EPTBest Player Ever?
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LordWeird
United States3411 Posts
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LosingID8
CA10824 Posts
however i'm looking at it holistically. who is the most successful progamer? who is the winningest progamer? who is ALWAYS a competitor and also qualifies for starleagues (with the rare exception of a couple seasons) since 2002? who is the player who came back from a complete slump into a full-blown comeback winning an OSL, getting 2nd in the next OSL and then winning shinhan masters? to me the choice is simple. nada. | ||
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Ideas
United States8073 Posts
voted flash | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
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Trozz
Canada3454 Posts
Boxer gets my autovote. Best player evarrr. | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
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StarN
United States2587 Posts
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gm.tOSS
Germany898 Posts
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Whyzguy
Canada263 Posts
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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o[twist]
United States4903 Posts
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ColdLava
Canada1673 Posts
Best relative to his competition at a certain point? Iloveoov Best record and most achievements? Nada Most important and most revolutionary? Boxer Best skill-wise (as in, if you took any player in their prime and matched them up)? Either Jaedong, Flash, or Bisu... The skill level now is higher than ever. The most flawless relative to what we knew about Starcraft at the time? Savior | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
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Hittegods
Stockholm4640 Posts
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animus123
United States171 Posts
Nada. | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
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DMXD
United States4064 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36373 Posts
On February 23 2009 09:00 JWD wrote: "Best" is really vague...I'm picking BoxeR for his contributions to the proscene. you could argue that leaving it vague and allowing the voter to interpret his own meaning of "best" leads to more accurate and interesting results | ||
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Blind
United States2528 Posts
On January 04 2009 08:55 Rostam wrote: My vote goes to Nada.A short history of NaDa in KeSPA: Obtained #1 KeSPA ranking in april 2003 and held it until august 2004 when he was usurped by iloveoov. Dropped to #3 in November when Xellos took over his #2 spot. After that, he went between #3 and #6 until February 2006 when he dropped from #4 in January all the way to #12. After dropping a bit more he wormed his way back into the top 10 at #9 for August 2006 and took over the #1 spot again in December 2006. Savior took him down to #2 in the following month, he stayed strong at #2 until July when that scheming bastard Bisu dropped him to #3. Dropped to #6 in August, dropped out of top 10 again in December 2007. Reobtained #10 ranking in June 2008. This month represents the first time since February 2002 that NaDa has not been in the top 20 of KeSPA. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
realistically though, its flash | ||
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I_L_Jl
United States225 Posts
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checo
Mexico1364 Posts
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Yaqoob
Canada3319 Posts
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
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Sprite
United States1015 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
but seriously though, this is kind of a redundant poll | ||
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LordWeird
United States3411 Posts
Even though NaDa isn't playing like a bonjwa now, he is still around kicking ass and taking games off the best even after all this time in the game. | ||
GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
By heroics and how much they helped the esport? Boxer By short term domination? Savior by long term domination? Iloveoov by being the current top of their respective races? flash, bisu, and jaedong By championships and accomlishments, there is only one. Nada. | ||
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checo
Mexico1364 Posts
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32269 Posts
What is Bisu even doing in this poll lol | ||
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checo
Mexico1364 Posts
On February 23 2009 09:54 IntoTheWow wrote: I can't believe im one of the only 12 people to vote oov. NaDa would have been my second pick. What is Bisu even doing in this poll lol Agree, HAHAHA lmao even Jaedong is a head of Oov XD | ||
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ZidaneTribal
United States2800 Posts
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
nada is my second pick for remaining a top player for all these years, and winning 3 titles in 3 different eras | ||
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abandonallhope
Sweden563 Posts
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On February 23 2009 09:12 Hot_Bid wrote: you could argue that leaving it vague and allowing the voter to interpret his own meaning of "best" leads to more accurate and interesting results But you'd be mistaken, because everyone -> Boxer autovote. Edit: voting Jaedong because his mantra is "I'm going to kill you." I mean, fuck, you can't touch that. | ||
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ultralisk
20 Posts
EDIT: Where is Chojja and July? | ||
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funkie
Venezuela9374 Posts
Whoever who did this report youself and turn in your resignation papers as soon as possible please. | ||
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Not_Computer
Canada2277 Posts
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KnightOfNi
United States1508 Posts
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Mikilatov
United States3897 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On February 23 2009 09:54 IntoTheWow wrote: I can't believe im one of the only 12 people to vote oov. NaDa would have been my second pick. What is Bisu even doing in this poll lol Yeah, wow. I can't believe iloveoov is last place at the moment. I can't decide between Boxer/NaDa/sAviOr for second place. But throughout the entire time I have been following progaming, nobody was as dominant as oov. Like others have been saying, however, "best" can vary quite a bit. | ||
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n.DieJokes
United States3443 Posts
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hazz
United Kingdom570 Posts
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dartski
United States30 Posts
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Mooncat
Germany1228 Posts
So... best player ever? Savior in his prime. You can't make up for strategic genius with sheer mechanics. Flash/Nada/oov tied for 2nd place imo. Closely followed by Jaedong. And Bisu well... Sure he's the most accomplished protoss ever, but apart from that, I really don't know why he is even in this poll... Might sound a little harsh, but he has never shown real dominance over a longer period of time imho. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
If no one ever practiced Jaedong would win every title forevermore. Wierd thing to say, I know  | ||
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plan3t
Canada75 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
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KP_CollectoR
United States744 Posts
On February 23 2009 09:44 LordWeird wrote: By the way I voted NaDa because he easily the most consistent in this whole list. Bisu/Jaedong/Flash don't have the longevity that NaDa does, even if they have quite an impressive list of accomplishments. Even though NaDa isn't playing like a bonjwa now, he is still around kicking ass and taking games off the best even after all this time in the game. QUOTED FOR TRUTH | ||
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SUSUGAM
United States177 Posts
On February 23 2009 11:09 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Every player except Bisu qualifies in one way or another. Even Jaedong to some extent in that opponents have to prepare properly for games against him or they are destroyed, hence his success in Winner's League and the easy time he had in that no-practice-time 256 man tournament. If no one ever practiced Jaedong would win every title forevermore. Wierd thing to say, I know Bisu vs anyone on the list in a BO5 = Bisu wins, skill level on the proscene is too high today for the bonjwas to compare. Therefore, he is as worthy as anyone, and gets my vote; fanboism aside. | ||
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32269 Posts
Back then this was not true for Oov. Best was not relative to match ups or maps. It was oov and I bet everyone on the opposite booth was fucking scared. They started the games with a psychological disadvantage. NaDa is the definition of consistency. Still nowadays when he's not playing "very good" he can still win vs most player on any time. He's and icon and a pioneer. Boxer is a legend. There's no other way to put it. If they zerg get the "overcome all" motto, it's because of saviOr. I don't think anyone shows this mentality more than him. Flash is a machine and certainly reminds me of oov sometimes, not because of his play, but because of the sheer dominance he can put. Jaedong has been a favourite vs everyone in any map for how long? He, like Flash carries an entire team on his back and them qualifying for the individual leagues is routine. It's hard to put Flash and Jaedong in the podium. I would love to see what this player could accomplish on an undeveloped scene like the other guys did. Bisu doesn't belong there imo, like i said. | ||
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32269 Posts
On February 23 2009 11:29 SUSUGAM wrote: Bisu vs anyone on the list in a BO5 = Bisu wins, skill level on the proscene is too high today for the bonjwas to compare. Therefore, he is as worthy as anyone, and gets my vote; fanboism aside. I don't think Bisu is a clear favorite in a series vs Jaedong or Flash. | ||
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eatmyshorts5
United States1530 Posts
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eatmyshorts5
United States1530 Posts
On February 23 2009 09:44 LordWeird wrote: By the way I voted NaDa because he easily the most consistent in this whole list. Bisu/Jaedong/Flash don't have the longevity that NaDa does, even if they have quite an impressive list of accomplishments. Even though NaDa isn't playing like a bonjwa now, he is still around kicking ass and taking games off the best even after all this time in the game. Nada consistent? You gotta be out of your mind I hope you remember that Nada jumped from 50% win rate to 70% win rate several times, sometimes even 4 months at a time. Although Nada is statistically the greatest player ever he was not consistent. | ||
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
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fearus
China2164 Posts
On February 23 2009 11:41 IntoTheWow wrote: "best" is relative right now. Back then this was not true for Oov. Best was not relative to match ups or maps. It was oov and I bet everyone on the opposite booth was fucking scared. They started the games with a psychological disadvantage. NaDa is the definition of consistency. Still nowadays when he's not playing "very good" he can still win vs most player on any time. He's and icon and a pioneer. Boxer is a legend. There's no other way to put it. If they zerg get the "overcome all" motto, it's because of saviOr. I don't think anyone shows this mentality more than him. Flash is a machine and certainly reminds me of oov sometimes, not because of his play, but because of the sheer dominance he can put. Jaedong has been a favourite vs everyone in any map for how long? He, like Flash carries an entire team on his back and them qualifying for the individual leagues is routine. It's hard to put Flash and Jaedong in the podium. I would love to see what this player could accomplish on an undeveloped scene like the other guys did. Bisu doesn't belong there imo, like i said. Bisu is by far more accomplished and dominate than flash and jaedong. The bisu bonjwa chatter is always in the background, wheres the flash bonjwa or jd bonjwa talk? People jsut dont even bother. | ||
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Ra.Xor.2
United States1784 Posts
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
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Wasabi
United States3085 Posts
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Rucky
United States717 Posts
Oov/Boxer were extremely good, but not in all aspects. Boxer's macro was bad, but amazing micro and Oov is vice versa. Bisu/Flash are the best in their respective races right now, but if you watch them play esp bisu, they make way too many mistakes to be considered best. There's not excuse for bisu and his sloppiness. When I see Flash play, he reminds me of Oov with heavy macro adv style. Even bisu wooped his ass seeing as how flash just did his 2 base mass crap. Now Nada and Savior would be second pick since they would be the BEST PLAYER EVER if there were no JD. Even in their primes, their plays were far from perfect. It just meant that they didn't even need to play perfect to win at their time. JD doesn't need to play perfect to win either i'm sure, but JD does play pretty perfect anyway. that's why he doesn't just win he dominates. I'm a savior fanboy...not JD...i just can't deny his greatness though | ||
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Aurioch
United States414 Posts
On February 23 2009 08:45 Ideas wrote: well flash is the best most skilled player of all time, but nada is the most successful, oov was the most dominate, and boxer was the most popular... voted flash I have no idea what you're talkin about. Flash is the best most skilled of all time? Nobody is the best, if you're the best, you don't get beaten, period. | ||
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JohnBall
Brazil1272 Posts
 GuemChiEdit: wow, there is a player named  Only | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9102 Posts
BoxeRBest player Ever: NaDaAlthough I can't beleive oov has so few votes. Nada has the most achievments and success over time but in terms of dominance in raw win rate I'm pretty sure oov was the most dominate. | ||
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Rucky
United States717 Posts
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ssystem
United Kingdom337 Posts
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DanceCommander
United States1808 Posts
ban for everyone who did not vote boxer | ||
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F91
New Zealand77 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10633 Posts
Jaedong or Flash. | ||
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1a2a3aGG
United States225 Posts
Voted flash ^^ | ||
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Aurioch
United States414 Posts
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Augury
United States758 Posts
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
Realistically you have to pick Nada/Flash/Savior though. Aurioch, only someone who wasn't around during Savior's time of domination can say anything as... frankly ignorant as that. Savior is not overrated in the least, like at all. No one could so much as TOUCH him during his dominant reign, something that most of the other people on this list can't claim. | ||
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Aurioch
United States414 Posts
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Realpenguin
8253 Posts
On February 23 2009 12:05 JohnBall wrote: I believe the only answear is GuemChiEdit: wow, there is a player named OnlyI agree. GuemChi easily surpasses all of those silly no name players. What a fail poll. + Show Spoiler + voted Flash | ||
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prOxi.Beater
Denmark626 Posts
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Mooncat
Germany1228 Posts
On February 23 2009 12:35 Aurioch wrote: I can't believe Savior is ahead of Nada. Savior won 3 MSL and 1 OSL, Bisu won 3 MSL and the Intel Classic Season 2. In terms of success, both Savior and Bisu have accomplished equally. In term of domination, Savior have had his time in the shine, but has faded away. Bisu had his time in the sun, slump, but came back and showed his ability of being a champion once again. Savior is nothing but overrated, and he doesn't deserve to even be consider as one of the candidate. If Savior was so great, he wouldn't get owned by Firebathero, he would find a way to overcome that obstacle, that's a trait of a champion. LOL. Savior doesn't deserve to be in this poll? Are you fucking mad? I mean wtf!? No matter if you're a fanboy, a hater, or something in between, there's just no way in the world any sane man could ever argue that Savior doesn't belong in a "best player ever" poll. Back in his prime, he was THE player to beat. Bisu isn't even considered the favorite against many players, and this is actually his prime right now. Just wait until next week when Jaedong will play tennis with his balls. | ||
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Aurioch
United States414 Posts
On February 23 2009 12:48 Jayme wrote: TL auto votes Boxer. Realistically you have to pick Nada/Flash/Savior though. Aurioch, only someone who wasn't around during Savior's time of domination can say anything as... frankly ignorant as that. Savior is not overrated in the least, like at all. No one could so much as TOUCH him during his dominant reign, something that most of the other people on this list can't claim. Bisu rolled him during his domination erra, and if he was such a champion, he would be able to find his touch back, but he didn't, and don't forget about his humiliation with FirebatHero. | ||
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Aurioch
United States414 Posts
On February 23 2009 13:00 Mooncat wrote: LOL. Savior doesn't deserve to be in this poll? Are you fucking mad? I mean wtf!? No matter if you're a fanboy, a hater, or something in between, there's just no way in the world any sane man could ever argue that Savior doesn't belong in a "best player ever" poll. Back in his prime, he was THE player to beat. Bisu isn't even considered the favorite against many players, and this is actually his prime right now. Just wait until next week when Jaedong will play tennis with his balls. Yea, Savior was the player to beat, and he got beat, and he sanked, and never got up. I'm mad, sounds like you're slamming your keyboard to me. I simply compare Savior to the likes of Nada, Boxer, and Oov. In comparison to domination, each of those players had their shine. In terms of accomplishment, Savior doesn't even suffice of what Boxer, Nada, and Oov did. It's funny how everyone bashed Bisu saying he's ignorant, and yet it was Savior who said "I will destroy everyone in 2009", so much for everyone, getting pwned by Great yesterday in Winners league. Thank you come again | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
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Mooncat
Germany1228 Posts
On February 23 2009 13:02 Aurioch wrote: Bisu rolled him during his domination erra, and if he was such a champion, he would be able to find his touch back, but he didn't, and don't forget about his humiliation with FirebatHero. Who says he isn't getting his touch back? He's actually doing quite well as of late and still has a shot at the MSL. It doesn't go like "BANG! Here I am again!" Coming out of a slump takes a lot of time and practice. Let's talk again in 6 months. And let's also see if Bisu's even in the power rank by then. Bisu has never even come close to an era of domination in his career. Don't even begin to argue he can compete with the likes of savior for best player ever. | ||
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Mooncat
Germany1228 Posts
On February 23 2009 13:03 Aurioch wrote: Yea, Savior was the player to beat, and he got beat, and he sanked, and never got up. I'm mad, sounds like you're slamming your keyboard to me. I simply compare Savior to the likes of Nada, Boxer, and Oov. In comparison to domination, each of those players had their shine. In terms of accomplishment, Savior doesn't even suffice of what Boxer, Nada, and Oov did. It's funny how everyone bashed Bisu saying he's ignorant, and yet it was Savior who said "I will destroy everyone in 2009", so much for everyone, getting pwned by Great yesterday in Winners league. Thank you come again Oh, so you're actually saying he's a bad player because he lost a ZvZ, the most unpredictable match-up in all of starcraft, where basically anyone can beat anyone once in a while? And even to a decent ZvZ player? What is it with you? Btw. you wouldn't remember Bisu's last game against Guemchi, would you? I thought as much. | ||
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Aurioch
United States414 Posts
On February 23 2009 13:08 Mooncat wrote: Who says he isn't getting his touch back? He's actually doing quite well as of late and still has a shot at the MSL. It doesn't go like "BANG! Here I am again!" Coming out of a slump takes a lot of time and practice. Let's talk again in 6 months. And let's also see if Bisu's even in the power rank by then. Bisu has never even come close to an era of domination in his career. Don't even begin to argue he can compete with the likes of savior for best player ever. Are you stupid or something? I only mentioned that Savior got steam rolled by Bisu, I never said Bisu also deserve to be up there... | ||
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Aurioch
United States414 Posts
On February 23 2009 13:11 Mooncat wrote: Oh, so you're actually saying he's a bad player because he lost a ZvZ, the most unpredictable match-up in all of starcraft, where basically anyone can beat anyone once in a while? And even to a decent ZvZ player? What is it with you? Btw. you wouldn't remember Bisu's last game against Guemchi, would you? I thought as much. You might consider reading the last sentence once in a while? | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On February 23 2009 13:02 Aurioch wrote: Bisu rolled him during his domination erra, and if he was such a champion, he would be able to find his touch back, but he didn't, and don't forget about his humiliation with FirebatHero. Everyone, and I mean every single person finds the other guy that has their number. This happens without fail. It sounds to me like if someone doesn't play so well now it detracts from what their former accomplishments are. Boxer fell to Nada, Nada fell to IloveOoV, Iloveoov fell to July, July pretty much fell to Nada again, Nada was finally beaten by Savior, Savior was beaten by Bisu. I don't see Iloveoov around dominating, I don't see boxer around dominating and I don't see Nada in the same shape. This is irrelevant, they were at some point in time absolute monsters and THAT is what matters. Savior was a monster. Yes he got rolled by Bisu the same way Iloveoov got rolled by July. No one begrudges anyone of this besides those weird people who think Savior was actually overrated. Do keep in mind that Savior broke his winning streak from back in 2006-2007. Even the best of progamers LOSE, sometimes 2-3 times in a row! Starcraft is a tough sport to streak in. | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
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Aurioch
United States414 Posts
On February 23 2009 13:24 Jayme wrote: Everyone, and I mean every single person finds the other guy that has their number. This happens without fail. It sounds to me like if someone doesn't play so well now it detracts from what their former accomplishments are. Boxer fell to Nada, Nada fell to IloveOoV, Iloveoov fell to July, July pretty much fell to Nada again, Nada was finally beaten by Savior, Savior was beaten by Bisu. I don't see Iloveoov around dominating, I don't see boxer around dominating and I don't see Nada in the same shape. This is irrelevant, they were at some point in time absolute monsters and THAT is what matters. Savior was a monster. Yes he got rolled by Bisu the same way Iloveoov got rolled by July. No one begrudges anyone of this besides those weird people who think Savior was actually overrated. Do keep in mind that Savior broke his winning streak from back in 2006-2007. Even the best of progamers LOSE, sometimes 2-3 times in a row! Starcraft is a tough sport to streak in. I agree with everything you said. However, I can't stand douchebags that keeps saying bs crap like Bisu is arrogant, Bisu is ignorant. Savior was the one who said he would destroy everyone in 2009, that's a pretty bold statement, and yet he's loosing to random A-Class players? Savior fanboys acted like he's been dominating Starcraft for 1000 years or some shit. Point is, Savior was pwning, got pwned, sanked, and now he has to prove himself. Bisu already proved that he can be a champion once again, but can Savior do the same? | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
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Ideas
United States8073 Posts
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Mooncat
Germany1228 Posts
On February 23 2009 13:32 Aurioch wrote: I agree with everything you said. However, I can't stand douchebags that keeps saying bs crap like Bisu is arrogant, Bisu is ignorant. Savior was the one who said he would destroy everyone in 2009, that's a pretty bold statement, and yet he's loosing to random A-Class players? Savior fanboys acted like he's been dominating Starcraft for 1000 years or some shit. Point is, Savior was pwning, got pwned, sanked, and now he has to prove himself. Bisu already proved that he can be a champion once again, but can Savior do the same? Bisu was never even a champion of Savior/Oov/Nada's caliber to begin with. And he isn't now. Bisu coming back from a long time of mediocre play to A/S-Class play again and Savior coming back from a real slump after over a year of complete and utter dominance is a whole different story. What Bisu did prove is that he can win starleagues. But as I said earlier, he has never had a longer period of dominance, yet. That's why you can't compare him to the other guys in this poll. He has yet to prove that he can dominante the scene for like ~1year +/- Even though Flash and Jaedong might have less titles than Bisu, they dominate on a different level over a very long time against all three races. That's what makes them special. Heck, Flash is coming close to a 70% career win % | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
Bisu is arrogant. This is something I really liked about him actually, I was fully behind the "Bisu is a badass" wagon for the longest time. Yea I liked Savior but the new Sair/DT multitask way to crush zerg was amazing. The SC scene needs more personalities like Savior/Bisu/FBH that are arrogant because they KNOW they are good and can back up what they say by steamrolling everyone. FBH.. used to be able to steamroll anyway  The only issue a majority of people have with Bisu right now is the whole Bonjwa talk that gets annoying after the 5000th time of hearing it and that one interview where he became probably the first ever upper class player to actually complain about a map. He actually said "Yea I lost because of the maps..." ... He needs to redeem himself after that farce of a comment. Other than that Bisu is ok in my book and I like the guy. The Savior fanboyism is overboard too but the Bisu-Savior brigades are... really loud just gotta get used to that one | ||
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nitram
Canada5412 Posts
This needs more candidates. | ||
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Kyuukyuu
Canada6263 Posts
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Aurioch
United States414 Posts
On February 23 2009 13:35 Avidkeystamper wrote: Bisu is arrogant. That is a fact that can be seen from his interviews, though they have improved recently. Savior lost to one person. You can't generalize that into "random A-class players". That's an overstatement. And Savior isn't? Boldly claiming he'll destroy everyone in 2009, in my book, that's call being over your head and overestimating yourself. | ||
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ShmotZ
United States581 Posts
Nal_rA (>T__T)>..... | ||
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32269 Posts
On February 23 2009 11:59 Rucky wrote:Oov/Boxer were extremely good, but not in all aspects. Boxer's macro was bad, but amazing micro and Oov is vice versa. oov's micro was not by any means "bad", it was just overshadowed by his brute force macro. oov basically fought every fight (in TvZ specially, and TvP to a degree) with way more units than his opponent. He did a lot of 1a2a3a just cause he could. But if you look for old vods you will see excellent marine micro, splits, and great multitasking. Boxer had bad macro in a time where bad macro was common just cause no one saw the advantage you could get from it with solid builds. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
On February 23 2009 14:03 Aurioch wrote: And Savior isn't? Boldly claiming he'll destroy everyone in 2009, in my book, that's call being over your head and overestimating yourself. Wth, how does my comment have anything to do with Savior?, you said you got sick of people saying bs like "Bisu is arrogant". Well, he is. Too bad. | ||
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BreaK
Canada890 Posts
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32269 Posts
On February 23 2009 14:08 BreaK wrote: Honestly, this poll might as well be: "Who has the most fans out of all these players?" Might be. I like SaviOr way more than oov, but I voted oov. I guess the Bisu votes have a lot to do with people not being here a while back. iloveoov was IMBA. I remember the amount of crying TL had about people bitching that iloveoov made things boring because no one else would win lol. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
Every single game he played he may has well have been looking at his opponents screen, from sending his overlord in the right direction right off the bat to randomly scouting a proxy in some godforsaken corner of the map. Bunker rush? No chance. Proxy gate? Gtfo. There was nothing that could faze this cold-hearted motherfucker. Sure, oov was scary, but I believe that's only because he grasped the concepts of macro before anyone else had really thought about it. 27-0 is, of course, nothing to scoff at. The only other player I can see contending as best player ever is NaDa. He's definitely the most accomplished player of all time, with one of only two Golden Mice and a list of accomplishments in TLPD that spans several pages :p He also shows amazing longevity and continues to take games from top players to this day. Definitely sAviOr or NaDa for this one. I can't really see anyone else really being a contender. | ||
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JFKWT
Singapore1442 Posts
Bisu is arrogant. This is something I really liked about him actually, I was fully behind the "Bisu is a badass" wagon for the longest time. Yea I liked Savior but the new Sair/DT multitask way to crush zerg was amazing. The SC scene needs more personalities like Savior/Bisu/FBH that are arrogant because they KNOW they are good and can back up what they say by steamrolling everyone. FBH.. used to be able to steamroll anyway The only issue a majority of people have with Bisu right now is the whole Bonjwa talk that gets annoying after the 5000th time of hearing it and that one interview where he became probably the first ever upper class player to actually complain about a map. He actually said "Yea I lost because of the maps..." ... He needs to redeem himself after that farce of a comment. Other than that Bisu is ok in my book and I like the guy. The Savior fanboyism is overboard too but the Bisu-Savior brigades are... really loud just gotta get used to that one Odd how Flash/JD dominate so hard and still don't get swell-headed like FBH/Bisu. And Nada didnt exactly get all his titles by being a hard-ass. Despite being a T player voted JD simply for the fireworks that his VODs and FPVODs display. | ||
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Scaramanga
Australia8090 Posts
Best results is nada Best player at the moment would be flash or JD Best player according to fans hearts is this sexy boy ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/NeverGG/boxerlockdowns/boxer05.jpg) Voted flash | ||
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Pellucidity
Netherlands377 Posts
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checo
Mexico1364 Posts
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xhuwin
United States476 Posts
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
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Rucky
United States717 Posts
On February 23 2009 14:08 BreaK wrote: Honestly, this poll might as well be: "Who has the most fans out of all these players?" I liked savior way more than JD, but I voted JD. | ||
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goldenkrnboi
United States3104 Posts
On February 23 2009 14:03 Aurioch wrote: And Savior isn't? Boldly claiming he'll destroy everyone in 2009, in my book, that's call being over your head and overestimating yourself. i see it more as making a promise with his foreign fans than arrogant. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
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cgrinker
United States3824 Posts
Can the next one be Best Race Ever? Or maybe a "Wii, 360, PS3?" kinda poll? | ||
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bias-
United States410 Posts
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
On the other hand, Jaedong has been fighting an uphill battle, killing Terrans left and right on recent trend of maps where T>Z, or just the simple historical age of starcraft unfair scene where T>Z ever since the age of Boxer. But oov has been the most dominant, but I don't see him as a best player in the present ofc. | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
On February 23 2009 15:08 Sentenal wrote: It is a crime that Reach isn't on the list. OR JULY IS 5 OSL FINALS NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE A LIST ; ; | ||
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On February 23 2009 14:21 JFKWT wrote: + Show Spoiler + Bisu is arrogant. This is something I really liked about him actually, I was fully behind the "Bisu is a badass" wagon for the longest time. Yea I liked Savior but the new Sair/DT multitask way to crush zerg was amazing. The SC scene needs more personalities like Savior/Bisu/FBH that are arrogant because they KNOW they are good and can back up what they say by steamrolling everyone. FBH.. used to be able to steamroll anyway The only issue a majority of people have with Bisu right now is the whole Bonjwa talk that gets annoying after the 5000th time of hearing it and that one interview where he became probably the first ever upper class player to actually complain about a map. He actually said "Yea I lost because of the maps..." ... He needs to redeem himself after that farce of a comment. Other than that Bisu is ok in my book and I like the guy. The Savior fanboyism is overboard too but the Bisu-Savior brigades are... really loud just gotta get used to that one Odd how Flash/JD dominate so hard and still don't get swell-headed like FBH/Bisu. And Nada didnt exactly get all his titles by being a hard-ass. Despite being a T player voted JD simply for the fireworks that his VODs and FPVODs display. Nada does ceremonies still, they are funny as hell when he's brave enough to do them. It isn't so much arrogant in that you have to belittle other players but in the sense that they actually know they are good and they aren't actually afraid to show it. It gives the scene some drama and rivalries that a big sport outlet needs to survive. Being humble all the time just strikes me as a bit uhh.. wrong... Flash used to be like that actually, he would "yawn" rape people so hard it wasn't even funny. He used to be do whatever he wanted to do build wise and he would win somehow. He could be 3 bases behind against rock and somehow pull 24 goliaths out of his ass and win. Flash fell from grace shortly because he started to 14CC every game. No Terran goes 3 starport against a progamer Zerg without the intention to completely humiliate them. At one point in May Flash was so bored with playing standard that it seemed like he would roll a dice to see what build he would play that day, be it MnM against protoss or any assorted other off the wall crap.. and he'd win with it. In fact, I'd be brave enough to say that if Flash were on any other team that had some talent to back him up in proleague he would be far and away the best player anyone has ever seen. He combines Saviors game sense with impeccable macro and micro, his schedule just kills him. He would have been the next bonjwa, of that I have no doubt at all, even given the skill level of gamers today. I've never really considered Jaedong at that level myself. S-Class?, one of the best zergs of all time? Easily, without a doubt, but he does not come to mind when I think of best player of all time. | ||
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Chameleon
United States604 Posts
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frostynine
Sweden53 Posts
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
EDIT: IF; this poll means highest skill someone has had at a single moment of time (closest to playing a perfect game) then it would be savior I think. else Nada. | ||
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Aqualicy
Norway25 Posts
Even if I probably would autovote Boxer in a poll with no specified context, it would still be nice to have the second best SC/BW player ever at least represented as a goddamn choice. | ||
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I3oxerfan
215 Posts
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
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falls
United States168 Posts
Nada - Statistically the best player Savior, Oov - Nigh-invincible during their primes Boxer - Duh.. Bisu, Jaedong, Flash - Arguably the best players in their respective races | ||
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
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Metallingus
Philippines468 Posts
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immacolate
Serbia199 Posts
...and I think it's a shame that ooov is at the bottom | ||
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disciple
9070 Posts
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2rhyme
Romania79 Posts
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Sok4R
Germany124 Posts
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
then there is raw execution skill. here we can divide things into macro mechanics and micro mechanics. i favor the former, because there is at least a strategic understanding here that it is important to doing things that do not show immediate results, results worthy of 10 second youtube gloryshots. mechanics with macro is perhaps easier to acquire by training and paying attention to derived wisdom, and players with good micro can lean toward a different strategic balance, favoring pressure and such. but a wise man once said, so what if it works in practice, does it work in theory? micro execution skill is averse to theory, whereas you can't understand macro mechanics without some spreadsheets. advantage macro. now, even displays of good micro can be displays of good game understanding, and thus in a sense macro ability. micro in different stages of the game are not equal, and the choice of devoting attention to particular units in particular junctures is a strategic choice. microing your scouting scv is a basic example, but so is savior's frequent use of drones etc to block rushing units' pathing, allowing him to make more drones and delay sunken etc. for a particular micro play, what is impressive is often the intention behind the maneuver, not the sheer execution skill required. now, people sometimes confuse good macro with the ability to outplay the opponent through successive build choices, etc etc, that result in a victory by numbers. the ability to mass units is not all that worthwhile, what is worthwhile is the ability to make the conditions favorable to massing units. the truly dominant players are those that cannot be beaten in a game of many decisions. a third factor, which already is present in the above two, is aesthetics. what kind of ability do you prefer, or what kind of game do you conceive starcraft to be. there are really a lot of opposing poles, micro vs macro, aggressiveness vs positional milking, etc. i will just bring out mind vs body. the sheer ability to move one's fingers is a useful physical trait, and so is the ability to think fast and think well. this seems like the overhanging choice of styles that dominate other considerations, so giving it the third factor is not unreasonable. to me, the mental side of things is more impressive. i haven't thought about why this is the case until now. it seems that great plays made on decisions rather than clicking power really showcase the meaning of expertise. if we ask the question of best player ever, without specifying starcraft, we probably will put more emphasis on natural mechanical abilities, but to ask, who is the best starcraft player, i think we should consider the player whose play truly display a good grasp of the game. in this sense, even a player with bad natural abilities in say clicking fast, or simply inattentive, but who plays a style that maximizes his effectiveness given the natural handicaps, is more impressive than the guy with high natural ceiling but lacking robust game sense. now, the case studies are pretty easy to figure out given the standard outlined above. i discount nada, and boxer somewhat, for different but similar reasons. nada is the most naturally gifted player in terms of the sheer ability to command things, maybe flash or jaedong comes close, but nada is simply the best known for this area. this makes him a good player, but it is not that impressive. the talent to play games well is not interesting, the ability to play starcraft is. ipxzerg, oov, gorush etc are boosted. oov and savior are not known for their apm, and gorush is asleep half the time. but they are too good to let that hinder them. during the time when they were dominant, . savior is imo the superior, although oov is the picture is complicated when we observe that the work of devising builds and revolutionizing the optimum strategies, including devising counters, is being treated more seriously today, or at any rate the people who do this work with greater experience and history. is it fair to say that flash is more innovative than boxer or oov because his builds are more perfect. obviously a lot of unknowns go into answering that question. bisu, jaedong and flash are more interesting cases. they play in an era of more settled strategies, and they all have outstanding mechanical ability, which carries them frequently. it is difficult to know whether their play relies on more understanding or mere mechanics. since today's players are expected to be complete, given the level of competition, it is increasingly difficult to make the distinction. each plays with an understanding of their strengths, and thus corresponding strategic flavors. flash relies on excellent micro to do the greediest builds, etc. is that more micro or macro? today's players are obviously better in terms of skill, but why are they required to be this way, or put it another way, that they play to this level is more due to them being in this era than any special ability of their own. it is then not fair to discount the legacies of older players whose dominance raised the competitive focus. the term to describe the legacies is probably greatest rather than best. greatest player ever is either savior or oov. savior is 1a, oov is 1b or maybe a bit below that. a special class is reserved for natural talents like nada and july, although i am biased against july and there is method to his madness. boxer is just a fun player whose worth cannot be measured by the topic question. | ||
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Phearlock
Norway400 Posts
Second place would probably be a tie between savior and nada, nada's staying power through the ages of starcraft and saviors recent rise back to a good form being the reasons. | ||
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dibban
Sweden1279 Posts
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ktp
United States797 Posts
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I3oxerfan
215 Posts
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Victor
New Zealand1016 Posts
ez | ||
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FaCE_1
Canada6163 Posts
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FlamyDeath
Netherlands146 Posts
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Lukeeze[zR]
Switzerland6838 Posts
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Lenwe
Netherlands757 Posts
NaDa.No  July in the poll is a damn shame though. | ||
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ZoW
United States3983 Posts
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
The best player throughout the history of SC has to be nada. The most brilliant player has to be boxer. The most dominant player has to be oov. The most mechanically skilled player yet has to be bisu or flash. screw this poll, i'm not even voting :s | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On February 23 2009 20:08 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: savior is the most overrated bonjwa ever. He abused the old MSL format like a smartass, but always failed to perform in osl/wcg (until shinhan osl, the only osl in which he performed well). "Overrated bonjwa" is quite the contradiction in terms, don't you think? | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
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Caos2
United States1728 Posts
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
Maybe you should have waited and thrown him into a poll like '' who is the greatest Starcraft Icon of all times ? '' .. It makes me kinda sad how this poll is going now.. ;( I dont want to be harsh or anything, but Boxer even though he might be EVERYTHING in SC/BW he does never deserve the 1st place for something being called '' best '' I dont have a clue how people can have the opinion Jeadong or Savior should be above bisu. Please explain it to me, thx ! I dont have a clue how oov is so low. It's ridicolous.. I dont have a clue how NaDa can not be at nr.1 spot. Make this post again without Boxer.. and all the Boxer fan boys wont go by the brain, but again by there heart. Which would be absolutely okey for a poll you can answer with your 'heart'.. like ' who do you like best'' or '' who is the most charismatic '' but not '' who is the best player ever '' If we go by the best player in terms of raw skill, I dont know how anyone can decide who is the pick then.. I would really like to know how you want to explain why savior, flash or jeadong should be above bisu. When bisu is right now raping left and right and doing amazingly. Savior at one time was untouchable, but so was oov. He is last places wtf !? Seriously.. All players except nada,boxer and oov and ( maybe ) savior are kinda to ''new'' to the scene.. And Boxer is almost something like Giyom Patry.. who is almost too oldschool to deserve being called '' the best '' Due to Boxers name appearing this poll was already doomed from the beginning | ||
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
The word "best" is really hard to quantify because of it's abstractness in nature. | ||
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P_King
Russian Federation363 Posts
In terms of overall influence on the progaming scene: Boxer Voted Savior though... | ||
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Gryffindor_us
United States5606 Posts
NaDa's not consistent? Really? He's qualified for 13 of 17 starleagues since he began in Panasonic OGN 2002. He's also qualified for 16 of 19 MSLs since he began. Along with his 6 first place wins (not counting special tournaments like KT-KTF where he went 16-1 and KT-KTF2 where he got third) he's also got five 2nd place finishers and other third place finishers. He may not always win but he's ALWAYS a threat. I also have to echo Phil's statements because most of you who chose Boxer did so merely because he's your favorite player not because he's the best player ever. Bisu/Flash/Jaedong are far too new to truly be a candidate for best player of all time. Truly, NaDa has been here for a long time and he's continued to show up in leagues and do decently well. Oov is gone along with that period of dominance he had, Savior is only now making a slight comeback (we'll see after the dust settles). And yeah, JulyZerg should be in the poll. | ||
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
Also i hope Lukeeze shuts up one day. | ||
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I_L_Jl
United States225 Posts
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Chameleon
United States604 Posts
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morfyy
Romania593 Posts
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Mista
Singapore1022 Posts
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
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Chosi
Germany1302 Posts
beat that. | ||
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Dataleif
Sweden252 Posts
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29 fps
United States5723 Posts
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Tuke
Finland1666 Posts
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On February 23 2009 20:21 GinNtoniC wrote: The one person closest to ever playing a perfect game has to be savior. The best player throughout the history of SC has to be nada. The most brilliant player has to be boxer. The most dominant player has to be oov. The most mechanically skilled player yet has to be bisu or flash. screw this poll, i'm not even voting :s very true indeed ^^ though i did vote for nada.. | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On February 23 2009 23:30 7mk wrote: 6% for iloveoov? wtf? very true indeed ^^ though i did vote for nada.. I honestly think that Iloveoov's domination was more of a product of figuring out macro before anyone else did. Granted, he had amazing control to go with this but I don't know, he was bonjwa for sure I just don't know about best player of all time. It's almost like he was picking on little kids that didnt know better | ||
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Chosi
Germany1302 Posts
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Batisterio-PiB
Brazil219 Posts
In charisma, BOXER.... In absolute skill, Bisu (because he is the best now...) | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
BUT dont you realize we are asking for the best player ever ? What has charisma to do with it ? Make a poll about the most charismatic player ever and i agree with boxer being first. But in this poll.. its just stupidity.. and with all the blind boxer lovers out there we really have to begin to let him out of polls. Granted we want to have serious results... Bisu might be the best player in terms of skill.. Oov was the most dominant.. that IS DIFFERENT from being the best EVER.. but Im done with this poll.. basicaly every person is voting for the player he likes the most. Otherwise I cant explain how Boxer is leading heavily at first place.. I personally am a big Bisu fan but i voted NaDa.. because this poll was not '' WHO IS YOUR FAVOURITE PRO GAMER ? '' BUT WHO IS THE BEST EVER.. could all those boxer fans once be honest to themselves.. =( | ||
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kingrat
Bulgaria60 Posts
realistically though, it's + Show Spoiler + boxer | ||
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monstar123
United States516 Posts
Best player ever-----------> Savior. | ||
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Nokeboy
United States1009 Posts
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lxginverse
Monaco1506 Posts
well it depends on the situation... and theyre from different eras | ||
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whatusername
Canada1181 Posts
On February 23 2009 20:08 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: savior is the most overrated bonjwa ever. He abused the old MSL format like a smartass, but always failed to perform in osl/wcg (until shinhan osl, the only osl in which he performed well). well yeah because shinhan osl was the first osl he entered? | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On February 23 2009 23:59 MaGic~PhiL wrote: BUT dont you realize we are asking for the best player ever ? (blah blah blah) but Im done with this poll.. basicaly every person is voting for the player he likes the most. Otherwise I cant explain how Boxer is leading heavily at first place.. (blah blah blah) could all those boxer fans once be honest to themselves.. =( Boxer IS the best player ever. Best is of course subject to personal preference, but what it means is clear: The greatest, the most desirable. If you could have ONE progamer and ONE only, which would you have? The answer is INEXPLICABLY simple for me. Boxer defined pro-gaming. Most of the people on this site (including myself) got into progaming purely because of Boxer. He inspired SO many people. Without Boxer who knows, we may not even have a pro-scene like we do today. He played with such genius and entertainment, suddenly the world was watching this guy and they loved every minute of it. Even now people want interviews with Boxer, they want to see his photographs, they want to see him win games. There's a reason he wins these polls; it's not magic... phil. | ||
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Sinedd
Poland7052 Posts
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
On February 24 2009 00:35 Klive5ive wrote: Boxer IS the best player ever. Best is of course subject to personal preference, but what it means is clear: The greatest, the most desirable. If you could have ONE progamer and ONE only, which would you have? The answer is INEXPLICABLY simple for me. Boxer defined pro-gaming. Most of the people on this site (including myself) got into progaming purely because of Boxer. He inspired SO many people. Without Boxer who knows, we may not even have a pro-scene like we do today. He played with such genius and entertainment, suddenly the world was watching this guy and they loved every minute of it. Even now people want interviews with Boxer, they want to see his photographs, they want to see him win games. There's a reason he wins these polls; it's not magic... phil. Boxer defined pro gaming. He got most people on this site into progaming. He inspired so many peple. Even now people want interviews with him and photographs ( blah blah blah ).. do you realize that all the things you mentioned have NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH THE POLL's question who the best player ever is ? Are you stupid ? Serious question. Just read the bullshit you just wrote again. Maybe twice ? There is a REASON he wins these polls; it's not magic... it's stupid people like you who cant look beyond there horizont. Who probably dont have the ability to understand that THE BEST does not mean alle the things you just brought up in your post. If they ask for the most charsimatic, the most important, the most liked, the most well known, the biggest starcraft legend ect.. you are right.. And what best means is indeed clear. It does not mean any thing u mentioned there. It means the biggest success, how long the person did how good, it means how many leagues that person won, it means how dominant he was at certain times, it means how many games he won and lost, it means in what fashion he won and lost, it means to lesser extent, how well his games were played and things who get more and more subjective and leave the facts and figures.. I dont like to flame people but you just asked for it. There is a reason why boxer is so far ahead. It's because many hardcore fans vote for boxer whenever he appears in a poll. Moreover most of these probably dont even read the poll. And if they did, many again did not understand what the poll was asking for. my opinion: Best player ever : NaDa Most skillfull player ever: Savior,Jd,Flash,Bisu ( dunno .. ) Most important gamer / 'greatest' / 'biggest legend' : Boxer But dont tell me the reason boxer wins this poll is the fact that he is the best player ever.. | ||
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Durak
Canada3684 Posts
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disciple
9070 Posts
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Snare
Trinidad/Tobago129 Posts
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ATeddyBear
Canada2843 Posts
BeSt is obviously the answer | ||
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nK)Duke
Germany936 Posts
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4Servy
Netherlands1542 Posts
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G5
United States2880 Posts
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amorpheus
Bulgaria2144 Posts
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Pervect
1280 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
On February 24 2009 01:48 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Boxer defined pro gaming. He got most people on this site into progaming. He inspired so many peple. Even now people want interviews with him and photographs ( blah blah blah ).. do you realize that all the things you mentioned have NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH THE POLL's question who the best player ever is ? Are you stupid ? Serious question. Just read the bullshit you just wrote again. Maybe twice ? There is a REASON he wins these polls; it's not magic... it's stupid people like you who cant look beyond there horizont. Who probably dont have the ability to understand that THE BEST does not mean alle the things you just brought up in your post. If they ask for the most charsimatic, the most important, the most liked, the most well known, the biggest starcraft legend ect.. you are right.. And what best means is indeed clear. It does not mean any thing u mentioned there. It means the biggest success, how long the person did how good, it means how many leagues that person won, it means how dominant he was at certain times, it means how many games he won and lost, it means in what fashion he won and lost, it means to lesser extent, how well his games were played and things who get more and more subjective and leave the facts and figures.. I dont like to flame people but you just asked for it. There is a reason why boxer is so far ahead. It's because many hardcore fans vote for boxer whenever he appears in a poll. Moreover most of these probably dont even read the poll. And if they did, many again did not understand what the poll was asking for. my opinion: Best player ever : NaDa Most skillfull player ever: Savior,Jd,Flash,Bisu ( dunno .. ) Most important gamer / 'greatest' / 'biggest legend' : Boxer But dont tell me the reason boxer wins this poll is the fact that he is the best player ever.. Thank for defining what the best means. Because it's completely up to interpretation and your opinion is no more valid than his. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On February 23 2009 23:59 MaGic~PhiL wrote: If they ask for the most charsimatic, the most important, the most liked, the most well known, the biggest starcraft legend ect.. you are right.. And what best means is indeed clear. It does not mean any thing u mentioned there. It means the biggest success, how long the person did how good, it means how many leagues that person won, it means how dominant he was at certain times, it means how many games he won and lost, it means in what fashion he won and lost, it means to lesser extent, how well his games were played and things who get more and more subjective and leave the facts and figures.. You just contridict yourself massively it's pretty funny. You don't actually understand what best means. Best can be defined by "the most desirable" (look it up in a dictionary if you disagree). Now if it said "The most desirable player ever" then would you agree Boxer was a sensible choice? When you ask a group of people who "the best" is. It does essentially become a popularity contest. Because if someone is the most popular...they are the most liked....the most desirable... the best. Who wins "Best Actor" at the Oscars... the most popular Actor among the voters. You have every right to disagree with him being "the best", but you can never quantify what "the best" is and therefore insist that one person is the wrong choice! | ||
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MasterReY
Germany2708 Posts
WHERE IS REACH ? i won't vote until Reach is in there ! | ||
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Kyo Yuy
United States1286 Posts
On February 24 2009 03:29 Klive5ive wrote: You have every right to disagree with him being "the best", but you can never quantify what "the best" is and therefore insist that one person is the wrong choice! I have to agree with this. My vote went for Flash, partially because a lot of other progamers feel the same way about his play and game sense. | ||
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Batisterio-PiB
Brazil219 Posts
On February 24 2009 02:14 nK)Duke wrote: July, he raped OOv when he was 27-0 many times, being like a FBH to Savior. He won another OSL after 4 years. July won in the semis 3-2 and end the streak, but it wasnt a rape! And July lost a final 3-0 to oov and all time is 13-12 in oovs favor. | ||
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Kyo Yuy
United States1286 Posts
While it's true that accomplishments don't imply the best, I think they should still be a FACTOR in at least determining who belongs on the poll. | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
but does his record really warant on the list more than July? | ||
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Stegosaur
Netherlands1231 Posts
 BoxeR | ||
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arew
Lithuania1861 Posts
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
On February 23 2009 23:30 7mk wrote: 6% for iloveoov? wtf? very true indeed ^^ though i did vote for nada.. I agree about that being true aswell and thus i did vote nada... "The best player throughout the history of SC has to be nada." His achivments == insane | ||
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Yizuo
Germany1537 Posts
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Kizlyk
Ukraine84 Posts
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Centric
United States1989 Posts
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
Greatest dominance: Iloveoov Greatest play over whole career: Nada (Flash would he higher I guess but Nada deserves it since he played for like 10 years ^^) Greatest legend of E-sport and Starcraft: Boxer Voted Boxer. | ||
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
On February 24 2009 05:15 Zoler wrote: Best player ever in all kinds of skill put together: Flash Greatest dominance: Iloveoov Greatest play over whole career: Nada (Flash would he higher I guess but Nada deserves it since he played for like 10 years ^^) Greatest legend of E-sport and Starcraft: Boxer Voted Boxer. flawed logics. The players who debuted most recently having like 1-0 would have a 100% perfect career thus beating Flash. | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On February 24 2009 05:30 Patriot.dlk wrote: flawed logics. The players who debuted most recently having like 1-0 would have a 100% perfect career thus beating Flash. And how the hell did you get skill == % win ? | ||
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Sewi
Germany1697 Posts
he is always comming back to top form, again and again! | ||
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LaLaBye
United States90 Posts
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plan3t
Canada75 Posts
Because his name is Best. Get it? Ahahaha! But I seriously don't know who Frozean isn't an option. The Cute Angel has just been DOMINATING the pro scene. | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
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H
New Zealand6138 Posts
On February 23 2009 08:44 LosingID8 wrote: to me the choice is simple. nada. | ||
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b3tty
Canada216 Posts
most dominating player in his prime imo | ||
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Hans-Titan
Denmark1711 Posts
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
If someone now is better than you ever were, you can't be the best ever. | ||
Liquid`Zephyr
United States996 Posts
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PH
United States6173 Posts
Historically, it would have to be NaDa. | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
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Apex
United States7227 Posts
With that being said, I voted Boxer. He perhaps could be seen as one of the most, if not the biggest, influence in the progaming scene ever for revolutionizing Terran in a time of Zerg/Protoss. | ||
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dNo_O
United States233 Posts
a d a any other vote is fanboy | ||
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gir
United States43 Posts
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Flamboyant
United States57 Posts
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imperfect
Canada1652 Posts
says a lot about our race T_T | ||
SilverskY
Korea (South)3086 Posts
On February 24 2009 09:15 Flamboyant wrote: Boxer is overrated, Savior is in his slump and will never recover, Bisu is shining and it's limelight, Nada is boring and focuses on long games rather than interesting and entertaining ones, iloveoov is a hasbeen....meh Just get out. Now. | ||
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TheAZNChineseTiger
Canada92 Posts
All of them are very good players. Bisu is absolutely incredible. Jaedong is a machine. sAviOr was unbeatable at his peak. Flash is awesome, but young. iloveoov has revolutionized the Terran macro. But Boxer cannot be unthroned. He was ranked 1st for 17 months, a record that lasts to this day. He influenced so many ppl to pick Terran and mentored some of its best (Nada and iloveoov). He gave up his life for Starcraft. He is a legend amoung the community. But above all, he makes his games fun to watch. He does proxy so many times and was one of the only ones to ever use Ghosts. lol And he's got the most pimpest plays XD Long live the Emperor!!!!!!!!!! lol | ||
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checo
Mexico1364 Posts
Flash and Jaedong are good but not yet at the lvl of the old school XD | ||
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TheAZNChineseTiger
Canada92 Posts
they might become like Boxer in the future though but I doubt it there's only one SlayerS_BoxeR | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
This poll is so much easier if you just look at the choices and ignore the question. For those that say Bisu doesn't belong, IMO he's just as appropriate here as Jaedong (I don't think either should be in this poll). Biggest impact on the pro scene - Boxer Strongest long-term play - Nada Most dominant streak ever - Oov Most dominant in recent times - Flash Current strongest player - Bisu (but by a small enough margin that you can't say its a valid measure) Can someone tell my by what criteria Jaedong might be evaluated as best? | ||
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TheAZNChineseTiger
Canada92 Posts
hey look, Bisu went up another percent..................... | ||
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Oedi
Canada265 Posts
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TheAZNChineseTiger
Canada92 Posts
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checo
Mexico1364 Posts
On February 24 2009 09:34 TheAZNChineseTiger wrote: lol All of them are very good players. Bisu is absolutely incredible. Jaedong is a machine. sAviOr was unbeatable at his peak. Flash is awesome, but young. iloveoov has revolutionized the Terran macro. But Boxer cannot be unthroned. He was ranked 1st for 17 months, a record that lasts to this day. He influenced so many ppl to pick Terran and mentored some of its best (Nada and iloveoov). He gave up his life for Starcraft. He is a legend amoung the community. But above all, he makes his games fun to watch. He does proxy so many times and was one of the only ones to ever use Ghosts. lol And he's got the most pimpest plays XD Long live the Emperor!!!!!!!!!! lol So true... Close this we have our best player pick =D | ||
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TheAZNChineseTiger
Canada92 Posts
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SilverskY
Korea (South)3086 Posts
On February 24 2009 10:19 TheAZNChineseTiger wrote: can anyone tell me who was Nada? I hope you're trolling... | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia12939 Posts
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TheAZNChineseTiger
Canada92 Posts
i actually don't know a lot about him I think he held a record for something....................... and he uses Terran as well he was pretty dominant but is he retired right now? or is he still playing | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
he's the most succesful player ever, holds 3 osl and 3 msl titles and no he's not retired hes still top 30 in kespa ranking and still in the lost saga msl LOL and yet you make comments like " yeah they might become like Boxer in the future though but I doubt it there's only one SlayerS_BoxeR" acting like youve been around forever and wtf you say "He influenced so many ppl to pick Terran and mentored some of its best (Nada and iloveoov)." ??? | ||
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rredtooth
5459 Posts
the best starcraft player is oov. at his peak, he set a new bar (check out his elo peak which was set at a time before the new 9001 game a week schedule) in starcraft progaming. even from a sideline role as a coach (before he became a player-coach) he impacted the starcraft world by creating the fantasy build (which should be called oov build btw). he indirectly caused the new mech TvZ trend that we hate so much now. nobody has had more impact on starcraft than iloveoov, whether it be revolutionary build orders or revolutionary macro, and nobody has been more successful. oov is the greatest player, and it is a shame that he is ranked last on this poll. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Can't believe Bisu/Jaedong are above Iloveoov though. | ||
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TheAZNChineseTiger
Canada92 Posts
"He influenced so many ppl to pick Terran and mentored some of its best (Nada and iloveoov)." I said that because I read it somewhere that Boxer influenced Nada and iloveoov. I think it was WIkipedia. lol. I only knew a little about Nada, not a whole lot. thx for the description though!! | ||
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[GiTM]-Ace
United States4935 Posts
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o[twist]
United States4903 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 24 2009 10:59 redtooth wrote: how can you guys say anybody other than oov is the best sc player ever. leader of the macro revolution, he is the only man to have gone 27-0 in any matchup. comeon, think about it. we consider any player a god at a matchup if they go 8-0 in it, imagine 27-0. he just destroyed people, was a dominant and consistent MSL contender, fought back the OSL curse, and has one of the most championship victories in history. he was so good he almost ruined starcraft. the best starcraft player is oov. at his peak, he set a new bar (check out his elo peak which was set at a time before the new 9001 game a week schedule) in starcraft progaming. even from a sideline role as a coach (before he became a player-coach) he impacted the starcraft world by creating the fantasy build (which should be called oov build btw). he indirectly caused the new mech TvZ trend that we hate so much now. nobody has had more impact on starcraft than iloveoov, whether it be revolutionary build orders or revolutionary macro, and nobody has been more successful. oov is the greatest player, and it is a shame that he is ranked last on this poll. Because that's one way of defining the best player. He was the most dominant player of his time. He's not the most dominant nowadays, which is another way you might define best. He's also not the most consistent, which is yet another way to define best. I agree though, he shouldn't be last. Definitely should be ahead of Bisu and Jaedong at least. Boxer deserves #1, not because he's best, but because everyone autovotes him in TL polls. | ||
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eazo
United States530 Posts
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TheAZNChineseTiger
Canada92 Posts
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yoofor
United States143 Posts
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eatmyshorts5
United States1530 Posts
On February 24 2009 03:43 Kyo Yuy wrote: Yeah, why ISN'T JulyZerg in this poll? He won the Golden Mouse. It's not often that someone wins 3 Starleague titles... >_> While it's true that accomplishments don't imply the best, I think they should still be a FACTOR in at least determining who belongs on the poll. From what i heard he doesn't have enough overall wins to even be put in the mix which i find retarded. I believe the god of war should atleast be mentioned in this argument. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On February 24 2009 11:15 TheAZNChineseTiger wrote: 7mk; "He influenced so many ppl to pick Terran and mentored some of its best (Nada and iloveoov)." I said that because I read it somewhere that Boxer influenced Nada and iloveoov. I think it was WIkipedia. lol. I only knew a little about Nada, not a whole lot. thx for the description though!! Well yea he certainly was iloveoov's mentor, which is pretty funny because now technically iloveoov is boxers coach on SKT1 didn't know about him and Nada though, also seems a little odd since they never were in the same team (except of course just for the way that Boxer influenced every terran back then) but maybe thats just my lack of knowledge mh and yeah screw reach and july, why is tossgirl missing? O_o | ||
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mark718
United States73 Posts
Simple reason being that when he peaks, he plays at the highest level the game has ever seen. Peak Jaedong > any other player at any time (definitely including Flash and Bisu). | ||
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GeLaar
2421 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On February 24 2009 13:28 GeLaar wrote: Interpreted the poll question to mean "best in terms of raw skill", so I picked Bisu. Same pick if I interpret it in terms of changing the game in ways people wouldn't have thought possible. (Of course Boxer contributed more to SC strategy, but he did it when there was still a lot to be worked out. Bisu did it after the strats had become more or less stable, and consequently improvisation had become a lot harder.) by the second measure, inter.mind should be on the list as well -_-;; Sair/dt and forge first had been done before bisu | ||
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GeLaar
2421 Posts
On February 24 2009 13:47 GHOSTCLAW wrote: by the second measure, inter.mind should be on the list as well -_-;; Sair/dt and forge first had been done before bisu I certainly don't think Bisu's contribution was limited to a build order. He turned around the balance of a match-up with his style of play. Others, who, as you've pointed out, used similar build orders, were unable to achieve anything close to the same effect. | ||
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SilverskY
Korea (South)3086 Posts
On February 24 2009 13:23 mark718 wrote: Jaedong. Simple reason being that when he peaks, he plays at the highest level the game has ever seen. Peak Jaedong > any other player at any time (definitely including Flash and Bisu). I dunno, FlaSh when he peaks is nigh unstoppable... | ||
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muramasa
Canada1299 Posts
Also, WTF at Oov being at the bottom of the list. He's accomplished a fuckload more than Jaedong, Bisu, or Flash. None of these kids even come close to the greatness that was prime Ilooveoov. | ||
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lxginverse
Monaco1506 Posts
On February 24 2009 09:15 Flamboyant wrote: Boxer is overrated, Savior is in his slump and will never recover, Bisu is shining and it's limelight, Nada is boring and focuses on long games rather than interesting and entertaining ones, iloveoov is a hasbeen....meh please kill yourself | ||
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510Sushi
Azerbaijan331 Posts
but voted nade b/c hes sexy | ||
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
He wasn't as dominant as oov but he did have the most impact on starcraft. For that I'm grateful. But his fanboys are getting out of hand | ||
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cgrinker
United States3824 Posts
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ZkilfinG
Sweden14 Posts
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Gryffindor_us
United States5606 Posts
On February 24 2009 13:15 7mk wrote: didn't know about him and Nada though, also seems a little odd since they never were in the same team NaDa and Boxer were on Ideal Space together but I'd hardly call Boxer NaDa's mentor. | ||
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Mista
Singapore1022 Posts
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Dark_Star
Chile19 Posts
NaDa~ | ||
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eatmyshorts5
United States1530 Posts
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m!st
Australia95 Posts
On February 23 2009 08:44 LosingID8 wrote: poll is tough to answer due to the vagueness of the question. if you look at it from the perspective that progamers are always getting better so therefore whoever is dominating right now should get the vote then i guess i would vote for bisu or flash. however i'm looking at it holistically. who is the most successful progamer? who is the winningest progamer? who is ALWAYS a competitor and also qualifies for starleagues (with the rare exception of a couple seasons) since 2002? who is the player who came back from a complete slump into a full-blown comeback winning an OSL, getting 2nd in the next OSL and then winning shinhan masters? to me the choice is simple. nada. This, Nada is the most successful player over a period of nearly 7 years, so that would have to have it, or it would just all be opinion. | ||
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Starparty
Sweden1963 Posts
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Puosu
6984 Posts
On February 24 2009 13:01 eatmyshorts5 wrote: From what i heard he doesn't have enough overall wins to even be put in the mix which i find retarded. I believe the god of war should atleast be mentioned in this argument. I guess its lack of room for options, everyone already in the poll have far more fans and have done more in the scene so replacing one wouldn't work really well. | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
On February 24 2009 17:26 Starparty wrote: boxer put sc on the map for me and for many others, thus he gets my vote BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT THE POLL IS ASKING FOR !? All you Boxer fans are really beginning to annoy me. What is wrong with your brains ? If you think he is the best, back it up with facts and statistics. Or just say '' I think he is the best ''. But for fucking sake dont come up with 1000 arguments which have nothing to do with the polls question ? Being the best at something has nothing to do with so many things some of you boxer fans mentioned.. My god.. I could agree with Bisu or Oov being the best. In terms of domination it would be oov. That is obvious. In terms of pure skill you could say bisu. Savior or Flash are also a choice. In terms of success and statistics and all this kind of stuff it has to be NaDa. The only one who should get the least votes gets the most. Boxer. Just because fanboys love him. Boxer is NOT the most successful. Boxer is NOT the most dominant. Boxer does NOT have the best statistics. That are the most important things for defining the best player ever. All the things other guys bring up have VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH '' BEST '' THERE IS A REASON '' MOST INFLUENCING '' , '' MOST CHARISMATIC '' E C T .. -/- best Then again this poll should be renamed into: Let's see how many fanboys of each player we have on teamliquid.net My favourite player is Bisu. And even though i think he would be a more legitimate candidate than Boxer i had to choose NaDa. Because there is almost no way around him. And if.. then its not Boxer.. But okey.. its all up to your own opinion. But if u want to bring logical arguments, please stop posting stupid bs.. =( | ||
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OSWater
United States1343 Posts
On February 24 2009 20:04 MaGic~PhiL wrote: BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT THE POLL IS ASKING FOR !? All you Boxer fans are really beginning to annoy me. What is wrong with your brains ? If you think he is the best, back it up with facts and statistics. Or just say '' I think he is the best ''. But for fucking sake dont come up with 1000 arguments which have nothing to do with the polls question ? Being the best at something has nothing to do with so many things some of you boxer fans mentioned.. My god.. I could agree with Bisu or Oov being the best. In terms of domination it would be oov. That is obvious. In terms of pure skill you could say bisu. Savior or Flash are also a choice. In terms of success and statistics and all this kind of stuff it has to be NaDa. The only one who should get the least votes gets the most. Boxer. Just because fanboys love him. Boxer is NOT the most successful. Boxer is NOT the most dominant. Boxer does NOT have the best statistics. That are the most important things for defining the best player ever. All the things other guys bring up have VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH '' BEST '' THERE IS A REASON '' MOST INFLUENCING '' , '' MOST CHARISMATIC '' E C T .. -/- best Then again this poll should be renamed into: Let's see how many fanboys of each player we have on teamliquid.net My favourite player is Bisu. And even though i think he would be a more legitimate candidate than Boxer i had to choose NaDa. Because there is almost no way around him. And if.. then its not Boxer.. But okey.. its all up to your own opinion. But if u want to bring logical arguments, please stop posting stupid bs.. =( Settle down. The word 'best' is ambiguous as hell. In my book, Boxer is the best of all time. Much like how Jimi Hendrix is considered the best guitar player of all time. No, he doesn't have the best macro, or micro. No, he hasn't dominated the scene as long as some players and no, he doesn't have the best stats overall. But what Boxer has achieved, nobody has. He achieved this status where no matter how bad he's doing, he is still the Emperor. He isn't a macro power house, he doesn't have the best micro, but what Boxer does use his brain. Boxer, bar none is the most creative programmer of all time. He reinvented the way we play and see Starcraft. Anybody who knows anything about professional Starcraft knows Boxer. Much like the late great Jimi Hendrix, who didn't have the fastest hands, the billboard charts or even the fans until he passed away. It's the creativity that sets you apart, and Boxer has that in spades. No matter who you are, how biased you are, or even if you hate Boxer's guts. He is the heart and soul of Starcraft. He is very much a part of it as the pixels on the screen, the keyboard or the mouse. Lim Yohwan is the best Starcraft programmer of all time. Thanks for reading my fanboyism. | ||
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barbahaba0
Israel226 Posts
i mean this is a fan contests no doubt how can one compare 2 players from diffrent era's when as time progress the level gets higher mainly due to the fact that good strategies get copied so the question who is the best player overall is either bisu jaedong /flash no other players in the list in their prime would come close to this level but bare in mind before killing me that the level of play would reach its current level without oov macro savior's mechanics boxer's revolutionary ideas etc etc each player contributed to the game so for that reason to the question best player ever which to my understanding is best player today goes to jaedong and why not bisu ?? too long to explain and i'm a jaedong fan sorry for the english lol | ||
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Guybrush
Spain4744 Posts
July Reach Flash Anytime iloveoov They're the most awesome ones atleast. Flash, Bisu, and Jaedong have been the best for their respective races for quite a while now, and I cant see it changing anytime soon. They cant seem to rake up titles as fast as their predecessors though - which can be explained by a fiercer competition, and a busier schedule. | ||
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BOSas
Lithuania2 Posts
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VioleTAK
Israel4279 Posts
On February 23 2009 11:12 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Seriously though, given every interpretation of the word 'best' and how relevant those things actually are - Nada wins by a large margin Yep. | ||
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the-darkest-templar
United States32 Posts
No one can touch Boxer's innovation nor the way he revolutionized SC at his time, so he will likely always be the favorite because of those major moments where everyone can't help but say "holy shit... that just happened." Likewise, Bisu and Jaedong, to me, are the top players skill-wise when they're at their peaks. I honestly don't think anyone touches Jaedong's technical skills when he's focused and playing like he should, and i can say the same is more or less true for Bisu. They are monsters of their respective races. And Nada... has all the achievements. I voted Boxer because I feel what he contributed to SC far outweighs technical skill or a list of trophies. That said, my close runner up would be Jaedong, because he really is the scariest player on the scene (or was). | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
You answered the poll '' Which gamer contributed most to this 10 year old beauty of a game ? '' But its okey.. T_T | ||
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Nylan
United States795 Posts
On February 24 2009 23:52 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Okey. But then u did answer the polls question.. You answered the poll '' Best Player Ever '' But its okey.. T_T Fixed. I really don't see why your arbitrary definition of "best" is better than his. At least he's exhaustive in his explanation. | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
Greatest? BoxeR, YellOw, rA, NaDa. EZ | ||
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Frits
11782 Posts
but noone comes close to flash | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On February 24 2009 20:04 MaGic~PhiL wrote: BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT THE POLL IS ASKING FOR !? All you Boxer fans are really beginning to annoy me. What is wrong with your brains ? If you think he is the best, back it up with facts and statistics. Or just say '' I think he is the best ''. But for fucking sake dont come up with 1000 arguments which have nothing to do with the polls question ? Being the best at something has nothing to do with so many things some of you boxer fans mentioned.. My god.. I could agree with Bisu or Oov being the best. In terms of domination it would be oov. That is obvious. In terms of pure skill you could say bisu. Savior or Flash are also a choice. In terms of success and statistics and all this kind of stuff it has to be NaDa. The only one who should get the least votes gets the most. Boxer. Just because fanboys love him. Boxer is NOT the most successful. Boxer is NOT the most dominant. Boxer does NOT have the best statistics. That are the most important things for defining the best player ever. All the things other guys bring up have VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH '' BEST '' THERE IS A REASON '' MOST INFLUENCING '' , '' MOST CHARISMATIC '' E C T .. -/- best Then again this poll should be renamed into: Let's see how many fanboys of each player we have on teamliquid.net My favourite player is Bisu. And even though i think he would be a more legitimate candidate than Boxer i had to choose NaDa. Because there is almost no way around him. And if.. then its not Boxer.. But okey.. its all up to your own opinion. But if u want to bring logical arguments, please stop posting stupid bs.. =( Hahaha nerdrage! If you think it's okay bringing Iloveoov and the others for their old performances it's definitely alright to pick Boxer. KeSPA rank #1 for 17 months, the longest time? Only player EVER to win two OSL in a row. Only player EVER to play 8 OSL in a row (I'm talking about advancing from group stage). | ||
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fearus
China2164 Posts
If you had a time machine and had to get a player for a BO 5 and your life depended on it, who would you pick? Would people seriously be picking a 2002 boxer or 2004 oov or 2004 nada? They were GREAT players and indeed the GREATEST players. But you can't say they were the BEST when people are clearly BETTER than them, even in they prime. i.e. a 2009 Jaedong would wreck Boxer and Oov in they prime in they strongest matchup. | ||
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Frits
11782 Posts
On February 25 2009 01:31 fearus wrote: i.e. a 2009 Jaedong would wreck Boxer and Oov in they prime in they strongest matchup. That comparison is not really far, starcraft was not nearly as developed as it is now. You're saying that being good now is worth more than being good in 2002, which is bullshit. You can still call Boxer the best because he was the best in a certain period of time. And there's no telling if Jaedong (if he played in 2002) would be able to match up against Boxer and Oov back in the day. | ||
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reaver_drop
Canada131 Posts
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Hyperionnn
Turkey4968 Posts
this poll sucks. | ||
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Guybrush
Spain4744 Posts
On February 25 2009 00:58 Zoler wrote: Only player EVER to play 8 OSL in a row (I'm talking about advancing from group stage). July qualified for 9 OSLs in a row. Gillette, Ever04, IOPS, Ever05, So1, Shinhanbank, Shinhan1, 2, and 3. Then he missed Daum. Then he qualified for the next 5. Ever07, Bacchus, Ever08, Incruit, Batoo. Boxer went 0-3 in the groups in NATE OSL. | ||
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roguemind
2 Posts
By numbers, it goes to Nada. By legend, it goes to Boxer. By dominance, it goes to iloveoov. By skill, it goes to Jaedong. By mechanics, it goes to Flash. By tactics, it goes to Savior. By strategy, it goes to Bisu. It's a toss-up between Bisu and Savior, for me...and that unforgettable MSL finals back in 07 leans it towards Bisu. | ||
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Eatme
Switzerland3919 Posts
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IMlemon
Lithuania296 Posts
I threw a coin few times and bisu won, so I voted him. | ||
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wiesel
Germany727 Posts
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
On February 25 2009 03:47 wiesel wrote: "Best" in terms of most success, Nada of course. No question. | ||
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noddyz
United Kingdom462 Posts
Pure skill: Jaedong. Only player i've ever watched and thought, WOW how the fuck is he doing this? Most important: Boxer, obvious reasons. Most dominant: OOV. He didn't win, he just rolled. Right now: Flash. The kids rediculous. As starcraft at it's highest level at the moment he's probably the 'best' SC player. Most succesful: Nada. So many titles. So good for so long. Savior wins a prize for general all round goodness and Bisu gets nothing other than evils for stealing July's spot. | ||
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aeronexus
United States392 Posts
2. there is a "Boxer" option 3. DUH | ||
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ixion
Sweden81 Posts
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Blind
United States2528 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/147_NaDa/main The only player with enough achievements that he needs 2 pages in TLPD. | ||
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Pressure
7326 Posts
but i said oov | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7850 Posts
Altough if you don't taks the context in consideration, it's obviously Flash. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On February 25 2009 04:53 noddyz wrote: Voted Boxer but maybe i read it as greatest instead of best. Rough thoughts: First of all well done for voting Boxer. He is the best player of all time. I wanna stress though that greatest is closer in meaning to most profilic than best. Because greater can at least be applied to numerical values. For example: 2 is greater than 1. But is 2 better than 1?! Best means "most desirable". If Tossgirl was in this poll.... would she win?! Would the results be differen't if the question was "Greatest Player Ever" ? | ||
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
On February 25 2009 01:43 Frits wrote: That comparison is not really far, starcraft was not nearly as developed as it is now. You're saying that being good now is worth more than being good in 2002, which is bullshit. You can still call Boxer the best because he was the best in a certain period of time. And there's no telling if Jaedong (if he played in 2002) would be able to match up against Boxer and Oov back in the day. Well it means a lot when Boxer has already admitted that his current "slump" form now is higher skill level than his prime self. The man has said it himself. So the old boxer would not win against current Flash or Jaedong. Definately likely seeing how everyone admits that the general level of starcraft has gone up | ||
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Schnake
Germany2819 Posts
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TheAZNChineseTiger
Canada92 Posts
in the old days, it was all about micro in many games, the players had so much minerals "in the bank", it was unbelievable now, it's more about macro of course micro does come in handy | ||
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iloahz
United States964 Posts
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Kong John
Denmark1020 Posts
I guess Jaedong is the most skilled imo but im just a fanboy so ill vote boxer, about time that he won a poll again. | ||
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5tarscream
Singapore459 Posts
Greatest achievement as in winning most award or invented break through tactic? Skill as in micro and macro or winning consistently? I think Boxer has won enough of medal and created numerous tactic for marine against Pand Z. Like Dropship and 8 marine rush with SCV. Boxer micro was simply the best during his prime. Oov was strong in macro. Jaedong strong with muthalisk. As for present best performance, i vote for leta. | ||
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Linx_101
Canada166 Posts
He isn't at the level of these once or currently elite players NADA IS THE BEST EVER - his achievements say it all | ||
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muramasa
Canada1299 Posts
tl;dr: Oov FTW. | ||
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onihunter
United States515 Posts
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DesOndaes
United States61 Posts
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Nyovne
Netherlands19129 Posts
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mrdx
Vietnam1555 Posts
On February 25 2009 05:44 aeronexus wrote: 1. it's a poll 2. there is a "Boxer" option 3. DUH This. No matter how vague the question is, as long as there is Boxer in the options it's an easy poll. | ||
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R3condite
Korea (South)1541 Posts
boxer for sure... nowadays even his skills from his younger age may not compare to the new current players but he is THE MAN of Starcraft it's like saying Obama is smarter than George Washington... doesn't matter man does not matter GW, like Boxer, was THE MAN | ||
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AnyOne
Chile547 Posts
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On February 25 2009 12:43 AnyOne wrote: Nal_rA Someone give this man a toaster oven. | ||
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Mooncat
Germany1228 Posts
Ridiculous. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
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Aurioch
United States414 Posts
On February 25 2009 13:53 konadora wrote: Voted sAviOr, nobody has been so perfect as him in his prime. Wrong, if he was perfect, he wouldn't have been countered. | ||
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Cheristensen
China2 Posts
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On February 25 2009 15:35 Aurioch wrote: Wrong, if he was perfect, he wouldn't have been countered. You are so anti-savior it's almost amusing to watch... Almost. You can tone it down now you aren't fighting a crusade here. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
this poll is a travesty On February 25 2009 16:43 Jayme wrote: You are so anti-savior it's almost amusing to watch... Almost. You can tone it down now you aren't fighting a crusade here. To be fair, for most of Savior's reign he was shadowed by Chojja and then we he finally attained "perfection" he was destroyed by bisu then nada in short succession. On top of that people always forgot how close savior was to being eliminated from Pringles 2 after Midas basically had game 4 won of their semifinal then threw it away :[. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
On February 25 2009 17:54 Plexa wrote: Oov is more qualified than Flash, Jaedong AND Bisu... you dont win 3 MSLs, go on a 27-0 TvZ streak, win 2 OSLs and completely change the way the game is played in all three matchups everyday yano...;; this poll is a travesty To be fair, for most of Savior's reign he was shadowed by Chojja and then we he finally attained "perfection" he was destroyed by bisu then nada in short succession. On top of that people always forgot how close savior was to being eliminated from Pringles 2 after Midas basically had game 4 won of their semifinal then threw it away :[. Maybe I should have posted 'closest to perfection'. And Oov is sick, I must admit. 27-0 TvZ | ||
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jonich0n
United States1982 Posts
but it's very difficult to argue against Nada imo. | ||
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Raithed
China7078 Posts
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
T_T | ||
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uNiGNoRe
Germany1115 Posts
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LosingID8
CA10824 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10633 Posts
Boxer should not be in this poll anyway. | ||
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Mooncat
Germany1228 Posts
On February 25 2009 19:39 LosingID8 wrote: i love boxer as much as the next guy, but the poll results are just stupid 100% agree. I can't believe how half of the people are writing something like "It's Nada, but I voted Boxer" Heck, if you think it's Nada, then vote Nada. Goddamnit... | ||
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Kim_Hyun_Han
706 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
it makes perfect sense | ||
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mrdx
Vietnam1555 Posts
On February 25 2009 21:30 Mooncat wrote: 100% agree. I can't believe how half of the people are writing something like "It's Nada, but I voted Boxer" Heck, if you think it's Nada, then vote Nada. Goddamnit... "It's Nada, but I voted Boxer", that's right, but stop for a second and think why people did that. I think this poll, whose question might seem ambiguous, actually showed who's TRULY the best progamer. | ||
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verzisor
Romania73 Posts
and btw its obvious best means the one that would win most against anyone else... and even though bisu, jd, and flash got better multitasking and mechanics then boxer, he has MUCH better creativity and would be able to outsmart them in any BOX | ||
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