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[NASL] The End is Near

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[NASL] The End is Near

Text bymotbob
Graphics byHawaiianPig
June 7th, 2011 20:24 GMT
[image loading]
banner by HawaiianPig

(Wiki)North American Star League Season 1

NASL Week 9 Preview / Week 8 Recap
by motbob, confusedcrib, JimLloyd, and emythrel


Table of contents

[image loading]


Week 9 Preview

Playoff Scenarios

Game of the Week

Things I Think I Think



Did you miss NASL last week? Perhaps you were watching MLG non-stop and completely forgot about the league? Or maybe you haven't ever watched NASL? Well, that's OK! Last week was kind of lackluster, a week defined by walkovers and five page LR threads. There were some pretty amazing games, to be sure, but it was the least-watched week in NASL's history.

But the time for abstinence from the NASL stream is over. This week is the final week of the NASL regular season, with all of the drama and passion that it entails. A big criticism of the NASL's format was that the perception existed that the games in the regular season "didn't matter." Well, this week, they matter in a way that's very easy to see: the playoffs are coming, and the spots to get in are far from being set in stone.

So join us, the NASL writing team, as we preview what promises to be the best week of NASL yet.




Week Nine: The Games to Watch
by confusedcrib


NASL represents two things to me: interesting macro games, and fun, creative ones. Players like Kiwikaki and Qxc always introduce new, fun, exciting things to try out with your friends that never fail to entertain. Meanwhile players like iNcontroL, Select, and Ret all offer macro games that are possible to recreate in your safe standard play. These types of players offer real learning; in terms of game plans, taking advantage of timings, and general good decision making. Below are the best of both worlds, the games that will entertain, and the games that you will learn from.

Day 1

For Fun: KiwiKaki vs. Vibe

Vibe tends to play a nonstandard ZvP and Kiwikaki tends to play a non standard Starcraft. Vibe is on the forefront of innovation in the ZvP match up, utilizing everything from banelings to nydus worms to break apart his opponent. Vibe’s play is not solid enough to shut down Kiwikaki’s non standard play. Oftentimes, what you’ll notice with KiwiKaki is that you can force him into a standard game through timed builds and aggression. Vibe is not solid and standard enough to force Kiwikaki to go down the standard route, meaning that this series will be incredibly enjoyable.

To Learn from: Artosis vs. TLO

While the majority of people reading this probably think that Artosis is a bad player, I can assure you he is not. The guy is incredibly solid in the way he plays, especially in his thought process. When I watch Artosis play, I can understand why he is doing everything he is doing. He’s not cheesing, he’s not taking risks, and he’s just playing a safe game. This is why he loses a lot to players that do take risks, but in terms of helping yourself develop as a player, Artosis is a great protoss to watch. His opponent TLO, although his openings and late games tend to be quite crazy, his mid game is usually very solid and standard. Whenever I watch TLO play I learn a cool and clever way to get where I want to be in the mid game, very useful if you're getting bored with the match up.

Day 2

For Fun: Qxc vs. DarkForce

Qxc vs. DarkForce is the setup for a very cool TvZ. Qxc has so many openings designed for aggression that there’s no way the series will be boring. Qxc should have a legitimate chance of winning the match with his incredibly creative openings, but DarkForce's mid and late game may be stronger than Qxc's. Either way, expect the game to be full of back and forth aggression.

To Learn From: Incontrol vs. Sjow

iNcontroL is one of the kings of strong standard play, as is Sjow. Both of these players showcase extremely safe and solid styles that should be great for incorporating into your macro play. iNcontrol tends to be very solid in his decision making, showing you great places to hide pylons and when are good timings to poke out with your army. Sjow is very solid in his macro and decision making as well, a great player to learn proper army control and movement from. Both of these players should teach some great timings to poke and prod at your opponent

Day 3

For Fun: Squirtle vs. MoonGlade

Squirtle got famous from his team league performance, demonstrating what was, at the time, revolutionary Protoss play. His cheeses were inventive and his standard play even had non-standard aspects to it (such as having both a robotics and a stargate with only one gateway). MoonGlade is similarly very creative in his play and use of the full zerg arsenal, this game should be very entertaining to watch.

To Learn from: Haypro vs. Naniwa

Despite the fact that our good friend Haypro hasn't gotten very much “star status” as of late, he plays an extremely standard, safe, macro style that is great to learn from. Ever since Naniwa's destruction of the open bracket of MLG he has been hailed as an extremely safe and standard player. Oftentimes, the plays of the more creative players are difficult to emulate, but these two will be showing some great strategies that will be useful in your standard ladder play.

Day 4

For Fun: Catz vs Machine

Oh man am I titillated for this game beyond belief. Catz and Machine both have a lot of well thought out innovation in all of their match ups, and this game should be no different. Another fun part about watching these two duke it out is that when two players are playing creatively, it is often an extremely back and forth series. This should definitively be a fun one to watch

To Learn from: MC vs. Select

Select is one of the best ladder style Terran players out there. He does very well on the ladder and because of that, often plays a super safe yet creative game against his opponent. Every time I watch Select play I learn something about Terran, whether it was a cute tactic, or an awesome macro trick. MC shows a similar mix of standard with creative play in his style; this one should be a great match for learning.

Day 5

For Fun and Learning: Boxer vs. Idra

It’s always a treat to watch Boxer play; he has the best mix of safe and creative play and makes some awesome decisions while playing. And of course Idra needs no introduction, a beastly macro zerg with a beastly attitude in his tight leather gracket. Oh man, I’m getting hot already, this will be a great match to round out the week.

Things to Look for all Week Long:

Will Grubby, Qxc and Painuser get their first wins?

Can Morrow, Select, Squirtle, and Boxer all stay on top of their division? They're all one game away from falling from their top spots.

And as always, can Artosis bring great honor to his family?



Playoff Scenarios
by motbob


The NASL playoff qualification follows a non-intuitive format. First, the top two players in each group advance directly to the NASL finals, a three-day event involving 16 total players. Two players each, from five groups, means that 6 more players need to be chosen in order to fill out the 16 player field.

Five more spots are determined in the following fashion: the top twenty players in NASL (ranked by match record and game differential) who did NOT advance to the finals are placed into the playoffs: five brackets of four players. The winners of each four-player bracket advances to the finals.

The final spot will be filled by the winner of the NASL Open Tournament, to be held at a later date.

So: let's look at who can clinch a finals berth this weekend!

Division 1

1. [image loading] (Z)MorroW 7-1 (14-6) +8
2.
[image loading]
(Z)Moon 6-2 (13-5) +8
3. [image loading] (T)Fenix 6-2 (13-6) +7
3. [image loading] (Z)Sheth 6-2 (12-5) +7
5. [image loading] (P)KiWiKaKi 5-3 (11-6) +5
6. [image loading] (R)TLO 3-5 (8-11) -3
7. [image loading] (Z)ViBE 3-5 (6-10) -4
7.
[image loading]
(T)RainBOw 3-5 (7-11) -4
9. [image loading] (P)Artosis 1-7 (2-14) -12
10. [image loading] (P)Grubby 0-8 (4-16) -12

Here we have a simple situation: (Z)MorroW is playing (Z)Sheth, and (Z)Moon is playing (T)Fenix. The winner of each match clinches a berth in the finals.

+ Show Spoiler [Division 1 Details] +
MorroW clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-0 or 2-1 win vs Sheth.
MorroW cannot advance to the finals if he loses.

Moon clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-0 or 2-1 win vs Fenix.
Moon cannot advance to the finals if he loses.

Fenix clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-0 or 2-1 win vs Moon.
Fenix cannot advance to the finals if he loses.

Sheth clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-0 or 2-1 win vs MorroW.
Fenix cannot advance to the finals if he loses.


Division 2

1.
[image loading]
(Z)July 7-1 (14-4) +10
2. [image loading] (P)White-Ra 5-3 (11-8) +3
2. [image loading] (T)SjoW 5-3 (11-8) +3
4. [image loading] (Z)DarKFoRcE 5-3 (10-9) +1
5. [image loading] (P)CrunCher 4-4 (10-9) +1
6. [image loading] (P)TT1 4-4 (9-9) +0
7. [image loading] (P)iNcontroL 4-4 (10-12) -2
8. [image loading] (Z)MoMaN 3-5 (10-11) -1
9.
[image loading]
(T)Ensnare 3-5 (8-10) -2
10. [image loading] (T)qxc 0-8 (3-16) -13

Now things get complicated. (Z)July has already clinched the first finals spot, but (P)White-Ra, (T)SjoW, (Z)DarKFoRcE, (P)CrunCher, and (P)TT1 all have a shot at the second spot, although the chances are vastly better for White-Ra, who just has to win, than for TT1, who has to win 2-0 and hope White-Ra, Sjow, and DarKFoRcE all lose.

+ Show Spoiler [Division 2 Details] +
July is guaranteed a spot in the finals.

White-Ra clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-0 win vs Ensnare.
White-Ra clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-1 win AND a 2-1 win or worse by Sjow.
White-Ra clinches a spot in the finals with a 1-2 loss AND a Sjow loss AND a DarKFoRcE loss AND a Cruncher 2-1 win or worse.
White-Ra clinches a spot in the finals with a 0-2 loss AND a Sjow 0-2 loss AND a DarKFoRcE loss AND a TT1 2-1 win.

Sjow clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-0 win vs iNcontroL AND a 2-1 win or worse by White-Ra.
Sjow clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-1 win AND a White-Ra loss.
Sjow clinches a spot in the finals with a 1-2 loss AND a White-Ra 0-2 loss AND a DarKFoRcE loss AND a Cruncher 2-1 win or worse.
Sjow cannot advance to the finals if he loses 0-2.

DarKFoRcE clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-0 or 2-1 win vs qxc AND a White-Ra loss AND a Sjow loss.
DarKFoRcE cannot advance to the finals if he loses.

Cruncher clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-0 win vs TT1 AND a White-Ra loss AND a Sjow loss AND a DarKFoRcE loss.

TT1 clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-0 win vs Cruncher AND a White-Ra 0-2 loss AND a Sjow 0-2 loss AND a DarKFoRcE loss.


Division 3

1.
[image loading]
(P)Squirtle 7-1 (14-5) +10
2. [image loading] (T)Strelok 7-1 (13-5) +9
3. [image loading] (P)NaNiwa 5-2 (11-4) +9
4.
[image loading]
(T)NaDa 5-3 (12-8) +4
5. [image loading] (P)Axslav 4-4 (10-9) +1
6. [image loading] (T)dde 4-4 (9-10) -1
7. [image loading] (Z)SLush 3-5 (7-13) -6
8.
[image loading]
(Z)mOOnGLaDe 2-6 (7-12) -5
9. [image loading] (T)KawaiiRice 2-6 (6-13) -7
10. [image loading] (Z)HayprO 1-6 (4-12) -8

(T)Strelok and (P)Squirtle advance automatically.

+ Show Spoiler [Division 3 Details] +
Strelok is guaranteed a spot in the finals.

Squirtle is guaranteed a spot in the finals.


Division 4

1.
[image loading]
(T)SeleCT 7-1 (15-3) +12
2. [image loading] (Z)Ret 7-1 (14-4) +10
3.
[image loading]
(P)Ace 6-2 (13-7) +6
4.
[image loading]
(P)MC 5-2 (10-7) +3
5. [image loading] (P)HasuObs 5-3 (12-9) +3
6. [image loading] (T)Stalife 3-5 (9-11) -2
7. [image loading] (T)BRAT_OK 3-5 (8-12) -4
8. [image loading] (T)GoOdy 2-6 (6-14) -8
9. [image loading] (Z)CatZ 1-7 (6-14) -8
10. [image loading] (Z)Machine 1-7 (5-15) -10

The two finals qualifiers are all but determined in this division. SeleCT is guaranteed a berth, and the only way for Ret to lose his place in the finals is for him to lose 0-2 to HasuObs and for Ace to subsequently 2-0 Goody.

+ Show Spoiler [Division 4 Details] +
SeleCT is guaranteed a spot in the finals.

Ret clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-0 or 2-1 win vs Hasuobs.
Ret clinches a spot in the finals with a 1-2 loss.
Ret clinches a spot in the finals with a 0-2 loss AND a 2-1 Ace win or worse.

Ace clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-0 win vs GoOdy AND a 0-2 Ret loss.


Division 5

1.
[image loading]
(T)BoxeR 7-1 (15-6) +9
2.
[image loading]
(Z)Zenio 7-2 (15-5) +10
3.
[image loading]
(Z)Sen 6-2 (14-5) +9
4. [image loading] (Z)IdrA 6-2 (13-6) +7
5. [image loading] (P)Socke 4-4 (10-10) +0
5. [image loading] (P)MaNa 4-4 (9-9) +0
7. [image loading] (T)ClouD 3-5 (7-12) -5
8. [image loading] (P)Tyler 2-6 (6-12) -6
9. [image loading] (T)Drewbie 2-6 (5-13) -8
10. [image loading] (T)PainUser 0-9 (2-18) -14

With (Z)Zenio's automatic 2-0, the situation is quite simple: If (T)BoxeR wins, he's in the finals. If (Z)Sen wins, he's in the finals as well. If either BoxeR or Sen loses, Zenio is in. And if Sen loses and (Z)IdrA beats BoxeR, IdrA is in. Simple!

+ Show Spoiler [Division 5 Details] +
NOTE: Painuser is out of NASL, so Zenio takes a 2-0 win.

BoxeR clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-0 or 2-1 win over Idra.

Zenio clinches a spot in the finals with a BoxeR loss OR a Sen loss.

Sen clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-0 or 2-1 win over Socke.

IdrA clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-0 or 2-1 win over BoxeR AND a Sen loss.


So much for the finals. What about the top twenty players who qualify for the playoffs?

Below, we have the entire NASL roster ranked in order of match record and game differential.

(T)SeleCT 7-1 (15-3) +12
(Z)July 7-1 (14-4) +10
(Z)Ret 7-1 (14-4) +10
(P)Squirtle 7-1 (14-5) +9
(T)BoxeR 7-1 (15-6) +9
(Z)MorroW 7-1 (14-6) +8
(Z)Zenio 7-2 (13-5) +10
(T)Strelok 6-1 (13-5) +8
(Z)Sen 6-2 (14-5) +9
(Z)Moon 6-2 (13-5) +8
(T)Fenix 6-2 (13-6) +7
(Z)Sheth 6-2 (12-5) +7
(Z)IdrA 6-2 (13-6) +7
(P)Ace 6-2 (13-7) +6
(P)NaNiwa 5-2 (11-4) +9
(P)MC 5-2 (10-7) +3
(P)KiWiKaKi 5-3 (11-6) +5
(T)NaDa 5-3 (12-8) + 4
(P)White-Ra 5-3 (11-8) +3
(P)HasuObs 5-3 (12-9) +3
(T)SjoW 5-3 (11-8) +3
(Z)DarKFoRcE 5-3 (10-9) +1

Cutoff #1 -- Every player above this line will almost certainly qualify for the playoffs.

(P)CrunCher 4-4 (10-9) +1
(P)Axslav 4-4 (10-9) +1
(P)TT1 4-4 (9-9) +0
(P)Socke 4-4 (10-10) +0
(P)MaNa 4-4 (9-9) +0
(T)dde 4-4 (9-10) -1
(P)iNcontroL 4-4 (10-12) -2
(Z)MoMaN 3-5 (10-11) -1
(T)Ensnare 3-5 (8-10) -2

Cutoff #2 -- This is the 30 player line. If the season ended today, every player above this line would be in the playoffs. Below this line, people still have a chance to make it in if one of the above players loses this week.

(T)Stalife 3-5 (9-11) -2
(T)TLO 3-5 (8-11) -3
(P)RainBOw 3-5 (7-11) -4
(Z)ViBE 3-5 (6-10) -4
(T)BRAT_OK 3-5 (8-12) -4
(T)ClouD 3-5 (7-12) -5
(Z)SLush 3-5 (7-13) -6

Cutoff #3 -- Every player below this line has no chance of making the playoffs.

(Z)mOOnGLaDe 2-6 (7-12) -5
(P)Tyler 2-6 (6-12) -6
(T)KawaiiRice 2-6 (6-13) -7
(T)Drewbie 2-6 (5-13) -8
(T)GoOdy 2-6 (6-14) -8
(Z)HayprO 1-6 (4-12) -8
(Z)CatZ 1-7 (6-14) -8
(Z)Machine 1-7 (5-15) -10
(P)Artosis 1-7 (2-14) -12
(P)Grubby 0-8 (4-16) -12
(T)qxc 0-8 (3-16) -13
(T)PainUser 0-9 (2-16) -16

So there you have it. I hope this knowledge makes watching the games more exciting!


We aren't only previewing Week 9 in this article. Here, emythrel takes a look back at a fantastic Week 8 game you might have missed.


Game of the Week
by emythrel



This week the only hard part of choosing a game of the week was whether it should be Moon Vs KiwiKaki Game 1 or Moon Vs KiwiKaki Game 2. That isn't to say these were the only great games this week, it's just that these 2 games were crazy good. I usually find ZvP to follow a predictable pattern. Protoss gets the deathball and Zerg mass expands and after 20 minutes they finally fight. This makes the matchup, to me, rather boring. The Moon Vs KiwiKaki series, however, was anything but.

Moon Vs KiwiKaki on Backwater Gulch

Kiwi spawned top right, Moon bottom right. The game starts out normal enough, Kiwi elects to 4gate while Moon decides on a speedling expand. The first five minutes of the game see very little action aside from a fail field at Kiwi's ramp that completely missed the two lings it was intended to trap. Kiwi builds up a nice Sentry/Zealot force and decides to attack at a very strange timing, while taking his natural behind it. Moon brings out both Queens and some drones to help fend off the rush but some amazing forcefields from Kiwi block the ramp, then block the queens and the drones into a nasty choke.

[image loading]

Moon throws up five, yes five spines and pumps out a lot of lings. Moon thinks Kiwi is all-in, however he is building a huge economy back home. More fantastic FF's block Moon's lings from exiting his natural to make a counter attack and they all die in a horrible massacre.

[image loading]

Having done as much damage as possible with very few losses, Kiwi goes home and takes a huge lead into the mid-game.

A minute or two goes by before Kiwi returns to Moon's natural, this time with Stalkers and an Immortal in tow. However Moon is more prepared this time around, he has been teching to Muta's and has his lings set up for a flank. A small engagement forces Kiwi to back off until his blink research finishes. This is moon's queue to counter with his Mutalisks, they fly straight in to the unprotected main of Kiwi and wreak havok on his mineral line, meanwhile back at Moon's base Blink has finished and Kiwi uses an observer to gain access to Moon's main. A mini base trade begins, great FF blocks the drones escape route as Moon's Spire dies. However Kiwi bizarrely elects to not kill Moon's Lair. Back in Kiwi's base the Muta's are still uncontested and well on their way to killing Kiwi's Main nexus. Moon expands to both the bottom left and top left mains while Kiwi continues to bring the pain back at the bottom right main.

[image loading]

More drones die as Kiwi camps at the top of the ramp, when his Main Nexus falls Kiwi decides its time to go home. The Muta's are finally repelled from Kiwi's main when the blink Stalkers get back home. The action is still happening as Kiwi discovers both of the expansions Moon has on the left side of the map, he sends a small group of stalkers to bottom left and then takes his main army to kill the top left main while Moon's Mutas rush to save the already saturated bottom left main.

[image loading]

Moon is severely wounded, but still has a significant Muta force. The Benny hill music begins to play as the Stalkers make a futile attempt to chase the Muta's around the middle section of the map. The Muta's return back to Kiwi's main just in time to see the new Nexus finish and take down some stalkers for fun. At this point the game begins to stabilize as both players finally begin to mine from their main's once more. Moon attempts to expand again to the top right main and continues to pick off any outlying pylons at Kiwi's base with his Muta ball. Kiwi, still stuck on two bases to Moon's five, is playing from behind and sneaks out DT and HT tech, Kiwi positions a DT at every Zerg expansion he can, taking out the heavily saturated bottom left main. At the same time Moon loses a bunch of Muta's at Kiwi's main to a great storm. The DT's continue to do their work taking one expansion down to just over 200 health and another down to less than 100 before Moon can clean them up.

[image loading]

Kiwi takes the opportunity to move out with his army, still being stuck on 2 bases he needs to make some magic happen. The Protoss army marches across the map to finish off the 200 HP hatch but Moon is already on his way to counter at Kiwi's natural with Lings and the now massive Muta force. The moment the natural falls the Muta's move to the main and drop that too. Kiwi now has no mining bases and only 365 minerals in the bank, its now or never, he must attack or face defeat. He warps in a round of units with his remaining minerals and heads straight for the Zerg base.

Probes, Stalkers, Zealots and Archons roll in to Moon's natural but are met by a huge Roach force that seemed to materialize from nowhere and NINE, yes NINE Spine Crawlers. With his supply rapidly falling and only Stalkers left on the field of battle, even the amazing blink micro Kiwi is known for can not save him and the Canadian is forced to GG.

[image loading]


Overall this was one of the best ZvP's I've ever seen, Moon showed that Muta's can be extremely effective against Protoss. He also showed that by expanding aggressively and spreading the Protoss out you can force them in to positions they would rather not be contesting allowing the Zerg to have free reign over the Protoss main base with those pesky Muta's! If you have VOD access this series is one you must see.


In the spirit of the best online weekly sports column on the internet today, JimLloyd gives us a retrospective on the first eight weeks of the NASL.


Nine Things I Think I Think
by JimLloyd


1. The NASL is competitive; you have to be focused. This is high-level play, and if you aren’t playing Starcraft professionally -- in the sense of doing so full-time -- you’re going to lose. Artosis and PainUser are excellent players, but they haven’t been fully focused on playing Starcraft II, and so have less-than-stellar records in the NASL. qxc is dealing with finishing up school and moving thousands of miles, and it’s reflected in his position in the standings. Interestingly, since many of these players won’t be in Season 2, it could be some time before they can return to the NASL. At least it’s still easier than Code A -> Code S.

2. Koreans are very good. No kidding, right? But note that I didn’t say they were “great.” The NASL hasn’t turned into a Korean league that just happens to be based in North America. Most of the Koreans are near the top of the division standings, but none of them look unbeatable. The top player by points is SeleCT, an American, and two of the five divisions are lead by non-Koreans. Ensnare and Rainbow have looked terrible at times, and even MC is only +3 on points. And lots of great non-Korean players -- e.g., Kas, ThorZain, miniWHEAT -- aren’t in the NASL yet. But obviously there’s a reason for this, right? The Koreans are dealing with lag (like they'd sweep the podium at a NA LAN event), or these aren’t the best Koreans (as if someone like, say, MMA, would beat July), or something else; I'm sure someone will tell us.

3. How are the teams faring? Remember, you had to be on a “team” (scarequotes for Grubby) to get into the NASL, so let’s look at which teams are doing well. Startale is clearly the class of the league, with July (7-1, 10 points), Squirtle (7-1, 9 points), and Ace (6-2, 6 points) all doing well. Dignitas also looks good, with SeleCT (7-1, 12 points) leading his division and Naniwa (5-2, 7 points, and one of the losses was a no-show) and SjoW (5-3, 3 points) both headed for the playoffs. Mousesports and fnatic are also positioned well, with a division leader and several other notable players. OGS and Evil Geniuses are pretty solid all around, with three players doing well and one not as much. ROOT, Liquid, and FXOpen are in similar positions, with one ace player high in the standings and the rest near the bottom. And CompLexity and sixjax are hoping to sneak someone into the playoffs. Then you have teams with few representatives like imba.FXOpen (not confusing at all), MYM, or ESC.Icybox, that don't really fit into a "how are the teams doing?" analysis.

4. CatZ is awesome. But we already knew that.

[image loading]


5. Not all divisions are made the same. When we get to the playoffs next week, it’ll be cool to see which divisions are tougher than others. Since there’s no inter-division play, there’s really no way to know, and we can only go by reputation and guesswork. Good enough for me! My ranking of the divisions from strongest to weakest: 4 (SeleCT, Ret, Ace, HasuObs, MC), 2 (July, White-Ra, SjoW), 5 (Sen, BoxeR, IdrA, Zenio), 3 (Squirtle, Strelok, Naniwa), 1 (Rainbow, Artosis, Grubby).

6. Speaking of playoffs, what is up with Starcraft leagues? Is it some kind of nerd filtering system whereby people who don’t want to spend forty minutes examining a giant chart don’t get to understand what’s going on? (And that giant chart was kindly made by some third party so other people wouldn’t have to wade through an impenetrable wall of text.) My theory is that everyone’s trying to come up with that perfect system that’s completely fair and will allow for the “best” players to succeed and the “worst” to fail.* But the perfect is the enemy of the comprehensible. I don’t know how the abstract mathematicians who came up with the systems missed the concept of “satisficing," but they’ve really got to read about it.

7. So many casters! If Starcraft is going to grow in popularity, it’s going to require good casters. Only the most die-hard fans and players can follow everything that’s going on without help, and a caster can make complex things seem simple (see John Madden, from American football). The NASL plays a ton of games, and they’ve used that as an opportunity to showcase lots of different casters.

And with iNcontroL playing so much, they’ve brought out a ton of different people. We’ve seen IdrA (low intensity, high game knowledge), TotalBiscuit (high intensity, lower game knowledge), CatsPajamas (giant beard), Mr. Bitter (tiny beard), Khaldor (German), Xeris (not German), and Diggity (shirt and tie!). I'm sure I’m forgetting some, too. It gives a lot of casters an opportunity to be seen on a big stage, and fans a chance to see how other people cast. I like the idea of different casters; you don’t need the same people casting every game, and the NASL has a lot of games -- viewers can use some different perspectives. It's a win-win-win for the casters, the league, and the fans.

The one constant this season, Gretorp, has frequently been the object of criticism, and yes, he does misuse words and make some others up on the fly, but I think he’s been pretty solid. His awkward charm and chemistry with iNcontroL have really developed over the course of the season, and he’s been a good counterpoint to the charismatic Protoss (who himself has been excellent). Personally, I think he should own the malapropisms, make them his “thing.” It'd add a "what will he say next?" element to the broadcast, like Bill Walton for the NBA. I don’t like when casters try to do “the ESPN voice.” Just because traditional sportscasters all talk the same doesn’t mean that it’s the right way to do it; I like that a caster’s personality can show through and add something to the broadcast.

8. So little context! While the casters have done a good job in describing and commenting on the action, they rarely put the games in the context of the larger league. Sometimes they don’t know where the players are in the standings, even where it’s a potentially important match. The casters could also provide some connection between what’s happening in the match being broadcast and the bewildering playoff system. There’s ample time before the games get “out of book” to throw in a few comments, which would only add to the drama the league said they wanted to create.

9. Quitters. So some players aren’t showing up for their late-season matches after they’ve been eliminated from the playoffs. I see two points: (i) if they’re already out of the money, why should they “waste” their time practicing or playing, but (ii) if they want to be considered “professionals,” they’ve got to show a professional ethic. Other sports use the “league standings before a playoff system” format, and professionals in those sports play hard even after they’ve been eliminated. Of course, it’s probably easier to maintain that professional ethic if you’re pulling in a substantial salary that can be cut off if you dog it late in the season. There's probably an analogue in the history of Brood War (as team leagues with salaried players came to the fore) with which I'm not familiar. So is it a flaw of the structure of the NASL, or is it a problem with the financial structure of “pro” Starcraft 2? What's the solution to either?

*The extent to which the designers add complexity to league structure in order to bring the results into line with their pre-existing expectations of what the “correct” results ought to be, and whether this is appropriate, shall be left for another article.


Well, that's all we have for this week. Stay tuned; we'll have more content out when the NASL playoffs roll around!
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ModeratorGood content always wins.
Kleskling
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway15 Posts
June 07 2011 20:26 GMT
#2
iin theee end it doesnt eeven maateeerr
lolwut
ESPRITsc
Profile Joined April 2011
200 Posts
June 07 2011 20:26 GMT
#3
I'm excited for the Finals!
Beyonder
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Netherlands15103 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-07 20:36:02
June 07 2011 20:26 GMT
#4
iNcontroL is one of the kings of strong standard play, as is Sjow. Both of these players showcase extremely safe and solid styles that should be great for incorporating into your macro play. iNcontrol tends to be very solid in his decision making, showing you great places to hide pylons and when are good timings to poke out with your army. Sjow is very solid in his macro and decision making as well, a great player to learn proper army control and movement from. Both of these players should teach some great timings to poke and prod at your opponent


Doesnt inc do a lot of funky stuff? His way is mindgames, not necessarily standard games? :o (e.g. his silly stuff vs losira).. And sjow is kind of different too lately (e.g. his tank/hellion pushes vs zerg^^)

Great to see a well written positive report! Think we are a tad harsh sometimes on sc2 ^_^ gj. And oohh, I especially like JimLloyd's part!
Moderator
HardCorey
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States709 Posts
June 07 2011 20:30 GMT
#5
cool beans. im excited
Don't Worry, Be Happy.
Fishriot
Profile Joined May 2010
United States621 Posts
June 07 2011 20:34 GMT
#6
Hopefully a good amount of the people who "gave up" on the NASL after the first week (day?) will come back and see how much it has improved.
cYaN
Profile Joined May 2004
Norway3322 Posts
June 07 2011 20:34 GMT
#7
Starting to get excited now, but clearly nasl need some big format changes for next season. The rest of this season should be gravy from here on in though^^
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
June 07 2011 20:37 GMT
#8
amazing writeup.. thanks motbob <3
Senx
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Sweden5901 Posts
June 07 2011 20:37 GMT
#9
On June 08 2011 05:26 Beyonder wrote:
Show nested quote +
iNcontroL is one of the kings of strong standard play, as is Sjow. Both of these players showcase extremely safe and solid styles that should be great for incorporating into your macro play. iNcontrol tends to be very solid in his decision making, showing you great places to hide pylons and when are good timings to poke out with your army. Sjow is very solid in his macro and decision making as well, a great player to learn proper army control and movement from. Both of these players should teach some great timings to poke and prod at your opponent


Doesnt inc do a lot of funky stuff? His way is mindgames, not necessarily standard games :o (e.g. his silly stuff vs losira).. And sjow is kind of different too lately (e.g. his tank/hellion pushes vs zerg^^)

Great to see a well written positive report! Think we are a tad harsh sometimes on sc2 ^_^ gj. And oohh, I especially like JimLloyd's part!


I find myself confused as to what Incontrols style of play actually is - on his stream he's 99% of the time playing straight up long macro games, however in alot of tournament games he goes for some sort of rush or funky strategy.

"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
thepuppyassassin
Profile Joined April 2011
900 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-07 20:40:19
June 07 2011 20:40 GMT
#10
Glad to hear that the Koreans aren't absolutely crushing face this tournament like they did MLG. Let's go Sheth and Idra! USA USA!!
bobwhiz
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States725 Posts
June 07 2011 20:40 GMT
#11
Nice write-up. =)
Signatures are simply a cover for having no personality. -Kiante
B.I.G.
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
3251 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-07 20:40:53
June 07 2011 20:40 GMT
#12
fun fact: out of the 9 participating koreans, only one ISNT on the point of almost certainly ending up in the playoffs. feels kinda MLG-ish
Krillo
Profile Joined January 2011
Norway3 Posts
June 07 2011 20:40 GMT
#13
"And of course Idra needs no introduction, a beastly macro zerg with a beastly attitude in his tight leather gracket."
Say no more.
Der dill ikke er, bruk ei dill.
Chrill
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden91 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-07 20:41:41
June 07 2011 20:41 GMT
#14
nvm.
Kui
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom88 Posts
June 07 2011 20:42 GMT
#15
miniWHEAT is definitely revolutionising the zoyg vs X metagame.
"I told you I was ill." -Written on Spike Milligan's Gravestone.
bobwhiz
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States725 Posts
June 07 2011 20:43 GMT
#16
Maybe a system where the third match and every match after eliminates the bottom pool player from the playoffs- so less people just don't show up. This would mean Grubby and Artosis would have had three matches to four matches max. Maybe losers go head to head to kick the bottom one out... survivor-ish?
Signatures are simply a cover for having no personality. -Kiante
ThatGuy89
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1968 Posts
June 07 2011 20:43 GMT
#17
im surprisingly having a hard time getting my head around this :p

the top 2 in each group advance. Thats 10 spaces. These people are then effectively removed from the league. The top 20 people are now placed into 5 brackets, each with 4 players in who will have another pool play scenario, and the winner of each group joins the previous 10, and the final is made up from the winner of an open tournament?

how long will this 'pool' stage last? will they do one division a day like they do now? or will it just all be done live at the same time with some kind of live updates? like what MLG was
starcraft911
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Korea (South)1263 Posts
June 07 2011 20:43 GMT
#18
Damn, here's hoping sen loses idra crushes boxer.
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
June 07 2011 20:44 GMT
#19
Soo... as a player that doesn't really follow SC2 that much, where can I find the VODs?
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
SuperStyle
Profile Joined March 2011
United States976 Posts
June 07 2011 20:44 GMT
#20
This will be the greatest tournament up to date, winner of this has more brag rights than Thorzain with TSL, Naniwa with MLG, or Ace with IEM.
Anyways GO GO DIGNITAS top 3 finish
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
June 07 2011 20:44 GMT
#21
finally, write-ups for NASL! It's about time :B!

Nice!
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
HeIios
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2523 Posts
June 07 2011 20:45 GMT
#22
Korea, Sweden and Ukraine representing! :D Great to see.
Thanks for the writeup!
stalife
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada1222 Posts
June 07 2011 20:46 GMT
#23
Dde is 3-5 isn't he?

I think the quitters r really...making things bad for the league
www.memoryexpress.com
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
June 07 2011 20:48 GMT
#24
Weren't the 2 losses of MC walkovers, where he couldn't play at the expected time? I think one was due to issues on his flight back from Dreamhack and in the other he told the organizers on time, so that he didn't get the 2 auto-losses.

Anyways, I wonder which player from Korea will decide to participate in the open tournament.
Wroshe
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands1051 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-07 20:55:49
June 07 2011 20:51 GMT
#25
Very nice writeup.

I want to add though that HayprO-Strelok has already been broadcast VOD link. The result was the following:
+ Show Spoiler +
Strelok 2-0 victory over HayprO
No_Roo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States905 Posts
June 07 2011 20:56 GMT
#26
Oh excellent resource, thanks a ton for breaking down the standings so well.
(US) NoRoo.fighting
CardinalSC
Profile Joined January 2011
United States145 Posts
June 07 2011 20:56 GMT
#27
It says MC is 5-2 in the cutoff list. I thought he was 4-3?
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
June 07 2011 20:57 GMT
#28
On June 08 2011 05:51 Wroshe wrote:
Very nice writeup.

I want to add though that HayprO-Strelok has already been broadcast VOD link. The result was the following:
+ Show Spoiler +
Strelok 2-0 victory over HayprO

Oh snap, thanks. That result somehow didn't find its way into the LR thread for day 3 last week.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
Kamate
Profile Joined May 2010
Romania580 Posts
June 07 2011 20:57 GMT
#29
This thread screams of TL management saying" lets make an awesome thread about NASL" - which is, indeed, awesome, but;..
Or I am totally wrong - that goes better
phanto
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden708 Posts
June 07 2011 21:03 GMT
#30
Excellent feedback from JimLloyd.

I haven't watched a lot of NASL but it sure looks like the playoffs can be very exciting, and I'll definitely tune in then.
ShadowStarshine
Profile Joined April 2011
6 Posts
June 07 2011 21:03 GMT
#31
You can't blame the quitters, unlike professional sports, Starcraft is about multiple tournaments offering prize pools. NASL is not the one defining league. You can cry about professionalism, but the best thing for the player to do is focus on tournaments which they still have a chance to make money.
3772
Profile Joined May 2010
Czech Republic434 Posts
June 07 2011 21:04 GMT
#32
But obviously there’s a reason for this, right? The Koreans are dealing with lag (like they'd sweep the podium at a NA LAN event), or these aren’t the best Koreans (as if someone like, say, MMA, would beat July), or something else; I'm sure someone will tell us.

This is so good.
Haarp
Profile Joined December 2010
United States38 Posts
June 07 2011 21:04 GMT
#33
I love these sorts of breakdowns. I feel the plus/minus implementation is a neat concept in something like this. It makes each game important, not necessarily each match. Losing 2-1 isn't necessarily a bad thing.
The party is now, not there.
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12704 Posts
June 07 2011 21:05 GMT
#34
Thanks for bringing me back in, I was lost and had little desire to figure these things out for myself. Time to get pumped for the playoffs? Yes.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
mucker
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1120 Posts
June 07 2011 21:05 GMT
#35
The quitters things seems like a really hard problem to solve, but I think it will be better in seasons after this. By having all the players chosen by invite there were bound to be some people chosen that wouldn't meet expectations for one reason or another. Once the player base is made up of people that have qualified through the open tournament or past performance I think it will be more competitive and you'll have less players mathematically eliminated so early.
It's supposed to be automatic but actually you have to press this button.
xlat
Profile Joined August 2010
176 Posts
June 07 2011 21:07 GMT
#36
"Things to Look for all Week Long:

Will Grubby, Qxc and Painuser get their first wins?"

Afaik painuser has thrown in the towel and won't play anymore?
This was posted in the OP of NASL week 8 day 5:

"Boxer Obtains a 2-0 W.O. Painuser Gives up on NASL and BM's not even notifying NASL of this NASL hints at "this will not be forgotten" Boxer had to stay up for the entire day it will be noted because painuser didn't just notify NASL that he was quiting NASL "
iMp.will.
Profile Joined July 2009
Bulgaria441 Posts
June 07 2011 21:08 GMT
#37
I thought the super progamer Drewbie would rape his group. Ater all he is so hyped and stuff.

LOL
Owii
Profile Joined July 2010
United States357 Posts
June 07 2011 21:12 GMT
#38
Great write up! I definitely missed all of NASL last week, so this was a fantastic article for getting me back up-to-date. Also, it's interesting that the class breakdown for the top 30 is 7 T, 10 Z, 13 P. Not quite the class split that I would have expected, but at least all three races have a contender or two for the masses to root for.
Greem
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
730 Posts
June 07 2011 21:14 GMT
#39
Thx for such a great writeup, i hope NASL will get better each season, i know it will happen, just saying ;P Specially VOD part!
youtube.com/N0rthernL1ght
Mobius_1
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2763 Posts
June 07 2011 21:20 GMT
#40
Haha "Koreans are very good" was pretty funny, can't wait to see miniWheat owning it up playing the red Zerg putting Hatchweries in your base.

Looking forward to the playoffs, but damn, if the format isn't pretty damn complicated!

(My 2 cents. make it simple like the UEFA Champions League or World Cup, 8 (or multiples thereof) groups of 4 players each, top 2 advances from each group into knockout stages, culminating in a grand final show live on Sky Sports at pubs all around the world.)

Select fighting!
Starleague Forever. RIP KT Violet~
MattRz
Profile Joined April 2011
Chile1680 Posts
June 07 2011 21:21 GMT
#41
great work motbob
Go Boxer !
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake ♞
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
June 07 2011 21:22 GMT
#42
on the subject of quitters. even though not everyone is going to the playoffs, there are 20(?) spots which just give automatic qualification for season 2. if thats not worth fighting for to the final weeks then you gotta have pretty low self esteem

apart from people who are just giving up on playing all together
DanboSmitty
Profile Joined April 2011
80 Posts
June 07 2011 21:24 GMT
#43
Great writeup I wasn't sure how NASL fully worked, but I see 30 players make it into the playoffs, sweet.
w33dOr
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany126 Posts
June 07 2011 21:24 GMT
#44
nice read
Blindlad
Profile Joined March 2010
Ireland19 Posts
June 07 2011 21:32 GMT
#45
Wow, thanks Motbob! Was actually looking for this exact information earlier today.
Datum
Profile Joined February 2011
United States371 Posts
June 07 2011 21:32 GMT
#46
"Only the most die-hard fans and players can follow everything that’s going on without help, and a caster can make complex things seem simple (see John Madden, from American football)"

I assume you forgot to tack on, "As the perfect counterexample - an announcer who makes simple things seem complex.
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
June 07 2011 21:36 GMT
#47
LOL what game did Catz proxy hatch ST Ace?
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
ThatGuy89
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1968 Posts
June 07 2011 21:39 GMT
#48
game 1 lol?
look at the pic its self explanitary
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
June 07 2011 21:39 GMT
#49
Wow, quite comprehensive. The cut-off line 1 confused me, since you said that the players would almost certainly make it to the play-offs. I thought that was determined by the performance in the divisions, rather than the entire league @_@
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
Dexington
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada7276 Posts
June 07 2011 21:40 GMT
#50
Aww you guys are taking my business :'(

Only kidding. But in case anyone was wondering, I have a thread made up in SC2 general about the same thing. I also go into a little bit of detail regarding the 8 players who can still get into the qualifying playoffs.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=230622

This thread looks much prettier than mine though
"Man you guys are missing out waving your stats dicks about instead of watching this pvp" - bbm
Carson
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada820 Posts
June 07 2011 21:43 GMT
#51
gogo boxer he'll take NASL season 1 I think, and the 50k will go a long way towards a SlayerS tournament scene domination in 2011
"You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; jealousy you have to earn." Arnold Schwarzenegger
ThatGuy89
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1968 Posts
June 07 2011 21:45 GMT
#52
im backing july tbh
Benjef
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United Kingdom6921 Posts
June 07 2011 21:48 GMT
#53
Can't wait! Dignitas, MorroW and Boxer FIGHTING.
<3 | Dota 2 | DayZ | <3
Kazeyonoma
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2912 Posts
June 07 2011 21:49 GMT
#54
so sad nada didn't auto qual, hope he makes it through the playoffs!
I now have autographs of both BoxeR and NaDa. I can die happy. Lim Yo Hwan and Lee Yun Yeol FIGHTING forever!
Kaz.
Profile Joined October 2010
United States69 Posts
June 07 2011 21:52 GMT
#55
NASL has been a blast to watch this season, even more so with gretorp and incontrol casting, they are quickly becoming my favorite casters to watch. Brilliant work this season
Attitude is forever
may0nnaise
Profile Joined May 2011
United States40 Posts
June 07 2011 22:01 GMT
#56
Great article, thank you =D

Really looking forward to IdrA vs BoxeR and MC vs Select!
spreadable goodness
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10703 Posts
June 07 2011 22:02 GMT
#57
GO DARKFORCE.


yes, thats all i had to say.
CaptainCrush
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States785 Posts
June 07 2011 22:02 GMT
#58
Why is Painuser no longer in the NASL?
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10703 Posts
June 07 2011 22:03 GMT
#59
because he lost to much and ran away
Clannadxd
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden13 Posts
June 07 2011 22:03 GMT
#60
iNcontroL casting <3
loli
ThatGuy89
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1968 Posts
June 07 2011 22:07 GMT
#61
On June 08 2011 07:02 CaptainCrush wrote:
Why is Painuser no longer in the NASL?

he didnt show for his game vs boxer. No communication from him or anything just really BM
afaik they still havent heard anything so he could have a legit reason. But i guess not
Mailing
Profile Joined March 2011
United States3087 Posts
June 07 2011 22:09 GMT
#62
Did NASL give any information how the rank 11-30 people will be placed into their brackets?
Are you hurting ESPORTS? Find out today - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=232866
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13926 Posts
June 07 2011 22:11 GMT
#63
:D Hi Five motbob. Great first writeup man.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
TheRealPaciFist
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1049 Posts
June 07 2011 22:13 GMT
#64
TLO you can make it!!! <3
Second favorite strategy game of all time: Starcraft. First: Go (aka Wei Qi, Paduk, or Igo)
Scrandom
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada2819 Posts
June 07 2011 22:13 GMT
#65
I think Artosis can still clutch this
shell
Profile Joined October 2010
Portugal2722 Posts
June 07 2011 22:28 GMT
#66
Great article, really nice.

Really liked your opinions overall and i feel the same.. People are always agressive when they critize everything but they never praise it.

I like nasl hope they fix up the vod section so i can better use my premium, but i've enjoyed it so far and the playoffs and finals will be great!
BENFICA || Besties: idra, Stephano, Nestea, Jaedong, Serral, Jinro, Scarlett || Zerg <3
Samhax
Profile Joined August 2010
1054 Posts
June 07 2011 22:30 GMT
#67
Thanks for the article, The End is Near indeed!
rickybobby
Profile Joined October 2010
United States405 Posts
June 07 2011 22:31 GMT
#68
I hope july wins. Anyway cool write up its nice to see the bigger picture of nasl
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
June 07 2011 22:36 GMT
#69
doubt painuser will get his first win this week

although nasl was very bad in the beginning, its certainly nice to watch now... Im excited for the grand offline finals for the first season and Koreans dominating the divisions again
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33388 Posts
June 07 2011 22:38 GMT
#70
On June 08 2011 05:57 Kamate wrote:
This thread screams of TL management saying" lets make an awesome thread about NASL" - which is, indeed, awesome, but;..
Or I am totally wrong - that goes better


no that's pretty much how it went, and it's a good thing!
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Pimpmuckl
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany528 Posts
June 07 2011 22:40 GMT
#71
Great read, tyvm!
twitter.com/pimpmuckl
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-07 22:42:16
June 07 2011 22:40 GMT
#72
0o Every single Top zerg is at the top of the rankings, Zerg is pretty good

Jokes aside, all spots well deserved. Hopefully all the top Protoss don't fall below the cutoff, going to be a fun finals
killamane
Profile Joined May 2010
United States138 Posts
June 07 2011 22:43 GMT
#73
i got banned from nasl chat in week 1 for saying " the commercials interrupt the casters thats fucking cool" and havent been unbanned. anyone know how i get unbanned?i wont swear anymore.
emythrel
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom2599 Posts
June 07 2011 22:46 GMT
#74
On June 08 2011 07:38 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 05:57 Kamate wrote:
This thread screams of TL management saying" lets make an awesome thread about NASL" - which is, indeed, awesome, but;..
Or I am totally wrong - that goes better


no that's pretty much how it went, and it's a good thing!


Don't give away our secret Wax...... they are supposed to think TL writers have free will
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
Karalius
Profile Joined January 2008
Lithuania271 Posts
June 07 2011 22:49 GMT
#75
And if Sen loses and (Z)IdrA beats BoxeR, IdrA is in. Simple!

and for the life of me i can't find witch day sen will play in this article..
Nightmair
Profile Joined June 2011
United States8 Posts
June 07 2011 22:52 GMT
#76
NASL needs better casters....GRETORP then i think it would be much more popular in the US
"Seek hapiness"
Thrax
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1755 Posts
June 07 2011 22:52 GMT
#77
Really a great article, props to all the writers that contributed.
The tournament in July is going to be really high caliber. I hope all my favorite players perform well enough in the last week and in the playoffs to make it!
motiust
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia97 Posts
June 07 2011 22:53 GMT
#78
The NASL production sux, it is si bad that if is not because of Geoff I would of demand my money back!

It was basically unwatchable, too slow, just a rippoff alround. I could of just watch free stream and that still lags at times ffs, if you can't afford the bandwidth for 1040p, don't market yourself like so.

I'm so pissed off evenever I hear NASL :O
emythrel
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom2599 Posts
June 07 2011 22:53 GMT
#79
On June 08 2011 07:49 tragedy wrote:
Show nested quote +
And if Sen loses and (Z)IdrA beats BoxeR, IdrA is in. Simple!

and for the life of me i can't find witch day sen will play in this article..


Sen is in division 5, NASL runs Wednesday thru Sunday.... I'll let you do the math ;p
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
Thrax
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1755 Posts
June 07 2011 22:54 GMT
#80
On June 08 2011 07:49 tragedy wrote:
Show nested quote +
And if Sen loses and (Z)IdrA beats BoxeR, IdrA is in. Simple!

and for the life of me i can't find witch day sen will play in this article..

Division 5 is broadcasted on Day 5 (Sunday!)
TheNessman
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4158 Posts
June 07 2011 22:55 GMT
#81
this is a really cool post, thanks a lot!

last word:

CATZZZZZZZZZZZ I LB YOU EVERY TIME I LOVE YOU YOU ARE AWESOME I WILL NEVER GIVE UPP!!!!!!!!!!!!
~~! youtube.com/xmungam1 !~~
emythrel
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom2599 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-07 22:55:22
June 07 2011 22:55 GMT
#82
On June 08 2011 07:53 motiust wrote:
The NASL production sux, it is si bad that if is not because of Geoff I would of demand my money back!

It was basically unwatchable, too slow, just a rippoff alround. I could of just watch free stream and that still lags at times ffs, if you can't afford the bandwidth for 1040p, don't market yourself like so.

I'm so pissed off evenever I hear NASL :O


I've watched every single broadcast of NASL since week 1, since week 2 I have experienced close to 0 lag....... the problem lies not with NASL's upload but JTV's routing..... if you are going to complain at least have an informed opinion.
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
cheesemaster
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada1975 Posts
June 07 2011 22:56 GMT
#83
On June 08 2011 05:37 Senx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 05:26 Beyonder wrote:
iNcontroL is one of the kings of strong standard play, as is Sjow. Both of these players showcase extremely safe and solid styles that should be great for incorporating into your macro play. iNcontrol tends to be very solid in his decision making, showing you great places to hide pylons and when are good timings to poke out with your army. Sjow is very solid in his macro and decision making as well, a great player to learn proper army control and movement from. Both of these players should teach some great timings to poke and prod at your opponent


Doesnt inc do a lot of funky stuff? His way is mindgames, not necessarily standard games :o (e.g. his silly stuff vs losira).. And sjow is kind of different too lately (e.g. his tank/hellion pushes vs zerg^^)

Great to see a well written positive report! Think we are a tad harsh sometimes on sc2 ^_^ gj. And oohh, I especially like JimLloyd's part!


I find myself confused as to what Incontrols style of play actually is - on his stream he's 99% of the time playing straight up long macro games, however in alot of tournament games he goes for some sort of rush or funky strategy.


Yea i really wish wed see him play straight up games we know he is so good at and showcases on his stream, but it seems (maybe less so in NASL) but at LANS he gets flustered or something he always seems to go for some cheesy funky strategy, not that there is anything wrong with that, but i know he can play a really good straight up style and thats the style i like to see from him. Relying on a pylon not being found isnt something you can rely on consistently.
Slayers_MMA The terran who beats terrans
emythrel
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom2599 Posts
June 07 2011 22:59 GMT
#84
On June 08 2011 07:56 cheesemaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 05:37 Senx wrote:
On June 08 2011 05:26 Beyonder wrote:
iNcontroL is one of the kings of strong standard play, as is Sjow. Both of these players showcase extremely safe and solid styles that should be great for incorporating into your macro play. iNcontrol tends to be very solid in his decision making, showing you great places to hide pylons and when are good timings to poke out with your army. Sjow is very solid in his macro and decision making as well, a great player to learn proper army control and movement from. Both of these players should teach some great timings to poke and prod at your opponent


Doesnt inc do a lot of funky stuff? His way is mindgames, not necessarily standard games :o (e.g. his silly stuff vs losira).. And sjow is kind of different too lately (e.g. his tank/hellion pushes vs zerg^^)

Great to see a well written positive report! Think we are a tad harsh sometimes on sc2 ^_^ gj. And oohh, I especially like JimLloyd's part!


I find myself confused as to what Incontrols style of play actually is - on his stream he's 99% of the time playing straight up long macro games, however in alot of tournament games he goes for some sort of rush or funky strategy.


Yea i really wish wed see him play straight up games we know he is so good at and showcases on his stream, but it seems (maybe less so in NASL) but at LANS he gets flustered or something he always seems to go for some cheesy funky strategy, not that there is anything wrong with that, but i know he can play a really good straight up style and thats the style i like to see from him. Relying on a pylon not being found isnt something you can rely on consistently.


haha, ur name and this post is brilliant!!!!!

Playing ladder is different from a tourney or league, everyone knows iNc can play a really good straight up game and they play in to that, so he uses mind games to attempt to get the upper hand.... Maybe not the most safe way to play, but fortune favours the bold!
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
Zeke50100
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2220 Posts
June 07 2011 22:59 GMT
#85
Thanks, NASL, for giving me a huge boost to my...Liquibet :D

Anyway, I'm super pumped about some of these games. I'm unable to get a pass, unfortunately, but I'm confident that the games will be awesome nonetheless. I'm surprised to see some of the overall standings ^_^
cheesemaster
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada1975 Posts
June 07 2011 23:03 GMT
#86
Honestly though NASL hasnt really been able to hold my interest, i payed for an HD pass and i still watch a few vods of my favourite players here and there, but its not something i desire to watch everyday, the non live format even if its unavoidable just simply isnt as entertaining , and with GSL happening 5-6 days a week i would much prefer to spend 3 hours watching that weather i stay up or watch the vods the next day.
Slayers_MMA The terran who beats terrans
MartinN
Profile Joined April 2011
Spain307 Posts
June 07 2011 23:08 GMT
#87
the near is end
Toastmold
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada207 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-07 23:13:10
June 07 2011 23:11 GMT
#88
No doubt a lot of effort went into this colossal write-up, but maybe next time try to avoid using 'solid,' 'safe' and 'standard' so much in describing the various match-ups.
hi.
emythrel
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom2599 Posts
June 07 2011 23:11 GMT
#89
On June 08 2011 08:03 cheesemaster wrote:
Honestly though NASL hasnt really been able to hold my interest, i payed for an HD pass and i still watch a few vods of my favourite players here and there, but its not something i desire to watch everyday, the non live format even if its unavoidable just simply isnt as entertaining , and with GSL happening 5-6 days a week i would much prefer to spend 3 hours watching that weather i stay up or watch the vods the next day.


I can respect that position, also look at it this way, GSL's paid stream is the same quality as NASL's free stream so if you think your money is better spent on GSL.... you can still watch NASL in fairly good quality for free. With all the content out there atm, we all have to make choices about what to watch.

Personally the non-live element doesn't make much difference to me, the games are just as good whether they are live or not to me, I still get that same feeling of excitement watching a VOD as watching a live show, however watching NASL "live" allows you to have a shared experience as opposed to watching a VOD by your lonesome!
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
Kisra
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom466 Posts
June 07 2011 23:14 GMT
#90
Awesome write-up, been following NASL closely and had a lot of fun with it. Can't wait for the final 16, gonna be awesome :D
:D
dudecrush
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada418 Posts
June 07 2011 23:19 GMT
#91
On June 08 2011 05:44 Zoler wrote:
Soo... as a player that doesn't really follow SC2 that much, where can I find the VODs?


nasl.tv - but you have to pay.

Very nice article. I liked the 9 points. And CatZ is hilarious.

wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
June 07 2011 23:21 GMT
#92
Wow, congrats. I've really been waiting for something like this to be written up about the standing of where players are in NASL. Fucking brilliant. Btw. QXC I BELIEVE IN YOU!!!!!!!!
liftlift > tsm
Diabolegal
Profile Joined June 2011
United States110 Posts
June 07 2011 23:25 GMT
#93
Qxc has so many [TvZ] openings designed for aggression


Qxc said on Mr. Bitter's "12 Weeks with the Pros" that he has 2 builds vs Zerg: 2 Rax and Reactor Hellion-Cloaked Banshee. Has that changed? I haven't watched all his TvZ matches in the NASL.
Diamond Terran (NA)
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
June 07 2011 23:40 GMT
#94
I feel bad for Naniwa, he got walk-overed against Strelok *after* NASL agreed to post-pone the match due to a misunderstanding (overreaction from NASL the way I see it).

Imagine if Naniwa had beat Strelok, then they would both be 6-2 headed into the final week.
Mateo0
Profile Joined August 2010
France112 Posts
June 07 2011 23:41 GMT
#95
If I understand correctly you're saying MoMaN has still a chance? That would be great but seeing his stats it seems weird to me. Can someone explain this to me? xD
m4553 always in my heart.
AmiPolizeiFunk
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany804 Posts
June 07 2011 23:45 GMT
#96
Very useful, thanks
TheAmazombie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States3714 Posts
June 07 2011 23:51 GMT
#97
Awesome write-up here. I think this will help get some of the haters interested again. I have watched tons of the games and think they are doing a great job for the first season. I believe we will only see improvement. =)
We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery, we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. -Charlie Chaplin
vdale
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1173 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-07 23:59:12
June 07 2011 23:58 GMT
#98
you forgot to mention team ALTERNATE (Socke and Darkforce)
Finrod1
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany3997 Posts
June 08 2011 00:00 GMT
#99
Awesome write up!
tadL
Profile Joined September 2010
Croatia679 Posts
June 08 2011 00:10 GMT
#100
darkforce should smash qxc easy, if he holds up "surprise surprise" 2rax bunkerrush -> gg for darkforce.
mDuo13
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States307 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 00:13:20
June 08 2011 00:12 GMT
#101
mDuo13
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States307 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 00:13:08
June 08 2011 00:12 GMT
#102
It’s always a treat to watch Boxer play; he has the best mix of safe and creative play and makes some awesome decisions while playing.

Uhhh... I love to watch the Emperor play as well, but... I wouldn't call most things BoxeR does "safe". If anything, he takes calculated risks as much as anyone.

I find the cutoff lines for playoffs in the OP confusing. As I understand, there are 16 spots in the playoffs -- 10 for division winners, 5 for high-ranked wildcards, and 1 from the open qualifier... so how are all 22 of the players above Cutoff #1 "almost certainly" going to make it in?

Those aside, good thread. Looking forward to NASL's playoffs.
nvs.
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada3609 Posts
June 08 2011 00:13 GMT
#103
iNcontroL is one of the kings of strong standard play, as is Sjow. Both of these players showcase extremely safe and solid styles that should be great for incorporating into your macro play.


Really? Who wrote this? -.-

incontrol is definitely a good player but I wouldn't even put him close to the title of "king of strong standard play."
mrRoflpwn
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2618 Posts
June 08 2011 00:16 GMT
#104
Great write up, can't wait for miniWHEAT lol. I really wish there was a way to fix people from quitting at the end but until then I guess we will have to deal with it. As the finals will be at a LAN who ever wins this has waaayyyy more honor and bragging rights than any other tournament to date (besides winning the GSL of course- but thats on a WHOLE different level ] ) I cannot wait for the finals in July.
Long live the Boss Toss!
wattabeast
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States957 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 00:26:56
June 08 2011 00:25 GMT
#105
I have a few edits that have come to my attention. First off,
Fenix clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-0 or 2-1 win vs Moon.
Fenix cannot advance to the finals if he loses.

Sheth clinches a spot in the finals with a 2-0 or 2-1 win vs MorroW.
Fenix cannot advance to the finals if he loses.

The second "Fenix cannot advance to the finals if he loses" Should be "Sheth cannot advance to the finals if he loses.
Next edit.
For the playoff cutoffs MC is not mentioned besides in the overall list of players and their rankings. Please fix these! THanks, Wattabeast
:O
viii
Profile Joined March 2011
United States266 Posts
June 08 2011 00:58 GMT
#106
The tourney is awesome, but division 5 is the most interesting to me, i really think they should mix up the groups so not one division has almost all the strong players.
For those who came from nothing, and became something - DGK
Raid
Profile Joined September 2010
United States398 Posts
June 08 2011 00:59 GMT
#107
Boxer vs Idra! droollllllllll

They finally meet again after the manofoneway had deemed Idra as grack for all eternity....
skrzmark
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1528 Posts
June 08 2011 01:02 GMT
#108
I really Want Zenio and Boxer to make it out of Division 5, but Sen is just too awesome so GOGO SEN and not Zenio
We got them GOM TvT's and them mlGG's
MajorityofOne
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada2506 Posts
June 08 2011 01:13 GMT
#109
Ill never adapt to Gretorp's casting, but the NASL has still been awesome. Can't wait to see who wins this....so many great Zerg hopes likely to be in the finals and playoffs, as well as my favorite Terran, Select!
ES_JohnClark
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1121 Posts
June 08 2011 01:17 GMT
#110
very good write up. It certainly shows some issues where NASL needs improvement, but overall a pretty successful season.
Still Naked!
kongor
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada38 Posts
June 08 2011 01:33 GMT
#111
Great write-up motbob, confusedcrib, JimLloyd, and emythrel! Thank you!
Happy Frog
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia490 Posts
June 08 2011 01:41 GMT
#112
Awesome as always motbob!
yowza
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland210 Posts
June 08 2011 01:54 GMT
#113
"The Koreans are dealing with lag (like they'd sweep the podium at a NA LAN event), or these aren’t the best Koreans (as if someone like, say, MMA, would beat July), or something else; I'm sure someone will tell us."

I find this entire statement hilarious considering koreans showed how hard they steamroll without lag to slow them down at MLG, not a single one got knocked out by a non-korean.

Oh and MMA finished first while July finished what, 10th?


Where as online-leagues like the NASL and TSL are entertaining, they show very little of what the koreans are capable of in my opinion, simply because of the latency difference.

It's hardly a coincidence that foreigners achieve very little at the GSL while koreans win pretty much every single foreign LAN they attend.
derp
Talkerst
Profile Joined October 2010
124 Posts
June 08 2011 02:03 GMT
#114
I was working on something similar but your write-up is great. However, I ran into an issue when Xeris posted http://www.nasl.tv/News/Article/20110607nasl-playoffs-week-8-snapshot today. In it he says a three way tie between Sjow, DarkForce and White-Ra would go to White-Ra regardless of points because he has a head-to-head win against both. It then goes on to say ties are determined by head-to-head first then points. This seems to be reverse of what you have, I also assumed points first initially. Maybe I'm just reading what he said wrong but thought I'd point it out either way.
Looky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1608 Posts
June 08 2011 02:04 GMT
#115
should be a fine for not playing a match. these "quitters" could ruin who ends making playoffs and such.
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 02:06:46
June 08 2011 02:06 GMT
#116
On June 08 2011 11:03 Talkerst wrote:
I was working on something similar but your write-up is great. However, I ran into an issue when Xeris posted http://www.nasl.tv/News/Article/20110607nasl-playoffs-week-8-snapshot today. In it he says a three way tie between Sjow, DarkForce and White-Ra would go to White-Ra regardless of points because he has a head-to-head win against both. It then goes on to say ties are determined by head-to-head first then points. This seems to be reverse of what you have, I also assumed points first initially. Maybe I'm just reading what he said wrong but thought I'd point it out either way.

What? I was sure it would be points. Doesn't points make more sense? Weird.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
Talkerst
Profile Joined October 2010
124 Posts
June 08 2011 02:08 GMT
#117
Points does make sense, as I figured that's the way it should be as well. Feel free to tell me Xeris has it wrong in the article or that I misread it. Really confused right now myself.
confusedcrib
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1307 Posts
June 08 2011 02:16 GMT
#118
On June 08 2011 07:56 cheesemaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 05:37 Senx wrote:
On June 08 2011 05:26 Beyonder wrote:
iNcontroL is one of the kings of strong standard play, as is Sjow. Both of these players showcase extremely safe and solid styles that should be great for incorporating into your macro play. iNcontrol tends to be very solid in his decision making, showing you great places to hide pylons and when are good timings to poke out with your army. Sjow is very solid in his macro and decision making as well, a great player to learn proper army control and movement from. Both of these players should teach some great timings to poke and prod at your opponent


Doesnt inc do a lot of funky stuff? His way is mindgames, not necessarily standard games :o (e.g. his silly stuff vs losira).. And sjow is kind of different too lately (e.g. his tank/hellion pushes vs zerg^^)

Great to see a well written positive report! Think we are a tad harsh sometimes on sc2 ^_^ gj. And oohh, I especially like JimLloyd's part!


I find myself confused as to what Incontrols style of play actually is - on his stream he's 99% of the time playing straight up long macro games, however in alot of tournament games he goes for some sort of rush or funky strategy.


Yea i really wish wed see him play straight up games we know he is so good at and showcases on his stream, but it seems (maybe less so in NASL) but at LANS he gets flustered or something he always seems to go for some cheesy funky strategy, not that there is anything wrong with that, but i know he can play a really good straight up style and thats the style i like to see from him. Relying on a pylon not being found isnt something you can rely on consistently.


I probably should have included this in the description, but when iNcontroL does something funky, it is usually very easy to spot why that it is. iNcontroL very rarely goes in for a blind cheese (unless he thinks that his opponent will be weak to it). When he does cheese or do something funky, 99% of the time it is warpgate aggression, and there is usually a reason behind it (such as seeing a zerg take a really late gas or not having a probe scouted inside his enemies base). iNcontroL's style is also one of the best to learn from because it is very easy to emulate, there's a lot of poking but it's not like most of his styles require ungodly micro to pull off.

On June 08 2011 08:25 Diabolegal wrote:
Show nested quote +
Qxc has so many [TvZ] openings designed for aggression


Qxc said on Mr. Bitter's "12 Weeks with the Pros" that he has 2 builds vs Zerg: 2 Rax and Reactor Hellion-Cloaked Banshee. Has that changed? I haven't watched all his TvZ matches in the NASL.


Oh QXC. Those are probably the only two consistently safe builds that he has, but believe me, he has a lot more that he can and will pull out. Such as 3 reaper hellion harass and ghost pushes. Those two are probably his safest builds, but he has a lot more in his arsenal.

On June 08 2011 09:13 nvs. wrote:
Show nested quote +
iNcontroL is one of the kings of strong standard play, as is Sjow. Both of these players showcase extremely safe and solid styles that should be great for incorporating into your macro play.


Really? Who wrote this? -.-

incontrol is definitely a good player but I wouldn't even put him close to the title of "king of strong standard play."


I wrote that! iNcontroL is definitely one of the kings of standard play. The guy popularized three gate expo vs. zerg and plays a standard pressure expand build almost every game. Just because he doesn't get 1st place doesn't mean he's suddenly bad. Other kings of safe play: Tyler, Ret, Haypro, Nada, Sjow, Artosis, Jinro, and the list goes on. I didn't mean the ultimate pro gamer ever at safe play, I just meant someone who is very good at it.
I'm a writer for TeamLiquid, you've probably heard of me
bEwArE
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom121 Posts
June 08 2011 02:18 GMT
#119
NASL really has been awesome, Moon v KiWi was a really good game.
IMMVP #1 Terran
aristarchus
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States652 Posts
June 08 2011 02:24 GMT
#120
On June 08 2011 11:08 Talkerst wrote:
Points does make sense, as I figured that's the way it should be as well. Feel free to tell me Xeris has it wrong in the article or that I misread it. Really confused right now myself.

nasl.tv has the current rankings calculated as points-first, for what it's worth.... and doesn't seem to have any official rules anywhere....
Synwave
Profile Joined July 2009
United States2803 Posts
June 08 2011 02:27 GMT
#121
Cool write up and good way to catch up on the league standings. I haven't been watching most of NASL because their schedule conflicts with mine but I have been following the results and this helps even more with that. TYVM

ps. CatZ is awesome for that I agree
♞Nerdrage is the cause of global warming♞
nvs.
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada3609 Posts
June 08 2011 02:31 GMT
#122
I wrote that! iNcontroL is definitely one of the kings of standard play.


Ok, I guess MLG Columbus just skewed my understanding of his style given the cannon rushing, 4 gating, and 3 gate void ray all-ins that he seemed to be doing whenever I saw him on stream.

My bad. ^^
emythrel
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom2599 Posts
June 08 2011 02:42 GMT
#123
On June 08 2011 09:12 mDuo13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
It’s always a treat to watch Boxer play; he has the best mix of safe and creative play and makes some awesome decisions while playing.

Uhhh... I love to watch the Emperor play as well, but... I wouldn't call most things BoxeR does "safe". If anything, he takes calculated risks as much as anyone.

I find the cutoff lines for playoffs in the OP confusing. As I understand, there are 16 spots in the playoffs -- 10 for division winners, 5 for high-ranked wildcards, and 1 from the open qualifier... so how are all 22 of the players above Cutoff #1 "almost certainly" going to make it in?

Those aside, good thread. Looking forward to NASL's playoffs.


You have simply misunderstood the play-off system.

The top 2 from each group go straight to the finals. the next 20 players overall go to the play-offs where they will be split in to 5 groups of 4, whomever wins their bracket also advances to the finals totalling 15 players in the finals, the last spot is taken by the winner of the open tournament.
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
tuho133
Profile Joined June 2011
120 Posts
June 08 2011 02:42 GMT
#124
Boxer please win to come to US !!
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10340 Posts
June 08 2011 02:46 GMT
#125
Boxer please OWN IDRA! Or put up really close and/or long and/or epic games where you win xD

Boxer vs Idra will be a fitting finale to the NASL :D
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Talkerst
Profile Joined October 2010
124 Posts
June 08 2011 02:52 GMT
#126
On June 08 2011 11:24 aristarchus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 11:08 Talkerst wrote:
Points does make sense, as I figured that's the way it should be as well. Feel free to tell me Xeris has it wrong in the article or that I misread it. Really confused right now myself.

nasl.tv has the current rankings calculated as points-first, for what it's worth.... and doesn't seem to have any official rules anywhere....

Noticed that as well, but that could be a scripting thing, easy to order a list by value but you have to hand place a list with head-to-head. Did you read the article at NASL, wondering if someone else interpreted it different or the same as me.
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
June 08 2011 02:55 GMT
#127
As long as NASL doesn't have any official explanation about tiebreaking procedures, I'm just not going to stress about it.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
Talkerst
Profile Joined October 2010
124 Posts
June 08 2011 03:06 GMT
#128
Okay, it'll all be over in a week any way. Can't wait.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
June 08 2011 03:07 GMT
#129
I found this funny
But obviously there’s a reason for this, right? The Koreans are dealing with lag (like they'd sweep the podium at a NA LAN event), or these aren’t the best Koreans (as if someone like, say, MMA, would beat July), or something else; I'm sure someone will tell us.

When they have swept every single foreign tournametn they have played in with the sole exception of Dreamhack winter.
IEM? 3 Koreans
Dreamhack Invitational? Only Korean in attendance won.
Copenhagen? Korean win.
Whatever that Australian tournament Ace won was called.
MLG? Top 3 Koreans.

So, uhm yes, maybe go a little less heavy on the sarcasm?
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Awesomeness
Profile Joined October 2008
Germany1361 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 03:17:13
June 08 2011 03:13 GMT
#130
The top player by points is SeleCT, an American,[...]


How is Select "American"? He is part of the NA scene sure, but he is still a korean citizien, isn't he?

And yeah I agree with Jinro. Mentioning the missing non-korean players and making fun of people mentioning the missing korean players at the same time is just dumb.
xlord 5:0
SenorChang
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia4730 Posts
June 08 2011 03:17 GMT
#131
Much like the NASL this writeup was very long lol

Can't wait for the finals portion~ Go Boxer!
ლ(╹◡╹ლ)
Qaatar
Profile Joined January 2011
1409 Posts
June 08 2011 03:20 GMT
#132
On June 08 2011 12:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I found this funny
Show nested quote +
But obviously there’s a reason for this, right? The Koreans are dealing with lag (like they'd sweep the podium at a NA LAN event), or these aren’t the best Koreans (as if someone like, say, MMA, would beat July), or something else; I'm sure someone will tell us.

When they have swept every single foreign tournametn they have played in with the sole exception of Dreamhack winter.
IEM? 3 Koreans
Dreamhack Invitational? Only Korean in attendance won.
Copenhagen? Korean win.
Whatever that Australian tournament Ace won was called.
MLG? Top 3 Koreans.

So, uhm yes, maybe go a little less heavy on the sarcasm?


Lol yeah...not to mention that certain foreign players - including one that I'm sure the writer is a huge fan of, judging from the superlatives - and casters themselves acknowledged that latency is an issue sometimes. I don't understand the need for a snide and sarcastic remark either.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
June 08 2011 03:43 GMT
#133
Question: what ever happened with that deposit players had to give to play to make sure they didn't bail? Did they end up taking that out? For the people who are noshows now, wouldn't they lose their deposit? That would be financial incentive to keep playing, no?
ct2299
Profile Joined February 2011
380 Posts
June 08 2011 03:44 GMT
#134
CatZ is awesome, but is 1-7. Quite an oxymoron. hahaha.
Dexington
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada7276 Posts
June 08 2011 03:57 GMT
#135
On June 08 2011 12:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I found this funny
Show nested quote +
But obviously there’s a reason for this, right? The Koreans are dealing with lag (like they'd sweep the podium at a NA LAN event), or these aren’t the best Koreans (as if someone like, say, MMA, would beat July), or something else; I'm sure someone will tell us.

When they have swept every single foreign tournametn they have played in with the sole exception of Dreamhack winter.
IEM? 3 Koreans
Dreamhack Invitational? Only Korean in attendance won.
Copenhagen? Korean win.
Whatever that Australian tournament Ace won was called.
MLG? Top 3 Koreans.

So, uhm yes, maybe go a little less heavy on the sarcasm?


To be fair, at Copenhagen, oGsTheWind got destroyed.
"Man you guys are missing out waving your stats dicks about instead of watching this pvp" - bbm
btxmonty
Profile Joined April 2010
Panama80 Posts
June 08 2011 04:04 GMT
#136
On June 08 2011 12:57 Dexington wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 12:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I found this funny
But obviously there’s a reason for this, right? The Koreans are dealing with lag (like they'd sweep the podium at a NA LAN event), or these aren’t the best Koreans (as if someone like, say, MMA, would beat July), or something else; I'm sure someone will tell us.

When they have swept every single foreign tournametn they have played in with the sole exception of Dreamhack winter.
IEM? 3 Koreans
Dreamhack Invitational? Only Korean in attendance won.
Copenhagen? Korean win.
Whatever that Australian tournament Ace won was called.
MLG? Top 3 Koreans.

So, uhm yes, maybe go a little less heavy on the sarcasm?


To be fair, at Copenhagen, oGsTheWind got destroyed.


The western scene would have turned into a joke if the Korean coaches also dominate in tournaments.
It is only the dead who have seen the end of war - Plato
switch-
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada15 Posts
June 08 2011 04:21 GMT
#137
Excellent write-up. I'm really looking forward to the rest of the tournament

In regards to players quitting the tournament near the end because they haven't done well I think that's very lame and would lessen them in my eyes. From a fans perspective we watch Starcraft for the great games, and even if they don't do well they can still show us great and entertaining play. Also, if they persist in their games and even though they lost every other match if they win the last one it's a redemption for them and a reward for the loyal fans. I really like Grubby and qxc, and even though they haven't been doing well I'd love to see them win their last series.

So player's please don't quit, show great games for the fans, it means a lot to us.
----------
Dexington
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada7276 Posts
June 08 2011 04:21 GMT
#138
On June 08 2011 13:04 btxmonty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 12:57 Dexington wrote:
On June 08 2011 12:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I found this funny
But obviously there’s a reason for this, right? The Koreans are dealing with lag (like they'd sweep the podium at a NA LAN event), or these aren’t the best Koreans (as if someone like, say, MMA, would beat July), or something else; I'm sure someone will tell us.

When they have swept every single foreign tournametn they have played in with the sole exception of Dreamhack winter.
IEM? 3 Koreans
Dreamhack Invitational? Only Korean in attendance won.
Copenhagen? Korean win.
Whatever that Australian tournament Ace won was called.
MLG? Top 3 Koreans.

So, uhm yes, maybe go a little less heavy on the sarcasm?


To be fair, at Copenhagen, oGsTheWind got destroyed.


The western scene would have turned into a joke if the Korean coaches also dominate in tournaments.


Hey, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he was in code S as long as Jinro and dropped down to Code A at the same time as him.
"Man you guys are missing out waving your stats dicks about instead of watching this pvp" - bbm
MisterFred
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2033 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 05:15:57
June 08 2011 05:13 GMT
#139
I was already pumped for NASL finals: sorry MLG it's way more epic because of the prize money and long build up. Now I'm even more pumped.

On June 08 2011 12:20 Qaatar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 12:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I found this funny
But obviously there’s a reason for this, right? The Koreans are dealing with lag (like they'd sweep the podium at a NA LAN event), or these aren’t the best Koreans (as if someone like, say, MMA, would beat July), or something else; I'm sure someone will tell us.

When they have swept every single foreign tournametn they have played in with the sole exception of Dreamhack winter.
IEM? 3 Koreans
Dreamhack Invitational? Only Korean in attendance won.
Copenhagen? Korean win.
Whatever that Australian tournament Ace won was called.
MLG? Top 3 Koreans.

So, uhm yes, maybe go a little less heavy on the sarcasm?


Lol yeah...not to mention that certain foreign players - including one that I'm sure the writer is a huge fan of, judging from the superlatives - and casters themselves acknowledged that latency is an issue sometimes. I don't understand the need for a snide and sarcastic remark either.


I can't tell if Jinro knows he and the authors agree completely . I'm going to assume yes.
"The victor? Not the highest scoring, nor the best strategist, nor the best tactitian. The victor was he that was closest to the Tao of FFA." -.Praetor
ZergMaestro
Profile Joined January 2011
United States169 Posts
June 08 2011 05:26 GMT
#140
Wait you mean group play doesn't go on forever?


I hope boxer wins. Korean supremacy fo sho.
Ma Jae Yoon #1. The ONLY Maestro. Effort.
DDie
Profile Joined April 2010
Brazil2369 Posts
June 08 2011 05:44 GMT
#141
Boxer 2-0 Idra.


Idra and MC meet at the playoffs, sounds good?
''Television! Teacher, mother, secret lover.''
Mutedhorn
Profile Joined July 2010
United States14 Posts
June 08 2011 06:09 GMT
#142
Very excited to see Squirtle and Ace play.

Looks like most of the Protoss are all clumped together in the middle of the rankings.
SxYSpAz
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1451 Posts
June 08 2011 06:16 GMT
#143
o good, even after those walkovers, my favorite protoss can still go to the finals. Whitera will get an autospot in the finals, and nani will crush the playoffs! yay!

and idra will continue to bitch about imbalance while turning a blind eye to the amount of zergs in position to make playoffs. as well as the gsl super tourney. i mean gotz damn, zergs be crushin'
Sacro
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway237 Posts
June 08 2011 06:47 GMT
#144
I bought a season pass early, but the wealth of matches made it really hard to watch them all along with gsl, tsl, work and other activities in the sparetime, the groups look really good now near the end and i will be watching the playoffs for sure.

This situation report helped a lot to get up to date and i might watch some of the "For fun" matches listed

Any other games than those people would recommend watching? (haven't seen any games since week 2 or so)
Sarang
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia2363 Posts
June 08 2011 06:52 GMT
#145
FINALLY - a writeup on Sc2 which makes me think the writers actually like the game.

Really good write up. My only complaint is there were a lot of misused apostrophes xD (Muta's)

But that aside, it's really great to see a positive write up regarding a sc2 event. Excellent job to all involved.
"Killer helped me feel better before coming to the arena. He told me to say that." - Bomber
iNViCiOUZ
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany364 Posts
June 08 2011 06:52 GMT
#146
We’ve seen IdrA (low intensity, high game knowledge), TotalBiscuit (high intensity, lower game knowledge), CatsPajamas (giant beard), Mr. Bitter (tiny beard), Khaldor (German), Xeris (not German), and Diggity (shirt and tie!).


lol'd so hard :D

Really really nice writeup
skullhoof
Profile Joined December 2010
Korea (North)835 Posts
June 08 2011 07:07 GMT
#147
Boxer is so back.
Polt was right about luck
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
June 08 2011 07:08 GMT
#148
Wow you put a lot into this post and I really appreciate your contribution! I am so glad I got a nasl pass; will be watching the vods you recommended for sure!
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Mindtwist
Profile Joined December 2010
Lithuania108 Posts
June 08 2011 07:19 GMT
#149
Grubby 0-8 But I still love you brohan!

Nice writeup
Jakalo
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Latvia2350 Posts
June 08 2011 07:20 GMT
#150
Go Morrow !
Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be.
Cyberpansy
Profile Joined March 2011
United States24 Posts
June 08 2011 07:31 GMT
#151
I can't tell you how much this article helped sort through the morass of confusion that is the playoffs schedule. Fantastic writeup on the games, players and content. I kept feeling like I really needed a "what-if scenario" layout for understanding the stakes of this last week, and I am so happy that Team Liquid came through!
nepeta
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
1872 Posts
June 08 2011 07:35 GMT
#152
Could I prevail upon someone to name and shame some quitters? A little drama and justice are always a good thing for a tournament's exposure :p
Broodwar AI :) http://sscaitournament.com http://www.starcraftai.com/wiki/Main_Page
DOOMy0
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark85 Posts
June 08 2011 07:40 GMT
#153
I tuned in to the NASL EU rebroadcast one day a few weeks back, excited to see how the tournament and stream production was set up, and sadly incontrol and gretorp weren't talking about the game (can't remember the opponents) at all, not serious whatsoever, joking and in fact talking about anything but the game. It seemed very unprofessional and I haven't really watched since.

Might be watching in the later stages of the playoffs again, who knows... nice writeup, though
Aeneous
Profile Joined November 2010
United States27 Posts
June 08 2011 07:41 GMT
#154
This is as complicated as the BCS bowl system. But, I wouldn't change a thing .
sandyph
Profile Joined September 2010
Indonesia1640 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 08:22:45
June 08 2011 08:20 GMT
#155
SeleCT, an American


hate to break it to you, but (T)SeleCT

anyway, I hope that there'll be some big name coming to the open tournament
Put quote here for readability
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
June 08 2011 08:21 GMT
#156
Great write-up Motbob.

The top 16 are bound to be insane.
confusedcrib
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1307 Posts
June 08 2011 08:23 GMT
#157
On June 08 2011 17:20 sandyph wrote:
Show nested quote +
SeleCT, an American


hate to break it to you, but (T)SeleCT


We actually discussed this very fact before publishing the article, so you're not "breaking it to us," as much as I hate to break it to you. Select has been referring to himself as an American for the last few years, so we decided tor refer to him as such.
I'm a writer for TeamLiquid, you've probably heard of me
sandyph
Profile Joined September 2010
Indonesia1640 Posts
June 08 2011 08:30 GMT
#158
On June 08 2011 17:23 confusedcrib wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 17:20 sandyph wrote:
SeleCT, an American


hate to break it to you, but (T)SeleCT


We actually discussed this very fact before publishing the article, so you're not "breaking it to us," as much as I hate to break it to you. Select has been referring to himself as an American for the last few years, so we decided tor refer to him as such.


heh, didnt know that, cool then
though its sound as strange as saying Huk is an American imho
Put quote here for readability
FreedonNadd
Profile Joined August 2010
Austria573 Posts
June 08 2011 08:31 GMT
#159
miniWheat is missing ! In a few years, he will rule the SC2 scene.
Some people wear Superman pajamas, but Superman has Day[9] pajamas.
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
June 08 2011 08:43 GMT
#160
If a player pulls out like Painuser I hope every game he's played so far is reset to an auto 2-0 loss. It seems like he's only won 2 games so it isn't a major problem, but in principle that's the most fair thing imo.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
hefty
Profile Joined January 2005
Denmark555 Posts
June 08 2011 08:52 GMT
#161
On June 08 2011 14:13 MisterFred wrote:
I was already pumped for NASL finals: sorry MLG it's way more epic because of the prize money and long build up. Now I'm even more pumped.

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 08 2011 12:20 Qaatar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 12:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I found this funny
But obviously there’s a reason for this, right? The Koreans are dealing with lag (like they'd sweep the podium at a NA LAN event), or these aren’t the best Koreans (as if someone like, say, MMA, would beat July), or something else; I'm sure someone will tell us.

When they have swept every single foreign tournametn they have played in with the sole exception of Dreamhack winter.
IEM? 3 Koreans
Dreamhack Invitational? Only Korean in attendance won.
Copenhagen? Korean win.
Whatever that Australian tournament Ace won was called.
MLG? Top 3 Koreans.

So, uhm yes, maybe go a little less heavy on the sarcasm?


Lol yeah...not to mention that certain foreign players - including one that I'm sure the writer is a huge fan of, judging from the superlatives - and casters themselves acknowledged that latency is an issue sometimes. I don't understand the need for a snide and sarcastic remark either.


I can't tell if Jinro knows he and the authors agree completely . I'm going to assume yes.


But they don't? This is how I understood this:

Writer goes: "Koreans are good but not great/unbeatable, but I'm sure someone will tell us it is because of the lag etc", implying that people will claim koreans are better than these results suggest.
Jinro goes: "They won everything except one LAN tourney", implying that they really are better than these results suggest when not hindered by circumstances (whether that be lag or something else).

What I would like to ask Jinro, is if he means that lag is the reason koreans "underperform" here, if that really is what he is implying.



Personally I believe the koreans competing are for the most part quite a lot better than the majority of foreigners, although a few foreigners seems to be close to even the best koreans in skill level.

I were excited for the NASL finals, but htis made me stoked!
Lizarb
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark307 Posts
June 08 2011 09:01 GMT
#162
I'm so hyped for NASL, been following it alot and only missed some last week because of work and MLG.

Keep up the good work!
Only thing I know is that I know nothing.
motiust
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia97 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 09:22:24
June 08 2011 09:11 GMT
#163
On June 08 2011 07:55 emythrel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 07:53 motiust wrote:
The NASL production sux, it is si bad that if is not because of Geoff I would of demand my money back!

It was basically unwatchable, too slow, just a rippoff alround. I could of just watch free stream and that still lags at times ffs, if you can't afford the bandwidth for 1040p, don't market yourself like so.

I'm so pissed off evenever I hear NASL :O


I've watched every single broadcast of NASL since week 1, since week 2 I have experienced close to 0 lag....... the problem lies not with NASL's upload but JTV's routing..... if you are going to complain at least have an informed opinion.


Mate, look at this problem in a different angle.
Justin.tv is WELL KNOWN for their performance problem prior to NASL, just google justin.tv and lag together you'll see...

NASL TOOK MY MONEY NOT JUSTIN.tv, I BLAME NASL for making this bad business decision which severely effected my viewing experience, to blame Justin.tv is just stupid and ill informed.

They had diverted all funds into price pool thinking that it would be an effective marketing campaign vs GSL and choose to go with a cheap option with Justin.tv but they are too stupid to understand it would be fkn ineffective if the viewer can't even watch their games!!

You see why im so angry? im not stingy when it comes to starcraft and pc but when i felt like i got ripped off by some unprofessional inexperience individuals who NFI what to do BUT charges you money with false advertising promise, it makes me feel stupid and therefore i'm pissed off.




Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
June 08 2011 09:11 GMT
#164
CatsPajamas (giant beard), Mr. Bitter (tiny beard), Khaldor (German), Xeris (not German), and Diggity (shirt and tie!

???

what? )
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
cYaN
Profile Joined May 2004
Norway3322 Posts
June 08 2011 09:20 GMT
#165
Hmm, curious about point 8 and 9 in those closing thoughts (context and quitters). Clearly very important. Incontrol talked time and time again about "telling the story" pre-nasl on sotg etc but nasl fails to do so. And I can't imagine there wasn't a discussion when this format was concocted about the dangers of people quitting midway.

Nasl seemed strangely unprepared for this. Or maybe they thought the $200 (or whatever it was) they could fine people would be enough to keep them in line? I really hope there's a huge discussion going on inside the nasl organization about season 2 at the moment. About the format, possible changes and how to work with it and present it better.
emythrel
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom2599 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 12:17:08
June 08 2011 12:16 GMT
#166
On June 08 2011 15:52 Sarang wrote:
FINALLY - a writeup on Sc2 which makes me think the writers actually like the game.

Really good write up. My only complaint is there were a lot of misused apostrophes xD (Muta's)

But that aside, it's really great to see a positive write up regarding a sc2 event. Excellent job to all involved.


Muta's is a contraction therefore the apostrophe is perfectly valid, at least that's that I learned in school all those years ago..... I'll make sure to leave it out next time ;p
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
zeenix1
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden89 Posts
June 08 2011 12:20 GMT
#167
The top player by points is SeleCT, an American


Sure, tell yourself that.. and TLO is swedish? Jinro Korean?
Wekapedia
Profile Joined June 2010
Hungary77 Posts
June 08 2011 12:59 GMT
#168
On June 08 2011 17:23 confusedcrib wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 17:20 sandyph wrote:
SeleCT, an American


hate to break it to you, but (T)SeleCT


We actually discussed this very fact before publishing the article, so you're not "breaking it to us," as much as I hate to break it to you. Select has been referring to himself as an American for the last few years, so we decided tor refer to him as such.

From the interviews heard with him, he can barely even speak english.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 13:11:21
June 08 2011 13:09 GMT
#169
On June 08 2011 17:52 hefty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 14:13 MisterFred wrote:
I was already pumped for NASL finals: sorry MLG it's way more epic because of the prize money and long build up. Now I'm even more pumped.

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 08 2011 12:20 Qaatar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 12:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I found this funny
But obviously there’s a reason for this, right? The Koreans are dealing with lag (like they'd sweep the podium at a NA LAN event), or these aren’t the best Koreans (as if someone like, say, MMA, would beat July), or something else; I'm sure someone will tell us.

When they have swept every single foreign tournametn they have played in with the sole exception of Dreamhack winter.
IEM? 3 Koreans
Dreamhack Invitational? Only Korean in attendance won.
Copenhagen? Korean win.
Whatever that Australian tournament Ace won was called.
MLG? Top 3 Koreans.

So, uhm yes, maybe go a little less heavy on the sarcasm?


Lol yeah...not to mention that certain foreign players - including one that I'm sure the writer is a huge fan of, judging from the superlatives - and casters themselves acknowledged that latency is an issue sometimes. I don't understand the need for a snide and sarcastic remark either.


I can't tell if Jinro knows he and the authors agree completely . I'm going to assume yes.


But they don't? This is how I understood this:

Writer goes: "Koreans are good but not great/unbeatable, but I'm sure someone will tell us it is because of the lag etc", implying that people will claim koreans are better than these results suggest.
Jinro goes: "They won everything except one LAN tourney", implying that they really are better than these results suggest when not hindered by circumstances (whether that be lag or something else).

What I would like to ask Jinro, is if he means that lag is the reason koreans "underperform" here, if that really is what he is implying.



Personally I believe the koreans competing are for the most part quite a lot better than the majority of foreigners, although a few foreigners seems to be close to even the best koreans in skill level.

I were excited for the NASL finals, but htis made me stoked!

The fact that its at 5-9 am in the morning also plays a role, but really all Im saying is that its a very poorly choosen subject for sarcasm when it actually has been the case.

I dunno, just the last part 'Im sure someone will tell us' made it seem like he was sarcastically dismissing all those excuses oO

On June 08 2011 21:59 Wekapedia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 17:23 confusedcrib wrote:
On June 08 2011 17:20 sandyph wrote:
SeleCT, an American


hate to break it to you, but (T)SeleCT


We actually discussed this very fact before publishing the article, so you're not "breaking it to us," as much as I hate to break it to you. Select has been referring to himself as an American for the last few years, so we decided tor refer to him as such.

From the interviews heard with him, he can barely even speak english.

He speaks English fine, tho it was my understanding that he choose to be listed in TLPD under the Korean flag so that makes the above quoted statement a bit confusing regardless.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Jampackedeon
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2053 Posts
June 08 2011 14:12 GMT
#170
While it would add more complications, I think the idea of dropping folks out of the bottom of the league makes a lot of sense and would help everyone understand the consequences of wins/losses in the league.

Also, Gretorp is one of my favorite casters and I hope the player pool gets even better next season (1st season was very solid, hard to predict folks like QXC and Painuser will go diving off a cliff like they did).All in all, it's been great so far, and production has really stepped up.

Hoping for great playoffs and an even better second season!
MisterFred
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2033 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 14:20:08
June 08 2011 14:14 GMT
#171
On June 08 2011 22:09 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 17:52 hefty wrote:
On June 08 2011 14:13 MisterFred wrote:
I was already pumped for NASL finals: sorry MLG it's way more epic because of the prize money and long build up. Now I'm even more pumped.

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 08 2011 12:20 Qaatar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 12:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I found this funny
But obviously there’s a reason for this, right? The Koreans are dealing with lag (like they'd sweep the podium at a NA LAN event), or these aren’t the best Koreans (as if someone like, say, MMA, would beat July), or something else; I'm sure someone will tell us.

When they have swept every single foreign tournametn they have played in with the sole exception of Dreamhack winter.
IEM? 3 Koreans
Dreamhack Invitational? Only Korean in attendance won.
Copenhagen? Korean win.
Whatever that Australian tournament Ace won was called.
MLG? Top 3 Koreans.

So, uhm yes, maybe go a little less heavy on the sarcasm?


Lol yeah...not to mention that certain foreign players - including one that I'm sure the writer is a huge fan of, judging from the superlatives - and casters themselves acknowledged that latency is an issue sometimes. I don't understand the need for a snide and sarcastic remark either.


I can't tell if Jinro knows he and the authors agree completely . I'm going to assume yes.


But they don't? This is how I understood this:

Writer goes: "Koreans are good but not great/unbeatable, but I'm sure someone will tell us it is because of the lag etc", implying that people will claim koreans are better than these results suggest.
Jinro goes: "They won everything except one LAN tourney", implying that they really are better than these results suggest when not hindered by circumstances (whether that be lag or something else).

What I would like to ask Jinro, is if he means that lag is the reason koreans "underperform" here, if that really is what he is implying.



Personally I believe the koreans competing are for the most part quite a lot better than the majority of foreigners, although a few foreigners seems to be close to even the best koreans in skill level.

I were excited for the NASL finals, but htis made me stoked!

The fact that its at 5-9 am in the morning also plays a role, but really all Im saying is that its a very poorly choosen subject for sarcasm when it actually has been the case.

I dunno, just the last part 'Im sure someone will tell us' made it seem like he was sarcastically dismissing all those excuses oO



<3! 5-9 in the morning. Sheesh! Gamer hours I guess. Anyway, sorry for not also including Jinro fighting! in my earlier response. Also, please forgive my appreciation of the easter island cheerfuls.

Think you'll be applying for the next NASL?
"The victor? Not the highest scoring, nor the best strategist, nor the best tactitian. The victor was he that was closest to the Tao of FFA." -.Praetor
tritonice
Profile Joined November 2010
United States119 Posts
June 08 2011 14:49 GMT
#172
miniWHEAT is the JaeDong of the future. Unless he plays Terran (Flash!).....

I agree with all comments on the casters. I think Diggity should get some more reps, he is good. TotalBiscuit is a great change of pace.
Venerac
Profile Joined December 2010
United States201 Posts
June 08 2011 17:07 GMT
#173
Here's to hoping I get to take a picture with SLAYERS FREAKIN BOXERRRR
Proud listener of "Starcast: The Starcraft Podcast". SlayerS_BoxeR//White-Ra//djWHEAT <3<3
vpatrickd
Profile Joined November 2010
Indonesia279 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 17:50:01
June 08 2011 17:45 GMT
#174
The top player by points is SeleCT, an American

Oh really? Lol.. He's not american..
He's just in America..

Sure, tell yourself that.. and TLO is swedish? Jinro Korean?

This! +1
emythrel
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom2599 Posts
June 08 2011 18:31 GMT
#175
On June 09 2011 02:45 vpatrickd wrote:
Show nested quote +
The top player by points is SeleCT, an American

Oh really? Lol.. He's not american..
He's just in America..

Show nested quote +
Sure, tell yourself that.. and TLO is swedish? Jinro Korean?

This! +1


You are the 12th person to point this out, Select has referred to himself as American for a few years and we discussed this before posting the article and decided we would call him American on the grounds of adopted citizenship.... he's been living in the US for long enough that he can be considered a naturalized American ;p
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
emythrel
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom2599 Posts
June 08 2011 18:35 GMT
#176
On June 08 2011 11:55 motbob wrote:
As long as NASL doesn't have any official explanation about tiebreaking procedures, I'm just not going to stress about it.


They do have official rules btw Motmob, it goes as follows:

Win-Loss
Points (games won minus games lost)
Head to head

Therefore if two players have the same win-loss, same points then whomever won their group match advances. It might be head to head then points, as i heard something the other night that made me go "Huh? I though it was the other way around" but those are the three things they use for tie breaks
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
ShatterZer0
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1843 Posts
June 08 2011 19:30 GMT
#177
On June 08 2011 05:37 Senx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 05:26 Beyonder wrote:
iNcontroL is one of the kings of strong standard play, as is Sjow. Both of these players showcase extremely safe and solid styles that should be great for incorporating into your macro play. iNcontrol tends to be very solid in his decision making, showing you great places to hide pylons and when are good timings to poke out with your army. Sjow is very solid in his macro and decision making as well, a great player to learn proper army control and movement from. Both of these players should teach some great timings to poke and prod at your opponent


Doesnt inc do a lot of funky stuff? His way is mindgames, not necessarily standard games :o (e.g. his silly stuff vs losira).. And sjow is kind of different too lately (e.g. his tank/hellion pushes vs zerg^^)

Great to see a well written positive report! Think we are a tad harsh sometimes on sc2 ^_^ gj. And oohh, I especially like JimLloyd's part!


I find myself confused as to what Incontrols style of play actually is - on his stream he's 99% of the time playing straight up long macro games, however in alot of tournament games he goes for some sort of rush or funky strategy.


A time to live.
mDuo13
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States307 Posts
June 08 2011 20:06 GMT
#178
On June 08 2011 11:42 emythrel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 09:12 mDuo13 wrote:
It’s always a treat to watch Boxer play; he has the best mix of safe and creative play and makes some awesome decisions while playing.

Uhhh... I love to watch the Emperor play as well, but... I wouldn't call most things BoxeR does "safe". If anything, he takes calculated risks as much as anyone.

I find the cutoff lines for playoffs in the OP confusing. As I understand, there are 16 spots in the playoffs -- 10 for division winners, 5 for high-ranked wildcards, and 1 from the open qualifier... so how are all 22 of the players above Cutoff #1 "almost certainly" going to make it in?

Those aside, good thread. Looking forward to NASL's playoffs.


You have simply misunderstood the play-off system.

The top 2 from each group go straight to the finals. the next 20 players overall go to the play-offs where they will be split in to 5 groups of 4, whomever wins their bracket also advances to the finals totalling 15 players in the finals, the last spot is taken by the winner of the open tournament.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. Yeah, I didn't realize there was a separate playoff system between division winners and the final 16.
Valckrie
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom533 Posts
June 08 2011 20:48 GMT
#179
Nice writeup overall but, in the first section of recommended games, I thought that the word "creative" was used a bit too much. Unfortunately I haven't seen the vods or the games, and I'm sure the ones he picked are probably a good watch, but I started to doubt that they were all "creative" once the word had been used 10 or so times.
Fear is a 4 letter word. Why be afraid?
Gigaudas
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Sweden1213 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 20:57:10
June 08 2011 20:55 GMT
#180
Naniwa stripped of his chances in NASL because the admins screwed up Sad.

EDIT: Oh, nvm, didn't realize there were play-offs.
I
Ghad
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway2551 Posts
June 08 2011 21:18 GMT
#181
The quality of the written content on Tl.net is just mindboggling. Sorry to see that TLAF-Liquid is having such a hard time following up.
forgottendreams: One underage girl, two drunk guys, one gogo dancer and starcraft 2. Apparently just another day in Europe.
emythrel
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom2599 Posts
June 08 2011 22:06 GMT
#182
On June 09 2011 05:48 Valckrie wrote:
Nice writeup overall but, in the first section of recommended games, I thought that the word "creative" was used a bit too much. Unfortunately I haven't seen the vods or the games, and I'm sure the ones he picked are probably a good watch, but I started to doubt that they were all "creative" once the word had been used 10 or so times.


That section is a preview of this week, not a review of last week.... ;p
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
JimLloyd
Profile Joined October 2010
United States93 Posts
June 09 2011 00:50 GMT
#183
To Jinro, et. al.:

I didn’t mean to dismiss the lag / time zone issues in my post, only those people who seem to reflexively dismiss any result where a foreigner beats a Korean, attributing it to some procedural factor rather than the substance of the games.* Obviously those issues are very real, and I did not mean to minimize the concerns that you, for example, explained in your illuminating post after the first round of TSL3. It was a a little dig at the people who post immediately upon the result’s announcement exactly why the Korean lost, and it couldn’t possibly have been because he was outplayed. We know those people exist, and I wanted to poke them a little.

Likewise, there’s another group of people who reflexively proclaim the triumph of the foreigner scene and the demise of Korean Starcraft dominance any time a Korean loses. My post was also meant to wind them up, and, in a sense, myself. I'm a naive optimist when it comes to the foreigner scene -- I’m always psyching myself up for the next upset that I just know is going to happen this time! And so when my hopes, as usual, came crashing down at MLG Columbus ("crashing down" in the form of some beautiful play from undeniably fantastic players -- no ill will from me towards the Korean invites), I put in the other stuff, too.

Yes, there was sarcasm there, but my portion of the coverage was a bit more opinion-oriented than the others, and Team Liquid often publishes opinionated stuff. I meant no disrespect to the players or anyone else.

Jim

*I think this is generalizable to all of Starcraft -- the idea that because we all just know that player X is better than player Y, so if player Y beats player X, it must be because of lag, or cheese, or some flaw in the game that must be fixed / patched out / &c.
tadL
Profile Joined September 2010
Croatia679 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-09 01:24:58
June 09 2011 01:22 GMT
#184
Plz stop attacking confusedcrib for what he wrote, its still an US side, so ofc US players get more hyped. But everybody in europe knows that qxc just 2rax bunkerrushs against zerg for example. But i can live with that, i mean team liquid is the community platform for sc2 and if they consider to be that pro US players than its how it is.

Anyway nice read but some facts i dont understand, qxz is just an example but ok.

its an invite tournament and most invites are done cause of popularity and not skill. but this will also never change. so gl hf to all and plz get for next season more qualifier slots. tsl included
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33388 Posts
June 09 2011 06:50 GMT
#185
Don't mind Jinro, he's very protective of his colleagues
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-10 03:36:22
June 09 2011 07:10 GMT
#186
Updated for Day9-2
Four possible outcomes for NASL players post-season:
  1. Automatic spot into the Grand Finals at Ontario - 2 per division (10 players)
  2. Participate in Week 10 playoffs for the next 20 ranked players (20 players)
  3. Survive for next season for the next 4 players (4 players)*
  4. Bottom 16 players are eliminated from NASL (16 players)
    *Top 34 players move onto next NASL season.

[image loading]

1. Players that are locked for the Grand Finals at Ontario, July 8-10: (7/50)
+ Show Spoiler +
  • (Z)July
  • (P)Squirtle
  • (T)SeleCT
  • (T)Strelok
  • (Z)Moon
  • (Z)Sheth
  • (P)White-Ra


1.5 Players that either will get an automatic spot or into the playoffs: (6/50)
+ Show Spoiler +
  • ONE of (Z)Ret / (P)Ace
  • TWO of (T)BoxeR / (Z)Sen / (T)IdrA / (Z)Zenio


2. Players mathematically guaranteed entering into week 10 playoffs: (16/50)
+ Show Spoiler +
  • (Z)MorroW
  • (P)KiWiKaKi
  • (T)Fenix
  • (P)MC
  • (P)NaNiwa
  • (P)HasuObs
  • (T)NaDa
  • (P)Axslav
  • (T)SjoW
  • (Z)DarKFoRcE
  • (P)CrunCher
  • (T)TLO
  • (P)MaNa
  • (P)TT1
  • (P)Socke
  • (Z)MoMaN


2.5 Will not be eliminated: (1/50)
+ Show Spoiler +
  • (P)iNcontroL 4-5 (-4pt)


3. Anywhere from playoffs to elimination: (5/50)
+ Show Spoiler +
  • (T)Stalife 3-5 (-2pt)
  • (T)dde 3-5 (-5pt)
  • (T)ClouD 3-5 (-5pt)
  • (Z)SLush 3-5 (-6pt)
  • (T)BRAT_OK 3-5 (-6pt)


3.5. At best stays for next season: (6/50)
+ Show Spoiler +
  • (T)Ensnare 3-6 (-4pt)
  • (P)RainBOw 3-6 (-5pt)
  • (Z)ViBE 3-6 (-6pt)
  • (Z)mOOnGLaDe 2-6 (-5pt)
  • (Z)HayprO 2-6 (-6pt)
  • (P)Tyler 2-6 (-6pt)


4. Players mathematically eliminated from NASL: (8/50)
+ Show Spoiler +
  • (T)KawaiiRice
  • (T)GoOdy
  • (T)Drewbie
  • (Z)CatZ
  • (Z)Machine
  • (P)Grubby
  • (P)Artosis
  • (T)qxc
  • (T)PainUser

Thank God and gunrun.
stalife
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada1222 Posts
June 09 2011 07:58 GMT
#187
What`s interesting is that a player may not make the playoffs even with 4 wins...It really comes down to the points. In my case.. if I win vs BRAT_OK, I secure myself a spot in the playoffs, if not, I will not make the playoffs, but probably be safe for season 2. Brat_OK`s case is weird since he may not make the playoffs even with a 2-0 victory over me.
www.memoryexpress.com
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
June 09 2011 08:19 GMT
#188
On June 09 2011 16:58 stalife wrote:
What`s interesting is that a player may not make the playoffs even with 4 wins...It really comes down to the points. In my case.. if I win vs BRAT_OK, I secure myself a spot in the playoffs, if not, I will not make the playoffs, but probably be safe for season 2. Brat_OK`s case is weird since he may not make the playoffs even with a 2-0 victory over me.


You took a game off MC, Ret, and Hasuobs, so you certainly deserves to control your own destiny.

I'm rooting for you! Good luck tommorow, stalife!
Thank God and gunrun.
natebreen
Profile Joined June 2011
United States184 Posts
June 09 2011 13:27 GMT
#189
Sheth is so funny.

Dude makes me happy watching him be happy.
speakerbox
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada453 Posts
June 09 2011 17:32 GMT
#190
I feel like NASL started years ago.. longest tournament of all time
twin anchors houseboats
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4728 Posts
June 09 2011 17:55 GMT
#191
Nice read, cleared the picture a bot for me.
Pathetic Greta hater.
Cirqueenflex
Profile Joined October 2010
499 Posts
June 09 2011 20:03 GMT
#192
lets be honest, last week wasn't watched least because of the many walkovers and bad games, but because the stream lagged so hard the entire week ppl couldnt just couldnt watch
i would have watched if there would have been a working stream
Give a man a fire, you keep him warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.
boyle
Profile Joined March 2011
United States134 Posts
June 09 2011 22:34 GMT
#193
thanks for the write up... this week the nasl format should shine.
darkpwnage
Profile Joined May 2011
Lebanon18 Posts
June 10 2011 03:18 GMT
#194
Wow these games are really interesting and Im looking foward to watching them. Much Appreciate the workk put into this article
Muffinman53
Profile Joined November 2010
571 Posts
June 10 2011 11:49 GMT
#195
Sick write-up. Thanks so much :D
NHydro
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway6 Posts
June 11 2011 13:03 GMT
#196
Thanks for the write-up. Actually made me start watching NASL again.
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