EPTAre there too many SC2 events?
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Zislu
Sweden17 Posts
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DeepBlu2
United States975 Posts
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FenneK
France1231 Posts
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Archas
United States6531 Posts
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DailYLeet
Germany827 Posts
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
I guess it's good for the game as a whole, though. | ||
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sc2pal
Poland624 Posts
I love it, so many tournaments to watch and play  | ||
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Bibbit
Canada5377 Posts
 Theres sure as shit more tournaments and stuff than I could possibly follow but it just means you can pick and choose what you want to watch. Wouldnt call it too much starcraft! | ||
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Eatme
Switzerland3919 Posts
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butter
United States785 Posts
But when the sponsors hear that LoL gets 200k stream viewers, one wonders how long some of these SC2 events can last. In the same way that Korean progaming became a collaboration between only two broadcasters, SC2 events will inevitably consolidate. It would be absurd if the "growth of esports" meant a monotonically increasing number of leagues. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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Ohmboy
United States61 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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Captain Mayhem
Sweden774 Posts
Few big events for the überpros, loads of small events for us less gifted. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
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Maliris
Northern Ireland2557 Posts
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Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
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LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
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gm.tOSS
Germany898 Posts
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FliedLice
Germany7494 Posts
The more events the better! want to pick both i don't keep track of anything atm but i'm fine with it | ||
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Waterhaak
Netherlands525 Posts
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Z3kk
4099 Posts
Obviously that is my fault alone, but the number of events can definitely be a bit overwhelming at times, despite the fact that more is objectively better in this case. | ||
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MaxField
United States2386 Posts
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
But we are privileged to be informed of the good games from all of them! | ||
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Mithriel
Netherlands2969 Posts
First I like to have a choice what to watch, though also there shouldn't be way to many tournaments which might actually hurt the community a bit because a tournament will draw less viewers due to the amount of other tournaments going on. | ||
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raf3776
United States1904 Posts
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
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sefio
103 Posts
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RiT4LiN
Netherlands131 Posts
There are too many to keep track... (409) not mutual exlusive answers. like to hear some more discussion on lo3 or itg about it. | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
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PDizzle
Denmark1754 Posts
On July 01 2011 04:49 FliedLice wrote: There are too many to keep track... The more events the better! want to pick both i don't keep track of anything atm but i'm fine with it Gotta agree with this, there might be too many, but i'm fine with it | ||
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Aurdon
United States2007 Posts
The best players will only go to the best tournaments. The second tier tournaments will be where up and coming players can make a name for themselves before they break out. The rest of the tournaments are the beer leagues where Joe McBronzeleague can bullshit with his friends. | ||
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Stolat
Poland241 Posts
Btw about this LoL stream size, do you really actually belive that almost exact number of LOL users watched the game and the same time were log onto the server? Aint that coincidence? | ||
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Spell_Crafted
United States192 Posts
I blame LO3 for me getting into other stuff in the esports community. Thanks guys! | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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Maliris
Northern Ireland2557 Posts
On July 01 2011 06:26 PDizzle wrote: Gotta agree with this, there might be too many, but i'm fine with it Seconding (thirding?) this notion, it's not like everyone catches every tournament anyway in real sports unless they are a hardcore fan. | ||
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Trozz
Canada3454 Posts
There's no way I can keep track, The more the better :D | ||
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Nothingtosay
United States875 Posts
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TheKilla25
Canada9 Posts
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freddyy
Sweden56 Posts
I can understand though, that from the producer point of view, it might be better to have less competition for the viewers. But at the same time, other events might attract new viewers that get hungry for more content, who would otherwise never have seen your content. All in all... I think having a lot of content is good, up to a degree where it would start hurting the organizers due to too high content / viewer ratio. If that makes sense. | ||
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
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phisku
Belgium864 Posts
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K_Dilkington
Sweden449 Posts
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ZergMaestro
United States169 Posts
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Valikyr
Sweden2653 Posts
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futsel
163 Posts
but that gives me a freedom. I only keep track of like 1/3 or 1/4 of all the tourneys and I'm happy with my selection. Don't want there to be any less tourneys going on: competition and fredom of choice is always good  P.S.: plus almost at every event I watch I get premium or HD or smth like that, so I don't have to spend much since I watch only the selected tournaments | ||
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godemperor
Belgium2043 Posts
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Macibax
33 Posts
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Mister360
Denmark7 Posts
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SnowFantasy
4173 Posts
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RotterdaM
Netherlands684 Posts
Mb i'm nostalgic ^^ I just love legacy's etc, which I feel we wont get when 10 different players win 13 different tournaments within 6 months ;( On the other hand, I love E-sports so the more the merrier I guess... | ||
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SOPhorrific
Canada20 Posts
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BushidoSnipr
United States910 Posts
However there are not enough good events, too many shitty ones xD | ||
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Graham
Canada1259 Posts
Overall think it's a good thing though, even if there's too many to keep track of though, as it pushes tournaments to be better as opposed to "watch me, I'm a tourny and have prize money!!". | ||
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Xolo
Canada107 Posts
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PetitCrabe
Canada410 Posts
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ComusLoM
Norway3547 Posts
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Sworn
Canada920 Posts
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dartoo
India2889 Posts
On July 01 2011 11:40 Xolo wrote: I've basically lost interest because there are just so many events that the excitement is gone for me. This. I used to follow the tournaments regularly, now there is just too much going on, that I feel I cant keep up, and that in return makes me feel like I've missed so much already, so why bother watching the remainder of it. And also koreans playing so often makes the excitement of koreans playing vs foreigners go away, and makes it feel normal. Less is more imo, but obviously for pros and other people I guess more is better. As a spectator, I love the feeling of.."this is the big one, if you dont win this, you'll have to wait for x amount of time again." But from the competitors perspective, t's a pretty bad especially if you want it to be a stable profession. | ||
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Kimaker
United States2131 Posts
I don't know, maybe I'm just used to BW where getting Ro 16 was a pretty big deal in an OSL. | ||
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AlphaFox
United States34 Posts
As long as there are VOD | ||
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lxginverse
Monaco1506 Posts
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btx0
Germany184 Posts
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Misanthrope
United States924 Posts
Groups like NASL and IPL will continuously stretch their budget as far as it can possibly go, finding many creative solutions to the problem of keeping up with the beast. The beast MLG/GSL, which has an easier time attracting rich sponsors will lure the more outstandingly creative thinkers with larger salaries in an effort to stay ahead of the curve, meaning they will improve as an organization. Or the sponsors will be attracted to the perseverance of the mid-range tournaments and seek to have them fly their banners, meaning creative thinkers get more funding. Either way the outer limits of what the sc2 scene can sustain is going to continue to grow for quite some time, and the best ESPORTS shows on the planet will continue to push the outer limits of presentational quality. In short, things can't help but be awesome. | ||
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onedayclose
United States1145 Posts
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Zulk
United States20 Posts
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baeric
Germany649 Posts
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NathanSC
United States620 Posts
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Artifice
United States523 Posts
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EnSky
Philippines1003 Posts
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Backpack
United States1776 Posts
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Syrupjuice
United States173 Posts
My only fear is that the scene will grow too quickly and burn itself out. I would rather see a steady increase in tournaments to a point where we stumble upon some sort of equilibrium. All established sports have done this before and so can Starcraft 2 and e-sports. I hope the future turns out great for the community c: | ||
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Chibithor
Brazil514 Posts
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
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rickybobby
United States405 Posts
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Ouga
Finland645 Posts
Offline tournaments count is just where it should be. Not enough to make you uninterested but just enough to build a lot of hype for them. | ||
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LoKi-
United States121 Posts
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Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
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OnebaseroachGG
Australia11 Posts
always more. | ||
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Full.tilt
United Kingdom1709 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
I feel that watching the GSTL/MLG/Dreamhack/HSC/TSL and streams are enough for me atm. | ||
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
Even if there is too many it is pretty easy to keep track of the ones you want to and read the LR / watch vods from the others. | ||
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sushiman
Sweden2691 Posts
Almost exclusively watch BW now since it's easier to follow. | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2577 Posts
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dankh
France15 Posts
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SiNoCiDe
Turkey67 Posts
Personally watching the main events in each region is perfect. NA = MLG Europe = Dreamhack Korea = GSL/GSTL I really appreciated HSC so I will be looking forward to HSC4 as well. If these main events increased in frequency (MLG and Dreamhack) that would be perfect. Not to interested in any other events tbh (but more events would be better for the scene). | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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Golden Ghost
Netherlands1041 Posts
For example look at soccer. There are games played everywhere at almost any time. However most of the people only follow the top league from their home country and a bunch of games from the Champions League or equivalent on other continents. Then there is a set of people who also follow the top leagues from other major soccer countries like the Bundesliga (Germany), Serie A (Italy), Primera division (Spain), Premier division (England) and a set of people who follow the lower ligues from their country. There is also a set of people who go week in week out to the villageclub to sheer them on. Not everybody can see the joy of watching these amateur clubs battle it out but for the people watching those clubs are their passion and pride. Playing against a club from the village next to them for the pride to be best of the region. Ow and then there are a few nuts who follow nearly everything I see the same principal happening for SC2 at the moment. There are a lot of smaller (weekly) tournaments that are watched by perhaps not the biggest crowds but loyal crowds non the less. And for the up and coming players these are the first tournaments where they can prove themselves and make a name for themselves. Then there are the bigger weekly tournaments (Craftcup/Gosucup/Zotac etc.) and medium sized tournaments (the HomeStory Cup is a bit of an outsider here because it had the size and prize money of a medium tournament but the playerfield of a toptournament) And above that you have the top tournaments like GSL/TSL/MLG/Dreamhack/ESL and weeklies like TLOpen/NASL to name a few that draw big crowds and where the best players compete against eachother. Each category has it's own niche and viewers. And as long as the amount of viewers roughly reflects the prize money/prestige there shouldn't be a problem. The problem begins if/when smaller tournaments start handing out more prizemoney as would be justified by the amount of viewers they have and get into trouble because they can't cover the costs anymore. | ||
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bITt.mAN
Switzerland3693 Posts
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nucLeaRTV
Romania822 Posts
Of course, most of the 1 month players quit already but it's good to see that people are still playing and getting better and better and the game is having more and more success. | ||
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Paladia
802 Posts
Just check football for example. Pretty much every country in the world has at least 5 or so leagues (divided into skills) with tons of teams each and a lot of cups. There are by far too many to keep track of, but why would you? What you want to keep track of are the more high profile events and leagues. I doubt anyone (except perhaps people from the US) would say that there are too many football events, however. Just like there arent too many Starcraft 2 events (despite you being unable to keep track of them all). | ||
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pallad
Poland1958 Posts
More big sponsors comes to sc2 , its very good thing.. but im little pissed , because sometimes i cant track all matches live that i wanna , we must chosse to watch stram live , and chose between some players then we love. Only bad thing is that in finals or high round matches like ro8 ro16 etc is to many protos players :D | ||
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pallad
Poland1958 Posts
On July 01 2011 22:40 pallad wrote: More is better , sc2 scene is growing.. More big sponsors comes to sc2 , its very good thing.. but im little pissed , because sometimes i cant track all matches live that i wanna , we must chosse to watch stram live , and chose between some players that we love. Only bad thing is that in finals or high round matches like ro8 ro16 etc is to many protos players :D | ||
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
If it gets to the point that there are so many events, along with a demand to track them, then someone will eventually take advantage of that opportunity. | ||
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JudgeHolden
Canada11 Posts
You could answer each as 'yes' and no answer would contradict another. Each opinion on the matter is completely unrelated to the others. This site needs some decent editors. | ||
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SaetZero
United States855 Posts
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Quadans
Germany24 Posts
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Sewi
Germany1697 Posts
The reason is that the more there are, the bigger the chance that there will be really great events that will last long enough to make a name for themselves. | ||
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
edit: also BW events need their own section on the calendar as well. | ||
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MinimalistSC2
United States121 Posts
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Walls
United States172 Posts
If you thing about, other sports like succor do the same, they have regional cups and a world cup. | ||
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s.a.y
Croatia3840 Posts
i stopped following the smaller ones. | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
Everything related to SC2 became boring after a while. | ||
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Zerum
Sweden348 Posts
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GrimReefer
United States442 Posts
tournaments like NASL, and to a lesser extent gsl and tsl = getting stale. watching people compete over the course of a month is not a bad thing, but i don't find myself investing any emotion. i don't remember how the player i'm watching won last round b/c that was a week ago. i don't remember how the brackets shaped up b/c there's another tournament with the exact same players confusing me. | ||
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Mr Showtime
United States1353 Posts
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
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Manik-Kenji
United Kingdom10 Posts
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Rauff
Denmark18 Posts
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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Nabes
Canada1800 Posts
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MooLen
Germany501 Posts
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mmdmmd
722 Posts
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Trang
Australia324 Posts
On July 01 2011 23:14 iamho wrote: It would be good if the "big" events like GSL and MLG could get separated in the calendar from all the various tournaments that few people really care about. edit: also BW events need their own section on the calendar as well. I agree with this. I also would like to see major tournaments have a separate SC2 Tourneys section of the forum. It's sometimes time consuming to find the LR threads from even just 1 or 2 days ago. | ||
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Taekwon
United States8155 Posts
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Slakter
Sweden1947 Posts
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
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Chinchillin
United States259 Posts
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TheRealNidhogg
Canada23 Posts
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Robinsa
Japan1333 Posts
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Tofugrinder
Austria899 Posts
ofc I cant watch all of them, but that's the beauty - everybody chooses the events he/she wants to follow | ||
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pebble444
Italy2497 Posts
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
nasl is unwatchable because of their useless vod service GOM is ticket here ticket there and to much random stuff. IGN looks to be great | ||
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Alver
United States177 Posts
theres never enough 2-4 day lan tournaments but the tournaments that go every day of the week are too hard to keep up with now. | ||
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
on the other hand i could imagine that for the casual viewer its great to have as many tournamets as possible but as it is right now its very hard for new players to get big names i think | ||
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Isken
Korea (South)1131 Posts
On July 01 2011 04:48 gm.tOSS wrote: GSL MLG TSL IEM Dreamhack HSC. Everything else falls under the radar. yeah and as for GSL, only a handful of games here and there, else it's too hard to follow :p | ||
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Champi
1422 Posts
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On July 01 2011 03:35 Bibbit wrote: I want two answers. Theres sure as shit more tournaments and stuff than I could possibly follow but it just means you can pick and choose what you want to watch. Wouldnt call it too much starcraft! ^ Pretty much it, yeah. Besides there's also more tournaments for the non-elite players these days too which makes my life as a Gold-player easier. | ||
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MattRz
Chile1680 Posts
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
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twoliveanddie
United States2049 Posts
move that into an entirely different section so that they aren't burried under the everyday events. there are a lot more lower league tournaments during the summer because of school being out, etc that it just makes for a bit more of a challenge to find what you are looking for. | ||
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phisku
Belgium864 Posts
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Rustug
1488 Posts
The power is with the consumer and I think that's a good thing. | ||
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iiGreetings
Canada563 Posts
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em0rej007
France36 Posts
Keep doing a great job | ||
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Executor1
1353 Posts
Especially because there are only a set amount of people right now that say want to watch starcraft tournaments for a few hours everyday. Like when IPL and NASL where going on at the same time. There was almost no overlap in viewer numbers. NASL was getting 10-15k before IPL started. Then IPL started with the same time slot. The viewers got split up down the middle almost with IPL usually pulling in 8-9 and NASL getting 6-7 or vice versa. So i dont think its really a good thing, i would prefer a few companies to succeed then alot of companies to fail at least thats how i look at it. Obviously smaller tournament with smaller prize pools dont have much overhead so getting 1000 viewers is okay for them, but as more leagues pop up (wich they are) viewers will be divided as will players. Obviously viewers have different tastes in players depending on the race they play and the country they come fromm etc. Split viewers = less per stream so its less likely for each individual tournament to do well unfortunately we dont have an infinite amount of viewers in the sc2 esports scene yet, sure for large weekend tournaments we can see impressive numbers but for leagues running 5 days a week the amount of viewers i see that are willing to watch isnt much above 20k (for western tournaments and viewers , gsl and korea is a whole different animal) i honestly dont know what a league like NASL needs in terms of viewers to stay sustainable but i do think they were expecting more viewers then they received especially wiht the division of viewers watching different leagues (during the IPL their numbers more than halved more often that not). I think it will sort itself out eventually and the best leagues that can attract the best players and have the highest productioin value will succeed and the other will fall by the wayside. I just hope it doesnt happen to all of them because of too much viewer division among tournaments. | ||
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
I have stuff to do, SC needs to stop running my life's schedule T_T | ||
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Executor1
1353 Posts
On July 02 2011 19:30 Tofugrinder wrote: the more the better ofc I cant watch all of them, but that's the beauty - everybody chooses the events he/she wants to follow I think thats the problem in terms of leagues actually becoming a success. If NASL didnt have competition during its viewing hours for instance they would see far greater numbers everyday wich means a more sustainable successful league. The thing is no one knows how these new leagues are doing or if they are even a success yet, i guess we will see at the end of NASL season 3 (for instance) i just dont know how succesful a league can be getting 10-15k viewers average it doesnt seem like alot, although the live finals could be really succesful and prove to be like 70% of their profit margin. Honestly myself i bought the hdpass for NASL without even thinking at first i was dissapointed but they finally got it right and it got alot better, still though i find the group play through the normal weeks pretty dull it doesnt really seem like they are fighting for anything, next season ill catch it live if i can but i rarely watch the vods if i miss it live anyways so it just doesnt seem worth it to subscribe again, i think alot of people subscribed to season 1 solely based off of incontrol's hype of the league, he basically said it was going to have gsl like production values but in the west and it didnt come even close, i think that was a huge mistake alot of people got turned off from it right there, look at the first week they had 3 times as many viewers as they got for most of the rest of the tournament, obviously most of that is the product of hype. | ||
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Logginurkeyz
United States375 Posts
I wish SC2 had something like ProLeague and OSL (I suppose MLG is KINDA like OSL- in a very very very loose analogy). Right now what do we have? GSL which is like MSL, GSTL which is like WL, and MLG which shares about 2 traits with OSL... It's awesome for SC2 that there are all these events- but there is a clear line between high profile events like MLG / GSL and events like MotM / EG MC / CraftCup... IMO it would be better if there were more high profile events scheduled around each other so they aren't overlapping in a conflicting manner- then again, the global world is not Korea where all of the participants can make it to a live event fairly easily. =0\ | ||
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PopcornColonel
United States769 Posts
The more tournaments you have, the more non-gamers people will hear about it, the more publicity it gets, the more likely it will be televised in the U.S. Though there are already so many tournaments that you can't watch them all, there are so many football games that you can't watch them all, so you end up watching the most important ones to you. | ||
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EnWara
United States55 Posts
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Makarios
United States1 Post
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LeFroMaGe
United States628 Posts
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hellsan631
United States695 Posts
Football - Superbowl Soccer - World Cup Basketball - NBA Championship Hockey - Stanley Cup Starcraft - OSL, MSL, Proleague Starcraft 2 - GSL, NASL, MLG, IPL, GSTL, WCG, IEM, Dreamhack, TSL Too much? yea, most likely. But I personally only pay attention to NA events (large ones), and im sure most euro's only pay attention to the larger NA events as well as EU ones mainly. Personally, i think there should be a dedicated part of the US or EU to have pratice houses for each team, and run a GSL/GSTL like league, having everything done live like it is in korea. Much better for hype and for events overall if there can be a foreign GSL (nothing comes close to gsl/gstl atm) | ||
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MrClean
Germany7 Posts
It's nice that always something is online when I do a break. At all it's difficult to follow all events (playing and working) | ||
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MechKing
United States3004 Posts
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Legatus Lanius
2135 Posts
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zakutu
United States4 Posts
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Clicker
United States1012 Posts
On July 03 2011 14:38 Legatus Lanius wrote: way too nobody tournaments imo way too many nobody tournaments? that's not fair, are you saying unless you're a straight up pro you shouldn't participate in tournaments for fun/to get better/etcetc? | ||
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LastDance
New Zealand510 Posts
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Anyon3
Germany4 Posts
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kalany
United States149 Posts
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TzTz
Germany511 Posts
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Crt Balorda
Slovenia16 Posts
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Vanimar
220 Posts
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Artunit
Philippines399 Posts
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DamenPulse
United States37 Posts
DamenPulse | ||
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
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qqw
107 Posts
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
A few great tournaments for all to watch [Dreamhack MLG GSL etc], and infinite smaller ones for the localities means all can participate too | ||
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Insomni7
667 Posts
The more the better! | ||
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boyle
United States134 Posts
<3 tl | ||
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confusedcrib
United States1307 Posts
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ODKStevez
Ireland1225 Posts
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29 fps
United States5724 Posts
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
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Altar
United States577 Posts
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DrakanSilva
Chile932 Posts
gogogogo e-sports. | ||
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Cyper
Germany14 Posts
as long as there isnt a league big enough (so that players dont have to give a fuck about other tournaments), the more tournaments the better. winning 5 tournaments for a 100 dollar can save your ass when you dont have a solid salary to live from. | ||
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
For a long time, there weren't many. As such, it was totally possible for anyone who was remotely serious to follow literally every single tournament that there was going on. As the number of events has increased, it has now got to the point where it just isn't possible to follow every tournament. However, this is the case for pretty much every sport. Does a football fan follow every tournament, amateur or pro that goes on? no, he usually picks a league and sticks with it. Same goes for SC2. Pick your leagues you want to follow, and be glad that there's so many small tournaments all the time. | ||
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Scrubwave
Poland1786 Posts
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MinoMino
Norway1103 Posts
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Shirolol
England504 Posts
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k!llua
Australia895 Posts
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Xaxziminrax
United States19 Posts
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
i stick to big lans and the GSL...korean starcraft has a special place in my heart | ||
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CravenRaven
Australia114 Posts
There are too many to keep track... I agree with both of these statements. | ||
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altered
Switzerland646 Posts
On July 04 2011 19:46 Scrubwave wrote: Quality > quantity. I dont need more tournaments but it would be nice if they get bigger and better organized. More viewers is what is important and i dont think more tournaments would attract more viewers but better tournaments could. | ||
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niilzon
Belgium105 Posts
Do you think that pool players keep track of every pool tournament on the planet ? That poker players keep track of all the poker tourneys ? Nono, they don't. They keep track and/or participate into smaller tournaments near their home place, and keep track and/or participate in the "big ones" - just like it should be with e-sports, IMHO | ||
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
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Skoop
United States214 Posts
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MAYKID
United States5 Posts
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elementz
United States281 Posts
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ApBuLLet
United States604 Posts
However, I voted that the number of events right now is fine, but oddly enough I want there to be MORE events. Here is the reasoning for my decision. Right now in SC2, there are a limited number of teams, and a limited number of players. If there were more events then many of them would be filled with people who don't stand much of a chance versus the top players, which in turn makes the tournament rather boring. I think the number of events needs to stay in line with the number of players competing at the top levels, that way those top players do not get spread too thinly throughout tournaments, reducing the overall competition, and consequently lowering the spectator's experience quality. One thing that I think would be great for eSports is further merging of the Korean and foreigner scene. The Korean scene is full of so many players who are not top Korean players, but who would potentially be top players in the foreign scene. Adding the Korean player base to the foreign player base would definitely cause huge growth in terms of the number of competitive players, which, in my opinion, is a great opportunity for more and more events to arise, and eSports to grow as a whole. | ||
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Seawolf105
United States4 Posts
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Existential
Australia2107 Posts
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Order
Lithuania231 Posts
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Svennedude
Belgium86 Posts
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uGoatt
United States85 Posts
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EGfanBoi!DemuFtw
United Kingdom46 Posts
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CellTech
Canada396 Posts
Although I will go into M.I.A. mode for a weekend when Dreamhack / MLG is on. | ||
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xXFireandIceXx
Canada4296 Posts
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Servatose
United States33 Posts
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oo_xerox
United States852 Posts
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