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Power Rank 05/31/2010 - Page 15

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 13 14 15 16 17 36 Next All
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
June 08 2010 22:35 GMT
#281
lol forget the top 10 they're somewhat solid

here's to Hyuk making that top 10!
cw)minsean(ru
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
June 08 2010 22:38 GMT
#282
On June 09 2010 07:34 SimonB wrote:
Personally, I would put Flash, Jaedong, AND Bisu ahead of Savior, and this isn't just because of the recent news—I've always thought Savior got too much praise for what he did.


Too much praise?
Crushing terrans in a time where T>>Z and the maps were even more T>Z?

How can you not praise that enough?
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
SimonB
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1088 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-08 22:41:26
June 08 2010 22:40 GMT
#283
On June 09 2010 07:38 SuperArc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2010 07:34 SimonB wrote:
Personally, I would put Flash, Jaedong, AND Bisu ahead of Savior, and this isn't just because of the recent news—I've always thought Savior got too much praise for what he did.


Too much praise?
Crushing terrans in a time where T>>Z and the maps were even more T>Z?

How can you not praise that enough?

Both map and race advantage have been way overemphasized.

Bisu's PvZ revolution was far more impressive IMO. That has almost always been the most unfair match up (and unfortunately has returned as such lately), and Bisu completely changed it.
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
June 09 2010 09:57 GMT
#284
Well at the end of the day, when thinking back on bw years from now.
People will remember boxer, nada, oov, savior, bisu, jaedong and flash as the really big names of starcraft.
Some of them get "bonjwa" title because of nostalgia and some wont but it doesn't matter.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
June 09 2010 11:00 GMT
#285
On June 09 2010 07:40 SimonB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2010 07:38 SuperArc wrote:
On June 09 2010 07:34 SimonB wrote:
Personally, I would put Flash, Jaedong, AND Bisu ahead of Savior, and this isn't just because of the recent news—I've always thought Savior got too much praise for what he did.


Too much praise?
Crushing terrans in a time where T>>Z and the maps were even more T>Z?

How can you not praise that enough?

Both map and race advantage have been way overemphasized.

Bisu's PvZ revolution was far more impressive IMO. That has almost always been the most unfair match up (and unfortunately has returned as such lately), and Bisu completely changed it.

Well look at reverse temple. Overall 62% in TvZ. He went 6-1 on it. Without those games, it was 70% TvZ. And those games were against the best TvZ players of that time (Midas, Nada, Iris, Casy...).
But yes, in the case of sAviOr, statistics are not that impressive. His gameplay really was, especially in series.
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
June 09 2010 12:46 GMT
#286
On June 09 2010 07:40 SimonB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2010 07:38 SuperArc wrote:
On June 09 2010 07:34 SimonB wrote:
Personally, I would put Flash, Jaedong, AND Bisu ahead of Savior, and this isn't just because of the recent news—I've always thought Savior got too much praise for what he did.


Too much praise?
Crushing terrans in a time where T>>Z and the maps were even more T>Z?

How can you not praise that enough?

Both map and race advantage have been way overemphasized.

Bisu's PvZ revolution was far more impressive IMO. That has almost always been the most unfair match up (and unfortunately has returned as such lately), and Bisu completely changed it.


sAviOr's management game and 3 hatch style was way more revolutionary than Bisu's Forge FE style. I don't consider Bisu a revolutionary player. All he's done throughout his career is emulate smarter protoss players and win on the behest of his superior mechanics.
RIP Aaliyah
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
June 09 2010 13:56 GMT
#287
On June 09 2010 21:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2010 07:40 SimonB wrote:
On June 09 2010 07:38 SuperArc wrote:
On June 09 2010 07:34 SimonB wrote:
Personally, I would put Flash, Jaedong, AND Bisu ahead of Savior, and this isn't just because of the recent news—I've always thought Savior got too much praise for what he did.


Too much praise?
Crushing terrans in a time where T>>Z and the maps were even more T>Z?

How can you not praise that enough?

Both map and race advantage have been way overemphasized.

Bisu's PvZ revolution was far more impressive IMO. That has almost always been the most unfair match up (and unfortunately has returned as such lately), and Bisu completely changed it.


sAviOr's management game and 3 hatch style was way more revolutionary than Bisu's Forge FE style. I don't consider Bisu a revolutionary player. All he's done throughout his career is emulate smarter protoss players and win on the behest of his superior mechanics.

The mere fact you credit Bisu with forge-fe makes me cringe.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
L0thar
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
987 Posts
June 09 2010 15:38 GMT
#288
On June 09 2010 22:56 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2010 21:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On June 09 2010 07:40 SimonB wrote:
On June 09 2010 07:38 SuperArc wrote:
On June 09 2010 07:34 SimonB wrote:
Personally, I would put Flash, Jaedong, AND Bisu ahead of Savior, and this isn't just because of the recent news—I've always thought Savior got too much praise for what he did.


Too much praise?
Crushing terrans in a time where T>>Z and the maps were even more T>Z?

How can you not praise that enough?

Both map and race advantage have been way overemphasized.

Bisu's PvZ revolution was far more impressive IMO. That has almost always been the most unfair match up (and unfortunately has returned as such lately), and Bisu completely changed it.


sAviOr's management game and 3 hatch style was way more revolutionary than Bisu's Forge FE style. I don't consider Bisu a revolutionary player. All he's done throughout his career is emulate smarter protoss players and win on the behest of his superior mechanics.

The mere fact you credit Bisu with forge-fe makes me cringe.


Isn't he doing the exact opposite?
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
June 09 2010 19:25 GMT
#289
On June 09 2010 22:56 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2010 21:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On June 09 2010 07:40 SimonB wrote:
On June 09 2010 07:38 SuperArc wrote:
On June 09 2010 07:34 SimonB wrote:
Personally, I would put Flash, Jaedong, AND Bisu ahead of Savior, and this isn't just because of the recent news—I've always thought Savior got too much praise for what he did.


Too much praise?
Crushing terrans in a time where T>>Z and the maps were even more T>Z?

How can you not praise that enough?

Both map and race advantage have been way overemphasized.

Bisu's PvZ revolution was far more impressive IMO. That has almost always been the most unfair match up (and unfortunately has returned as such lately), and Bisu completely changed it.


sAviOr's management game and 3 hatch style was way more revolutionary than Bisu's Forge FE style. I don't consider Bisu a revolutionary player. All he's done throughout his career is emulate smarter protoss players and win on the behest of his superior mechanics.

The mere fact you credit Bisu with forge-fe makes me cringe.

he didn't ... he understands the Bisu copied better strategies to win..

but i do disagree. Savior was deemed "unbeatable" in his time. NO protoss could TOUCH him. Terrans were the only ones who stood a chance and the cream of the crop at that time (hwasin, casy, midas) all crumbled before him.
cw)minsean(ru
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-09 20:25:26
June 09 2010 20:24 GMT
#290
On June 10 2010 04:25 DreaM)XeRO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2010 22:56 Plexa wrote:
On June 09 2010 21:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On June 09 2010 07:40 SimonB wrote:
On June 09 2010 07:38 SuperArc wrote:
On June 09 2010 07:34 SimonB wrote:
Personally, I would put Flash, Jaedong, AND Bisu ahead of Savior, and this isn't just because of the recent news—I've always thought Savior got too much praise for what he did.


Too much praise?
Crushing terrans in a time where T>>Z and the maps were even more T>Z?

How can you not praise that enough?

Both map and race advantage have been way overemphasized.

Bisu's PvZ revolution was far more impressive IMO. That has almost always been the most unfair match up (and unfortunately has returned as such lately), and Bisu completely changed it.


sAviOr's management game and 3 hatch style was way more revolutionary than Bisu's Forge FE style. I don't consider Bisu a revolutionary player. All he's done throughout his career is emulate smarter protoss players and win on the behest of his superior mechanics.

The mere fact you credit Bisu with forge-fe makes me cringe.

he didn't ... he understands the Bisu copied better strategies to win..

but i do disagree. Savior was deemed "unbeatable" in his time. NO protoss could TOUCH him. Terrans were the only ones who stood a chance and the cream of the crop at that time (hwasin, casy, midas) all crumbled before him.


Actually he never really mastered ZvZ...
His zvp was awesome, but imo he did far too many hydrabusts

So basically, in a Bo5.
No protoss would win over him.
Some terrans could challange him (top4 or so).
Many zergs could beat him.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3019 Posts
June 09 2010 20:44 GMT
#291
What would be more interesting than talking about bonjwa (which is basically a yes or no question with undefined parameters) is talking about where players stand in a hypothetical SC "hall of fame". Something like the Pyramid (from Bill Simmons' "The Book of Basketball") would be pretty entertaining to construct.

Tier 1 (the Pantheon, in other words the greatest players of all time):
Boxer, Nada, Oov, Savior, Bisu, Jaedong, Flash

Tier 2 (elite players, players who were at or near the top for a long time - kind of like guys who would have made "first team NBA" many times, but in the end they simply don't make the cut for the pantheon)
Examples: Garimto, Kingdom, Yellow, Reach, Nal_Ra, July, Chojja, Stork, I probably left a few guys off and I don't know that much about the early early days

Tier 3 (great players, "perennial all stars", players who might have been the best or one of the best in their race for awhile)
Examples: Xellos (upper end of tier 3), Anytime, Midas? Hwasin (lower end of tier 3)? GoRush

debating whether a guy like Sea should be here would be interesting, same goes for Free (tier 5 in my opinion) Kal (belongs here in my opinion), Best (belongs here in my opinion), etc., Effort probably belongs here for his monster 2009 plus title but I'm sure some people disagree. I'd also put Fantasy and Jangbi here for back to back silvers and prolonged periods of being a top player.

Tier 4a (champions who in the end, weren't as good as players in tier 3 who might not have ever won a title)
Examples: Sync, Mind, ForGG, Calm, Luxury, GGPlay (this one might be controversial), come to mind, as well as many many more ... does Casy belong here or above?

Tier 5 for players who were good for a long time, great for maybe a short time or not at all, but have some combination of short term results and long term longevity
Examples: guys like Kwanro come to mind, Iris? (maybe Iris belongs in tier 3?) Yarnc, Light, Much, FBH

The beauty of this is that it's not that black and white, most players who were near the top for awhile should probably be listed somewhere but the question is where. For example, where does Leta belong?

This would make for a fun article
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-09 22:51:22
June 09 2010 22:50 GMT
#292
i thought about an sc hall of fame post but the answer is so obvious it can be said in one line:

Boxer, Nada, iloveoov, Nal_rA, Reach, Yellow, July.

Future HOFers would include Flash, JD, and Bisu.

Savior is out due to match fixing.
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3019 Posts
June 09 2010 23:57 GMT
#293
On June 10 2010 07:50 jalstar wrote:
i thought about an sc hall of fame post but the answer is so obvious it can be said in one line:

Boxer, Nada, iloveoov, Nal_rA, Reach, Yellow, July.

Future HOFers would include Flash, JD, and Bisu.

Savior is out due to match fixing.


The point is not for a "you're in or you're out" dividing line but rather where people land.

For instance, Nal_Ra was great but he doesn't belong in the same tier of greatness as Nada. Distinguishing these cases would be the interesting part.
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
June 10 2010 08:49 GMT
#294
On June 10 2010 08:57 darktreb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2010 07:50 jalstar wrote:
i thought about an sc hall of fame post but the answer is so obvious it can be said in one line:

Boxer, Nada, iloveoov, Nal_rA, Reach, Yellow, July.

Future HOFers would include Flash, JD, and Bisu.

Savior is out due to match fixing.


The point is not for a "you're in or you're out" dividing line but rather where people land.

For instance, Nal_Ra was great but he doesn't belong in the same tier of greatness as Nada. Distinguishing these cases would be the interesting part.

Depends which time you talk about, as far as I know he was the best toss (undtill Bisu) when sAviOr was the best Z out there.
In the woods, there lurks..
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
June 10 2010 09:17 GMT
#295
Snow did a good job in defending his #5 spot today.
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
hitthat
Profile Joined January 2010
Poland2349 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-10 10:21:13
June 10 2010 10:20 GMT
#296
I vote to make a collective spot for SKT1 Zergs in next PR :D

and now i'm impressed with Snow's TvP.
Shameless BroodWar separatistic, elitist, fanaticaly devoted puritan fanboy.
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
June 10 2010 12:28 GMT
#297
Oh BTW Snow's PvT ELO peak reached top5 level.
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
J1.au
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia3596 Posts
June 10 2010 12:51 GMT
#298
On June 10 2010 19:20 hitthat wrote:
I vote to make a collective spot for SKT1 Zergs in next PR :D

and now i'm impressed with Snow's TvP.

Snow plays Terran?
hitthat
Profile Joined January 2010
Poland2349 Posts
June 10 2010 12:56 GMT
#299
Lol sorry, it should be PvT

My bad again
Shameless BroodWar separatistic, elitist, fanaticaly devoted puritan fanboy.
HnR)hT
Profile Joined October 2002
United States3468 Posts
June 10 2010 14:55 GMT
#300
On June 09 2010 07:40 SimonB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2010 07:38 SuperArc wrote:
On June 09 2010 07:34 SimonB wrote:
Personally, I would put Flash, Jaedong, AND Bisu ahead of Savior, and this isn't just because of the recent news—I've always thought Savior got too much praise for what he did.


Too much praise?
Crushing terrans in a time where T>>Z and the maps were even more T>Z?

How can you not praise that enough?

Both map and race advantage have been way overemphasized.

Bisu's PvZ revolution was far more impressive IMO. That has almost always been the most unfair match up (and unfortunately has returned as such lately), and Bisu completely changed it.

The PvZ Revolution is over. Black reaction has triumphed
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