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There are enough solid EU players to have fantastic qualifiers, challenger league and premier league without adding any number of Koreans for the reason of making it "more attractive" to viewers or give it legitimacy. Plenty of Koreans got defeated at some point in the WCS EU this year, if not all of them, by a foreigner.
The only way to build the entire EU scene and the interest among EU viewers is to have strong EU competitions imo, where EU players get the chance to play as much as possible to gain experience in the big tournaments. Having top or middle level Koreans dominating EU tournaments is not going to do anything to grow the interest for SC2 in EU. Quite the contrary. It would be great to have the best of EU to compete with the rest of the world in the finals, without seeing the best of the EU Koreans taking some/all of the EU spots.
Also, why should WCS EU and WCS NA deprive WCS KR of so much talent? Let WCS KR be the best tournament for Koreans it can possibly be.
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well im mostly watching eu/kor here because of the timezones...
i do think koreans that are living in the eu should participate, so mma/mc/forgg are defenitely part of the european sceene. wcs kor has this restricition, you have to play in seoul to participate. thats not as easy in NA/EU so the online part is a clear benefit for this regions.
i enjoy watching the europeans (well extended europeans) and some koreans that live somewhere around enhance the quality. but looking at blizzcon where 15 out of 16 players are koreans... not that many foreingers to cheer for...
sure the best consistant players (in each region) are there, but some koreans that qualified throu NA/EU are only qualyfied because they skipped the challenge of there own region.
i would like to see NA/EU/KOR champions that battle in the season finals, not koreans out of 3 regions to battle it out, thats what regional tournaments are designed for, for the international challenge theres the finals.
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On September 27 2013 04:38 polarwolf wrote:
I voted "no" because the game is about skill, and if there is such a surplus of talent from Korea that they can dominate the other WCS regions, so be it.
If there was a region lock, it would be unfair for the Koreans as their league would be much more competetive and not comparable to the other 2 regions, in which players would need much less skill to earn the same amout of money and fame.
This.
The game is about skill. Foreign pro players shouldnt be baby-sat by allowing only foreigners to play foreigners. Its stupid. I for one, would not watch EU or NA at all if the Koreans are not there.
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On September 27 2013 02:27 elmoDD wrote:
I won't be watching WCS EU/NA anymore if the Koreans continue to dominate
^ this
i simply don't care anymore. it's no WCS EU/NA its just WCS KR in every region
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On October 06 2013 15:52 Fall.182 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 04:38 polarwolf wrote:
I voted "no" because the game is about skill, and if there is such a surplus of talent from Korea that they can dominate the other WCS regions, so be it.
If there was a region lock, it would be unfair for the Koreans as their league would be much more competetive and not comparable to the other 2 regions, in which players would need much less skill to earn the same amout of money and fame.
This. The game is about skill. Foreign pro players shouldnt be baby-sat by allowing only foreigners to play foreigners. Its stupid. I for one, would not watch EU or NA at all if the Koreans are not there.
You can still watch Koreans in Korea. So those who want to watch Europeans and Americans can get their chance in to watch WCS EU/AM. Everyone gets something to watch. Fair enough? That is from the viewers point of view. From the players point of view: Honor and glory comes in the season finals and the overall final, and there is nothing horribly unfair about having qualifications that allows participation in a grand final from the entire world.
For both players and viewers: Please add another WCS Asia (excluding KR) so that we can have all the other Asians & Oceania playing in their timezone. 
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Well, if they really plan to introduce residency/citizenship restrictions... the entire tournament would have to be restructured:
1) WAY higher price pool for the Korean region. Everything else would just be absurd. The current price pool is just ridiculous for the amount of Korean pro gamers anyway. If they weren't allowed so switch region... how should they get the money?
2) More spots at the season finals for the Korean region. Simply because the skill level would be so much higher.
3) More tournaments in Korea. These 4 WCS Seasons are simply not enough in this case.
They can't just introduce a residency restriction without changing a lot. And I'd definitely prefer the current format over a format which just completely destroys the Korean scene.
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This would mean a significantly less number of Koreans in WCS EU & NA, which would also destroy the Korean scene. I love having WCS EU so that I can watch top players at a reasonable time in my time zone, not because I want to see only european players. Can someone tell me a reason why you are against having Koreans play in WCS EU or NA?
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2466 people killing e-sport !! 
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There should be a region lock, if all you wanna see is the best of the best, wait for the world finals, until then let each regions ACTUAL representatives have a shot at qualifying for the world finals where they get the oppurtunity to compete with the koreans. it builds foreign interest when not every player is a "faceless korean"
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Okay... Voted "No".
1. We (the foreign community) went to Korea for years! Now, when we want to establish our own scene we suddenly say: "Fuck you, Koreans! Stay out! You are too good!" ?!
2. If you actually want restrictions, then I demand that the prize pools get changed. NA players only deserve half of what EU players deserve and those only deserve half of the Korean ones. See where this is getting? But otherwise it wouldn't really be fair. Fact: NA players suck heavily and Koreans rock.
3. We are dumping the prize pools effectively on our own aswell then... Less commercial income due to a lesser variety in play and less bigger names, leading to even less commercial income... the spiral goes on and on
4. As a viewer I highly appreciate good and neat play over "Americans need to win!!!111" or the fact, that some people apparently can't enjoy good play without saying "This is my man!/team!" as in other sports. (I see several problems in my last point... would take too long to explain accurately what I mean... I guess I could illustrate it with the stereotype of an US citizen, screaming "USA! USA! WE ARE THE BEST! FUCK THE REST!" but still thinking that some imaginary "something" created us humans and actually cares about us humans more than about every other collection of atoms in this universe/not caring about the fact that their government probably fucked human and war rights more often than every other country, but still yelling "We need to get rid of those muslims!" and so on (I guess you get my point. - And as I said, I was using stereotypes... I know that by far not every american is like this - but as I'm not a native english speaker, this was a very easy way to illustrate my point. :p
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I think residency is the best way to go. People like MC or Forgg who moved to Europe should be allowed to play in WCS EU.
Korean domination actually hurts SC2 and is the prime reason my interest in SC2 diminished. I want to cheer for local heroes like I do in LoL LCS (for EG and Vulcun).
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On October 07 2013 15:42 BrowbeatSC2 wrote:
Okay... Voted "No".
1. We (the foreign community) went to Korea for years! Now, when we want to establish our own scene we suddenly say: "Fuck you, Koreans! Stay out! You are too good!" ?!
2. If you actually want restrictions, then I demand that the prize pools get changed. NA players only deserve half of what EU players deserve and those only deserve half of the Korean ones. See where this is getting? But otherwise it wouldn't really be fair. Fact: NA players suck heavily and Koreans rock.
3. We are dumping the prize pools effectively on our own aswell then... Less commercial income due to a lesser variety in play and less bigger names, leading to even less commercial income... the spiral goes on and on
4. As a viewer I highly appreciate good and neat play over "Americans need to win!!!111" or the fact, that some people apparently can't enjoy good play without saying "This is my man!/team!" as in other sports. (I see several problems in my last point... would take too long to explain accurately what I mean... I guess I could illustrate it with the stereotype of an US citizen, screaming "USA! USA! WE ARE THE BEST! FUCK THE REST!" but still thinking that some imaginary "something" created us humans and actually cares about us humans more than about every other collection of atoms in this universe/not caring about the fact that their government probably fucked human and war rights more often than every other country, but still yelling "We need to get rid of those muslims!" and so on (I guess you get my point. - And as I said, I was using stereotypes... I know that by far not every american is like this - but as I'm not a native english speaker, this was a very easy way to illustrate my point. :p
I wish more people can appreciate the game like you.
I think that is the difference between sc2 players and fanboys.
People that can play the game at least at a plat level can understand the game enough to appreciate players for their mechanics, strategy, and nerves.
Most people in masters league now are players that keep up with Koreans or at least shift with their meta.
But on the point of Americans being bigger fanboys, I see way more BM and whine from EU side than NA.
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On October 06 2013 20:19 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2013 15:52 Fall.182 wrote:On September 27 2013 04:38 polarwolf wrote:
I voted "no" because the game is about skill, and if there is such a surplus of talent from Korea that they can dominate the other WCS regions, so be it.
If there was a region lock, it would be unfair for the Koreans as their league would be much more competetive and not comparable to the other 2 regions, in which players would need much less skill to earn the same amout of money and fame.
This. The game is about skill. Foreign pro players shouldnt be baby-sat by allowing only foreigners to play foreigners. Its stupid. I for one, would not watch EU or NA at all if the Koreans are not there. You can still watch Koreans in Korea. So those who want to watch Europeans and Americans can get their chance in to watch WCS EU/AM. Everyone gets something to watch. Fair enough? That is from the viewers point of view. From the players point of view: Honor and glory comes in the season finals and the overall final, and there is nothing horribly unfair about having qualifications that allows participation in a grand final from the entire world. For both players and viewers: Please add another WCS Asia (excluding KR) so that we can have all the other Asians & Oceania playing in their timezone.
I agree from a viewer's perspective, as much as I want to see skill I also want to see the region the competition is based in thrive by showing off its best players. WCS NA or WCS EU being represented by KR just doesn't sit right. I mean it doesn't help anyone that KR dominates the entire scene.
It benefits everyone, the scene as a whole if every region is able to be competitive not just representatives from another region coming into another region just because in a way its 'easier" competition. I don't want to say it, but SC2 isn't as popular as it was and is fairly stagnate. And because Korea hasn't taken to SC2 as it had BW it doesn't have the support it (Korea) used to. The foreign competition is where SC2's longevity and support really is and if the foreign competition is squandered then SC2 will be stuck in Korea where it is a stagnant game.
While I did vote "yes" I would put an asterisk next to that. Why not limit how many foreigners to a region can play in that region? Let's say an EU-based player tries to qualify for NA, they would have to play another EU player or KR player that is also trying to qualify for NA. Same goes for every region. Set aside 4-8 slots for foreigner competitors in a specific region. That would leave 24-28 slots for regional players. Having that happen guarantees that regional players make up the majority of competition. NA gets to mostly represent NA, EU mostly represents EU, and KR represents KR.
TL;DR
Foreign competition needs to thrive. While a form of region locking should exist, foreigners to a region should still be invited. Limit how many foreigners to a region can compete in the Premier League. 4-8 non-regional players in Premier. Separate Challenger division for non-regional players.
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So I voted residency. Citizenship is overboard imo. But I'm not sure how you really claim residency. Do you demand upon request the guys passport so you can see if hes left the country? If so, how long can they go for? Most of these young guys are living in team houses, some teams housing members in multiple country's.
It all seems pretty muddy. I voted residency because I'm hoping it could all work out. Not because I think it will work.
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On October 07 2013 15:42 BrowbeatSC2 wrote:
Okay... Voted "No".
1. We (the foreign community) went to Korea for years! Now, when we want to establish our own scene we suddenly say: "Fuck you, Koreans! Stay out! You are too good!" ?!
2. If you actually want restrictions, then I demand that the prize pools get changed. NA players only deserve half of what EU players deserve and those only deserve half of the Korean ones. See where this is getting? But otherwise it wouldn't really be fair. Fact: NA players suck heavily and Koreans rock.
3. We are dumping the prize pools effectively on our own aswell then... Less commercial income due to a lesser variety in play and less bigger names, leading to even less commercial income... the spiral goes on and on
4. As a viewer I highly appreciate good and neat play over "Americans need to win!!!111" or the fact, that some people apparently can't enjoy good play without saying "This is my man!/team!" as in other sports. (I see several problems in my last point... would take too long to explain accurately what I mean... I guess I could illustrate it with the stereotype of an US citizen, screaming "USA! USA! WE ARE THE BEST! FUCK THE REST!" but still thinking that some imaginary "something" created us humans and actually cares about us humans more than about every other collection of atoms in this universe/not caring about the fact that their government probably fucked human and war rights more often than every other country, but still yelling "We need to get rid of those muslims!" and so on (I guess you get my point. - And as I said, I was using stereotypes... I know that by far not every american is like this - but as I'm not a native english speaker, this was a very easy way to illustrate my point. :p
1. It's not that the foreign scene is saying the "get the fuck out" it's that their dominance is hurting the scene as a whole. Even in Korea, SC2 is not as popular as it once was. SC2 as compared to BW days, is even more global than it was.
2. A higher prize pool for the most competitive region would be best. That should be determined by how many of a region's players are in the top 16 of WCS points. Obviously that is overwhelmingly going to be in the Korean's favor. I don't disagree with this point.
3. I don't quite what you're getting at. However, big names will find a way to thrive if they want to stay big. What the scene needs is to propel new talent while also trying keep enough big names from falling. You want a variety in play, but I say a variety in players directly supports more variety in play. No matter if they are Korean or not.
4. This is a very subjective point. But you have to look at the base viewer, which is the casual viewer. That kind of viewer doesn't know or get what good and neat play is. They want to be entertained. When it comes that type of viewer it is easier relate to the player rather than having them fully understand how good that play is.
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I voted no, for the same reasons many others have already stated:
1) I want to watch quality games. If it's Koreans, so be it.
2) I don't support players due to their nationality, but due to their playstyle and thus it's a good thing for me that the other WCS regions have some Koreans in them.
3) It makes 0 sense that weaker players from EU/NA would get into season finals or BlizzCon only to be completely crushed. Currently they'll have to be on the level of competition to even get there, which is good.
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If you want more koreans retiring, then sure. Of course though, America would get a lot of new players and Polt would get rich :D
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Yes. but first Korean WCS should be recognized as an elite tournament with increased prizes for everybody.
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The WCS system itself is what is killing the scene. Putting even more restrictions for the players would be terrible.
Besides, the skill level difference between the koreans and the rest is abysmal. I doubt anyone would watch WCS EU and especially NA without them. Not to say it would be ridiculous to give the same prize pool to considerably less skilled players.
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EPT
