TL Subs is not so proud to present After Talk's Betting Scandal
In the wake of the betting scandal, OGN's After Talk crew of commentators gathered around to discuss their opinions on the entire situation. The After Talk show generally consists of the OGN commentators (Kim Carrier, Uhm Jaegyung, NalrA, Kingdom) talking about what went on the previous week in the Korean Starcraft scene. This week's show focused solely on the commentator's reactions, as well as their opinions on what punishments should be handed out, as well as questions about the future of Starcraft in Korea, with a bonus interview with Boxer and iloveoov in the end.
It's a shame that such a scandal has happened in the realm of eSports. But as the OGN crew states, we must stay strong for the future of eSports! Support the majority of gamers who are still working hard to bring enjoyment to viewers every day.
For futher information on the match fixing scandal, please consult this thread.
Big thanks to Milkis who translated the entire show in a day, and thanks to Kennigit for helping with the timing and spotlighting the situation on DJWheat's Live on 3 show. Please enjoy this show.
Pretty simple, just load up the video and enjoy. Youtube version is up!
Other Stuff: This subtitles are brought to you by the Teamliquid Fansub Team. Please do not redistribute, copy, or claim these subs without the permission of the Fansub team.
Our next subtitle project is the works. While you're waiting, feel free to check out our other works, such as NalrA's Oldboy and Hyungjoon Becomes a Progamer!
As a poster of over two thousand top-quality posts, I must say, I am shocked by this scandal and will watch this entire episode while I sit in here in my sweatpants with a meatball sub.
The fact that you guys are translating all these Korean shows for us- has got to be the greatest thing I've seen. lil Susie and her awesome Merchandise offers are right up there too- but this shit is sweet!!! <3
Is it going to be on Youtube? I can't torrent behind the school's firewall and using megaupload is nearly impossible because everyone in the school is under the same IP address.
Also, am I the only person that can't stop laughing at the dude eating? Holy crap he's so loud and at the start "Of course I'm eating, I'm hungry!" hahaha
Thanks for the people who subbed this, I'm going to watch it in a few hours.
Side note: Has anyone noticed increased speeds from Megaupload lately? The other day I DLed something from there at about 500KB/s, now this download is going at about 1.5MB/s. In the past I've been lucky to get 100KB/s from Megaupload.
Unfortunate for me, my interwebs is so slow it'd take 3+hours to DL, waiting to DL tonight before I go to bed to enjoy tomorrow morning, cheers! Grab a drink because its over, so glad it wasn't SUPER serious.
Ok, good job. But one correction to the OP is, Nal_ra did not say anything in this show. But still, this was perfect timing for a day before the OSL finals. Defiantly helped the turnout.
On May 24 2010 06:56 lone_hydra wrote: Ok, good job. But one correction to the OP is, Nal_ra did not say anything in this show. But still, this was perfect timing for a day before the OSL finals. Defiantly helped the turnout.
You may want to read the OP a little closer as it says
The After Talk show generally consists of the OGN commentators (Kim Carrier, Uhm Jaegyung, NalrA, Kingdom) talking about what went on the previous week in the Korean Starcraft scene.
thanks alot for this. just watched it and it really made me realize how deeply this has hurt the korean e-sports scene. this is the problem with being disconnected from them due to the language barrier, you don't get to read their sites and see their comments. in my eyes, up until now, it has felt like there wasn't much of a impact of this but now when seeing this I truely understand the damage these players did.
gotta say I liked the whole root, tree, flower analogy they talked about, although it was a bit cheesy for me it is true. the fans of any sports are the roots of it.
again, thanks alot FST, you guys are doing an amazing job!
On May 24 2010 07:03 tYsopz wrote: Don't close the torrent client as soon as you are finished downloading people, seems to be very few seeders with the whole file!
Seed as long as you can please.
My client is reporting 500+ seeds, try updating tracker or something on your side.
Wow....this makes me feel really bad for the majority of the pro gamers who are pure and passionate for the game. Their conditions are bad, but their elders suffered worse trying to create such a scene for them to enjoy.
On May 24 2010 06:58 weaksauce wrote: i know he's hungry and all, but could they at least turn that guys mic down. i hate hearing people eat, slurp, chew, and talk with their mouth full.
what game are they talking about near the beginning?
"The overlord clearly saw the scv, but they didnt react to each other"
i'm pretty surprised at how disturbed the esports elite are. goes to show how passionate they are in korea and how people live or die on how well esports do. this scandal is far from over.
This was so good to watch! It really made me realize the reality of the situation in a way I have not been able to before. Thanks a lot to the sub team for their amazing effort once again!
Anyways it's interesting to see their reaction. As someone from a far away country looking at the conditions of these pro gamers I sometimes had thoughts like "oh well but they dont make that much money (excluding savior) considering how much they work"etc. For some reason I was surprised about how harsh especially Kim Carrier was, but it makes sense since these people have been building up esports to the point where it is now. I think it's even more heartbreaking for them than it is for the fans.
On May 24 2010 06:58 weaksauce wrote: i know he's hungry and all, but could they at least turn that guys mic down. i hate hearing people eat, slurp, chew, and talk with their mouth full.
what game are they talking about near the beginning?
"The overlord clearly saw the scv, but they didnt react to each other"
Wweeeelll, I have to admit, this did manage to get me a little teary-eyed. The ending interviews with Boxer and iloveoov were especially potent for some reason. Maybe because I followed their pursuit of their eSports dream since they first started, and I shared their victories and defeats. Seeing them this enthusiastic about the sport after all these years is really touching, and it shows - in just a few minutes worth of video - just how much passion they've had for making this amazing culture succeed. That really rekindled my ire over what these younger players have done to damage their efforts.
Having read this already and then seeing this video makes me feel a bit uneased.
The three commentators never take the time to ask the question WHY the gamers would do this, they never once in this video talk about why the gamers would risk their progaming career (without only blaming the players themselves for being young and stupid). All they say is that these are kids that ruin what the oldschool players built up with pride for the game. I'm sure these kids did not start playing starcraft as progamers just because they wanted to make illegal bets and *find out what starcraft is*, I believe all players do it for the passion of the game and the love of starcraft... being a top starcraft player you have to have passion for the game.
They talk about illegal betting and how it has "always been there" but they don't discuss the fact that some of these players are really young, it's highly unlikely they found the betting sites themselves, they were contacted by the betting sites and perhaps they should not take the full blame. This is an industry (the progaming scene in korea) and they are kids, they are not payed like adults even though the work really hard, perhaps they should have been told these things by adults or atleast being supervised better (by coaches, mentors?) - their parents are not in the progaming house.
Having said all this it's still a huge shame that anyone would do this, although it's not surprising at all considering how the progaming business looks like in korea.
I as a fan, will still support progaming. I love starcraft. Progaming has to start support the gamers.
Good stuff, thanks goes out to the subbing team, love seeing how things are viewed and interpreted in Korea. On a sidenote, I just love how the food is there and nobody seems to have much of an appetite except on the bigger guy, makes me hungry.
I'm also annoyed they didn't talk about the reasoning behind it like in that article, but I was also confused why they didn't talk about specific players. They mention Hwasin and go.go, but don't talk about Savior? I'm curious about the fate of Sparkyz considering how many players were indicated, but that wasn't mentioned either. Possibly due to this being a OGN show? Would this mean that Sparkyz is likely to stay because OGN is a station that broadcasts SC vs if Sparkyz's sponsor was a regular company.
I liked that I was able to hear their opinions, but it unfortunately didn't add much info or even stimulate an interesting debate. I did however like their opening points about how ACE being involved could damage the entire E-Sports industry's image.
On May 24 2010 07:52 BlackMagister wrote: I'm also annoyed they didn't talk about the reasoning behind it like in that article, but I was also confused why they didn't talk about specific players. They mention Hwasin and go.go, but don't talk about Savior? I'm curious about the fate of Sparkyz considering how many players were indicated, but that wasn't mentioned either. Possibly due to this being a OGN show? Would this mean that Sparkyz is likely to stay because OGN is a station that broadcasts SC vs if Sparkyz's sponsor was a regular company.
I liked that I was able to hear their opinions, but it unfortunately didn't add much info or even stimulate an interesting debate. I did however like their opening points about how ACE being involved could damage the entire E-Sports industry's image.
Oh they mentioned Savior. You know that guy who has his picture up celebrating? That's Savior. The picture they want to tear down? That's Savior.
On May 24 2010 07:52 BlackMagister wrote: I'm also annoyed they didn't talk about the reasoning behind it like in that article, but I was also confused why they didn't talk about specific players. They mention Hwasin and go.go, but don't talk about Savior? I'm curious about the fate of Sparkyz considering how many players were indicated, but that wasn't mentioned either. Possibly due to this being a OGN show? Would this mean that Sparkyz is likely to stay because OGN is a station that broadcasts SC vs if Sparkyz's sponsor was a regular company.
I liked that I was able to hear their opinions, but it unfortunately didn't add much info or even stimulate an interesting debate. I did however like their opening points about how ACE being involved could damage the entire E-Sports industry's image.
Oh they mentioned Savior. You know that guy who has his picture up celebrating? That's Savior. The picture they want to tear down? That's Savior.
Yeah they mention him indirectly by mentioning those who've won and found rigging matches have their portraits taken down, but it could about Luxury too. I meant how they don't or barely mention how specific players being involved affected things such as Savior's status as an E-Sport icon. Like they also talk about how they've met these players, but don't say anything more than that.
I gotta say I have been feeling pretty good lately and after seeing this the mix of emotions I have is making me feel terrible.
I feel ashamed on behalf of those who cheated.
I feel worried that this will have a bigger impact than most people think (though I personally think bw will survive and do just fine, I can't ignore the thoughts in the back of my head.)
After hearing kingdom and oov talk about the old days and how bad conditions were, what they went through to get to this point and how these cheaters have utterly zero respect for their sacrifices. On one hand I feel sadness and on the other I feel sheer unadulterated rage. If the cheaters were here in front of me I honestly don't know what I would do.
... and I'm a fan, I haven't invested countless hours of my life working my ass off for a chance progaming would succeed. I can't imagine how people intimately involved feel about this but I got a glimpse of it through this show... I feel fucking terrible right now
Ahhhh I want to fucking see these faggots on tv begging for forgiveness
I am glad to see boxer and oov looking at the situation in a good light though, it gives me confidence to hear them talk like that.
On May 24 2010 07:52 BlackMagister wrote: I'm also annoyed they didn't talk about the reasoning behind it like in that article, but I was also confused why they didn't talk about specific players. They mention Hwasin and go.go, but don't talk about Savior? I'm curious about the fate of Sparkyz considering how many players were indicated, but that wasn't mentioned either. Possibly due to this being a OGN show? Would this mean that Sparkyz is likely to stay because OGN is a station that broadcasts SC vs if Sparkyz's sponsor was a regular company.
I liked that I was able to hear their opinions, but it unfortunately didn't add much info or even stimulate an interesting debate. I did however like their opening points about how ACE being involved could damage the entire E-Sports industry's image.
Oh they mentioned Savior. You know that guy who has his picture up celebrating? That's Savior. The picture they want to tear down? That's Savior.
Yeah they mention him indirectly by mentioning those who've won and found rigging matches have their portraits taken down, but it could about Luxury too. I meant how they don't or barely mention how specific players being involved affected things such as Savior's status as an E-Sport icon.
Lux won a MSL, not an OSL. They're broadcasting at OGN, not MBC. They mention Savior's status as an icon in the line "If you look at the list of players involved, they were all rising stars". Then the next line says "You don't even need to talk about <beep>"
They pretty clearly state their opinions. They're trying NOT to reveal specific names here, but it's pretty blatantly obvious who they're referring to.
On May 24 2010 06:58 weaksauce wrote: i know he's hungry and all, but could they at least turn that guys mic down. i hate hearing people eat, slurp, chew, and talk with their mouth full.
what game are they talking about near the beginning?
"The overlord clearly saw the scv, but they didnt react to each other"
fuck man.. look at calm and his coach, the emotions they go through watching their teammate, feeling for them... hwasin coulda just told them "LULLLLZZ I ALREADY ARRANGED IT WITH LUXURY HYUNG THAT I'M GONNA WIN"
and yeah the savior parts were pretty obvious
Also it was interesting the way they talk and how they come up with these great metaphors, very interesting
On May 24 2010 07:52 BlackMagister wrote: I'm also annoyed they didn't talk about the reasoning behind it like in that article, but I was also confused why they didn't talk about specific players. They mention Hwasin and go.go, but don't talk about Savior? I'm curious about the fate of Sparkyz considering how many players were indicated, but that wasn't mentioned either. Possibly due to this being a OGN show? Would this mean that Sparkyz is likely to stay because OGN is a station that broadcasts SC vs if Sparkyz's sponsor was a regular company.
I liked that I was able to hear their opinions, but it unfortunately didn't add much info or even stimulate an interesting debate. I did however like their opening points about how ACE being involved could damage the entire E-Sports industry's image.
Oh they mentioned Savior. You know that guy who has his picture up celebrating? That's Savior. The picture they want to tear down? That's Savior.
Yeah they mention him indirectly by mentioning those who've won and found rigging matches have their portraits taken down, but it could about Luxury too. I meant how they don't or barely mention how specific players being involved affected things such as Savior's status as an E-Sport icon.
Lux won a MSL, not an OSL. They're broadcasting at OGN, not MBC. They mention Savior's status as an icon in the line "If you look at the list of players involved, they were all rising stars". Then the next line says "You don't even need to talk about <beep>"
They pretty clearly state their opinions. They're trying NOT to reveal specific names here, but it's pretty blatantly obvious who they're referring to.
Yeah I know that Luxury won an MSL and they're OGN, but I was just taking it as what should be done in general for E-Sports. I didn't realize they were intentionally not revealing the names with bleeps. I thought they were just swear saying the names, as I had to watch this with no audio.
you guys are awesome, and ppl go download from torrent, the more ppl that download the faster it goes! if you actually bother to spend some upload on it that is
What an emotional episode. First of all, thank you roffles, milkis, kennigit and whoever helped with releasing this episode. 2nd...screw you match fixers
Except you know...... I'm not too sure if it was all such a good thing in the end. People turned up, but pretty was were treated like crap, apparently.
I was really looking forward to seeing a progamer insight on this incident. Boxer and oov's interviews were really touching, seeing how what they helped create stumble with this incident T_T
Fews days ago, I was thinking like Korea wasnt realizing the critical situation this scandal is providing, but after watching the video, it seems like they´re hanging the "crisis" in the best way possible to "clean" the scene and continue with a new fresh legacy of players
imma be honest. the commentators saying stuff seemed like they were just overreacting. i mean yeah they have the right to be pissed but outside of kingdom (who had the most mellow response) they didn't really help build up the sport. but the boxer+oov segment was amazing. especially oov's enthusiasm and his 100-year history metaphor. what great guys.
On May 24 2010 08:35 Antisocialmunky wrote: What were they referring to at the beginning with Shinae and Nal_ra swearing?
OGN has a TV Program where Shinae, Nal_ra and 2 other ex progamers play on battle.net. They're just saying Nal_ra when to film that program so he couldn't be there for the program.
On May 24 2010 08:38 redtooth wrote: imma be honest. the commentators saying stuff seemed like they were just overreacting. i mean yeah they have the right to be pissed but outside of kingdom (who had the most mellow response) they didn't really help build up the sport. but the boxer+oov segment was amazing. especially oov's enthusiasm and his 100-year history metaphor. what great guys.
thanks for the translations.
Those commentators have been covering Starcraft for a long long time. Their influence is arguably just as great. You can link it to someone like John Madden.
These guys have been around for a long time. Kim Carrier's known for being the biggest failure at predictions ever, and without commentators on OGN and MBC, Starcraft definitely wouldn't have garnered as great of an interest.
It's really unbelievable reading the things we all did with disbelief. How we all look up to BoxeR without even being able to speak his language (most of us anyways) and like OOV, saying he didn't even think about fixing games, that these guys grew up going to see them play and then to disgrace a scene so unique, just to get a little bit ahead, is just disgusting and they should be ashamed. But I think it can recover in time, and there's a bright future for e-sports. Let's be the unshakeable root guys.
On May 24 2010 06:58 weaksauce wrote: i know he's hungry and all, but could they at least turn that guys mic down. i hate hearing people eat, slurp, chew, and talk with their mouth full.
what game are they talking about near the beginning?
"The overlord clearly saw the scv, but they didnt react to each other"
Having watched this I really don't know how to feel about this now.
I feel really bad for this to happen, even more so to fans of those players(How many savior fans are changing thar tl sigs now?) I was lucky, I wasn't a huge fan of any of these players however I did have a passing interest in go.go. I feel bad for the fans of the players most of all. Finding out your hero's are not who they seem is never a good time.
I've never even thought about the implications of teams possibly disbanding and the meaning that ACE had on the scene. This whole episode puts into light how serious this scandal really is.
Boxer and Oov standing up for the scene and holding strong, if the fans are the roots, then Boxer and oov is the ground they are in.
man ... all of them .. all of their points made sense .. i say do it harshly and make an example for the rest of league not to engage in these types of betting ..
On May 24 2010 09:02 Parnage wrote: Having watched this I really don't know how to feel about this now.
I feel really bad for this to happen, even more so to fans of those players(How many savior fans are changing thar tl sigs now?) I was lucky, I wasn't a huge fan of any of these players however I did have a passing interest in go.go. I feel bad for the fans of the players most of all. Finding out your hero's are not who they seem is never a good time.
I've never even thought about the implications of teams possibly disbanding and the meaning that ACE had on the scene. This whole episode puts into light how serious this scandal really is.
Boxer and Oov standing up for the scene and holding strong, if the fans are the roots, then Boxer and oov is the ground they are in.
Thanks tl subs. You guys rock.
shit man, totally forgot that I need to change my sig edit: done...
On May 24 2010 08:38 redtooth wrote: imma be honest. the commentators saying stuff seemed like they were just overreacting. i mean yeah they have the right to be pissed but outside of kingdom (who had the most mellow response) they didn't really help build up the sport. but the boxer+oov segment was amazing. especially oov's enthusiasm and his 100-year history metaphor. what great guys.
thanks for the translations.
didn't really help build esport?
they made it into a spectator game .. they are like the spices in the ingredients .. its just different when you watch VoDs w/o commentators. you might have said that because you can't understand what they commentate but look at how the game is beef'd up with commentaries by commentator you actually understand, like those in TSL or GOM ..
I couldn't help but feel but carrier and the guy in the middle were overemotional for the camera. I'm pretty sure they are legitimately mad, but imo, they were overacting for the camera.
Boxer was legit. Looked like he was about to break down at one point. Guy loves e-sports like a baby. Boxer forever.
On May 24 2010 09:25 lone_hydra wrote: I couldn't help but feel but carrier and the guy in the middle were overemotional for the camera. I'm pretty sure they are legitimately mad, but imo, they were overacting for the camera.
Boxer was legit. Looked like he was about to break down at one point. Guy loves e-sports like a baby. Boxer forever.
these two also put in 10 years of their freakin life into esports, and, while I dont know about Kim Carrier, the fat dude was also a player himself at one point, so why on earth would you think that they are overemotional and that they dont love e-sports like boxer does.
On May 24 2010 09 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 24 2010 09 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:25 lone_hydra wrote: I couldn't help but feel but carrier and the guy in the middle were overemotional for the camera. I'm pretty sure they are legitimately mad, but imo, they were overacting for the camera.
Boxer was legit. Looked like he was about to break down at one point. Guy loves e-sports like a baby. Boxer forever.
Carrier is quite direct, and when he talks, I feel how much he cares and loves the scene, and how everything is hurting even the commentators
Quite surprising for me when Kingdom says that "player enviroment" is better now than in his old days. Shit!! nowadays, when kids play 12/14 straight hours, how it was in his prime???
On May 24 2010 09 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 24 2010 09 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:25 lone_hydra wrote: I couldn't help but feel but carrier and the guy in the middle were overemotional for the camera. I'm pretty sure they are legitimately mad, but imo, they were overacting for the camera.
Boxer was legit. Looked like he was about to break down at one point. Guy loves e-sports like a baby. Boxer forever.
Carrier is quite direct, and when he talks, I feel how much he cares and loves the scene, and how everything is hurting even the commentators
Quite surprising for me when Kingdom says that "player enviroment" is better now than in his old days. Shit!! nowadays, when kids play 12/14 straight hours, how it was in his prime???
Like he says, these guys had to stick together and buy food from the money they won in tourneys. Nowadays, while they still work a whole lot, they get to live in somewhat comfortable buildings and get food for free and have contracts with a monthly salary.
On May 24 2010 09 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 24 2010 09 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:25 lone_hydra wrote: I couldn't help but feel but carrier and the guy in the middle were overemotional for the camera. I'm pretty sure they are legitimately mad, but imo, they were overacting for the camera.
Boxer was legit. Looked like he was about to break down at one point. Guy loves e-sports like a baby. Boxer forever.
Carrier is quite direct, and when he talks, I feel how much he cares and loves the scene, and how everything is hurting even the commentators
Quite surprising for me when Kingdom says that "player enviroment" is better now than in his old days. Shit!! nowadays, when kids play 12/14 straight hours, how it was in his prime???
This has been talked about on TL a fair amount in the past.
Like Kingdom said there was small teams and they paid their rent/food etc with tournament winnings of a couple players. Xellos is famous and well respected for this he gave up a lot of his own money to keep the team together. I think I remember a boxer interview or maybe it was his autobiography when he was talking about practically living in a pc bang and eating 1 bag of ramen/day and practicing the rest.
Ya progamers still practice a lot now but they do it in a stable environment, really nice practice facility with plenty of staff, good food, beds, salary etc. It's really no comparison to how it used to be.
I 100% agree with Kim Carrier has arrived, but really the coaches should already have made their decision and kicked out anyone involved - 0 tolerance. If good players are going to throw games, then let a B teamer play. If a B teamer wants to throw games, recruit a rookie that wants to play and win.
He was saying that if the audience in the Korean Air OSL Finals is poor, thats the death of Esports... but, what can we say when that hangar had 12.000 people enjoying the finals???
People still believe and will support
This crisis will pass by, and there will be an importante lesson to be remembered for a long time, not to repeat these mistakes
omg... wow. kang min was hella pissed boxer's explanation of how he tailored his games so that his fan could enjoy it.. this disaster is just bad. i hope they can recover from this scandal.
however, i feel like they really overlook the fact that these players are playing like 80+ hours a week for no pay but just living expenses and food if you are just regular players, and a small stipend if you are a-teamer. i can feel the need to make some more money since you are wasting your life away for nothing unless you are a huge name progamer.
its just disgusting... i dont even know. yes the video explained the conditions are better than it used to be, but still, they aren't that great. it is basically child labor for free. but then again, i cant stand that big names actually partook in the game rigging. i mean come the fuck on man...
Kim Carrier mentions sAviOr at 4:19, you can hear him say "ae yoon" at the end of the beep
But otherwise, i dont believe that they (the commentators) didnt know squat about the whole "scandal" issue. If youve been involved in the esports scene for 10 years, its hard to belive you would have missed something like that.
I honestly think the commentators are waaay too butthurt about this, their personal jobs aren't in question, the whole e-sports scene isn't going to disappear overnight because of 7-8 progamers that fixed a few matches.
"Get rid of gambling sites", "the original sin was always there". Oh yeah good idea dumbass, society needs its vices, there will always be people who overstep boundaries and if it was so easy to get rid of it forever, it would have been done already. "I'd like to give them a life sentence". Yeah, another great idea smartass, way to paint yourself as a vengeful moron from a 3rd world country with no sense of proportion or justice. Maybe you want to splash acid in their faces too?
Don't get me wrong, they should be punished, but leave that to the courts.
From their commentary you'd think South Korea was financially defrauded of billions of dollars the same way Wall Street defrauded the US, but it was just some kids throwing a bunch of games.
Soccer matches have arguments about coach bribing every year. Does the soccer scene die?
On May 24 2010 10:17 ICanFlyLow wrote: Kim Carrier mentions sAviOr at 4:19, you can hear him say "ae yoon" at the end of the beep
But otherwise, i dont believe that they (the commentators) didnt know squat about the whole "scandal" issue. If youve been involved in the esports scene for 10 years, its hard to belive you would have missed something like that.
I don't know about the commentators specifically, but it seems like the whole reaction has been to paint a "few bad apples" when really, there are a lot more people involved. I don't mean that many more people were betting, but that people were complicit by knowing about it and doing nothing. Maybe they were hoping it'd get swept under the rug like with Major League Baseball.
On May 24 2010 10:29 Sadistx wrote: I honestly think the commentators are waaay too butthurt about this, their personal jobs aren't in question, the whole e-sports scene isn't going to disappear overnight because of 7-8 progamers that fixed a few matches.
"Get rid of gambling sites", "the original sin was always there". Oh yeah good idea dumbass, society needs its vices, there will always be people who overstep boundaries and if it was so easy to get rid of it forever, it would have been done already. "I'd like to give them a life sentence". Yeah, another great idea smartass, way to paint yourself as a vengeful moron from a 3rd world country with no sense of proportion or justice. Maybe you want to splash acid in their faces too?
Don't get me wrong, they should be punished, but leave that to the courts.
From their commentary you'd think South Korea was financially defrauded of billions of dollars the same way Wall Street defrauded the US, but it was just some kids throwing a bunch of games.
Soccer matches have arguments about coach bribing every year. Does the soccer scene die?
They're just telling us how they feel. You have no right of coming here and calling them dumbasses, they worked really hard for it and put a lot of trust in those players, it's their passion, of course they're gonna be mad. Of course they know "life sentence" isn't reasonable, they're just voicing their feelings. And it's not about their jobs being in question or anything silly like that, they actually explained how "fragile" the scene can be, it's not even fair to compare it to soccer. Sponsors barely make any money and they can just destroy the whole thing with a snap of their fingers. I'm pretty sure they're feeling good now though, after seeing the absurd amount of people in the OSL finals. People just won't abandon the scene.
Anyway, here's hoping for more big sponsors in the future and more and more (real) great games. I want Defconn performing in the next OSL.
On May 24 2010 08:37 FoBuLouS wrote: I wish there were some way we foreigner fans can still show that we support e-sports. Maybe a letter or e-mail or something signed by all of us.
It would take up soooo many terrabytes, but i like it.
I think Savior got dissapointed in his skills after the 2008 GomTv invitational. I mean like, come on! He lost to Flash in the first round, who back then was just a little, virtually faceless younger teenager. He really lost his faith there, and then it happened. (this is just my theory btw.) Here is dah link if you really want to see the actual game. BTW, great science vessel irradiation-eraser trick by Flash. If you notcie Savior's Muta micro, its not the best. Flash litterally looked broken, but pulled through. http://www.gomtv.net/videos/27
On May 24 2010 10:29 Sadistx wrote: I honestly think the commentators are waaay too butthurt about this, their personal jobs aren't in question, the whole e-sports scene isn't going to disappear overnight because of 7-8 progamers that fixed a few matches.
"Get rid of gambling sites", "the original sin was always there". Oh yeah good idea dumbass, society needs its vices, there will always be people who overstep boundaries and if it was so easy to get rid of it forever, it would have been done already. "I'd like to give them a life sentence". Yeah, another great idea smartass, way to paint yourself as a vengeful moron from a 3rd world country with no sense of proportion or justice. Maybe you want to splash acid in their faces too?
Don't get me wrong, they should be punished, but leave that to the courts.
From their commentary you'd think South Korea was financially defrauded of billions of dollars the same way Wall Street defrauded the US, but it was just some kids throwing a bunch of games.
Soccer matches have arguments about coach bribing every year. Does the soccer scene die?
thanks for the video. Indeed a tragedy this betting problem is. I agreed with the both commentators. For the good of E-Sports the players have to be punished. The sponsors have to believe in Starcraft again and at the same time it would be nice if the players in the teams could have a better life so they won't ever again think about fixing matches.
On May 24 2010 12:09 luiscz wrote: thanks for the video. Indeed a tragedy this betting problem is. I agreed with the both commentators. For the good of E-Sports the players have to be punished. The sponsors have to believe in Starcraft again and at the same time it would be nice if the players in the teams could have a better life so they won't ever again think about fixing matches.
I'm clearly not a frequent poster here, but I certainly do take advantage of the amazing content that this site produces.
First off, I appreciate the guys that took the time to sub this segment. It is time that you didn't have to spend, yet you still choose to. So for that, Thank you so much!
Second -- the casters/players words were surprisingly moving to me and I found myself very contemplative over many of things they had to say. So, after having a few minutes to process it all, I find myself drawn even more to the scene. To be totally honest, before this event I really didn't understand the type of passion and love these guys carried with them about e-sports. I hope that a majority of the other fans, weather casual or hardcore, are level headed enough to understand that this was truly the actions of a few and this should not shake their interest in the sport.
Finally, what I took away most from this was the very real fear of sponsorship losses. It's a harsh reality, but perhaps this fear and loss of income can also help act as a motivator for those who are in this for the strength of the scene and remove those who had dollar signs in their eyes. Sure things may get tough for a while...and this may hopefully push the greedy ones to step away leaving those who truly care to stand by the honest ones and see this though.
Thank you so much for this translation. Words can't describe how much this meant to me seeing how much this effected the Korean scene and their obvious but still amazing determination to not only return E-Sports to what it was but bring it higher.
Yeah I think this video brought up a lot of things I hadn't thought of when I had first heard about the incident. I was more just angry, but I didn't realize all the trouble it could cause T_T
Really emphasized how delicate of a balance E-Sports is on :/
On May 24 2010 15:19 omninmo wrote: these people are professional entertainers/actors. Also, to pretend as though they didn't know abou this... is disingenuous to say the least.
To say Kingdom and iloveoov are professional actors is a bit much, no?
What's really interesting is the whole cultural "respect your elders" aspect to this case. If there was such a scandal in North America/Europe, the accused would simply be burned at stake and the issue resolved fairly quickly.
However, this betting scandal truly hurt everyone on an emotional level. It doesn't help that the early pro-gaming era was, indeed, built on blood, sweat, and tears (aka Ideal Space, now Hwaseung Oz).
Personally, I think the middle man's (Uhm Jaegyung?) reasoning is correct, and that the left's (Kim Carrier?) is too radical. In the end, you can't stop cheating permanently... The system will need time to be able to filter it out effectively enough for cheating to be unlucrative.
Starcraft is bigger than this scandal and those players who participated on it. I hope and believe E-sports survives and like Oov said we can look back at this dark times and say, "That is in the past". I have followed this game since 2001 before vods and youtube and I still feel the same excitement when I watch it now. My respects for the elder players have grown so much more I will always be in debt for the entertaining nights and good times. Long live Starcraft guys and sorry to say this but Fuck Starcraft II
Did anyone else catch the "terrible, terrible damage" easter egg in the translation?
"Our image has been terribly, terribly damaged" Was that intentional? Boxer so epically handsome <3 Oov so gorilla <3
Even though I'm sad about the situation i think scandals like these are marks of the growth of an industry, and I'm very uplifted because of how many people showed up to the OSL finals.
Great translation guys. I cough a few minor things here and there but you got the overall message through.
I'm a little troubled by what the guy on the left says. When he says a what these cheaters did was like stabbing the community he specifically uses the word "bisu". It's not inappropriate or anything but it is a big archaic for casual conversation..... kind of feels like he uses that word specific as a hint... This would really suck because he was the guy who inspired me to play tos.....
Also for people who don't really get it. In Korea respect (especially for your elders, upperclassmen, and people in position of power) is really, really important. So is public image. So essentially this not only ruined the previous generation's public image, it basically ruined everything they have done to get e-sports more seriously.
It's really sad that these people who worked hard over a decade has all their work ruined and they're the ones apologizing and asking for people to believe in the community while the people who are at fault will just get slaps on the wrist and walk away with their image intact.
On May 24 2010 16:49 Lawliet wrote: Great translation guys. I cough a few minor things here and there but you got the overall message through.
I'm a little troubled by what the guy on the left says. When he says a what these cheaters did was like stabbing the community he specifically uses the word "bisu". It's not inappropriate or anything but it is a big archaic for casual conversation..... kind of feels like he uses that word specific as a hint... This would really suck because he was the guy who inspired me to play tos.....
Also for people who don't really get it. In Korea respect (especially for your elders, upperclassmen, and people in position of power) is really, really important. So is public image. So essentially this not only ruined the previous generation's public image, it basically ruined everything they have done to get e-sports more seriously.
It's really sad that these people who worked hard over a decade has all their work ruined and they're the ones apologizing and asking for people to believe in the community while the people who are at fault will just get slaps on the wrist and walk away with their image intact.
Don't worry about Bisu, I'm pretty sure he's legit, as he's in Oldboy Ep 10, which was aired immediately after this show was.
Pro starcraft will recover if the fans really love it. Stuff like this has happened in EVERY major sport. It hurts, but you get back on your feet. I would actually like to see all the guilty players given a second chance some day, but I dont know if the community/powers that be would allow it.
They are too emotional about the situation, it's over-dramatizing and doesn't perceive as natural.
Action has to be taken, damage has been done, but it's not a shame on everyone, those who are involved should be punished. How? They have their own people to decide the means of punishment.
And how the video is presented isn't most appealing for me, talking while eating feels rude, even inapropriate.
For me it's just a hype and bla-bla. Everything is going to be solved and it's going to be ok.
P.S. Huge thanks for translation and editing. Any insight is good
This was recorded 1 day before the OSL finals between Flash and EffOrt, am I right? It's good to see that a lot of people despite all of this, came to see the finals. I really didn't imagine the magnitude or the scale that this crime would affect before watching this. I really hope people will come to the MSL finals too, and that E-Sports will somehow recover and live on.
Pretty interesting to see how beat up they all were about it, especially Kingdom (dude looked like he was really let down. Not his usual self at all).
I think a lot of people didn't realise the potential for disaster that the whole scandal caused and, although the commentators were talking quite emotionally, the points they made were, for the most part, sound.
With the release of SC2 on the ever-approaching horizon, SC progamers must have been feeling a little bit on edge anyway, with no one knowing exactly what would happen and how clean the transition will be, but this just must have come as such a blow.
I'm sure that a lot of members of the esports scene must be really unsure of their future for a lot of reasons right now. Which must really really suck (to say the least).
The long term effects of this have yet to be seen, but all I can think of is how will these young adults fair in the world when E-sports actually dies out? They tailored their lives on this game, they worked their hearts out just to fulfill this dream long long ago watching their idols play the game.
It just kills me to see people like Kim Carrier actually feel what I thought I felt, that these rotten bunch just ruined it for the young upcoming stars that are yet to be discovered. It completly ruins the potential trust of the fans to new stars, as well as it makes a unstable base for these new stars to play on.
I can't help but wonder how will these players live if they don't have E-sports? They can't support themselves because they've already sacrificed this much. I can't understand why they would match fix if they went through the same thing, and knew of such circumstances if they were to get caught. Seriously, those riggers didn't think this shit out.
It's heartbreaking seeing kim carrier ask for the forgiveness of fans when savior and the other match fixers should be the ones doing it. yes, if esports goes down the commentators are out of a job, but they care a lot more than that. they've spent years building the image of the esports scene only to find out there are people who will sell off all their hard work, just like that.
seeing kim carrier and the other commentators, boxer and oov was like watching a delinquent kid's parents have to go and beg for another chance for him, while the kid doesn't even care how much he hurt the parents. but they're willing to swallow their pride because they love him enough even though it's not their fault.
On May 24 2010 19:02 aimaimaim wrote: OMG BISU WILL BE ON OLD BOY EP 10?? OH YA
SORRY FOR CAPS LOLOLOLOL
Are you slightly retarded?
On topic, this was really a tragedy that affected the pillars of ESports, and this is the first time it's been made so painfully clear to me. Hopefully the players realize just how dire their situation is (unlike that little shit go.go whose attitude completely appalled me in Old Boy episode 9) and at least UNDERSTAND that their image has collectively been tarnished and that they learn from this tragedy.
On a brighter note, there was quite a crowd at the OSL finals, and I have high hopes for the MSL finals as well.
On May 24 2010 19:02 aimaimaim wrote: OMG BISU WILL BE ON OLD BOY EP 10?? OH YA
SORRY FOR CAPS LOLOLOLOL
Are you slightly retarded?
On May 24 2010 17:10 Roffles wrote: Don't worry about Bisu, I'm pretty sure he's legit, as he's in Oldboy Ep 10, which was aired immediately after this show was.
ya slightly ..
OT: anyways im just wondering when did the Old Boy was taped? was it before or after the confirmation was casted on the 9pm news? so that we can know what the fuss was all about when the other commentators were talking about Nal_ra's cursing ..
I honestly think this is the end of starcraft progaming because the sponsors are not going to be that interested next season, after all of this shit happened
Few koreans know or use the ID's of players. None of the people I know can recognize a single ID except for Boxer's. Not even the famous ones like Flash, Bisu or Savior. I don't believe they are trying to hint something.
Thanks for subs, you guys are champs for doing it and letting us see how damaging the scandal is in hindsight. It's a real shame Nal_rA wasn't there because I really wanted to hear his thoughts but they did say he was swearing on that shinae show.
It's such a shame that they stooped so low and even more so that likable players did this and we won't be able to see them play again or even see how far they could have gone >< aside from their crimes, I'll still miss seeing them. (players I liked)
On May 24 2010 16:49 Lawliet wrote: I'm a little troubled by what the guy on the left says. When he says a what these cheaters did was like stabbing the community he specifically uses the word "bisu". It's not inappropriate or anything but it is a big archaic for casual conversation..... kind of feels like he uses that word specific as a hint... This would really suck because he was the guy who inspired me to play tos.....
If he even hinted at the player it'd have been censored. It just means "Hidden Dagger" in this case. You generally don't need to worry about homonyms having multiple meanings in this case I think.
OT: anyways im just wondering when did the Old Boy was taped? was it before or after the confirmation was casted on the 9pm news? so that we can know what the fuss was all about when the other commentators were talking about Nal_ra's cursing ..
Thanks for the translation. This was realling interesting (and somewhat depressing) viewing.
Like many others have said here it really opened my eyes to certain aspects of this that hadn't even occured to me. Like how the creation of ACE really helped legitimise ESPORTS to the general public.
The most scary part for me is the sponsor issue. While the OSL seems to have had less problems, It's no secret that the MSL has struggled a little recently to find a sponsor on time, this can only make things even harder for both leagues. At the end of the day, no sponsors, no programing.
Thanks very much for the translation, really appreciated.
I think Jaegyung is probably correct in his assessment compared to Kim Carrier. Also I loved the Boxer/iloveoov interviews at the end. It seemed like Boxer was holding back tears at times but it might just have been the impassioned way he was speaking. Also, loved how positive iloveoov was. Great spirit.
Thank you for translating this, I appreciate it. I really like that they got boxer and oov to talk at the end as well, as I was thinking the entire time "what is boxer going to say?".
It sucks this happened...I hope things move forward in a positive light.
The theme of this video seems like a great fear that the fans abandon the pro BW scene. They keep trying to reassure and plead that from now on esport will stay clean.
Aslo i already read it on the different thread but it seems confirmed that there isn't really much profit in the BW scene so even if they wanted to the players can't be payed much.
It shows also how the industry evolved hearing the old school players talking at first everyone was happy just playing the game doing their best and having fun.
Thanks for the translation. This was very interesting to see, I knew that the scandal had pretty big effects on everything, but the purely emotional reactions from these commentators, Oov and Boxer, make it all the more grim.
We can only hope that e-sports isn't hit by any negative consequences. But I don't think anything too bad will happen.
That was hard to watch. I found myself getting surprisingly emotional at parts, but I couldn't look away. Their passion is inpsiring, especially iloveoov's comments at the end. No matter what happens, I will support E-Sports forever!
wow. powerful stuff. Thanks so much for putting this up, and thanks to the people in e-sports who put their heart and soul into it, you are appreciated!
On May 24 2010 18:00 RA wrote: They are too emotional about the situation, it's over-dramatizing and doesn't perceive as natural.
Action has to be taken, damage has been done, but it's not a shame on everyone, those who are involved should be punished. How? They have their own people to decide the means of punishment.
And how the video is presented isn't most appealing for me, talking while eating feels rude, even inapropriate.
For me it's just a hype and bla-bla. Everything is going to be solved and it's going to be ok.
P.S. Huge thanks for translation and editing. Any insight is good
You don't know anything.
How do you know it is over-dramatizing? Esports is not like baseball, it is a young and fragile thing. Can't you tell that these guys are being genuine? They have built this industry and they really care about it. Especially when Kim Carry apologizes..
And how is talkin while eating rude? Don't you talk when you have a meal with friends or family? That is the concept of this show.
Thanks for the subs. I feel this sort of thing is bound to happen as long as the gamer fees don't compare well to what the gamers can earn by throwing games.
i feel for boxer... boxer and the rest of the old school MADE sc : bw what it is now. him, gundam, yellow, garimto... all the old greats. blah. its like spitting in their faces.
on the side note, i did not appreciate them talking about how the gamers have it good now. it aint good, its better than before but it is only good for those top gamers who make 6 figures (basically flash, jaedong, calm, nada and a few others here and there) it absolutely makes me sick that savior was a ringleader in this when he was one of those who were financially stable. and hwasin... at least the others were just A-team scrubs who got paid miniscule amounts so i can see the financial sense in taking these bribes. but SAVIOR? FPOEWJFPOWEJPOFJWPEFJPEWF rage
So much of what they said was aimed at Savior, with Um talking about whether he was even embarrassed about it, about tearing down his poster, about still believing in him and defending him when he was slumping... the fact that the leading figure of the scandal is a fucking OSL champion is just terrible. Not just a few mediocre, easily forgotten players but Ma Bonjwa himself
In a way I'm glad he never embodied esports the way Boxer does -- Boxer, always playing for the fans. His interview seemed very understated but it was the most emotional moment of the show.
I'm actually a little disappointed in how butthurt these guys seem to be. 7 or so progamers were poor and underpaid, so they took the money where they could get it. Personally, I would prefer the glory of winning, but I can understand the players motivation. I can't see how these commentators couldn't sympathize with them.
Also, living in America, I've grown slightly apathetic towards big scandal such as this. If anything, the idea that someone felt it was worth it to break he law to fix SC games for money shows SC's legitimacy as an e-sport.
To the people who think that the progamers are overdramatizing this situation, seriously you need to realize something before you say those kinds of things. As mentioned before, respect in Korea is extremely important along with the public self-image. The reason why the commentators' discontent with this whole scandal is reasonable is because these progamers have LOST the respect of their fans, other progamers, and the commentators as well. Losing one's trust is, as Kim Carrier points out, devastating because it's hard to earn that trust back. That is why this scandal is such a big deal. Most of these progamers have to be hard-pressed to earn the trust of the fans and the public again and the same goes for every progamer as well. How can anyone trust the progamers to maintain their integrity and honor when playing matches when something like this happens? Therefore, there is a rationale for the commentators to be extremely upset with this scandal.
Not only that, but E-Sports also has not fully blossomed into a true part of Korea's culture yet. One can't really compare the E-Sports scene with other competitive activities such as Soccer and Basketball, because these competitive scenes have been around much longer than E-Sports has. The impact of this scandal on E-Sports clearly has had a much more devastating effect because it hasn't been around long enough.
In a way though, I believe the scandal has some positive aspects despite the blatantly obvious negative effects it has had on people's views towards E-Sports in general. Because this scandal has happened, the E-Sports scene can now develop a system to prevent any further scandals from happening in the future. I believe it's better that the E-Sports scene was exposed to this kind of corruption, so that they may develop better prevention from it and as a result, "learn from mistakes". It still clearly is unfortunate though that this had to happen now, where E-Sports was just beginning to expand and become a big part of society.
On May 25 2010 04:43 rockon1215 wrote: I'm actually a little disappointed in how butthurt these guys seem to be. 7 or so progamers were poor and underpaid, so they took the money where they could get it. Personally, I would prefer the glory of winning, but I can understand the players motivation. I can't see how these commentators couldn't sympathize with them.
Some were underpaid, maybe, but Savior was definitely not. These people are also 'butthurt' because they compare the environment of gamers now to in the past (when Boxer etc were first starting out) and commenting on how lucky current progamers already have it.
Also, living in America, I've grown slightly apathetic towards big scandal such as this. If anything, the idea that someone felt it was worth it to break he law to fix SC games for money shows SC's legitimacy as an e-sport.
The culture in Korea is different from America. Honour, honesty etc are all valued above all in Korea and most Asian countries. If this sort of thing happened in America, no one would care. It is because it happened in an Asian society where it had maintained such a good reputation that caused all the sadness.
Man his chewing is soo annoying, please just wait like 20 minutes after the show is over to eat. Can't take things seriously with his loud mouth noises.
On May 25 2010 07:09 rbkl wrote: Man his chewing is soo annoying, please just wait like 20 minutes after the show is over to eat. Can't take things seriously with his loud mouth noises.
i think the point is that this is "after the show" and they're just chillaxin talking about what went down
i really liked watching this, thanks for to the subs team. gives hope that there's still people like these 3 with passion for e-sports, and it won't die as long as there's people behind it
On May 24 2010 18:00 RA wrote: They are too emotional about the situation, it's over-dramatizing and doesn't perceive as natural.
As a guy who speaks to an audience regularly, I can tell you there is a certain air of unnaturalness when performing for a camera/microphone that is very difficult to get rid of, unless you're a naturally bombastic person. They're speaking their minds, but they have to project their thoughts through their TV personalities, which may sometimes come off as ungenuine, but I absolutely believe this episode showed how they feel about the scandal.
It's so interesting to see the culture difference between Korea and the United States. Those commentators really took the scandal upon themselves, like they were being held accountable along with the 9 players.
Interesting, very interesting.
Thanks again for the translation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Easily the best post all year.
Thanks for subbing this. It definitely showed just how large of an impact the scandal might have on the fragile BW scene. Very emotional episode. I hope the sponsors stick around for years to come.
On May 25 2010 04:43 rockon1215 wrote: I'm actually a little disappointed in how butthurt these guys seem to be. 7 or so progamers were poor and underpaid, so they took the money where they could get it. Personally, I would prefer the glory of winning, but I can understand the players motivation. I can't see how these commentators couldn't sympathize with them.
I think they made that pretty clear. The whole part about "eating ramen"... maybe it was lost in the translation, but all three lived through harder times than progamers now, all just to build the scene into what it is. Hard to have sympathy for kids who have it better than you did when they've just fucked over the whole of e-sports for personal gain - e-sports that these commentators, and others, sacrificed with blood sweat and tears to help create.
ps : Many thanks again, sub-team. This was a very insightful episode for too many reasons to count.
On May 24 2010 06:58 weaksauce wrote: i know he's hungry and all, but could they at least turn that guys mic down. i hate hearing people eat, slurp, chew, and talk with their mouth full.
what game are they talking about near the beginning?
"The overlord clearly saw the scv, but they didnt react to each other"
On May 24 2010 06:58 weaksauce wrote: i know he's hungry and all, but could they at least turn that guys mic down. i hate hearing people eat, slurp, chew, and talk with their mouth full.
what game are they talking about near the beginning?
"The overlord clearly saw the scv, but they didnt react to each other"
This was absolutely ridiculous, wow. Life sentence for betting? I would love to see a video from the gamers' perspective, on their living conditions and etc.
Wow a tattoo across the face... I can almost understand his rage >_> If I was a progamer or ex-progamer I might feel the same. But from a more detached perspective, they are all being ridiculous.
For you folks with Korean knowledge, that "mook hyung" thing that Kim was talking about is some sort of traditional punishment right? Like the Scarlet Letter?
thanks for translation. the resturaunt setting with the swearing and emotional tears/memories made this all the more real and deeper the end was esp. good to watch with oov/boxer esp when boxer said the "in the heavens" part. that was some pretty deep/baller shit
I don't know if the commentators really mean what they are saying, but life sentence, putting a sign "Match Fixing" on their posters, or setting "an example" isn't really the 21 century way. Their lives are already ruined, I think. Punishment is overrated, what's more important are preventive measures like trying to get progamers the sense of good sportsmanship. Or giving accessorys the confidence to talk, I bet there are some (witch is also mentioned in the video). Also the wish of "clean sports" is a bit to much. That is not possible. The goal should be to have a sport as "clean" as possible. However, really great stuff, thx for subbing!
Oh man watching that Luxury v Hwasin game makes me so mad. Just knowing that I was sitting there thinking "Ok we're down 0-1, but hopefully Luxury can bring it back" then watching him lose, being upset, but then thinking "it's ok Luxury, you'll do better next time"
Thanks to all who brought this to us, helped me as a newbie to get a little bit more perspective on the whole situation. The way Kim Carrier speaks about the issue is very moving.
On May 25 2010 18:52 Vei wrote: This was absolutely ridiculous, wow. Life sentence for betting? I would love to see a video from the gamers' perspective, on their living conditions and etc.
Talking about their living conditions to the old progamers like Kingdom, Ra, Boxer, and Yellow? Are you kidding? those guys had it MUCH worse than the modern day progamers. Ever heard of the stories of XellOs who would use his winnings to support his team? Yeah, they did that instead of spending money from match-rigging on stuff like Gucci and whores. >_> These new progamers have basically nothing to say about their conditions compared to the old progamers.
Does anyone have a link to where Nal_Ra's response is that was mentioned in the show?
Also, do you think Kim Carrier has thought about the fact that maybe his predictions were involved in the match rigging (Obviously not rigging games himself, but maybe thats why in that one part he talks about feeling like he was involved unintentionally)? If I were a casual fan and I saw a famous commentator being like "This guy will definitely make it to semis", I would totally bet on that guy...
On May 25 2010 18:52 Vei wrote: This was absolutely ridiculous, wow. Life sentence for betting? I would love to see a video from the gamers' perspective, on their living conditions and etc.
Talking about their living conditions to the old progamers like Kingdom, Ra, Boxer, and Yellow? Are you kidding? those guys had it MUCH worse than the modern day progamers. Ever heard of the stories of XellOs who would use his winnings to support his team? Yeah, they did that instead of spending money from match-rigging on stuff like Gucci and whores. >_> These new progamers have basically nothing to say about their conditions compared to the old progamers.
I'm sure you're right but I'd still like to hear the facts from their side.
That said, the two progamers who talked at the end were really good (who was the guy who wasn't Boxer?)... the three main guys I thought were absolutely pathetic. They spent 30 minutes just complaining, insulting, and raging on the people who fixed (and I assume they were bleeping out sAviOrs name or something?), all the while one of them is too fucking fat to put down the fork for 40 god damn minutes to do a TV show he's being paid for -- disgusting. The way Boxer and the other gamer spoke, briefly, expressing their disappointment but focusing more on the fans and regaining their trust, was much more commendable than the childish derision the three hosts were partaking for THIRTY minutes.
To be fair though, at one point the fat guy said he'd give him a slap if he was next to him and the flannel'd guy said something like only a slap? to which he commendably responded, if not a slap what else is there? That guy at least had some sort of level-headedness to it, realizing that yes they were completely dishonorable and the punishment they will receive is the lack of respect from any of their peers; meanwhile the flannel guy was just straight going on about life sentences, tattoos across the face, and I'm sure in his mind he was wishing for physical injury.
On May 25 2010 18:52 Vei wrote: This was absolutely ridiculous, wow. Life sentence for betting? I would love to see a video from the gamers' perspective, on their living conditions and etc.
Talking about their living conditions to the old progamers like Kingdom, Ra, Boxer, and Yellow? Are you kidding? those guys had it MUCH worse than the modern day progamers. Ever heard of the stories of XellOs who would use his winnings to support his team? Yeah, they did that instead of spending money from match-rigging on stuff like Gucci and whores. >_> These new progamers have basically nothing to say about their conditions compared to the old progamers.
I'm sure you're right but I'd still like to hear the facts from their side.
That said, the two progamers who talked at the end were really good (who was the guy who wasn't Boxer?)... the three main guys I thought were absolutely pathetic. They spent 30 minutes just complaining, insulting, and raging on the people who fixed (and I assume they were bleeping out sAviOrs name or something?), all the while one of them is too fucking fat to put down the fork for 40 god damn minutes to do a TV show he's being paid for -- disgusting. The way Boxer and the other gamer spoke, briefly, expressing their disappointment but focusing more on the fans and regaining their trust, was much more commendable than the childish derision the three hosts were partaking for THIRTY minutes.
To be fair though, at one point the fat guy said he'd give him a slap if he was next to him and the flannel'd guy said something like only a slap? to which he commendably responded, if not a slap what else is there? That guy at least had some sort of level-headedness to it, realizing that yes they were completely dishonorable and the punishment they will receive is the lack of respect from any of their peers; meanwhile the flannel guy was just straight going on about life sentences, tattoos across the face, and I'm sure in his mind he was wishing for physical injury.
They were venting their rage at the fact that those progamers rigged games. The three guys commenting actually knew some of those progamers so Id say that gives them every right to be angry. If you watched, you would notice that they comment on how they are trying to get the fans attention as well and apologizing. As for the bleeping, it was swear words. They mentioned no specific names in the scandal.
On May 25 2010 18:52 Vei wrote: This was absolutely ridiculous, wow. Life sentence for betting? I would love to see a video from the gamers' perspective, on their living conditions and etc.
Talking about their living conditions to the old progamers like Kingdom, Ra, Boxer, and Yellow? Are you kidding? those guys had it MUCH worse than the modern day progamers. Ever heard of the stories of XellOs who would use his winnings to support his team? Yeah, they did that instead of spending money from match-rigging on stuff like Gucci and whores. >_> These new progamers have basically nothing to say about their conditions compared to the old progamers.
I'm sure you're right but I'd still like to hear the facts from their side.
That said, the two progamers who talked at the end were really good (who was the guy who wasn't Boxer?)... the three main guys I thought were absolutely pathetic. They spent 30 minutes just complaining, insulting, and raging on the people who fixed (and I assume they were bleeping out sAviOrs name or something?), all the while one of them is too fucking fat to put down the fork for 40 god damn minutes to do a TV show he's being paid for -- disgusting. The way Boxer and the other gamer spoke, briefly, expressing their disappointment but focusing more on the fans and regaining their trust, was much more commendable than the childish derision the three hosts were partaking for THIRTY minutes.
To be fair though, at one point the fat guy said he'd give him a slap if he was next to him and the flannel'd guy said something like only a slap? to which he commendably responded, if not a slap what else is there? That guy at least had some sort of level-headedness to it, realizing that yes they were completely dishonorable and the punishment they will receive is the lack of respect from any of their peers; meanwhile the flannel guy was just straight going on about life sentences, tattoos across the face, and I'm sure in his mind he was wishing for physical injury.
People express their dissapointment in different ways. Being emotional is a natural quality of a commentator, so of course they will react with strong emotions.
thanks a lot of the translation and subtitles guys. very interesting listening to the ogn crew. i wouldn't have thought it possible before, but BoxeR's interview has made me respect him even more. probably the goal, as they End with the interview and it's edited. but the guy Just seems so damn full of Love and honesty
On MaY 25 2010 18:52 Vei wrote: This was absolutely ridiculous, wow. Life sentence for betting? I would Love to see a video from the gamers' perspective, on their living conditions and etc.
Talking about their living conditions to the old progamers like Kingdom, Ra, BoxeR, and YellOw? Are you kidding? those guys had it MUCH worse than the Modern Day progamers. Ever heard of the stories of XellOs who would use his winnings to support his Team? Yeah, they did that instead of spending Money from match-rigging on stuff like Gucci and whores. >_> These new progamers have basically nothing to say about their conditions compared to the old progamers.
I'm sure you're right but I'd still like to hear the facts from their Side.
That SaiD, the two progamers who talked at the End were Really good (who was the guy who wasn't BoxeR?)
that was iloveoov, BoxeR's pupil, and an SKT player-coach (maybe he's Just a coach now?)
Firstly, thank you SO MUCH to the translators. I'm Korean-American so I didn't need the translations but they were still entertaining and it's great to have the video in the first place (I'm noob at finding Korean shows).
Secondly, I don't understand why so many people are hating on the commentators for being "overly dramatic." I see that there are a few people who don't even recognize the commentators or iloveoov lol. As a fan of SC since 1998, let me just tell you guys that these commentators have every right to be as upset as they are. The guy on the left, Kim Carrier, and the guy in the middle, Um Jaekyung the Overlord, are fucking historical ICONS in the course of professional gaming, as big in their own way as any of the progamers who have come and gone. Kim Carrier's rational, interesting analysis of the gameflow, Um Jaekyung's plethora of facts/data/interesting trivia... these are the hallmarks of SC commentating. They were among the FIRST EVER to commentate and they worked as hard as anyone in building the industry today.
Also, this whole show is supposed to have the informal, chatting-among-friends type vibe. THey're not just playing for the camera, they're chilling with each other. You realize that those three in there have known each other through SC for a DECADE now... of course they will be dramatic and feel free to release some of their more honest, hidden emotions. When I get pissed about something that's dear to me and vent to my friends, I know that I don't have to restrain myself because they understand, they are willing to listen. Through this episode, they let us see them as not just commentators, but true fans and supporters of E-sports who were venting to each other.
Ease up with the hate. These guys have done more for the industry than you can ever know, especially you young fans.
****************
Another thing I don't understand in this thread is how everyone is talking about how it's "understandable" that these guys took some money to throw matches. Uh... what? Some of you have a seriously fucked up moral compass if you think that betraying your fans, your supporters, and tarnishing the integrity of your profession is justifiable if you're poor enough.
Yes, these guys DO have it easier than 10 years ago. You wanna know about 4Union living in a shittyass apt scrounging for sponsorships and living day by day, never knowing when they'd have to lose the dream? What about Xellos paying out of pocket for the youngins on his team, knowing that every victory he won as the Perfect Terran was LITERALLY feeding the other kids on his team? What about the satisfaction and the glory of SKTelecom T1, when all of us cheered because Boxer FINALLY got the sponsorship he deserved from a corporation as huge and impressive as SKT?
Okay, so these young gamers of today STILL have it pretty hard. But guess what... iloveoov said it best in this video:
oov said:
As a Progamer, it's not about the law but more about morality. It's more about ethics...
Dude, if you can't handle the shitty living conditions of being a C-teamer struggling to win your license or something... don't fucking do it. Just go to college or get a job at McDonald's and have a nice, stable life.
Progaming is not like selling dope in the hood or becoming a child soldier in Cambodia. In those cases, many people are born into an environment which gives them no choice. These kids have a CHOICE not to lead this life, no one is forcing some ten-year-old kid to become a progamer. For him to bitch about his poverty and throw matches to make an extra few grand a year is RETARDED because he shouldn't be a progamer if he can't handle the conditions.
I mean... seriously? You guys are getting mad the commentators for bitching out these match-fixers because you sympathize with their living conditions? Jeez, if the living conditions were a huge problem, they could either QUIT BEING A PROGAMER or take some POSITIVE action like a progamers' union or something.
Match fixing should never be justified by poverty because, as oov said, it's not about legality, it's about ETHICS. It's about what is ultimately RIGHT and WRONG and betraying the trust of people who ADORE you for your gaming skills, fucking over an industry in its infancy that tons of people worked together to build, and in general LYING to everyone who is watching you on TV is just plain WRONG.
*************
Finally, gonna end this post with a final quote by oov because it just shows what a fucking BALLER Boxer is.
oov said
And because I had Boxer who didn't even come close to the borders of ethics, I got to watch him and learn from him.
This exemplifies the true professional athlete for me. Someone who loves the game so goddamn much that they don't even stray NEAR the lines of ethics, they don't even go NEAR that gray area between right and wrong.
Because sports, in its ideal form, IS pure. It's competition and brilliance in its rawest, most untainted form. Boxer <3
VerticalHorizon's post pretty much captured what I'm going to say. But I'm going to reemphasize the atmosphere of this show.
I guess it is my fault for not making the context of the show more clear. "After Talk", after all, really is a really odd translation (Back Talk/After Talk are both literal translations). What's probably closer is "Backstage Talk" or something like that just pretty much tells you that it's just a show where the commentators just talk about things casually without that much regards. Normally the topic of conversation is VERY off topic, this was a very special episode in that they talked about one topic the entire time. Usually they're just hanging out, chilling, wherever they decide to host it (Episode 19, the episode before this, was a camping episode), and then they talk about Starcraft now and then, probably like a bunch of people who work the same job talking about what's going on in the industry.
It's supposed to be 100% informal, relaxed etc. I apologize that I didn't make that clear and didn't provide the adequate context since it's clear that it's stirring up quite some bit of misunderstandings. (ie, that's why the "Fat guy" (Uhm Jaegyung) is just eating the entire time, and why they even have food there to begin with)
first, thanks for the translation, i cant say how grateful i am, really, great job!
second, i was going to make some comments replying to people who thought the guys were too harsh, or insane, or taking everything to seriously, or whatever; but yeah, verticalhorizon did a way better job than i possibly could; so big thanks to verticalh i guess - thanks for taking the time
just remember, korea is a different culture, its just not the same thing; and sc progaming is at a different stage there from where it is in america. try and imagine say, i don't know, day[9] at 35, he's spent a decade or more building the rep of e-sports in the US, it's really starting to take off after years and years of often entirely unpaid and rewarded work by people like him, major sponsors starting to appear - and then there is some major scandal and the image of the sport is trashed, the internets are aflame and the sponsors are running for the hills... thats the kind of position they are speaking from, when they are so upset.
anyway vh said it better. - thanks again for the vid/subs!
I really want to write a long and thoughtful post, but because of my work, I cannot.
So I will simply say thank you to the TL Translating Team, you guys do so much for us. Without you, TL can not be where it is today. Thank you to the Team Liquid community. Although a member or two may bring us down, I have always liked to think of this place as another home of mine. You guys are great. And thank you to Boxer and iloveOOv, all the veterans of StarCraft and E-sports alike, and to the current players now playing with the same heart and passion that made this scene great.
Look at how emotional the video made me. Oh well. TL Fighting!~ StarCraft Fighting!~ E-Sports Fighting!~
BoxeR FOREVER! I couldn't have had more respect than when I watched him describe his feelings. iloveoov was pretty awesome too. BTW, the commentators had perfect Sense! I don't fuckin' get why you are disturbed about there chewing. Maybe its cuz that i'm chinese and I'm used to it, but this is a social talk, not the Presidential inauguaration! Even though Kim Carrier was a Tiny bit too radical. they made perfect Sense. If you understand Korean culture, then you'd know why they were so upset. Just think! They're not overreacting. This scandal has the potential to End E-sports, sponsorship, and Starcraft gaming forever! Guys, read and think before you post like a stupid idiot!!! BUt seriously, awesome video and thank you guys soooo much for the translations. Oh yeah, and could one of you go check sAviOr's fansite right now. I wanna know what they're saying. Thanks! :D
On May 26 2010 12:57 Lightningbullet wrote: BoxeR FOREVER! I couldn't have had more respect than when I watched him describe his feelings. iloveoov was pretty awesome too. BTW, the commentators had perfect Sense! I don't fuckin' get why you are disturbed about there chewing. Maybe its cuz that i'm chinese and I'm used to it, but this is a social talk, not the Presidential inauguaration! Even though Kim Carrier was a Tiny bit too radical. they made perfect Sense. If you understand Korean culture, then you'd know why they were so upset. Just think! They're not overreacting. This scandal has the potential to End E-sports, sponsorship, and Starcraft gaming forever! Guys, read and think before you post like a stupid idiot!!! BUt seriously, awesome video and thank you guys soooo much for the translations. Oh yeah, and could one of you go check sAviOr's fansite right now. I wanna know what they're saying. Thanks! :D
Oh man HAHAHA. Auto-TLPD doesn't end well most of the time.
While I understand, and sympathize with how they feel, I don't think this situation will be as detrimental to the development of E-Sports as they make it sound. Sure, it won't help, but all forms of competition suffer from adversity at some point, especially when they increase in popularity.
I personally am not concerned about the future of E-Sports from all this. It's just an inevitable speed bump in the development process. People that enjoy competitive Starcraft will continue to do so.
yeah everyone who complains about the "overreaction" of the commentators should take a long hard look at verticalhorizon's post it's completely legitimate
On May 25 2010 18:52 Vei wrote: This was absolutely ridiculous, wow. Life sentence for betting? I would love to see a video from the gamers' perspective, on their living conditions and etc.
Talking about their living conditions to the old progamers like Kingdom, Ra, Boxer, and Yellow? Are you kidding? those guys had it MUCH worse than the modern day progamers. Ever heard of the stories of XellOs who would use his winnings to support his team? Yeah, they did that instead of spending money from match-rigging on stuff like Gucci and whores. >_> These new progamers have basically nothing to say about their conditions compared to the old progamers.
I'm sure you're right but I'd still like to hear the facts from their side.
That said, the two progamers who talked at the end were really good (who was the guy who wasn't Boxer?)... the three main guys I thought were absolutely pathetic. They spent 30 minutes just complaining, insulting, and raging on the people who fixed (and I assume they were bleeping out sAviOrs name or something?), all the while one of them is too fucking fat to put down the fork for 40 god damn minutes to do a TV show he's being paid for -- disgusting. The way Boxer and the other gamer spoke, briefly, expressing their disappointment but focusing more on the fans and regaining their trust, was much more commendable than the childish derision the three hosts were partaking for THIRTY minutes.
To be fair though, at one point the fat guy said he'd give him a slap if he was next to him and the flannel'd guy said something like only a slap? to which he commendably responded, if not a slap what else is there? That guy at least had some sort of level-headedness to it, realizing that yes they were completely dishonorable and the punishment they will receive is the lack of respect from any of their peers; meanwhile the flannel guy was just straight going on about life sentences, tattoos across the face, and I'm sure in his mind he was wishing for physical injury.
Should have stopped reading at "who was the guy who wasn't boxer". You know sometimes it's best to shut up when you have nothing but garbage to post.
You said it beautifully. Allow me to quote this again.
On May 26 2010 09:02 VerticalHorizon wrote: Firstly, thank you SO MUCH to the translators. I'm Korean-American so I didn't need the translations but they were still entertaining and it's great to have the video in the first place (I'm noob at finding Korean shows).
Secondly, I don't understand why so many people are hating on the commentators for being "overly dramatic." I see that there are a few people who don't even recognize the commentators or iloveoov lol. As a fan of SC since 1998, let me just tell you guys that these commentators have every right to be as upset as they are. The guy on the left, Kim Carrier, and the guy in the middle, Um Jaekyung the Overlord, are fucking historical ICONS in the course of professional gaming, as big in their own way as any of the progamers who have come and gone. Kim Carrier's rational, interesting analysis of the gameflow, Um Jaekyung's plethora of facts/data/interesting trivia... these are the hallmarks of SC commentating. They were among the FIRST EVER to commentate and they worked as hard as anyone in building the industry today.
Also, this whole show is supposed to have the informal, chatting-among-friends type vibe. THey're not just playing for the camera, they're chilling with each other. You realize that those three in there have known each other through SC for a DECADE now... of course they will be dramatic and feel free to release some of their more honest, hidden emotions. When I get pissed about something that's dear to me and vent to my friends, I know that I don't have to restrain myself because they understand, they are willing to listen. Through this episode, they let us see them as not just commentators, but true fans and supporters of E-sports who were venting to each other.
Ease up with the hate. These guys have done more for the industry than you can ever know, especially you young fans.
****************
Another thing I don't understand in this thread is how everyone is talking about how it's "understandable" that these guys took some money to throw matches. Uh... what? Some of you have a seriously fucked up moral compass if you think that betraying your fans, your supporters, and tarnishing the integrity of your profession is justifiable if you're poor enough.
Yes, these guys DO have it easier than 10 years ago. You wanna know about 4Union living in a shittyass apt scrounging for sponsorships and living day by day, never knowing when they'd have to lose the dream? What about Xellos paying out of pocket for the youngins on his team, knowing that every victory he won as the Perfect Terran was LITERALLY feeding the other kids on his team? What about the satisfaction and the glory of SKTelecom T1, when all of us cheered because Boxer FINALLY got the sponsorship he deserved from a corporation as huge and impressive as SKT?
Okay, so these young gamers of today STILL have it pretty hard. But guess what... iloveoov said it best in this video:
As a Progamer, it's not about the law but more about morality. It's more about ethics...
Dude, if you can't handle the shitty living conditions of being a C-teamer struggling to win your license or something... don't fucking do it. Just go to college or get a job at McDonald's and have a nice, stable life.
Progaming is not like selling dope in the hood or becoming a child soldier in Cambodia. In those cases, many people are born into an environment which gives them no choice. These kids have a CHOICE not to lead this life, no one is forcing some ten-year-old kid to become a progamer. For him to bitch about his poverty and throw matches to make an extra few grand a year is RETARDED because he shouldn't be a progamer if he can't handle the conditions.
I mean... seriously? You guys are getting mad the commentators for bitching out these match-fixers because you sympathize with their living conditions? Jeez, if the living conditions were a huge problem, they could either QUIT BEING A PROGAMER or take some POSITIVE action like a progamers' union or something.
Match fixing should never be justified by poverty because, as oov said, it's not about legality, it's about ETHICS. It's about what is ultimately RIGHT and WRONG and betraying the trust of people who ADORE you for your gaming skills, fucking over an industry in its infancy that tons of people worked together to build, and in general LYING to everyone who is watching you on TV is just plain WRONG.
*************
Finally, gonna end this post with a final quote by oov because it just shows what a fucking BALLER Boxer is.
And because I had Boxer who didn't even come close to the borders of ethics, I got to watch him and learn from him.
This exemplifies the true professional athlete for me. Someone who loves the game so goddamn much that they don't even stray NEAR the lines of ethics, they don't even go NEAR that gray area between right and wrong.
Because sports, in its ideal form, IS pure. It's competition and brilliance in its rawest, most untainted form. Boxer <3
are you guys serious? the political situation is gonna burst between north and south korea and people are "sad" and "angry" because of match fixing?...the timing of this video is very bad.
thank you for the subs. i felt really betrayed when i found out about the scandal and i can get where all these commentaries and opinions are coming from i hope those who have to be punished are punished, and those who were fans of the Players involved i hope you can find forgiveness and remember the best of those who have done the worst to you.... E sports and sc1 will go on as Boxer said "it is because of the fans i found a way" .. cheer up there are still more matches that will amaze and entertain you..
After watching this I had a ton of thoughts running through my head. I had so much to say yet I didn't know how to express myself. It just appals me that people throw games, turn their backs against their fans, supporters and the community. It appals me even more that some people think that's ok. Betraying your fans, who stood by you, day and night, through good and bad is just....
I've never been able to express my feelings or thoughts as good as i'd like to. Thankfully there are people that can, and one of them are VerticalHorizon. Thankfully there are people who can carry on the voice for the voiceless. Allow me to quote.
On May 26 2010 09:02 VerticalHorizon wrote: Firstly, thank you SO MUCH to the translators. I'm Korean-American so I didn't need the translations but they were still entertaining and it's great to have the video in the first place (I'm noob at finding Korean shows).
Secondly, I don't understand why so many people are hating on the commentators for being "overly dramatic." I see that there are a few people who don't even recognize the commentators or iloveoov lol. As a fan of SC since 1998, let me just tell you guys that these commentators have every right to be as upset as they are. The guy on the left, Kim Carrier, and the guy in the middle, Um Jaekyung the Overlord, are fucking historical ICONS in the course of professional gaming, as big in their own way as any of the progamers who have come and gone. Kim Carrier's rational, interesting analysis of the gameflow, Um Jaekyung's plethora of facts/data/interesting trivia... these are the hallmarks of SC commentating. They were among the FIRST EVER to commentate and they worked as hard as anyone in building the industry today.
Also, this whole show is supposed to have the informal, chatting-among-friends type vibe. THey're not just playing for the camera, they're chilling with each other. You realize that those three in there have known each other through SC for a DECADE now... of course they will be dramatic and feel free to release some of their more honest, hidden emotions. When I get pissed about something that's dear to me and vent to my friends, I know that I don't have to restrain myself because they understand, they are willing to listen. Through this episode, they let us see them as not just commentators, but true fans and supporters of E-sports who were venting to each other.
Ease up with the hate. These guys have done more for the industry than you can ever know, especially you young fans.
****************
Another thing I don't understand in this thread is how everyone is talking about how it's "understandable" that these guys took some money to throw matches. Uh... what? Some of you have a seriously fucked up moral compass if you think that betraying your fans, your supporters, and tarnishing the integrity of your profession is justifiable if you're poor enough.
Yes, these guys DO have it easier than 10 years ago. You wanna know about 4Union living in a shittyass apt scrounging for sponsorships and living day by day, never knowing when they'd have to lose the dream? What about Xellos paying out of pocket for the youngins on his team, knowing that every victory he won as the Perfect Terran was LITERALLY feeding the other kids on his team? What about the satisfaction and the glory of SKTelecom T1, when all of us cheered because Boxer FINALLY got the sponsorship he deserved from a corporation as huge and impressive as SKT?
Okay, so these young gamers of today STILL have it pretty hard. But guess what... iloveoov said it best in this video:
As a Progamer, it's not about the law but more about morality. It's more about ethics...
Dude, if you can't handle the shitty living conditions of being a C-teamer struggling to win your license or something... don't fucking do it. Just go to college or get a job at McDonald's and have a nice, stable life.
Progaming is not like selling dope in the hood or becoming a child soldier in Cambodia. In those cases, many people are born into an environment which gives them no choice. These kids have a CHOICE not to lead this life, no one is forcing some ten-year-old kid to become a progamer. For him to bitch about his poverty and throw matches to make an extra few grand a year is RETARDED because he shouldn't be a progamer if he can't handle the conditions.
I mean... seriously? You guys are getting mad the commentators for bitching out these match-fixers because you sympathize with their living conditions? Jeez, if the living conditions were a huge problem, they could either QUIT BEING A PROGAMER or take some POSITIVE action like a progamers' union or something.
Match fixing should never be justified by poverty because, as oov said, it's not about legality, it's about ETHICS. It's about what is ultimately RIGHT and WRONG and betraying the trust of people who ADORE you for your gaming skills, fucking over an industry in its infancy that tons of people worked together to build, and in general LYING to everyone who is watching you on TV is just plain WRONG.
*************
Finally, gonna end this post with a final quote by oov because it just shows what a fucking BALLER Boxer is.
And because I had Boxer who didn't even come close to the borders of ethics, I got to watch him and learn from him.
This exemplifies the true professional athlete for me. Someone who loves the game so goddamn much that they don't even stray NEAR the lines of ethics, they don't even go NEAR that gray area between right and wrong.
Because sports, in its ideal form, IS pure. It's competition and brilliance in its rawest, most untainted form. Boxer <3
I genuinely agree with 100% of what VerticalHorizon is saying.
And a big THANKYOU to the subbteam! You are freakin awesome!
These Korean commentators are passionate and honest but they are also hurting E-Sports by exaggerating the damage (# of players and games involved). They are making the situation worse than it deserves to be, and hurting StarCraft for the vast, vast majority of progamers who have never done anything wrong.
Self-righteous anger might feel good, but if you speak without thinking you can do more damage than match-fixers.
On May 27 2010 17:13 grax wrote: These Korean commentators are passionate and honest but they are also hurting E-Sports by exaggerating the damage (# of players and games involved). They are making the situation worse than it deserves to be, and hurting StarCraft for the vast, vast majority of progamers who have never done anything wrong.
Self-righteous anger might feel good, but if you speak without thinking you can do more damage than match-fixers.
They never exaggerated the damage. They never even talked about the # of games other than for a pure hypothetical point.
On May 27 2010 17:13 grax wrote: These Korean commentators are passionate and honest but they are also hurting E-Sports by exaggerating the damage (# of players and games involved). They are making the situation worse than it deserves to be, and hurting StarCraft for the vast, vast majority of progamers who have never done anything wrong.
Self-righteous anger might feel good, but if you speak without thinking you can do more damage than match-fixers.
I don't think their intention is to exaggerate the damage. I think what they are doing is more like laying the shame on the guilty - going OTT to make sure everyone who sees it understands how bad they'll be outcast and hated should they ever think to do the same thing again. It seems as much a lecture to everyone in e-sports, as a reminder of things like honour and responsibility, as it is for the outside world to see a zero-tolerance attitude from those in the business. In both cases, it's making an example of this incident and those involved.
On May 27 2010 17:13 grax wrote: These Korean commentators are passionate and honest but they are also hurting E-Sports by exaggerating the damage (# of players and games involved). They are making the situation worse than it deserves to be, and hurting StarCraft for the vast, vast majority of progamers who have never done anything wrong.
Self-righteous anger might feel good, but if you speak without thinking you can do more damage than match-fixers.
You nned to think, not us. I think some people fail to understand how serious this is
Is there a list of matches that were fixed? I was listening to the After talk special and Kingdom said something about an OV clearly seeing an SCV. I am wondering in what matches this was.
In regards to the impression of self-righteous anger and so forth.
It's important to understand that these guys are elders of the sport/public faces of the sport, and if they act like it's no big thing, play it down, or smooth it over, it damages the sport much more gravely. It's necessary to show genuine contrition. They are all part of the one group, the players, coaches, commentators. It's not a case of them loosing emotional control and throwing a hissy on live TV; or of piling on defenseless kids. It's a matter of them expressing to the audience/public, on behalf of the whole pro SC community, how gravely the matter is taken and how shameful it is and how antithetical rigging and corruption is to the sport and the values it wants to promote - as so effectively communicated by the player interviews at the close. There was a reason they talked about the purity of the sport and the importance of being a "moral player".
I know it sounds a bit strange to some people, but it really is the truth that that sort of stuff matters. Consider it "cultural difference" if you want, I guess it is.
On May 28 2010 09:42 KizZBG wrote: Hey guys I'm sorry lol but I can't be bothered reading all of this but just wanna ask if anyone is going to prison for this?
thanks
From what I have heard on DJ Wheat shows the possibility of prison time is there though to early to say for sure. Also i believe Hotbid(may have been Kennigit I forget which one was on the show) said savior might be going for his crimes if he is found guilty. If anyone can elaborate please do I'm curious as well.
I enjoyed Boxer/Oov part so much. Oh god, I give a thousand thanks to the translation team.
On a slightly unrelated note, Boxer should switch to SC2. His mechanics may have left him, but his creative mind and charisma are still there. Who knows what he might be able to accomplish in SC2?
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Kennigit/matchfixbanner.png)
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![[image loading]](http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt55/KinosJourney/bettingscandal.jpg)
