[MSL] Power Underwhelming - Page 10

Keniji

Netherlands2569 Posts

January 23 2010 16:50 GMT

#181

I think the decision of kespa was right. The more i think about it and with the VOD avaible I'm getting more and more safe in my opinion.

That in mind I think the real tragedy is what happened after the decision which totally fucked flash's mental state.
I don't lose the feeling jaedong got a kind of freewin in set 4 because of the this.

The best think to do would've been watching the vod (no replay avaible) with the players (and only the players!), explaining them why jaedong got the win/asking them about the opinion and go on with the set 4.

AsianEcksDragon

United States1036 Posts

January 23 2010 16:52 GMT

#182

The KESPA ref had to choose between a regame, which wouldn't do justice to Jaedong or handing Jaedong the game which would be unfair to Flash because he lost what little shot of a comeback he had. You can't blame KESPA this time, they were forced to make a difficult decision due to an unfortunate circumstance. If anything, MBC is at fault here for failing to maintain its studio.

Inzek

Chile802 Posts

January 23 2010 16:54 GMT

#183

First i think this is MSL fault, i think kespa's desition was right, BUT the whole thing never should have happen.
Why i think kespa was right, im comparing to other sports, for instance tennis if a game is cancelled, long enough that it cannot be continued the match goes for the one who was winning, even when in tennis comeback is always possible.

Second, this adds so much to the JD/Flash rivalrie... this rivalrie is becoming really epic. I mean, before this they were tied.
Previus series was won by a "cheese" (much more game-related than kespa's choice) but still controversial in terms of player skill.

Spo0ky

United States23 Posts

January 23 2010 16:54 GMT

#184

Mobster 1: "Jaedong has a clear advantage, now. Break the circuit."
Mobster 2: "Gotcha, boss."

(*Remote click* Bishhhhzzzoooouuum *power down*)

Mobster 1: "Well done. Our investors will be most satisfied."

TheBB

Switzerland5133 Posts

January 23 2010 16:56 GMT

#185

On January 24 2010 01:54 Inzek wrote:
Second, this adds so much to the JD/Flash rivalrie... this rivalrie is becoming really epic. I mean, before this they were tied.

I thought about this too. There's little doubt now that Jaedong vs Flash is the hottest rivalry, period. And I'm lovin' it.

Napoleon53

Denmark167 Posts

January 23 2010 16:59 GMT

#186

They should have chosen a regame, where (Z)

Jaedong would start with 5 drones.

neobowman

Canada3324 Posts

January 23 2010 17:00 GMT

#187

I swear, Flash had like mineral hacks that game. So much medicmarines.

checo

Mexico1364 Posts

January 23 2010 17:01 GMT

#188

just gay so damn anticlimatic, flash should have refuse to play game 4 just like that.

KwarK

United States43458 Posts

January 23 2010 17:03 GMT

#189

On January 24 2010 02:01 checo wrote:
just gay so damn anticlimatic, flash should have refuse to play game 4 just like that.

And then later than evening when he watches the vod and calms down somewhat he'll remember that the 2nd place prize he walked away from was 20,000,000 won.

IamAnton

Canada335 Posts

January 23 2010 17:04 GMT

#190

Nazgul really sums it up well. The Black out sucks yes! but that dosn't stop the fact that Flash was in a REALLY bad spot. I agree that the game was heavily in JD's favor, and making them RE on a map where JD had a large advantage would have been a worse decision.

moochu

Australia374 Posts

January 23 2010 17:05 GMT

#191

say they re-gamed and flash ended up winning 3-2 would you guys seriously have been happy with that?

bias-

United States410 Posts

January 23 2010 17:06 GMT

#192

I just posted int he Tourney thread requesting an official outlet for public reaction.. about 2 seconds afterward, here it is on the front page. Thanks Atrioc!

Weasel-

Canada1556 Posts

January 23 2010 17:08 GMT

#193

I think Flash has too much respect for Jaedong to refuse to play game 4.

samachking

Bahrain4949 Posts

January 23 2010 17:15 GMT

#194

There is one argument that I feel has not been given enough attention. And there is one assumption that is assumed behind most of the arguments here. Is the fact that a regame would mean a 50-50 situation for both players,however, this is clearly untrue. If you paid attention to JD's builds this entire series and especially this set, they were all set up ( and brilliant mind games by JD I might say) to hard counter whatever JD predicted Flash would do, and he did a optimal build at each set in reaction.

The thing is, the build JD used and probably prepared 80% of the time for on this map is not one that can be repeated, its a one time build. JD went 3hat before pool, which is the 14cc equivalent for Z in this mu except its a lot more risky. To proceed by choosing to opt for a hidden base + Crazy Zerg style, its a extremely gimmicky build, and Flash could hardcounter it many times. Not only that JD had to comeback from a huge deficit after losing his 3rd, he played the game of his life and got ahead SIGNIFICANTLY. Not a 75% to 25% lead, but a 90% lead, he secured 4 bases with 5 gas while expoing to a 5th base while as Flash has been running on 6 mineral patches and 2 depleted geysers.He can only pump what? 3-4rax + 1port max with that econ?

You might say that Flash had a 10% chance of winning that game and therefore a re should occur. But consider this situation from JD's perspective, he has the game in the bag for sure and by the largest chance he has it won in the next 2 minutes, 9:1 ratio of winning, so you decide to give him a re and give Flash a 6/7:4 ratio of winning? How fair is that? Thats completely unfair and from a very basic game theory perspective by any rational standards completely unfair considering the mind games and the one time nature of builds used in bo5s. The build JD used is not one that can be repeated.

This is not a 50-50 situation as many suppose here. Flash gains a lot more from the re than JD, from an completely lost game to a game where you are ahead by reading the build your opponent prepared zealously for beforehand and can counter on a extremely imbalanced map(Odd eye is basically tiamat 2.0 due to the difficulty of securing your expos due to their structure, and the only option is a 2hat muta contain build, and if you watched zergs games vs MnM on that map they tend to opt for 2hat muta into 3base 4gas gaurd all ins).

This is a lose-lose situation for both players, but JD had A LOT more to lose from that re compared to Flash and Kespa have made the proper decision by considering the situation and props to them for that.

I confess to being a JD fan and I had a write up planned in case JD won the finals to confirm his Bonjwahood(which sadly has to be delayed due to this incident.). But if you analyze and rewatch the game with a cool head and consider the nature of mind games in bo5s you'll realize this is a rational choice.

BloodDrunK

Bangladesh2767 Posts

January 23 2010 17:15 GMT

#195

the match was very much in the favor in the favor of JD.but i don't know if it was the right decision to award him the win even if he was ahead.i mean if it were a proleague match or a group match of MSL then i guess there wouldn't have been much argument.but when it's the finals and the steaks being so high i don't think so.the best thing would have been to just restart even if was against JD's favour.

Geo.Rion

7377 Posts

January 23 2010 17:18 GMT

#196

btw winners interview? Anyone?

Chill

Calgary25991 Posts

January 23 2010 17:22 GMT

#197

On January 24 2010 00:46 KwarK wrote:

Show nested quote +

I would be very surprised if Chill didn't conclude that JD was a long way ahead after watching the vod (and the last 30 seconds where Flash calls off his attack on 7 after JD rapes 20 more mnm). He knows enough about ZvT to know that ultras with swarm are imba and without tanks/mine/irradiate/firebats there's no way Flash could hold that 3rd. Everything was up in the air til just before the disc, Flash could still have maybe broken 7 etc but at the second of the disc the dust had settled and the outcome was clear. Obviously I don't expect him to change his mind about replay vs win but I would be shocked if any poster who knows what they're talking about can legitimately argue that Flash could hold off ultras under swarms from 5 gas.

Yea, I just rewatched the VOD and JD was ahead but I still don't feel right about the decision. I like giving the win only if it's obvious one player can't lose.

expostfacto

United States365 Posts

January 23 2010 17:30 GMT

#198

It's an unfortunate situation, but clearly awarding the game to Jaedong was less wrong than calling a regame, and was within the scope of their stated rules. If this is not consistent with decisions from 2 or 5 years ago, then I'm glad they had a better ref this time around.

Empyrean

17037 Posts

January 23 2010 17:31 GMT

#199

What are the Korean netizens saying about this?

EDIT: I actually feel really bad for NATE. They're one of SK's biggest internet portals and they've sponsored two starleagues, but they both ended up catastrophes. The first NATE league was an OSL I think, a long time ago (2002?), and a lot of the favorites were eliminated early, resulting in a Sync vs. HOT-Forever final. South Korea was also hosting the World Cup, so no one really cared about Sync and HOT-Forever.

And now this.

So unlucky :/

Sepiraph

Canada13 Posts

January 23 2010 17:34 GMT

#200

Not sure what is dumber, the fact that they didn't re-game or that they didn't have UPS as backup. If the blackout happened earlier right after Flash took out JD's 1 o'clock, would you agree that the game would be awarded to Flash instead?

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