demolished them , but still props to Bisu .
More Zerg bias please.
Because they don't deserve it? Jaedong is #1 Elo by 60 points right now, putting on one of the most dominating performances ever. Luxury is your MSL champion, maybe he hasn't played a lot of games, but what more can you ask of him?
Bisu failed hard in the OSL. Make any excuse you want, but he got worked. His performance has been shaky lately and he shouldn't get a free pass just because he's popular.
Spots 4 and 5 are a tough call between JangBi and Fantasy.
Jaedong I can agree, Luxury not so much. You think Lux can take Bisu or Flash Bo5?
On April 01 2009 02:21 StylishVODs wrote: Considering powerrank should also be a somewhat accurate ranking of the strongest players atm, putting bisu anywhere below top 3 would be just wrong. He obviously had an off day vs fantasy and fantasy played really well. He wins almost everything, then have a bad day and lose some games, then start winning again. Imo it would be too harsh even lowering him 2 spots.
His records speak for themselves, and his latest showdowns vs the best terrans and the best zerg indicates that he's still the best protoss and definately top 2 or 3 in my book atleast, with Jaedong above him.
The strongest players don't exit the league 0 - 3 and fail in WL . Jaedong and Luxury should be #1 and # 2 , after that you can shuffle Fantasy/JangBi/Bisu . I think Fantasy should be # 3 , because he still has something to prove . After that Bisu , because he performed well in the special event against terrans , not that JangBi wouldn't have demolished them , but still props to Bisu .
More Zerg bias please.
Because they don't deserve it? Jaedong is #1 Elo by 60 points right now, putting on one of the most dominating performances ever. Luxury is your MSL champion, maybe he hasn't played a lot of games, but what more can you ask of him?
Bisu failed hard in the OSL. Make any excuse you want, but he got worked. His performance has been shaky lately and he shouldn't get a free pass just because he's popular.
Spots 4 and 5 are a tough call between JangBi and Fantasy.
Jaedong I can agree, Luxury not so much. You think Lux can take Bisu or Flash Bo5?
i don't think that a lux vs flash bo5 would have flash as a heavy favorite. i might be a bit ignorant as a lux fan here, but, in terms of skill (i.e. leaving out the effect of playing someone from your own team), i think lux is actually the slight favorite. probably not against bisu, but that wouldnt' be horribly one-sided either
On April 01 2009 02:21 StylishVODs wrote: Considering powerrank should also be a somewhat accurate ranking of the strongest players atm, putting bisu anywhere below top 3 would be just wrong. He obviously had an off day vs fantasy and fantasy played really well. He wins almost everything, then have a bad day and lose some games, then start winning again. Imo it would be too harsh even lowering him 2 spots.
His records speak for themselves, and his latest showdowns vs the best terrans and the best zerg indicates that he's still the best protoss and definately top 2 or 3 in my book atleast, with Jaedong above him.
The strongest players don't exit the league 0 - 3 and fail in WL . Jaedong and Luxury should be #1 and # 2 , after that you can shuffle Fantasy/JangBi/Bisu . I think Fantasy should be # 3 , because he still has something to prove . After that Bisu , because he performed well in the special event against terrans , not that JangBi wouldn't have demolished them , but still props to Bisu .
More Zerg bias please.
Because they don't deserve it? Jaedong is #1 Elo by 60 points right now, putting on one of the most dominating performances ever. Luxury is your MSL champion, maybe he hasn't played a lot of games, but what more can you ask of him?
Bisu failed hard in the OSL. Make any excuse you want, but he got worked. His performance has been shaky lately and he shouldn't get a free pass just because he's popular.
Spots 4 and 5 are a tough call between JangBi and Fantasy.
Jaedong I can agree, Luxury not so much. You think Lux can take Bisu or Flash Bo5?
i don't think that a lux vs flash bo5 would have flash as a heavy favorite. i might be a bit ignorant as a lux fan here, but, in terms of skill (i.e. leaving out the effect of playing someone from your own team), i think lux is actually the slight favorite. probably not against bisu, but that wouldnt' be horribly one-sided either
I think flash is waaaaaaay better than luxury. Specially in terms of skill/mechanics. Luxury is good at all-in builds though. When i saw flash play in the racewars i watched with my mouth open the whole game, he was so amazing.
Jaedong nr1 whatevr happens in OSL. Bisu nr 2 I would chose flash nr 3 since he's that good, but recent records beg to differ, so i guess he'll drop. If he does, he would be the favourite against anyone except jaedong, bisu and probably jangbi anyway.
On April 01 2009 02:21 StylishVODs wrote: Considering powerrank should also be a somewhat accurate ranking of the strongest players atm, putting bisu anywhere below top 3 would be just wrong. He obviously had an off day vs fantasy and fantasy played really well. He wins almost everything, then have a bad day and lose some games, then start winning again. Imo it would be too harsh even lowering him 2 spots.
His records speak for themselves, and his latest showdowns vs the best terrans and the best zerg indicates that he's still the best protoss and definately top 2 or 3 in my book atleast, with Jaedong above him.
The strongest players don't exit the league 0 - 3 and fail in WL . Jaedong and Luxury should be #1 and # 2 , after that you can shuffle Fantasy/JangBi/Bisu . I think Fantasy should be # 3 , because he still has something to prove . After that Bisu , because he performed well in the special event against terrans , not that JangBi wouldn't have demolished them , but still props to Bisu .
More Zerg bias please.
Because they don't deserve it? Jaedong is #1 Elo by 60 points right now, putting on one of the most dominating performances ever. Luxury is your MSL champion, maybe he hasn't played a lot of games, but what more can you ask of him?
Bisu failed hard in the OSL. Make any excuse you want, but he got worked. His performance has been shaky lately and he shouldn't get a free pass just because he's popular.
Spots 4 and 5 are a tough call between JangBi and Fantasy.
Jaedong I can agree, Luxury not so much. You think Lux can take Bisu or Flash Bo5?
What's your point? The PR isn't a speculative projection of Bo5s. It's a reflection of actual performance. Luxury won his games; Bisu and Flash didn't.
On April 01 2009 02:21 StylishVODs wrote: Considering powerrank should also be a somewhat accurate ranking of the strongest players atm, putting bisu anywhere below top 3 would be just wrong. He obviously had an off day vs fantasy and fantasy played really well. He wins almost everything, then have a bad day and lose some games, then start winning again. Imo it would be too harsh even lowering him 2 spots.
His records speak for themselves, and his latest showdowns vs the best terrans and the best zerg indicates that he's still the best protoss and definately top 2 or 3 in my book atleast, with Jaedong above him.
The strongest players don't exit the league 0 - 3 and fail in WL . Jaedong and Luxury should be #1 and # 2 , after that you can shuffle Fantasy/JangBi/Bisu . I think Fantasy should be # 3 , because he still has something to prove . After that Bisu , because he performed well in the special event against terrans , not that JangBi wouldn't have demolished them , but still props to Bisu .
More Zerg bias please.
Because they don't deserve it? Jaedong is #1 Elo by 60 points right now, putting on one of the most dominating performances ever. Luxury is your MSL champion, maybe he hasn't played a lot of games, but what more can you ask of him?
Bisu failed hard in the OSL. Make any excuse you want, but he got worked. His performance has been shaky lately and he shouldn't get a free pass just because he's popular.
Spots 4 and 5 are a tough call between JangBi and Fantasy.
Jaedong I can agree, Luxury not so much. You think Lux can take Bisu or Flash Bo5?
What's your point? The PR isn't a speculative projection of Bo5s. It's a reflection of actual performance. Luxury won his games; Bisu and Flash didn't.
Wrong, PR is a reflection of actual skill. If Luxury can't take Bisu or Flash in a Bo5 then he does not have greater skill than them. And this isn't because of a weak MU or something.
On April 01 2009 02:21 StylishVODs wrote: Considering powerrank should also be a somewhat accurate ranking of the strongest players atm, putting bisu anywhere below top 3 would be just wrong. He obviously had an off day vs fantasy and fantasy played really well. He wins almost everything, then have a bad day and lose some games, then start winning again. Imo it would be too harsh even lowering him 2 spots.
His records speak for themselves, and his latest showdowns vs the best terrans and the best zerg indicates that he's still the best protoss and definately top 2 or 3 in my book atleast, with Jaedong above him.
The strongest players don't exit the league 0 - 3 and fail in WL . Jaedong and Luxury should be #1 and # 2 , after that you can shuffle Fantasy/JangBi/Bisu . I think Fantasy should be # 3 , because he still has something to prove . After that Bisu , because he performed well in the special event against terrans , not that JangBi wouldn't have demolished them , but still props to Bisu .
More Zerg bias please.
Because they don't deserve it? Jaedong is #1 Elo by 60 points right now, putting on one of the most dominating performances ever. Luxury is your MSL champion, maybe he hasn't played a lot of games, but what more can you ask of him?
Bisu failed hard in the OSL. Make any excuse you want, but he got worked. His performance has been shaky lately and he shouldn't get a free pass just because he's popular.
Spots 4 and 5 are a tough call between JangBi and Fantasy.
Jaedong I can agree, Luxury not so much. You think Lux can take Bisu or Flash Bo5?
i don't think that a lux vs flash bo5 would have flash as a heavy favorite. i might be a bit ignorant as a lux fan here, but, in terms of skill (i.e. leaving out the effect of playing someone from your own team), i think lux is actually the slight favorite. probably not against bisu, but that wouldnt' be horribly one-sided either
I think flash is waaaaaaay better than luxury. Specially in terms of skill/mechanics. Luxury is good at all-in builds though. When i saw flash play in the racewars i watched with my mouth open the whole game, he was so amazing.
Jaedong nr1 whatevr happens in OSL. Bisu nr 2 I would chose flash nr 3 since he's that good, but recent records beg to differ, so i guess he'll drop. If he does, he would be the favourite against anyone except jaedong, bisu and probably jangbi anyway.
i have to disagree. at least with the statement that he's waaaay better. it's a pity that we don't really have any recent indication of how they compare to each other 1v1 (last time they played was in the ever osl, where lux 2-0'd flash). lux showed some of his classic rollercoaster (incredible, then crappy, then great again) during his msl run, but he also demonstrated that he knows how to play a bo5, and that his mechanics are respectable. i'm not saying that flash isn't one of, if not the best tvz player right now, but suggesting that a bo5 b/n him and lux would be severely underestimating luxury.
1. JD (no argument about this; all-killing KTF was just great, new OSL champion, 2nd place in WL on a 2-player-team...) 2/3. Bisu/Lux (imo Lux deserves #2 more this month, though you can't take away too much from Bisu for having a single bad day) 4. Jangbi 5. Fantasy 6.-10.... don't care; Hyia, Flash, Skyhigh, Light(?)
PR isn't about who would beat who in a Bo5 since everyone's MUs are different. It's about who got results and showed better Starcraft, and undeniably Luxury has shown better starcraft this month than Bisu. And please don't say how he cheesed a lot, since Bisu did so many rush builds in the Race Battle.
On April 01 2009 02:21 StylishVODs wrote: Considering powerrank should also be a somewhat accurate ranking of the strongest players atm, putting bisu anywhere below top 3 would be just wrong. He obviously had an off day vs fantasy and fantasy played really well. He wins almost everything, then have a bad day and lose some games, then start winning again. Imo it would be too harsh even lowering him 2 spots.
His records speak for themselves, and his latest showdowns vs the best terrans and the best zerg indicates that he's still the best protoss and definately top 2 or 3 in my book atleast, with Jaedong above him.
The strongest players don't exit the league 0 - 3 and fail in WL . Jaedong and Luxury should be #1 and # 2 , after that you can shuffle Fantasy/JangBi/Bisu . I think Fantasy should be # 3 , because he still has something to prove . After that Bisu , because he performed well in the special event against terrans , not that JangBi wouldn't have demolished them , but still props to Bisu .
More Zerg bias please.
Because they don't deserve it? Jaedong is #1 Elo by 60 points right now, putting on one of the most dominating performances ever. Luxury is your MSL champion, maybe he hasn't played a lot of games, but what more can you ask of him?
Bisu failed hard in the OSL. Make any excuse you want, but he got worked. His performance has been shaky lately and he shouldn't get a free pass just because he's popular.
Spots 4 and 5 are a tough call between JangBi and Fantasy.
Jaedong I can agree, Luxury not so much. You think Lux can take Bisu or Flash Bo5?
What's your point? The PR isn't a speculative projection of Bo5s. It's a reflection of actual performance. Luxury won his games; Bisu and Flash didn't.
Wrong, PR is a reflection of actual skill. If Luxury can't take Bisu or Flash in a Bo5 then he does not have greater skill than them. And this isn't because of a weak MU or something.
In the form Flash is in right now, Lux can definitely take it into at least game 5, depending on the map. I'm not sure about Bisu, though.
The bo5's against each other isn't the best way to judge a player's skill, though. Firebathero could lose to Tester in a Bo5 because of his bad TvP, but that doesn't mean that Tester is the better player.
Did both of you miss the part where I said that it wasn't because of a weak MU? Overall I believe Flash and Bisu are stronger players than Luxury. And I don't even like Flash, before you bring that up.
How do you gauge actual skill though? Do you advocate Flash being above Luxury and possibly Jaedong because he has more potential than the two? No, that's silly. The PR isn't strictly about actual skill. Just because a person has an off day (or two in this case), it doesn't make them impervious to any dips in the PR just because we know they can do better. Although their skill does give them a buffer against any significant drops, Luxury will be rated higher than Bisu because of their performances. Oh, luxury even leads in Head to Head vs Bisu, so he definitely has a chance of taking Bisu in a Bo5.
On April 01 2009 02:21 StylishVODs wrote: Considering powerrank should also be a somewhat accurate ranking of the strongest players atm, putting bisu anywhere below top 3 would be just wrong. He obviously had an off day vs fantasy and fantasy played really well. He wins almost everything, then have a bad day and lose some games, then start winning again. Imo it would be too harsh even lowering him 2 spots.
His records speak for themselves, and his latest showdowns vs the best terrans and the best zerg indicates that he's still the best protoss and definately top 2 or 3 in my book atleast, with Jaedong above him.
The strongest players don't exit the league 0 - 3 and fail in WL . Jaedong and Luxury should be #1 and # 2 , after that you can shuffle Fantasy/JangBi/Bisu . I think Fantasy should be # 3 , because he still has something to prove . After that Bisu , because he performed well in the special event against terrans , not that JangBi wouldn't have demolished them , but still props to Bisu .
More Zerg bias please.
Because they don't deserve it? Jaedong is #1 Elo by 60 points right now, putting on one of the most dominating performances ever. Luxury is your MSL champion, maybe he hasn't played a lot of games, but what more can you ask of him?
Bisu failed hard in the OSL. Make any excuse you want, but he got worked. His performance has been shaky lately and he shouldn't get a free pass just because he's popular.
Spots 4 and 5 are a tough call between JangBi and Fantasy.
Jaedong I can agree, Luxury not so much. You think Lux can take Bisu or Flash Bo5?
What's your point? The PR isn't a speculative projection of Bo5s. It's a reflection of actual performance. Luxury won his games; Bisu and Flash didn't.
Wrong, PR is a reflection of actual skill. If Luxury can't take Bisu or Flash in a Bo5 then he does not have greater skill than them. And this isn't because of a weak MU or something.
Look at what you said carefully. The PR is a reflection of actual skill. Luxury actually won the MSL against strong opponents in a convincing manner. Bisu and Flash didn't even get the chance to play him; they looked inconsistent.
Skill is not based on hypotheticals, its based on results.
I ofcourse respect you oppinions but cannot do other than watch the games and decide for myself. I use my experience and starcraftskill to judge wether or not a player is better than the other, but cannot claim that im right for that matter.
From what I have seen, performance or not. Bisu has played better than flash, flash has player better than luxury. I just watch the games and decide how strong of a player I think they are.
So this way it would be jaedong bisu flash luruxy, but then you have to make performance worth something so it will probably get tossed around abit. But i don't like relying 100% on performance alone, starcraft is too complicated for that and we dont want another kesparanking. As an example, the way flash got eliminated by leta in the starleague or by fantacy/jaedong in the WL won't hurt him in my book atleast.
One great example of how good flash is, is watching him vs stork in the allstar. Also watching him on RH3 vs jaedong with such a disadvantageous start is a great example. + Show Spoiler +
(his strat was based on taking mapcontrol in the beginning and he wasnt able to do that since he got caught in a bad place with his marines early on. Starting with SKterran after you are contained with lurkers is pretty much autolose many times.
Lux deserves it (#2, #3 at worst), MSL gold is no joke. If you disregard it, just because the other player can probably perform better overall, then i don't know. PR this way would be really static with even less changes than kespa ranks with pretty much permanent top 3 jd,lyh,kty.
On April 02 2009 15:35 LxRogue wrote: Skill is not based on hypotheticals, its based on results.
QFT
1. JD 2. Luxury 3. Bisu 4./5. Fantasy/Jangbi
Bisu over Fantasy/Jangbi because beneath his 0-3 in OSL he played decently and you don't drop the 1st of last PR too much because of one bad series. Fantasy and Jangbi also didn't play too much.
If however, Fantasy wins the OSL, my Ranking is screwed.
Flash is so great. But he is something like 3-3 in March and already dropped in both leagues before. In my book he cannot be Top5 this month.
Bisu, Fantasy, and Lux/Flash are debatable. Jangbi sucks and gets lucky brackets. Players like him who dismiss the mental factor do not belong in starleague finals.
The question is how to you judge people on the factor of a few off games. Bisu played like a beast the entire month, but had a few costly slipups. His infamous game 5 vs Jaedong, being sniped by Hoejja in an important WL match, and he looking far different against Fantasy than he did vs Flash a few months ago all question a #2 placement. He at least showed that his poor form vs Fantasy was temporary though in allkilling the Terran lineup. That isn't very surprising though considering all he had to do was beat Flash; no other Terran there was really much of a threat. Nada has shown 1 great game where Jangbi played like a lost and confused kid who thought he could screw around vs some newbie, and had nothing special otherwise. Leta/Hwasin are just horrid at TvP.
Fantasy 3-0'ing Bisu the way he did was incredible. Yeah Bisu wasn't playing like the #1 untouchable PvT'er he was the past few months on that day. But Fantasy's decisions in games 1/3 were amazing, and his play in game 2, outside of the afk wraith, was absolutely stunning in how well he controlled the game. Oh and he beat his PR competition Luxury too in the OSL, showing how beastly oov's new build is. Like FS I fully expect the oov/fantasy combo to flatten Jaedong in the hardest starleague run since Bacchus/Incruit.
Flash/Lux is tough because the only reason Flash isn't in the finals of both leagues is because of an overloaded schedule. Notice how the only games he lost in that period of domination was when he had different games on the same day or on consecutive days. I questioned his form after those damaging losses, but his play vs Jaedong and Stork as Stylish said was top notch, and in addition there was the scary finish against Leta/Yarnc. Lux definitely deserves credit for beating Leta but Zero defeated himself in their semis and Jangbi is not a worthy opponent. It was a good proving ground for Lux's ZvP though, showing that he can effortlessly defeat inferior players even in his worst matchup.
Given the importance of keeping PR precedents (Bisu dropping to #5 upon dropping both leagues, same with Flash, underlying the importance of starleague games despite ridiculously unfair circumstances), I'm going to have to give the nod to Lux and leave Flash at 5. Even though Flash, when he plays well like he did vs Leta, ole yeller, Jaedong, and Stork, makes you wonder 'how can he ever lose,' he did have some uncharacteristic mistakes that resulted in key losses (the early marine losses vs Jaedong, sloppy micro vs Much). Lux missed a bunch too, but he did save KTF vs SKT1 and won the MSL convincingly.
On April 02 2009 10:50 fanatacist wrote: Did both of you miss the part where I said that it wasn't because of a weak MU? Overall I believe Flash and Bisu are stronger players than Luxury. And I don't even like Flash, before you bring that up.
ZvT is Luxury's weakest match-up? ... And that was just an example about Bo5's among each other being unimportant. Flash lost against Leta in MSL, Luxury won. Doesn't that mean he's better? Luxury could definitely take on most people in a Bo5, Bo1 is what he is weak at.
But Fantasy second? That's a stretch. He beat Bisu, yes, but Hero didn't even make it into the PR after he beat Bisu, for example. Besides that, he's beat Luxury and lost to him... before that he's been sucking. 7-3 last 10... It's pretty good, but definitely not #2. That's ridiculous.
#1 WL, All-kill of KTF, OSL Finalist, beat the mechanics wonderboy by.hero that some people were foolish enough to put above Jaedong, Beat Bisu 3-2 in the GOM showmatch. No questions here.
2. Bisu
#2 WL, All-kill of Terran line-up, stood toe-to-toe with Jaedong in 4 games of the GOM showmatch (which is something that no other player can claim), and is showing to be a favorite over Flash in his matches against him. His play is still monstrous, I wouldn't put Flash or Luxury over him in a Bo5.
Cons: 0-3 to a very murderous-looking Fantasy, who is also his teammate (advantage to the weaker player IMO). Fantasy's spot-on play for the first time in a long time and Bisu's one day off should not be held against him as severely as everyone is making it out to be. WL loss to Hoejja... He's still #2 in WL.
3. Luxury
MSL winner over a pretty respectable Jangbi... Don't remember enough else about him to place him here, was his MSL run spectacular? WL stats? Respond with information, because just an MSL win seems kind of lonely in justification for #3.
Cons: Jangbi is not that great at PvZ, and although he got pretty much worked, even a convincing manner against Jang "Mindgames ain't shit" bi isn't THAT impressive in my eyes. I still see Lux as an underdog to Flash/JD/Bisu, but Flash dropped the ball (possibly due to pressure), so we can't see how dominant he is besides his TvP game vs. Stork/Bisu and TvZ vs. Jaedong. The two of those that I watched were great games, but he lost vs. Jaedong.
4. Fantasy
OSL semi-finalist, 3-0 Bisu in a semi-final isn't a small feat even if he is your teammate and he is having an off-day. Bisu's revamped PvT being taken down in such a dominating fashion is worth mentioning. On top of that, Bisu has always been seen as a great BoX player, and Fantasy just recently rose to that reputation in my mind with this performance.
Cons: Most likely to get crushed by JD in the finals despite his BoX preparation, because JD is just a monster. Although this is hypothetical, none of us will argue I think that JD is the favorite because Fantasy isn't nearly as good as Bisu who can stand as a near equal to JD or Flash who pushed JD to a close-ass game on RH3. His TvZ is simply not that good, and JD has shown that he knows how to handle the neo-mech builds that Fantasy is famous for. He was terrible in WL. No other notable accomplishments really.
JangBi is a rather mixed bag. On one hand, he showed some really good performance up to the Lost Saga MSL. But during the finals and since then, his performance has become rather sub-par. I guess he is taking his reputation as the new King of Silver really hard. I think somewhere in the middle would be best for him.
I also think sAviOr might deserve a spot on the Power Rank this month. A low rank, to be sure, but a rank nevertheless. Yes, it is true that he lost to ZerO, which is a big stain to his progress, and his last few plays in the Winner`s League were not particularly good either. However, we cannot ignore the fact he has been performing significantly better then during his slumping period. Also, we need to factor in some of the all-kills he made in the Winner`s League as well as his very good performance in the All-Star Race Battle.
On April 02 2009 22:48 disciple wrote: If fantasy rapes JD he should claim the top spot.
I disagree. If he wins he deserves being 3rd or 4th but why take away everything jaedong has done this month like that. Jaedong has been playing better than anyone else and gotten better results than anyone else this month.
He almost won the WL for Oz himself, almost every korean pro-gamer concider him the strongest gamer atm.
Otherwise I pretty much agree with fanatacist, except I'd put flash over fantasy and fantasy over luxury IF fantasy wins OSL. And JangBi definately over skyhigh. Skyhigh won jaedongs 5-pool. No big deal. Then he won some poor protosses but still gets some credit because he played good. His win vs Hiya is pretty much the heaviest and hiyas tvt isnt that amazing.
On April 02 2009 22:48 disciple wrote: If fantasy rapes JD he should claim the top spot.
I disagree. If he wins he deserves being 3rd or 4th but why take away everything jaedong has done this month like that. Jaedong has been playing better than anyone else and gotten better results than anyone else this month.
He almost won the WL for Oz himself, almost every korean pro-gamer concider him the strongest gamer atm.
Otherwise I pretty much agree with fanatacist, except I'd put flash over fantasy and fantasy over luxury IF fantasy wins OSL. And JangBi definately over skyhigh. Skyhigh won jaedongs 5-pool. No big deal. Then he won some poor protosses but still gets some credit because he played good. His win vs Hiya is pretty much the heaviest and hiyas tvt isnt that amazing.
I dont know how the situation of fantasy should be different from the one of ForGG back in Arena MSL. He basically would've raped the top 2 in the scene atm in order to win the tournament. Not to mention that if fantasy beats JD his run will include a comeback vs the current MSL champ, Lux as well. In my eyes fantasy will deserve the top spot if he manages to take the OSL home in a onesided series. In any other scenario (even if fantasy wins 3-2 or smth) JD is the undisputed #1
Yeah some might have that oppinion. But I think what jaedong has accomplished this month is worth more than whatever fantasy can do in the OSL finals.
There is just no way Fantasy could have won WL semifinals and finals for SKT1 alone, but Jaedong could and almost did. That sais something about their skill.
On April 01 2009 02:21 StylishVODs wrote: Considering powerrank should also be a somewhat accurate ranking of the strongest players atm, putting bisu anywhere below top 3 would be just wrong. He obviously had an off day vs fantasy and fantasy played really well. He wins almost everything, then have a bad day and lose some games, then start winning again. Imo it would be too harsh even lowering him 2 spots.
His records speak for themselves, and his latest showdowns vs the best terrans and the best zerg indicates that he's still the best protoss and definately top 2 or 3 in my book atleast, with Jaedong above him.
The strongest players don't exit the league 0 - 3 and fail in WL . Jaedong and Luxury should be #1 and # 2 , after that you can shuffle Fantasy/JangBi/Bisu . I think Fantasy should be # 3 , because he still has something to prove . After that Bisu , because he performed well in the special event against terrans , not that JangBi wouldn't have demolished them , but still props to Bisu .
More Zerg bias please.
Because they don't deserve it? Jaedong is #1 Elo by 60 points right now, putting on one of the most dominating performances ever. Luxury is your MSL champion, maybe he hasn't played a lot of games, but what more can you ask of him?
Bisu failed hard in the OSL. Make any excuse you want, but he got worked. His performance has been shaky lately and he shouldn't get a free pass just because he's popular.
Spots 4 and 5 are a tough call between JangBi and Fantasy.
Jaedong I can agree, Luxury not so much. You think Lux can take Bisu or Flash Bo5?
What's your point? The PR isn't a speculative projection of Bo5s. It's a reflection of actual performance. Luxury won his games; Bisu and Flash didn't.
Wrong, PR is a reflection of actual skill. If Luxury can't take Bisu or Flash in a Bo5 then he does not have greater skill than them. And this isn't because of a weak MU or something.
This is completely false, PR is a reflection of the player performance over the month.. If it was a reflection of actuall skill, then we can all agree that flash, bisu, and jaedong could hold #1 for months, since they are the most skilled players imo, but sadly, you need to perform.. Flash had a bad month,lets face it.. Jaedong showed strong strong play, he should be #1, no contest..
Luxury should be second, he won MSL, he got far in OSL, and he won games, which matter.. Yes, he lacks some areas of his play more then others, but winning games > loosing games.
Third place is hard..
We have bisu, who lost to ktf zerg sniper in game 2, lost 0:3 in OSL.. I could care less for fun-event, since its all that is, FUN.. yes, he got an all-kill, but stork won 3 games as well yet noone seems to bring that up.. Leta also got 3 kills.. Anyway, the even doesnt matter at all here..
Then we have here fantasy, who 3:0 bisu.. But he wasnt even in a PR last month, so i dont think you can just come and jump to place 3 because of it, since besides OSL, he didnt performed well in WL at all..
Then there is jangbi, who got a silver MSL, carried Samsung in WL, and showed strong play everywhere, and not only this month, since he was #4 in PR last month..
Bringing all the facts together, and since Bisu lost 3:0, showing weak play, i would put Jangbi #3.
Bisu should be #4, and fantasy #5. Now if fantasy wins in the finals, he should jump. How far, who knows, since its a whole new month..
Last 5 who knows, there were not many games so its hard to decide, By.hero should come, but what place, i dont know. Flash should also stay on PR, stork probably as well.. Skyhigh could appear as well.Then who knows, as i ve already said, too little games have been playes ..
That is ofcourse, how i would put PR, so dont jump my balls too much
On April 01 2009 02:21 StylishVODs wrote: Considering powerrank should also be a somewhat accurate ranking of the strongest players atm, putting bisu anywhere below top 3 would be just wrong. He obviously had an off day vs fantasy and fantasy played really well. He wins almost everything, then have a bad day and lose some games, then start winning again. Imo it would be too harsh even lowering him 2 spots.
His records speak for themselves, and his latest showdowns vs the best terrans and the best zerg indicates that he's still the best protoss and definately top 2 or 3 in my book atleast, with Jaedong above him.
The strongest players don't exit the league 0 - 3 and fail in WL . Jaedong and Luxury should be #1 and # 2 , after that you can shuffle Fantasy/JangBi/Bisu . I think Fantasy should be # 3 , because he still has something to prove . After that Bisu , because he performed well in the special event against terrans , not that JangBi wouldn't have demolished them , but still props to Bisu .
More Zerg bias please.
Because they don't deserve it? Jaedong is #1 Elo by 60 points right now, putting on one of the most dominating performances ever. Luxury is your MSL champion, maybe he hasn't played a lot of games, but what more can you ask of him?
Bisu failed hard in the OSL. Make any excuse you want, but he got worked. His performance has been shaky lately and he shouldn't get a free pass just because he's popular.
Spots 4 and 5 are a tough call between JangBi and Fantasy.
Jaedong I can agree, Luxury not so much. You think Lux can take Bisu or Flash Bo5?
What's your point? The PR isn't a speculative projection of Bo5s. It's a reflection of actual performance. Luxury won his games; Bisu and Flash didn't.
Wrong, PR is a reflection of actual skill. If Luxury can't take Bisu or Flash in a Bo5 then he does not have greater skill than them. And this isn't because of a weak MU or something.
Third place is hard..
We have bisu, who lost to ktf zerg sniper in game 2, lost 0:3 in OSL.. I could care less for fun-event, since its all that is, FUN.. yes, he got an all-kill, but stork won 3 games as well yet noone seems to bring that up.. Leta also got 3 kills.. Anyway, the even doesnt matter at all here..
Then we have here fantasy, who 3:0 bisu.. But he wasnt even in a PR last month, so i dont think you can just come and jump to place 3 because of it, since besides OSL, he didnt performed well in WL at all..
Then there is jangbi, who got a silver MSL, carried Samsung in WL, and showed strong play everywhere, and not only this month, since he was #4 in PR last month..
Bringing all the facts together, and since Bisu lost 3:0, showing weak play, i would put Jangbi #3.
Bisu should be #4, and fantasy #5. Now if fantasy wins in the finals, he should jump. How far, who knows, since its a whole new month..
You forget the fact that the special event means money and pride too, so they did practice a lot. And beating July+ the twins cannot be compared with alkilling the T lineup, including Flash who declared he will allkill the toss lineup. That actually shows a lot of the players' strength.
I dont see from where you got that Jangbi over Bisu stuff, Jangbi lost too, got a game from the finals, beacause Lux decided to suicide ~30cracklings for nothing when the upgrade finished and he had the momentum. Getting owned by Lux on Z maps or getting owned by Fanta on T maps, one isnt worse than the other, and if you exclude their bo5 loss, Bisu over Jangbi EZ. Yeah, got snipied from a mapartifacat-abusing allin, big deal. Jangbi couldnt even get his team into the playoffs, not even close. Ridicoulos, you use the WL performance against Bisu in favor of Jangbi.
There is no reason for Jangbi to be over Bisu. Jangbi was raped by Luxury. Bisu was raped by Fantasy. Fantasy is a stronger player than Luxury IMO (currently, at least). lol @ the guy who said Jangbi "carried" Samsung in WL. Carried them to where? Samsung didn't even make the playoffs in WL lol. SKT made the playoffs more or less because Bisu carried the team (yeah, Fantasy hardly did shit).
PR coming this weekend! I've got a night of drinking ahead of me and a hellacious week at work come Monday. StarCraft is, as always, my little hermit world where I retreat when I need to feel infallible. In life, I'm just a regular jackoff. In StarCraft, I'M FAKESTEVE. BOW DOWN.
It should be no surprise who #1 is, in fact the top 5 seem pretty clear-cut. It's been a simple month without much in the way of ambiguous, convoluted results and gameplay. The winners are clear, the losers even clearer.
edit: Oh hai Steve! Great to hear that PR is coming!
About Jangbi: If judging Jangbi, you should consider that he actually won 2 BO5 before he lost to luxury. He beat Nada 3-2, and Nada was certainly no pushover on that day. He shut out Stork with a brutal 3-0, always pulling ahead by a margin and building that advantage into a crushing victory. Can you say the same about, say, Luxury's competition and posture on the way to the finals?
Don't get me wrong. Luxury beat Jangbi in the end, and he proved to be the better player on that day. But the consistency that Jangbi has shown across this MSL AND in Winners League has simply been amazing.
On April 03 2009 19:45 arbiter_md wrote: What's with upcoming events? OSL final, new PR and that's it? End of starcraft?
Huh?
Proleague is starting again on the 11th. MST Offline Prelims took place yesterday. OGN Offline Prelims will take place soon. GOM Season 3 kicked off a week ago.
On April 03 2009 14:04 Geo.Rion wrote: You forget the fact that the special event means money and pride too, so they did practice a lot.
It felt like you prepared a lot for today. ▲ Bisu = I actually didn’t prepare that much. I think winning the first match warmed me up. The other protoss players know a lot of builds so I received a lot of advice.
July = I would like it if there were more events like this in the future. I wish they would raise the prize 10x so that I could fully practice and participate.
Games are great, dont get me wrong, but they dont mean anything, its just a fun event.
It felt like you prepared a lot for today. ▲ Bisu = I actually didn’t prepare that much. I think winning the first match warmed me up. The other protoss players know a lot of builds so I received a lot of advice.
July = I would like it if there were more events like this in the future. I wish they would raise the prize 10x so that I could fully practice and participate.
Games are great, dont get me wrong, but they dont mean anything, its just a fun event.
Its a fun event, yeah but I bet the players want to win still, and they practice all day. Its a good event to show some raw skill without tremendous preparation vs a specific opponent.
I don't prepare any special for games that i play on iccup but if i reach a high level it still tells you something of my skill.
WL is also a good example of this, winning alot of games without preparing for a specific opponent.
Results weigh heavy yeah but you have to look at the games also.
On April 04 2009 00:03 StylishVODs wrote: Its a fun event, yeah but I bet the players want to win still, and they practice all day. Its a good event to show some raw skill without tremendous preparation vs a specific opponent.
I don't prepare any special for games that i play on iccup but if i reach a high level it still tells you something of my skill.
WL is also a good example of this, winning alot of games without preparing for a specific opponent.
Results weigh heavy yeah but you have to look at the games also.
Luxury won the MSL. Bisu played like an ass and got 3-0ed by Fantasy. How would Lux not be above Bisu in the next PR?
If you look at Proleague as well, I suppose Bisu's results are a bit more impressive throughout March, but he still lost to HoeJja in the playoffs. In WL playoffs, Lux closed out the series vs. SKT1 against Fantasy and Best after Flash was good for 0 wins, and lost in ZvZ to Jaedong in the next round. Really no shame there.
I'm not really saying that Luxury's better than Bisu, cause well, despite being a huge Luxury fan, Bisu's still clearly a better player, but looking at March, I can't see Luxury not being above Bisu. Luxury was 9-6 since the last PR to Bisu's 8-5, and his wins were bigger than Bisu's wins and losses smaller than Bisu's losses.
bisu in march for games that actually count: W against 815, roro, keke, mind, nada in winners league, loss against by.hero, hoejja in WL playoffs where he only went 1-1. 0-3 loss against fantasy in OSL semifinals.
then special events: 3-2 against jaedong. we all saw this. it was always one sided games for either players. then he all killed terran lineup yes. but didn't he also lose to savior? if we are gonna bring up these performances, stork going 3-0 on zerg should be counted also to rank him higher. no, these are nice treats but not truly the same as if jaedong and bisu were head to head in the OSL finals. there is alot less on the line in a special event vs winner league playoffs or OSL run near the finals.
luxury on the other hand: losses against nbs and leta in winners league, but in WL playoffs, he finished up skt fantasy and best to clutch the win. sure he lost in the next round to jaedong, but who DOESNT lose z v z to jaedong? he 3-0'd zero, made him look like some chump b- zerg, he beat jangbi 3-1 in MSL, and had the poise to take the whole damn thing. sure he lost to fantasy 1-2, but u know, fantasy is playing like a pimp.
fantasy hasnt done shit in winners league this month besides take a win over slumping flash in playoffs. but when it matters the most, he delivers. he 2-1'ed luxury, followed by a 3-0 raping of bisu. he did just as well as bisu in the WL playoffs record wise, but at least he didnt get knocked off by hoejja, and lost to the MSL champ.
#1 jaedong #2 luxury #3 fantasy #4/#5 bisu/jangbi (interchangeable) #6 by.hero #7 nada #8 stork #9 doesnt even matter beyond here, ill stick skyhigh at #10, but he only really killed jaedong cheese rushing, and two scrub tosses and hiya handing the game over to him. at least he was poised enough to reverse all kill lecaf. #10 skyhigh
On April 03 2009 18:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: HI DUDES
PR coming this weekend! I've got a night of drinking ahead of me and a hellacious week at work come Monday. StarCraft is, as always, my little hermit world where I retreat when I need to feel infallible. In life, I'm just a regular jackoff. In StarCraft, I'M FAKESTEVE. BOW DOWN.
It should be no surprise who #1 is, in fact the top 5 seem pretty clear-cut. It's been a simple month without much in the way of ambiguous, convoluted results and gameplay. The winners are clear, the losers even clearer.
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeers, it's Friday night
you are probably just waiting for OSL finals before PR just to see where to fit fantasy~~ im sure your top 4 isn't done yet~~ XD
bisu in march for games that actually count: W against 815, roro, keke, mind, nada in winners league, loss against by.hero, hoejja in WL playoffs where he only went 1-1. 0-3 loss against fantasy in OSL semifinals.
then special events: 3-2 against jaedong. we all saw this. it was always one sided games for either players. then he all killed terran lineup yes. but didn't he also lose to savior? if we are gonna bring up these performances, stork going 3-0 on zerg should be counted also to rank him higher. no, these are nice treats but not truly the same as if jaedong and bisu were head to head in the OSL finals. there is alot less on the line in a special event vs winner league playoffs or OSL run near the finals.
luxury on the other hand: losses against nbs and leta in winners league, but in WL playoffs, he finished up skt fantasy and best to clutch the win. sure he lost in the next round to jaedong, but who DOESNT lose z v z to jaedong? he 3-0'd zero, made him look like some chump b- zerg, he beat jangbi 3-1 in MSL, and had the poise to take the whole damn thing. sure he lost to fantasy 1-2, but u know, fantasy is playing like a pimp.
fantasy hasnt done shit in winners league this month besides take a win over slumping flash in playoffs. but when it matters the most, he delivers. he 2-1'ed luxury, followed by a 3-0 raping of bisu. he did just as well as bisu in the WL playoffs record wise, but at least he didnt get knocked off by hoejja, and lost to the MSL champ.
#1 jaedong #2 luxury #3 fantasy #4/#5 bisu/jangbi (interchangeable) #6 by.hero #7 nada #8 stork #9 doesnt even matter beyond here, ill stick skyhigh at #10, but he only really killed jaedong cheese rushing, and two scrub tosses and hiya handing the game over to him. at least he was poised enough to reverse all kill lecaf. #10 skyhigh
On April 03 2009 18:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: HI DUDES
PR coming this weekend! I've got a night of drinking ahead of me and a hellacious week at work come Monday. StarCraft is, as always, my little hermit world where I retreat when I need to feel infallible. In life, I'm just a regular jackoff. In StarCraft, I'M FAKESTEVE. BOW DOWN.
It should be no surprise who #1 is, in fact the top 5 seem pretty clear-cut. It's been a simple month without much in the way of ambiguous, convoluted results and gameplay. The winners are clear, the losers even clearer.
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeers, it's Friday night
Glad to hear it, although I agree with the others that the primary reason for the delay is the OSL finals. However, I think that is fine since a lot of events wrapped up these days and it would be good to encompass all of them.
By the way, you were probably asked this many times before, but I was wondering....if you are the fake Steve, then where is the real Steve?
On April 03 2009 18:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: HI DUDES
PR coming this weekend! I've got a night of drinking ahead of me and a hellacious week at work come Monday. StarCraft is, as always, my little hermit world where I retreat when I need to feel infallible. In life, I'm just a regular jackoff. In StarCraft, I'M FAKESTEVE. BOW DOWN.
It should be no surprise who #1 is, in fact the top 5 seem pretty clear-cut. It's been a simple month without much in the way of ambiguous, convoluted results and gameplay. The winners are clear, the losers even clearer.
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeers, it's Friday night
Glad to hear it, although I agree with the others that the primary reason for the delay is the OSL finals. However, I think that is fine since a lot of events wrapped up these days and it would be good to encompass all of them.
By the way, you were probably asked this many times before, but I was wondering....if you are the fake Steve, then where is the real Steve?
Bisu has been subpar 10-8 during the past month, getting utterly crushed by Fantasy. At least Jaedong, Fantasy and Luxury should probably be above him. I thought Fantasy wasn't that good, but his play vs Jaedong was enough for me to put him above Bisu as well. JangBi is debatable as well. Those 5 players should most likely form the top 5, and I must say that Bisu has by far accomplished the least of these 5 during the past month.
On April 05 2009 00:28 nK)Duke wrote: get bisu out of #1 ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111
OMFG!!!/1/.13/.23421ONE1!11
And they say Bisu fans are the most annoying.
And that's for a reason, too.
I think Bisu is barely top 5.
Barely top5? Who would you put above Bisu. JD,Fanta,Lux is a possibility,Jangbi can be arguably,but I don't really think so. And that's a solid top 5 position at least. No players came anywhere close to top 5 this month. I mean hell,if I was to make the PR I wouldn't even know who to put on the PR,there were so few games for the rest. Okay I didn't read your second post before posting. The second one makes more sense. To me Fanta is clearly no2. I mean,Lux didn't really do anything. He won against Jangbi,yeah that's good,but I think that even tho he lost,Fantasy impressed me more in the OSL finals than Lux in the MSL winning. I mean look at Fantasy's OSL road. It was fucking stacked. He played Luxury,Bisu,Jaedong,and he played like a badass motherfucker in all those games,and besides that,he won two games in the WL playoff against Hoejja and Flash,no chumps. Lux won one game against Fantasy in the Playoffs,and lost against JD. I don't know if it counts,but he didn't win a single fucking game in the All Star Race Battles. So I think Fantasy is more deserving of the no2 spot.
On April 05 2009 02:26 Shikyo wrote: Well, when I say "barely top 5" I mean that around 5th, which would be his placement in my PR.
Yeah but why would you place Jangbi above him? I wasn't impressed by him at all in the MSL finals,I think that he sucked almost as hard as Bisu against Fantasy. Other than that,neither of them had too much games this month,so we have to take into consideration the All Star event,where Bisu played really well,therefore I think he should have the no 4 spot.
bottom five a class below the top 5, for the most part. although i really wanted to see a by.hero vs bsiu or jaedong vs bisu osl final >< that crazy zerg has bisu's number
On April 05 2009 02:26 Shikyo wrote: Well, when I say "barely top 5" I mean that around 5th, which would be his placement in my PR.
Yeah but why would you place Jangbi above him? I wasn't impressed by him at all in the MSL finals,I think that he sucked almost as hard as Bisu against Fantasy. Other than that,neither of them had too much games this month,so we have to take into consideration the All Star event,where Bisu played really well,therefore I think he should have the no 4 spot.
Silver > 0-3 vs Fantasy.
BIsu is on like a 4-game losing streak and got no medals at all.
On April 05 2009 02:26 Shikyo wrote: Well, when I say "barely top 5" I mean that around 5th, which would be his placement in my PR.
Yeah but why would you place Jangbi above him? I wasn't impressed by him at all in the MSL finals,I think that he sucked almost as hard as Bisu against Fantasy. Other than that,neither of them had too much games this month,so we have to take into consideration the All Star event,where Bisu played really well,therefore I think he should have the no 4 spot.
Silver > 0-3 vs Fantasy.
BIsu is on like a 4-game losing streak and got no medals at all.
sample size
to be fair you can probably deflate most posts in this thread with those two words
On April 05 2009 11:03 purple[time] wrote: Jaedong is just too damn good. Who can stop him at this Point?
Well, no one can stop him from being #1 in the power ranks this month.
Remember that people were saying the same thing about Bisu about two months ago. Also note that JD would have lost to Fantasy were it a best of 3. (Putting aside different preparations and mindsets and such and other things to account for if you magically turn a best of 5 into a best of 3.)
I really do hope JD can keep it up. It's been a really long time since we've seen anyone dominate consistently over the span of a few months, and JD seems to deserve it if he can do it.
On April 05 2009 02:26 Shikyo wrote: Well, when I say "barely top 5" I mean that around 5th, which would be his placement in my PR.
Yeah but why would you place Jangbi above him? I wasn't impressed by him at all in the MSL finals,I think that he sucked almost as hard as Bisu against Fantasy. Other than that,neither of them had too much games this month,so we have to take into consideration the All Star event,where Bisu played really well,therefore I think he should have the no 4 spot.
Silver > 0-3 vs Fantasy.
BIsu is on like a 4-game losing streak and got no medals at all.
sample size
to be fair you can probably deflate most posts in this thread with those two words
Sample size: The Whole Month. it's PR, not Kespa rankings.
On April 05 2009 11:03 purple[time] wrote: Jaedong is just too damn good. Who can stop him at this Point?
Well, no one can stop him from being #1 in the power ranks this month.
Remember that people were saying the same thing about Bisu about two months ago. Also note that JD would have lost to Fantasy were it a best of 3. (Putting aside different preparations and mindsets and such and other things to account for if you magically turn a best of 5 into a best of 3.)
I really do hope JD can keep it up. It's been a really long time since we've seen anyone dominate consistently over the span of a few months, and JD seems to deserve it if he can do it.
JD changes dramatically when he's one game from losing... see his Bo3 series vs Stork.
Bisu has no medals at all? What a convincing point, this is like not putting flash or JD on the top spot because they both won nothing in the last 3 seasons...jee. And after the first game in the Bo3 the only thing that has changed dramatically is the map they were playing on (*cough* ToTM). Skillwise Bisu is right behind JD atm and the gap between those two and all others is huge. But because the PR reflect the monthly performance Bisu should not be #2. Fantasy clearly showed better play than him, but I think it comes to FS to decide if Lux must be #3 or not.
I still think Luxury should be second . He has shown better results then fantasy this past month .Even thought Fantasy was great in his semis and final , he didn't win and Luxury has the more impressive all - around performance . Fantasy should be third and from there on its enyone's spot .
On April 05 2009 18:36 raga4ka wrote: I still think Luxury should be second . He has shown better results then fantasy this past month .Even thought Fantasy was great in his semis and final , he didn't win and Luxury has the more impressive all - around performance . Fantasy should be third and from there on its enyone's spot .
Lux no way has better overall performances. In fact, Fantasy beat Lux himself in his OSL road. This month,Fantasy showed far more,than Luxury. Perhaps Fantasy wouldn't have beaten Jangbi,but Lux wouldn't have beaten Bisu either,and the point is,he couldn't even beat Fantasy,and don't tell me Luxury's path to the MSL championship was harder than Fanta's path to the OSL finals,and I thnik there is no player on the world right now that would have fared better against Jaedong than Fantasy did.
On April 05 2009 18:36 raga4ka wrote: I still think Luxury should be second . He has shown better results then fantasy this past month .Even thought Fantasy was great in his semis and final , he didn't win and Luxury has the more impressive all - around performance . Fantasy should be third and from there on its enyone's spot .
Lux no way has better overall performances. In fact, Fantasy beat Lux himself in his OSL road. This month,Fantasy showed far more,than Luxury. Perhaps Fantasy wouldn't have beaten Jangbi,but Lux wouldn't have beaten Bisu either,and the point is,he couldn't even beat Fantasy,and don't tell me Luxury's path to the MSL championship was harder than Fanta's path to the OSL finals,and I thnik there is no player on the world right now that would have fared better against Jaedong than Fantasy did.
On April 05 2009 18:36 raga4ka wrote: I still think Luxury should be second . He has shown better results then fantasy this past month .Even thought Fantasy was great in his semis and final , he didn't win and Luxury has the more impressive all - around performance . Fantasy should be third and from there on its enyone's spot .
Lux no way has better overall performances. In fact, Fantasy beat Lux himself in his OSL road. This month,Fantasy showed far more,than Luxury. Perhaps Fantasy wouldn't have beaten Jangbi,but Lux wouldn't have beaten Bisu either,and the point is,he couldn't even beat Fantasy,and don't tell me Luxury's path to the MSL championship was harder than Fanta's path to the OSL finals,and I thnik there is no player on the world right now that would have fared better against Jaedong than Fantasy did.
Lol... what about Bisu? You think Bisu had less chance than Fanta? Or what about FlaSh? Honestly I'd say that Bisu is 50-50 with JD, and Flash is 45-50 in JD's favor. While fanta would be around 40-50 with JD in a BO5.
On April 05 2009 18:36 raga4ka wrote: I still think Luxury should be second . He has shown better results then fantasy this past month .Even thought Fantasy was great in his semis and final , he didn't win and Luxury has the more impressive all - around performance . Fantasy should be third and from there on its enyone's spot .
Lux no way has better overall performances. In fact, Fantasy beat Lux himself in his OSL road. This month,Fantasy showed far more,than Luxury. Perhaps Fantasy wouldn't have beaten Jangbi,but Lux wouldn't have beaten Bisu either,and the point is,he couldn't even beat Fantasy,and don't tell me Luxury's path to the MSL championship was harder than Fanta's path to the OSL finals,and I thnik there is no player on the world right now that would have fared better against Jaedong than Fantasy did.
Lol... what about Bisu? You think Bisu had less chance than Fanta? Or what about FlaSh? Honestly I'd say that Bisu is 50-50 with JD, and Flash is 45-50 in JD's favor. While fanta would be around 40-50 with JD in a BO5.
To be perfectly honest, I would not give the Bisu I've seen the latest weeks a 50-50 chance against JD with TOTM in the map pool.
No one would be 50-50 against jaedong atm;) But while we're into speculating i think bisu flash and fantasy are the players that has the best chance, simply because bisu and flash are so good and fantasy is scary in bo5 if he's had time for alot of preparation using all his wierd builds.
On April 05 2009 18:36 raga4ka wrote: I still think Luxury should be second . He has shown better results then fantasy this past month .Even thought Fantasy was great in his semis and final , he didn't win and Luxury has the more impressive all - around performance . Fantasy should be third and from there on its enyone's spot .
Lux no way has better overall performances. In fact, Fantasy beat Lux himself in his OSL road. This month,Fantasy showed far more,than Luxury. Perhaps Fantasy wouldn't have beaten Jangbi,but Lux wouldn't have beaten Bisu either,and the point is,he couldn't even beat Fantasy,and don't tell me Luxury's path to the MSL championship was harder than Fanta's path to the OSL finals,and I thnik there is no player on the world right now that would have fared better against Jaedong than Fantasy did.
Lux also beat Fantasy in the WL. Also, what's with saying Lux wouldn't have beaten Bisu? On that map pool + Lux has a winning record against Bisu? Lux can definitely take Bisu in a Bo5, besides that's speculation, we work off what actually happened.
On April 03 2009 18:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: HI DUDES
PR coming this weekend! I've got a night of drinking ahead of me and a hellacious week at work come Monday. StarCraft is, as always, my little hermit world where I retreat when I need to feel infallible. In life, I'm just a regular jackoff. In StarCraft, I'M FAKESTEVE. BOW DOWN.
It should be no surprise who #1 is, in fact the top 5 seem pretty clear-cut. It's been a simple month without much in the way of ambiguous, convoluted results and gameplay. The winners are clear, the losers even clearer.
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeers, it's Friday night
this weekend? That just finished conform the TL calendar
On April 05 2009 18:15 disciple wrote: Bisu has no medals at all? What a convincing point, this is like not putting flash or JD on the top spot because they both won nothing in the last 3 seasons...jee. And after the first game in the Bo3 the only thing that has changed dramatically is the map they were playing on (*cough* ToTM). Skillwise Bisu is right behind JD atm and the gap between those two and all others is huge. But because the PR reflect the monthly performance Bisu should not be #2. Fantasy clearly showed better play than him, but I think it comes to FS to decide if Lux must be #3 or not.
Medal > No Medal. When there is nothing but the last stages of the starleagues going on, what else can you judge off? Bisu is on a 4-game losing streak as I already said. And yeah, I'm not putting Flash high at all. And JD actually won GOM, got second in Arena MSL, won WCG Korea and now won OSL. Your "skillwise" argument is just your opinion, it's the results that matter in the end. Jangbi / Bisu is debatable, but I value a silver more than a semifinal 0-3 in a tournament he never deserved to be in in the first place.
On April 05 2009 18:15 disciple wrote: Bisu has no medals at all? What a convincing point, this is like not putting flash or JD on the top spot because they both won nothing in the last 3 seasons...jee. And after the first game in the Bo3 the only thing that has changed dramatically is the map they were playing on (*cough* ToTM). Skillwise Bisu is right behind JD atm and the gap between those two and all others is huge. But because the PR reflect the monthly performance Bisu should not be #2. Fantasy clearly showed better play than him, but I think it comes to FS to decide if Lux must be #3 or not.
Medal > No Medal. When there is nothing but the last stages of the starleagues going on, what else can you judge off? Bisu is on a 4-game losing streak as I already said. And yeah, I'm not putting Flash high at all. And JD actually won GOM, got second in Arena MSL and now won OSL. Your "skillwise" argument is just your opinion, it's the results that matter in the end. Jangbi / Bisu is debatable, but I value a silver more than a semifinal 0-3.
Your arguments may be good with all the medal thing and stuff but check out previous PRs. JD was #1 even the month where he was outed in the OSL prelims. The top 3 was not always reserved for the champions, not in anyway. Hole another thing is that you try to remove Bisu from any ranking as soon as he screws up a bit. And thats what you haters do. Although Flash gets outperformed by other terrans lately like Leta or fantasy, ppl keep consider him the best player ever to play the game (Artosis) and even put Flash 50-50 vs Bisu and JD when both of them are clearly superior to him at the moment. All I can read from your posts is "remove Bisu from the PR cause I hate him so much" Even if JD somehow manages to screw everything at the beginning of the next season, the PR's discussions would be full with the double standard posts that "thou JD is out he is the best zerg right now and the current OSL champ, he is still #3 etc etc"
Lux is the champ and can beat bisu in bo5, why would anyone claim he can't. Bisu can be third, but if fantasy is placed behind him it would be awkward, those games were beat downs.
On April 05 2009 18:36 raga4ka wrote: I still think Luxury should be second . He has shown better results then fantasy this past month .Even thought Fantasy was great in his semis and final , he didn't win and Luxury has the more impressive all - around performance . Fantasy should be third and from there on its enyone's spot .
Lux no way has better overall performances. In fact, Fantasy beat Lux himself in his OSL road. This month,Fantasy showed far more,than Luxury. Perhaps Fantasy wouldn't have beaten Jangbi,but Lux wouldn't have beaten Bisu either,and the point is,he couldn't even beat Fantasy,and don't tell me Luxury's path to the MSL championship was harder than Fanta's path to the OSL finals,and I thnik there is no player on the world right now that would have fared better against Jaedong than Fantasy did.
Lol... what about Bisu? You think Bisu had less chance than Fanta? Or what about FlaSh? Honestly I'd say that Bisu is 50-50 with JD, and Flash is 45-50 in JD's favor. While fanta would be around 40-50 with JD in a BO5.
Do they teach math where you came from?
Although I agree with you if I understood you correctly.
On April 03 2009 18:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: HI DUDES
PR coming this weekend! I've got a night of drinking ahead of me and a hellacious week at work come Monday. StarCraft is, as always, my little hermit world where I retreat when I need to feel infallible. In life, I'm just a regular jackoff. In StarCraft, I'M FAKESTEVE. BOW DOWN.
It should be no surprise who #1 is, in fact the top 5 seem pretty clear-cut. It's been a simple month without much in the way of ambiguous, convoluted results and gameplay. The winners are clear, the losers even clearer.
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeers, it's Friday night
this weekend? That just finished conform the TL calendar
For someone that has 90% of his posts in the PR threads I would expect you to be aware of 3 things:
1. Delays happen, usually because RL > TL.
2. It's still Sunday in America. Steve is in Thailand and I think it's just about midnight Sunday there.
On April 06 2009 01:23 Magic84 wrote: Lux is the champ and can beat bisu in bo5, why would anyone claim he can't. Bisu can be third, but if fantasy is placed behind him it would be awkward, those games were beat downs.
Bisu, the same one that stood toe-to-toe with Jaedong? Please.
On April 06 2009 01:23 Magic84 wrote: Lux is the champ and can beat bisu in bo5, why would anyone claim he can't. Bisu can be third, but if fantasy is placed behind him it would be awkward, those games were beat downs.
Bisu, the same one that stood toe-to-toe with Jaedong? Please.
Lux has a winning record against Bisu+ on the current map pool he definitely can beat Bisu.
On April 06 2009 01:23 Magic84 wrote: Lux is the champ and can beat bisu in bo5, why would anyone claim he can't. Bisu can be third, but if fantasy is placed behind him it would be awkward, those games were beat downs.
Bisu, the same one that stood toe-to-toe with Jaedong? Please.
Yes. I don't think jaedong has that much better zvp than lux.
3-2 over 2 years, none of them a BoX. ToTM yes, Lux will probably win. Otherwise, I doubt it. Saying that Lux can beat Bisu with such confidence is the same as saying Lux has better ZvP than Jaedong.
On April 06 2009 01:23 Magic84 wrote: Lux is the champ and can beat bisu in bo5, why would anyone claim he can't. Bisu can be third, but if fantasy is placed behind him it would be awkward, those games were beat downs.
Bisu, the same one that stood toe-to-toe with Jaedong? Please.
Yes. I don't think jaedong has that much better zvp than lux.
Really?
I completely disagree, the finals vs. Jangbi weren't really a test of ZvP prowess, what indicators are you going by?
Although it could be just a difference of opinion, I honestly doubt it.
Results-wise, Lux has done more than Bisu this month, no one can doubt that. But Bisu isn't far off.
Here is how it should be (in my opinion) 1- Jaedong 2- Luxury 3- Fantasy 4- Bisu 5- Jangbi 6- by.hero 7- Stork From there on I it starts to get difficult to rank. Maybe we could see Flash, July and Leta. I think no other protoss dragon deserves the spot and there is no other zerg powerhouse doing so well either. The only terran that would deserve to be top 10, perhaps in place of July or Leta, is Hwasin.
These are my predictions . Trying to predict PR is quite fun.
On April 06 2009 02:17 JohnBall wrote: Here is how it should be (in my opinion) 1- Jaedong 2- Luxury 3- Fantasy 4- Bisu 5- Jangbi 6- by.hero 7- Stork From there on I it starts to get difficult to rank. Maybe we could see Flash, July and Leta. I think no other protoss dragon deserves the spot and there is no other zerg powerhouse doing so well either. The only terran that would deserve to be top 10, perhaps in place of July or Leta, is Hwasin.
These are my predictions . Trying to predict PR is quite fun.
Skyhigh didn't do much. He single handedly beated Hwasing Oz, which is not really much to talk about once you get past Jaedong. He surely is a rising star, tough. I am hoping that he does well on the next season individual leagues.
On April 06 2009 01:23 Magic84 wrote: Lux is the champ and can beat bisu in bo5, why would anyone claim he can't. Bisu can be third, but if fantasy is placed behind him it would be awkward, those games were beat downs.
Bisu, the same one that stood toe-to-toe with Jaedong? Please.
Yes. I don't think jaedong has that much better zvp than lux.
Lux is sneaky, has some good all-in builds and decent play overall etc but in the lategame you can clearly see how much better jaedong is at zvp.
On April 06 2009 01:23 Magic84 wrote: Lux is the champ and can beat bisu in bo5, why would anyone claim he can't. Bisu can be third, but if fantasy is placed behind him it would be awkward, those games were beat downs.
Bisu, the same one that stood toe-to-toe with Jaedong? Please.
Yes. I don't think jaedong has that much better zvp than lux.
Lux is sneaky, has some good all-in builds and decent play overall etc but in the lategame you can clearly see how much better jaedong is at zvp.
LOL at Lux above BiSu... fanta that is acceptable; but LUX???!!
Lux still has many problems and his victory over Jangbi wasn't impressive... and sorry to say but Lux's ZvP is weaker than JD's; so noway he can beat BiSu when JD barely did.
On April 06 2009 04:51 Shikyo wrote: Luxury's ZvP is amazing.
yeah he's really good. Its one of the best zvp out there. But jaedong....
I don't know why people consider Lux's P v Z outstanding. He is the most all-inish zerg ever. He can't win a macro match against a protoss. He wins most of his matches with all-in hydra's,or ling runby's,or 5pools,or failed all-ins by other players. He has psoitive record against Bisu because he 5pooled him two times and outplayed Bisu once,when he was in shitty form. But when they met on Destination in the PL,he couldn't even attack any of Bisu's bases. He was that dominated in that match. His Z v T and Z v Z are fucking briliant,but his P v Z is nothing special. He is like the most all-inish Zerg ever. His P v Z cannot even be compared to Jaedong's.
Well his zvp is more than nothing special but not comparable to the likes of july and jaedong imo. Being able to secure a win is what matters, even if your style is aggressive.
On April 06 2009 04:51 Shikyo wrote: Luxury's ZvP is amazing.
yeah he's really good. Its one of the best zvp out there. But jaedong....
I don't know why people consider Lux's P v Z outstanding. He is the most all-inish zerg ever. He can't win a macro match against a protoss. He wins most of his matches with all-in hydra's,or ling runby's,or 5pools,or failed all-ins by other players. He has psoitive record against Bisu because he 5pooled him two times and outplayed Bisu once,when he was in shitty form. But when they met on Destination in the PL,he couldn't even attack any of Bisu's bases. He was that dominated in that match. His Z v T and Z v Z are fucking briliant,but his P v Z is nothing special. He is like the most all-inish Zerg ever. His P v Z cannot even be compared to Jaedong's.
Obviously no one would ever ever go for rush builds in a Bo5, right?! Now if you said "Lux can't beat Bisu in a Bo5 if he played standard" then I would agree with you, but then everyone plays to their strengths like Fantasy, so just by playing nonstandard doesn't make his ZvP any worse.
A wise man once said that if you are not confidant in playing a given MU you are very aggressive early-game in it (like dt rushin, 5 pool stuff like that). And it totally makes sense. Lux has 0 improvement since he lost to BeSt like 3 seasons ago, he is doing the same shit all over again with the excuse of "I did this 2 hatch hydra all-in just to remind the toss players the strat is still valid" (post-match interview from the WL playoff against SKT). Well thank you very much sir. Ppl think Lux has a decent ZvP because he indeed produced some results in it (like winning MSL and WCG) but Effort for example has much more skill and understanding when it comes to this MU
Its his style. If it gives him wins then he's obviously good at that style. There are lots of other gamers better than him at other styles but you can't hold it against him.
On April 06 2009 04:51 Shikyo wrote: Luxury's ZvP is amazing.
yeah he's really good. Its one of the best zvp out there. But jaedong....
I don't know why people consider Lux's P v Z outstanding. He is the most all-inish zerg ever. He can't win a macro match against a protoss. He wins most of his matches with all-in hydra's,or ling runby's,or 5pools,or failed all-ins by other players. He has psoitive record against Bisu because he 5pooled him two times and outplayed Bisu once,when he was in shitty form. But when they met on Destination in the PL,he couldn't even attack any of Bisu's bases. He was that dominated in that match. His Z v T and Z v Z are fucking briliant,but his P v Z is nothing special. He is like the most all-inish Zerg ever. His P v Z cannot even be compared to Jaedong's.
His ZvP macro has impressed me the most out of all the Zergs except possibly July :/
On April 06 2009 04:15 verzisor wrote: LOL at Lux above BiSu... fanta that is acceptable; but LUX???!!
Lux still has many problems and his victory over Jangbi wasn't impressive... and sorry to say but Lux's ZvP is weaker than JD's; so noway he can beat BiSu when JD barely did.
yeah, Lux has a weaker ZvP than JD, and JD barely defeat Bisu, but that certainly doesnt mean that Lux cannot defeat Bisu
On April 06 2009 04:15 verzisor wrote: LOL at Lux above BiSu... fanta that is acceptable; but LUX???!!
Lux still has many problems and his victory over Jangbi wasn't impressive... and sorry to say but Lux's ZvP is weaker than JD's; so noway he can beat BiSu when JD barely did.
A gold medal is better than an 0-3 semis stomping. Everyone knows that only JD, Flash, and maybe a couple up-and-comers like by.hero and Leta can play on the same level as Bisu, but it means jack all if Bisu isn't playing at his usual top form. Bisu has been getting trashed by his former 'bonjwa' level match up in Zerg, is getting wrecked 0-3 in PvT when titles are on the line, and only has his PvP showings lately to show for his trouble.
He's capable of being on top of everyone in the PR, but this month? After getting trashed 0-3, while Lux goes to dominate an MSL final and come up with the gold?
Is it just me or is it that out of all the OSL and MSL winners, Luxury just seems to be at a notch lower? To me he seems to be the only player who's won a league and yet still wouldn't stand a chance against a lot of the stronger players.
On April 06 2009 11:00 writer22816 wrote: Is it just me or is it that out of all the OSL and MSL winners, Luxury just seems to be at a notch lower? To me he seems to be the only player who's won a league and yet still wouldn't stand a chance against a lot of the stronger players.
On April 06 2009 05:47 Atrioc wrote: Of the 20 MSL's ever played, only 7 of them do not have a bonjwa (Boxer/Oov/Nada/Savior) appearance in the finals.
Of those 7, six of those finals contained either Bisu or Jaedong. If you count Bisu/Jaedong together as a two-person Bonjwa because of their high level of dominance over the scene, then Jangbi vs, Luxury is the only MSL ever in which a dominant player did not appear in the MSL finals
On April 06 2009 11:00 writer22816 wrote: Is it just me or is it that out of all the OSL and MSL winners, Luxury just seems to be at a notch lower? To me he seems to be the only player who's won a league and yet still wouldn't stand a chance against a lot of the stronger players.
Well, Luxury did have really, really good maps for zvp in the finals. Neo Harmony twice wtf?
While I would agree that Lux is a notch lower, I wouldn't say that he wouldn't stand a chance against a lot of the stronger players. Firstly by "a lot of the stronger players" I assume you mean "three people" and while Lux wouldn't be the favorite against Flash/Bisu/JaeDong I would certainly give him a chance.
I wouldn't give him a chance vs Jaedong, but that's not really saying anything bad about Lux. I mean he is on a 6 game losing streak vs him. Against Flash, he was the one that took him down during his hot hot streak last year so he has a definite chance against him. Against Bisu, he can always cheese since he's so good at it.
You can't say that Luxury is the underdog against Bisu or Flash unless they fight it out in the future . Luxury should be # 2 his performance in the past 2 months has been greater then Fantasy . Even if fantasy eliminated him in the OSL Ro8 2 - 1 series , at that time Luxury was practising for MSL and WL also . Fantasy was obviously practising for WL too , but in the end Luxury eliminated SKT from the playoffs by beating him and Best and made their recent record vs each other 2 - 2 . Luxury played a really solid final against JangBi and thats why he won . I think if Luxury plays Fantasy next time he will squash him , because he will be prepared better against Fantasy's builds compared to the Ro8's games .
On April 06 2009 18:47 raga4ka wrote: You can't say that Luxury is the underdog against Bisu or Flash unless they fight it out in the future . Luxury should be # 2 his performance in the past 2 months has been greater then Fantasy . Even if fantasy eliminated him in the OSL Ro8 2 - 1 series , at that time Luxury was practising for MSL and WL also . Fantasy was obviously practising for WL too , but in the end Luxury eliminated SKT from the playoffs by beating him and Best and made their recent record vs each other 2 - 2 . Luxury played a really solid final against JangBi and thats why he won . I think if Luxury plays Fantasy next time he will squash him , because he will be prepared better against Fantasy's builds compared to the Ro8's games .
If we take into consideration that Lux played well in the last three months,he can be no2. If we take into consideration only this month,than Fantasy should be above Lux,because he played godly starcraft.
dunno why people think Luxury should be going up to 2nd or 3rd. He didn't play the best sc players to get to the msl finals. He beat Jangbi 3-1 but Jangbi's worst mu is z.
Luxury would get beaten by Flash and Bisu most of the time, and he would have no chance against Jaedong in a bo5.
Imo Luxury should go down to 5th or 6th.
jaedong 1st Fantasy 2nd Bisu 3rd Flash 4th Luxury 5th jangbi 6th Stork 7th Leta 8th
On April 06 2009 23:04 stroggos wrote: dunno why people think Luxury should be going up to 2nd or 3rd. He didn't play the best sc players to get to the msl finals. He beat Jangbi 3-1 but Jangbi's worst mu is z.
Luxury would get beaten by Flash and Bisu most of the time, and he would have no chance against Jaedong in a bo5.
Imo Luxury should go down to 5th or 6th.
jaedong 1st Fantasy 2nd Bisu 3rd Flash 4th Luxury 5th jangbi 6th Stork 7th Leta 8th
Common people... luxury doesn't have a brilliant ZvP and his win of MSL wasn't something brilliant. Therefore I think the rank should be like this:
1. Jaedong 2. Fantasy 3. Bisu 4. Luxury 5. Jangbi 6. FlaSh 7. NaDa 8. Skyhigh 9. By.hero (he deserves it) 10. Stork or Leta Even though FlaSh has the potential to be top3 with Bisu, and JD he is currently under performing. Bisu clearly can't be number 1 since he recently lost to both fanta and JD. However I'd like to say that currently BiSu and JD are monsters and the absolute best match would be a BO5 between the two.
On April 06 2009 23:04 stroggos wrote: dunno why people think Luxury should be going up to 2nd or 3rd. He didn't play the best sc players to get to the msl finals. He beat Jangbi 3-1 but Jangbi's worst mu is z.
Luxury would get beaten by Flash and Bisu most of the time, and he would have no chance against Jaedong in a bo5.
Imo Luxury should go down to 5th or 6th.
jaedong 1st Fantasy 2nd Bisu 3rd Flash 4th Luxury 5th jangbi 6th Stork 7th Leta 8th
On April 06 2009 23:04 stroggos wrote: dunno why people think Luxury should be going up to 2nd or 3rd. He didn't play the best sc players to get to the msl finals. He beat Jangbi 3-1 but Jangbi's worst mu is z.
Luxury would get beaten by Flash and Bisu most of the time, and he would have no chance against Jaedong in a bo5.
Imo Luxury should go down to 5th or 6th.
jaedong 1st Fantasy 2nd Bisu 3rd Flash 4th Luxury 5th jangbi 6th Stork 7th Leta 8th
Wow fanboy
Why is Fantasy 2nd? Luxury should be in top 3 for Winning MSL even if he is not as strong as others still this is monthly performance rank
Bisu should be like 3rd because he was on fire till he lost to fantasy 0-3, and thats like the only real serious loss he had for a while now. Flash should probably be rank 5
I am a Bisu fanboy,but considering his monthly performance,he doesn't deserve a better place than 4th,and some people might even think Jangbi should be higher. I am not one of those people. I also think that Fantasy should be above Luxury,and exactly because of his monthly performance was better. Even tho Fantasy only was second in OSL,he played tremendously this month. He beat Lux in the OSL,stomped Bisu,and not just because of the maps,because he played fucking brilliant,and Lux had advantageous maps against Jangbi too. And Fantasy did a fucking brilliant job against Jaedong. He also won two games in WL. Okay,I know Lux did that too. But if we take into consideration the special events too,Lux didn't won a single game on them.
For quick reference of everyone here, these are all the games since the last PR for Fantasy, Luxury, Bisu, Jangbi, and Jaedong. I've bolded the non All Star Race Battle games and records for those who wish to treat those results differently (I would take those results with a grain of salt, but that's just me).
Fantasy Overall: 9 - 6 Lost to Kal in Winner's League Beat Luxury 2-1 in OSL Beat HoeJJa in Winner's League (Playoffs) Beat Flash in Winner's League (Playoffs) Lost to Luxury in Winner's League (Playoffs) Beat Bisu 3-0 in OSL Lost to Jaedong 2-3 in the OSL (Finals)
Luxury Overall: 9 - 6 (9 - 8) Lost to Leta in Winner's League Lost to Fantasy 1-2 in OSL Lost to Nbs in Winner's League Beat ZerO 3-0 in MSL Beat Fantasy in Winner's League (Playoffs) Beat BeSt in Winner's League (Playoffs) Beat JangBi 3-1 in MSL (Finals) Lost to Jaedong in Winner's League (Playoffs) Lost to Leta in Z v T Special Race Battle Lost to Stork in Z v P Special Race Battle
Bisu Overall: 8 - 5 (12 - 6) Beat Kal in Winner's League Lost to by.hero in Winner's League Beat BeSt 2-0 in OSL Beat NaDa in Winner's League Beat Mind in Winner's League Beat keke in Winner's League Beat RorO in Winner's League (All Kill) Beat 815 in Winner's League (Playoffs) Lost to HoeJJa in Winner's League (Playoffs) Lost to Fantasy 0-3 in OSL Lost to sAviOr in Z v P Special Race Battle Beat Flash in P v T Special Race Battle Beat NaDa in P v T Special Race Battle Beat Leta in P v T Special Race Battle Beat Hwasin in P v T Special Race Battle (All Kill)
Jangbi Overall: 8 - 6 (8 - 7) Lost to HiyA in Winner's League Beat NaDa 3-2 in MSL Beat Really in Winner's League Beat Stork 3-0 in MSL Lost to Luxury 1-3 in MSL(Finals) Lost to July in Z v P Special Race Battle
Jaedong Overall: 16-4 Beat Stork 2-1 in OSL Beat Light in Winner's League Beat HoeJJa in Winner's League (Playoffs) Beat fOrGG in Winner's League (Playoffs) Beat Luxury in Winner's League (Playoffs) Beat Flash in Winner's League (Playoffs)(All Kill) Beat by.hero 3-0 in OSL Beat EffOrt in Winner's League (Playoffs) Beat Iris in Winner's League (Playoffs) Beat sAviOr in Winner's League (Playoffs) Lost to sKyHigh in Winner's League (Playoffs) Beat Fantasy 3-2 in OSL (Finals)
I think the results pretty clearly point to JD being #1, no one's really debating that one...
From there, it's open to debate, but taking the results in context, I think it's:
2. Luxury 3. Fantasy 4. Bisu 5. JangBi
but I think 2 - 4 are all completely up for debate. I just think that Bisu's wins aren't terribly impressive and his losses to Fantasy and HoeJJa are so anti-cluch that he doesn't merrit a place above Fantasy or Luxury, who both came up bigger when it mattered. For Lux vs. Fantasy, I could understand Fantasy being #2 for posting the same record vs. harder competition, but a championship's a championship so, meh, I think he should be 2 but my heart wouldn't be broken seeing Fantasy at 2.
RE: Lux's ZvP: Luxury's ZvP is currently elo #3 after July and Jaedong with career 58.82% ZvP win rate. You don't have to like the way he plays the matchup, but there's no questioning that it gets the job done.
sKyHigh was 5-0 in Winner's League since last PR and carried his team to a championship. Regardless of how the games played out, reverse All-Killing for the championship is pretty damn noteworthy and I think he should be #6 for this. + Show Spoiler +
And for what it's worth he beat Rage in GOM too =p
On April 06 2009 23:53 verzisor wrote: Common people... luxury doesn't have a brilliant ZvP and his win of MSL wasn't something brilliant. Therefore I think the rank should be like this:
1. Jaedong 2. Fantasy 3. Bisu 4. Luxury 5. Jangbi 6. FlaSh 7. NaDa 8. Skyhigh 9. By.hero (he deserves it) 10. Stork or Leta Even though FlaSh has the potential to be top3 with Bisu, and JD he is currently under performing. Bisu clearly can't be number 1 since he recently lost to both fanta and JD. However I'd like to say that currently BiSu and JD are monsters and the absolute best match would be a BO5 between the two.
I think this makes the most sense. In fact it's darn near perfect. Didn't Bisu completely destroy Luxury during his game with him in the OSL? Besides, if you had to choose a player to win against someone else in a Bo5, would you *really* choose Luxury over Bisu? Really???
My other alternative power ranking goes something like this: 1. Bisu 2. Bisu 3. Bisu 4. ... ah screw it
I'd honestly say put Skyhigh up below the obvious top 5 (All finalists and Bisu's generally good record) at #6. None of the others have done much, even if they're all still beasts. Skyhigh, essentially, won a championship by himself, even if it isn't as important as OSL and MSL, so I'd put him right under all the top showers in OSL/MSL (with the exception of by.hero, who wasn't even on the rank before and since, even though playing well, didn't do much. Admittedly, no one expects a good showing when your next big match is ZvZ vs Jaedong).
"Didn't Bisu completely destroy Luxury during his game with him in the OSL?" No that was Yarnc
"Besides, if you had to choose a player to win against someone else in a Bo5, would you *really* choose Luxury over Bisu? Really???" Yes since Luxury gets a lot of wins from cheesing Bisu and it worked two times to date. Plus this is a best of five and Luxury is really good at rush builds and he boasts a positive record against Bisu. However, this is irrelevant since we are talking about performance this month and not speculative Bo5s which should NEVER be used as the basis for an argument on the PR Sorry, I wouldn't choose Luxury over Bisu in a Bo5, but there's no denying Luxury outclassed Bisu in performance in every regard except the OSL, which is arguable since at least he took a game off Fantasy. Again though, Placement on the PR does not depend on speculative Bo5s.
On April 07 2009 04:53 LxRogue wrote: #2 is the only logical spot for Luxury. Maybe you could argue that Bisu is still ahead of him, but i wouldn't agree.
Flash? He has done nothing, he should either stay at 5 or drop to 6.
Fantasy? He played some great games, but i don't think he should just shoot to #2 given his somewhat inconsistent play.
My rank would be: 1. Jaedong 2. Luxury 3. Bisu 4. Fantasy 5. Jangbi 6. Flash 7. Stork 8. By.Hero 9. Leta 10. Skyhigh
Bisu/Fantasy placement is tough, and could go the other way. Spot 9 and 10 are also hard to fill.
I would always disagree with such a high placement of Luxury, because I dont like his style, especially his ZvP, no matter how effective he is I dont consider him a good player in this MU. But all in all I'm totally with on your PR picks, in fact I would only switch Lux and fantasy...but I guess it would be irrational
Yeah, I don't really think it's a matter of who you like, otherwise Stork would never be on the list, ever.
I mean I could say I hate Jaedong more than anyone who plays right now. Maybe I just despise Mutalisks, but that doesn't mean Jaedong doesn't deserve to be No. 1. He's got the results and the title to back it up, just like Luxury.
I think sKyHigh has to 6 because he's the only player after the top 5 with any notable wins in games that actually mattered.
For the month, here are the records of the other players that are commonly in 6-10 on personal lists:
Flash: 3-3 (4-4 with race battle) by.hero: 3-4 Stork: 4-6 (7-8 with race battle) Leta: 2-1 (no games since March 2...)(5-2 with race battle) NaDa: 2-4 sKyHigh: 5-0 (including GOM vs. Rage + Show Spoiler +
7-1
)
I understand that how the games played and who they were against and stuff needs to factor in too, but results are results and after the top 5, sKyHigh's the only one with anything worth talking about.
I vaguely recall FakeSteve saying something about the criteria for Power Rank being based on who you would most want to have in a BoX series. Maybe my memory's failing me, but then what exactly is the criteria?
Also I wouldn't put too much (edited: stock) in Luxury taking a game from Fantasy while Bisu didn't. History has shown matchups between teammates are highly unpredictable and based on somewhat different factors than normal matchups.
Luxury and Fantasy played 4 times this past month and split 2-2 (Fantasy won 2-1 in OSL, Luxury took Fantasy out in Winner's League playoffs), so uh... yea... not only would I put money on Luxury taking games off Fantasy, he already has
On April 07 2009 05:23 latent wrote: I vaguely recall FakeSteve saying something about the criteria for Power Rank being based on who you would most want to have in a BoX series. Maybe my memory's failing me, but then what exactly is the criteria?
Also I wouldn't put too much (edited: stock) in Luxury taking a game from Fantasy while Bisu didn't. History has shown matchups between teammates are highly unpredictable and based on somewhat different factors than normal matchups.
That was Manifesto's subjective ranking for February.
On February 02 2009 10:19 Manifesto7 wrote: First of all, I will be writing the Power Rank this month as Steve is busy with his real life obligations. (Travel safe buddy). I am posting this today, a mere two weeks after the last PR, to get the column back on a monthly schedule.
Because there has only been two weeks, there have not been many games played. So, consider this a "mini-PR", focusing on recent Winners League performances and my own interpretation of things. How I choose to calculate the Power Rank may be slightly different than how others have done it. Bear with me while I explain my thought process.
Imagine you are walking down the street when suddenly time and space rips open, sucking you into the vortex of an alternate universe. In this universe, there exists only you, Darth Vader, and the Korean progamers. You brace for the inevitable neck squeeze when you discover to your relief, the force does not work here.
You and Vader have a sit-down. It is obvious that the universe is only big enough for one of you. You decide to each choose one progamer to represent each other for one game, with the loser being killed and cast into oblivion.
The Power Rank consist not of the top ten who you would choose to play for you, but the top ten scariest opponents that Lord Vader could choose to end your life and suck your soul.
Good Luck.
That's the manifesto quote...
I dunno, that one's kinda funny to me cause that PR had Leta on top, and honestly, I think that that particular PR seemed more results based than others (still loved it, I just don't really think it was really following it's own criteria cause well... what evidence was there that Leta was more scary than Jaedong or Bisu at that point?)
On April 07 2009 06:23 stroggos wrote: skyhigh fended off a 5 pool then beat 3 people that you would expect him to beat on a good day.
I wouldn't put him in top 10.
why not include him in the 6-10 range? I agree about not putting him in the top 5 but 6-10 is full of blah players. You can make a (weak)case for flash/stork and maybe a few others ahead, but at least skyhigh put up some results.
On April 07 2009 06:23 stroggos wrote: skyhigh fended off a 5 pool then beat 3 people that you would expect him to beat on a good day.
I wouldn't put him in top 10.
putting aside the fact that it was Jaedong 5 pooling and that sKyHigh isn't definitively better than HiYa, this has also been a slow month for games of any meaning.
If you can give me good reasons from March to put anyone else above him besides JD, Bisu, Fantasy, JangBi, and Luxury, I'll be the first to admit he should be lower than 6, but from what I'm seeing, there's no one else who did anything to write home about in March.
btw looking back to previous PRs - Guess what was the position of JD in the month when he got 0-3 by ForGG and outplayed by han in straight games for the OSL prelims... #2 (That month he went smth like 11-4 ? including 6 GOM games...note that the games vs han are not included in TLPD)
On April 07 2009 06:23 stroggos wrote: skyhigh fended off a 5 pool then beat 3 people that you would expect him to beat on a good day.
I wouldn't put him in top 10.
A 5 pool from Jaedong...
You have to also keep in mind the pressure he was under. Skyhigh has consistently played rather well in PL at least and has shown to be rather solid.
He was forced to reverse AK Lecaf in the finals... that's serious pressure and he pulled through.
but this still does not justify putting him above players such as by.hero, nada and stork. put skyhigh in #9 or 10 spot, but it owuld be a disservice to players like these three who made it far in the starleagues. stork double birthed into ro8 of osls (knocked out 1-2 by jaedong, but his first game was good) where he frekaing had to meet up with eventual winner of the league and in MSL ran into jangbi, who just outplayed him. but its like stork > bisu > jangbi.. its odd newayz.. i am digressing. by.hero made quite a splash in this osl, beating hwasin with flare, having awesome z v p against bisu and such. nada... oh my god, i thoguht he would get rolled over by jangbi, but boy did he bring his A game to town. if it was any other toss, i am 99% sure that nada woulda advanced to the finals, probably won the whole damn msl. but alas, it aint so.
yes skyhigh needed nerves to reverse all kill hwanseung, but 2 of the tosses were complete scrubs and hiya choked. jaedong failed a really huge cheese, so i don't really count that towards his resume. he still hasn't done shit otherwise though, besides proleague contributions.
On April 07 2009 05:01 TwoToneTerran wrote: I'd honestly say put Skyhigh up below the obvious top 5 (All finalists and Bisu's generally good record) at #6. None of the others have done much, even if they're all still beasts. Skyhigh, essentially, won a championship by himself, even if it isn't as important as OSL and MSL, so I'd put him right under all the top showers in OSL/MSL (with the exception of by.hero, who wasn't even on the rank before and since, even though playing well, didn't do much. Admittedly, no one expects a good showing when your next big match is ZvZ vs Jaedong).
I think that the Winner's League finals is as big as events come. To sit down with your team down 3-0 and pull through a win is an absolutely phenomenal performance that counts for a lot. Skyhigh had a good month otherwise, and I think his WL clutch is on par with a quarter-final starleague appearance. By this metric, he should be #6. As much as this hurts me (as a Jaedong fan) the kid earned it.
My list:
1. Jaedong - I don't even need to justify this one 2. Luxury - A Starleague win is a starleague win. He managed a tough series against Leta, dominated Zero, and Jangbi isn't exactly a push-over. 3. Fantasy - His run to the OSL finals was impressive, and he played very well on the final stage. Not enough for gold, and that's what puts him below our other contestants. 4. Jangbi - Say what you will about a potential BoX vs Bisu, one player made it to the finals, and the other got 3-0ed in the semis. That's results for you. 5. Bisu - Despite dropping the ball, Bisu still shows streaks of the Bonjwa that wasn't and it would be crazy to put him any lower. 6. Skyhigh - Stakes don't come much higher than the Winner's League finals, and when his team was down 0-3, he sat down and delivered one of the most impressive performances in recent memory. His month was also more solid all around than other Starleague placers, but I think his clutch shot in the WL is worth a quarter finals trip, and he had a better month otherwise. 7. Stork - A trip to the OSL semis and MSL quarters is easily enough to warrant this placement, though getting thrashed by Janbgi doesn't help his case. 8. By.Hero - Jaedong shit all over him, but a trip to the semis, an impressive show against Hwasin, and a win against Bisu are enough to warrant this placement. 9. Nada - A heart filled and impressive BO5 against Jangbi earns you this spot. 10. Flash - Flash had an impressive three kill against OGN, then dropped the ball in every other WL game. If he wasn't such a scary player, I'd throw him off the rank.
CBNC
Zero - 1-6 in the month of march. A trip to the semis is worth something. It's worth me mentioning how very very bad you were this month in this CBNC.
Leta - A dull month. Still a powerful player who will be back again.
Yarnc - Nice all-kill against Air Force. WIth it, you managed something that others in this PR couldn't. Namely a winning record.
Also no new power rank, two days after promised. File this under not surprised.
Call me ungrateful, but in a site filled with rabid fans who would jump on the chance to do a Power Rank, why do we entrust it to the one guy who's always late? Sorry, but his power ranks aren't good enough to justify the nonstop torrent of heartbreak and tardiness that accompanies them.
fuck, still no power rank. who woulda thunk? jaedong luxury fantasy jangbi (interchable) bisu (these two are interchangable) by.hero nada stork skyhigh flash
On April 07 2009 06:23 stroggos wrote: skyhigh fended off a 5 pool then beat 3 people that you would expect him to beat on a good day.
I wouldn't put him in top 10.
why not include him in the 6-10 range? I agree about not putting him in the top 5 but 6-10 is full of blah players. You can make a (weak)case for flash/stork and maybe a few others ahead, but at least skyhigh put up some results.
ok maybe it would put him in 8-10. The fact is it's only a month of starcraft games and many of the 6-10 players have had most of their games against the top 1-5 players. By.Hero, Leta, Stork are good examples. And then theres the people who havn't really played much or got knocked out of the starleagues early by good players, but who are still pretty good, like yarnc/Kal/. Its harder imo, to beat 1 Top 5 player than 3 top 20-100 players and a 5 pool.
1. Jaedong, duh 2. Luxury, MSL win is and MSL win, he wont be anywhere near here next month though. 3. Bisu. FACE IT he LET FANTASY WIN!!!!! did everyone here NOT see him manhandle 4 Terrans in a row in the PvT special match? FLash, Leta, Hwasin AND Nada. He's a beast. 4. Fantasy: showed awesome skills vs Jaedong, but just doesnt have the killer in him 5. Jangbi: Meh meh and more meh, I foresee Jangbi's fall from grace (psuedo grace anyways) he's confidence is shattered. 6. Skyhigh: Mark my words boys and girls, this man will win a title. 7: Stork: God i fucking HATE stork, but hey he got to a finals and can play good, but god i hate him 8: by.Hero: might come back after being shit all over by Jaedong, but who cares, he'll probably just run into someone else who'll fuck him in the ass with a rake. 9: Flash: Still beastly, watch for him this season, something tells me he'll be back with a vengeance 10. Nada: we'll miss you buddy, last time I expect to see this Legacy of a player perform so well
Fakesteve should really stop making promises on when a PR comes out. If you have more important obligations in real-life (which is of course understandable), please just say so and let someone else write it.
ON APRIL 7 Some Dipshit wrote As it happens, Stork and Flash did play each other a few days ago, and Flash gave Stork a thorough lesson in Starcraft. So no.
Yes i am aware of that: Did flash make it into a semi? NO. Did FLash get eliminated from two Leagues in two days? Yes. Did Bisu proceed to show all Protoss how to defeat Terran in every single way? Yes. Did i MENTION THAT I FUCKING WATCHED THE TVP GAME ?! YES!!! Think before you speak, now go pack me a cone.
Stork faced only crap players in the rounds he won (and all round his play has been decent at best recently). This fact doesn't excuse Flash from losing key games, but it does make Stork's semifinal advancement a poor indicator of his actual strength.
Why don't you calm down a bit? Bisu probably deserves spot #3 on the next PR. But Bisu's performance has nothing to do with Stork sucking.
On April 07 2009 23:58 purple[time] wrote: I really don't care about bisu taking out The Race wars. Lets face it, Bisu Lost to Savior... TWICE. Let that sink in for a moment.
TWICE
He lost 3-0 to fantasy. Bisu Has just droped to many games to even be in the top five.
I don't even like Bisu, but I don't see any way to argue him being below fifth(and I would probably put him as fourth) thanks to his strong Winners' League preformance along with his OSL semifinal.
ah again the double standard... You see JD lost 0-3 to ForGG for the MSL final and got outed from the OSL prelims by han in straight games, for that he was given the #2 spot the next month. I know I've already said this, but I will post it again and again. Some ppl are just looking for a reason to drop Bisu out as soon as possible
On April 08 2009 00:40 disciple wrote: ah again the double standard... You see JD lost 0-3 to ForGG for the MSL final and got outed from the OSL prelims by han in straight games, for that he was given the #2 spot the next month. I know I've already said this, but I will post it again and again. Some ppl are just looking for a reason to drop Bisu out as soon as possible
He was #2 since no one else played better, I mean the other SL winner was July, who ezed his way through protoss that couldn't PvZ. Luxury faced much harder opponents, so it's not the same situation. Also, JD made the finals, Bisu lost in the semis. However, it's not that Bisu's dropping, but more that other players are rising. Oh yeah, but his argument that Bisu should be lower than fifth is pretty ridiculous.
On April 08 2009 00:40 disciple wrote: ah again the double standard... You see JD lost 0-3 to ForGG for the MSL final and got outed from the OSL prelims by han in straight games, for that he was given the #2 spot the next month. I know I've already said this, but I will post it again and again. Some ppl are just looking for a reason to drop Bisu out as soon as possible
more people look for reasons to keep him high =/
bisu earned 4th or 5th place. It's really between him and Jangbi to me. Do you take a strong series against Jaedong and a strong winners' league round finish, along with the crash and burn in the playoffs and OSL? Or do you take Jangbi doing average towards the end of Winners' League, not even getting his team to the playoffs, and making it all the way to the MSL finals? I think that ?Jangbi has a very slight edge there, but it makes little difference.
On April 08 2009 00:40 disciple wrote: ah again the double standard... You see JD lost 0-3 to ForGG for the MSL final and got outed from the OSL prelims by han in straight games, for that he was given the #2 spot the next month. I know I've already said this, but I will post it again and again. Some ppl are just looking for a reason to drop Bisu out as soon as possible
He was #2 since no one else played better, I mean the other SL winner was July, who ezed his way through protoss that couldn't PvZ. Luxury faced much harder opponents, so it's not the same situation. Also, JD made the finals, Bisu lost in the semis. However, it's not that Bisu's dropping, but more that other players are rising.
yeah, you are making good points but most of the ppl here are just saying Bisu is screwing up badly, and for that doesnt deserve to be in #3. Luxury indeed faced much harder competition than our beloved Tushin, but its still nothing compared to Storks run last season or even the opponents fantasy had to face to become a runner-up this OSL. Fantasy is arguably the only person who can pull out a 3-0 over Bisu atm, and even looking at the overall performance of the players for the last month I can barely find valid point for Lux to be over KTY. If we look back again to this same PR with ForGG on the top, even Flash was in front of July back than. Its a fact that this MSL was an upset-fast with all 3 bonjwa candidates getting outed pretty early, so basically Lux didnt face anyone from the magictrio (bisu,flash,JD) to get his title. Here is the simple summery of Bisu's "awful performance" last month: -sniped by HoeJJa in WL with unorthodox borrow strat on Destination (Remember skyhigh vs JD on the same map?) -3-0d by a teammate in the very first televized match against him. -Losing in the PvZ all stars match against Savior (if you bring up the last point thou you must still bring into consideration his all-kill against the terrans) By all means this was not a month any progamer should be ashamed of. KTY made huge impact in the WL due to his performance and literally carried SKT to the playoffs. JangBi completely skipped WL and lost in the finals again... I dont see why some ppl say he had a better month than KTY
On April 08 2009 00:40 disciple wrote: ah again the double standard... You see JD lost 0-3 to ForGG for the MSL final and got outed from the OSL prelims by han in straight games, for that he was given the #2 spot the next month. I know I've already said this, but I will post it again and again. Some ppl are just looking for a reason to drop Bisu out as soon as possible
He was #2 since no one else played better, I mean the other SL winner was July, who ezed his way through protoss that couldn't PvZ. Luxury faced much harder opponents, so it's not the same situation. Also, JD made the finals, Bisu lost in the semis. However, it's not that Bisu's dropping, but more that other players are rising.
yeah, you are making good points but most of the ppl here are just saying Bisu is screwing up badly, and for that doesnt deserve to be in #3. Luxury indeed faced much harder competition than our beloved Tushin, but its still nothing compared to Storks run last season or even the opponents fantasy had to face to become a runner-up this OSL. Fantasy is arguably the only person who can pull out a 3-0 over Bisu atm, and even looking at the overall performance of the players for the last month I can barely find valid point for Lux to be over KTY. If we look back again to this same PR with ForGG on the top, even Flash was in front of July back than. Its a fact that this MSL was an upset-fast with all 3 bonjwa candidates getting outed pretty early, so basically Lux didnt face anyone from the magictrio (bisu,flash,JD) to get his title. Here is the simple summery of Bisu's "awful performance" last month: -sniped by HoeJJa in WL with unorthodox borrow strat on Destination (Remember skyhigh vs JD on the same map?) -3-0d by a teammate in the very first televized match against him. -Losing in the PvZ all stars match against Savior (if you bring up the last point thou you must still bring into consideration his all-kill against the terrans) By all means this was not a month any progamer should be ashamed of. KTY made huge impact in the WL due to his performance and literally carried SKT to the playoffs. JangBi completely skipped WL and lost in the finals again... I dont see why some ppl say he had a better month than KTY
well said... altough FS might have decided to skip this month, so our discussion mihgt be pointless
On April 08 2009 00:40 disciple wrote:JangBi completely skipped WL and lost in the finals again... I dont see why some ppl say he had a better month than KTY
For the record I think Bisu > Jangbi on this PR, but is it really that hard to see where people are coming from? I mean, I think the argument goes something along the lines of:
Jangbi made the MSL finals, and making the finals > not making the finals
Bisu won 0 medals at the end of the month, and getting 3-0'ed in a matchup that he had previously seemed untouchable in is still getting 3-0'ed, regardless of whether it's his teammate or not.
Again, I still think that Bisu should be above JangBi, but I don't see how it's at all difficult to see where people are coming from. 1 MSL Silver > 0 medals.
Please stop with all the double standard stuff with the Jaedong month stuff too. If you wanna bust that out vs. FS after this rank, go for it, but the people you're arguing with here don't necessarily agree with Jaedong being ranked 2nd that month either.
On April 08 2009 00:40 disciple wrote: ah again the double standard... You see JD lost 0-3 to ForGG for the MSL final and got outed from the OSL prelims by han in straight games, for that he was given the #2 spot the next month. I know I've already said this, but I will post it again and again. Some ppl are just looking for a reason to drop Bisu out as soon as possible
he kept #2 since first off, he fuckign 3-0ed flash in gom, lost 0-3 in MSL FINALS. did bisu make it to any finals? hell no. flash was butt fucked by forgg also. he deserved the #1 spot, and he got it that month. jaedong kept #2 because he still made it to the finals of two leagues, one kespa sanctioned, the other not. he still played really well up until the FINALS and then dropped games to his teammate and dropped a rank. you had best and july in the OSL finals that really didn't display any strength on best's part, and july won because best fucking blows at p v z. july made it to the finals in z v p only, there was hardly z v t for him to play that season. (sorta like casy's run to his osl win, no fucking tosses lol)
but yeah. bisu fucking shouldnt be above fantasy when he got demolished by him. plus fantasy played well throughout his osl. also, bisu fucking failed in WL where it mattered.
I kinda agree, JD's situation was completely different from the situation in which bisu is right now. + there were months when I didn`t understood why the fuck wasn`t Jaedong ranked higher..buy yeah. If ur trying to say that FS is more biased towards JD, you're wrong.
Yeah, saying Bisu should be over Fantasy after being 3-0'd by his teammate would be like saying back when Forgg won the MSL, Jaedong should've been ranked over him after being 3-0'd by his teammate, which isn't true and isn't what happened.
I love how ppl keep dodging the fact that JD got outed by han back then... it simply doesnt matter who buttfucked who in the finals, since JD skipped half of the next season because of his underperformance in the OSL prelims. The 1 Msl silver > 0 medals argument is ridiculously meaningless when it comes to PR, see Kal's ranking after his loss to JD, BeSt was #7 after his OSL finals as well, the list goes on. I mean it will be very logical to say JangBi achieved more than bisu, but as a matter of fact he played really bad, and besides the 3-0 rape vs stork there is absolutely nothing for him to mention. Ofc the situation of Bisu and Jaedong is different, it can never be the same. I've said nowhere in my posts that Bisu should be above fantasy or that he performed better than him in the last month. But the fact is JD kept his extremely high ranking till the point when it became undeniable and obvious that he cant ZvT as he used to. Flash is the same thing. Can you honestly say that Luxury was scarier and looked stronger than Bisu in the last month? I sware if it was Jaedong or Flash in Bisu's position right now, they would've taken the #2/3 spot right away. And I'm so sure because it happened like 20 times already
I run a small business. I have deadlines and I give my employees deadlines. If they dont meet the dealines, they get reprimanded. If they are a week late, they get punished. If they are a week late and say "Sorry mate ill get it in tomorrow morning" and then proceed not to: I FIRE THEIR FUCKING STUPID ASS!!!!!! Teamliquid, if you wanna look professional, get a professional
On April 08 2009 07:18 NeX wrote: I run a small business. I have deadlines and I give my employees deadlines. If they dont meet the dealines, they get reprimanded. If they are a week late, they get punished. If they are a week late and say "Sorry mate ill get it in tomorrow morning" and then proceed not to: I FIRE THEIR FUCKING STUPID ASS!!!!!! Teamliquid, if you wanna look professional, get a professional
They aren't a professional site. You aren't paying them. No one is. I am mildly perturbed by the statements made by Fakesteve saying he would get it done and then nothing happens, but then I realize that I'm on a forum talking about starcraft and I just laugh and go on to something else.
But lol @ the "I run a small business" line. Reminds me of the little kiddies I see that post on the WoW forums.
yea, seriously people, FS doesn't owe you anything. TL leaves him doing this because more people are happy with it than are pissed about it, so w/e, as long as people are satisfied with their free, well-written and entertaining PRs, I see no reason to change. If you can seriously get more than 20 people who give 2 shits about their unofficial FakeSteve Power Rankings being a week late I'd be surprised.
On April 08 2009 08:08 TwoToneTerran wrote: But I'm so mad.
But then you realize that this happens every month so it shouldn't be a surprise. At least he's consistent at being inconsistent. If he keeps on schedule, it'll come out in two days.
On April 05 2009 12:06 Shikyo wrote: Sample size: The Whole Month. it's PR, not Kespa rankings.
"i don't understand the concept of sample size"
i also don't understand why you keep saying "4 game losing streak" like it means something. he's 1-4 in his last 5 official games (you know, you pretty much have to count the win because it happened on the same day as the loss).
and this is what i'm responding to. 4 losses in 5 games means very little. it's highly unlikely bisu is any worse now than when he was considered a borderline "bonjwa" candidate. as avidkeystamper said, it's not whether or not bisu dropped much: it's who surpassed him. jaedong, obviously so. luxury, fantasy...well we'll see. jangbi, haha, no.
On April 08 2009 07:18 NeX wrote: I run a small business. I have deadlines and I give my employees deadlines. If they dont meet the dealines, they get reprimanded. If they are a week late, they get punished. If they are a week late and say "Sorry mate ill get it in tomorrow morning" and then proceed not to: I FIRE THEIR FUCKING STUPID ASS!!!!!! Teamliquid, if you wanna look professional, get a professional
lol
The Power Rank has ALWAYS come out late. I'm curious about it too, but you have to realize that this site is run by volunteers. You want TeamLiquid to fire Fakesteve? "Sorry, but due to the untimely nature in which you write your columns, we will no longer accept all the shit you contribute for free."
On April 05 2009 12:06 Shikyo wrote: Sample size: The Whole Month. it's PR, not Kespa rankings.
"i don't understand the concept of sample size"
i also don't understand why you keep saying "4 game losing streak" like it means something. he's 1-4 in his last 5 official games (you know, you pretty much have to count the win because it happened on the same day as the loss).
and this is what i'm responding to. 4 losses in 5 games means very little. it's highly unlikely bisu is any worse now than when he was considered a borderline "bonjwa" candidate. as avidkeystamper said, it's not whether or not bisu dropped much: it's who surpassed him. jaedong, obviously so. luxury, fantasy...well we'll see. jangbi, haha, no.
I do understand the concept of sample size, but for PR we can't just use the games played during the last 2 years... it's monthly for a reason. 4-game losing streak means that he's lost 4 games in a row instead of won some, unlike Jangbi.
And no, I don't have to count the win, simply because a win isn't part of the losing streak. And when I say "4-game losing streak" it by itself included that he won the game played before those 4 games. Learn what a losing streak means.
On April 08 2009 11:06 AzureEye wrote: Bisu was on fire before he lost to Fantasy and Hoejja.
He made it to #1 PR for last month
He still holds the status as the current best Protoss in the world
His streak of wins before getting stopped by Hoejja was out of this world
I don't see how someone like Bisu can fall more than 2 ranks because of losses to two players, of which, one is a teammate.
mainly because he started dieing out in his play. i dont count the race wars special event because nobody really practiced for that, and stork would have to be much higher due to his double berth and strong play.
but one thing. jaedong is a beast. luxury has been winning in all matchups in his msl run, and he made it to the quarters of the osl to lose to fantasy to boot ontop of his msl championship. fantasy because although he didn't contribute as much in WL, he contributed just as much as bisu in the month of march in WL playoff, one win one loss, albeit against someone alot tougher than some sacraficial zerg lamb to bisu in set 1. plus, when these two met up, it wasnt just the fact that he lost, he got fucking demolished, even if it was a teammate. bisu didn't show the strong play that he was showing the previous month. and the power rank is about how they are doing RIGHT NOW rather than how they were doing a month or two ago. Bisu and Jangbi are interchangable. bisu started faltering at the semifinals, jangbi failed on the final stage. but up until this point, they were both monsters when it came to winning their individual league games. i know bisu has a better p v z than jangbi, and he probably would have won against lux if they were switched, but i for damn sure know jangbi wouldnt have lost in the fashion bisu did against fantasy. bisu and jangbi are basically equal on rank 4/5, but noway in hell bisu deserves to be higher than fantasy or luxury when they were both playing like there was no tomorrow, fucking demolishing opponenets left and right.
On April 07 2009 17:54 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: POWER RANK IN T-MINUS 7 HOURS
16 HOUR WORK DAYS CANNOT STOP ME FOREVER
FUCK YOU SCORCH, NO POWER RANK CAN EQUAL MINE. YOU WILL WAIT.
T-minus 7 hours my ass rofl
hahaha i know
i wasn't kidding about 16 hour work days
doing the writeup now
It takes a long time for the writeup. Holy shit,I thought that you can make a ranking in 20 minutes at most. But hey,you are motherfucking Fakesteve and you need to take 2 hours to write your perfect rankings.
On April 07 2009 17:54 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: POWER RANK IN T-MINUS 7 HOURS
16 HOUR WORK DAYS CANNOT STOP ME FOREVER
FUCK YOU SCORCH, NO POWER RANK CAN EQUAL MINE. YOU WILL WAIT.
T-minus 7 hours my ass rofl
hahaha i know
i wasn't kidding about 16 hour work days
doing the writeup now
It takes a long time for the writeup. Holy shit,I thought that you can make a ranking in 20 minutes at most. But hey,you are motherfucking Fakesteve and you need to take 2 hours to write your perfect rankings.
On April 08 2009 11:06 AzureEye wrote: Bisu was on fire before he lost to Fantasy and Hoejja.
He made it to #1 PR for last month
He still holds the status as the current best Protoss in the world
His streak of wins before getting stopped by Hoejja was out of this world
I don't see how someone like Bisu can fall more than 2 ranks because of losses to two players, of which, one is a teammate.
he also lost a series to Jaedong at the beginning of the month and lost a game to by.Hero in WL.
If you lose to the current #1 player in the world, it doesn't change your ranking because the #1 is the favorite over anyone
Well, since the new rank isn't up, Bisu is #1 as far as the power rank goes, and all matches he loses are matches he was technically the favor in, if you want to get really technical about favorites and top rankings.
But I don't think anyone wants to disagree about how stomptastic Jaedong is.
On April 05 2009 12:06 Shikyo wrote: Sample size: The Whole Month. it's PR, not Kespa rankings.
"i don't understand the concept of sample size"
i also don't understand why you keep saying "4 game losing streak" like it means something. he's 1-4 in his last 5 official games (you know, you pretty much have to count the win because it happened on the same day as the loss).
and this is what i'm responding to. 4 losses in 5 games means very little. it's highly unlikely bisu is any worse now than when he was considered a borderline "bonjwa" candidate. as avidkeystamper said, it's not whether or not bisu dropped much: it's who surpassed him. jaedong, obviously so. luxury, fantasy...well we'll see. jangbi, haha, no.
I do understand the concept of sample size, but for PR we can't just use the games played during the last 2 years... it's monthly for a reason. 4-game losing streak means that he's lost 4 games in a row instead of won some, unlike Jangbi.
And no, I don't have to count the win, simply because a win isn't part of the losing streak. And when I say "4-game losing streak" it by itself included that he won the game played before those 4 games. Learn what a losing streak means.
it's difficult to tell whether you're being willfully ignorant to be contrary or you actually don't understand despite saying you do.
first off, i never said anything about "games played during the last 2 years." if you understand statistics then you understand that 3 months ago means something, albeit less than 2 months, albeit less than 1 month ago, albeit less than 1 week ago. and if you understand sample size, then you understand 4 games from one week ago probably means less than 50+ games from the past 3 months, aggregate.
and "it's monthly for a reason" is another misconception. player skill doesn't necessarily cycle and change so violently that it occurs monthly. the reason the power rank is monthly is because...well because it has to be updated at some point. for most players, relatively few games have been played this month, which is why there is so much being made out of so few games. an illusion from scarcity.
as for your last point, you didn't understand my argument. i'm saying that you bandying around "4-game losing streak" is useless and pretty much power rank propoganda. i mean, would you say fantasy is on a 3 game losing streak? technically he is, but would you ever use that in an argument? "fantasy is playing poorly lately - he is on a 3 game losing streak." sounds pretty bad, no?
the luxury-bisu-fantasy placement is what will probably be dissected the most, but this was very clear to me for a number of reasons i am going to outline. I think most people will agree
fuck your rank. bisu over fantasy??!!?!. bisu being over jangbi is fine, but over fantasy? FUCKKK that. besides that, why the fuck is flash over stork? they are both playing horribly but at least stork made a double berth in the fucking starleagues. meh, i guess flash pulled through for his team and played a fantastic game against jaedong... okay i see this but meh.
HOW THE FUCK IS BISU OVER FANTASY? bisu lost steam at the end of the month, epicly failing in everything important. how the fuck do you justify this when fantasy clearly has been playing superb? wjptjowapfjewapjfawe
*edit* ugh this tilts me... besides bisu playing monstrous previous month.... i just don't see it. he dropped a game in WL to by.hero yet again, he won against that first zerg of ktf, but lost to their actual sniper of bisu... so bisu went 1-1 in that. fantasy also went 1-1 losing to lux, winning against flash.... blah i just dont understand any reasoning for this fucking placement.
On April 08 2009 15:41 deathgodtoss wrote: fuck your rank. bisu over fantasy??!!?!. bisu being over jangbi is fine, but over fantasy? FUCKKK that. besides that, why the fuck is flash over stork? they are both playing horribly but at least stork made a double berth in the fucking starleagues. meh, i guess flash pulled through for his team and played a fantastic game against jaedong... okay i see this but meh.
HOW THE FUCK IS BISU OVER FANTASY? bisu lost steam at the end of the month, epicly failing in everything important. how the fuck do you justify this when fantasy clearly has been playing superb? wjptjowapfjewapjfawe
*edit* ugh this tilts me... besides bisu playing monstrous previous month.... i just don't see it. he dropped a game in WL to by.hero yet again, he won against that first zerg of ktf, but lost to their actual sniper of bisu... so bisu went 1-1 in that. fantasy also went 1-1 losing to lux, winning against flash.... blah i just dont understand any reasoning for this fucking placement.
How about you calm down first, and wait for FS's reasoning? The games bisu lost (barring his 0-3 loss to fantasy) weren't as rape as you might think, and any bad thought about Bisu's vT being weak should've been changed with his all kill of Terran in the race wars. I'm sure FS has his own reasons as to why he put Bisu above fantasy, as going 2-3 against JAEDONG is surely a plus for him.
Some people just needs to leave FakeSteve alone. I'm sure he has good reasons for putting the players in those orders. I'm not saying that there's nothing wrong about debating. I just think it's rude telling him how it should be done. Besides, I don't think giving our personal opinions is going to change his PR anyways. Just my 2 cents. ^^
That being said, looking forward to the next PR along with statements!
On April 08 2009 22:30 Dice84 wrote: Some people just needs to leave FakeSteve alone. I'm sure he has good reasons for putting the players in those orders. I'm not saying that there's nothing wrong about debating. I just think it's rude telling him how it should be done. Besides, I don't think giving our personal opinions is going to change his PR anyways. Just my 2 cents. ^^
That being said, looking forward to the next PR along with statements!
no one's tellin` him how to be done, it's just personal opinions...and who said that those are gonna change the PR ?! jeez, we shouldn`t talk at all in this topic?
feel free to speculate on my reasoning etc while I do this all over again, in FUCKING MICROSOFT WORD THIS TIME
Wtf? NaDa on 10? Don't get me wrong, I love NaDa as much as the next person but to put him on rank 10 for ONE World Class Series? I don't now about that...
did nada play something ? thought he didnt play for ages, would rate bisu higher than luxury thou oh and just one good "winstreak" by skyhigh vs questionable opponents makes him top10 material ? ?
On April 08 2009 22:30 Dice84 wrote: Some people just needs to leave FakeSteve alone. I'm sure he has good reasons for putting the players in those orders. I'm not saying that there's nothing wrong about debating. I just think it's rude telling him how it should be done. Besides, I don't think giving our personal opinions is going to change his PR anyways. Just my 2 cents. ^^
That being said, looking forward to the next PR along with statements!
FS has said before that the best PR's are the ones that generate the most discussion....he wants us to argue about it.
On April 09 2009 00:30 stroggos wrote:He also dropped out of one of the leagues because he forgot to put an scv back on a factory :S
...and that's a D mistake, I fail to see how this is redeeming at all -_-.
You mean like Fantasy forgetting he had built a wraith?
You mean that one in the Bisu match where he still 3-0ed him?
all I'm saying is that saying someone only dropped a league match cause they made a n00b mistake is not a good reason to discredit the result. if it's like, oh, they only dropped the league cause they were hit by a car and couldn't play, that doesn't reflect poorly on them, but forgetting to get your factory finished and losing because of it reflects pretty poorly on one's play.
On April 08 2009 22:30 Dice84 wrote: Some people just needs to leave FakeSteve alone. I'm sure he has good reasons for putting the players in those orders. I'm not saying that there's nothing wrong about debating. I just think it's rude telling him how it should be done. Besides, I don't think giving our personal opinions is going to change his PR anyways. Just my 2 cents. ^^
That being said, looking forward to the next PR along with statements!
The whole point of the Power Rank is to flame FakeSteve. Flames sustain the Power Rank, they make it stronger. He could make a nice perfect rank, and everybody would come by and agree and say what a correct ranking it was, but where would the fun in that be?
With that said
Bisu OVER Fantasy?!?!
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Bisu Didn't DO ANYTHING worthy of maintaining a spot over Fantasy DESPITE LOSING 0-3. Head to head is the most important consideration of PR, and Bisu doesn't have anything else to show this month that Fantasy doesn't (all-star games really shouldn't count)
I also can't really see putting Flash above Stork.
I am one of those that believe Fantasy > Bisu. Also, Skyhigh does not deserve to be top 10. Take a look at the players he has defeated -> the only decent one is Jaedong. Also, by.hero should be a little bit higher and Flash should be a little bit lower. I would place Hwasin in number 9, instead of Skyhigh.
On April 09 2009 04:28 JohnBall wrote: I am one of those that believe Fantasy > Bisu. Also, Skyhigh does not deserve to be top 10. Take a look at the players he has defeated -> the only decent one is Jaedong. Also, by.hero should be a little bit higher and Flash should be a little bit lower. I would place Hwasin in number 9, instead of Skyhigh.
yea, that's a good point, losing to by.hero in OSL and going 0-2 in special matches is WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better than reverse all killing in the Winner's League finals[/sarcasm]
I also must've missed when HiYa became worse than a decent player, I guess 17-9 in the Winner's League means nothing. -_-
This was a slow month, I honestly thinking 9 is really low for sKyHigh considering he was one of only 4 players who showed up to play in important matches this month (the others being JD, Lux and Fantasy if you've been in a coma for March).
Also, monthly implies once a month, not at the beginning of every month, and if you've been following the power rank for more than 3 months, you know that it's usually released 10 days into the month.
Also, monthly implies once a month, not at the beginning of every month, and if you've been following the power rank for more than 3 months, you know that it's usually released 10 days into the month.
You should check the last 3 month befor you make allusion to it. They came out on the 4th, 2nd and 16th of the respcetive months. Even FakeSteve promised this to come out on 4th/5th (weekned )no matter what
On April 03 2009 18:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: HI DUDES
PR coming this weekend! I've got a night of drinking ahead of me and a hellacious week at work come Monday. StarCraft is, as always, my little hermit world where I retreat when I need to feel infallible. In life, I'm just a regular jackoff. In StarCraft, I'M FAKESTEVE. BOW DOWN.
It should be no surprise who #1 is, in fact the top 5 seem pretty clear-cut. It's been a simple month without much in the way of ambiguous, convoluted results and gameplay. The winners are clear, the losers even clearer.
Also, monthly implies once a month, not at the beginning of every month, and if you've been following the power rank for more than 3 months, you know that it's usually released 10 days into the month.
You should check the last 3 month befor you make allusion to it. They came out on the 4th, 2nd and 16th of the respcetive months. Even FakeSteve promised this to come out on 4th/5th (weekned )no matter what
On April 03 2009 18:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: HI DUDES
PR coming this weekend! I've got a night of drinking ahead of me and a hellacious week at work come Monday. StarCraft is, as always, my little hermit world where I retreat when I need to feel infallible. In life, I'm just a regular jackoff. In StarCraft, I'M FAKESTEVE. BOW DOWN.
It should be no surprise who #1 is, in fact the top 5 seem pretty clear-cut. It's been a simple month without much in the way of ambiguous, convoluted results and gameplay. The winners are clear, the losers even clearer.
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeers, it's Friday night
and here we are, 9th of april
"You should check the last 3 month befor you make allusion to it. They came out on the 4th, 2nd and 16th of the respcetive months."
That's exactly why I said last 3, the last two have uncharacteristically come out near the beginning of the month, so if you've followed the PR for at least three months, then you've followed it during the VERY long period where it came out during the middle of the month.
"Even FakeSteve promised this to come out on 4th/5th (weekned )no matter what" My point has nothing to do with if FS keeps his promise, it deals with the incorrect idea that people except the PR to come out at the beginning of the month before FS said anything.
I still want to know why in website full of people who would be not only willing, but honored to do the Power Rank, why it's stuck with the one person who's is inevitably and irretrievably late.
On April 09 2009 06:05 GeneralStan wrote: I still want to know why in website full of people who would be not only willing, but honored to do the Power Rank, why it's stuck with the one person who's is inevitably and irretrievably late.
wanna see Mr Been played by someone else than ronald atkinson? FS' Power Rank is the monthly highlight in TL
On April 09 2009 06:05 GeneralStan wrote: I still want to know why in website full of people who would be not only willing, but honored to do the Power Rank, why it's stuck with the one person who's is inevitably and irretrievably late.
Other people have subbed in before, (OneOther and Manifesto) and FS wouldn't have been too late this month, but he deleted his entire post and now he has to go to work for another day. =/ Maybe no credible member/staff has volunteered?
Bisu should be below Fantasy for sure. Decisive 3-0 in head to head and Fantasy pushing Jaedong to the bring of elimination certainly warrants a higher placement for Fantasy.
Fantasy should be over Bisu, no question. 3-0 in a series is a strong testament against his being higher. Skyhigh seems awfully low for someone who singlehandedly saved his team from losing the finals (although it was against young and spear). I think if you backspace, you can press alt-forward and it keeps what you've written.
On April 09 2009 07:46 Mogwai wrote: why wouldn't ctrl + z undo the deletion?
he didn't delete it so much as hit the back button on his mouse. That rapes everything you have typed depending upon your browser and a few things. Hitting forward to get back just shows a blank template. I've done it many times on my old mouse. That mouse died a painful death.
On April 09 2009 06:52 NovaTheFeared wrote: Bisu should be below Fantasy for sure. Decisive 3-0 in head to head and Fantasy pushing Jaedong to the bring of elimination certainly warrants a higher placement for Fantasy.
this
i guess losing to jaedong 2-3 > 3-0ing bisu when it comes to negatively impacting your rank.
On April 09 2009 07:46 Mogwai wrote: why wouldn't ctrl + z undo the deletion?
he didn't delete it so much as hit the back button on his mouse. That rapes everything you have typed depending upon your browser and a few things. Hitting forward to get back just shows a blank template. I've done it many times on my old mouse. That mouse died a painful death.
oh ok, I misunderstood... sometimes it doesn't rape what you write, but I think it's site dependent.
On April 09 2009 07:46 Mogwai wrote: why wouldn't ctrl + z undo the deletion?
he didn't delete it so much as hit the back button on his mouse. That rapes everything you have typed depending upon your browser and a few things. Hitting forward to get back just shows a blank template. I've done it many times on my old mouse. That mouse died a painful death.
I just tried alt-left arrow, then alt-right arrow on firefox and it saved what I wrote. What is the difference of using the mouse button?
On April 09 2009 07:46 Mogwai wrote: why wouldn't ctrl + z undo the deletion?
he didn't delete it so much as hit the back button on his mouse. That rapes everything you have typed depending upon your browser and a few things. Hitting forward to get back just shows a blank template. I've done it many times on my old mouse. That mouse died a painful death.
I just tried alt-left arrow, then alt-right arrow on firefox and it saved what I wrote. What is the difference of using the mouse button?
sometimes it works, sometimes it don't. He may use a different OS, different web browser, have different settings on said web browser. There are many variables, but honestly, sometimes it just happens.
I sympathise with FakeSteve. I tend to write a lot on the internet and it is not rare that I lose a huge wall of text beacuse of some silly error. So I completely understand the frustration.
When I was doing the [G] Terran FAQ thread i did the same thing. That shit took me 3 hours to write lol. I got pretty mad about it.. However, it usually gets better the second time.
On April 09 2009 11:34 StylishVODs wrote: When I was doing the [G] Terran FAQ thread i did the same thing. That shit took me 3 hours to write lol. I got pretty mad about it.. However, it usually gets better the second time.
when i'm planning on writing sg long i use world than copy paste it
On April 09 2009 11:34 StylishVODs wrote: When I was doing the [G] Terran FAQ thread i did the same thing. That shit took me 3 hours to write lol. I got pretty mad about it.. However, it usually gets better the second time.
when i'm planning on writing sg long i use world than copy paste it
Yeah I tried that but then everything looks fucked up when I paste it into a TL thread because of different rowlength etc, i didn't know how to fix that;:/
feel free to speculate on my reasoning etc while I do this all over again, in FUCKING MICROSOFT WORD THIS TIME
If you are not going to place Fantasy over Bisu you might as well place JangBi over fantasy also for being the better all - around player . Fantasy while he plays cleverly i can't help to feel that Jaedong messed up his first 2 games pretty badly , but performance wise Fantasy should be over Bisu , skill wise both Bisu and JangBi should be over fantasy . I think Luxury should stay second solid performance won when it counted got revenge on Fantasy in WL a really strong player right now and had a pretty good run in OSL and WL while winning the MSL . Hmm after that crushing 0 - 3 i don't think Bisu deserves #3 more then fantasy .
feel free to speculate on my reasoning etc while I do this all over again, in FUCKING MICROSOFT WORD THIS TIME
If you are not going to place Fantasy over Bisu you might as well place JangBi over fantasy also for being the better all - around player . Fantasy while he plays cleverly i can't help to feel that Jaedong messed up his first 2 games pretty badly , but performance wise Fantasy should be over Bisu , skill wise both Bisu and JangBi should be over fantasy . I think Luxury should stay second solid performance won when it counted got revenge on Fantasy in WL a really strong player right now and had a pretty good run in OSL and WL while winning the MSL . Hmm after that crushing 0 - 3 i don't think Bisu deserves #3 more then fantasy .
Just because JangBi can probably beat Fantasy due to his Monster PvT doesn't mean that he is the overall better player imo
Also, monthly implies once a month, not at the beginning of every month, and if you've been following the power rank for more than 3 months, you know that it's usually released 10 days into the month.
You should check the last 3 month befor you make allusion to it. They came out on the 4th, 2nd and 16th of the respcetive months. Even FakeSteve promised this to come out on 4th/5th (weekned )no matter what
On April 03 2009 18:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: HI DUDES
PR coming this weekend! I've got a night of drinking ahead of me and a hellacious week at work come Monday. StarCraft is, as always, my little hermit world where I retreat when I need to feel infallible. In life, I'm just a regular jackoff. In StarCraft, I'M FAKESTEVE. BOW DOWN.
It should be no surprise who #1 is, in fact the top 5 seem pretty clear-cut. It's been a simple month without much in the way of ambiguous, convoluted results and gameplay. The winners are clear, the losers even clearer.
Also, monthly implies once a month, not at the beginning of every month, and if you've been following the power rank for more than 3 months, you know that it's usually released 10 days into the month.
You should check the last 3 month befor you make allusion to it. They came out on the 4th, 2nd and 16th of the respcetive months. Even FakeSteve promised this to come out on 4th/5th (weekned )no matter what
On April 03 2009 18:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: HI DUDES
PR coming this weekend! I've got a night of drinking ahead of me and a hellacious week at work come Monday. StarCraft is, as always, my little hermit world where I retreat when I need to feel infallible. In life, I'm just a regular jackoff. In StarCraft, I'M FAKESTEVE. BOW DOWN.
It should be no surprise who #1 is, in fact the top 5 seem pretty clear-cut. It's been a simple month without much in the way of ambiguous, convoluted results and gameplay. The winners are clear, the losers even clearer.
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeers, it's Friday night
and here we are, 9th of april
God damn you complain a lot.
very constructive post, thanks. i dont consider acceptable that one of the greatest sc community site's features, the Power Rank, to be late 1 week or more. If you dont care about being late, why do you care if people care? God, if i could see the logic behind ignorance...
Also, monthly implies once a month, not at the beginning of every month, and if you've been following the power rank for more than 3 months, you know that it's usually released 10 days into the month.
You should check the last 3 month befor you make allusion to it. They came out on the 4th, 2nd and 16th of the respcetive months. Even FakeSteve promised this to come out on 4th/5th (weekned )no matter what
On April 03 2009 18:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: HI DUDES
PR coming this weekend! I've got a night of drinking ahead of me and a hellacious week at work come Monday. StarCraft is, as always, my little hermit world where I retreat when I need to feel infallible. In life, I'm just a regular jackoff. In StarCraft, I'M FAKESTEVE. BOW DOWN.
It should be no surprise who #1 is, in fact the top 5 seem pretty clear-cut. It's been a simple month without much in the way of ambiguous, convoluted results and gameplay. The winners are clear, the losers even clearer.
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeers, it's Friday night
and here we are, 9th of april
God damn you complain a lot.
very constructive post, thanks. i dont consider acceptable that one of the greatest sc community site's features, the Power Rank, to be late 1 week or more. If you dont care about being late, why do you care if people care? God, if i could see the logic behind ignorance...
You are aware that FS anciently deleted his post. I totally forgive him for this and why don't you be thankful that they take the time to even write the PR. Being late is not usual.
Also, monthly implies once a month, not at the beginning of every month, and if you've been following the power rank for more than 3 months, you know that it's usually released 10 days into the month.
You should check the last 3 month befor you make allusion to it. They came out on the 4th, 2nd and 16th of the respcetive months. Even FakeSteve promised this to come out on 4th/5th (weekned )no matter what
On April 03 2009 18:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: HI DUDES
PR coming this weekend! I've got a night of drinking ahead of me and a hellacious week at work come Monday. StarCraft is, as always, my little hermit world where I retreat when I need to feel infallible. In life, I'm just a regular jackoff. In StarCraft, I'M FAKESTEVE. BOW DOWN.
It should be no surprise who #1 is, in fact the top 5 seem pretty clear-cut. It's been a simple month without much in the way of ambiguous, convoluted results and gameplay. The winners are clear, the losers even clearer.
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeers, it's Friday night
and here we are, 9th of april
God damn you complain a lot.
very constructive post, thanks. i dont consider acceptable that one of the greatest sc community site's features, the Power Rank, to be late 1 week or more. If you dont care about being late, why do you care if people care? God, if i could see the logic behind ignorance...
Then make your own site, where you are respected and expected to write a ranking, and then do it on time regardless of work and personal activities... Then you can bitch and complain. Until then no one cares about who you are or what you have to say.
Also, monthly implies once a month, not at the beginning of every month, and if you've been following the power rank for more than 3 months, you know that it's usually released 10 days into the month.
You should check the last 3 month befor you make allusion to it. They came out on the 4th, 2nd and 16th of the respcetive months. Even FakeSteve promised this to come out on 4th/5th (weekned )no matter what
On April 03 2009 18:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: HI DUDES
PR coming this weekend! I've got a night of drinking ahead of me and a hellacious week at work come Monday. StarCraft is, as always, my little hermit world where I retreat when I need to feel infallible. In life, I'm just a regular jackoff. In StarCraft, I'M FAKESTEVE. BOW DOWN.
It should be no surprise who #1 is, in fact the top 5 seem pretty clear-cut. It's been a simple month without much in the way of ambiguous, convoluted results and gameplay. The winners are clear, the losers even clearer.
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeers, it's Friday night
and here we are, 9th of april
God damn you complain a lot.
very constructive post, thanks. i dont consider acceptable that one of the greatest sc community site's features, the Power Rank, to be late 1 week or more. If you dont care about being late, why do you care if people care? God, if i could see the logic behind ignorance...
You are aware that FS anciently deleted his post. I totally forgive him for this and why don't you be thankful that they take the time to even write the PR. Being late is not usual.
How do you do things 'anciently'? Wear a toga while you do them?
Also, monthly implies once a month, not at the beginning of every month, and if you've been following the power rank for more than 3 months, you know that it's usually released 10 days into the month.
You should check the last 3 month befor you make allusion to it. They came out on the 4th, 2nd and 16th of the respcetive months. Even FakeSteve promised this to come out on 4th/5th (weekned )no matter what
On April 03 2009 18:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: HI DUDES
PR coming this weekend! I've got a night of drinking ahead of me and a hellacious week at work come Monday. StarCraft is, as always, my little hermit world where I retreat when I need to feel infallible. In life, I'm just a regular jackoff. In StarCraft, I'M FAKESTEVE. BOW DOWN.
It should be no surprise who #1 is, in fact the top 5 seem pretty clear-cut. It's been a simple month without much in the way of ambiguous, convoluted results and gameplay. The winners are clear, the losers even clearer.
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeers, it's Friday night
and here we are, 9th of april
God damn you complain a lot.
very constructive post, thanks. i dont consider acceptable that one of the greatest sc community site's features, the Power Rank, to be late 1 week or more. If you dont care about being late, why do you care if people care? God, if i could see the logic behind ignorance...
You are aware that FS anciently deleted his post. I totally forgive him for this and why don't you be thankful that they take the time to even write the PR. Being late is not usual.
How do you do things 'anciently'? Wear a toga while you do them?
Haha just noticed that. Have gotten use to the luxury of having Firefox auto correct me.
Also, monthly implies once a month, not at the beginning of every month, and if you've been following the power rank for more than 3 months, you know that it's usually released 10 days into the month.
You should check the last 3 month befor you make allusion to it. They came out on the 4th, 2nd and 16th of the respcetive months. Even FakeSteve promised this to come out on 4th/5th (weekned )no matter what
On April 03 2009 18:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: HI DUDES
PR coming this weekend! I've got a night of drinking ahead of me and a hellacious week at work come Monday. StarCraft is, as always, my little hermit world where I retreat when I need to feel infallible. In life, I'm just a regular jackoff. In StarCraft, I'M FAKESTEVE. BOW DOWN.
It should be no surprise who #1 is, in fact the top 5 seem pretty clear-cut. It's been a simple month without much in the way of ambiguous, convoluted results and gameplay. The winners are clear, the losers even clearer.
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeers, it's Friday night
and here we are, 9th of april
God damn you complain a lot.
very constructive post, thanks. i dont consider acceptable that one of the greatest sc community site's features, the Power Rank, to be late 1 week or more. If you dont care about being late, why do you care if people care? God, if i could see the logic behind ignorance...
You are aware that FS anciently deleted his post. I totally forgive him for this and why don't you be thankful that they take the time to even write the PR. Being late is not usual.
Yeah but the idea here is that once he actually sat down and started writing it took like a couple hours for the "deleted everything" post. And now it's two days, even though he already knew what he was typing (once you have made something, even if you lost it, it isn't going to take as long to recreate as you already have a very good idea of what you're making), already has the ranks, etc.
What I'm saying is he's already apparently got most of the work done (the thinking process and reasons), so it shouldn't take more than half an hour to type it back up. I love PRs but they are not very content heavy, and the constant delays at this point, given his excuses, are pretty flimsy.
Also, monthly implies once a month, not at the beginning of every month, and if you've been following the power rank for more than 3 months, you know that it's usually released 10 days into the month.
You should check the last 3 month befor you make allusion to it. They came out on the 4th, 2nd and 16th of the respcetive months. Even FakeSteve promised this to come out on 4th/5th (weekned )no matter what
On April 03 2009 18:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: HI DUDES
PR coming this weekend! I've got a night of drinking ahead of me and a hellacious week at work come Monday. StarCraft is, as always, my little hermit world where I retreat when I need to feel infallible. In life, I'm just a regular jackoff. In StarCraft, I'M FAKESTEVE. BOW DOWN.
It should be no surprise who #1 is, in fact the top 5 seem pretty clear-cut. It's been a simple month without much in the way of ambiguous, convoluted results and gameplay. The winners are clear, the losers even clearer.
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeers, it's Friday night
and here we are, 9th of april
God damn you complain a lot.
very constructive post, thanks. i dont consider acceptable that one of the greatest sc community site's features, the Power Rank, to be late 1 week or more. If you dont care about being late, why do you care if people care? God, if i could see the logic behind ignorance...
You are aware that FS anciently deleted his post. I totally forgive him for this and why don't you be thankful that they take the time to even write the PR. Being late is not usual.
Fakesteve is really busy, i dont understand why can't he ask one of the many moderators/adminstrators again, who shown interest in doing the PR. It's not like FS is the only one who could write it, he is supposed to do it, when he's too busy that's absolutely understandable to ask someone else like Manifesto, Oneother, Deadvessel or someone else
EPT
)
![[image loading]](http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5167/hyvaasg.gif)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/mirror/layout/powerrank.png)
