October Revolution - Page 14

On November 16 2011 00:31 bbm wrote:


What if they're just better? My flatmate is just flat out better at games than me. We get a brand new game, and he'll just be better. Whether it's call of duty, chess, gears of war, starcraft, trackmania or forza, he's just better than me. Infuriating. Doesn't matter how much I practice, he's just better. His mind is more attuned to gaming, his reactions better, his multitasking more functinoal, whatever I don't know. But without practicing more he's better than me.

Similarly I remember a guy in my class at school, who, having never played golf before, after 45 minutes was hitting every shot 200 yards at the driving range. I can't do that shit and I've played for hours (not _masses_ of hours, but more than he had).

So then Stephano is some kind of savant who learns twice as much from every game compared to other pros? Or does Huk have a learning disability that makes it so that he has to work twice as hard to improve to the same degree? There's no such thing as "natural ability" when it comes to learned skills.

On November 16 2011 01:11 n0btozz wrote:
Great article, you and WaxAngel are both phenomenal writers, really enjoy it.

However, I want to be "critical" of this article. From a coach´s standpoint, the Korean model is simply better then any other we currently see in the starcraft scene. That is not a myth like you claim in this article. Many scientific articles have been written on training and how to maximize the amount of top pro´s in any sport.

A couple of factors weigh in, for how long you train, how often, with whom, where and under what kind of an instructor. Those are just a few examples. Of course, adding to that is the individual himself. I can have twins, training the exact same way, yet one will get better then the other, you can call it the natural factor. Within that, you have the players "need" for winning, you have his natural talent, you have his passion, and then you have his (some say) gender. And gender matters a lot, because in a competitive environment, men have an advantage, but that´s irrelevant for this article.

Back to training - In the short term of a year or two, the Korean model has already established it´s dominance. No foreigner can claim the success comparable to that of the top Koreans. The Korean training model gives us so many top top top players, compared to any other model. The Korean model, which is a copy of good sport related coaching models, get´s us top level players, the other coaching models, "bashing the NA server" and "not training so much but still a bit" have not shown us resaults even close to those given to us by the Korean model.

To name 2 players outside of the Korean model, that have in 1 month out of the last 12, bashed a couple of Koreans in a tournament and all of a sudden the Korean model isn´t superior to the other models, this is very faulty reasoning. Also, only 1-2 of those tourneys had the top tier Koreans in them, and when there were top tier Koreans, none of them were either NesTea or MVP, which reminds me of their trip to Blizzcon, in this revolutionary month, where MVP and NesTea absolutely roflstomped the top qualified players from the rest of the world, i´m not sure they even broke a sweat.

This article obviously was supposed to breath life into the hope of foreigners being able to dominate in the SC2 scene equally to Koreans, but that is a distant dream simply because the Korean model dominates that of any foreigner model currently employed. The Korean model is mirrored in any top sport training model, the guys playing football with their friends every day, don´t get as good as the guys who play football and/or do football related practice regimes all day with their professional club. However, 1-2 guys might have a real talent in the former group, and being able to play on par with the guys in the latter model, however, they will not reach the same hight as equally talented players who train all day, simply because their training methods are better.

When SC2 has been out for such a short while, we will have some foreigners who are able to come close to the Koreans, the Korean model hasn´t paid off fully, not even close. Right now, with much fewer players playing then play in the rest of the world, we can say out of the top 100 players, probably 60-70% or more of them are Koreans. The model doesn´t make up for individual skill/talent, but that get´s less and less relevant over time as the Korean model produces more good players. What i´m trying to say is, the Korean model produces a lot of really really good players, some of whom become elite simply because of natural talent, not everyone can become elite. We in the foreigner scene have just as many players with the talent to become elite, but our training models don´t get them there, they can like Stephano, become really good even though they don´t practice that much, but Stephano isn´t one to take down the GSL any time soon (sorry Stephano fans). However, had Stephano spent the last year in the Korean model, I am pretty sure NesTea wouldn´t have 90%< win ratio.

This is mirrored in the start of starcraft BW, where Koreans hadn´t gotten as untouchable. We have every reason to learn from that, over time the Korean model not only shapes the top 2-5 players. It will always start to add on one and one who get to that "elite tier" which isn´t reachable just by playing 3 hours a day, or bashing inferior players all day long. In 5 years time, if foreigners don´t start to do what EG did and start pro houses (rather in Europe since the overall quality of top EU players seems to outshine the NA ones pretty hard), the foreigner scene will fall behind rather quickly, and we´ll end up with the same situation as in BW, not a single foreigner who can claim he´s a top 30 player in the world. Let´s not let this October month or this article fool us, in the field of "quality practicing" the Korean model is much closer to how it´s supposed to be then the current foreigner training.

However, just to not only be critical, the part about mentality was great. It most often falls under the persons talents, and can contrary to popular belief be "coached" or taught to players. Hence the players with the mentality of them being champions, usually end up as champions. Good mentality is really important as we all know.. Good players with poor mentality don´t get far in any sport.

----

To add a little to the article, inspire the same sort of hope, I know for a fact that there is still time to make foreigners the top players in Starcraft. If the foreigner teams would get team houses in say, Europe, put up the same model as the Koreans have, the time it would take to surpass them would not be long. Why? Because the player pool in Europe, and therefor the naturally talented players pool of the foreigner servers is so much much much bigger then what Koreans have to play with. The quality of practice on the EU server would get much higher, giving the lower level players (mid/high masters now) a chance to play the worlds best on a regular basis, upping their own skill. This is why so many Koreans are so good, they are always playing the best players and therefor improving faster (playing against better players is a proven training method and considered to be one of the fastest training methods in sports ranging from football to chess). But we can´t do that in 5 years time, then we are too far behind. So I really hope the foreigner teams start to realize there is a lot of money in starcraft, and throwing up team houses and getting the best players in the world together, living and breathing starcraft, is actually going to pay off for them and the foreigner scene very fast.

Foreigners fighting!

/no flame please.

On November 16 2011 01:46 Krogan wrote:
While an interesting article it doesn't change that I don't think Stephano alone disproves anything. Idra has a long history of hardcore playing, spent a lot of time in Korean and was BW pro. It is often joked (and for good reason) that maybe Huk should be considered a Korean and then there is Stephano.

Meko wrote: "It was clear after IPL3, and his subsequent ESWC triumph that either we'd been looking at the foreigner-Korean relationship wrong, or Stephano was one hell of a fluke. "

Personally I think Meko is missing the third (and imo the correct conclusion) that Stephano is just THAT much more talented then either Idra or Huk. Huk is a product of hard work, Idra of talent and experience while Stephano is wonder boy. And there we have what seems to be the biggest taboo in esports, talking about talent. So my conclusion is that Stephano is as good as he is despite how little he plays, despite that he is not on a serious team, despite that he has never been to korea and from where I am sitting I see the greatest sc 1/2 talent we have had outside of korea.

On November 16 2011 00:31 bbm wrote:


What if they're just better? My flatmate is just flat out better at games than me. We get a brand new game, and he'll just be better. Whether it's call of duty, chess, gears of war, starcraft, trackmania or forza, he's just better than me. Infuriating. Doesn't matter how much I practice, he's just better. His mind is more attuned to gaming, his reactions better, his multitasking more functinoal, whatever I don't know. But without practicing more he's better than me.

Similarly I remember a guy in my class at school, who, having never played golf before, after 45 minutes was hitting every shot 200 yards at the driving range. I can't do that shit and I've played for hours (not _masses_ of hours, but more than he had).

On November 15 2011 15:49 NoctisAnima wrote:
i wonder what Stephano thinks of that picture o.o

On November 15 2011 16:09 Qaatar wrote:


This is the only part of the article that I agree with. If practice doesn't make perfect in this game as it does in BW, then I might as well as stop watching. I can only hope that HoTS and LoTV bring more depth, both physical and mental, to this game.