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On December 13 2011 23:51 Keone wrote:SPOILERS for Group B: Regarding your predictions... + Show Spoiler +Group B Predictions: NesTea <Daybreak> MMA Winner: MMA Real Winner: MMA Comments: MMA TvZ showing whats up. Leenock <Bel'Shir Beach> NaNiwa Winner: Leenock Real Winner: Leenock Comments: Leenock is a monster. WHAT AN AMAZING GAME!!!! NesTea <Crossfire SE> Polt Winner: Nestea Real Winner: Polt Comments: Nestea is just sinking lower and lower. MMA <Dual Sight> Leenock Winner: MMA Real Winner: MMA Comments: Boxer's son at TvZ? What did you expect? Incredible game nonetheless. NaNiwa <Tal'Darim Altar> Polt Winner: Polt Real Winner: Polt Comments: Polt is DAMN good at his timings. I'm sure Naniwa fans hate Polt for his playstyle, because Naniwa had this game won. Leenock <Antiga Shipyard> NesTea Winner: Nestea Real Winner: Leenock Comments: Leenock is a monster. DAT MICRO NaNiwa <Calm Before the Storm> MMA Winner: Naniwa Real Winner: MMA Comments: SlayerS Terran made good decisions but horrible slipups. Naniwa was both lucky and unfortunate here. Leenock <Shakuras Plateau> Polt Winner: Leenock Real Winner: Leenock Comments: Leenock is a monster. NaNiwa <Antiga Shipyard> NesTea Winner: Naniwa Real(?) Winner: NesTea Comments: lol. MMA <Bel'Shir Beach> Polt Winner: Polt Real Winner: Polt Comments: Polt seems to have MMA's number, though MMA does finally kill Polt in the tiebreaker. FINAL SCORE: 6/9 Not bad! Over 50%! Though betting on MMA TvZ is autowin. And Polt is destroying everyone's expectations.
And Polt is destroying everyone's expectations.
That's right 
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Too bad Stephano didn't advance -_-
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in the top of the predictions the mma link brings you to mvp oO
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I am astonished at HerO, and pretty happy with Stephano, however i don't really like the write-up by waxangel 
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Much has been said about the build MVP used against Stephano. I'm going to add a couple observations, because it seems as there are some misconceptions both about MVP's build and Stephano's builds on Shakuras:
1. MVP's build is on KR ladder (no surprise there) and in fact Stephano faced it more than once while laddering in KR. He lost to it at least once, but was also able to beat it with mass ling. It depends on whether he can get the flank. He didn't have quite enough when MVP pushed and then MVP was half way up his ramp, making a flank impossible. From there it was GG.
2. I've seen probably about 10 (non ladder) games played by Stephano on Shakuras. He generally does not opt for mass ling on shakuras (I repeat -- he does not typically opt for mass melee on shakuras) but instead usually goes a more traditional ling-bling muta. (See his game against Ryung at the GSPA eg). If he had gone lbm, he would have had a baneling nest and been fine, or at least have made things very scary for MVP. If he had gone roaches, he would have likely been fine, and possibly have crushed the push. (Stephano often also goes roach ling.) So MVP got a little "lucky" in the sense that Stephano ended up going the one build (of at least three likely builds) that MVP's build was best designed to destory. (This isn't to say that MVP would have lost the game had Stephano gone roach - ling, but rather only that Stephano would not have died so early.) Stephano's going mass ling in the early - mid game was far from the certainty most people seem to assume that it was and MVP's "genius" meta-gaming really was much more of a gamble than it would at first blush seem.
As an aside, I note that the format of the tournament probably did not benefit Stephano. There probably are 80 hours worth of Stephano's games on the Internet (including both ladder games and tournaments). Since mass-melee isn't that common of a build (although it's gaining popularity in KR), to the extent Stephano wanted to go mass melee, he wouldn't likely have the benefit of a wealth of games to study to discover what MVP did in response to mass melee, whereas there are plenty of games (including many recent ones on Shakuras) where Stephano goes mass melee. Given how adaptive Stephano is, I think he actually would have benefitted from a slightly longer format. That said, however you slice it, Stephano would be a pretty big underdog when facing MVP, although there's no shame in that.
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thx for the awesome article <3
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I <3 getting home from work and reading these write-ups, I never really took a second to comment on how appreciative I + the community should be for these, who ever does em', keep em' comming ty
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On December 14 2011 05:33 The_Darkness wrote:
Much has been said about the build MVP used against Stephano. I'm going to add a couple observations, because it seems as there are some misconceptions both about MVP's build and Stephano's builds on Shakuras:
1. MVP's build is on KR ladder (no surprise there) and in fact Stephano faced it more than once while laddering in KR. He lost to it at least once, but was also able to beat it with mass ling. It depends on whether he can get the flank. He didn't have quite enough when MVP pushed and then MVP was half way up his ramp, making a flank impossible. From there it was GG.
2. I've seen probably about 10 (non ladder) games played by Stephano on Shakuras. He generally does not opt for mass ling on shakuras (I repeat -- he does not typically opt for mass melee on shakuras) but instead usually goes a more traditional ling-bling muta. (See his game against Ryung at the GSPA eg). If he had gone lbm, he would have had a baneling nest and been fine, or at least have made things very scary for MVP. If he had gone roaches, he would have likely been fine, and possibly have crushed the push. (Stephano often also goes roach ling.) So MVP got a little "lucky" in the sense that Stephano ended up going the one build (of at least three likely builds) that MVP's build was best designed to destory. (This isn't to say that MVP would have lost the game had Stephano gone roach - ling, but rather only that Stephano would not have died so early.) Stephano's going mass ling in the early - mid game was far from the certainty most people seem to assume that it was and MVP's "genius" meta-gaming really was much more of a gamble than it would at first blush seem.
As an aside, I note that the format of the tournament probably did not benefit Stephano. There probably are 80 hours worth of Stephano's games on the Internet (including both ladder games and tournaments). Since mass-melee isn't that common of a build (although it's gaining popularity in KR), to the extent Stephano wanted to go mass melee, he wouldn't likely have the benefit of a wealth of games to study to discover what MVP did in response to mass melee, whereas there are plenty of games (including many recent ones on Shakuras) where Stephano goes mass melee. Given how adaptive Stephano is, I think he actually would have benefitted from a slightly longer format. That said, however you slice it, Stephano would be a pretty big underdog when facing MVP, although there's no shame in that.
Thats a very brillaint and acurate analyse of Stephano´s play.
And yea it was all about the surround. On that map with the ramp you just cant get a good surround.
On another note Stephano seem to swtich up his style abit and now practise with some early banelings just to counter that exact push
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Watched Naniwa v Leenock in Group stage and it made me want to kill myself. If he just would've killed the tech! GG but I can't wait for the rematch!
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On December 14 2011 07:13 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:33 The_Darkness wrote:
Much has been said about the build MVP used against Stephano. I'm going to add a couple observations, because it seems as there are some misconceptions both about MVP's build and Stephano's builds on Shakuras:
1. MVP's build is on KR ladder (no surprise there) and in fact Stephano faced it more than once while laddering in KR. He lost to it at least once, but was also able to beat it with mass ling. It depends on whether he can get the flank. He didn't have quite enough when MVP pushed and then MVP was half way up his ramp, making a flank impossible. From there it was GG.
2. I've seen probably about 10 (non ladder) games played by Stephano on Shakuras. He generally does not opt for mass ling on shakuras (I repeat -- he does not typically opt for mass melee on shakuras) but instead usually goes a more traditional ling-bling muta. (See his game against Ryung at the GSPA eg). If he had gone lbm, he would have had a baneling nest and been fine, or at least have made things very scary for MVP. If he had gone roaches, he would have likely been fine, and possibly have crushed the push. (Stephano often also goes roach ling.) So MVP got a little "lucky" in the sense that Stephano ended up going the one build (of at least three likely builds) that MVP's build was best designed to destory. (This isn't to say that MVP would have lost the game had Stephano gone roach - ling, but rather only that Stephano would not have died so early.) Stephano's going mass ling in the early - mid game was far from the certainty most people seem to assume that it was and MVP's "genius" meta-gaming really was much more of a gamble than it would at first blush seem.
As an aside, I note that the format of the tournament probably did not benefit Stephano. There probably are 80 hours worth of Stephano's games on the Internet (including both ladder games and tournaments). Since mass-melee isn't that common of a build (although it's gaining popularity in KR), to the extent Stephano wanted to go mass melee, he wouldn't likely have the benefit of a wealth of games to study to discover what MVP did in response to mass melee, whereas there are plenty of games (including many recent ones on Shakuras) where Stephano goes mass melee. Given how adaptive Stephano is, I think he actually would have benefitted from a slightly longer format. That said, however you slice it, Stephano would be a pretty big underdog when facing MVP, although there's no shame in that.
Thats a very brillaint and acurate analyse of Stephano´s play. And yea it was all about the surround. On that map with the ramp you just cant get a good surround. On another note Stephano seem to swtich up his style abit and now practise with some early banelings just to counter that exact push
Many thanks.
I'm not at all surprised to hear that Stephano already has made adjustments. I've seen him use a variety of builds on ladder v. Terran (and also in tournaments) -- all ling, ling roach, ling-bilng-muta and ling infestor, ling-roach-infestor. A digression: People seem to think that once one person figures out a unit cominbation that counters his TvZ builds they somehow will have "figured out" Stephano, or at least they imply that this is the case. That's ridiculous for several reasons. First, against T, Stephano has used several builds successfully. In terms of his mid-game play, his mass melee is stronger than his ling-bling-muta but both are played at a high level. Before the infestor buff Stephano was stomping everyone in EU on the ladder doing solely ling-bling-muta. Second, even if you bought the argument that Stephano's TvZ is gimmicky and will be "figured out", TvZ is only one of three match ups. Stephano's main early - mid game build in ZvP is as standard as it gets - roach, hydra, corruptor. In fact it's so standard that it was eventually "figured out" and many players stopped using it. Nevertheless, whereas lesser Zergs are continuously stomped using this build, Stephano found a way to make roach-hydra-corruptor work as he transitions to a late game army. (Incidentally, I think the first time I remarked -- "this man is a genius" -- when watching Stephano play was when he stomped Mana(?) at Assembly using RHC despite the fact P was on three bases and had collosi. He was doing something everyone else did, but was doing it way, way better because of superior micro, macro and mechanics. His zvz is also pretty standard. Ling-bling into roach or muta typically. I don't understand how people can think he's going to be "figured out". You can't "figure out" superior mechanics and multitasking, which is why Stephano has one of the highest win rates of anyone in GM on the KR server (which is far more important than ladder points), even though he just started playing on it.
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The marine blue flame hellion 9-10 minute timing is an extremely common build that I have seen a lot of GM players in north america do. Other then that little gripe, great article.
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EPT
