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On October 20 2011 20:23 Talin wrote:
Eh, I have to say that the article about Lucky is way off the mark. First of, I'm not sure what the point is in sugarcoating a player's performance so much. To say that there wasn't anything lucky about his run is simply factually incorrect.
Secondly, It really has nothing to do with personalities, entertainment and star power factor. Plenty of unknown and unpopular players have made deep tournament runs and earned instant admiration and respect of the audience because of how impressive they've played.
Even at IPL3 alone, there is a reason why Inori was better "received" by fans than Lucky. His run was nowhere as deep, but he absolutely dominated HuK and MC by sticking to a macro based PvP style every single game. He took out two of the best and most popular Protoss players in the world that everyone wanted to progress in the tournament, yet I'd say there were fewer negative comments about him than about Lucky and he gained quite a few fans for the play he showed.
This is really ironic. SlayerS Terrans built their fame and notoriety for their economy-devastating abusive TvZ strategies. We seem to have a very short memory if we've already forgiven MMA for his endgame plan of endless marine drops off of two bases, with one marine/tank push up the gut from MLG Columbus or the whole team for hellion/marine/medivac style that utterly dominated MLG Anaheim.
If Lucky hard-counters their strategy, and they keep trying it, shouldn't we be willing to praise him for being smarter than his opponents? Of course it's fine to have a favorite team, but in a situation like this, any ill-feeling against Lucky should be recognized as stemming solely from the fact that he beat a favorite player, not that his strategies were lesser.
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On October 20 2011 21:54 Wren wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 20:23 Talin wrote:
Eh, I have to say that the article about Lucky is way off the mark. First of, I'm not sure what the point is in sugarcoating a player's performance so much. To say that there wasn't anything lucky about his run is simply factually incorrect.
Secondly, It really has nothing to do with personalities, entertainment and star power factor. Plenty of unknown and unpopular players have made deep tournament runs and earned instant admiration and respect of the audience because of how impressive they've played.
Even at IPL3 alone, there is a reason why Inori was better "received" by fans than Lucky. His run was nowhere as deep, but he absolutely dominated HuK and MC by sticking to a macro based PvP style every single game. He took out two of the best and most popular Protoss players in the world that everyone wanted to progress in the tournament, yet I'd say there were fewer negative comments about him than about Lucky and he gained quite a few fans for the play he showed. This is really ironic. SlayerS Terrans built their fame and notoriety for their economy-devastating abusive TvZ strategies. We seem to have a very short memory if we've already forgiven MMA for his endgame plan of endless marine drops off of two bases, with one marine/tank push up the gut from MLG Columbus or the whole team for hellion/marine/medivac style that utterly dominated MLG Anaheim.
What MMA did requires intense multitasking and late game mechanics that not a lot of Terrans right now can do as well even if they try. What's there to forgive? His display of skill was apparent - hence people fell in love with him very early into his career (even when he was just an upstart GSTL Terran with no notable fame or success).
Equivalent to Baneling bombs and straightforward BO wins? Not really.
On October 20 2011 21:54 Wren wrote:
If Lucky hard-counters their strategy, and they keep trying it, shouldn't we be willing to praise him for being smarter than his opponents? Of course it's fine to have a favorite team, but in a situation like this, any ill-feeling against Lucky should be recognized as stemming solely from the fact that he beat a favorite player, not that his strategies were lesser.
I'm willing to give him praise for being smarter than his opponents. I just don't think the quality of being "smarter" (in that specific sneaky/tricky sense of being smarter) is something that can translate to consistent success and produce dominant and skillful play that is expected of high ranking players.
Inori was also smart, but he was also radiating confidence and showed extremely good unit control to take out MC and Huk, winning with strategies that were considered inferior in PvP since forever against top PvPers in the world. His victories had some weight, and they were rewarded by praise.
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I disagree with the criticism of the event being held in a casino. 4 straight days of Starcraft is too much-- crammed in a convention center with nothing else to do would have been terrible. Staying in a hotel/casino where you can go up to your room to take a break, go gamble and grab food, or stop by the bar for a drink was perfect to break up the monotony of watching an entire Starcraft tournament.
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On October 20 2011 22:00 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 21:54 Wren wrote:On October 20 2011 20:23 Talin wrote:
Eh, I have to say that the article about Lucky is way off the mark. First of, I'm not sure what the point is in sugarcoating a player's performance so much. To say that there wasn't anything lucky about his run is simply factually incorrect.
Secondly, It really has nothing to do with personalities, entertainment and star power factor. Plenty of unknown and unpopular players have made deep tournament runs and earned instant admiration and respect of the audience because of how impressive they've played.
Even at IPL3 alone, there is a reason why Inori was better "received" by fans than Lucky. His run was nowhere as deep, but he absolutely dominated HuK and MC by sticking to a macro based PvP style every single game. He took out two of the best and most popular Protoss players in the world that everyone wanted to progress in the tournament, yet I'd say there were fewer negative comments about him than about Lucky and he gained quite a few fans for the play he showed. This is really ironic. SlayerS Terrans built their fame and notoriety for their economy-devastating abusive TvZ strategies. We seem to have a very short memory if we've already forgiven MMA for his endgame plan of endless marine drops off of two bases, with one marine/tank push up the gut from MLG Columbus or the whole team for hellion/marine/medivac style that utterly dominated MLG Anaheim. What MMA did requires intense multitasking and late game mechanics that not a lot of Terrans right now can do as well even if they try. What's there to forgive? His display of skill was apparent - hence people fell in love with him very early into his career (even when he was just an upstart GSTL Terran with no notable fame or success). Equivalent to Baneling bombs and straightforward BO wins? Not really.
The drop play was impressive, absolutely. The same defense does not apply to the Anaheim strategy.
However, we're still talking about bashing a guy for using the SlayerS Terran mindset against SlayerS Terrans, namely beating a strategy by making the game shorter. The roach play Lucky used in almost every game is like a bunker rush, it only kills you if you're playing unsafely.
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On October 20 2011 22:19 Wren wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 22:00 Talin wrote:On October 20 2011 21:54 Wren wrote:On October 20 2011 20:23 Talin wrote:
Eh, I have to say that the article about Lucky is way off the mark. First of, I'm not sure what the point is in sugarcoating a player's performance so much. To say that there wasn't anything lucky about his run is simply factually incorrect.
Secondly, It really has nothing to do with personalities, entertainment and star power factor. Plenty of unknown and unpopular players have made deep tournament runs and earned instant admiration and respect of the audience because of how impressive they've played.
Even at IPL3 alone, there is a reason why Inori was better "received" by fans than Lucky. His run was nowhere as deep, but he absolutely dominated HuK and MC by sticking to a macro based PvP style every single game. He took out two of the best and most popular Protoss players in the world that everyone wanted to progress in the tournament, yet I'd say there were fewer negative comments about him than about Lucky and he gained quite a few fans for the play he showed. This is really ironic. SlayerS Terrans built their fame and notoriety for their economy-devastating abusive TvZ strategies. We seem to have a very short memory if we've already forgiven MMA for his endgame plan of endless marine drops off of two bases, with one marine/tank push up the gut from MLG Columbus or the whole team for hellion/marine/medivac style that utterly dominated MLG Anaheim. What MMA did requires intense multitasking and late game mechanics that not a lot of Terrans right now can do as well even if they try. What's there to forgive? His display of skill was apparent - hence people fell in love with him very early into his career (even when he was just an upstart GSTL Terran with no notable fame or success). Equivalent to Baneling bombs and straightforward BO wins? Not really. The drop play was impressive, absolutely. The same defense does not apply to the Anaheim strategy. However, we're still talking about bashing a guy for using the SlayerS Terran mindset against SlayerS Terrans, namely beating a strategy by making the game shorter. The roach play Lucky used in almost every game is like a bunker rush, it only kills you if you're playing unsafely.
You're right for that specific case, but Anaheim isn't the only thing MMA has to show for himself. In Lucky's case... well, IPL is pretty much it. His Code S run today ended as expected, and I can't see him making any bubbles in the future either.
Besides, he isn't being "bashed". Nobody is saying he did anything wrong or whatever. People just aren't impressed enough to actively cheer for him, which makes perfect sense imo. Obviously if a player has a way to win, he will take it. However, to get people to really appreciate you as a player, you need to go an extra mile and show high quality games and high level mechanics.
I was personally more impresed by FruitDealer's IEM run, even though he used some of the wackiest builds imaginable, but they were done in style and with confidence and brutal execution.
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Hey IGN, IPL3 was my favorite tournament so far. I wasn't able to go but I loved the games, appreciated the awesome production, and approve of the difficult-but-fair qualifiers. I believe this was the reason the games were so good.
Don't be discouraged by the relatively low live turnouts. Just don't have it in a casino next time. The audience intersections for casino-style hospitality and competitive SC2 seem small to me.
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As a spectator of the event. I spent most of the first two days in the open bracket area, as there were many great players in the open bracket. Since I was able to be much closer and communicate with many of the pros there I felt this was a good environment to be in rather than in Circus for the pool play since pool play was only for seeding. If pool play mattered as much as MLG did, then I likely would have been at Circus Maximus more. Do not get me wrong though, being in Circus Maximus during the weekend to watch the championship bracket was definitely an awesome experience. Considering it was a Thursday and the attendance, next time maybe you could have just had just open bracket games that day [equivalent Bally's broadcast area], and begin pool play the following day [IMO make sure it matters more].
I personally liked that the event was in a casino. I am biased since I am over 21, but it gave you the opportunity to do much more during off hours. There were many places to eat in the casino and boardwalk. Also, the 24 hour bar in Caesars was great. I was able to meet many pros and personalities there and they had some great specials. IPL and sponsors treated everyone great as well; may I remind you that Twitch TV party Sunday night where Twitch opened a ~ $3000+ tab so everyone can get drinks? Awesome.
And last but not least, to whoever played. TL Mafia! I remember you coming in a few times on Friday night Waxangel and was like "WTF are you guys doing". lol
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
As far as I can tell, IPL3 was amazing in most ways except for the enormous blunder of holding it in a casino, which seem to be the cause of most of the gripes.
IPL have an extremely strong record of delivering on stuff, so I can only imagine IPL4 to be mindblowing :>
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Excellent write up as always, guys! I especially love the Stephano reference in the title. Hopefully next time, IPL won't be limited by the choice of venue.
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On October 20 2011 22:37 marvellosity wrote:
As far as I can tell, IPL3 was amazing in most ways except for the enormous blunder of holding it in a casino, which seem to be the cause of most of the gripes.
IPL have an extremely strong record of delivering on stuff, so I can only imagine IPL4 to be mindblowing :>
YEA! There's so little for IPL to make better that I am almost sure they will listen to all of this.
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I've got to agree with most of the comments. IPL did a great job. This article was great as well, except for not mentioning Lani and the Beast Crew!
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My review of IPL3
So I went down there extremely excited with 2 other friends and for some reason we decided to stay at Harrah's instead of Caesar's/Ballys. We left Saturday morning and got there around 12:30, 1pm. We went straight to the theater after wandering around aimlessly for about 30 to 45 minutes trying to follow the signs on the ground to the theater. When we finally found it we found out that my printed tickets needed to be exchanged for physical passes, so they sent us to Bally's. We get there and realize that we were at the wrong table. We get our swag bag and then finally find our way to the 6th floor of Bally's and we get our passes. We rush back down to the theater and when we got in we were kind of surprised of the turnout, the auditorium was pretty filled at the front part of the theater but the back end was very sparsely populated. We sat down and watched some games and then we went back to Harrah's to check in etc... We go back to Caesars and watch the rest of Saturday's games and I must admit people were playing ruthlessly, KiWiKaKi's game vs. Stephano was utterly insane and had the whole crowd giving him a standing ovation. I must say that the production value of the event was top notch. We go back to Harrah's to start gambling and i lose $100 in blackjack almost instantly. We then played a poker tourney which I lost pretty early, went to play more blackjack and won 10 bucks, then went to go play at the poker tables. Was up 100 bucks but lost it all at 5am. Went to sleep then woke up the next day and checked out. Then we went back to Caesars and watched the rest of Sunday's games. We were able to move to the front section with ease. We had silver passes but no one said anything to us. We watched the rest of the day but left early to get home to NYC in time for the finals.
All in all, aside from losing all my money gambling, I had a great time. I got to meet a few pro players and talk to them for a little bit which was cool and got a bunch of free stuff from IGN. The venue was a great choice i think, but there would have definitely been a bigger turnout if there was no 21+ age restriction. As I said before the production quality was superb. Hoping for more events at AC! Thanks IGN for an awesome weekend!
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I think the turnout was pretty huge considering over 21 + weekday. You can guarantee that it definately raised the eyebrows of many potential investors/sponsors. Stream numbers were also pretty huge getting over 100k concurrent and maybe even up to 140.
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Excellent writeups. I always look forward to reading these after an event; they always add some nice perspective. Well done.
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The part about Lucky was really sad, mostly because its true..I am happier rooting for the underdog I'm sure other people feel the same way.
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Excellent Write-up now I feel bad for Lucky, reading that made me kind of sad but its the Industry. ESports is certainly a Business and stuff like that comes with that.
Still IPL3 for me was a Great Experience on the Streams.
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Amazing, amazing write-up.
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Thanks for the writeup! :D!
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On October 20 2011 22:23 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 22:19 Wren wrote:On October 20 2011 22:00 Talin wrote:On October 20 2011 21:54 Wren wrote:On October 20 2011 20:23 Talin wrote:
Eh, I have to say that the article about Lucky is way off the mark. First of, I'm not sure what the point is in sugarcoating a player's performance so much. To say that there wasn't anything lucky about his run is simply factually incorrect.
Secondly, It really has nothing to do with personalities, entertainment and star power factor. Plenty of unknown and unpopular players have made deep tournament runs and earned instant admiration and respect of the audience because of how impressive they've played.
Even at IPL3 alone, there is a reason why Inori was better "received" by fans than Lucky. His run was nowhere as deep, but he absolutely dominated HuK and MC by sticking to a macro based PvP style every single game. He took out two of the best and most popular Protoss players in the world that everyone wanted to progress in the tournament, yet I'd say there were fewer negative comments about him than about Lucky and he gained quite a few fans for the play he showed. This is really ironic. SlayerS Terrans built their fame and notoriety for their economy-devastating abusive TvZ strategies. We seem to have a very short memory if we've already forgiven MMA for his endgame plan of endless marine drops off of two bases, with one marine/tank push up the gut from MLG Columbus or the whole team for hellion/marine/medivac style that utterly dominated MLG Anaheim. What MMA did requires intense multitasking and late game mechanics that not a lot of Terrans right now can do as well even if they try. What's there to forgive? His display of skill was apparent - hence people fell in love with him very early into his career (even when he was just an upstart GSTL Terran with no notable fame or success). Equivalent to Baneling bombs and straightforward BO wins? Not really. The drop play was impressive, absolutely. The same defense does not apply to the Anaheim strategy. However, we're still talking about bashing a guy for using the SlayerS Terran mindset against SlayerS Terrans, namely beating a strategy by making the game shorter. The roach play Lucky used in almost every game is like a bunker rush, it only kills you if you're playing unsafely. You're right for that specific case, but Anaheim isn't the only thing MMA has to show for himself. In Lucky's case... well, IPL is pretty much it. His Code S run today ended as expected, and I can't see him making any bubbles in the future either. Besides, he isn't being "bashed". Nobody is saying he did anything wrong or whatever. People just aren't impressed enough to actively cheer for him, which makes perfect sense imo. Obviously if a player has a way to win, he will take it. However, to get people to really appreciate you as a player, you need to go an extra mile and show high quality games and high level mechanics. I was personally more impresed by FruitDealer's IEM run, even though he used some of the wackiest builds imaginable, but they were done in style and with confidence and brutal execution.
An opinion and reasoning that I can absolutely support!
My point is, primarily, that Lucky has nothing to apologize for. His play was smart and effective. We will see with time how clever and durable a player he is. Nobody's ever required to be someone's fan, but it pains me to hear that Lucky was embarrassed for beating the snot out of a lineup of popular players.
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nice article. i am glad the crowd issue was addressed because i was pretty disappointed at this, having gone to MLG columbus (which is a smaller event than IPL3 in a lot of ways) and being part of that very excited crowd.
i am assuming this means haypro is terrible at card games or that he is a shark and waxangel or shindigs is taking a cut
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EPT
