Today Dreamhack announced their 2012 circuits, It will be an international circuit consisting of 4 circuit events and 1 grand finals at the end of the year at Dreamhack Winter. The events will be in the same order as in last year, starting off with Dreamhack Stockholm, followed by Dreamhack Summer and then Dreamhack Valencia. The new addition this year will be the Bucharest stop in October.
It also seems that Dreamhack Stockholm dates will be coliding with MLG Spring Arena, although MLG Winter Arena still managed to be succesful when it was held at the same time as Assembly, Dreamhack is definately an event of higher caliber and Dreamhack Stockholm was one of the most praised events last year. It is left to see how the two organizers will be effected by this collission.
DreamHack Open – Stops: DreamHack Open: Stockholm – April 21-22 DreamHack Open: Summer – June 16-19 DreamHack Open: Valencia – September 21-23 DreamHack Open: Bucharest – October 27-28
DreamHack Open – Grand Finals: DreamHack Open: Winter – November 22-25
On March 03 2012 05:49 towel wrote: i see a collision with mlg here
I beleive that it's a 6 hour difference between NY (UTC-5) and Stolkholm (UTC+1). I could be wrong here (Not always good at placing Euro cities in their proper time zones), but while they will be on the same day it's entirely possible they will not overlap time wise (Assembley and MLG Arena 1 for example didn't really overlap too heavily.)
If anything we may be getting glorious full days of Starcraft II action for a whole weekend. Especially if there is any sembalance of cooperation between the two events. While I would understand if there wasn't, it seems that running the tournaments at decent local times for each event will cause there to be not a whole lot of time where both events are live and counterprogramming/competeing with each other.
You see a collision, I see an opprotunity to watch starcraft from the second I wake up until I assume the keyboard face sleep position.
On March 03 2012 05:51 Xacez wrote: No games announced with the announcement, hopefully the non-major DreamHack events this year will feature more than one game.
This is true. Although It's highly likely that Starcraft 2 will be featured on the circuit, it will be pretty interesting to see which MOBA game they will pick and if they'll keep supporting CS 1.6.
Assembly was held during the day mostly for EU times, iirc Dreamhack often goes late into the EU night. MLG started in late evening for EU times, so there could be some schedule overlapping but not for a huge amount of time. The end of Dreamhack days may overrun with the beginning of MLG days.
Hopefully they will avoid each others time schedules completely but if it happens then so be it. I'll still try to watch both at once.
On March 03 2012 06:00 darkcloud8282 wrote: Pay per view?
Not likely, especially with the highly critical article Hellspawn from rakaka wrote about MLG PPV model (Hellspawn works for Dreamhack). And Dreamhack has always had free full HD streams.
It will probably split the same as mlg did. All of the top foreniers, barring stephano who will never leave europe and polt who likes europe as well, will go to mlg with all the top koreans.
Who knows really though very werid that they're conflicting with each other didn't they talk about this with each other before announced the dates? be worrying if they started fighting with each other but I think mlg will win it.
Sorry if my post seems a little inflammatory I mean that mlg will get anyone they want beacuse they'll pay the players way to the event. Before the players decide where to go thats got to be something big for them.
Dreamhack stockholm was so awesome last year, me and two mates yelled "special tactics" in the crowd when 2gd was interviewing Whitera, best time ever ^^ Not even a slightest doubt about which event I will watch between this and mlg, dreamhack is just the bomb in terms of eSport events )
Does anyone know if Valencia, Stockholm and Bucharest will be the small 8 man invitationals they've been doing or something of a different manner? I assume the Winter and Summer events will be their classic large events while the rest wil be smaller invitational but the event doesn't specify.
If the other ones are in fact just 8-man or so invitationals it doesn't seem like a huge deal that they would be conflicting with MLG Arena.
On March 03 2012 05:49 towel wrote: i see a collision with mlg here
I beleive that it's a 6 hour difference between NY (UTC-5) and Stolkholm (UTC+1). I could be wrong here (Not always good at placing Euro cities in their proper time zones), but while they will be on the same day it's entirely possible they will not overlap time wise (Assembley and MLG Arena 1 for example didn't really overlap too heavily.)
If anything we may be getting glorious full days of Starcraft II action for a whole weekend. Especially if there is any sembalance of cooperation between the two events. While I would understand if there wasn't, it seems that running the tournaments at decent local times for each event will cause there to be not a whole lot of time where both events are live and counterprogramming/competeing with each other.
You see a collision, I see an opprotunity to watch starcraft from the second I wake up until I assume the keyboard face sleep position.
This.
The weekend of Assembly/Winter Arena was amazing. I woke up early in the morning East Coast time, watched Assembly, then had about an hour to go get food before Winter Arena started. Winter Arena ended for the day just as GSTL started, and as GSTL was ending KSL was starting, as was Assembly again, and then Winter Arena started back up.
I didn't have time to catch all the matches, but it was pretty awesome to have them on all day.
On March 03 2012 05:49 towel wrote: i see a collision with mlg here
I beleive that it's a 6 hour difference between NY (UTC-5) and Stolkholm (UTC+1). I could be wrong here (Not always good at placing Euro cities in their proper time zones), but while they will be on the same day it's entirely possible they will not overlap time wise (Assembley and MLG Arena 1 for example didn't really overlap too heavily.)
If anything we may be getting glorious full days of Starcraft II action for a whole weekend. Especially if there is any sembalance of cooperation between the two events. While I would understand if there wasn't, it seems that running the tournaments at decent local times for each event will cause there to be not a whole lot of time where both events are live and counterprogramming/competeing with each other.
You see a collision, I see an opprotunity to watch starcraft from the second I wake up until I assume the keyboard face sleep position.
Erm.. Even though they don't collide timewise, they are definetely colliding in every other way. You might be able to watch SC2 16 hours a day, very few others do. This will undoubtubly affect the organizations.
On March 03 2012 06:12 MountainGoat wrote: Does anyone know if Valencia, Stockholm and Bucharest will be the small 8 man invitationals they've been doing or something of a different manner? I assume the Winter and Summer events will be their classic large events while the rest wil be smaller invitational but the event doesn't specify.
If the other ones are in fact just 8-man or so invitationals it doesn't seem like a huge deal that they would be conflicting with MLG Arena.
Open to everyone as far as I understand from the statement from dreahacks own website:
All events, including DreamHack Summer and Winter, will be be under the DreamHack Open-brand, our new and more improved eSports format, for both professionals and amateurs
Sad to see this clashing with MLG, but Stockholm Invitational was one of my absolute favorite events last year. Glad to see DH expanding their circuit this year.
I'd like to point out that this is the third time in the latest 7 months that an MLG event collides with an another major event, could be just bad luck or just terrible communication from their side.
On March 03 2012 05:51 Xacez wrote: No games announced with the announcement, hopefully the non-major DreamHack events this year will feature more than one game.
This is true. Although It's highly likely that Starcraft 2 will be featured on the circuit, it will be pretty interesting to see which MOBA game they will pick and if they'll keep supporting CS 1.6.
I am guessing it will be DotA2. The LoL scene lacks a really good Swedish team to be able to compete with the best, for DotA2 the situation is quite different. And hopefully they will not put CS 1.6 in the dumb and leave it to rot, 1.6 to DreamHack is similar to Halo for MLG.
On March 03 2012 06:05 Sermokala wrote: It will probably split the same as mlg did. All of the top foreniers, barring stephano who will never leave europe and polt who likes europe as well, will go to mlg with all the top koreans.
Who knows really though very werid that they're conflicting with each other didn't they talk about this with each other before announced the dates?
Stephano has left Europe many times, IPL3 and 4, MLG Orlando, and Korea for blizzcup.
Interesting to see Bucharest added, looking forward to seeing more Eastern EU players
On March 03 2012 06:16 Eee wrote: I'd like to point out that this is the third time in the latest 7 months that an MLG event collides with an another major event, could be just bad luck or just terrible communication from their side.
communication involves 2 people. doesn't mean that mlg is always the one at fault. we don't know the internal politics between the organizers of the events.
On March 03 2012 06:16 Eee wrote: I'd like to point out that this is the third time in the latest 7 months that an MLG event collides with an another major event, could be just bad luck or just terrible communication from their side.
communication involves 2 people. doesn't mean that mlg is always the one at fault. we don't know the internal politics between the organizers of the events.
That's why I said bad luck, but MLG is the recurring organizer in this scenario, not IEM, Assembly or DH. Either way It's very unfortunate, I hope all organizers try to get their act together and get a lot better at co-operating with each other.
On March 03 2012 06:16 Eee wrote: I'd like to point out that this is the third time in the latest 7 months that an MLG event collides with an another major event, could be just bad luck or just terrible communication from their side.
communication involves 2 people. doesn't mean that mlg is always the one at fault. we don't know the internal politics between the organizers of the events.
That's why I said bad luck, but MLG is the recurring organizer in this scenario, not IEM, Assembly or DH. Either way It's very unfortunate, I hope all organizers try to get their act together and get a lot better at co-operating with each other.
Also MLG kept calling the arena a test right up to Sunday. Saying they wouldnt do another one if it failed...
On March 03 2012 06:16 Eee wrote: I'd like to point out that this is the third time in the latest 7 months that an MLG event collides with an another major event, could be just bad luck or just terrible communication from their side.
communication involves 2 people. doesn't mean that mlg is always the one at fault. we don't know the internal politics between the organizers of the events.
That's why I said bad luck, but MLG is the recurring organizer in this scenario, not IEM, Assembly or DH. Either way It's very unfortunate, I hope all organizers try to get their act together and get a lot better at co-operating with each other.
Also MLG kept calling the arena a test right up to Sunday. Saying they wouldnt do another one if it failed...
I'd like to believe that they only said that because the wanted to sell ppv passes -.- MLGAdam just implied they've been planning this event for a year so I dont really know.
On March 03 2012 05:49 towel wrote: i see a collision with mlg here
not really.
if MLG is ppv again, few europeans will buy the pass and stay up ungodly hours.
For me it's more annoying with the player collision, that they'll have to choose between the two. Even if you just watch one there will probably be some players missing that wouldn't if the schedule was different.
On March 03 2012 06:16 Eee wrote: I'd like to point out that this is the third time in the latest 7 months that an MLG event collides with an another major event, could be just bad luck or just terrible communication from their side.
communication involves 2 people. doesn't mean that mlg is always the one at fault. we don't know the internal politics between the organizers of the events.
That's why I said bad luck, but MLG is the recurring organizer in this scenario, not IEM, Assembly or DH. Either way It's very unfortunate, I hope all organizers try to get their act together and get a lot better at co-operating with each other.
I remember back in october I think it was it was evo mlg and gsl finals on the same weekend. IEM china was suppose to be then too but they took their chance on a different event. out of anyone I think its mlg that could ajust easiest but with all the bad blood between dreamhack and mlg I doubt that either will want to play nice with each other.
if everything goes on whats announced mlg should be running 11 events I'm sure that collisions will be happening a lot.
Didn't see that one coming at all. I do like it though. I'm really keen on going to the winter finals if they will be in Kinnarps Arena again(the hockey arena).
On March 03 2012 05:49 towel wrote: i see a collision with mlg here
I beleive that it's a 6 hour difference between NY (UTC-5) and Stolkholm (UTC+1). I could be wrong here (Not always good at placing Euro cities in their proper time zones), but while they will be on the same day it's entirely possible they will not overlap time wise (Assembley and MLG Arena 1 for example didn't really overlap too heavily.)
If anything we may be getting glorious full days of Starcraft II action for a whole weekend. Especially if there is any sembalance of cooperation between the two events. While I would understand if there wasn't, it seems that running the tournaments at decent local times for each event will cause there to be not a whole lot of time where both events are live and counterprogramming/competeing with each other.
You see a collision, I see an opprotunity to watch starcraft from the second I wake up until I assume the keyboard face sleep position.
Erm.. Even though they don't collide timewise, they are definetely colliding in every other way. You might be able to watch SC2 16 hours a day, very few others do. This will undoubtubly affect the organizations.
Okay, the watching 16 hours a day nonwithstanding, where else is this a problem? Assembley/MLG proved we have an ample playerbase to run two tournaments on the same weekend, and have exciting matches for both tournaments. Teams will have to decide how to split their players, but with MLGs invite structure it probably won't be as big of a deal (qualify for that and go there since it's all expenses paid, otherwise team sends you to dreamhack.) We're likely to see more EU players @ Dreamhack, and more NA/KR at MLG.
I guess what I am asking is if you could elaborate a bit on how it will impact the organizations.
*EDIT -- to be clear this is a legitamate question, I'd like to explore how things like this impact the scene overall.
While it seems like a schedule collision, it really isnt due to time zones. Maybe like the last ~2h of DH will collide with the first 2h of MLG, but other than that it really shouldnt be much of an issue.
Please note that there will be TWO spring arenas so hopefully those can compete in both events! Super excited to see 5 Dreamhacks this year. Hopefully all five will include SC2 competitions.
On March 03 2012 07:09 lowreezy08 wrote: sick and tired of seeing tournaments collide, it's quite pathetic actually, how noone can communicate with each other.
It's not as bad as it could be, as the PPV viewership for MLG Arenas are not very high, and the time zones minimize the duration of overlap
I can't really say enough how unfortunate it is that these events keep clashing with each other. The least you guys can do is try to communicate with each other and try to find solutions for it.
On March 03 2012 06:10 pharena wrote: With e-sport getting bigger we really need some forum to avoid these scheduling conflicts
And there are ... ? Time zones etc.. Or you are talking about players ? , they can chose what event they wanna go. I dont know how you , but im dont wanna see same players in every event. There was a time.. MC , IDRA , Select , White-ra and many more was in every tournament , yes i like this players , but i wanna see other's to.
On March 03 2012 07:09 lowreezy08 wrote: sick and tired of seeing tournaments collide, it's quite pathetic actually, how noone can communicate with each other.
It's not as bad as it could be, as the PPV viewership for MLG Arenas are not very high, and the time zones minimize the duration of overlap
I don't think he was referring to the actual viewing hours. I think the point is that no matter how big the difference is in broadcast time/time zones it still the same players you want to get for your event. We want the best players at every event! We dont want to force them to make a choice
To be honest a lot of players have mentioned getting burnt out due to attending a high number of tournaments.
So a positive could be that not having these tournaments a weekend after each other, the players that attend each respective tournament will be able to perform their all, rather than playing from lack of practice/exhaustion. Especially since it is only a couple of weeks after IPL4 in Vegas.
I know this might not be a popular opinion (we might not get to see the most high stardom matches 2 weeks in a row) but I think it's definitely a positive for the players and in turn, the fans.
On March 03 2012 06:10 pharena wrote: With e-sport getting bigger we really need some forum to avoid these scheduling conflicts
And there are ... ? Time zones etc.. Or you are talking about players ? , they can chose what event they wanna go. I dont know how you , but im dont wanna see same players in every event. There was a time.. MC , IDRA , Select , White-ra and many more was in every tournament , yes i like this players , but i wanna see other's to.
Well yes players can choose but how does it look to a organization when players turn down your event when you invite them cause they rather play a other tournament? Would you invite them the next time? I wouldn't tbh, so i imagine it's not easy for players to make choices like that.
Big events like this should never take place at the same days imo, you put players in though spot and your exaggerating a sports with a relative small audience. It's just not smart to do for so many reasons.
On March 03 2012 07:28 Bumblebee wrote: I can't really say enough how unfortunate it is that these events keep clashing with each other. The least you guys can do is try to communicate with each other and try to find solutions for it.
Are players really interested in going to all event anyway? HuK has complained about travelling numerous times at least. I mean, if you went to all MLG/DH/IPL/NASL/ASUG ROG/IEM/HSC and GSL on top of that you wouldnt be doing much else than travelling.
man wth.. its not like theres a billion big foreign events out there, MLG and DH are THE two biggest tournaments, how can they not manage to be at a different date?
Doesn't strike me as super surprising that that events end up overlapping now and then (it's unfortunate, but the time zone difference makes it manageable as a viewer). Say MLG and Dreamhack separately sat down at around the same time and each figured "okay, we need 6 weeks or something like that to run all of our online qualifiers, and we want the live event to happen shortly after that", that leaves maybe a 2 or 3 week range where they want to have the live event; the odds that conflicts happen is already pretty high, and factor into that the apparent lack of communication between the organizations and I'm not surprised at all that this happens halfway regularly.
Anyway, even if they were, say, one weekend after another, it's not like you'd be getting tons of Koreans willing to fly to NYC, back to Korea, and then to Europe the next weekend and back again, so the odds that we as viewers are missing out on DRG or whoever playing two big events aren't that great.
On March 03 2012 07:05 battyone wrote: Okay, the watching 16 hours a day nonwithstanding, where else is this a problem? Assembley/MLG proved we have an ample playerbase to run two tournaments on the same weekend, and have exciting matches for both tournaments. Teams will have to decide how to split their players, but with MLGs invite structure it probably won't be as big of a deal (qualify for that and go there since it's all expenses paid, otherwise team sends you to dreamhack.) We're likely to see more EU players @ Dreamhack, and more NA/KR at MLG.
I guess what I am asking is if you could elaborate a bit on how it will impact the organizations.
*EDIT -- to be clear this is a legitamate question, I'd like to explore how things like this impact the scene overall.
Basicly, both events will have significantly lower viewerships than if they had not collided. We're talking about the two biggest esports organizers except for GSL in SC2 going head-to-head. This is not the same as what we had last weekend. Dreamhack is probably gonna draw much more viewers from MLG than Assembly did. Also, the hardcore fans of MLG who still want to pay for the arena event surely would have tuned in to Dreamhack were it not in the same weekend.
For the last arena they made an EU/NA/KR qual, so I think we're gonna have just as many EU representatives at MLG, but yeah in Dreamhack there will prolly be a lot of Europeans.
As Sundance said, most Esports organizers are barely getting by atm, so putting multiple huge events at the same weekend when you only do about 5-10 events a year is beyond sloppy. If Dreamhack still goes for the free HD quality stream method, they rely on high ratings, and that's just not gonna happen when a heavy-hitter like MLG has an event as well.
People are gonna have to make a choice. If they buy the MLG arena pass, they will surely have that as their main focus. People who won't pay for MLG will naturally choose Dreamhack, and I'm intrigued to see if people still support MLG in the way they did last weekend, as Dreamhack makes fantastic events.
On March 03 2012 06:16 Eee wrote: I'd like to point out that this is the third time in the latest 7 months that an MLG event collides with an another major event, could be just bad luck or just terrible communication from their side.
MLG has stated that they have attempted to talk to the other events (IE Dreamhack, IEM, Assembly, IPL, NASL, GSL, gaming conventions, excetera) I can imagine some events have their sites booked well in advance and companies like MLG that are creating new events all the time lose. I do see MLG becoming the most presigious SC2 tournament to participate on the globe for these reasons.
1. They are willing to pay for all of your flight/hotel/transportation 2. Top 8 in Regional open online qualifiers gets #1 and seeded into Arena 3. Top 16 in Arena gets #1 and seeded into pool play for offline LAN. pool play = better player treatment 4. Top 8 in offline LAN gets #1 for next Arena, skips online qualifier, and gets seeded into the Arena 5. Open bracket at the offline event
On March 03 2012 05:49 towel wrote: i see a collision with mlg here
I beleive that it's a 6 hour difference between NY (UTC-5) and Stolkholm (UTC+1). I could be wrong here (Not always good at placing Euro cities in their proper time zones), but while they will be on the same day it's entirely possible they will not overlap time wise (Assembley and MLG Arena 1 for example didn't really overlap too heavily.)
If anything we may be getting glorious full days of Starcraft II action for a whole weekend. Especially if there is any sembalance of cooperation between the two events. While I would understand if there wasn't, it seems that running the tournaments at decent local times for each event will cause there to be not a whole lot of time where both events are live and counterprogramming/competeing with each other.
You see a collision, I see an opprotunity to watch starcraft from the second I wake up until I assume the keyboard face sleep position.
Just had to *bump* Battyone's post as I agree completely. That is all.
Dreamhack has a poor reputation for paying stipends so given that MLG is paying 100% of the costs for players then I'm 100% sure Koreans will choose MLG over Dreamhack, which is all that really matters for viewers.
On March 03 2012 06:16 Eee wrote: I'd like to point out that this is the third time in the latest 7 months that an MLG event collides with an another major event, could be just bad luck or just terrible communication from their side.
MLG has stated that they have attempted to talk to the other events (IE Dreamhack, IEM, Assembly, IPL, NASL, GSL, gaming conventions, excetera) I can imagine some events have their sites booked well in advance and companies like MLG that are creating new events all the time lose. I do see MLG becoming the most presigious SC2 tournament to participate on the globe for these reasons.
1. They are willing to pay for all of your flight/hotel/transportation 2. Top 8 in Regional open online qualifiers gets #1 and seeded into Arena 3. Top 16 in Arena gets #1 and seeded into pool play for offline LAN. pool play = better player treatment 4. Top 8 in offline LAN gets #1 for next Arena, skips online qualifier, and gets seeded into the Arena 5. Open bracket at the offline event
These points are pretty stupid, these are standard for most events. all 5 points can be implied for DH and IPL as well...
It's remarkable that MLG yet again fails to communicate with the other organizers. First we had Assembly which MLG was completely unaware of it's existance, then regarding the MLG participants schedule for code A and now DH Stockholm. I'm not saying it's all MLG's fault but it's remarkable that it keeps repeating itself. It CAN'T be that hard to pick up the phone or send an email. It's not like there are that many major organizers to begin with.
If they do it properly open (IE, no invites, either your qualy from a previous event, online, or at the event) that would be awesome, literally the ONLY thing I don't like about DH is that it's 90% invite based (and maybe I don't like that Hellspawn is BM :<), apart from that DH's events are basically the best things ever created by human beings.
MLG overlap sucks though, get your shit together tourney organisers!
On March 03 2012 21:29 Longshank wrote: It's remarkable that MLG yet again fails to communicate with the other organizers. First we had Assembly which MLG was completely unaware of it's existance, then regarding the MLG participants schedule for code A and now DH Stockholm. I'm not saying it's all MLG's fault but it's remarkable that it keeps repeating itself. It CAN'T be that hard to pick up the phone or send an email. It's not like there are that many major organizers to begin with.
Makes you wonder if it really was just a coincidence. What if they were purposefully colliding their Arena with other events to drain all the very top gamer away from them. Suddenly, paying 100.000$ to fly in players has an added bonus of harming the competition...
On March 03 2012 15:49 Seraphone wrote: Dreamhack has a poor reputation for paying stipends so given that MLG is paying 100% of the costs for players then I'm 100% sure Koreans will choose MLG over Dreamhack, which is all that really matters for viewers.
We don't know what is hiding behind the new top secret and improved format They better come up with something to top MLG, or it will be as you say.
It's inevitable that tournaments will collide considering how many tournaments there are nowadays.(IEM, IPL, MLG, Dremhack, Assembly, GSL etc) The good tournaments will stay and the bad ones will disappear.
On March 04 2012 20:24 Alkro wrote: It's inevitable that tournaments will collide considering how many tournaments there are nowadays.(IEM, IPL, MLG, Dremhack, Assembly, GSL etc) The good tournaments will stay and the bad ones will disappear.
Some collision is inevitable but you'd expect the organizers to at least communicate to keep it at a minimum. Unless the collision has a value in itself which I doubt.
I feel like the bigger problem about the date-collision isnt that matches will be streamed at the same time, but rather that players aren't able to attend both tourneys -> less stacked Lineups for both tournaments -> less viewers for both tournaments
On March 03 2012 05:56 battyone wrote: You see a collision, I see an opprotunity to watch starcraft from the second I wake up until I assume the keyboard face sleep position.
You see an opprotunity to watch starcraft from the second you wake up until you assume the keyboard face sleep position, I see 2 tournaments with half their potential because players will have to decide in which to go, and considering the seeds, DreamHack will be once again the "Europeans and maybe 3-4 codeA players" type of tournament.
On March 03 2012 10:59 dignitasNewmaN wrote: Funny how everyone assume Starcraft 2 will be played, they havent announced games yet..
I think it's even more funny that you write it out like that, shows how clueless you are. Not having StarCraft 2 would be murder publicity/viewer wise
How can you be so sure? LoL got alot more viewers than Sc2, and Dota2 is getting released soon which Hellspawn and greykarn is extremely positive to on twitter.
EPT
) attended Dreamhack Summer and Winter, i am content. 
