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Best Player Ever? - Page 7

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 17 Next All
I3oxerfan
Profile Joined January 2008
215 Posts
February 23 2009 08:09 GMT
#121
voted Boxer !!!!!
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
February 23 2009 08:21 GMT
#122
Boxer is undoubtably the greatest player of all time.
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
falls
Profile Joined November 2008
United States168 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-23 08:31:23
February 23 2009 08:27 GMT
#123
All of the players in that poll could win the title...

Nada - Statistically the best player
Savior, Oov - Nigh-invincible during their primes
Boxer - Duh..
Bisu, Jaedong, Flash - Arguably the best players in their respective races
Go SaviOr and Stork!
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
February 23 2009 08:45 GMT
#124
Oh darn, I autovoted Boxer but statistically speaking, I should have voted NaDa.
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
Metallingus
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Philippines468 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-23 08:59:48
February 23 2009 08:59 GMT
#125
For reasons already stated, this is REALLY hard to call. To be honest though, no one has left me in awe in their prime more than iloveoov and Savior. I mean, NaDa IS the best, statistically, but no one has had more rape-without-lube games than Cheater Terran and the Maestro.
Overcome all. Especially plateaus.
immacolate
Profile Joined February 2009
Serbia199 Posts
February 23 2009 09:07 GMT
#126
voted boxer... he is so good that you can get laid just by playing one of his replays to a girl

...and I think it's a shame that ooov is at the bottom
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17845 Posts
February 23 2009 09:24 GMT
#127
Voted (T)NaDa, this poll needs (Z)July.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9071 Posts
February 23 2009 09:25 GMT
#128
NaDa
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
2rhyme
Profile Joined July 2007
Romania79 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-23 09:29:37
February 23 2009 09:29 GMT
#129
this poll needs Nal_Ra ^^ ( voted Boxer )
Sok4R
Profile Joined November 2006
Germany124 Posts
February 23 2009 09:35 GMT
#130
Boxer autovote
Frag Everything that isn't you
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
February 23 2009 09:36 GMT
#131
this poll needs BachHo
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 23 2009 09:37 GMT
#132
my standard for best player has roughly three parts. first is an understanding of the game, the ability to devise ways to outplay the opponent strategically. this can be done in a repeatable manner, like devising strategies favoring macro and positional play; or it can be shown when the situation calls for improvisation. here consistency matters. occasional displays of brilliance, though spectacular, can at best mean that the player has an unreliable ability, or does not display the ability often. either way, there is no sense of stable invincibility. decisions accumulate during a game, and each one of them is an exercise in this area, so players who win by the long and seemingly boring play of positional advantage is really displaying more skill than first meets the wandering eye.

then there is raw execution skill. here we can divide things into macro mechanics and micro mechanics. i favor the former, because there is at least a strategic understanding here that it is important to doing things that do not show immediate results, results worthy of 10 second youtube gloryshots. mechanics with macro is perhaps easier to acquire by training and paying attention to derived wisdom, and players with good micro can lean toward a different strategic balance, favoring pressure and such. but a wise man once said, so what if it works in practice, does it work in theory? micro execution skill is averse to theory, whereas you can't understand macro mechanics without some spreadsheets. advantage macro. now, even displays of good micro can be displays of good game understanding, and thus in a sense macro ability. micro in different stages of the game are not equal, and the choice of devoting attention to particular units in particular junctures is a strategic choice. microing your scouting scv is a basic example, but so is savior's frequent use of drones etc to block rushing units' pathing, allowing him to make more drones and delay sunken etc. for a particular micro play, what is impressive is often the intention behind the maneuver, not the sheer execution skill required.

now, people sometimes confuse good macro with the ability to outplay the opponent through successive build choices, etc etc, that result in a victory by numbers. the ability to mass units is not all that worthwhile, what is worthwhile is the ability to make the conditions favorable to massing units. the truly dominant players are those that cannot be beaten in a game of many decisions.

a third factor, which already is present in the above two, is aesthetics. what kind of ability do you prefer, or what kind of game do you conceive starcraft to be. there are really a lot of opposing poles, micro vs macro, aggressiveness vs positional milking, etc. i will just bring out mind vs body. the sheer ability to move one's fingers is a useful physical trait, and so is the ability to think fast and think well. this seems like the overhanging choice of styles that dominate other considerations, so giving it the third factor is not unreasonable. to me, the mental side of things is more impressive. i haven't thought about why this is the case until now. it seems that great plays made on decisions rather than clicking power really showcase the meaning of expertise. if we ask the question of best player ever, without specifying starcraft, we probably will put more emphasis on natural mechanical abilities, but to ask, who is the best starcraft player, i think we should consider the player whose play truly display a good grasp of the game. in this sense, even a player with bad natural abilities in say clicking fast, or simply inattentive, but who plays a style that maximizes his effectiveness given the natural handicaps, is more impressive than the guy with high natural ceiling but lacking robust game sense.

now, the case studies are pretty easy to figure out given the standard outlined above. i discount nada, and boxer somewhat, for different but similar reasons. nada is the most naturally gifted player in terms of the sheer ability to command things, maybe flash or jaedong comes close, but nada is simply the best known for this area. this makes him a good player, but it is not that impressive. the talent to play games well is not interesting, the ability to play starcraft is.

ipxzerg, oov, gorush etc are boosted. oov and savior are not known for their apm, and gorush is asleep half the time. but they are too good to let that hinder them. during the time when they were dominant, . savior is imo the superior, although oov is

the picture is complicated when we observe that the work of devising builds and revolutionizing the optimum strategies, including devising counters, is being treated more seriously today, or at any rate the people who do this work with greater experience and history. is it fair to say that flash is more innovative than boxer or oov because his builds are more perfect. obviously a lot of unknowns go into answering that question.

bisu, jaedong and flash are more interesting cases. they play in an era of more settled strategies, and they all have outstanding mechanical ability, which carries them frequently. it is difficult to know whether their play relies on more understanding or mere mechanics. since today's players are expected to be complete, given the level of competition, it is increasingly difficult to make the distinction. each plays with an understanding of their strengths, and thus corresponding strategic flavors. flash relies on excellent micro to do the greediest builds, etc. is that more micro or macro? today's players are obviously better in terms of skill, but why are they required to be this way, or put it another way, that they play to this level is more due to them being in this era than any special ability of their own. it is then not fair to discount the legacies of older players whose dominance raised the competitive focus.

the term to describe the legacies is probably greatest rather than best. greatest player ever is either savior or oov. savior is 1a, oov is 1b or maybe a bit below that. a special class is reserved for natural talents like nada and july, although i am biased against july and there is method to his madness. boxer is just a fun player whose worth cannot be measured by the topic question.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Phearlock
Profile Joined December 2007
Norway400 Posts
February 23 2009 09:48 GMT
#133
Flash tbh, only player who's showed a truly dominant streak recently (ofc, he's not in one now). He's probably the best terran player ever. Even though I like Nada better ^^

Second place would probably be a tie between savior and nada, nada's staying power through the ages of starcraft and saviors recent rise back to a good form being the reasons.
dibban
Profile Joined July 2008
Sweden1279 Posts
February 23 2009 09:58 GMT
#134
BOXERU
이제동 - 이영호 since '07.
ktp
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States797 Posts
February 23 2009 10:00 GMT
#135
Nada because he still consistantly qualifies for Starleagues
I3oxerfan
Profile Joined January 2008
215 Posts
February 23 2009 10:22 GMT
#136
Boxer autovote.
Victor
Profile Joined November 2005
New Zealand1016 Posts
February 23 2009 10:30 GMT
#137
boxer autovote

ez
FaCE_1
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Canada6185 Posts
February 23 2009 10:50 GMT
#138
boxer is great but gota go with Nada
n_n
FlamyDeath
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Netherlands146 Posts
February 23 2009 11:00 GMT
#139
Reach.
We real cool. We Left school. We Lurk Late. We Strike Straight. We Sing sin. We Thin gin. We Jazz June. We Die soon
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
February 23 2009 11:08 GMT
#140
savior is the most overrated bonjwa ever. He abused the old MSL format like a smartass, but always failed to perform in osl/wcg (until shinhan osl, the only osl in which he performed well).
Terran & Potato Salad.
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