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United States97274 Posts
On April 12 2013 09:36 njoe wrote:
Demuslim should be on that list and Idra should not.
It was already explained that Demuslim had to be compared to the 8 non north/south american player spots so idra didnt "take his place" nor did any other players from the americas
+ Show Spoiler +(T)Ryung
(P)HerO
(P)viOLet
(T)Polt
(Z)mOOnGLaDe
(Z)Sen
(Z)NesTea
(Z)Snute
sure I think he is better than some of the players that were invited from the americas but it doesn't work that way
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All I have to say is I was looking forward to watching Demuslim compete in WCS NA. And this is a big let down.
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On April 12 2013 07:46 Bumblebee wrote:Alright, this is going to be on page 30 or something but I hope some people will really see it because there are so many weird things being thrown around in here... The way the invites have worked for North America is like this: There are 24 invitations total. 16 of those invites were supposed to be going to American players (this includes Mexico, South America, etc.) and those are the following: + Show Spoiler +1. KiLLeR
2. Scarlett
3. IdrA
4. Suppy
5. Fenix
6. ViBE
7. HuK
8. Illusion
9. Major
10. State
11. Goswser
12. Hellokitty
13. Minigun
14. theognis
15. Capoch
16. Maker The remaining 8 invitations were given to non-American players (Korea, Europe, etc.). Those are these: + Show Spoiler +17. Ryung
18. HerO
19. viOLet
20. Polt
21. mOOnGLaDe
22. Sen
23. NesTea
24. Snute These 2 categories people were done seperately and even if you're residing in North America you are not a North American player. A controversial one is that people are giving MLG a lot of flack for having invited Capoch, Maker and a few others instead of DeMusliM but it's completely irrelevant based on how the system works. DeMusliM does not belong in that category, but he belongs between the last 8 invitation spots. The non-American invites are 5 Koreans, 2 SEA people (TW and Australia) and 1 European. It's very clear that regions have been a factor as well as skill. I don't think the invitation is supposed to be stating that mOOnGLaDe is better than all the other contenders there were, but they were trying to distribute it to all regions so they wouldn't just invite 8 Koreans. What you can discuss is whether or not there should have been a different distribution and this is where a player like DeMusliM comes to mind for me. I could see it making sense removing a Korean invite (which in this case probably would have been Ryung) and given one more to Europe (DeMusliM or Stephano, but I assume Stephano would have gotten it if he had wanted it but he chose WCS EU).
The NA seeds are still questionable, there are better people to invite (results and/or popularity), but a mood point since nothing will change
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No Demuslim and qxc in NA is an epic fail. Especially for Demu.
The lack of logic in not inviting Demu is astounding. Oh well 
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On April 12 2013 06:53 Glon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 01:47 Hasuu wrote:
It really dissapoints me to not see up and coming top NA players like Quanitc Glon on that list. Instead Korean pro gamers? In NA? It befundles me that Hellokitty/Capoch got in.... overall the entire process disgusts me. But it's OK - I now have to do a 256 open man bracket versus a horde of koreans. I'd rather have a chance with a slap in the face than not have one at all.
i remember shitting on your every game we played on ladder and custom games, please don't think you're actually better than me.
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It is actually mind blowing how dumb some of the SC2 community is.
This will be the biggest tournament(s) of the year with the most viewers. Guess what? Pro korean players bring viewership. I wonder how many people watched WCS NA 2012 compared to the recent MLG which reached 130,000 live viewers. Why? Because it had Life, Innovation and Flash. Therefore, WCS KR, WCS NA and WCS EU 2013 will all be extremely highly viewed tournaments independently (and thus imagine the end of the year at Blizzcon). People keep saying 'wow WCS EU 2012 was so amazing and it had no Koreans', yes that's true but it was the ONLY foreigner tournament that even closely matched the viewership of other tournaments with Koreans. And this year, WCS EU is pretty much exactly the same with the ADDITION of MMA, MC and MVP... what's not to like?
I'm so sick of these apologies to shit USA players who whine because they don't have the balls to have the same strict practice regime that KeSPa Koreans employ which obviously work.
In addition, Total Biscuit's soundcloud file which was posted previously was absolutely non sensical and self contradictory. I agree that Blizzard didn't give the teams enough notice, but he went on a rant about how last year's WCS was shit in regards to grassroot tournaments that had no viewers - then saying this one should be region locked. Subsequently he then tried to justify why he was sending his entire Korean team to the USA... lol.... This protocol of no region lock is going to get Axiom the exposure it needs. One of the most watched tournaments of the year with his roster most likely dominating the rest of the player pool, and you're complaining TB? This will get you more exposure than you've ever experienced. WCS 2013 is certainly flawed, but it is the beginning of a new era where eSPORTS (yes I say sport, because I believe the best should win, not some dumb system of affirmative action) will have a period of exponential growth. Take a business class.
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Hmmm, seems like they'll be many exciting matches!
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Demuslim said on his stream that MLG pretty much forgot about him. They thought he'd get invited for WCS EU.
He must be pretty pissed.
BTW, will Naniwa play in WCS EU since he got an invite or will he stay in Korea?
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On April 12 2013 16:13 XtreMe_au wrote:
It is actually mind blowing how dumb some of the SC2 community is.
This will be the biggest tournament(s) of the year with the most viewers. Guess what? Pro korean players bring viewership. I wonder how many people watched WCS NA 2012 compared to the recent MLG which reached 130,000 live viewers. Why? Because it had Life, Innovation and Flash. Therefore, WCS KR, WCS NA and WCS EU 2013 will all be extremely highly viewed tournaments independently (and thus imagine the end of the year at Blizzcon). People keep saying 'wow WCS EU 2012 was so amazing and it had no Koreans', yes that's true but it was the ONLY foreigner tournament that even closely matched the viewership of other tournaments with Koreans. And this year, WCS EU is pretty much exactly the same with the ADDITION of MMA, MC and MVP... what's not to like?
I'm so sick of these apologies to shit USA players who whine because they don't have the balls to have the same strict practice regime that KeSPa Koreans employ which obviously work.
In addition, Total Biscuit's soundcloud file which was posted previously was absolutely non sensical and self contradictory. I agree that Blizzard didn't give the teams enough notice, but he went on a rant about how last year's WCS was shit in regards to grassroot tournaments that had no viewers - then saying this one should be region locked. Subsequently he then tried to justify why he was sending his entire Korean team to the USA... lol.... This protocol of no region lock is going to get Axiom the exposure it needs. One of the most watched tournaments of the year with his roster most likely dominating the rest of the player pool, and you're complaining TB? This will get you more exposure than you've ever experienced. WCS 2013 is certainly flawed, but it is the beginning of a new era where eSPORTS (yes I say sport, because I believe the best should win, not some dumb system of affirmative action) will have a period of exponential growth. Take a business class.
100% agree with this.
The anti Korean whiners, who care so much about where players are from and "personality", should just be happy that Kespa teams don't sign up their players, who are not in GSL, to WCS NA and EU. Then after a few seasons there would be only the most skilled players left in the biggest tournament, which should be the case. That is if Blizzard's goal of "Crowning a true global world champion" should have any credit or meaning.
As it is now, winning the GSL/OSL is still much harder than winning the WCS global finals.
It is like winning the UEFA champions league is much harder than winning the FIFA world club cup.
The fact that the NA community is whining over some of the NA player invites, just shows how weak the competition is in NA. Giving a tournament with these players parity with the GSL is just down right wrong and unfair to the many hard working players in Korea.
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On April 12 2013 16:13 XtreMe_au wrote:
It is actually mind blowing how dumb some of the SC2 community is.
This will be the biggest tournament(s) of the year with the most viewers. Guess what? Pro korean players bring viewership. I wonder how many people watched WCS NA 2012 compared to the recent MLG which reached 130,000 live viewers. Why? Because it had Life, Innovation and Flash. Therefore, WCS KR, WCS NA and WCS EU 2013 will all be extremely highly viewed tournaments independently (and thus imagine the end of the year at Blizzcon). People keep saying 'wow WCS EU 2012 was so amazing and it had no Koreans', yes that's true but it was the ONLY foreigner tournament that even closely matched the viewership of other tournaments with Koreans. And this year, WCS EU is pretty much exactly the same with the ADDITION of MMA, MC and MVP... what's not to like?
I'm so sick of these apologies to shit USA players who whine because they don't have the balls to have the same strict practice regime that KeSPa Koreans employ which obviously work.
In addition, Total Biscuit's soundcloud file which was posted previously was absolutely non sensical and self contradictory. I agree that Blizzard didn't give the teams enough notice, but he went on a rant about how last year's WCS was shit in regards to grassroot tournaments that had no viewers - then saying this one should be region locked. Subsequently he then tried to justify why he was sending his entire Korean team to the USA... lol.... This protocol of no region lock is going to get Axiom the exposure it needs. One of the most watched tournaments of the year with his roster most likely dominating the rest of the player pool, and you're complaining TB? This will get you more exposure than you've ever experienced. WCS 2013 is certainly flawed, but it is the beginning of a new era where eSPORTS (yes I say sport, because I believe the best should win, not some dumb system of affirmative action) will have a period of exponential growth. Take a business class.
GL watching a pure korean code s in all 3 regions in 2 years time. I for once wont support it. This makes it impossible for the foreign scene to get decent sponsors and decent teamhouses where they can practice in. Just look at the code a in korean, they do nothing but practice all day long without having to worry about living or food expenses. Its not just about the business model, its about building the scene. And with this business model, it will hurt the foreign scene in the long run.
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On April 12 2013 16:13 XtreMe_au wrote:
It is actually mind blowing how dumb some of the SC2 community is.
This will be the biggest tournament(s) of the year with the most viewers. Guess what? Pro korean players bring viewership. I wonder how many people watched WCS NA 2012 compared to the recent MLG which reached 130,000 live viewers. Why? Because it had Life, Innovation and Flash. Therefore, WCS KR, WCS NA and WCS EU 2013 will all be extremely highly viewed tournaments independently (and thus imagine the end of the year at Blizzcon). People keep saying 'wow WCS EU 2012 was so amazing and it had no Koreans', yes that's true but it was the ONLY foreigner tournament that even closely matched the viewership of other tournaments with Koreans. And this year, WCS EU is pretty much exactly the same with the ADDITION of MMA, MC and MVP... what's not to like?
I'm so sick of these apologies to shit USA players who whine because they don't have the balls to have the same strict practice regime that KeSPa Koreans employ which obviously work.
In addition, Total Biscuit's soundcloud file which was posted previously was absolutely non sensical and self contradictory. I agree that Blizzard didn't give the teams enough notice, but he went on a rant about how last year's WCS was shit in regards to grassroot tournaments that had no viewers - then saying this one should be region locked. Subsequently he then tried to justify why he was sending his entire Korean team to the USA... lol.... This protocol of no region lock is going to get Axiom the exposure it needs. One of the most watched tournaments of the year with his roster most likely dominating the rest of the player pool, and you're complaining TB? This will get you more exposure than you've ever experienced. WCS 2013 is certainly flawed, but it is the beginning of a new era where eSPORTS (yes I say sport, because I believe the best should win, not some dumb system of affirmative action) will have a period of exponential growth. Take a business class.
Nah you're probably just not smart enough to understand the concepts. Quite frankly with terminology like "A NEW ERA OF ESPORTS" you just sound like a Blizzard fanboi.
Feel free to tell me how to run my business though, I'm clearly not successful at it at all.
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On April 12 2013 16:13 XtreMe_au wrote:
It is actually mind blowing how dumb some of the SC2 community is.
This will be the biggest tournament(s) of the year with the most viewers. Guess what? Pro korean players bring viewership. I wonder how many people watched WCS NA 2012 compared to the recent MLG which reached 130,000 live viewers. Why? Because it had Life, Innovation and Flash. Therefore, WCS KR, WCS NA and WCS EU 2013 will all be extremely highly viewed tournaments independently (and thus imagine the end of the year at Blizzcon). People keep saying 'wow WCS EU 2012 was so amazing and it had no Koreans', yes that's true but it was the ONLY foreigner tournament that even closely matched the viewership of other tournaments with Koreans. And this year, WCS EU is pretty much exactly the same with the ADDITION of MMA, MC and MVP... what's not to like?
I'm so sick of these apologies to shit USA players who whine because they don't have the balls to have the same strict practice regime that KeSPa Koreans employ which obviously work.
Yeah. No.
Your entire argument can be countered by pointing at WCS EU, which was the first tournament to make >100.000 concurrent viewers on one stream. Without a single Korean.
Then again, what am I doing here responding to a 5 post user?
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I understand their concept of only 8 seeds being given to non-NA players. I even think that this is a good way to initialize the GSL-look-alike system. It will eventually all sort itself out as soon as the offline part starts increasing, as suddenly all the Koreans will realize that it is not easy money when you have to dedicate to living in a foreign country to be able to participate.
However, I still think Demuslim should have gotten one of the 8 seeds. If their decison was to seed only one European, then yes, I'd say that Demuslim is more deserving than Snute (sorry TL, I'm a fan, but also a realist). While Snute may have had better tournament results than Demuslim, he has been living in NA for a long time now, contributing to the scene a lot (ItG, an awesome stream with commentary etc) and he has been #1 on NA ladder at the time this system was set up. And last year, this was almost all that counted, so it is a bit weird to not regard it at all this year.
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Where is DeMuslim on the invite list, seriously?
Second off, WHAT THE #%*@ is with the Nazi moderation around here? I opened a thread asking this very question (Where is DeMuslim in the invite list), and within 60 seconds I swear some mod closed it, says "talk about it in one of the WCS threads"... as if something this big on people's minds can't have its own thread? Is that kind of moderation how stuff happens around here? Why the hell would I want to contribute to a community like that?
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Katowice25012 Posts
Feel free to take it up in website feedback but this is far from the place to discuss the "nazi moderation", friend.
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You totally missed TotalBiscuit's point, if I understood it correctly he LIKED the WCS NA what he did not like was the WCS Finals which was boring and had shitty production which I agreed with.
People love to bash NA but just have a reminder of the old WCS NA, you saying this wouldn't be a legit tourney today?
Top 4 was Scarlett, Vibe, Idra and Major and also featured Illusion, Ostojiy (who got snubbed) HelloKitty, TT1, Huk, Illusion, theognis, dde, Gosuuser and Suppy.
If the tournament was like this today well, I'm not saying it would get 100K viewers but it looks really competitive on paper to me. People may tune in for fan favorites. QXC is not in this year but he wasn't in last year so it kinda makes sense to me, I feel like he has an outside shot to get one of those 8 spots if lucks on his side.
(Luckily we appear to have most of the original cast but honestly though, Scarlett would likely win again with a lack of Koreans)
I must admit... I may have overreacted a tad. Since they only inviting maybe 16 at most non NA players it does seem reasonable to allow 16 to keep viewer numbers high. I was thinking it was going to be purely skill based and with hardly any NA players. Unfortunately though this is easily enough to take top 8 spots =/ The first few rounds will be fun though as a foreigner fan.
European league is incredibly Euro-centric its kinda funny actually. They totally made out like bandits, Koreans gunned for NA and there isn't even a foreigner contingent in WCS Korea at all. The open brackets are where things get really interesting IMO if EU gets flooded with Koreans in one way it could topple them. If EU floods NA we could see a EU winner and a KR winner of EU. Oh, Blizzard...
8 of the right Korean could make life hell for EU, life already kinda sucks for NA so it doesn't change it too much. I am crossing my fingers Korean gets scared of the look of NA and does not gun for NA and tries EU that was Scarlett has a great chance.
Go Scarlett!
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On April 12 2013 15:57 hellokittySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 06:53 Glon wrote:On April 12 2013 01:47 Hasuu wrote:
It really dissapoints me to not see up and coming top NA players like Quanitc Glon on that list. Instead Korean pro gamers? In NA? It befundles me that Hellokitty/Capoch got in.... overall the entire process disgusts me. But it's OK - I now have to do a 256 open man bracket versus a horde of koreans. I'd rather have a chance with a slap in the face than not have one at all. i remember shitting on your every game we played on ladder and custom games, please don't think you're actually better than me.
I realize this - you're by far better than me. I can't beat you - your strategies are fool proof and micro/macro/multitask completely outshine me in every game we play.
Getting back to reality, why you were chosen over Demuslim is still baffling... not even going to use self as an example since if you purely go by MLG results I only have a top 32 / 2 top 48s, so understandable. Ranking wise. Using results from a completely different game that are over a year old.
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On April 13 2013 13:09 Glon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 15:57 hellokittySC2 wrote:On April 12 2013 06:53 Glon wrote:On April 12 2013 01:47 Hasuu wrote:
It really dissapoints me to not see up and coming top NA players like Quanitc Glon on that list. Instead Korean pro gamers? In NA? It befundles me that Hellokitty/Capoch got in.... overall the entire process disgusts me. But it's OK - I now have to do a 256 open man bracket versus a horde of koreans. I'd rather have a chance with a slap in the face than not have one at all. i remember shitting on your every game we played on ladder and custom games, please don't think you're actually better than me. I realize this - you're by far better than me. I can't beat you - your strategies are fool proof and micro/macro/multitask completely outshine me in every game we play. Getting back to reality, why you were chosen over Demuslim is still baffling... not even going to use self as an example since if you purely go by MLG results I only have a top 32 / 2 top 48s, so understandable. Ranking wise. Using results from a completely different game that are over a year old.
Well, maybe because Demuslim is British and should be compared with the 8 non NA invites and not the 16 NA invtes?
I think the main fault of MLG (and ESL) is that they didn't make the criteria of their ranking of players public. It makes you suspect that there might not have been an objective ranking at all. They could have avoided all the speculation by being more transparent about it all.
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On April 13 2013 19:36 Kimi2108 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 13:09 Glon wrote:On April 12 2013 15:57 hellokittySC2 wrote:On April 12 2013 06:53 Glon wrote:On April 12 2013 01:47 Hasuu wrote:
It really dissapoints me to not see up and coming top NA players like Quanitc Glon on that list. Instead Korean pro gamers? In NA? It befundles me that Hellokitty/Capoch got in.... overall the entire process disgusts me. But it's OK - I now have to do a 256 open man bracket versus a horde of koreans. I'd rather have a chance with a slap in the face than not have one at all. i remember shitting on your every game we played on ladder and custom games, please don't think you're actually better than me. I realize this - you're by far better than me. I can't beat you - your strategies are fool proof and micro/macro/multitask completely outshine me in every game we play. Getting back to reality, why you were chosen over Demuslim is still baffling... not even going to use self as an example since if you purely go by MLG results I only have a top 32 / 2 top 48s, so understandable. Ranking wise. Using results from a completely different game that are over a year old. Well, maybe because Demuslim is British and should be compared with the 8 non NA invites and not the 16 NA invtes? I think the main fault of MLG (and ESL) is that they didn't make the criteria of their ranking of players public. It makes you suspect that there might not have been an objective ranking at all. They could have avoided all the speculation by being more transparent about it all.
OR that they're using results that are from a COMPLETELY different game and that are over a year old... that's kind of important too...
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EPT
