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On September 14 2009 19:14 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2009 19:11 .risingdragoon wrote:On September 14 2009 19:01 Matoo- wrote:On September 14 2009 18:56 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:On September 14 2009 18:51 Matoo- wrote:On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:
Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else. The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite. Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France. Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea. They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying. I'm not sure you understand the situation here the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport. blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies. "I'm not sure you understand the situation here" Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM.
you need to read again then
what you're suggesting is insane
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On September 14 2009 18:18 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2009 17:30 Manifesto7 wrote:
Time for foriegners to fill in the void and make GOM international.
I know Tasteless is in America until Oct 3rd or so according to facebook. TSL 2 presented by GOM.
lolol
now if that was the case I'd be happy GOM died.
I'm honestly not sure if I am that sad about this, because I always feel sorry for the players who have to play in three different individual leagues at the same time.
But hmmm no more individual leagues with english coverage? what's tasteless gonna do?
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
On September 14 2009 18:56 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2009 18:51 Matoo- wrote:On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:
Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else. The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite. Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France. Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
I agree in the sense that I don't care too much about Kespa's involvement - or rather lack thereof - in GOM, but even that aside there are quite a few very valid reasons to hold a grudge against Kespa.
On September 14 2009 17:47 p4NDemik wrote:
Honestly I won't miss the tournament as a whole very much - there's just so many games being played when PL/MSL/OSL all get running at full speed, and GOM was never something I would make time to watch. I will however miss the chances to see unique/old-timer gamers in proper televised matches and not just prelims.
I kind of agree, I don't think I watched more than 4 or 5 playdays of GOM last season.
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On September 14 2009 18:58 iRRelevance wrote:
This ZvP is quite nice !!! GG now
Rofl
It kinda sucks but doesn't really matter, there will still be awesome SC games and awesome SC progamers, this just removes Tasteless/SDM from the equation. Sure they are cool and all but I think we'll live.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On September 14 2009 19:16 .risingdragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2009 19:14 motbob wrote:On September 14 2009 19:11 .risingdragoon wrote:On September 14 2009 19:01 Matoo- wrote:On September 14 2009 18:56 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:On September 14 2009 18:51 Matoo- wrote:On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:
Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else. The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite. Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France. Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea. They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying. I'm not sure you understand the situation here the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport. blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies. "I'm not sure you understand the situation here" Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM. you need to read again then what you're suggesting is insane
Why is it insane?
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On September 14 2009 19:20 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2009 19:16 .risingdragoon wrote:On September 14 2009 19:14 motbob wrote:On September 14 2009 19:11 .risingdragoon wrote:On September 14 2009 19:01 Matoo- wrote:On September 14 2009 18:56 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:On September 14 2009 18:51 Matoo- wrote:On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:
Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else. The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite. Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France. Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea. They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying. I'm not sure you understand the situation here the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport. blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies. "I'm not sure you understand the situation here" Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM. you need to read again then what you're suggesting is insane Why is it insane?
are you serious?
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That's pretty crap to hear, up until now I was refreshing the GOMtv page every day to get news on S4...
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On September 14 2009 19:21 .risingdragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2009 19:20 motbob wrote:On September 14 2009 19:16 .risingdragoon wrote:On September 14 2009 19:14 motbob wrote:On September 14 2009 19:11 .risingdragoon wrote:On September 14 2009 19:01 Matoo- wrote:On September 14 2009 18:56 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:On September 14 2009 18:51 Matoo- wrote:On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:
Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else. The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite. Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France. Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea. They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying. I'm not sure you understand the situation here the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport. blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies. "I'm not sure you understand the situation here" Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM. you need to read again then what you're suggesting is insane Why is it insane? are you serious?
There is nothing I hate more than someone being condescending to me. Stop it, please.
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On September 14 2009 19:14 motbob wrote:
Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM.
Yes, because Blizzard is all-mighty. It can just come into foreign land and decide how things will work. Typical American attitude.
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for gom, it makes little sense for them to partner with blizzard (a newcomer with no experience in the esports industry), when they can just work with kespa, who has a stranglehold on the industry and even has enough control to prevent progamers from entering non-kespa tournaments.
in fact this would be true for any korean instution, so it's basically a terrible idea for blizzard to try to enter the industry through a korean institution. it would also be a poor decision for any korean institution to partner with a kespa competitor. kespa will just crush them as they did right here.
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On September 14 2009 19:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2009 19:14 motbob wrote:
Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM. Yes, because Blizzard is all-mighty. It can just come into foreign land and decide how things will work. Typical American attitude.
It is their own game, they can do whatever they want with it.
I suggest KESPA create their own god damn game if they want control over it. Not like it is the first time Koreans just blatant copy someone else. See Sudden Attack & Kart Rider.
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On September 14 2009 19:32 Eury wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2009 19:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:On September 14 2009 19:14 motbob wrote:
Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM. Yes, because Blizzard is all-mighty. It can just come into foreign land and decide how things will work. Typical American attitude. It is their own game, they can do whatever they want with it. I suggest KESPA create their own god damn game if they want control over it. Not like it is the first time Koreans just blatant copy someone else. See Sudden Attack & Kart Rider.
how is kespa copying anything?
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On September 14 2009 19:24 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2009 19:21 .risingdragoon wrote:On September 14 2009 19:20 motbob wrote:On September 14 2009 19:16 .risingdragoon wrote:On September 14 2009 19:14 motbob wrote:On September 14 2009 19:11 .risingdragoon wrote:On September 14 2009 19:01 Matoo- wrote:On September 14 2009 18:56 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:On September 14 2009 18:51 Matoo- wrote:On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:
Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else. The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite. Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France. Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea. They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying. I'm not sure you understand the situation here the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport. blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies. "I'm not sure you understand the situation here" Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM. you need to read again then what you're suggesting is insane Why is it insane? are you serious? There is nothing I hate more than someone being condescending to me. Stop it, please.
you can't be that dense
people don't go to a baseball game to see a baseball and a bat and a dirt field, they go to see the players make magic. same thing here - people don't go to an esports game to see the starcraft graphics. the game is just the vehicle, like the ball. people go to see people.
it took years of hard work from organizers, commentators, money from the team sponsors and league sponsors, and dedication from the players to create korean esports. and you think they'll just lie down and die? all these years I've never heard of a blizzard starleague, have you? if all it took was for starcraft to be installed on a computer then anyone could've done it.
what you're suggesting, that blizz just waltz in and take the broadcasting rights and affiliate with the new kid gom, that'd kill Starleague and MSL. And best of all, which korean's gonna play in gom? that's exactly the situation we're in right now.
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pripple
Finland1714 Posts
well this sucks hard, was checking almost daily if there is news about S4 in GOM site..
i really liked Tasteless/SDM duo ;<
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On September 14 2009 19:36 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2009 19:32 Eury wrote:On September 14 2009 19:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:On September 14 2009 19:14 motbob wrote:
Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM. Yes, because Blizzard is all-mighty. It can just come into foreign land and decide how things will work. Typical American attitude. It is their own game, they can do whatever they want with it. I suggest KESPA create their own god damn game if they want control over it. Not like it is the first time Koreans just blatant copy someone else. See Sudden Attack & Kart Rider. how is kespa copying anything?
I said that it isn't unheard for Koreans to rip off games from the west/Japan, and make their own (inferior) copy of it. KESPA is a Korean organization with some serious power hunger issues, if they want to control E-sports in that degree I suggest they make their own game instead of living of other people's work.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
Kespa has another reason to kill GOM. They don't want another league competing for viewers. There's a lot of starcraft programming on OGN and MBCgame already. They don't want a 3rd channel (GOM) to steal away viewers from OGN and MBCgame.
I don't really watch many GOM games. I feel like players don't really care about it and therefore the quality of games tend to be low. But I hope Kespa takes this opportunity to start a english broadcast by picking up Tasteless, SDM, and Artosis to cast the games. If they expand esports coverage to places outside of Korea, they can stop blizzard from being the leader in the esports industry.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On September 14 2009 19:37 .risingdragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2009 19:24 motbob wrote:On September 14 2009 19:21 .risingdragoon wrote:On September 14 2009 19:20 motbob wrote:On September 14 2009 19:16 .risingdragoon wrote:On September 14 2009 19:14 motbob wrote:On September 14 2009 19:11 .risingdragoon wrote:On September 14 2009 19:01 Matoo- wrote:On September 14 2009 18:56 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:On September 14 2009 18:51 Matoo- wrote:
[quote]
The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite. Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France. Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea. They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying. I'm not sure you understand the situation here the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport. blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies. "I'm not sure you understand the situation here" Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM. you need to read again then what you're suggesting is insane Why is it insane? are you serious? There is nothing I hate more than someone being condescending to me. Stop it, please. you can't be that dense people don't go to a baseball game to see a baseball and a bat and a dirt field, they go to see the players make magic. same thing here - people don't go to an esports game to see the starcraft graphics. it took years of hard work from organizers, commentators, money from the team sponsors and league sponsors, and dedication from the players to create korean esports. and you think they'll just lie down and die? all these years I've never heard of a blizzard starleague, have you? if all it took was for starcraft to be installed on a computer then anyone could've done it. what you're suggesting, that blizz just waltz in and take the broadcasting rights and affiliate with the new kid gom, that'd kill Starleague and MSL. And best of all, which korean's gonna play in gom? that's exactly the situation we're in right now.
No, wtf. MSL and OSL dying? Why would they die? Kespa is not MBC/OGN.
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On September 14 2009 19:32 Eury wrote:
It is their own game, they can do whatever they want with it.
I suggest KESPA create their own god damn game if they want control over it. Not like it is the first time Koreans just blatant copy someone else. See Sudden Attack & Kart Rider.
WTF are you talking about? Why do you act like you know what you're talking about?
Blizzard has the right to SELL their game anywhere they like. They don't like how Korea does things, don't sell it there.
And stop being an ignorant racist. WTF does Sudden Attack and Kart Rider have to do with KeSPA? You're just going to equate games made in Korea to KeSPA? Are you that much of a moron?
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I have to agree with some that the other leagues hold more interest to me, but I'd still be very sad to see gom go. Especially the English casts. Just curious, but seems like a monopoly law violation. Now I dunno Korean law, nor any other all that well for that matter. Just seems strange to me that's all.
Still, RAGE!!!
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
I am seeing a large disparity in assholery between the side arguing against Blizzard taking the monopoly power away from Kespa and the side arguing for it.
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EPT
