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Power Rank 08/01/2010 - Page 9

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 66 Next
Jaksiel
Profile Joined November 2008
United States4130 Posts
August 03 2010 03:18 GMT
#161
On August 03 2010 10:42 MyLifeForIron wrote:
Just like Jim Rice took a zillion years to get into the baseball hall of fame. Reporters remembered that snarly-ass attitude...and got even by not voting for him.


It wasn't so much "got even" as he didn't deserve to make the Hall based on numbers. I'm still a bit perplexed by his election.
Zero fighting.
asianskill
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States289 Posts
August 03 2010 04:06 GMT
#162
agree with jaedong #1
herrro
snowdrift
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
France2061 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-03 04:47:01
August 03 2010 04:46 GMT
#163
Jaedong #1. I can't complain
NaDa. Our Lord and sAviOr shall return. Learn to nydus you scrub
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
August 03 2010 06:02 GMT
#164
whoops + Show Spoiler +
leta > sea
in WCG
Writer
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
August 03 2010 07:28 GMT
#165
On August 03 2010 12:13 Musoeun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2010 08:03 Mortality wrote:
On August 03 2010 02:44 Musoeun wrote:
I actually don't have many problems with this rank. BeSt and free should be higher, but I concluded a while ago that Plexa hates Protoss. Light on the PR is a little questionable but not too bad. I'd put Sea over fantasy and EffOrt. Minor things.


Plexa hates Protoss? I'm pretty sure he plays Protoss.

The reality is that Protoss players just haven't been dishing out results. Free maybe could have been a bit higher, but I can't seem him even being considered top 5 given the strength of Flash, JD, Effort, Sea, and Fantasy.

Best has been playing well for the first time now in a while. Until July, it seemed like he could only win in PvT. Even now, I wouldn't trust his PvZ to win over any competent Zerg in a bo5. You may consider Light's rank questionable for the same reasons and I'd agree (hey, I like Light and I like Best, but both of them have serious weaknesses).


Riddle me this: why is Stork above free? If Stork is #7, then free should be #6 at least. He doesn't have the same win rate, but he's gotten just as far in the OSL and got farther in the MSL. And hasn't played in the Masters yet (4 of Stork's 8 wins).


I don't think I'd have put Stork over Free either. Stork's play was really good, but Free has been hanging out in the coveted top Protoss spot for the past 3 months or so. Maybe Bisu might be stronger, but I'm hesitant on Bisu's PvT. Free really is the most underrated dragon.

But I have no idea how you are construing Free's relatively low ranking as some kind of general Protoss hate.

On August 03 2010 09:13 Severedevil wrote:
Protoss were kind of boned on maps for a while. Notice the current revival comes when Protoss-friendly maps enter the map pool.


Revival of Protoss? Is that why no Protoss are left in MSL? Is that why Protoss only advanced three players from the Ro36 in OSL?

And looking at the OSL situation, Bisu must beat Action in order to advance. If he loses to Action, then he and Effort will be 0-2 and Leta and Action will be 2-0 and then the last week's games won't matter. Similarly, Pure can only advance if he beats Jaedong and Jaedong beats and Hydra loses both remaining games (that, at least, is somewhat likely), forcing a three way tie-breaker against Jaedong and Hydra. Group D is the main hope for Protoss to go far in this tournament.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Insight
Profile Joined December 2009
19 Posts
August 03 2010 10:03 GMT
#166
"I say that in light of the recent game against Zero which is being hailed as the defining reason why Flash should be number one. True, it was an impressive game and Flash's mechanics were top notch. It was a superb game in every way. But then I think to myself, what if Effort were playing in this position and not Zero? Well the answer is, and was, that Effort would win (see their clash on Fighting Spirit). Effort has Flashes number and knows how to defeat his late-game turtle style"

this is complete and utter bullsh*t, in that FS game effort had ridiculous economic advantage because he faked 2 hatch lurker and sneaked an expo instead, and only way he can beat flash is with risky, cheesy moves like that, every other flash vs effort game that lasted over 10 min was a decisive win for flash
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5599 Posts
August 03 2010 11:28 GMT
#167
On August 03 2010 19:03 Insight wrote:
every other flash vs effort game that lasted over 10 min was a decisive win for flash


http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/41740_EffOrt_vs_Flash
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
MisteR
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Netherlands595 Posts
August 03 2010 12:02 GMT
#168
Power rank is a little better than last month. The defensive tone is unnecessary, since a PR is not a defense, but a statement of your opinion. A couple of players, like Pure, Calm and Hiya, might've deserved a mention, though I'm not sure. At least, I'm glad that Flash is not the-one-that-shall-not-be-criticized anymore and that Effort gets a bit more recognition.
Nal_Ra/Much/Horang2/Flying fighting!~
Insight
Profile Joined December 2009
19 Posts
August 03 2010 12:04 GMT
#169
On August 03 2010 20:28 Elroi wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/41740_EffOrt_vs_Flash

again a late game with severe econ disadvantage for flash

check their eots game in osl finals:


effort gets away with 3 base 3 hat before pool and holds it off, gets 4th up vs flash's 2 but still loses cause he can't keep up with multitask in late game unless he has monsterous advantage
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33502 Posts
August 03 2010 12:13 GMT
#170
It was a hard month to judge with much fewer PL games being played.

I'm not even sure what the criteria should have been for this month, in terms of taking into account long or short term results.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
p14c
Profile Joined May 2010
Vatican City State431 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-03 12:37:44
August 03 2010 12:35 GMT
#171
I will laugh so hard If both Jaedong and Effort get eliminated from OSL!

+ Show Spoiler +
PS: Fantasy also lol!
Game Over, Man! Game Over!
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-03 12:45:29
August 03 2010 12:44 GMT
#172
On August 03 2010 21:35 p14c wrote:
I will laugh so hard If both Jaedong and Effort get eliminated from OSL!

+ Show Spoiler +
PS: Fantasy also lol!

Same here, haha :D

In hindsight it would also be pretty funny if forgg beat flash D:
In the woods, there lurks..
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-03 16:57:44
August 03 2010 16:35 GMT
#173
On August 03 2010 19:03 Insight wrote:
"I say that in light of the recent game against Zero which is being hailed as the defining reason why Flash should be number one. True, it was an impressive game and Flash's mechanics were top notch. It was a superb game in every way. But then I think to myself, what if Effort were playing in this position and not Zero? Well the answer is, and was, that Effort would win (see their clash on Fighting Spirit). Effort has Flashes number and knows how to defeat his late-game turtle style"

this is complete and utter bullsh*t, in that FS game effort had ridiculous economic advantage because he faked 2 hatch lurker and sneaked an expo instead, and only way he can beat flash is with risky, cheesy moves like that, every other flash vs effort game that lasted over 10 min was a decisive win for flash

We've been over this a million times, your argument is based upon a tremendous double standard in which you ridicule EffOrt's mindgame abuse of Flash as "cheesy" and ignore the abusive econ builds that Flash plays on a regular basis.

To win games, you should probably go about getting a huge economic advantage, that's how the game works, and you can't fault players for being good at it. Flash and EffOrt are both excellent at getting and holding the advantage. You can show me one game on EotS, and I can show you a game on FS, or a game on Judgment Day. We're back at square one. One comeback win for Flash doesn't prove anything between two excellent players.

I'm not going to get into this with you beyond that. This is a pretty tired line of argument.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
Garaman
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States556 Posts
August 03 2010 18:15 GMT
#174
i think kal should b above best
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
August 03 2010 18:17 GMT
#175
On August 04 2010 01:35 tree.hugger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2010 19:03 Insight wrote:
"I say that in light of the recent game against Zero which is being hailed as the defining reason why Flash should be number one. True, it was an impressive game and Flash's mechanics were top notch. It was a superb game in every way. But then I think to myself, what if Effort were playing in this position and not Zero? Well the answer is, and was, that Effort would win (see their clash on Fighting Spirit). Effort has Flashes number and knows how to defeat his late-game turtle style"

this is complete and utter bullsh*t, in that FS game effort had ridiculous economic advantage because he faked 2 hatch lurker and sneaked an expo instead, and only way he can beat flash is with risky, cheesy moves like that, every other flash vs effort game that lasted over 10 min was a decisive win for flash

We've been over this a million times, your argument is based upon a tremendous double standard in which you ridicule EffOrt's mindgame abuse of Flash as "cheesy" and ignore the abusive econ builds that Flash plays on a regular basis.

To win games, you should probably go about getting a huge economic advantage, that's how the game works, and you can't fault players for being good at it. Flash and EffOrt are both excellent at getting and holding the advantage. You can show me one game on EotS, and I can show you a game on FS, or a game on Judgment Day. We're back at square one. One comeback win for Flash doesn't prove anything between two excellent players.

I'm not going to get into this with you beyond that. This is a pretty tired line of argument.


Yeah but Effort is demonstrably bad against Mech! The guy picked the totally wrong argument there.
Remember Violet.
Ghardo
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Germany1685 Posts
August 03 2010 21:28 GMT
#176
i really like all the players on this PR. so happy to see best back in shape, bisu and fantasy that high, and effort is a worthy #4 spot as well.

nice, plexa.
yanmaodao
Profile Joined February 2010
United States430 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-03 21:41:23
August 03 2010 21:40 GMT
#177
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2010 09:13 Severedevil wrote:
Protoss were kind of boned on maps for a while. Notice the current revival comes when Protoss-friendly maps enter the map pool.


Revival of Protoss? Is that why no Protoss are left in MSL? Is that why Protoss only advanced three players from the Ro36 in OSL?

And looking at the OSL situation, Bisu must beat Action in order to advance. If he loses to Action, then he and Effort will be 0-2 and Leta and Action will be 2-0 and then the last week's games won't matter. Similarly, Pure can only advance if he beats Jaedong and Jaedong beats and Hydra loses both remaining games (that, at least, is somewhat likely), forcing a three way tie-breaker against Jaedong and Hydra. Group D is the main hope for Protoss to go far in this tournament.


In the proleague, Protoss did much better in successive rounds following the WL low point. The statistics were brought up in another thread. Hell, even the PR you're commenting on features four P, the most we've had in a while.

The introduction of Polaris Rhapsody surely has a lot to do with it, as the first genuinely pro-P map we've had since Destination, but can't be whole story as it's increasingly used as a PvP ghetto, with the only best non-P vP'ers even being considered for it. A large part may just be, while Protoss have always sort of been the third rail of BW progaming, their underperformance in late 2009/early 2010 was a statistical anomaly. There was bound to be some regression back toward the mean.
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
August 03 2010 22:16 GMT
#178
On August 04 2010 06:40 yanmaodao wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2010 09:13 Severedevil wrote:
Protoss were kind of boned on maps for a while. Notice the current revival comes when Protoss-friendly maps enter the map pool.


Revival of Protoss? Is that why no Protoss are left in MSL? Is that why Protoss only advanced three players from the Ro36 in OSL?

And looking at the OSL situation, Bisu must beat Action in order to advance. If he loses to Action, then he and Effort will be 0-2 and Leta and Action will be 2-0 and then the last week's games won't matter. Similarly, Pure can only advance if he beats Jaedong and Jaedong beats and Hydra loses both remaining games (that, at least, is somewhat likely), forcing a three way tie-breaker against Jaedong and Hydra. Group D is the main hope for Protoss to go far in this tournament.


In the proleague, Protoss did much better in successive rounds following the WL low point. The statistics were brought up in another thread. Hell, even the PR you're commenting on features four P, the most we've had in a while.

The introduction of Polaris Rhapsody surely has a lot to do with it, as the first genuinely pro-P map we've had since Destination, but can't be whole story as it's increasingly used as a PvP ghetto, with the only best non-P vP'ers even being considered for it. A large part may just be, while Protoss have always sort of been the third rail of BW progaming, their underperformance in late 2009/early 2010 was a statistical anomaly. There was bound to be some regression back toward the mean.


I'm hesitant to call it a "Protoss revival" without some individual league results. We may have had an upturn in Proleague results, but so far we're seeing a downturn in individual league results, making it a moot point. Protoss can win on Polaris Rhapsody -- fine. But can they win elsewhere? The situation seems grim.

As for "underperformance," it's because of metagame. Zerg was on top of the metagame at that time and ZvP balance was swinging way in favor of Zerg. It wasn't really an anomaly, more like a byproduct.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Fenrax
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States5018 Posts
August 03 2010 23:26 GMT
#179
Gosh. JD vs. Sea, Effort vs. Light, SKT vs. KT. I have NO IDEA how to liquibet that. Anyway, great games incoming and very important for next months PR.
newvsoldschool
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
428 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-04 02:03:16
August 04 2010 01:49 GMT
#180
delete post - i thought this was still july's power rank.
"I was so surprised when I first played StarCraft 2. I couldn't believe that such an easy game exists... I guess the best way to attract people these days is to make things easy and simple." -Midas, Brood War Progamer
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