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[PL] Stats Report Week 6
November 23rd, 2008 23:11 GMT
Banner by pachi
Here we go again; the twelve teams of Proleague have completed their short week after WCG. This one was a week full of surprises as some of the most dominant teams out there are starting to show some cracks in their play. One of the oldest teams around also gave us a surprise (well it was to some) as they drop even lower in the rankings. The Emperor is drawing near to his end at ACE as his army service ends next month, things seem to be going from bad to worse for ACE. Beyond that there were quite a few upsets this week, lets take a look.
The Team Standings
Lecaf OZ has dominated the Proleague since the opening of the 08-09 season, only dropping one match up to week six. This week they went 1-1, defeating Air Force ACE 3-0 and losing a close set to STX (3-2). While this is no reason for OZ fans to lose faith it could be a sign of what is to come. Lecaf may have overextended themselves too early in the season and are now paying the price as every team is vying for their head. They still maintain a strong lineup with good ace players to back them up and I don’t see them going anywhere in the next few months.
After their defeat of top spot Lecaf STX jumped two spots and are now right on the OZ clans heels. This team also boasts a rather extensive roster with Kal, July, Calm and Hwasin around to put up when it counts. STX Soul is only one loss behind Lecaf at 7-3 (26-22) which could easily put them in the top spot after Week 7 if they win out and Lecaf drops one match.
Next up is Samsung KHAN a team known for their Proleague prowess, not to mention a finalist in both individual leagues and a winner to boot. Due to the by they have received already they are one game behind the two teams ahead of them. KHAN is at 6-3 (24-18) they maintain a better individual record than any team besides Lecaf. KHAN has one of the deepest lineups in Proleague, if not the deepest, and it really shows in their individual stats. After they beat ACE 3-1 they had to face STX, in the middle of a hot streak of six games KHAN was looking to continue. Soul would have none of it though, 3-2 even with Stork playing twice (he lost both games, noob).
OGN Sparkyz got a nice break this week, only playing one match after WCG. They went up against the KTF Magicns and managed to shut them out in a 3-0 victory. Though Flash made no appearance the other Golden Boy at KTF, Luxury played a game against Spear which he lost. OGN is now 6-4 (25-19) they are close to KHAN at this point and if they can maintain the strength they showed against KTF they could move up in the next few weeks.
Here comes a fact which many people will consider a surprise, personally I saw it coming for a few weeks. The Woongjin Stars have moved up to the fifth place position! Considering that as the Hanbit Stars they finished the season barely above ACE and eSTRO this is huge for them. The Stars have identical stats with OGN (6-4/25-19) they have really picked up the pace since discovering how bad ass Free is and getting GGPlay back in the lineup. They defeated SKT in the series which marked the return of Iloveoov to playing, he was defeated by Zero. GGPlay then went on to defeat S2 to seal the match at 3-1. I wish I could call this an upset but considering SKTs recent performance I expect these kinds of results from SKT.
No I did not edit Stork out.
Two positions below Sparkyz is my old favorite team, home to Nal_Ra and Reach. Home to the Storm Zerg, even the mighty NaDa has rested his laurels here. But those days are no more as the KTF Magicns ride their aces like a dead horse and drop games to less skilled players. They are 6-4 (23-19) in sixth place, which would give them a playoff seat if this were the end of the season. Though it could be said they are doing just fine in the early season, they are not living up to their ace duo of Flash/Luxury. If you can’t even make it to an ace match those two don’t really matter that much. Come on KTF show the world you are better than sixth place.
MBC Hero has been giving it their all this season, though they are at seventh right now I expect them to move up sooner or later. They faced off with eSTRO and WeMade this week, losing to the former and going 3-0 against the latter. Their record stands at 5-4 (20-18), due to already receiving their bye they are behind the teams ahead of them, though without that by they could also be farther back. Their loss to eSTRO does nothing to reaffirm my belief that they are better than their spot, but only time will tell where this team is going.
WeMade FOX is the worst team in Proleague. There I said it. They have been performing to the definition of mediocre. With players like Mind NaDa and Rock they should be able to maintain a better record than 4-5 (17-23).
It breaks my heart to say it but CJ Entus is in ninth place right now. Going 3-5 (17-17) doesn’t make any sense when you look at who this team is fielding for their matches. Besides FOX and one other old school team CJ has failed to meet expectations the most this season.
Now we come to the final three spots in the rankings. Populated by two teams one would and should expect to be there, and one team which should never ever be this desolate. Of course the first two I speak of are eSTRO and ACE. The proverbial losers of pro gaming, not much of a surprise there, though ACE has been doing worse than I expected. eSTRO defeated MBC this week; they are 3-7 (21-25) with wins over MBC, SKT and CJ. The third team, at the number eleven spot is SKT Telecom; there are not words to describe my disappointment, so their stats will have to do. 3-7 (19-27). Those stats are absolutely horrible. ACE is still in last place, going 1-9 (9-27) which puts them at -18, ten points behind SKT.
Individual Rankings
The mighty Proleague monster that is Flash (9-3) was knocked off his throne this week, mostly due to the fact that he never got a chance to play. Best (9-3) takes his spot thought his team has not been able to perform as well as he. Best and Bisu are the only SKT1 players in the top twenty five. One of my favorite players as of recent, Free (8-2), comes in at third. For a good reason too, this kid has been leading the charge for the Stars and it has paid off this week as they finally move out of the bottom half.
Full Individual Ranking (Click)
(Courtesy of Pop and TLPD, always current)
Pusan (6-1) and Calm (9-4) come up next in the top ten, the former after the latter, though if Pusan keeps his streak up he will overtake Calm. MBC has fallen a few spots in the last week, but they also had to go up against some rather tough opponents in previous weeks. STX has all their marbles on Calm as he leads them to second place this week, only Kal is near the top 25 for STX and even then he is a few spots away. Jaedong (8-4) and Zero are next in line, the Legend Killer is underperforming all across the board lately and PL is no exception. Zero is the second half of the Stars success he has gone 7-3. Zero and Free are responsible for over half of Woongjins wins this season.
Ace Match Statistics
Stork (6-3) and Jangbi (5-1) drop out of the top ten this week, but never fear for FireBatHero (6-3) is here! FBH has started to perform, finally, and now the three of them are just outside of the top ten looking in. KHAN has more players than any other team in the top ten, which really speaks to how deep their bench is. That may be the main reason why no KHAN player is in the top 25, they just have too many good players to give enough games to one of them. On a side note, Oversky (5-2) is responsible for over half of Aces’ wins by himself and is right behind the KHAN trio at number fourteen.
Luxury (6-4) has been trying his hardest to keep KTF afloat, along with Flash, they comprise the main strategy of KTF, but they need some more strong players. Flash and Luxury are the only two players from KTF in the top 25, the closest is Sair who is 3-2 and shows no signs of going anywhere.
Next are the twins from eSTRO, Sangho (4-2) and Upmagic (4-2). The two of them have been trying even harder than the KTF Golden Boys to keep their team from fading away. Through all their efforts they have moved out of the bottom two teams into the bottom three. Though they are ahead of SKT and ACE they really need a player who can seal up a match, the large majority of their games go to an ace and they have trouble ending it well.
Savior and Co are not faring well this season.
Savior (4-2) and Iris (4-2) are the only two players in the top 25 for CJ. They are in 21st and 22nd place right now. CJ lacks a player in the top 20 and by product they are in the bottom half of the rankings so far this season, only ahead of SKT, eSTRO and ACE. If they aren’t careful they could find themselves behind eSTRO in a couple of weeks.
Roro (6-4) is only player in the top 25 for WeMade (Nada is now at number 26). I really don’t like WeMade this season, especially since Mind, Nada and Rock have all failed to perform up their names. Though Rock is not the best player around he can definitely put up a fight against the big names, and should be able to dispatch filler matches with ease. Mind is clawing his way into the top 50, the TOP 50! Go away WeMade, I hate you.
Terran continues to have troubles keeping a decent amount of players in the top 25 this week. The maps are mostly to blame though, along with the lack of a large group of dominant Terrans. Protoss and Zerg have quite a few members of that group while Terran players have been few and far between as of late. Flash and Leta are on top for the Human race but after them only FBH and Upmagic hold spots inside the top 20. There are more Zerg and Protoss in the top 10 than Terran in the top 20.
A Lesson In Failed Expectations
This entire week has been terrible for some of the most popular and strong teams in Proleague. MBC dropped a match to eSTRO, SKT fell yet another spot after losing to the Stars and CJ Entus continues to perform sub par. SKT1 is by far the team which is under performing the most, with Best, Bisu, Fantasy, Oov and a long list of non-ace players they should be doing better. Hopefully they will pick up a good Zerg soon, which is very possible due to the new free agents on the market this month.
That’s it for Week Sixes Stats Report. I hope you enjoyed it more than I; writing about how bad my favorite teams are doing isn’t too much fun. Stay tuned for the upcoming weeks matches and the report for them. Until then, take it easy TL.
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Sorry about how late this report is everyone. I have been a bit busy the past week with school and whtnot.
Cheers!
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It's all good homie. I never get a chance to watch ProLeague, so these really help me know what's been going on!
Thanks :D
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no problem at least it is here <3
wasn't able to keep up with proleague this week so i am happy about this
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I click Full Individual Ranking (Click)
and it says
No Entries
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Currently theres a bug in TLPD, pop is on it though, dw!
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great work. i wish savior would pick up his slack.
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You need to back off of eSTRO... especially now that they have won a few in a row and are NOT in the bottom 3.
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They are still a lackluster team that cannot field a decent ace for the life of them. With that record I still dont call them a decent team, though if Sangho or Sea.Really can fill that position I could see them edging into the top six by then end of the season. But can you really imagine them winning the Proleague Finals? Give me a break. eSTRO sucks, sorry.
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Fox needs to start putting nada out every week if they want a shot at the playoffs, seriously. Althought they are probably doing so fucking awful because they are a terren-heavy team with a mappool that utterly sucks for terren ATM.
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On November 25 2008 03:27 SpiralArchitect wrote:
They are still a lackluster team that cannot field a decent ace for the life of them. With that record I still dont call them a decent team, though if Sangho or Sea.Really can fill that position I could see them edging into the top six by then end of the season. But can you really imagine them winning the Proleague Finals? Give me a break. eSTRO sucks, sorry.
someone who doesnt know what hes talking about should be a bit more humble about presenting his opinion.
they dont suck by any stretch of the imagination
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On November 25 2008 03:27 SpiralArchitect wrote:
They are still a lackluster team that cannot field a decent ace for the life of them. With that record I still dont call them a decent team, though if Sangho or Sea.Really can fill that position I could see them edging into the top six by then end of the season. But can you really imagine them winning the Proleague Finals? Give me a break. eSTRO sucks, sorry.
So because you can't imagine them winning the PL finals, they suck? Not all teams are at either end of the extremes. Teams can be 'ok' and eSTRO is performing decently and if anything, above almost everyone's expectations. Give credit where credit is due. They have gone to ace 8 games out of 10 so obviously the're doing something right, giving legit teams a run for their money.
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With Lecaf OZ losing last week to samsung does that mean that STX has moved up to first place?
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On November 25 2008 03:53 StalinRusH wrote:
With Lecaf OZ losing last week to samsung does that mean that STX has moved up to first place?
No, because Khan has better individual records, which is the tie-breaker. Not that it really matters this early in the season though, but something to look out for later on in the year. Individual records is also a good indication of a team's overall ability.
I really can see Lecaf stumbling, because without ForGG to back up Jaedong as a second Ace, this team is just like KTF and way too reliant on one person dominating. STX, on the other hand, is moving up with Kal improving and Calm playing well in general.
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Nice!
I think the critique that was dished out was well deserved, especially by SKT1 and Wemade. Though you should give Estro some credit for moving out of the bottom two, it's quite the achivement, though I agree that they truly suck in comparison to the top teams.
And wtf CJ, get you shit together!
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On November 25 2008 03:52 Dknight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2008 03:27 SpiralArchitect wrote:
They are still a lackluster team that cannot field a decent ace for the life of them. With that record I still dont call them a decent team, though if Sangho or Sea.Really can fill that position I could see them edging into the top six by then end of the season. But can you really imagine them winning the Proleague Finals? Give me a break. eSTRO sucks, sorry. So because you can't imagine them winning the PL finals, they suck? Not all teams are at either end of the extremes. Teams can be 'ok' and eSTRO is performing decently and if anything, above almost everyone's expectations. Give credit where credit is due. They have gone to ace 8 games out of 10 so obviously the're doing something right, giving legit teams a run for their money.
They suck because they finished last season behind ACE and this season have failed to deliver in almost all of their matches. I said that if they can field a good ace they will be a good team but how can you say that the fact that they "almost" beat 8 out of 10 opponents makes them good? I guess maybe suck was a strong word, but they aren't a fantastic team. I think they have alot of potential to do better than last season but they aren't a top tier team, or even close to being one. Its not like losing a football game 21-7 is any worse than 21-17.
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Awesome write-up, tx once more. ^^
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wow... so much info....
haha very awesome read,
im still in shock about + Show Spoiler +Jaedong losing so bad during ace math to FBH.... 0.o
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United States13143 Posts
On November 25 2008 04:00 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2008 03:53 StalinRusH wrote:
With Lecaf OZ losing last week to samsung does that mean that STX has moved up to first place? No, because Khan has better individual records, which is the tie-breaker. Not that it really matters this early in the season though, but something to look out for later on in the year. Individual records is also a good indication of a team's overall ability. I really can see Lecaf stumbling, because without ForGG to back up Jaedong as a second Ace, this team is just like KTF and way too reliant on one person dominating. STX, on the other hand, is moving up with Kal improving and Calm playing well in general.
+ Show Spoiler [KHAN vs Lecaf and STX vs ACE] +I believe that after last night's games with STX thrashing ACE 3-0, and the night before that with KHAN beating Lecaf 3-2, STX is currently in first place with 8-3(+7 in games), while KHAN and Lecaf are tied for second and third at 7-3(+7).
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very great read 
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On November 25 2008 03:46 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2008 03:27 SpiralArchitect wrote:
They are still a lackluster team that cannot field a decent ace for the life of them. With that record I still dont call them a decent team, though if Sangho or Sea.Really can fill that position I could see them edging into the top six by then end of the season. But can you really imagine them winning the Proleague Finals? Give me a break. eSTRO sucks, sorry. someone who doesnt know what hes talking about should be a bit more humble about presenting his opinion. they dont suck by any stretch of the imagination
O thank you Great One. The eyes, they are opened.
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Luxury (6-4) has been trying his hardest to keep KTF afloat, along with Flash, they compromise the main strategy of KTF, but they need some more strong players. Flash and Luxury are the only two players from KTF in the top 25, the closest is Sair who is 3-2 and shows no signs of going anywhere.
This part needs to be fixed. The word you're looking for is "...along with Flash, they comprise the main strategy...".
Compromise is to make an agreement between two or more parties where all both gain and sacrifice. Comprise is a word used to refer to the makeup or composition of something.
Other than that, great write-up.
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Haha thanks for picking that up man, I have a habit of mistakes like that on a keyboard, such as "their" and "there" though that one is a lot more common than most. Fixed.
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I think UpMagic and Sea.Really will pick it up for eSTRO, as well as Tester. Not sure what Zergs they have but eSTRO is going to pick up the slack. They do have the mentality for it. That is to say right now, they do suck. Good teams don't have 3-7 records. Imo, eSTRO needs to play more to prove they're a decent team.
Besides that, SKT T1 sucks. Buy a freaking zerg! Or let Fantasy play zerg or something. Jesus christ this team pisses me off and it's not like I can hate them or anything, since i love them so much T_T.
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im sure none of the SKT fans wanna show their face cause of how horrible they're doing 
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Damn Leta is such a great clutch player, gotta love that guy.
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WeMade FOX is the worst team in Proleague. There I said it. They have been performing to the definition of mediocre. With players like Mind NaDa and Rock they should be able to maintain a better record than 4-5 (17-23).
hahaha....
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On November 25 2008 05:50 Equinox_kr wrote:
Damn Leta is such a great clutch player, gotta love that guy.
Leta is awesome, I hope we see some individual ownage out of him soon.
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On November 25 2008 05:40 Tensai176 wrote:
I think UpMagic and Sea.Really will pick it up for eSTRO, as well as Tester. Not sure what Zergs they have but eSTRO is going to pick up the slack. They do have the mentality for it. That is to say right now, they do suck. Good teams don't have 3-7 records. Imo, eSTRO needs to play more to prove they're a decent team.
Besides that, SKT T1 sucks. Buy a freaking zerg! Or let Fantasy play zerg or something. Jesus christ this team pisses me off and it's not like I can hate them or anything, since i love them so much T_T.
Thats the truth. They are doing much much better, I think every team can't underestimate them now though, they HAVE been going to ACE matches all the time.
I think their zerg lineup isn't that great though, which is the biggest problem. Magma is like the only good zerg, but he cracks under pressure. Which is a shame, because that guy kicks some serious trash.
SKT1 is just unnacceptable though. Come on!
Stars is gonna be the dark horse though, for sure.
I do find it hilarious that ACE 3-0'd Estro. I mean, thats gotta be like the one team they just plan all day for just to defeat them and they run off laughing hysterically about.
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Nice report dude. Helps for those of us who don't have time to keep up with all the PL stuff that's going on.
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Go go go STX SouL~! =) Thanks for the PL report.
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On November 25 2008 04:37 SpiralArchitect wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2008 03:52 Dknight wrote:On November 25 2008 03:27 SpiralArchitect wrote:
They are still a lackluster team that cannot field a decent ace for the life of them. With that record I still dont call them a decent team, though if Sangho or Sea.Really can fill that position I could see them edging into the top six by then end of the season. But can you really imagine them winning the Proleague Finals? Give me a break. eSTRO sucks, sorry. So because you can't imagine them winning the PL finals, they suck? Not all teams are at either end of the extremes. Teams can be 'ok' and eSTRO is performing decently and if anything, above almost everyone's expectations. Give credit where credit is due. They have gone to ace 8 games out of 10 so obviously the're doing something right, giving legit teams a run for their money. They suck because they finished last season behind ACE and this season have failed to deliver in almost all of their matches. I said that if they can field a good ace they will be a good team but how can you say that the fact that they "almost" beat 8 out of 10 opponents makes them good? I guess maybe suck was a strong word, but they aren't a fantastic team. I think they have alot of potential to do better than last season but they aren't a top tier team, or even close to being one. Its not like losing a football game 21-7 is any worse than 21-17.
How have they failed to deliver in almost all of their matches? They took 8 of their games to the ace match. They are no longer the walkover they used to be and are clearly improving. Going from 12th to 10th is a step in the right direction. Regarding your last two sentences...no one ever said they were a top tier or close to being one.
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Estro is ahead of SKT1 :O
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United States13896 Posts
CJ was 4-5 at the end of last week. And + Show Spoiler +with their win against MBC the other night they're at a healthy 5-5, right in the hunt for the playoffs.
I'm not sure saying they're failing to meet expectations is fair really. Who honestly expected them to be a top team this year? The realistic thing to say at the beginning of the season was that they are a middle of the pack team who should have a good shot at sneaking into the top 6 and making it into the postseason. So far, they've beaten ACE, SKT, WeMade, Woongjin, and + Show Spoiler +while they've lost to STX, KHAN, KTF, OGN, and eSTRO. The only match where they really underperformed was against eSTRO. The other matches, they either lost to teams that they were expected to lose to, or they won against teams they were expected to beat.
They're pretty much performing right up to expectations in my book, although it would be nice if they exceeded expectations in round 2.
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is awesome32277 Posts
In the individual stats, GGPlay is still listed as CJ :p
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On November 25 2008 04:51 Elyvilon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2008 04:00 baubo wrote:On November 25 2008 03:53 StalinRusH wrote:
With Lecaf OZ losing last week to samsung does that mean that STX has moved up to first place? No, because Khan has better individual records, which is the tie-breaker. Not that it really matters this early in the season though, but something to look out for later on in the year. Individual records is also a good indication of a team's overall ability. I really can see Lecaf stumbling, because without ForGG to back up Jaedong as a second Ace, this team is just like KTF and way too reliant on one person dominating. STX, on the other hand, is moving up with Kal improving and Calm playing well in general. + Show Spoiler [KHAN vs Lecaf and STX vs ACE] +I believe that after last night's games with STX thrashing ACE 3-0, and the night before that with KHAN beating Lecaf 3-2, STX is currently in first place with 8-3(+7 in games), while KHAN and Lecaf are tied for second and third at 7-3(+7).
My bad. You're right, I was just looking at week 6 stats for that.
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On November 25 2008 07:31 Dknight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2008 04:37 SpiralArchitect wrote:On November 25 2008 03:52 Dknight wrote:On November 25 2008 03:27 SpiralArchitect wrote:
They are still a lackluster team that cannot field a decent ace for the life of them. With that record I still dont call them a decent team, though if Sangho or Sea.Really can fill that position I could see them edging into the top six by then end of the season. But can you really imagine them winning the Proleague Finals? Give me a break. eSTRO sucks, sorry. So because you can't imagine them winning the PL finals, they suck? Not all teams are at either end of the extremes. Teams can be 'ok' and eSTRO is performing decently and if anything, above almost everyone's expectations. Give credit where credit is due. They have gone to ace 8 games out of 10 so obviously the're doing something right, giving legit teams a run for their money. They suck because they finished last season behind ACE and this season have failed to deliver in almost all of their matches. I said that if they can field a good ace they will be a good team but how can you say that the fact that they "almost" beat 8 out of 10 opponents makes them good? I guess maybe suck was a strong word, but they aren't a fantastic team. I think they have alot of potential to do better than last season but they aren't a top tier team, or even close to being one. Its not like losing a football game 21-7 is any worse than 21-17. How have they failed to deliver in almost all of their matches? They took 8 of their games to the ace match. They are no longer the walkover they used to be and are clearly improving. Going from 12th to 10th is a step in the right direction. Regarding your last two sentences...no one ever said they were a top tier or close to being one.
They have improved yes but taking a match to an ace set then losing is not delivering. I admit eSTRO is doing better but they are still a crappy team.
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United States3824 Posts
What is this estro beating SKT buisness? How depressing
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On November 25 2008 11:04 SpiralArchitect wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2008 07:31 Dknight wrote:On November 25 2008 04:37 SpiralArchitect wrote:On November 25 2008 03:52 Dknight wrote:On November 25 2008 03:27 SpiralArchitect wrote:
They are still a lackluster team that cannot field a decent ace for the life of them. With that record I still dont call them a decent team, though if Sangho or Sea.Really can fill that position I could see them edging into the top six by then end of the season. But can you really imagine them winning the Proleague Finals? Give me a break. eSTRO sucks, sorry. So because you can't imagine them winning the PL finals, they suck? Not all teams are at either end of the extremes. Teams can be 'ok' and eSTRO is performing decently and if anything, above almost everyone's expectations. Give credit where credit is due. They have gone to ace 8 games out of 10 so obviously the're doing something right, giving legit teams a run for their money. They suck because they finished last season behind ACE and this season have failed to deliver in almost all of their matches. I said that if they can field a good ace they will be a good team but how can you say that the fact that they "almost" beat 8 out of 10 opponents makes them good? I guess maybe suck was a strong word, but they aren't a fantastic team. I think they have alot of potential to do better than last season but they aren't a top tier team, or even close to being one. Its not like losing a football game 21-7 is any worse than 21-17. How have they failed to deliver in almost all of their matches? They took 8 of their games to the ace match. They are no longer the walkover they used to be and are clearly improving. Going from 12th to 10th is a step in the right direction. Regarding your last two sentences...no one ever said they were a top tier or close to being one. They have improved yes but taking a match to an ace set then losing is not delivering. I admit eSTRO is doing better but they are still a crappy team.
theyre on a 3 match win streak and only like 1 of their losses didnt go to ace. that in itself is not sucking, not to mention the potential it shows.
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To me having potential does not speak as loud as being in the bottom quarter of the rankings. Their record, to me, says they suck.
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never thought that woongjin would actually win that much
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omg lack of 2v2 is raping ACE so hard... T_T
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On November 25 2008 13:09 SpiralArchitect wrote:
To me having potential does not speak as loud as being in the bottom quarter of the rankings. Their record, to me, says they suck.
thats because you know nothing about broodwar and so can only look at statistics instead of the quality of their players. actually you must be pretty dumb in general because it doesnt even require knowledge of bw to see the fact that all losses being 2-3 shows they were almost there and the 3 game win streak shows that theyre pulling the last bits together.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 25 2008 17:18 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2008 13:09 SpiralArchitect wrote:
To me having potential does not speak as loud as being in the bottom quarter of the rankings. Their record, to me, says they suck. thats because you know nothing about broodwar and so can only look at statistics instead of the quality of their players. actually you must be pretty dumb in general because it doesnt even require knowledge of bw to see the fact that all losses being 2-3 shows they were almost there and the 3 game win streak shows that theyre pulling the last bits together. With that said, with this round almost over all its saying is too little too late. However we should expect to see estro climb in the coming round(s)
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gj stx one staying on 2nd..:D
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On November 25 2008 04:37 SpiralArchitect wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2008 03:52 Dknight wrote:On November 25 2008 03:27 SpiralArchitect wrote:
They are still a lackluster team that cannot field a decent ace for the life of them. With that record I still dont call them a decent team, though if Sangho or Sea.Really can fill that position I could see them edging into the top six by then end of the season. But can you really imagine them winning the Proleague Finals? Give me a break. eSTRO sucks, sorry. So because you can't imagine them winning the PL finals, they suck? Not all teams are at either end of the extremes. Teams can be 'ok' and eSTRO is performing decently and if anything, above almost everyone's expectations. Give credit where credit is due. They have gone to ace 8 games out of 10 so obviously the're doing something right, giving legit teams a run for their money. They suck because they finished last season behind ACE and this season have failed to deliver in almost all of their matches. I said that if they can field a good ace they will be a good team but how can you say that the fact that they "almost" beat 8 out of 10 opponents makes them good? I guess maybe suck was a strong word, but they aren't a fantastic team. I think they have alot of potential to do better than last season but they aren't a top tier team, or even close to being one. Its not like losing a football game 21-7 is any worse than 21-17.
Nevertheless I believe this is a good improvement leading somewhere. Give them one more season then maybe they might edge somewhere near the playoffs.
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On November 25 2008 19:15 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2008 17:18 IdrA wrote:On November 25 2008 13:09 SpiralArchitect wrote:
To me having potential does not speak as loud as being in the bottom quarter of the rankings. Their record, to me, says they suck. thats because you know nothing about broodwar and so can only look at statistics instead of the quality of their players. actually you must be pretty dumb in general because it doesnt even require knowledge of bw to see the fact that all losses being 2-3 shows they were almost there and the 3 game win streak shows that theyre pulling the last bits together. With that said, with this round almost over all its saying is too little too late. However we should expect to see estro climb in the coming round(s)
not really since we were talking about the quality of the team, not the performance of the team
("estro sucks" not "estro's record sucks")
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the problem is the focus you give on eSTRO. They used to just suck and be on the receiving end every time but lately they have been improving a lot and no team this season could say it was an easy win (except for ACE ). So instead of saying what has changed on the team you go on "oh, they still suck HAHA" which just discredits them. Not cool really.
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Well I personally look forward to seeing Stars resurrect and eStro pull a one time. Plz.
And Obv, my team will win PL... Best will carry us there!
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On November 25 2008 17:18 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2008 13:09 SpiralArchitect wrote:
To me having potential does not speak as loud as being in the bottom quarter of the rankings. Their record, to me, says they suck. thats because you know nothing about broodwar and so can only look at statistics instead of the quality of their players. actually you must be pretty dumb in general because it doesnt even require knowledge of bw to see the fact that all losses being 2-3 shows they were almost there and the 3 game win streak shows that theyre pulling the last bits together.
I've watched some of Artosis' vods, and basically it seems like they practice a lot for matches and generally over-achieving. They're not participating in individual leagues except for Upmagic, so they devote full time to PL. They're outworking other teams, but I don't know how long they can keep this up.
I like this team, and sort of keeping tabs on them. But estro is still quite lacking in the talent(not potential, but current talent) department. And unless their kids blossom, they're still considered bottom tier, IMO.
Oh, and estro needs an ace badly.
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On November 25 2008 23:18 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2008 17:18 IdrA wrote:On November 25 2008 13:09 SpiralArchitect wrote:
To me having potential does not speak as loud as being in the bottom quarter of the rankings. Their record, to me, says they suck. thats because you know nothing about broodwar and so can only look at statistics instead of the quality of their players. actually you must be pretty dumb in general because it doesnt even require knowledge of bw to see the fact that all losses being 2-3 shows they were almost there and the 3 game win streak shows that theyre pulling the last bits together. I've watched some of Artosis' vods, and basically it seems like they practice a lot for matches and generally over-achieving. They're not participating in individual leagues except for Upmagic, so they devote full time to PL. They're outworking other teams, but I don't know how long they can keep this up. I like this team, and sort of keeping tabs on them. But estro is still quite lacking in the talent(not potential, but current talent) department. And unless their kids blossom, they're still considered bottom tier, IMO. Oh, and estro needs an ace badly.
everyone on every team practices 12 hours a day for their proleague matches. ignore what artosis says, hes biased and rather ignorant on the topic.
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Sea.Really is having a breakout season....he IS Estro's ace and he's getting better and better. Estro is a spirited team that has the potential to do well next season.
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On November 26 2008 02:15 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2008 23:18 baubo wrote:On November 25 2008 17:18 IdrA wrote:On November 25 2008 13:09 SpiralArchitect wrote:
To me having potential does not speak as loud as being in the bottom quarter of the rankings. Their record, to me, says they suck. thats because you know nothing about broodwar and so can only look at statistics instead of the quality of their players. actually you must be pretty dumb in general because it doesnt even require knowledge of bw to see the fact that all losses being 2-3 shows they were almost there and the 3 game win streak shows that theyre pulling the last bits together. I've watched some of Artosis' vods, and basically it seems like they practice a lot for matches and generally over-achieving. They're not participating in individual leagues except for Upmagic, so they devote full time to PL. They're outworking other teams, but I don't know how long they can keep this up. I like this team, and sort of keeping tabs on them. But estro is still quite lacking in the talent(not potential, but current talent) department. And unless their kids blossom, they're still considered bottom tier, IMO. Oh, and estro needs an ace badly. everyone on every team practices 12 hours a day for their proleague matches. ignore what artosis says, hes biased and rather ignorant on the topic.
No they don't. I've never been in Korea, and I don't even speak Korean, but it just makes no logical sense for players to devote all their time to PL when they have individual leagues to worry about.
Players' practice time for PL matches is totally dependent on what their situation is in the starleagues. Hence, ESTRO with no starleague player can devote more effort into matches.
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On November 25 2008 17:18 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2008 13:09 SpiralArchitect wrote:
To me having potential does not speak as loud as being in the bottom quarter of the rankings. Their record, to me, says they suck. thats because you know nothing about broodwar and so can only look at statistics instead of the quality of their players. actually you must be pretty dumb in general because it doesnt even require knowledge of bw to see the fact that all losses being 2-3 shows they were almost there and the 3 game win streak shows that theyre pulling the last bits together.
OK stop telling me they have potential, I know that and have admitted it already. Yes they are getting better, yes Sangho and Really have a chance of becoming the ace player they need and yes they are better than they were. But for the love of god they are still in the bottom quarter of the rankings and havent been playing amazingly well either. They arent a good team yet, they are on their way to being one but not yet. "almost there" and "pulling the last bits together" means they will be good eventually but at this point I still consider them sub par and therefore deserving of the term, suck.
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in other stats news,  Stats is awesome
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/pachi/banner/SPL_080930.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/SpiralArchitect/Pl_stats_team.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/SpiralArchitect/KHANLOVE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/SpiralArchitect/Pl_stats_ace.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/SpiralArchitect/Savior.jpg)
