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On May 26 2010 08:18 Vei wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2010 07:29 ghrur wrote:On May 25 2010 18:52 Vei wrote:
This was absolutely ridiculous, wow. Life sentence for betting? I would love to see a video from the gamers' perspective, on their living conditions and etc. Talking about their living conditions to the old progamers like Kingdom, Ra, Boxer, and Yellow? Are you kidding? those guys had it MUCH worse than the modern day progamers. Ever heard of the stories of XellOs who would use his winnings to support his team? Yeah, they did that instead of spending money from match-rigging on stuff like Gucci and whores. >_> These new progamers have basically nothing to say about their conditions compared to the old progamers. I'm sure you're right but I'd still like to hear the facts from their side. That said, the two progamers who talked at the end were really good (who was the guy who wasn't Boxer?)... the three main guys I thought were absolutely pathetic. They spent 30 minutes just complaining, insulting, and raging on the people who fixed (and I assume they were bleeping out sAviOrs name or something?), all the while one of them is too fucking fat to put down the fork for 40 god damn minutes to do a TV show he's being paid for -- disgusting. The way Boxer and the other gamer spoke, briefly, expressing their disappointment but focusing more on the fans and regaining their trust, was much more commendable than the childish derision the three hosts were partaking for THIRTY minutes. To be fair though, at one point the fat guy said he'd give him a slap if he was next to him and the flannel'd guy said something like only a slap? to which he commendably responded, if not a slap what else is there? That guy at least had some sort of level-headedness to it, realizing that yes they were completely dishonorable and the punishment they will receive is the lack of respect from any of their peers; meanwhile the flannel guy was just straight going on about life sentences, tattoos across the face, and I'm sure in his mind he was wishing for physical injury.
Should have stopped reading at "who was the guy who wasn't boxer".
You know sometimes it's best to shut up when you have nothing but garbage to post.
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Boxer looked fifferent from his Liquipedia profile pic. Just saying, no need for insults plz.
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You said it beautifully. Allow me to quote this again.
On May 26 2010 09:02 VerticalHorizon wrote:Firstly, thank you SO MUCH to the translators. I'm Korean-American so I didn't need the translations but they were still entertaining and it's great to have the video in the first place (I'm noob at finding Korean shows). Secondly, I don't understand why so many people are hating on the commentators for being "overly dramatic." I see that there are a few people who don't even recognize the commentators or iloveoov lol. As a fan of SC since 1998, let me just tell you guys that these commentators have every right to be as upset as they are. The guy on the left, Kim Carrier, and the guy in the middle, Um Jaekyung the Overlord, are fucking historical ICONS in the course of professional gaming, as big in their own way as any of the progamers who have come and gone. Kim Carrier's rational, interesting analysis of the gameflow, Um Jaekyung's plethora of facts/data/interesting trivia... these are the hallmarks of SC commentating. They were among the FIRST EVER to commentate and they worked as hard as anyone in building the industry today. Also, this whole show is supposed to have the informal, chatting-among-friends type vibe. THey're not just playing for the camera, they're chilling with each other. You realize that those three in there have known each other through SC for a DECADE now... of course they will be dramatic and feel free to release some of their more honest, hidden emotions. When I get pissed about something that's dear to me and vent to my friends, I know that I don't have to restrain myself because they understand, they are willing to listen. Through this episode, they let us see them as not just commentators, but true fans and supporters of E-sports who were venting to each other. Ease up with the hate. These guys have done more for the industry than you can ever know, especially you young fans. **************** Another thing I don't understand in this thread is how everyone is talking about how it's "understandable" that these guys took some money to throw matches. Uh... what? Some of you have a seriously fucked up moral compass if you think that betraying your fans, your supporters, and tarnishing the integrity of your profession is justifiable if you're poor enough. Yes, these guys DO have it easier than 10 years ago. You wanna know about 4Union living in a shittyass apt scrounging for sponsorships and living day by day, never knowing when they'd have to lose the dream? What about Xellos paying out of pocket for the youngins on his team, knowing that every victory he won as the Perfect Terran was LITERALLY feeding the other kids on his team? What about the satisfaction and the glory of SKTelecom T1, when all of us cheered because Boxer FINALLY got the sponsorship he deserved from a corporation as huge and impressive as SKT? Okay, so these young gamers of today STILL have it pretty hard. But guess what... iloveoov said it best in this video: Show nested quote +oov said:
As a Progamer, it's not about the law but more about morality. It's more about ethics... Dude, if you can't handle the shitty living conditions of being a C-teamer struggling to win your license or something... don't fucking do it. Just go to college or get a job at McDonald's and have a nice, stable life. Progaming is not like selling dope in the hood or becoming a child soldier in Cambodia. In those cases, many people are born into an environment which gives them no choice. These kids have a CHOICE not to lead this life, no one is forcing some ten-year-old kid to become a progamer. For him to bitch about his poverty and throw matches to make an extra few grand a year is RETARDED because he shouldn't be a progamer if he can't handle the conditions. I mean... seriously? You guys are getting mad the commentators for bitching out these match-fixers because you sympathize with their living conditions? Jeez, if the living conditions were a huge problem, they could either QUIT BEING A PROGAMER or take some POSITIVE action like a progamers' union or something. Match fixing should never be justified by poverty because, as oov said, it's not about legality, it's about ETHICS. It's about what is ultimately RIGHT and WRONG and betraying the trust of people who ADORE you for your gaming skills, fucking over an industry in its infancy that tons of people worked together to build, and in general LYING to everyone who is watching you on TV is just plain WRONG.************* Finally, gonna end this post with a final quote by oov because it just shows what a fucking BALLER Boxer is. Show nested quote +oov said
And because I had Boxer who didn't even come close to the borders of ethics, I got to watch him and learn from him. This exemplifies the true professional athlete for me. Someone who loves the game so goddamn much that they don't even stray NEAR the lines of ethics, they don't even go NEAR that gray area between right and wrong. Because sports, in its ideal form, IS pure. It's competition and brilliance in its rawest, most untainted form. Boxer <3
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are you guys serious? the political situation is gonna burst between north and south korea and people are "sad" and "angry" because of match fixing?...the timing of this video is very bad.
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thank you for the subs. i felt really betrayed when i found out about the scandal and i can get where all these commentaries and opinions are coming from i hope those who have to be punished are punished, and those who were fans of the Players involved i hope you can find forgiveness and remember the best of those who have done the worst to you.... E sports and sc1 will go on as Boxer said "it is because of the fans i found a way" .. cheer up there are still more matches that will amaze and entertain you..
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After watching this I had a ton of thoughts running through my head. I had so much to say yet I didn't know how to express myself. It just appals me that people throw games, turn their backs against their fans, supporters and the community. It appals me even more that some people think that's ok. Betraying your fans, who stood by you, day and night, through good and bad is just....
I've never been able to express my feelings or thoughts as good as i'd like to.
Thankfully there are people that can, and one of them are VerticalHorizon. Thankfully there are people who can carry on the voice for the voiceless. Allow me to quote.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 26 2010 09:02 VerticalHorizon wrote:Firstly, thank you SO MUCH to the translators. I'm Korean-American so I didn't need the translations but they were still entertaining and it's great to have the video in the first place (I'm noob at finding Korean shows). Secondly, I don't understand why so many people are hating on the commentators for being "overly dramatic." I see that there are a few people who don't even recognize the commentators or iloveoov lol. As a fan of SC since 1998, let me just tell you guys that these commentators have every right to be as upset as they are. The guy on the left, Kim Carrier, and the guy in the middle, Um Jaekyung the Overlord, are fucking historical ICONS in the course of professional gaming, as big in their own way as any of the progamers who have come and gone. Kim Carrier's rational, interesting analysis of the gameflow, Um Jaekyung's plethora of facts/data/interesting trivia... these are the hallmarks of SC commentating. They were among the FIRST EVER to commentate and they worked as hard as anyone in building the industry today. Also, this whole show is supposed to have the informal, chatting-among-friends type vibe. THey're not just playing for the camera, they're chilling with each other. You realize that those three in there have known each other through SC for a DECADE now... of course they will be dramatic and feel free to release some of their more honest, hidden emotions. When I get pissed about something that's dear to me and vent to my friends, I know that I don't have to restrain myself because they understand, they are willing to listen. Through this episode, they let us see them as not just commentators, but true fans and supporters of E-sports who were venting to each other. Ease up with the hate. These guys have done more for the industry than you can ever know, especially you young fans. **************** Another thing I don't understand in this thread is how everyone is talking about how it's "understandable" that these guys took some money to throw matches. Uh... what? Some of you have a seriously fucked up moral compass if you think that betraying your fans, your supporters, and tarnishing the integrity of your profession is justifiable if you're poor enough. Yes, these guys DO have it easier than 10 years ago. You wanna know about 4Union living in a shittyass apt scrounging for sponsorships and living day by day, never knowing when they'd have to lose the dream? What about Xellos paying out of pocket for the youngins on his team, knowing that every victory he won as the Perfect Terran was LITERALLY feeding the other kids on his team? What about the satisfaction and the glory of SKTelecom T1, when all of us cheered because Boxer FINALLY got the sponsorship he deserved from a corporation as huge and impressive as SKT? Okay, so these young gamers of today STILL have it pretty hard. But guess what... iloveoov said it best in this video: Show nested quote +oov said:
As a Progamer, it's not about the law but more about morality. It's more about ethics... Dude, if you can't handle the shitty living conditions of being a C-teamer struggling to win your license or something... don't fucking do it. Just go to college or get a job at McDonald's and have a nice, stable life. Progaming is not like selling dope in the hood or becoming a child soldier in Cambodia. In those cases, many people are born into an environment which gives them no choice. These kids have a CHOICE not to lead this life, no one is forcing some ten-year-old kid to become a progamer. For him to bitch about his poverty and throw matches to make an extra few grand a year is RETARDED because he shouldn't be a progamer if he can't handle the conditions. I mean... seriously? You guys are getting mad the commentators for bitching out these match-fixers because you sympathize with their living conditions? Jeez, if the living conditions were a huge problem, they could either QUIT BEING A PROGAMER or take some POSITIVE action like a progamers' union or something. Match fixing should never be justified by poverty because, as oov said, it's not about legality, it's about ETHICS. It's about what is ultimately RIGHT and WRONG and betraying the trust of people who ADORE you for your gaming skills, fucking over an industry in its infancy that tons of people worked together to build, and in general LYING to everyone who is watching you on TV is just plain WRONG.************* Finally, gonna end this post with a final quote by oov because it just shows what a fucking BALLER Boxer is. Show nested quote +oov said
And because I had Boxer who didn't even come close to the borders of ethics, I got to watch him and learn from him. This exemplifies the true professional athlete for me. Someone who loves the game so goddamn much that they don't even stray NEAR the lines of ethics, they don't even go NEAR that gray area between right and wrong. Because sports, in its ideal form, IS pure. It's competition and brilliance in its rawest, most untainted form. Boxer <3
I genuinely agree with 100% of what VerticalHorizon is saying.
And a big THANKYOU to the subbteam! You are freakin awesome!
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oh wow. thanks for the subs
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Should have stopped reading at "who was the guy who wasn't boxer".
You know sometimes it's best to shut up when you have nothing but garbage to post.
Yes forgive me for getting into competitive RTS with WC3 and not SC >_> I've still played SC since it game out in 1998 (6th grade) for me.
@VerticalHorizon -- Fair enough and I would never defend matchrigging, and your point about it being a choice is correct.
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These Korean commentators are passionate and honest but they are also hurting E-Sports by exaggerating the damage (# of players and games involved). They are making the situation worse than it deserves to be, and hurting StarCraft for the vast, vast majority of progamers who have never done anything wrong.
Self-righteous anger might feel good, but if you speak without thinking you can do more damage than match-fixers.
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5003 Posts
On May 27 2010 17:13 grax wrote:
These Korean commentators are passionate and honest but they are also hurting E-Sports by exaggerating the damage (# of players and games involved). They are making the situation worse than it deserves to be, and hurting StarCraft for the vast, vast majority of progamers who have never done anything wrong.
Self-righteous anger might feel good, but if you speak without thinking you can do more damage than match-fixers.
They never exaggerated the damage. They never even talked about the # of games other than for a pure hypothetical point.
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On May 27 2010 17:13 grax wrote:
These Korean commentators are passionate and honest but they are also hurting E-Sports by exaggerating the damage (# of players and games involved). They are making the situation worse than it deserves to be, and hurting StarCraft for the vast, vast majority of progamers who have never done anything wrong.
Self-righteous anger might feel good, but if you speak without thinking you can do more damage than match-fixers.
I don't think their intention is to exaggerate the damage. I think what they are doing is more like laying the shame on the guilty - going OTT to make sure everyone who sees it understands how bad they'll be outcast and hated should they ever think to do the same thing again. It seems as much a lecture to everyone in e-sports, as a reminder of things like honour and responsibility, as it is for the outside world to see a zero-tolerance attitude from those in the business. In both cases, it's making an example of this incident and those involved.
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On May 27 2010 17:13 grax wrote:
These Korean commentators are passionate and honest but they are also hurting E-Sports by exaggerating the damage (# of players and games involved). They are making the situation worse than it deserves to be, and hurting StarCraft for the vast, vast majority of progamers who have never done anything wrong.
Self-righteous anger might feel good, but if you speak without thinking you can do more damage than match-fixers.
You nned to think, not us. I think some people fail to understand how serious this is
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Is there a list of matches that were fixed? I was listening to the After talk special and Kingdom said something about an OV clearly seeing an SCV. I am wondering in what matches this was.
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Wow, I didn't know an informal chat show by the commentators existed. Thank you for translating (especially this one)!
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In regards to the impression of self-righteous anger and so forth.
It's important to understand that these guys are elders of the sport/public faces of the sport, and if they act like it's no big thing, play it down, or smooth it over, it damages the sport much more gravely. It's necessary to show genuine contrition. They are all part of the one group, the players, coaches, commentators. It's not a case of them loosing emotional control and throwing a hissy on live TV; or of piling on defenseless kids. It's a matter of them expressing to the audience/public, on behalf of the whole pro SC community, how gravely the matter is taken and how shameful it is and how antithetical rigging and corruption is to the sport and the values it wants to promote - as so effectively communicated by the player interviews at the close. There was a reason they talked about the purity of the sport and the importance of being a "moral player".
I know it sounds a bit strange to some people, but it really is the truth that that sort of stuff matters. Consider it "cultural difference" if you want, I guess it is.
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u gotta skate8152 Posts
Hey guys I'm sorry lol but I can't be bothered reading all of this but just wanna ask if anyone is going to prison for this?
thanks
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On May 28 2010 09:42 KizZBG wrote:
Hey guys I'm sorry lol but I can't be bothered reading all of this but just wanna ask if anyone is going to prison for this?
thanks
From what I have heard on DJ Wheat shows the possibility of prison time is there though to early to say for sure. Also i believe Hotbid(may have been Kennigit I forget which one was on the show) said savior might be going for his crimes if he is found guilty. If anyone can elaborate please do I'm curious as well.
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I enjoyed Boxer/Oov part so much. Oh god, I give a thousand thanks to the translation team.
On a slightly unrelated note, Boxer should switch to SC2. His mechanics may have left him, but his creative mind and charisma are still there. Who knows what he might be able to accomplish in SC2?
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Russian Federation4 Posts
On May 28 2010 16:42 dukethegold wrote:
I enjoyed Boxer/Oov part so much. Oh god, I give a thousand thanks to the translation team.
+1. Thanks guys. Great job!
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thank you so much for translating this, it's very long but very very interesting.
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EPT
