"spoke to someone at GOM today, S4 is definitely in the works! no further information than that though... will keep you all posted!"
Update September 30
On September 30 2009 13:32 lilsusie wrote: (Changed the guy's name to protect identity)
Susan says: when is season 4 starting? many people are asking GOM guy says: oh.. 블리자드랑 케스파랑 협의 중이에요 (Blizzard and Kespa are in negotiations) 아마 12월쯤 (Possibly, December-ish) Susan says: ah, ok. thank you GOM guy says: ^^
Super Daniel Man just posted this on Twitter:
as of now I can safely say there won't be any more gomtv leagues with progamers in it.
Does anyone know more about this? I tried replying to it but don't expect him to respond. It would be a sad, sad day indeed if GOMTV isn't going to have a season 4, especially since they just got the backing of Blizzard.
Please post here if you hear anything more about this.
UPDATE
well, to make the long story short, under kespa there are 12 teams and most of them decided not to participate.
Also, a recent reply to this thread from Kennigit:
I spoke with daniel on msn a few hours ago. it's 100% real.
ANOTHER UPDATE
I just want to point out that I said "as of now" meaning it's pending, nothing was stated on the record.
Is there still hope?
More
to me it's pretty certain that league won't continue, at least not in the same fashion as last season,
nothing was stated on the record by them is what I meant, oh and everything I say is I do it of my own volition, and I always go on record!
I think tweeting is pretty much going on record lol, appropriate time to quote a movie I think Denzel washington in the movie
said one of the best lines in a movie " KING KONG AIN'T GOT SHIT ON ME". Damn I love that line, it's been part of my lingual for years now.
so that's what I say to ppl that got upset by my tweet here in Korea, particularly you know who, oh I also want to say to them,
OMG STX/KESPA/GOM DRAMA KEPT JULYZERG FROM GOING TO BLIZZCON
too bad julyzerg can't goto blizzcon I know how much that boy wanted to go, he was next in line to go, after flash and iris. STX stood by KESPA, hate it when players gets left out because of politics. Blizzard holding hands with GOMTV isn't affecting KESPA at all.
Comparing these two: "as of now I can safely say there won't be any more gomtv leagues" "as of now I can safely say there won't be any more gomtv leagues with progamers in it."
That is big I think. They might just be moving in a different direction.
On September 14 2009 17:08 motbob wrote: Tasteless is out of a job oh no, everyone panic
STX stood by KESPA, hate it when players gets left out because of politics. Blizzard holding hands with GOMTV isn't affecting KESPA at all.
Without STX I guess GOM decided to give up.
OMG STX/KESPA/GOM DRAMA KEPT JULYZERG FROM GOING TO BLIZZCON
too bad julyzerg can't goto blizzcon I know how much that boy wanted to go, he was next in line to go, after flash and iris.
THERE NEEDS TO BE 20 PAGES OF RAGE ABOUT THIS
I think he was referring to how July finished 4th in the tourney (needed 3rd to be considered)
"too bad julyzerg can't goto blizzcon I know how much that boy wanted to go, he was next in line to go, after flash and iris. STX stood by KESPA, hate it when players gets left out because of politics. Blizzard holding hands with GOMTV isn't affecting KESPA at all."
That was SDM's full statement (you have to read Twitter posts backwards.) It's clear that July couldn't go because of STX breaking with GOM.
I really want Blizzard to somehow intervene and fuck Kespa hard...
Oh man I loveeed GOM. Shouldn't the title read GOM 4 not 3? I was confused when I clicked the thread (although it clears up immediately after reading OP).
The blacklisting of gom really doesn't surprise me. Gom is supported by blizzard. Kespa doesn't want blizzard to encroach on their market so they are discouraging players from doing gom. When SC2 comes out kespa will get owned and back down or gom will become the main source for sc2.
Honestly I won't miss the tournament as a whole very much - there's just so many games being played when PL/MSL/OSL all get running at full speed, and GOM was never something I would make time to watch. I will however miss the chances to see unique/old-timer gamers in proper televised matches and not just prelims.
On September 14 2009 17:40 SpiritWolf wrote: The blacklisting of gom really doesn't surprise me. Gom is supported by blizzard. Kespa doesn't want blizzard to encroach on their market so they are discouraging players from doing gom. When SC2 comes out kespa will get owned and back down or gom will become the main source for sc2.
GOM decided not to cooperate with Kepsa before Blizzard even got involved from what I'm aware. Blizzard supported GOM in season 3, after a lot of teams decided not to participate.
On September 14 2009 17:40 SpiritWolf wrote: The blacklisting of gom really doesn't surprise me. Gom is supported by blizzard. Kespa doesn't want blizzard to encroach on their market so they are discouraging players from doing gom. When SC2 comes out kespa will get owned and back down or gom will become the main source for sc2.
GOM decided not to cooperate with Kepsa before Blizzard even got involved from what I'm aware. Blizzard supported GOM in season 3, after a lot of teams decided not to participate.
On September 14 2009 17:40 SpiritWolf wrote: The blacklisting of gom really doesn't surprise me. Gom is supported by blizzard. Kespa doesn't want blizzard to encroach on their market so they are discouraging players from doing gom. When SC2 comes out kespa will get owned and back down or gom will become the main source for sc2.
GOM decided not to cooperate with Kepsa before Blizzard even got involved from what I'm aware. Blizzard supported GOM in season 3, after a lot of teams decided not to participate.
True, but before gom wasnt large enough to be a real threat. With blizzards backing and starcraft 2 on the horizon gom has the potential to expand massively. kespa is putting alot of pressure on teams to not compete in gom in order to kill it before it can hurt their korean esports monopoly.
This sucks ass. If theres no more gomtv period, i hope ogn or mbc gets their shit together and hires tasteless, superdanielman and artosis so we can get more english casted pro sc.
Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else.
On September 14 2009 17:40 SpiritWolf wrote: The blacklisting of gom really doesn't surprise me. Gom is supported by blizzard. Kespa doesn't want blizzard to encroach on their market so they are discouraging players from doing gom. When SC2 comes out kespa will get owned and back down or gom will become the main source for sc2.
GOM decided not to cooperate with Kepsa before Blizzard even got involved from what I'm aware. Blizzard supported GOM in season 3, after a lot of teams decided not to participate.
True, but before gom wasnt large enough to be a real threat. With blizzards backing and starcraft 2 on the horizon gom has the potential to expand massively. kespa is putting alot of pressure on teams to not compete in gom in order to kill it before it can hurt their korean esports monopoly.
Then again moving from KeSPA to Blizzard monopoly doesn't sound that good either.
Suddenly new patch comes up and game is broken and there can't be new games because Blizzard controls what leagues to be played (b.net 2.0). Would be sad those players who get to play games with working patch and those who don't (they buffed, for example, zerg too much and suddenly there is going to be all zergs at top for few months messing up everything).
Wondering if b.net down because of hackers (or just maintenance, random server crash etc) so games can't start live because of that. Wonder if MBCGame or OGN would like that.
There are some/huge flaws how KeSPA makes things happen. Still e-sports is young business compared to other mainstream sports.
I am just scared if same thing will happen to SC2 as did to WC3. I just hope SC1 wont die too soon or else there would be soon only Sudden Attack to follow :D
Fuck KeSPA. I haven't heard anything positive about this idiots in so long. Seems every time I look they're disqualifying another gamer for coughing too loudly.
I don't care whether or not they're fighting to keep themselves relevant or not. Companies have the right to increase their profit margins by dubious practices, and we have the right not to buy their products. Seriously, fuck them.
Blizzard should release a SC patch specifically aimed to fuck these wankers.
Really, for me they could have killed Proleauge, the MSL or the OSL (or non at all )... BUT NOT GOM...
Let's just go on with tourneys with stupid preliminaries and a Proleague which just isn't as exciting as a BO3+ Tourney .... If they at least would bring back the Winner league format...
On September 14 2009 17:24 Chrispy wrote: Well then.
I think I speak for the entirety of Foreign Broodwar fans when I say...
Fuck you, Kespa!
You may speak on my behalf!
I don't deny Kespa has done a lot for BW and ESPORTS in general. But when was the last time they came up with something that was actually good for the players and/or the fans? DQ drama, Free agents, GOM, you name it... Last couple of years have seen terrible decisions by Kespa. I wouldn't mind them crashing and burning.
On September 14 2009 18:33 Alethios wrote: Fuck KeSPA. I haven't heard anything positive about this idiots in so long. Seems every time I look they're disqualifying another gamer for coughing too loudly.
I don't care whether or not they're fighting to keep themselves relevant or not. Companies have the right to increase their profit margins by dubious practices, and we have the right not to buy their products. Seriously, fuck them.
Blizzard should release a SC patch specifically aimed to fuck these wankers.
Let me spell it out for you.
Blizzard is trying to get into the Esports Market.
KeSPA wants to maintain dominance in the Esports Market in S. Korea.
All the things that have happened are because of this power struggle, basically. Blizzard made a move, KeSPA made a move. Yet, it's "fuck KeSPA?" It should be, let's see what happens because we have no say in the matter anyways.
On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote: Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else.
The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting korean e-sports in general, and doing stuff like helping out new leagues, defending players' rights etc - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
Why would Bliz continue to affiliate with gom when it has no pull in korea? It's baffling they made the move in the first place.
This is a kespa/blizzard issue, and as far as I'm concerned gom made a really stupid move by getting in the middle of that. It had been sanctioned by kespa already.
What are Tasteless and SDM going to do, when there are no games of any interest to cast? thats really sad, Tasteless made some huge sacrifices to support the foreign community with english speaking casts... just sad
On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote: Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else.
The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France.
Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote: Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else.
The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France.
Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying.
PS: I might add that South Korea is not known for having the cleanest business methods out there when it comes to heavy political or corporate interests.
On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote: Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else.
Doing something out of one's own interest isn't justification. You can say what they're doing is logical, smart, or whatever, but it doesn't necessarily mean that what they're doing is right.
As far as I'm concerned, they can do whatever they want. But when they start interfering with good tournaments and furthermore potential epic games, fuck them sideways.
These are, most certainly, Blizzard vs KeSPA power games in anticipation for Starcraft 2 and broadcasting rights. We have not seen the end of this yet...
On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote: Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else.
The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France.
Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying.
I'm not sure you understand the situation here
the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport.
blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies.
On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote: Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else.
The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France.
Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying.
PS: I might add that South Korea is not known for having the cleanest business methods out there when it comes to heavy political or corporate interests.
You're so naive and stupid.
I find easily find as much trash on French organizations but it would just be a waste of my time. Just like you are right now.
On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote: Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else.
The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France.
Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying.
I'm not sure you understand the situation here
the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport.
blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies.
On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote: Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else.
The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France.
Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying.
I'm not sure you understand the situation here
the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport.
blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies.
"I'm not sure you understand the situation here"
Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM.
-_- omg, i'm so sad. Gom TV is what seriously got me into esports with their english cast and now it just won't feel the same. I'm really gonna miss tasteless and SDM ;(
On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote: Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else.
The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France.
Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying.
PS: I might add that South Korea is not known for having the cleanest business methods out there when it comes to heavy political or corporate interests.
You're so naive and stupid.
I find easily find as much trash on French organizations but it would just be a waste of my time. Just like you are right now.
On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote: Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else.
The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France.
Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying.
I'm not sure you understand the situation here
the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport.
blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies.
"I'm not sure you understand the situation here"
Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM.
On September 14 2009 17:30 Manifesto7 wrote: Time for foriegners to fill in the void and make GOM international.
I know Tasteless is in America until Oct 3rd or so according to facebook.
TSL 2 presented by GOM.
lolol now if that was the case I'd be happy GOM died.
I'm honestly not sure if I am that sad about this, because I always feel sorry for the players who have to play in three different individual leagues at the same time.
But hmmm no more individual leagues with english coverage? what's tasteless gonna do?
On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote: Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else.
The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France.
Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
I agree in the sense that I don't care too much about Kespa's involvement - or rather lack thereof - in GOM, but even that aside there are quite a few very valid reasons to hold a grudge against Kespa.
On September 14 2009 17:47 p4NDemik wrote: Honestly I won't miss the tournament as a whole very much - there's just so many games being played when PL/MSL/OSL all get running at full speed, and GOM was never something I would make time to watch. I will however miss the chances to see unique/old-timer gamers in proper televised matches and not just prelims.
I kind of agree, I don't think I watched more than 4 or 5 playdays of GOM last season.
On September 14 2009 18:58 iRRelevance wrote: This ZvP is quite nice !!! GG now
Rofl
It kinda sucks but doesn't really matter, there will still be awesome SC games and awesome SC progamers, this just removes Tasteless/SDM from the equation. Sure they are cool and all but I think we'll live.
On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote: Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else.
The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France.
Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying.
I'm not sure you understand the situation here
the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport.
blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies.
"I'm not sure you understand the situation here"
Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM.
On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote: Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else.
The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France.
Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying.
I'm not sure you understand the situation here
the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport.
blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies.
"I'm not sure you understand the situation here"
Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM.
On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote: Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else.
The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France.
Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying.
I'm not sure you understand the situation here
the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport.
blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies.
"I'm not sure you understand the situation here"
Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM.
you need to read again then
what you're suggesting is insane
Why is it insane?
are you serious?
There is nothing I hate more than someone being condescending to me. Stop it, please.
On September 14 2009 19:14 motbob wrote: Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM.
Yes, because Blizzard is all-mighty. It can just come into foreign land and decide how things will work. Typical American attitude.
for gom, it makes little sense for them to partner with blizzard (a newcomer with no experience in the esports industry), when they can just work with kespa, who has a stranglehold on the industry and even has enough control to prevent progamers from entering non-kespa tournaments.
in fact this would be true for any korean instution, so it's basically a terrible idea for blizzard to try to enter the industry through a korean institution. it would also be a poor decision for any korean institution to partner with a kespa competitor. kespa will just crush them as they did right here.
On September 14 2009 19:14 motbob wrote: Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM.
Yes, because Blizzard is all-mighty. It can just come into foreign land and decide how things will work. Typical American attitude.
It is their own game, they can do whatever they want with it.
I suggest KESPA create their own god damn game if they want control over it. Not like it is the first time Koreans just blatant copy someone else. See Sudden Attack & Kart Rider.
On September 14 2009 19:14 motbob wrote: Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM.
Yes, because Blizzard is all-mighty. It can just come into foreign land and decide how things will work. Typical American attitude.
It is their own game, they can do whatever they want with it.
I suggest KESPA create their own god damn game if they want control over it. Not like it is the first time Koreans just blatant copy someone else. See Sudden Attack & Kart Rider.
On September 14 2009 18:29 ZeitgeistMovie wrote: Look, no one is in the "wrong" here. All parties are fighting for their interests. I wish people would stop being ignorant fools and stop blaming KeSPA. Every esthablishment will fight to keep themselves relevant. Nothing one is to blame here, maybe except the system because this is how the system works. This is just business/politics, and innocent people will suffer along the way. That's just the reality of it all. No one has all the information on the matter so picking sides is just jumping the gun and really useless. Just see how things play out and hope Esports survive in Korea, and grow everywhere else.
The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France.
Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying.
I'm not sure you understand the situation here
the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport.
blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies.
"I'm not sure you understand the situation here"
Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM.
you need to read again then
what you're suggesting is insane
Why is it insane?
are you serious?
There is nothing I hate more than someone being condescending to me. Stop it, please.
you can't be that dense
people don't go to a baseball game to see a baseball and a bat and a dirt field, they go to see the players make magic. same thing here - people don't go to an esports game to see the starcraft graphics. the game is just the vehicle, like the ball. people go to see people.
it took years of hard work from organizers, commentators, money from the team sponsors and league sponsors, and dedication from the players to create korean esports. and you think they'll just lie down and die? all these years I've never heard of a blizzard starleague, have you? if all it took was for starcraft to be installed on a computer then anyone could've done it.
what you're suggesting, that blizz just waltz in and take the broadcasting rights and affiliate with the new kid gom, that'd kill Starleague and MSL. And best of all, which korean's gonna play in gom? that's exactly the situation we're in right now.
On September 14 2009 19:14 motbob wrote: Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM.
Yes, because Blizzard is all-mighty. It can just come into foreign land and decide how things will work. Typical American attitude.
It is their own game, they can do whatever they want with it.
I suggest KESPA create their own god damn game if they want control over it. Not like it is the first time Koreans just blatant copy someone else. See Sudden Attack & Kart Rider.
how is kespa copying anything?
I said that it isn't unheard for Koreans to rip off games from the west/Japan, and make their own (inferior) copy of it. KESPA is a Korean organization with some serious power hunger issues, if they want to control E-sports in that degree I suggest they make their own game instead of living of other people's work.
Kespa has another reason to kill GOM. They don't want another league competing for viewers. There's a lot of starcraft programming on OGN and MBCgame already. They don't want a 3rd channel (GOM) to steal away viewers from OGN and MBCgame.
I don't really watch many GOM games. I feel like players don't really care about it and therefore the quality of games tend to be low. But I hope Kespa takes this opportunity to start a english broadcast by picking up Tasteless, SDM, and Artosis to cast the games. If they expand esports coverage to places outside of Korea, they can stop blizzard from being the leader in the esports industry.
On September 14 2009 18:51 Matoo- wrote: [quote] The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France.
Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying.
I'm not sure you understand the situation here
the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport.
blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies.
"I'm not sure you understand the situation here"
Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM.
you need to read again then
what you're suggesting is insane
Why is it insane?
are you serious?
There is nothing I hate more than someone being condescending to me. Stop it, please.
you can't be that dense
people don't go to a baseball game to see a baseball and a bat and a dirt field, they go to see the players make magic. same thing here - people don't go to an esports game to see the starcraft graphics.
it took years of hard work from organizers, commentators, money from the team sponsors and league sponsors, and dedication from the players to create korean esports. and you think they'll just lie down and die? all these years I've never heard of a blizzard starleague, have you? if all it took was for starcraft to be installed on a computer then anyone could've done it.
what you're suggesting, that blizz just waltz in and take the broadcasting rights and affiliate with the new kid gom, that'd kill Starleague and MSL. And best of all, which korean's gonna play in gom? that's exactly the situation we're in right now.
No, wtf. MSL and OSL dying? Why would they die? Kespa is not MBC/OGN.
It is their own game, they can do whatever they want with it.
I suggest KESPA create their own god damn game if they want control over it. Not like it is the first time Koreans just blatant copy someone else. See Sudden Attack & Kart Rider.
WTF are you talking about? Why do you act like you know what you're talking about?
Blizzard has the right to SELL their game anywhere they like. They don't like how Korea does things, don't sell it there.
And stop being an ignorant racist. WTF does Sudden Attack and Kart Rider have to do with KeSPA? You're just going to equate games made in Korea to KeSPA? Are you that much of a moron?
I have to agree with some that the other leagues hold more interest to me, but I'd still be very sad to see gom go. Especially the English casts. Just curious, but seems like a monopoly law violation. Now I dunno Korean law, nor any other all that well for that matter. Just seems strange to me that's all.
I am seeing a large disparity in assholery between the side arguing against Blizzard taking the monopoly power away from Kespa and the side arguing for it.
On September 14 2009 18:51 Matoo- wrote: [quote] The reason why many people hate KeSPA is that, beyond being just another greedy corporation, it was supposed to be promoting e-sports in general, and that includes things like helping out new leagues, defending players rights and stuff - but in reality KeSPA is doing the exact opposite.
Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France.
Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying.
I'm not sure you understand the situation here
the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport.
blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies.
"I'm not sure you understand the situation here"
Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM.
you need to read again then
what you're suggesting is insane
Why is it insane?
are you serious?
There is nothing I hate more than someone being condescending to me. Stop it, please.
you can't be that dense
people don't go to a baseball game to see a baseball and a bat and a dirt field, they go to see the players make magic. same thing here - people don't go to an esports game to see the starcraft graphics.
it took years of hard work from organizers, commentators, money from the team sponsors and league sponsors, and dedication from the players to create korean esports. and you think they'll just lie down and die? all these years I've never heard of a blizzard starleague, have you? if all it took was for starcraft to be installed on a computer then anyone could've done it.
what you're suggesting, that blizz just waltz in and take the broadcasting rights and affiliate with the new kid gom, that'd kill Starleague and MSL. And best of all, which korean's gonna play in gom? that's exactly the situation we're in right now.
Blizzard made the game, it is in their right to do whatever they want with it simple as that.
Now, if KESPA doesn't like that Blizzard take control over their own game when it comes to competitive gaming they can simply choose to not use the game. Use some other game, just like they did with Sudden Attack instead of Counterstrike.
It is their own game, they can do whatever they want with it.
I suggest KESPA create their own god damn game if they want control over it. Not like it is the first time Koreans just blatant copy someone else. See Sudden Attack & Kart Rider.
WTF are you talking about? Why do you act like you know what you're talking about?
Blizzard has the right to SELL their game anywhere they like. They don't like how Korea does things, don't sell it there.
And stop being an ignorant racist. WTF does Sudden Attack and Kart Rider have to do with KeSPA? You're just going to equate games made in Korea to KeSPA? Are you that much of a moron?
Stop spewing that racist bullshit around. Korean (and Chinese) companies ripping off foreign products isn't exactly unheard of. Just ask Japanese companies if you don't believe me.
If KeSPA don't like dealing with Blizzard then don't fucking use their game then. I'm sure some company is willing enough to make an inferior copy of Starcraft that they can use.
On September 14 2009 18:56 ZeitgeistMovie wrote: [quote]
Then you hate every single governing establishment in the world. Everyone that "hates" KeSPA is a moron because you can easily equate KeSPA's practices to every single established organization in the world. Yes, even in France.
Bottom line, is they are doing what they feel is in their best interests. Blizzard is doing the same things. In fact, NO LAN was one of their first move in attempting to plunder the Esports industry in Korea.
They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying.
I'm not sure you understand the situation here
the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport.
blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies.
"I'm not sure you understand the situation here"
Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM.
you need to read again then
what you're suggesting is insane
Why is it insane?
are you serious?
There is nothing I hate more than someone being condescending to me. Stop it, please.
you can't be that dense
people don't go to a baseball game to see a baseball and a bat and a dirt field, they go to see the players make magic. same thing here - people don't go to an esports game to see the starcraft graphics.
it took years of hard work from organizers, commentators, money from the team sponsors and league sponsors, and dedication from the players to create korean esports. and you think they'll just lie down and die? all these years I've never heard of a blizzard starleague, have you? if all it took was for starcraft to be installed on a computer then anyone could've done it.
what you're suggesting, that blizz just waltz in and take the broadcasting rights and affiliate with the new kid gom, that'd kill Starleague and MSL. And best of all, which korean's gonna play in gom? that's exactly the situation we're in right now.
No, wtf. MSL and OSL dying? Why would they die? Kespa is not MBC/OGN.
All the years of hard work is materialized in the form of broadcast. you think they'll give that up?
Kespa IS OGN/mbc, like it or not they need an entity like kespa to perform its all-inclusive functions. If not Kespa then it'll be another entity that is identical except in name. But it'll always be korean, cus they made it into what it is.
On September 14 2009 19:45 Eury wrote:
Blizzard made the game, it is in their right to do whatever they want with it simple as that.
Now, if KESPA doesn't like that Blizzard take control over their own game when it comes to competitive gaming they can simply choose to not use the game. Use some other game, just like they did with Sudden Attack instead of Counterstrike.
Yeah, and Blizzard won't be doing any business in Korea.
Don't you see the tradeoff here? It's no good for anybody. Used to be that blizzard just profitted indirectly, now they risk losing all of it.
You seem to be making some very strange assumptions about what Blizzard wants to do. Taking power away from Kespa does NOT mean only giving broadcast rights to GOM. Taking away the monopoly currently in place in Korea does NOT mean that Blizzard is planning to kill MSL/OSL.
Also, you said this:
Yeah, and Blizzard won't be doing any business in Korea.
lol wtf? GOM will be doing business in Korea with Blizzard, that's the whole point of this drama!
On September 14 2009 19:49 Eury wrote: Stop spewing that racist bullshit around. Korean (and Chinese) companies ripping off foreign products isn't exactly unheard of. Just ask Japanese companies if you don't believe me.
If KeSPA don't like dealing with Blizzard then don't fucking use their game then. I'm sure some company is willing enough to make an inferior copy of Starcraft that they can use.
Wow, Sweden really showing their racist side. It was there but at least you put it out in the open now.
-Somehow, it's KeSPA trying to "use" Blizzard's game, when it's going to be Blizzard that will try to sell the game.
-Somehow Koreans and Chinese (don't know how those guys got into the argument) companies are ripping of foreign products, when you personally have probably been ripping pro gamer builds in STARCRAFT for years ROFL!!! Any idiot can realize that anyone can accuse anyone of copying anything. You have to be lower than an idiot to realize that.
In conclusion, you're an ignorant racist who has no understanding of the issue. All you know is you want Starcraft 2 in the hands of good players who can play games that you can jerk off to.
On September 14 2009 19:01 Matoo- wrote: [quote] They are doing what is in the best interest of the companies they work for (most people on the KeSPA board belong to companies with interests at stake and are not independent at all), not what is in the best interest of korean e-sports in general (or in the best interest of pro-gamers in particular - see recent FA incident). That's the issue. It's not at all "just like every other organization out there". You're oversimplifying.
I'm not sure you understand the situation here
the companies are the life blood of esport, they sponsor the teams and the leagues. kespa has made dumb moves in the past, but it's still a korean institution, who is best at serving the needs of korean esport.
blizzard, or activisionblizzard profitted from the increased exposure and millions of additional sales, and yet they're now trying to muscle in on an industry they didn't create. It's like not being happy with a free pie that fell from the sky and demanding the sky for more pies.
"I'm not sure you understand the situation here"
Funny how you post this and then post 2 paragraphs of arguments that don't relate to each other at all. Also, Blizzard doesn't want complete control of a leagues. It would delegate the responsibility to a Korean institution of its choice... probably GOM.
you need to read again then
what you're suggesting is insane
Why is it insane?
are you serious?
There is nothing I hate more than someone being condescending to me. Stop it, please.
you can't be that dense
people don't go to a baseball game to see a baseball and a bat and a dirt field, they go to see the players make magic. same thing here - people don't go to an esports game to see the starcraft graphics.
it took years of hard work from organizers, commentators, money from the team sponsors and league sponsors, and dedication from the players to create korean esports. and you think they'll just lie down and die? all these years I've never heard of a blizzard starleague, have you? if all it took was for starcraft to be installed on a computer then anyone could've done it.
what you're suggesting, that blizz just waltz in and take the broadcasting rights and affiliate with the new kid gom, that'd kill Starleague and MSL. And best of all, which korean's gonna play in gom? that's exactly the situation we're in right now.
No, wtf. MSL and OSL dying? Why would they die? Kespa is not MBC/OGN.
All the years of hard work is materialized in the form of broadcast. you think they'll give that up?
Kespa IS OGN/mbc, like it or not they need an entity like kespa to perform its all-inclusive functions. If not Kespa then it'll be another entity that is identical except in name.
Blizzard made the game, it is in their right to do whatever they want with it simple as that.
Now, if KESPA doesn't like that Blizzard take control over their own game when it comes to competitive gaming they can simply choose to not use the game. Use some other game, just like they did with Sudden Attack instead of Counterstrike.
Yeah, and Blizzard won't be doing any business in Korea.
Don't you see the tradeoff here? It's no good for anybody. Used to be that blizzard just profitted indirectly, now they risk losing all of it.
They can do business in Korea without KeSPA. KeSPA has tried to threaten Blizzard with that they are going to use their influence to try to get Starcraft 2 a mature rating, which would limit its sale.
Even if KeSPA would be successful with that I'm not sure it would held up in court, and I have a feeling WTO would have a say about such shrewd business practice.
On September 14 2009 19:49 Eury wrote: Stop spewing that racist bullshit around. Korean (and Chinese) companies ripping off foreign products isn't exactly unheard of. Just ask Japanese companies if you don't believe me.
If KeSPA don't like dealing with Blizzard then don't fucking use their game then. I'm sure some company is willing enough to make an inferior copy of Starcraft that they can use.
Wow, Sweden really showing their racist side. It was there but at least you put it out in the open now.
-Somehow, it's KeSPA trying to "use" Blizzard's game, when it's going to be Blizzard that will try to sell the game.
-Somehow Koreans and Chinese (don't know how those guys got into the argument) companies are ripping of foreign products, when you personally have probably been ripping pro gamer builds in STARCRAFT for years ROFL!!! Any idiot can realize that anyone can accuse anyone of copying anything. You have to be lower than an idiot to realize that.
In conclusion, you're an ignorant racist who has no understanding of the issue. All you know is you want Starcraft 2 in the hands of good players who can play games that you can jerk off to.
On September 14 2009 19:49 Eury wrote: Stop spewing that racist bullshit around. Korean (and Chinese) companies ripping off foreign products isn't exactly unheard of. Just ask Japanese companies if you don't believe me.
If KeSPA don't like dealing with Blizzard then don't fucking use their game then. I'm sure some company is willing enough to make an inferior copy of Starcraft that they can use.
Wow, Sweden really showing their racist side. It was there but at least you put it out in the open now.
-Somehow, it's KeSPA trying to "use" Blizzard's game, when it's going to be Blizzard that will try to sell the game.
-Somehow Koreans and Chinese (don't know how those guys got into the argument) companies are ripping of foreign products, when you personally have probably been ripping pro gamer builds in STARCRAFT for years ROFL!!! Any idiot can realize that anyone can accuse anyone of copying anything. You have to be lower than an idiot to realize that.
In conclusion, you're an ignorant racist who has no understanding of the issue. All you know is you want Starcraft 2 in the hands of good players who can play games that you can jerk off to.
On September 14 2009 19:58 motbob wrote: This quote chain is too long, let me start over.
You seem to be making some very strange assumptions about what Blizzard wants to do. Taking power away from Kespa does NOT mean only giving broadcast rights to GOM. Taking away the monopoly currently in place in Korea does NOT mean that Blizzard is planning to kill MSL/OSL.
Yeah, and Blizzard won't be doing any business in Korea.
lol wtf? GOM will be doing business in Korea with Blizzard, that's the whole point of this drama!
Dude. The NFL is a monopoly on pro football in America. No one gives a damn because they have games every Sunday that people enjoy. No one in Korea gives a damn that KeSPA is the governing body of Esports in Korea.
GOM and KeSPA are NOT related as far as I know. GOM is the equivalence of OGN while KeSPA would be the equivalence of the NFLPA in America. How the hell would GOM replace KeSPA?
No more GOM? This has to be a joke... They are closing a league just because little Kespa does not want to share they toy? Great... GOM was my favorite "starleague" and on top of that the casting was really great... damn you kespa..
On September 14 2009 19:58 motbob wrote: This quote chain is too long, let me start over.
You seem to be making some very strange assumptions about what Blizzard wants to do. Taking power away from Kespa does NOT mean only giving broadcast rights to GOM. Taking away the monopoly currently in place in Korea does NOT mean that Blizzard is planning to kill MSL/OSL.
Also, you said this:
Yeah, and Blizzard won't be doing any business in Korea.
lol wtf? GOM will be doing business in Korea with Blizzard, that's the whole point of this drama!
No one in Korea gives a damn that KeSPA is the governing body of Esports in Korea.
OK, obviously you have not been following the issue closely at all. Three words: angry netizen comments.
On September 14 2009 19:49 Eury wrote: Stop spewing that racist bullshit around. Korean (and Chinese) companies ripping off foreign products isn't exactly unheard of. Just ask Japanese companies if you don't believe me.
If KeSPA don't like dealing with Blizzard then don't fucking use their game then. I'm sure some company is willing enough to make an inferior copy of Starcraft that they can use.
Wow, Sweden really showing their racist side. It was there but at least you put it out in the open now.
-Somehow, it's KeSPA trying to "use" Blizzard's game, when it's going to be Blizzard that will try to sell the game.
-Somehow Koreans and Chinese (don't know how those guys got into the argument) companies are ripping of foreign products, when you personally have probably been ripping pro gamer builds in STARCRAFT for years ROFL!!! Any idiot can realize that anyone can accuse anyone of copying anything. You have to be lower than an idiot to realize that.
In conclusion, you're an ignorant racist who has no understanding of the issue. All you know is you want Starcraft 2 in the hands of good players who can play games that you can jerk off to.
You are really not making much sense. First of all you seem to share, the unfortunately too common mind set in Korea, that everything revolves around race. I don't represent my whole country sorry to say, it is my own opinions that my fellow countrymen may or may not share, it is really besides the point though.
KeSPA is using Starcraft in their business, I don't see how anyone could argue against that?
Internet cafes in Korea didn't feel like paying Steam for Counterstrike so they ripped off the game and made Sudden Attack instead. I suggest KeSPA do the same with Starcraft seeing as they don't want to deal with Blizzard, and considering blatant ripping off a product is neither illegal or seems to be a big deal in Korea they can do that just fine, or am I wrong?
Your rant about my lust for pro-gamers is such inane that it isn't even worth comment about.
On September 14 2009 19:58 motbob wrote: This quote chain is too long, let me start over.
You seem to be making some very strange assumptions about what Blizzard wants to do. Taking power away from Kespa does NOT mean only giving broadcast rights to GOM. Taking away the monopoly currently in place in Korea does NOT mean that Blizzard is planning to kill MSL/OSL.
Yeah, and Blizzard won't be doing any business in Korea.
lol wtf? GOM will be doing business in Korea with Blizzard, that's the whole point of this drama!
First of all, I don't know why you think they want the broadcast rights, that's never gonna happen. I always figured they're in it for a slice of the profit. Esports is a homegrown industry made possible by years of continuous efforts, broadcast is the fruit of those efforts, it's what makes 2 stations and various internet stations possible. Taking that means taking everything.
And the korean government has Kespa's back. They know what's at stake here. If activisionBlizzard forces their hand, they'll give it a deathrole rating like AO or some such, making it near impossible to do real business there. Not to mention there won't be enough fans to support any type of leagues.
On September 14 2009 19:58 motbob wrote: This quote chain is too long, let me start over.
You seem to be making some very strange assumptions about what Blizzard wants to do. Taking power away from Kespa does NOT mean only giving broadcast rights to GOM. Taking away the monopoly currently in place in Korea does NOT mean that Blizzard is planning to kill MSL/OSL.
Also, you said this:
Yeah, and Blizzard won't be doing any business in Korea.
lol wtf? GOM will be doing business in Korea with Blizzard, that's the whole point of this drama!
And the korean government has Kespa's back. They know what's at stake here. If activisionBlizzard forces their hand, they'll give it a deathrole rating like AO or some such, making it near impossible to do real business there. Not to mention there won't be enough fans to support any type of leagues.
The nuclear option, eh? I hadn't thought of that... depressing
On September 14 2009 20:20 tirentu wrote: I'll keep it simple. Fuck KeSPA!
It's not that type of discussion anymore, stupid.
It used to be korean vs korean. Now it's a foreign interest vs korean protecting their homegrown interest. There's an element of identity here now. Blizzard makes the game but they don't control the players. The players are the real value here, the game's just a platform.
On September 14 2009 20:20 tirentu wrote: I'll keep it simple. Fuck KeSPA!
It's not that type of discussion anymore, stupid.
It used to be korean vs korean. Now it's a foreign interest vs korean protecting their homegrown interest. There's an element of identity here now. Blizzard makes the game but they don't control the players. The players are the real value here, the game's just a platform.
Players can be found everywhere. If people like Ret and Nony become the new stars of SC2 instead of Bisu and Jaedong, all the better for us TBH.
Have to remember that KeSPA has official support for government and if you don't have pro license earning will be hard (tournament winnings been taxed highly without KeSPA approval). Wonder what SC2 players would like that?
On September 14 2009 20:20 tirentu wrote: I'll keep it simple. Fuck KeSPA!
It's not that type of discussion anymore, stupid.
It used to be korean vs korean. Now it's a foreign interest vs korean protecting their homegrown interest. There's an element of identity here now. Blizzard makes the game but they don't control the players. The players are the real value here, the game's just a platform.
Players can be found everywhere. If people like Ret and Nony become the new stars of SC2 instead of Bisu and Jaedong, all the better for us TBH.
I said identity haven't I? Who in korea's gonna watch the subpar performance of ret and nony?
That's like Americans watching countries weak in basketball playing eachother. Never gonna happen.
On September 14 2009 20:20 tirentu wrote: I'll keep it simple. Fuck KeSPA!
It's not that type of discussion anymore, stupid.
It used to be korean vs korean. Now it's a foreign interest vs korean protecting their homegrown interest. There's an element of identity here now. Blizzard makes the game but they don't control the players. The players are the real value here, the game's just a platform.
Players can be found everywhere. If people like Ret and Nony become the new stars of SC2 instead of Bisu and Jaedong, all the better for us TBH.
I said identity haven't I? Who in korea's gonna watch the subpar performance of ret and nony?
Who cares lol? Let Bisu and Jaedong play their games on whatever Korean game developers whip up. I'll be happy watching the foreign scene.
EDIT: the above is missing the point. I'm sorry. Let me write another post that's more accurate.
On September 14 2009 20:20 tirentu wrote: I'll keep it simple. Fuck KeSPA!
It's not that type of discussion anymore, stupid.
It used to be korean vs korean. Now it's a foreign interest vs korean protecting their homegrown interest. There's an element of identity here now. Blizzard makes the game but they don't control the players. The players are the real value here, the game's just a platform.
Players can be found everywhere. If people like Ret and Nony become the new stars of SC2 instead of Bisu and Jaedong, all the better for us TBH.
I said identity haven't I? Who in korea's gonna watch the subpar performance of ret and nony?
On September 14 2009 20:20 tirentu wrote: I'll keep it simple. Fuck KeSPA!
It's not that type of discussion anymore, stupid.
It used to be korean vs korean. Now it's a foreign interest vs korean protecting their homegrown interest. There's an element of identity here now. Blizzard makes the game but they don't control the players. The players are the real value here, the game's just a platform.
Players can be found everywhere. If people like Ret and Nony become the new stars of SC2 instead of Bisu and Jaedong, all the better for us TBH.
I said identity haven't I? Who in korea's gonna watch the subpar performance of ret and nony?
Who cares lol? Let Bisu and Jaedong play their games on whatever Korean game developers whip up. I'll be happy watching the foreign scene.
EDIT: the above is missing the point. I'm sorry. Let me write another post that's more accurate.
Foreign scene is not korean scene. Last I checked nobody's fighting over international broadcasting right here. That's cus everything's already in place in korea.
If Bliz just wanted international there wouldn't be all this BS. They want korean.
On September 14 2009 19:58 motbob wrote: This quote chain is too long, let me start over.
You seem to be making some very strange assumptions about what Blizzard wants to do. Taking power away from Kespa does NOT mean only giving broadcast rights to GOM. Taking away the monopoly currently in place in Korea does NOT mean that Blizzard is planning to kill MSL/OSL.
Also, you said this:
Yeah, and Blizzard won't be doing any business in Korea.
lol wtf? GOM will be doing business in Korea with Blizzard, that's the whole point of this drama!
First of all, I don't know why you think they want the broadcast rights, that's never gonna happen. I always figured they're in it for a slice of the profit. Esports is a homegrown industry made possible by years of continuous efforts, broadcast is the fruit of those efforts, it's what makes 2 stations and various internet stations possible. Taking that means taking everything.
And the korean government has Kespa's back. They know what's at stake here. If activisionBlizzard forces their hand, they'll give it a deathrole rating like AO or some such, making it near impossible to do real business there. Not to mention there won't be enough fans to support any type of leagues.
KeSPA did a lot for E-Sports in the past. They added some of the much needed professionalism in E-Sports, but ever since Starcraft's popularity in Korea peaked (around 2006 or so) they seem to do their best to do as much harm as possible to E-Sports.
KeSPA has desperately in the last couple of years tried to find alternatives to Starcraft without major success. Games like Sudden Attack is getting more popular but it is far from Starcraft's level, and I'm not sure KeSPA will be able to operate as they have in the past without Starcraft 2.
I also wonder how strong the government backing of KeSPA is. Last time I checked Korea was a member of WTO, and getting a complaint there is quite a big deal. Activision-Blizzard is owned by Vivendi, which isn't a small company, and that have plenty of contacts if needed.
On September 14 2009 19:58 motbob wrote: This quote chain is too long, let me start over.
You seem to be making some very strange assumptions about what Blizzard wants to do. Taking power away from Kespa does NOT mean only giving broadcast rights to GOM. Taking away the monopoly currently in place in Korea does NOT mean that Blizzard is planning to kill MSL/OSL.
Also, you said this:
Yeah, and Blizzard won't be doing any business in Korea.
lol wtf? GOM will be doing business in Korea with Blizzard, that's the whole point of this drama!
First of all, I don't know why you think they want the broadcast rights, that's never gonna happen. I always figured they're in it for a slice of the profit. Esports is a homegrown industry made possible by years of continuous efforts, broadcast is the fruit of those efforts, it's what makes 2 stations and various internet stations possible. Taking that means taking everything.
And the korean government has Kespa's back. They know what's at stake here. If activisionBlizzard forces their hand, they'll give it a deathrole rating like AO or some such, making it near impossible to do real business there. Not to mention there won't be enough fans to support any type of leagues.
I also wonder how strong the government backing of KeSPA is. Last time I checked Korea was a member of WTO, and getting a complaint there is quite a big deal. Activision-Blizzard is owned by Vivendi, which isn't a small company, and that have plenty of contacts if needed.
If this happened, the drama would just hit epic levels.
This sux so much. Yes there are a lot of other great starcraft games to watch, but the addition of SDM and Tasteless was what made me watch all the GOM VODs. Without such great commentators it's just not the same ._.
Working for a games company myself, I have to say this whole situation is very interesting.
Up until recently, no games company has tried to actively participate in broadcasting e-sports. This has been left up to the community as a whole, with the attitude that games developers are there to make games. It was also a case that most events are not profitable enough to justify doing this.
Blizzard has been the first to really change the trend with World of Warcraft, and now it seems with Starcraft. However, there has also never been a monopoly on e-sports such as Kespa holds over SC in Korea. This is likely due to how advanced e-sports is there compared to anywhere else in the world.
As there is no precedent, it's really hard to say who is "right" or "wrong" here. However, it would be nice to see cooperation between the two to provide an even better service than currentlly.
KeSPA stooge #1: "So, SC2 is almost out. Suggestions on how to generate the most hate, and make things as complicated for ourselves as possible?" KeSPA stooge #2: "War with Blizzard?" KeSPA stooge #1: "Love it!"
It's really hard to take sides. Kespa has made korean Starcraft but they are making so many idiotic decisions lately, and now this war with Blizzard. It wont end up good. But there's always hope!
Every time KESPA does something stupid like this, they declare war on not only Blizzard and the games upon which their power is based, but also the fandom in general, the source of their revenue. And I think, if this season's share of KESPA meddlings is any indication, one thing is becoming very, very clear:
On September 14 2009 17:47 p4NDemik wrote: Honestly I won't miss the tournament as a whole very much - there's just so many games being played when PL/MSL/OSL all get running at full speed, and GOM was never something I would make time to watch. I will however miss the chances to see unique/old-timer gamers in proper televised matches and not just prelims.
this is pretty much how I feel. Every season got progressively less interesting to me. In Season 3 the ONLY games I watch were the ones July played in.
The game quality just isn't that good and the casting isn't that great, and there are just too many games going on between all the leagues.
As someone new to the game that doesn't speak Korean, I have to say this is a real let down. I've almost tapped out my resources of non-youtube English VODs.
On September 14 2009 22:20 Cyrox wrote: It's really hard to take sides. Kespa has made korean Starcraft but they are making so many idiotic decisions lately, and now this war with Blizzard. It wont end up good. But there's always hope!
How is it hard to take sides against a group as power-drunk as Kespa?
On September 14 2009 18:56 Thesecretaznman wrote: This makes me sad, since Tasteless/GOMTV is what made me interested in SC/Progaming in the first place. -_-"
On September 14 2009 17:40 SpiritWolf wrote: The blacklisting of gom really doesn't surprise me. Gom is supported by blizzard. Kespa doesn't want blizzard to encroach on their market so they are discouraging players from doing gom. When SC2 comes out kespa will get owned and back down or gom will become the main source for sc2.
On September 14 2009 21:37 FrozenArbiter wrote: KESPA board meeting:
KeSPA stooge #1: "So, SC2 is almost out. Suggestions on how to generate the most hate, and make things as complicated for ourselves as possible?" KeSPA stooge #2: "War with Blizzard?" KeSPA stooge #1: "Love it!"
Granted that KeSPA really made E-Sports to what it is today, this isn't actually the right way. I mean.. why would you have a motive of promoting E-Sports around the world but be unwilling to give up partial control of your industry?
Cooperation is the only way that this industry will be able to expand further but I just don't see it happening. It really saddens me that it has come to this point where a league has been closed down due to differences in the interests of both companies. Its like a teacher not wanting his student to be smarter than he is just because he feels envious that he would be better than him.
Nooooooooooooooooo. This is terrible news I love Gom.
So much for Kespa promoting e-sports this will devastate the growth of e-sports outside Korea.
This means all out war and I know whos side i will be on and who will win. Kespa have just shot themselves in the foot. They need Blizzard for SC2 and Blizzard is far more powerful than Kespa. There only option was to negotiate but now its to late.
When SC2 comes out Kespa will no doubt try and ignore it but eventually as it becomes better balanced people will only want to watch SC2. Kespa will die.
On September 14 2009 18:56 Thesecretaznman wrote: This makes me sad, since Tasteless/GOMTV is what made me interested in SC/Progaming in the first place. -_-"
On September 14 2009 17:30 Manifesto7 wrote: Time for foriegners to fill in the void and make GOM international.
I know Tasteless is in America until Oct 3rd or so according to facebook.
A new business model for GOM?
-Foreign sponsors -Foreign players -Professional casters -Top foreigners go to Blizzcon? Top foreigners get flown to Korea for the finals?
LOTS of people watch GOM. It's got a huge following outside of TL.
Yes! I agree to both of them!
Well, if you look closely.. if GOM cannot merchandise itself in Korea then there could be a big chance that it will try sale e-sports to a different country. (US or any 1st world country i suppose)
But, I'm just trying to pull something positive with all this racket.. In due time, if ever both this quotes are correct then, we can have our own e-sports SC2 style!
On September 14 2009 18:56 Thesecretaznman wrote: This makes me sad, since Tasteless/GOMTV is what made me interested in SC/Progaming in the first place. -_-"
With the obvious eventual delay of SC 2 (hey its Blizzard) out of the way, this would be the worst possible SC (in any way) related news there could be.
GOM offered a package random vods in korean cannot even possibly hope to match. I got tournament trees presented to me, analysis of players and the games that i could actually understand and so I had a good grip about everything regarding the tournament. That GOM didnt have the highest status in Korea has always been irrelevant to me.
Yeah, you guys here on TL do write ups and what not regarding the other leagues, but it doesnt compare to having them served and explained as part of a cast.
RIP GOM. I hope Tasteless and SDM dont get caught up in other things before SC2, and that we will see them return in some capacity, hopefully having Artosis as a new member of the team.
this is terrible, GOM was the BEST league. Pretty much the only one that gave a shit about non koreans watching. One good thing about SC2 Kespa will get kicked to the curb.
This is a sad day, like many people, GOM was how I really got into watching pro SC, the broadcast time for me was good, and for a long time it was just about the only league I watched, and even then the only league I watched live, due to my incopetence of getting a working stream for proleague.
To those that say "all parties are just protecting their interests, you bunch of racists", until some losens the screws on whoever or OGN/MBC get english commentry, I will firmly remain a member of the fuck Kespa brigade.
On September 15 2009 01:18 Postaljester wrote: this is terrible, GOM was the BEST league. Pretty much the only one that gave a shit about non koreans watching. One good thing about SC2 Kespa will get kicked to the curb.
On September 15 2009 01:18 Postaljester wrote: this is terrible, GOM was the BEST league. Pretty much the only one that gave a shit about non koreans watching. One good thing about SC2 Kespa will get kicked to the curb.
eh.... GOM was NOT the best league lol
that's your opinion. I personally thought it was the best if not at least equal with any other league. and the fact that they provided English coverage showed that they at least cared about foreign fans.
That's really sad news. The GOM tourneys were always intersting to watch and actually I only started to follow SC because of the awesome casts of Tasteless/Lil Susie (I know many here complained about her, but she was a good Tasteless counterpart) and of course Superdanielman.
Good move kespa, edge out the league that is targeting a market you have no interest in and was bringing in new viewers from a side of the world you didn't do shit with.
Well played! Solid way to keep your business expanding.
GOM is not KeSPA-sanctioned, but is that really the reason teams are not interested in participating? I read SDM's second tweet as "most teams decided not to participate in GOM of their own volition". I agree KeSPA can be criticized for not sanctioning the league, but wasn't it ultimately the teams themselves, not KeSPA, that doomed GOM by refusing to participate? It could simply be that the teams didn't want to overload their schedules, and decided not to play GOM fairly independently of KeSPA's decision not to sanction it.
On September 14 2009 17:14 SnowFantasy wrote: Hmmm.
Comparing these two: "as of now I can safely say there won't be any more gomtv leagues" "as of now I can safely say there won't be any more gomtv leagues with progamers in it."
That is big I think. They might just be moving in a different direction.
Please tell me how much you enjoy foreigner/amateur games after getting used to the level Korean progamers play on. For me, I can barely watch it, which means a season 4 without progamers won't be very exciting.
Clearly just positioning between KESPA and Blizzard who both want a monopoly on korean broadcasting (where most of the ESPORTS money is). It has to be close to impossible to judge which monopoly will do best for the viewing public but for blizzard to retain the broadcasting rights is for them to take a right from everyone who plays the game, probably we don't care about that right but I have no idea what the legality of livestreams will be.
It seems crazy for KESPA to move against Blizzard as Blizzard will almost certainly control the broadcasting rights, but if GOM isn't positioned to be able to broadcast at the time of SC2 release I guess its possible that Blizzard might look to deal with KESPA?
On September 15 2009 01:46 JWD wrote: GOM is not KeSPA-sanctioned, but is that really the reason teams are not interested in participating? I read SDM's second tweet as "most teams decided not to participate in GOM of their own volition". I agree KeSPA can be criticized for not sanctioning the league, but wasn't it ultimately the teams themselves, not KeSPA, that doomed GOM by refusing to participate? It could simply be that the teams didn't want to overload their schedules, and decided not to play GOM fairly independently of KeSPA's decision not to sanction it.
KeSPA-haters in this thread, please explain!
happy birthday.
anyways, to answer your question it's fairly obvious that kespa pressured teams into not participating. there's no reasonable argument for teams (outside of mbc and ogn of course) to prevent their players from participating, especially when there's more benefits to letting players in GOM than preventing them. benefits include making players happy thanks to a third individual league in which to win prize and prestige, making fans happy due to more play-time of their favorite players/teams, making sponsors happy due to more screen-time of their logos and brand names. the only downfall i can think of is maybe less practice time for proleague. that isn't enough to justify a boycott of the league so the only remaining explanation is that kespa pressured teams into boycotting so that they could kill their rival (gom/blizzard).
On September 15 2009 01:46 JWD wrote: GOM is not KeSPA-sanctioned, but is that really the reason teams are not interested in participating? I read SDM's second tweet as "most teams decided not to participate in GOM of their own volition". I agree KeSPA can be criticized for not sanctioning the league, but wasn't it ultimately the teams themselves, not KeSPA, that doomed GOM by refusing to participate? It could simply be that the teams didn't want to overload their schedules, and decided not to play GOM fairly independently of KeSPA's decision not to sanction it.
KeSPA-haters in this thread, please explain!
Every time this issue has come up in the past (like when a few teams didn't participate last season, or when they thought they had KeSPA sanctioning but didn't and kept trying to get it) Dan has always implied that pressure directly from KeSPA was the reason why. I can't think of anything offhand that he explicitly said so maybe you are right, in which case I still think they are absurdly stupid in not choosing together to make it easy for a company who is only expanding their market to exist alongside the Korean establishment.
Just to be clear, I think the most plausible explanation is that KeSPA did, either directly or indirectly by not sanctioning the league, doom GOM.
Does anyone know if the lack of KeSPA support somehow made GOM less attractive to teams (in obvious ways, like less prize money or something)? If there's no obvious association between lack of KeSPA sanction and a league's desirability for teams involved, we can assume with greater certainty that KeSPA in some way bullied teams out of GOM.
On September 15 2009 01:53 volcane wrote: It seems crazy for KESPA to move against Blizzard as Blizzard will almost certainly control the broadcasting rights, but if GOM isn't positioned to be able to broadcast at the time of SC2 release I guess its possible that Blizzard might look to deal with KESPA?
Its not important what form of broadcasting is available at release. There will be a certain time to allow SC 1 leagues to finish off. Initial sales, which should be insane, will not be effected by it being on tv or not.
After the rounds of SC 1 being played at release have finished, there will be pressure to have it on tv, since everyone is playing it. As mentioned before, this is about money. Blizzard will strike a deal with whoever they need to partner with. If the only option is KESPA, then they will work with KESPA.
On September 15 2009 02:02 JWD wrote: Does anyone know if the lack of KeSPA support somehow made GOM less attractive to teams (in obvious ways, like less prize money or something)?
What I claim now may be complete bs, but afaik this is how it went last season:
GOM was not sanctioned by Kespa.
The SKT1 owner is a big shot in KESPA. They did not take part in the tournament.
The MBC and OGN teams did not take part last season. The tournament was not an official KESPA tournament, and as such, they would only have supported a "rogue" tournament run by a rival television channel.
This season leading to the tournament being cancelled:
So last season you have 3 teams sitting out, which imo points to a snowballing effect regarding teams dropping out this current season. No doubt the GOM tournament was discussed by KESPA during the offseason, and I'd guess they did lobby work to have the other teams sit out as well.
On September 15 2009 02:02 JWD wrote: Does anyone know if the lack of KeSPA support somehow made GOM less attractive to teams (in obvious ways, like less prize money or something)? If there's no obvious association between lack of KeSPA sanction and a league's desirability for teams involved, we can assume with greater certainty that KeSPA in some way bullied teams out of GOM.
I would love to get some more insight on this too, maybe Dan will do a MUMBOJUMBO on it or something.
ASdlasdl What's going to happen to tasteless?! (and danielman)
I suppose if people end up enjoying watching foreigners play enough, he could be fine Also I suppose with sc2 on the horizon this is the least of his worries. Still, wtf @ killing the only league with consistently good english commentary.
I don't see how this move benefits Kespa at all. They may take their ball and go home, but if this annoys Blizzard enough, they can take the court and go home.
On September 15 2009 02:39 Mullet_Power wrote: I don't see how this move benefits Kespa at all. They may take their ball and go home, but if this annoys Blizzard enough, they can take the court and go home.
They control the only leagues in Korea. How does that not benefit them?
Blizzards game they should decide everything that happens with it. Simply they didn't have a all encompassing ToC's that looked out for broadcasting games is all.
Kespa is hopefully in its death throws before SC2. When SC2 comes out we can hope a more international Starcraft Community that isn't just centered around S.Korea comes about which is 10x larger then the current community outside of S.Korea.
Its in Blizzards interest to make things fair for everyone and more accessible and stuff. I mean we have to rely on recorded streams and stuff just to see the pro-games atm. Blizzard wants to change this and i'm sure it will be for the best as they've got the muscle to make SC2 popular globablly on a scale never seen before.
So, feel the rage against the evil that is Kespa and wait for SC2 for things to settle. I suspect Kespa & Blizzard will come to an arrangement simply because Kespa is the dominant force in S.Korea atm.
I get the feeling that this is more Kespa trying to get back at Blizzard than anything else and poor Gom got caught in the middle. I am very disappointed though. GomTV is what really got me interested in Pro Gaming.
GOMtv just makes StarCraft more accessible to foreigners, who in turn try their hardest to watch the rest of the KESPA sanctioned events. What the hell are they thinking? It's not like GOMtv and the rest are substitutable goods -- most people who watch one probably want to watch the other, too.
Stupid, stupid. Who knows what is going to happen with SC2... they may delay the growth of Korean eSports and ruin SC.
On September 14 2009 17:14 SnowFantasy wrote: Hmmm.
Comparing these two: "as of now I can safely say there won't be any more gomtv leagues" "as of now I can safely say there won't be any more gomtv leagues with progamers in it."
That is big I think. They might just be moving in a different direction.
Please tell me how much you enjoy foreigner/amateur games after getting used to the level Korean progamers play on. For me, I can barely watch it, which means a season 4 without progamers won't be very exciting.
There are plenty of great non koreans if you ask me, if they all played more regularly. If they got more attention/money, (and thus took less breaks from starcraft) I could be more than happy with the foreigner scene.
I just hope GOMtv and tasteless get something going that we can support until SC2 is out.
On September 15 2009 02:39 Mullet_Power wrote: I don't see how this move benefits Kespa at all. They may take their ball and go home, but if this annoys Blizzard enough, they can take the court and go home.
They control the only leagues in Korea. How does that not benefit them?
Mike Morhaime might decide he has enough profits with WoW that he's willing to lose some Starcraft licensing profits to teach somebody a lesson.
Fucking dogs! They really fuck up so much about this game we all love. I'm not even sure how many rageworthy fuck-for-brains moments we've had this year.
On September 15 2009 02:39 Mullet_Power wrote: I don't see how this move benefits Kespa at all. They may take their ball and go home, but if this annoys Blizzard enough, they can take the court and go home.
They control the only leagues in Korea. How does that not benefit them?
Mike Morhaime might decide he has enough profits with WoW that he's willing to lose some Starcraft licensing profits to teach somebody a lesson.
By doing what? What right does Blizzard have to do anything? If anything, the 9 years of having professional starcraft leagues have grandfathered them in.
On September 15 2009 03:43 Duke wrote: im fucking freaky furious. gom is the only league where i would watch every single game..
This. The only place I could look towards english commentary consistently, this is a blow to SC and the community as a whole. Seeing the direction kespa has been going, i''m not having a good feeling about this :|.
On September 14 2009 21:37 FrozenArbiter wrote: KESPA board meeting:
KeSPA stooge #1: "So, SC2 is almost out. Suggestions on how to generate the most hate, and make things as complicated for ourselves as possible?" KeSPA stooge #2: "War with Blizzard?" KeSPA stooge #1: "Love it!"
Blizzard is both saving and screwing up esports right now. Blizzard made a product (Starcraft) that defines esports and really made it possible to get the ball rolling. However, they did not do it themselves. Someone else took up the task, and it was a hell of a task. It's very unfortunate that no games made by other companies have had the impact that Starcraft has had, otherwise Blizzard would not have as much power as they do right now.
I'm a capitalist, I believe that competition benefits us, the players and fans, so Blizzard's choice to dominate the market really pisses me off. They make a good product, and should definitely get a piece of market since it's their game; but think about it this way, they're designing games now to take and keep control of that market...I don't need to go into the new limits that they've put on multiplayer in SC2. They see a working model in the beautiful esports testing ground that is Korea, and they now want control. This is the part where they're stealing a product that someone else has created, pro esports. They didn't invent it, their game just hit.
It's a shame that it's not a 3rd party relative to Blizzard and KeSPA that's fighting for an edge in this market, because the more that Blizzard fights for control, the more we move back into ONE company being in control...of everything from production to exhibition. That should scare you if you care about the rights of the players and fans, since Blizzard is in it for the money just as much as KeSPA.
The good news is that, because SDM and Tasteless bring a LOT to the table in terms of bringing SC to the English speakers (I first got into esports through GOM too), they're going to be around in the future. Having name recognition like they do is very marketable.
On September 15 2009 02:39 Mullet_Power wrote: I don't see how this move benefits Kespa at all. They may take their ball and go home, but if this annoys Blizzard enough, they can take the court and go home.
They control the only leagues in Korea. How does that not benefit them?
Mike Morhaime might decide he has enough profits with WoW that he's willing to lose some Starcraft licensing profits to teach somebody a lesson.
By doing what? What right does Blizzard have to do anything? If anything, the 9 years of having professional starcraft leagues have grandfathered them in.
They still own the copyright to Starcraft and I'm pretty sure Korea is a signatory to international copyright agreements. If KESPA is willing to use the nuclear option, I don't see why Blizzard won't respond with one.
Hm. On one hand I am pissed at Blizzard because they are way too facking rich enough already and it would have been sufficient to sponsor Kespa itself instead of just one purveyor of fine games. Its not like they need to dominate another market with all the World of Warcrackheads out there.
On the other hand I am pissed at Kespa because they dont give two shits about the foreign market to the extent that they could never even find a few dudes who can speak a different language. Im a total noob at the SC stuff and I can tell you now I didnt start watching Craft because of some dudes yelling "Daaak Temapaluuu!!!!!! Psiii Stoowwwwwmmmm!!!!" I got into it because I could actually understand wtf was going on with english commentary. (As much as I want to learn another language, Im not going to master Korean to watch a videogame replay.) How is the market supposed to expand when you pander to one country/language?
I guess we really cant blame them both for being douchebags...the entire purpose of a company in capitalism is to accrue profit. Nothing else. The only way this will be resolved is if Blizzard gets out of bed with GOM and gives some Blizzard dong to Kespa's sweet sweet poontang. Then, as husband and wife, give birth to GOM-reborn. Why not join together? As long as Kespa can share in the profit, why not get in on globalization of esports? It's not like Koreans are going to stop speaking Korean because there are now some English/German/Spanish commentators out there, so there will always be the market they have now in Korea, plus whatever profits they could share with Blizzard for being a major partner in what would be a much more effective global movement.
On September 15 2009 04:14 TallMax wrote: I'm a capitalist, I believe that competition benefits us, the players and fans, so Blizzard's choice to dominate the market really pisses me off.
hu? If you're a capitalist then you should understand that monopoly is the result of this process. So there is no reason you should be angry at it.
Competition is the lowest state of any evolving system and GOM TV being shutdown is the direct result of it. I really don't know where you see the benefit of this.
This is bullshit. GOM in the only league that keeps evolving into something more unique every season (English cast, unit counting station, live world wide streaming etc). They are the pioneers of Esports in korea at the moment. KeSPA is indeed on very thin ice if they really engineered this downfall.
KeSPA exists like any other company to serve the greater purpose of putting a good enough product out to the customers. We, the customers, are KeSPA's source of revenue. WIthout the fans they would be sleeping in cardboard boxes outside their office complexes. If they keep angering their customers like this they WILL pay for it in the end. Some day another organisation will challenge KeSPA (korean or world wide) and their customers will have small love for them when the time comes for chosing. The only chance KeSPA has of holding on to this market with these kinds of shenanigans is to lick government ass as long and as thouroughly as they possibly can.
In a way it's funny. They have a product that could be marketed world wide with great success. Despite of this they are set in tunnelvision on their little domestic market and make small efforts to actually improving the product. If they would try to work things out with blizzard instead of competing they could been hugely successful.
Blizzard could easily pull the plug on this entire thing. Only allow GOM to profit from their copyrighted material and watch KeSPA crash and burn. If the korean government then put an end to GOM aswell then fine. They just lost a huge industry alltogether (trust me they wont).
This is ridiculous. They can have they're arguments and disagreements but when it is affecting the users and the people that really give Blizzard AND Kespa in a negative fashion its downright fucking stupid. They are both in the wrong and they should sit down and figure it out rather than doing stupid immature shit like this.
On September 14 2009 19:45 motbob wrote: I am seeing a large disparity in assholery between the side arguing against Blizzard taking the monopoly power away from Kespa and the side arguing for it.
ya i'll give u that. it's annoying. in fact i'm done reading this thread it's so annoying.
On September 14 2009 18:33 Alethios wrote: Fuck KeSPA. I haven't heard anything positive about this idiots in so long. Seems every time I look they're disqualifying another gamer for coughing too loudly.
I don't care whether or not they're fighting to keep themselves relevant or not. Companies have the right to increase their profit margins by dubious practices, and we have the right not to buy their products. Seriously, fuck them.
Blizzard should release a SC patch specifically aimed to fuck these wankers.
as long as tasteless and SDM get another job doing english casting for individual or team play progamer league id be happy.
i liked gomTV because it introduced me to the pro scene after playing the game casually for so many years, and free english content for korea esports is what this is about for me.
as to blizzard and kepsa hwaiting...
well, this is where you are going to see the SC:BW vs SC:II fiascos develope, weither or not one or the other becomes or stays dominate will determine the victor.
GomTV and the english commentary caused me to get into starcraft, so I'm really mad that this league is done for. Without GOM I wouldn't have gotten on Iccup, spent hundreds of hours practicing and learning about pro-gaming, and wouldn't be here reading this certainly!
Who knows how many foreign fans and potential SC2 players are never going to discover the e-sports scene as a result of this.
Bad for the fans, bad for the industry, bad for kespa, and bad for starcraft!
Lot of first-time posters and very low-count posters posting in this thread. The general consensus from them also seems to be "fuck, gomtv is what brought me into e-sports in the first place!" It seems to me that gomtv did way more for the foreign community than just about anything else that's happened in the past... 9 years or so (as evidenced by the tens of thousands of views of season 2 videos). I'd love to hear from these types of fans exactly how they feel about watching games between foreigners with english commentary. The future of SC lies with the foreign community (or so I feel), and gomtv has been the best thing for the foreign community since SC's inception (and still could be if there is enough interest in foreigners playing each other )
On September 15 2009 04:44 StarBrift wrote: This is bullshit. GOM in the only league that keeps evolving into something more unique every season (English cast, unit counting station, live world wide streaming etc). They are the pioneers of Esports in korea at the moment. KeSPA is indeed on very thin ice if they really engineered this downfall.
KeSPA exists like any other company to serve the greater purpose of putting a good enough product out to the customers. We, the customers, are KeSPA's source of revenue. WIthout the fans they would be sleeping in cardboard boxes outside their office complexes. If they keep angering their customers like this they WILL pay for it in the end. Some day another organisation will challenge KeSPA (korean or world wide) and their customers will have small love for them when the time comes for chosing. The only chance KeSPA has of holding on to this market with these kinds of shenanigans is to lick government ass as long and as thouroughly as they possibly can.
In a way it's funny. They have a product that could be marketed world wide with great success. Despite of this they are set in tunnelvision on their little domestic market and make small efforts to actually improving the product. If they would try to work things out with blizzard instead of competing they could been hugely successful.
Blizzard could easily pull the plug on this entire thing. Only allow GOM to profit from their copyrighted material and watch KeSPA crash and burn. If the korean government then put an end to GOM aswell then fine. They just lost a huge industry alltogether (trust me they wont).
Well do OGN or MBCGame want to make separate streams for english viewers? I don't think its KeSPA to decide.
On September 15 2009 05:49 Dametri wrote: Lot of first-time posters and very low-count posters posting in this thread. The general consensus from them also seems to be "fuck, gomtv is what brought me into e-sports in the first place!"
I've yet to hear any valid reason for KeSPA's actions from any of its defenders. People say "They're just acting in self-interest, what's so wrong with that?", but their PURPOSE is supposed to be to promote the growth of E-sports.
It would be like an environmental company dumping toxic waste into the ocean because it makes it cheaper to produce their biodegradable 'eco-friendly' stuff to sell. Sure, it helps their company's bottom line, but it's entirely hypocritical and people have a right to be mad about it.
At any rate, it's KeSPA's loss in the end, because Starcraft 2 will come out, and KeSPA will either beg like a dog and lick Blizzard's boots for rights to broadcast it, or they'll go out of business while scrambling in futility to try to get Koreans to love some other shitty Korean game as much as they loved Starcraft.
And if Blizzard does decide to outsource the tournament-running in Korea instead of doing it themselves, and their choices are KeSPA and GOM, well...lol @ you KeSPA. Hope you enjoyed being relevant while it lasted.
If GOM started a foreigner tourney, I'd watch it. I don't know much about the foreign scene, but I learned about the Korean progamer scene from GOM. Here is why GOM rocked:
1) English - the language i speak. the language I understand 2) Structure - go to one site. watch games. no youtube hunting, livestream, ustream, etc. 3) Accessible Schedule - its on their site, with a bracket and everything. 4) Regularity - every sunday mornin (pretty much) games were broadcast. 5) Good Commentators - high quality announcers added to the excitement and understanding of the game.
You put something like that together for foreigners, and the foreigner scene will become much more popular as well. Its a winning formula.
On September 15 2009 06:28 Hinanawi wrote: I've yet to hear any valid reason for KeSPA's actions from any of its defenders. People say "They're just acting in self-interest, what's so wrong with that?", but their PURPOSE is supposed to be to promote the growth of E-sports.
What are you basing that on? Their purpose is to protect their company's interests and nothing else.
Chill, I'm pretty sure that fighting Blizzard is not in their "best interests". I mean, with how much money they COULD make from SC2 getting big, I can't imagine this shit would be worth it even if they do "win" and get to keep the SC1 scene the way it is.
Even if they have to pay royalties, surely that's better than fucking up the stability of the Korean esports scene to the point where it might not even be viable anymore...
On September 15 2009 06:28 Hinanawi wrote: I've yet to hear any valid reason for KeSPA's actions from any of its defenders. People say "They're just acting in self-interest, what's so wrong with that?", but their PURPOSE is supposed to be to promote the growth of E-sports.
What are you basing that on? Their purpose is to protect their company's interests and nothing else.
Nobody's saying they CAN'T work against the growth of e-sports, but people have a right to call them on it when they do, especially when they claim to be an organization that exists to prop up E-sports. I haven't seen anyone here say 'Let's sue KeSPA!', just a bunch of people saying 'KeSPA is fucking terrible', which is a fair opinion.
Besides, KeSPA is going to get reamed by Blizzard in the end anyway, like I said. They can enjoy their asshattery for one more year.
On September 15 2009 06:28 Hinanawi wrote: I've yet to hear any valid reason for KeSPA's actions from any of its defenders. People say "They're just acting in self-interest, what's so wrong with that?", but their PURPOSE is supposed to be to promote the growth of E-sports.
What are you basing that on? Their purpose is to protect their company's interests and nothing else.
Nobody's saying they CAN'T work against the growth of e-sports, but people have a right to call them on it when they do, especially when they claim to be an organization that exists to prop up E-sports. I haven't seen anyone here say 'Let's sue KeSPA!', just a bunch of people saying 'KeSPA is fucking terrible', which is a fair opinion.
Besides, KeSPA is going to get reamed by Blizzard in the end anyway, like I said. They can enjoy their asshattery for one more year.
This is circular logic, based on the assumption that they were formed to promote e-sports. It is my position that they weren't, so they have no responsibility to promote e-sports, and they have no resposibility to act positively with competition.
On September 15 2009 06:37 FrozenArbiter wrote: Chill, I'm pretty sure that fighting Blizzard is not in their "best interests". I mean, with how much money they COULD make from SC2 getting big, I can't imagine this shit would be worth it even if they do "win" and get to keep the SC1 scene the way it is.
Even if they have to pay royalties, surely that's better than fucking up the stability of the Korean esports scene to the point where it might not even be viable anymore...
We can speculate all we want. Being nice and letting Blizzard into the Korean market now isn't going to affect Blizzard's actions with SC2. Business isn't nice. If they're going to get muscled out of SC2, they need ground to stand on, which they've maintained.
Situation 1: KeSPA works with Blizzard now. Blizzard takes some of their market. SC2 comes out and Blizzard takes the remaining majority of their market.
Situation 2: KeSPA denies Blizzard. SC2 comes out and progamers have to make a choice of being on an SC1 team or a completely separate SC2 team.
Situation 2 is way better for KeSPA, which is what they've done. Why would you expect them to lie down when Blizzard has done nothing to get these leagues going, and is only now showing up trying to capitalize.
KESPA is a complete failure of a sporting governing body. The broadcasters have control? That can never be good for the growth of the sport. They will always squeeze out the competition and have no reason to improve conditions for the players. Where are the players going to go?
The only chance I can see of this being fixed is Blizzard somehow buying/forcing the broadcasters out of KESPA and creating an independant governing body for starcraft or Blizzard creating a new sporting body with GOM.
On September 15 2009 05:49 Dametri wrote: Lot of first-time posters and very low-count posters posting in this thread. The general consensus from them also seems to be "fuck, gomtv is what brought me into e-sports in the first place!" It seems to me that gomtv did way more for the foreign community than just about anything else that's happened in the past... 9 years or so (as evidenced by the tens of thousands of views of season 2 videos). I'd love to hear from these types of fans exactly how they feel about watching games between foreigners with english commentary. The future of SC lies with the foreign community (or so I feel), and gomtv has been the best thing for the foreign community since SC's inception (and still could be if there is enough interest in foreigners playing each other )
Yup I got into the pro-scene through Gom as well. Alot of hardcore long time posters seem to be saying there not that bothered because the Gom league wasn't that good/high quality anyway. Well that may be true but Gom has helped bring thousands of casual foreigners like myself into e-sports. I felt like it has set the scene for e-sports to explode globally with SC2. I imagined watching games not on the internet but on TV in the future. Now it seems like all the good work has been undone and this may never happen.
As regards to watching foreigners with english commentary, I believe Gom already had a foreigner tournament (the valor tournament). I see the valor tournament final has about 40 times fewer views than the intel classic. I would watch a foreigner tournament but it will be like watching 2nd division football. Somehow it just wont be the same knowing your not watching the best.
hmm maybe KeSPA should be less interested in being super profitable. if you give people what they want they'll generally flock to you and BAM $$$ rolls in. KeSPA needs to appeal to the foreign community else they'll be locked to a korean market which is very tiny, they need to reach out to china/states/euro.
I know several people who have been brought into the incredible sporting world of SC through GOM, largely because it offers the very rare opportunity for actually well informed English commentary. I don't know what gives anyone below B/B- rank the right to commentate on games played by the best (many commentators can sound very ignorant to well informed listeners), and SDM and especially Tasteless brought insightful and interesting, not to mention funny commentary to the game, making it accessible to n00bs. Gomtv was a brilliant vessel, even if it was below OSL/MSL/PL standards. The SC community will, I think, feel a definite blow in losing it, if these reports are true.
GOM is part of the reason I'm here too (technically Blizzcon '07's tournament is the real reason). I and a group of people I know got into SC because of watching the tournament every Saturday night.
Is anyone actually sad because we're losing a quality tournament?
I have a feeling the real reason there's so much rage is because what we're actually losing is quality English commentary of korean pro Starcraft. If MBC or OGN hired Tastless, SDM, Artosis or whoever to do some English commentary for the next season of pro-league or star-league games, I think we'd all settle down pretty quickly. Amiright?
On September 14 2009 17:47 p4NDemik wrote: Honestly I won't miss the tournament as a whole very much - there's just so many games being played when PL/MSL/OSL all get running at full speed, and GOM was never something I would make time to watch. I will however miss the chances to see unique/old-timer gamers in proper televised matches and not just prelims.
This is exactly how I feel about this.
I mean, GOM was good, but it always came after MSL/OSL/PL in prestige and excitement. Hopefully something good comes from this and we can get more English commentary on MSL/OSL/PL.
On September 14 2009 17:47 p4NDemik wrote: Honestly I won't miss the tournament as a whole very much - there's just so many games being played when PL/MSL/OSL all get running at full speed, and GOM was never something I would make time to watch. I will however miss the chances to see unique/old-timer gamers in proper televised matches and not just prelims.
This is exactly how I feel about this.
I mean, GOM was good, but it always came after MSL/OSL/PL in prestige and excitement. Hopefully something good comes from this and we can get more English commentary on MSL/OSL/PL.
I'd argue that there's already an overabundance of English commentary on non-GOM leagues. The demand GOM satisfied wasn't English commentary in general, but live, professional (in terms of mic quality, the casters' presence at GOM's studio), and conveniently available English commentary.
I am downplaying GOM's importance a bit, so I'd like to check myself by saying that, especially after reading all of the comments from new BW fans who were drawn by the tournament, I agree that it's been the most significant development in the foreign BW scene in the past few years. GOM bridged the gap between foreigner and Korean like no other tournament.
I honestly think the whole thing comes down to this. Kespa wants to be BKespa(The blizzard Korean E-sports association.) The people at Kespa just want to know they will have a job once SC2 comes out. By being a pain in the ass now. They are just hoping Blizzard will rather cut a deal with them rather then fight them. Blizzard likely will too. Kespa has already been doing this a long time, and have all there people in place. Kespa may never again be called "kespa", but i bet at some point blizzard will just uses there infrastructure and slaps there name over it.
On September 14 2009 17:47 p4NDemik wrote: Honestly I won't miss the tournament as a whole very much - there's just so many games being played when PL/MSL/OSL all get running at full speed, and GOM was never something I would make time to watch. I will however miss the chances to see unique/old-timer gamers in proper televised matches and not just prelims.
This is exactly how I feel about this.
I mean, GOM was good, but it always came after MSL/OSL/PL in prestige and excitement. Hopefully something good comes from this and we can get more English commentary on MSL/OSL/PL.
I'd argue that there's already an overabundance of English commentary on non-GOM leagues. The demand GOM satisfied wasn't English commentary in general, but live, professional (in terms of mic quality, the casters' presence at GOM's studio), and conveniently available English commentary.
I am downplaying GOM's importance a bit, so I'd like to check myself by saying that, especially after reading all of the comments from new BW fans who were drawn by the tournament, I agree that it's been the most significant development in the foreign BW scene in the past few years. GOM bridged the gap between foreigner and Korean like no other tournament.
Exactly. GOM brings in people who otherwise would never watch or play starcraft. They were willing to drop a lot of money (building a studio, hiring people who actually sound professional) to target a market that Korea has otherwise been totally unable or unwilling to tap. I don't think you can overstate just how important it was that they made actual headway into hitting the foreign market, and its unreal how they were treated by the other businesses.
That's a shame - GOM was a step in the right direction for giving foreign fans more access to the Korean proscene. I hope it manages to continue some form of league in the future. I can't get onto the 'fuck Kespa' band wagon myself because even though I don't agree with some of their recent policies (Especially FA and ceremonies.) they've given me press passes continually and been very supportive of my work here.
On September 15 2009 08:59 InToTheWannaB wrote: I honestly think the whole thing comes down to this. Kespa wants to be BKespa(The blizzard Korean E-sports association.) The people at Kespa just want to know they will have a job once SC2 comes out. By being a pain in the ass now. They are just hoping Blizzard will rather cut a deal with them rather then fight them. Blizzard likely will too. Kespa has already been doing this a long time, and have all there people in place. Kespa may never again be called "kespa", but i bet at some point blizzard will just uses there infrastructure and slaps there name over it.
Given how absolutely incompetent Kespa has been as a governing body over the last year in their own leagues (DQs, the hilarious attempt at "free agency") this seems way less likely than this just being another case of overall ineptitude.
We will have to wait for more official news about this, a twitter post is not exactly confirmation.
We also do not know how the players feel about this. I think the players would be mixed about this. Some might be way too busy to practice for all of the leagues, while other lesser known players might want as many opportunities as possible to show what they have. Or players may want the opportunity to win as much prize money as possible. Of course we as foreign fans want GOM, but maybe the majority of the players do not.
If the majority of the players do in fact want this tournament, I think the only way to stop the kespa bullshit is a protest. If all teams/players agreed to just sit in the booths and not play when the games started during proleague regular season then that would get the point across pretty well. I'm not sure if they would ever do something like that or if everyone would agree with it though.
I don't know about Korean, but judging from the fans here, if KeSPA and Blizzard would ever set up separate leagues in SC2, KeSPA's would lose by a landslide in terms of support.
I think what JWD said about the teams backing down as apposed to kespa interfering seems more realistic. with so many leagues, and proleague becoming so important that every match maters, there is just no room for another league without it hindering the players involved. you could tell by the end of GOM season 3 that some players were stressed to the max, and GOM was last on the list of important things.
Now, if GOM could become a league for B teamers (who have much more time on there hands and could do with the experience of some TV matches) that would be fucking great!
On September 15 2009 06:28 Hinanawi wrote: I've yet to hear any valid reason for KeSPA's actions from any of its defenders. People say "They're just acting in self-interest, what's so wrong with that?", but their PURPOSE is supposed to be to promote the growth of E-sports.
What are you basing that on? Their purpose is to protect their company's interests and nothing else.
Nobody's saying they CAN'T work against the growth of e-sports, but people have a right to call them on it when they do, especially when they claim to be an organization that exists to prop up E-sports. I haven't seen anyone here say 'Let's sue KeSPA!', just a bunch of people saying 'KeSPA is fucking terrible', which is a fair opinion.
Besides, KeSPA is going to get reamed by Blizzard in the end anyway, like I said. They can enjoy their asshattery for one more year.
This is circular logic, based on the assumption that they were formed to promote e-sports. It is my position that they weren't, so they have no responsibility to promote e-sports, and they have no resposibility to act positively with competition.
On September 15 2009 06:37 FrozenArbiter wrote: Chill, I'm pretty sure that fighting Blizzard is not in their "best interests". I mean, with how much money they COULD make from SC2 getting big, I can't imagine this shit would be worth it even if they do "win" and get to keep the SC1 scene the way it is.
Even if they have to pay royalties, surely that's better than fucking up the stability of the Korean esports scene to the point where it might not even be viable anymore...
We can speculate all we want. Being nice and letting Blizzard into the Korean market now isn't going to affect Blizzard's actions with SC2. Business isn't nice. If they're going to get muscled out of SC2, they need ground to stand on, which they've maintained.
Situation 1: KeSPA works with Blizzard now. Blizzard takes some of their market. SC2 comes out and Blizzard takes the remaining majority of their market.
Situation 2: KeSPA denies Blizzard. SC2 comes out and progamers have to make a choice of being on an SC1 team or a completely separate SC2 team.
Situation 2 is way better for KeSPA, which is what they've done. Why would you expect them to lie down when Blizzard has done nothing to get these leagues going, and is only now showing up trying to capitalize.
As far as I've understood it, Blizzard has no interest in actually taking over ALL of it - they just want a cut. I mean, if that was the case, then *of course* they'd have to fight, but as best I understand this is nowhere near what is happening.
Of course, it's all speculation as you said...
If they didn't decide to go to war with Blizzard, they would still have OSL and MSL, and those leagues would STILL be the top dogs. GOM is small in Korea - why would things be so different for SC2?
Now they are faced with a situation where instead of a setback they could be faced with total collapse...
On September 15 2009 09:29 NeverGG wrote: That's a shame - GOM was a step in the right direction for giving foreign fans more access to the Korean proscene. I hope it manages to continue some form of league in the future. I can't get onto the 'fuck Kespa' band wagon myself because even though I don't agree with some of their recent policies (Especially FA and ceremonies.) they've given me press passes continually and been very supportive of my work here.
It's not exactly heroic of KeSPA to support volunteer work that is obviously in its self-interest.
On September 15 2009 09:29 NeverGG wrote: That's a shame - GOM was a step in the right direction for giving foreign fans more access to the Korean proscene. I hope it manages to continue some form of league in the future. I can't get onto the 'fuck Kespa' band wagon myself because even though I don't agree with some of their recent policies (Especially FA and ceremonies.) they've given me press passes continually and been very supportive of my work here.
It's not exactly heroic of KeSPA to support volunteer work that is obviously in its self-interest.
How is it in their self-interest? I don't work for them or any of their sites. To me personally, it's been a massive help. Also it's not always volunteer work. I'm currently interning with Fomos and working for TL.net. Without Kespa's help I would not have been able to cover any of the finals for the last two years.
On September 15 2009 09:29 NeverGG wrote: That's a shame - GOM was a step in the right direction for giving foreign fans more access to the Korean proscene. I hope it manages to continue some form of league in the future. I can't get onto the 'fuck Kespa' band wagon myself because even though I don't agree with some of their recent policies (Especially FA and ceremonies.) they've given me press passes continually and been very supportive of my work here.
It's not exactly heroic of KeSPA to support volunteer work that is obviously in its self-interest.
How is it in their self-interest? I don't work for them or any of their sites. To me personally, it's been a massive help. Also it's not always volunteer work. I'm currently interning with Fomos and working for TL.net. Without Kespa's help I would not have been able to cover any of the finals for the last two years.
KeSPA gave you a pass to cover their event. How is that anything to be thankful for?
It's like a company allowing a news reporter to interview them.
On September 15 2009 09:29 NeverGG wrote: That's a shame - GOM was a step in the right direction for giving foreign fans more access to the Korean proscene. I hope it manages to continue some form of league in the future. I can't get onto the 'fuck Kespa' band wagon myself because even though I don't agree with some of their recent policies (Especially FA and ceremonies.) they've given me press passes continually and been very supportive of my work here.
It's not exactly heroic of KeSPA to support volunteer work that is obviously in its self-interest.
How is it in their self-interest? I don't work for them or any of their sites. To me personally, it's been a massive help. Also it's not always volunteer work. I'm currently interning with Fomos and working for TL.net. Without Kespa's help I would not have been able to cover any of the finals for the last two years.
KeSPA gave you a pass to cover their event. How is that anything to be thankful for?
It's like a company allowing a news reporter to interview them.
I *knew* you'd have to chime in about this. I'm thankful for it and I'd like to hope that some people here on TL.net are too.
If you're not thankful for the time, money and effort I've put into getting those press passes and reporting on my free time for TL then maybe it's easier for me not to bother in the future. Some of the moderation staff here are very helpful, but you seem to feel the need to comment about anything I say that doesn't fit your views and then blame me for your lack of support towards someone who is volunteering to help TL in the best way she can.
Would you rather they didn't help me and then we had no photo coverage? Not everything about Kespa is bad - they just make some terrible decisions regarding the actual leagues.
On September 15 2009 09:29 NeverGG wrote: That's a shame - GOM was a step in the right direction for giving foreign fans more access to the Korean proscene. I hope it manages to continue some form of league in the future. I can't get onto the 'fuck Kespa' band wagon myself because even though I don't agree with some of their recent policies (Especially FA and ceremonies.) they've given me press passes continually and been very supportive of my work here.
It's not exactly heroic of KeSPA to support volunteer work that is obviously in its self-interest.
How is it in their self-interest? I don't work for them or any of their sites. To me personally, it's been a massive help. Also it's not always volunteer work. I'm currently interning with Fomos and working for TL.net. Without Kespa's help I would not have been able to cover any of the finals for the last two years.
KeSPA gave you a pass to cover their event. How is that anything to be thankful for?
It's like a company allowing a news reporter to interview them.
I *knew* you'd have to chime in about this. I'm thankful for it and I'd like to hope that some people here on TL.net are too.
If you're not thankful for the time, money and effort I've put into getting those press passes and reporting on my free time for TL then maybe it's easier for me not to bother in the future. Some of the moderation staff here are very helpful, but you seem to feel the need to comment about anything I say that doesn't fit your views.
Would you rather they didn't help me and then we had no photo coverage? Not everything about Kespa is bad - they just make some terrible decisions regarding the actual leagues.
I like your pictures. I comment positively often on them. I commented once negatively and you've never let it go.
That being said, I don't see how you feel like you owe anything to kespa. You're doing all the legwork. You should feel like kespa owes you something, not the other way around.
Look, don't take his words to mean something he didn't mean for them to. I think you know he (and everyone else) are very glad to have someone like you on our site; there's really not a lot of people able to fill your role, as I'm sure you know.
It is in KeSPA's best interest to help you cover their events as best they can tho.
It's totally understandable why you would personally feel grateful for it, and I think everyone appreciates the results of it all, but it is not an altruistic act (by KeSPA).
You guys still understand that the odds are rather high that SDM's twitter account simply has been stolen and someone is posting crap just so piss people off...?
On September 15 2009 11:16 Integra wrote: You guys still understand that the odds are rather high that SDM's twitter account simply has been stolen and someone is posting crap just so piss people off...?
I spoke with daniel on msn a few hours ago lol. it's 100% real.
On September 15 2009 11:16 Integra wrote: You guys still understand that the odds are rather high that SDM's twitter account simply has been stolen and someone is posting crap just so piss people off...?
I really doubt this is the case because I don't find this news that surprising... EDIT: ^And now we know...^
On September 15 2009 11:16 Integra wrote: You guys still understand that the odds are rather high that SDM's twitter account simply has been stolen and someone is posting crap just so piss people off...?
I spoke with daniel on msn a few hours ago lol. it's 100% real.
On September 15 2009 11:12 FrozenArbiter wrote: Look, don't take his words to mean something he didn't mean for them to. I think you know he (and everyone else) are very glad to have someone like you on our site; there's really not a lot of people able to fill your role, as I'm sure you know.
It is in KeSPA's best interest to help you cover their events as best they can tho.
It's totally understandable why you would personally feel grateful for it, and I think everyone appreciates the results of it all, but it is not an altruistic act (by KeSPA).
Yep, FA said exactly what I was going to. Of course it's in KeSPA's interest to have more photos and more coverage of their tournaments and events circulating on the internet.
On September 15 2009 12:40 moebius_string wrote: There are likely many people just like NeverGG in Korea covering SC. Kespa need not help her, but obvioulsy likes here work and helps her out.
Actually there's only 3 active foreign journalists in Korea for SC - myself, Artosis and PR. Dan is also more of a caster so it's only me and Rick right now.
For the StarCraft e-Sports scene, this is preety much a step backwards. GOM was the first company to recognise the untapped potential of the audience outside Korea. Thanks to this....charade, we have lost our only source of professional english StarCraft commentary. When one thinks that Intel-Classic had the potential of becoming the third major individual league, this kind of outcome becomes all the more worse.
But to be honest, the biggest victims of this debacle are Tasteless and SuperDanielMan. SuperDanielMan in particular will be hit hard by this. Since there will be no more progaming leagues, GOM no longer has use for english StarCraft commentators. However, since he worked for GOM, chances are that KeSPA will not allow him to return as coach or do anything else as far as the StarCraft e-Sports scene is concerned.
I wonder if Blizzard will respond to this in some way. Considering their fairly recent agreement with GOM, this undermining of GOM by KeSPA comes as a grave insult. Considering how the two have been trading blows so far, I would not be suprised if Blizzard decided to make a hard blow of their own.
And this news makes me so very sad. I don't know if KeSPA is to be blamed for all of it, but they continue to seem like they don't care at all for eSports and the Starcraft community and instead only worry about their purses.
Meh, GomTV was nice, no discounting the sheer convenience of English commentary, but as someone who loved watching the games for the high level of play and sheer emotion and intensity, the GomTV games were never of the level of any of the other starleagues, or proleague. The level of play was not close, and atleast for myself, there wasn't the epic scope or feel I got from the others. I mean, its sad, but personally, I wont really feel the loss.
That, and I love Tasteless, easily my favorite caster, but seriously, I hated how he would always repeat the same things, like "The GomTV classic, seroiusly, these players take it so seriously, this tourny means SO MUCH to these guys, its so presitigious" I mean, I dont need to hear that over and over again, especially when its not true.
When you have 2 rival Game TV directors on the board for Kepsa, it means nothing but trouble. KESPA needs to die off already. Lately, GOM been having better finals than MSL and OSL.
On September 15 2009 16:57 Wedge wrote: Meh, GomTV was nice, no discounting the sheer convenience of English commentary, but as someone who loved watching the games for the high level of play and sheer emotion and intensity, the GomTV games were never of the level of any of the other starleagues, or proleague. The level of play was not close, and atleast for myself, there wasn't the epic scope or feel I got from the others. I mean, its sad, but personally, I wont really feel the loss.
Bisu vs Flash? The stadium was packed. Jaedong vs Flash final was very hyped. Bisu vs Jaedong, S1 vs S2 winner.
good. no one gave a shit about GOM tournament anyway (I don't remember a single audience shot in season 3, it must have been empty most of the time), and all daniel and tasteless were doing was promoting starcraft 2. sold outs.
On September 15 2009 11:16 Integra wrote: You guys still understand that the odds are rather high that SDM's twitter account simply has been stolen and someone is posting crap just so piss people off...?
I spoke with daniel on msn a few hours ago lol. it's 100% real.
okay then.
F you Kespa!
you never know, Kennegit might be trolling, are you sure your gonna change your theory?
On September 14 2009 17:47 p4NDemik wrote: Honestly I won't miss the tournament as a whole very much - there's just so many games being played when PL/MSL/OSL all get running at full speed, and GOM was never something I would make time to watch.
Same here. I never watched GOM besides first seasons
And actually I got tired very fast of the commentating
On September 15 2009 09:29 NeverGG wrote: That's a shame - GOM was a step in the right direction for giving foreign fans more access to the Korean proscene. I hope it manages to continue some form of league in the future. I can't get onto the 'fuck Kespa' band wagon myself because even though I don't agree with some of their recent policies (Especially FA and ceremonies.) they've given me press passes continually and been very supportive of my work here.
It's not exactly heroic of KeSPA to support volunteer work that is obviously in its self-interest.
Yeah and Kespa is just this big super-evil corporation that devours everything in it's path. Kespa has done alot of good for korean e-sports as well, something you might want to remember.
I'm with Pandemik on this one. It's a bummer to see Tasteless and SDM unable to cast but I could never get myself to watch the games, especially once they started to make it harder and harder for the average person to watch games, with loads chatter at the beginning and end of each video. There were some great games played, there just wasn't the same amount of hype and history in the GOMTV games.
I know how blizzard can fix this. Easy. Agree to our terms or we will ban SCII and the Selling of ALL blizzard products to South Korea. An ban every ip that installs SCII due to the online requirement to install it. But this will never happen because of the money issue So Kespa and Blizzard can't agree? How the fuck could SCII be a major hit i Korea? I really hope blizzard plugs b.net in a grand final. And show that No-one fucks with our favorite company of all time. But I don't think blizzard cares that they loose Gomtv money due to their money milking of WoW.
On September 15 2009 06:28 Hinanawi wrote: I've yet to hear any valid reason for KeSPA's actions from any of its defenders. People say "They're just acting in self-interest, what's so wrong with that?", but their PURPOSE is supposed to be to promote the growth of E-sports.
What are you basing that on? Their purpose is to protect their company's interests and nothing else.
Nobody's saying they CAN'T work against the growth of e-sports, but people have a right to call them on it when they do, especially when they claim to be an organization that exists to prop up E-sports. I haven't seen anyone here say 'Let's sue KeSPA!', just a bunch of people saying 'KeSPA is fucking terrible', which is a fair opinion.
Besides, KeSPA is going to get reamed by Blizzard in the end anyway, like I said. They can enjoy their asshattery for one more year.
This is circular logic, based on the assumption that they were formed to promote e-sports. It is my position that they weren't, so they have no responsibility to promote e-sports, and they have no resposibility to act positively with competition.
On September 15 2009 06:37 FrozenArbiter wrote: Chill, I'm pretty sure that fighting Blizzard is not in their "best interests". I mean, with how much money they COULD make from SC2 getting big, I can't imagine this shit would be worth it even if they do "win" and get to keep the SC1 scene the way it is.
Even if they have to pay royalties, surely that's better than fucking up the stability of the Korean esports scene to the point where it might not even be viable anymore...
We can speculate all we want. Being nice and letting Blizzard into the Korean market now isn't going to affect Blizzard's actions with SC2. Business isn't nice. If they're going to get muscled out of SC2, they need ground to stand on, which they've maintained.
Situation 1: KeSPA works with Blizzard now. Blizzard takes some of their market. SC2 comes out and Blizzard takes the remaining majority of their market.
Situation 2: KeSPA denies Blizzard. SC2 comes out and progamers have to make a choice of being on an SC1 team or a completely separate SC2 team.
Situation 2 is way better for KeSPA, which is what they've done. Why would you expect them to lie down when Blizzard has done nothing to get these leagues going, and is only now showing up trying to capitalize.
Because ultimately KeSPA don't have the power in this argument. They're using their nuclear option by taking away the players but Blizzard can up the licensing fee beyond their range if they want. As someone already put it, KeSPA said "we don't like it so we're gonna take our ball and go home when Blizzard can just go fine, we'll take your court home with us". Being able to establish a virtual monopoly on the players is impressive but having a real monopoly on the game itself is better. We'll see how long the players boycott GOM if Blizzard refuses to renew the license for OGN and MBC to broadcast Starcraft.
On September 15 2009 21:20 Kwark wrote: Because ultimately KeSPA don't have the power in this argument. They're using their nuclear option by taking away the players but Blizzard can up the licensing fee beyond their range if they want.
It's funny how people think OGN / MBC / Kespa actually pay Blizzard for broadcasting rights. I don't have any definite confirmation on whether they do or not, but I don't think they pay a dime. They just do it.
Kespa is playing with fire. If they piss Blizzard off too much they just take away gaming rights and then they lose the SC jewel in their crown (as Kwark says).
Kespa has way more to lose than Blizzard here and needs to exercise a bit more thought imo.
I believe it when I see it. You guys should never underestimate the _huge_ costs and risks involved in actually dragging Kespa (a state backed organization) to the courts. It's not like Blizzard can just force them to stop because they don't like it.
I don't think there's much of a fee, if there is a fee at all, because SC isn't that profitable. Blizzard can't take an amount from them that'd be worth the risk of SC in Korea collapsing since the SC phenomenon in Korea is worth quite a lot to Blizzard.
If KeSPA has competition in SC2, and that competition might include Blizzard themselves as they prepare to host their own leagues, then KeSPA could definitely be muscled out. But right now, there isn't really any muscling out going on because they're not in competition right now. The terms of their ongoing relationship could be adjusted but it's too fragile.
On September 15 2009 21:49 zatic wrote: I believe it when I see it. You guys should never underestimate the _huge_ costs and risks involved in actually dragging Kespa (a state backed organization) to the courts. It's not like Blizzard can just force them to stop because they don't like it.
I don't think a korean court would ever allow Blizzard to force a stop on Tv rights. And afaik Blizzard can't lead a process from the united states.
I can't believe it! GOM was my favourite tournament of them all.. It's the reason I started playing starcraft and started reading this forum!
The professional English casting made it a special league. Now there won't be any league I can follow, except for some random games commentated by the amateur casters (which do a GREAT job, by the way). The games are fun to watch, but what I'm missing is the spirit of the competition as a whole. Who will advance, who will face Flash, etc.
@Everyone saying "I don't like GOM" or "I only watched X player" or "x season" because "blah":
The GOM Starcraft tournaments are... stay with me here... Starcraft tournaments. Even if 'no team takes them seriously', we still get some very good games out of them.
For those of you that dislike the commentary:
1. Turn the sound down.
2. New players (and I don't mean players that finally got C+ either...) start out by watching these tournaments. That's how a lot of people get into progaming these days. You have to start somewhere, and English commentary is a really good place to start. The Starcraft community can only benefit from GOM's efforts.
One more tweet from Daniel Lee: "I just want to point out that I said 'as of now' meaning it's pending, nothing was stated on the record."
In the context he used it, "as of now" could not have been interpreted to mean "pending", so I can't see this as anything but a weak attempt to back down from his previous statements.
On September 15 2009 21:20 Kwark wrote: Because ultimately KeSPA don't have the power in this argument. They're using their nuclear option by taking away the players but Blizzard can up the licensing fee beyond their range if they want.
It's funny how people think OGN / MBC / Kespa actually pay Blizzard for broadcasting rights. I don't have any definite confirmation on whether they do or not, but I don't think they pay a dime. They just do it.
Starcraft belongs to Blizzard, I don't know if they do get licensing fees but they have the right to charge them. KeSPA can't legally profit from the sale of someone elses intellectual property without their consent.
On September 15 2009 23:26 JWD wrote: One more tweet from Daniel Lee: "I just want to point out that I said 'as of now' meaning it's pending, nothing was stated on the record."
In the context he used it, "as of now" could not have been interpreted to mean "pending", so I can't see this as anything but a weak attempt to back down from his previous statements.
On September 15 2009 22:01 Liquid`NonY wrote: If KeSPA has competition in SC2, and that competition might include Blizzard themselves as they prepare to host their own leagues, then KeSPA could definitely be muscled out. But right now, there isn't really any muscling out going on because they're not in competition right now. The terms of their ongoing relationship could be adjusted but it's too fragile.
I was under the impression that it was confirmed KeSPA would have competition for SC2. I'm reasonably sure Daniel said explicitly in a cast over the spring/summer (trying to remember where, Valor maybe?) that Blizzard was planning on organizing everything worldwide themselves and leaving Korean governing bodies in the dust. We also know Blizzard has a 10 man "esports team" or whatever which might support that (or maybe its really just 12 Karunes to post on rumor forums LOL).
On September 15 2009 21:20 Kwark wrote: Because ultimately KeSPA don't have the power in this argument. They're using their nuclear option by taking away the players but Blizzard can up the licensing fee beyond their range if they want.
It's funny how people think OGN / MBC / Kespa actually pay Blizzard for broadcasting rights. I don't have any definite confirmation on whether they do or not, but I don't think they pay a dime. They just do it.
Starcraft belongs to Blizzard, I don't know if they do get licensing fees but they have the right to charge them. KeSPA can't legally profit from the sale of someone elses intellectual property without their consent.
Yepp but they sure as hell can do it illegally. And Blizzard can't do shit about it because suing them would be WAY more expensive than not getting a broadcasting fee. Which is what I am saying.
Apart from that, I don't think any country has had laws or a single ruling about how far the IP rights of computer game makers go, so saying "they have the (legal) right to charge them" is just speculation. This is not clear at all. From my (rather limited) understanding of German copyright law for example it might very well backfire to try to establish IP over broadcasting by a game producing company. In any case it would be a drawn out and expensive trial with the most likely result of no Starcraft broadcasted at all, which obviously is not in Blizzard's interest.
On September 15 2009 22:01 Liquid`NonY wrote: If KeSPA has competition in SC2, and that competition might include Blizzard themselves as they prepare to host their own leagues, then KeSPA could definitely be muscled out. But right now, there isn't really any muscling out going on because they're not in competition right now. The terms of their ongoing relationship could be adjusted but it's too fragile.
I was under the impression that it was confirmed KeSPA would have competition for SC2. I'm reasonably sure Daniel said explicitly in a cast over the spring/summer (trying to remember where, Valor maybe?) that Blizzard was planning on organizing everything worldwide themselves and leaving Korean governing bodies in the dust. We also know Blizzard has a 10 man "esports team" or whatever which might support that (or maybe its really just 12 Karunes to post on rumor forums LOL).
Yeah, I think it's more accurate to say that Blizzard will be competition and not that they might be competition. But we'll have to wait and see.
I don't think it really matters though because there will be more incentive for Korean players to leave Korea for SC2 than there is for BW. When faced with the decision of playing in all KeSPA events or all non-KeSPA events, a Korean SC2 player would not be completely insane to opt for the non-KeSPA stuff as a Korean BW player currently would be.
I will laugh when SC2 comes out and blizzard fucks kespa right left and center. They can stick to their crappy starcraft original and broadcast even crappier events lol... ooowait wtf I love starcraft =_= ahh yeah I hate kespa!
On September 16 2009 02:47 Boundz(DarKo) wrote: I will laugh when SC2 comes out and blizzard fucks kespa right left and center. They can stick to their crappy starcraft original and broadcast even crappier events lol... ooowait wtf I love starcraft =_= ahh yeah I hate kespa!
yeah it'd be pretty cool to see GOM prosper when SC2 rolls around
First SDM says that no pro gamers will participate then he says it's not really for certain...but what the hell, on the flipside consistent people that makes sense aren't really that entertaining.
Oh sweet jesus no!!! Gom was the best thing to happen to the progamer scene. Hopefully blizzards new policies will keep kespa completely out of the loop with sc2 or at least play fairly.
On September 16 2009 04:05 Integra wrote: First SDM says that no pro gamers will participate then he says it's not really for certain...but what the hell, on the flipside consistent people that makes sense aren't really that entertaining.
How do you feel it doesnt make sense? Hes saying its dead as far as progamers are concerned. Its just not official yet.
SDM if anyone should have inside information about it. What really wouldnt make sense, is if the proteams all said "We wont participate in the next season", then do a 360 and say "Ok, nevermind what we said earlier. Lets do this."
Some people are defending KeSPA...why?! This is the KeSPA that disqualifies you if you type "pp" instead of "ppp" EVEN AFTER your monitor breaks. What's next, an automatic forfeit if your keyboard breaks? This shit is ridiculous, and I hope the pro players are just as pissed off. Ultimately KeSPA is the one to blame here...
too bad julyzerg can't goto blizzcon I know how much that boy wanted to go, he was next in line to go, after flash and iris. STX stood by KESPA, hate it when players gets left out because of politics. Blizzard holding hands with GOMTV isn't affecting KESPA at all.
SDM does seem pretty serious about it though. He would know better than anyone whats going on in the company and from what I've been hearing it isnt looking good.
Hopefully they can hold out until SC2 and do something with that. As countless others have said, SC2 is going to be a lot different now that its on a global stage again.
I hope SC2 overshadows BW in all aspects but BW is 'still' very exciting to watch especially when new maps roll out from time to time.
I think that its partly the pro-players fault for not speaking out; they never say anything but bland scripted stuff all the time, but then there jobs are on the line due to the relationship between the pro teams & kespa. I mean they never got to say anything about how bad the sham FA system was and just had to live with it so they really are to protective over there jobs.
I think it would take someone like Boxer to speak up on the record for kespa to ever take head as he has the standing to say what he wants. Probably any of the top big names too; Jaedong, Bisu, Flash etc etc etc.
On September 16 2009 08:06 Adeeler wrote: I hope SC2 overshadows BW in all aspects but BW is 'still' very exciting to watch especially when new maps roll out from time to time.
I think that its partly the pro-players fault for not speaking out; they never say anything but bland scripted stuff all the time, but then there jobs are on the line due to the relationship between the pro teams & kespa. I mean they never got to say anything about how bad the sham FA system was and just had to live with it so they really are to protective over there jobs.
I think it would take someone like Boxer to speak up on the record for kespa to ever take head as he has the standing to say what he wants. Probably any of the top big names too; Jaedong, Bisu, Flash etc etc etc.
Why would the pro players say anything about it. Keeping the GOM tourney alive isn't their priority. If you watched GOM last season, you'll see that most players didn't even care about it. The quality of games were terrible.
Starcraft tv ratings have fallen since 2006, mostly because of the over saturation of starcraft tv. That's why even after killing GOM, Kespa decided to reduce the amount of proleague days from 5 to 4. They hope that starcraft ratings will increase by reducing the amount of bw content there is right now. Maybe then prominent companies will begin to sponsor the MSL again.
If Kespa decides that reducing the amount of games is good for esports, it'll probably be good for progamers too. In that case, players have no reason to want to play in the GOM tourney.
On September 16 2009 08:06 Adeeler wrote: I hope SC2 overshadows BW in all aspects but BW is 'still' very exciting to watch especially when new maps roll out from time to time.
I think that its partly the pro-players fault for not speaking out; they never say anything but bland scripted stuff all the time, but then there jobs are on the line due to the relationship between the pro teams & kespa. I mean they never got to say anything about how bad the sham FA system was and just had to live with it so they really are to protective over there jobs.
I think it would take someone like Boxer to speak up on the record for kespa to ever take head as he has the standing to say what he wants. Probably any of the top big names too; Jaedong, Bisu, Flash etc etc etc.
Why would the pro players say anything about it. Keeping the GOM tourney alive isn't their priority. If you watched GOM last season, you'll see that most players didn't even care about it. The quality of games were terrible.
Starcraft tv ratings have fallen since 2006, mostly because of the over saturation of starcraft tv. That's why even after killing GOM, Kespa decided to reduce the amount of proleague days from 5 to 4. They hope that starcraft ratings will increase by reducing the amount of bw content there is right now. Maybe then prominent companies will begin to sponsor the MSL again.
If Kespa decides that reducing the amount of games is good for esports, it'll probably be good for progamers too. In that case, players have no reason to want to play in the GOM tourney.
The largest prize pool, and you think the players didn't care about it? That's ridiculous. If you thought all the games were of low quality, you clearly weren't watching what I was.
Sure, reducing the amount of SC/BW games might be a good idea, but why drop the one that has a GROWING audience, mainly thanks to the English casting? That's biting the hand that feeds you.
And people think SC2 is going to help this. Probably not, for several reasons. First off, there won't be pro gamers who are at the level of SC/BW players for a long time--it takes time to get really good at a new game, even if you've played its predecessor. But before that can even happen, SC2 will need to go through many balance changes, because there's no way it can be as well balanced as a game that has matured over 10+ years. And then it has to be accepted by the gamers, and the community, as a game worthy of the legacy of SC/BW, so pros take the time, networks get the sponsorship, and people watch.
LOL at some people jumping at kespa's defense, saying they have done good things for esports and starcraft. Fuck no they have not, superdanielman very clearly explained in one of his blogs that everyone who was involved in helping develop starcraft, setting up the drafts, pro licenses, starleagues, proleagues, etc etc are no longer working at kespa, and everybody who is in kespa NOW is a huge douchebag. Alright I added that last part but the point still stands, kespa is a cancer on starcraft.
On September 16 2009 15:51 psion0011 wrote: LOL at some people jumping at kespa's defense, saying they have done good things for esports and starcraft. Fuck no they have not, superdanielman very clearly explained in one of his blogs that everyone who was involved in helping develop starcraft, setting up the drafts, pro licenses, starleagues, proleagues, etc etc are no longer working at kespa, and everybody who is in kespa NOW is a huge douchebag. Alright I added that last part but the point still stands, kespa is a cancer on starcraft.
I'm not going to comment on their policies etc, but it's a bit rich to call these people douche bags when you've never met any of them. I *have* and they're actually very nice people. To the point of escorting me home safely once when we all stayed out very late after WL finals and also one of the referees was told by his boss to make sure I was safe on the subway home after one of the other finals.
On September 16 2009 15:51 psion0011 wrote: LOL at some people jumping at kespa's defense, saying they have done good things for esports and starcraft. Fuck no they have not, superdanielman very clearly explained in one of his blogs that everyone who was involved in helping develop starcraft, setting up the drafts, pro licenses, starleagues, proleagues, etc etc are no longer working at kespa, and everybody who is in kespa NOW is a huge douchebag. Alright I added that last part but the point still stands, kespa is a cancer on starcraft.
I'm not going to comment on their policies etc, but it's a bit rich to call these people douche bags when you've never met any of them. I *have* and they're actually very nice people. To the point of escorting me home safely once when we all stayed out very late after WL finals and also one of the referees was told by his boss to make sure I was safe on the subway home after one of the other finals.
If you goto North Korea and say you are THE GREAT LEADER'S biggest fan, you will also get treathed very well, but that doesnt make the country any better because they are still fucking insane.
But regarding the topic at hand... Blizzard can pull the whole plug on South Korea and just laugh while the money steamrolls from World of Wankers. Blizzard/activision must be the richest gaming company so if they lose south korea they wont go QQ, they would go hmm we are gonna lose "10 mil dollers"..... FUCK THAT we just make another wow expansion, problem solved
On September 16 2009 15:51 psion0011 wrote: LOL at some people jumping at kespa's defense, saying they have done good things for esports and starcraft. Fuck no they have not, superdanielman very clearly explained in one of his blogs that everyone who was involved in helping develop starcraft, setting up the drafts, pro licenses, starleagues, proleagues, etc etc are no longer working at kespa, and everybody who is in kespa NOW is a huge douchebag. Alright I added that last part but the point still stands, kespa is a cancer on starcraft.
I'm not going to comment on their policies etc, but it's a bit rich to call these people douche bags when you've never met any of them. I *have* and they're actually very nice people. To the point of escorting me home safely once when we all stayed out very late after WL finals and also one of the referees was told by his boss to make sure I was safe on the subway home after one of the other finals.
I'm pretty sure there are a lot of very nice people working in KeSPA, as you say. It's just unfortunate that the ones making the decisions seem to be... well, idiots =/
KESPA should be put down like a rabid dog - .- Who gave them the right to try and monopolize Starcraft as a E-Sport..
And to GOMTV: I can speak only for myself, but I loved your tournaments, and I wish you keep them going, even if it is going to be foreigners. Don't let them bring you down!
On September 16 2009 15:59 NeverGG wrote: I'm not going to comment on their policies etc, but it's a bit rich to call these people douche bags when you've never met any of them. I *have* and they're actually very nice people. To the point of escorting me home safely once when we all stayed out very late after WL finals and also one of the referees was told by his boss to make sure I was safe on the subway home after one of the other finals.
I'm pretty sure there are a lot of very nice people working in KeSPA, as you say. It's just unfortunate that the ones making the decisions seem to be... well, idiots =/
QFT.
Anyways, this is a HUGE dissapointment for me. GOM was the first korean tournament I followed and I just love it. You always get to see huge upsets and lesser known players stepping up and showing their potential, not to mention the value of seeing oldschool players in the booths again (Reach vs Flash hwut?).
I want to see Baby take out Jangbi with some ridiculous dropships again. I want to see Backho stealing series from Stork against all odds again. I wan't to see Shuttle going on a rampage again.
On September 16 2009 15:51 psion0011 wrote: LOL at some people jumping at kespa's defense, saying they have done good things for esports and starcraft. Fuck no they have not, superdanielman very clearly explained in one of his blogs that everyone who was involved in helping develop starcraft, setting up the drafts, pro licenses, starleagues, proleagues, etc etc are no longer working at kespa, and everybody who is in kespa NOW is a huge douchebag. Alright I added that last part but the point still stands, kespa is a cancer on starcraft.
I'm not going to comment on their policies etc, but it's a bit rich to call these people douche bags when you've never met any of them. I *have* and they're actually very nice people. To the point of escorting me home safely once when we all stayed out very late after WL finals and also one of the referees was told by his boss to make sure I was safe on the subway home after one of the other finals.
If you goto North Korea and say you are THE GREAT LEADER'S biggest fan, you will also get treathed very well, but that doesnt make the country any better because they are still fucking insane.
Did you just compare KeSPA to the North Korean government?
On September 16 2009 15:51 psion0011 wrote: LOL at some people jumping at kespa's defense, saying they have done good things for esports and starcraft. Fuck no they have not, superdanielman very clearly explained in one of his blogs that everyone who was involved in helping develop starcraft, setting up the drafts, pro licenses, starleagues, proleagues, etc etc are no longer working at kespa, and everybody who is in kespa NOW is a huge douchebag. Alright I added that last part but the point still stands, kespa is a cancer on starcraft.
I'm not going to comment on their policies etc, but it's a bit rich to call these people douche bags when you've never met any of them. I *have* and they're actually very nice people. To the point of escorting me home safely once when we all stayed out very late after WL finals and also one of the referees was told by his boss to make sure I was safe on the subway home after one of the other finals.
I'm pretty sure there are a lot of very nice people working in KeSPA, as you say. It's just unfortunate that the ones making the decisions seem to be... well, idiots =/
Eliminating competition in its infancy is idiotic?
You'll be great in the business world. As a consumer I'll fully support you.
On September 16 2009 19:18 hyouro wrote: But regarding the topic at hand... Blizzard can pull the whole plug on South Korea and just laugh while the money steamrolls from World of Wankers. Blizzard/activision must be the richest gaming company so if they lose south korea they wont go QQ, they would go hmm we are gonna lose "10 mil dollers"..... FUCK THAT we just make another wow expansion, problem solved
Blizzard can't and will not just pull the plug on South Korea. Firstly 4.5 million of the 11 million copies of Starcraft were sold in South Korea. They will be hoping to sell a similar amount if not more of SC2 there. In fact SC's success in SK is probably the biggest reason for them making SC2 in the first place.
If Blizzard can sell 4million copies of SC2 in SK at an average of $20, thats $80 million of revenue not $10million. (also excluding multiplier effects of customers buying other Blizzard products) Blizzard and no other company would ever walk away from this, especially over a dispute like this.
Moreover Blizzard desperately wants e-sports to work for SC2. They want it to go global.
1. People who watch e-sports will buy the game as with SC in SK 2. They want to control the leagues because they've seen that e-sports can generate big revenue models. If it took off globally it could be huge and very profitable. At the very least they would hope to make big money through licencing deals.
The problem is they need SK and the SK leagues to spark interest and kickstart a global takeoff. Therefore to some extent they need Kespa. Thus they will never just pull the plug on SK.
Also does anyone know the development cost for SC2? It would be interesting to know.
Apologies for my ignorance here, but why is everyone making opinions about an issue they don't understand? I think it goes without speaking that NeverGG knows a ton more about KesPA than a two post forum newbie. Also, I don't understand: what exactly did KesPa do to GOM besides not sponsoring it? From what the original post says, most teams chose not to participate. I didn't see a word about KeSPA pressure....
On September 17 2009 01:43 SerpentFlame wrote: Apologies for my ignorance here, but why is everyone making opinions about an issue they don't understand? I think it goes without speaking that NeverGG knows a ton more about KesPA than a two post forum newbie. Also, I don't understand: what exactly did KesPa do to GOM besides not sponsoring it? From what the original post says, most teams chose not to participate. I didn't see a word about KeSPA pressure....
You didn’t see a word about KeSPA pressure because there was no pressure from KeSPA. It was the decision of teams themselves. The current schedule is too tight.
On September 16 2009 15:51 psion0011 wrote: LOL at some people jumping at kespa's defense, saying they have done good things for esports and starcraft. Fuck no they have not, superdanielman very clearly explained in one of his blogs that everyone who was involved in helping develop starcraft, setting up the drafts, pro licenses, starleagues, proleagues, etc etc are no longer working at kespa, and everybody who is in kespa NOW is a huge douchebag. Alright I added that last part but the point still stands, kespa is a cancer on starcraft.
I'm not going to comment on their policies etc, but it's a bit rich to call these people douche bags when you've never met any of them. I *have* and they're actually very nice people. To the point of escorting me home safely once when we all stayed out very late after WL finals and also one of the referees was told by his boss to make sure I was safe on the subway home after one of the other finals.
I'm pretty sure there are a lot of very nice people working in KeSPA, as you say. It's just unfortunate that the ones making the decisions seem to be... well, idiots =/
Eliminating competition in its infancy is idiotic?
You'll be great in the business world. As a consumer I'll fully support you.
Sigh, I'm not even talking about that. I'm talking about their absurd rulings (DQing someone for writing PP instead of PPP to pause the game, AFTER his monitor broke? REALLY), the ridiculous joke of a free agency they held, among many, many other incidents.
Clearly they are complete idiots -_-.
Also, the way they have gone about eliminating said competitor (considering they are - as far as I'm aware - supposed to be the governing body of e-Sports in Korea, not an extension of the corporate wishes of MBC and OGN) is ridiculous.
On September 17 2009 01:43 SerpentFlame wrote: Apologies for my ignorance here, but why is everyone making opinions about an issue they don't understand? I think it goes without speaking that NeverGG knows a ton more about KesPA than a two post forum newbie. Also, I don't understand: what exactly did KesPa do to GOM besides not sponsoring it? From what the original post says, most teams chose not to participate. I didn't see a word about KeSPA pressure....
The people who sit on kespa are the ones who run the teams. Connect the dots.
Kespa is a body backed by the Korean Government. The issue resides in the fact that the key decision makers are representatives from the various companies that sponsor the progaming teams. ie, KTF has a rep, SKT has a rep, STX, IEG (for estro) MBC, OGN etc etc. The presidency role rotates. Currently it is being held by SK Telecom. It's very easy to see why these issues arise when there is HUGE potential for the reps to be making decisions in the interests of their companies and not the players or esports in general. Look at the free agency travesty.
It's funny how many people posting that don't actually understand squat about what KeSPA is and what KeSPA actually does and exactly why this conflict started in the first place.
"South Korea, however, accounts for almost half of the sales. HanbitSoft, the local distributor, says StarCraft has sold 4.5 million copies there."
Note that this figure is out of date since the article is from 2007. Since then Starcraft has sold over a million more copies more so this number may be even higher now.
A) SC2 will undoubtedly sell FAR MORE than 11 million copies. B) Pro gamers will never stand up for themselves in Korea because... that is not the Korean way. Management rules, not the stars like in the US.
On September 16 2009 08:06 Adeeler wrote: I hope SC2 overshadows BW in all aspects but BW is 'still' very exciting to watch especially when new maps roll out from time to time.
I think that its partly the pro-players fault for not speaking out; they never say anything but bland scripted stuff all the time, but then there jobs are on the line due to the relationship between the pro teams & kespa. I mean they never got to say anything about how bad the sham FA system was and just had to live with it so they really are to protective over there jobs.
I think it would take someone like Boxer to speak up on the record for kespa to ever take head as he has the standing to say what he wants. Probably any of the top big names too; Jaedong, Bisu, Flash etc etc etc.
Why would the pro players say anything about it. Keeping the GOM tourney alive isn't their priority. If you watched GOM last season, you'll see that most players didn't even care about it. The quality of games were terrible.
Starcraft tv ratings have fallen since 2006, mostly because of the over saturation of starcraft tv. That's why even after killing GOM, Kespa decided to reduce the amount of proleague days from 5 to 4. They hope that starcraft ratings will increase by reducing the amount of bw content there is right now. Maybe then prominent companies will begin to sponsor the MSL again.
If Kespa decides that reducing the amount of games is good for esports, it'll probably be good for progamers too. In that case, players have no reason to want to play in the GOM tourney.
The largest prize pool, and you think the players didn't care about it? That's ridiculous. If you thought all the games were of low quality, you clearly weren't watching what I was.
Sure, reducing the amount of SC/BW games might be a good idea, but why drop the one that has a GROWING audience, mainly thanks to the English casting? That's biting the hand that feeds you.
And people think SC2 is going to help this. Probably not, for several reasons. First off, there won't be pro gamers who are at the level of SC/BW players for a long time--it takes time to get really good at a new game, even if you've played its predecessor. But before that can even happen, SC2 will need to go through many balance changes, because there's no way it can be as well balanced as a game that has matured over 10+ years. And then it has to be accepted by the gamers, and the community, as a game worthy of the legacy of SC/BW, so pros take the time, networks get the sponsorship, and people watch.
I bolded the parts that I really want to address. First yeah, they care more about the OSL (and even the MSL) than GOM. Why? Prestige. Money, while the main issue here, didn't mean squat to the players compared to the thought of winning the OSL or MSL. As for the latter part - KeSPA gets nothing from us, why the fuck would they care?
On September 16 2009 15:51 psion0011 wrote: LOL at some people jumping at kespa's defense, saying they have done good things for esports and starcraft. Fuck no they have not, superdanielman very clearly explained in one of his blogs that everyone who was involved in helping develop starcraft, setting up the drafts, pro licenses, starleagues, proleagues, etc etc are no longer working at kespa, and everybody who is in kespa NOW is a huge douchebag. Alright I added that last part but the point still stands, kespa is a cancer on starcraft.
I'm not going to comment on their policies etc, but it's a bit rich to call these people douche bags when you've never met any of them. I *have* and they're actually very nice people. To the point of escorting me home safely once when we all stayed out very late after WL finals and also one of the referees was told by his boss to make sure I was safe on the subway home after one of the other finals.
If you goto North Korea and say you are THE GREAT LEADER'S biggest fan, you will also get treathed very well, but that doesnt make the country any better because they are still fucking insane.
But regarding the topic at hand... Blizzard can pull the whole plug on South Korea and just laugh while the money steamrolls from World of Wankers. Blizzard/activision must be the richest gaming company so if they lose south korea they wont go QQ, they would go hmm we are gonna lose "10 mil dollers"..... FUCK THAT we just make another wow expansion, problem solved
Actually, it's quite the contrary - KeSPA is backed by the Korean government. They can just pull the plug on SC/WC and move on with their lives (via ratings).
I think everyone is underestimating KeSPA here and a lot of things aren't being understood properly.
E-sports in Korea is being pulled off of cable packages wholesale, in the last 6 months a majority of people I know with basic cable packages have lost MBCgame or ONgame from their basic cable packages. Starcraft ratings are down, GOM has NO Korean local cable, and the Korean media neither wants nor cares about English language broadcasting. Kespa is a rotating cast of Esports sponsor companies (without whom Esports in Korea doesn't exist) making decisions in their own corporate interest. How's all that foreigner-driven Esports sponsorship and organization going? Where are all the foreigner won coming from to the Korean scene? E-sports in Korea would certainly take it in a bad way without Starcraft suddenly, but at the same time it'd survive, an equivalent would be spawned and they'd move on.
To me, if anything, GOM is a harbinger of the diminishing corporate returns of Broodwar in face of impending SC 2. It just doesn't make sense for the big sponsors to funnel money into a league targeted largely towards foreigners in a dying game when their support for an upcoming successful game is guaranteed by corporate loyalty/success.
If I had a dollar for all the times I've heard starcraft was dying...
I'd still have a couple less than from hearing 'SC2 will replace starcraft'.
Really though, how are the vested interests going to get in deep with SC2 when they're actively fighting against Blizzard on this front? If Blizzard realizes they can make a sweet deal on all of this, what stops them from EULAing it up to prevent anyone from even broadcasting the game without being directly involved? Hell, what happens if they reward GOM with restricted rights? What does kespa do then?
And even if they were to manage to get in on SC2, are they willing to take a loss if it turns out to be less competitively viable or less fun to watch than SC? Honestly, I think they're best off sitting on what they have.
On September 18 2009 18:03 QibingZero wrote: If I had a dollar for all the times I've heard starcraft was dying...
I'd still have a couple less than from hearing 'SC2 will replace starcraft'.
Really though, how are the vested interests going to get in deep with SC2 when they're actively fighting against Blizzard on this front? If Blizzard realizes they can make a sweet deal on all of this, what stops them from EULAing it up to prevent anyone from even broadcasting the game without being directly involved? Hell, what happens if they reward GOM with restricted rights? What does kespa do then?
See, if Blizzard does that, KeSPA will probably influence the rating to fuck Blizzard over. Let's just remember - KeSPA consists of reps from Samsung, SK Telecom, KT and CJ among others - those are all MAJOR corporations in South Korea that can throw money and influence around. The problem for Blizzard is they can EULA SC2 all they want, it just will get fucked over in Korea and they will move on with their lives while Blizzard just dumped all these years into making an eSports-oriented game then lost their largest market.
I think "You can't fight fire with fire" is the appropriate line for the situation.
See, if Blizzard does that, KeSPA will probably influence the rating to fuck Blizzard over. Let's just remember - KeSPA consists of reps from Samsung, SK Telecom, KT and CJ among others - those are all MAJOR corporations in South Korea that can throw money and influence around. The problem for Blizzard is they can EULA SC2 all they want, it just will get fucked over in Korea and they will move on with their lives while Blizzard just dumped all these years into making an eSports-oriented game then lost their largest market.
I think "You can't fight fire with fire" is the appropriate line for the situation.
Starcraft is its own entity in Korea. Almost all people know about in some way. KESPA doesn't keep Starcraft alive, it is Starcraft that keeps KESPA alive. These major corporations are benefiting from Starcraft through advertising for the relative price of .. peanuts lol.
On September 19 2009 04:14 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: See, if Blizzard does that, KeSPA will probably influence the rating to fuck Blizzard over. Let's just remember - KeSPA consists of reps from Samsung, SK Telecom, KT and CJ among others - those are all MAJOR corporations in South Korea that can throw money and influence around. The problem for Blizzard is they can EULA SC2 all they want, it just will get fucked over in Korea and they will move on with their lives while Blizzard just dumped all these years into making an eSports-oriented game then lost their largest market.
I think "You can't fight fire with fire" is the appropriate line for the situation.
Korea might be the biggest market now, but Blizzard is looking to change and move beyond that. I think Blizzard would gladly lose Korea and gain everywhere else if it means SC2 would be a successful E-Sport. While normally I'd doubt such a lofty goal I've learned before to not really doubt Blizzard. The quality of everything they put out is top notch and I have a hard time believing they'd half-ass an E-Sports league should they truly set their sights on running one instead of just endorsing one.
Im away 1-2 months and all hell breaks lose, but I guess that's how the world goes by, day after day as in everything always seems to be going to hell.
This is a rather sad ordeal with Gom, Kespa and the whole "industrialization" of E-Sports, I don't have anything to add other than that TL posters blow away other wannabe gaming forums when it comes to having a discussion. (At least all of the one's I have experienced)
I have faith D: everything will be alright, and then a year later we can all laugh at all the nerdrage within this thread. Blizzard and KeSPA will make good negotiations, and GOM can come back. There will be more SL's around the world, then the WCG will consist of the winners of these leagues. Just my 2 cents.
I just like how some random guy talks about how he knows the players care more about prestige of OSL/MSL than winning money...especially in a profession like this where your shelf life isnt neccesarily very long. Hell if SC1 isnt gonna be around for much longer, Id think most players are worried about a payday.
On September 24 2009 15:53 lilsusie wrote: a little birdy told me that Season 4 *IS* in the works... but not sure if it's Korean league or Foreigners - I didn't ask for much detail.
On September 24 2009 15:53 lilsusie wrote: a little birdy told me that Season 4 *IS* in the works... but not sure if it's Korean league or Foreigners - I didn't ask for much detail.
thanks for the uppdate and im not too picky about what they will do, cuz w.e that they are gonna do is gonna be proffesionall and that's what wee need outside of korea.. even if there are no korean pro-gamers in the S4 the tournament will be as good as the once with koreans so this realy got me happy
On September 24 2009 15:53 lilsusie wrote: a little birdy told me that Season 4 *IS* in the works... but not sure if it's Korean league or Foreigners - I didn't ask for much detail.
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing this, Susie.
Hmm, it seems then, that what Daniel is saying is different to what I am hearing from GOM. I guess we just have to wait to see what actually comes of this.
Susan says: when is season 4 starting? many people are asking GOM guy says: oh.. 블리자드랑 케스파랑 협의 중이에요 (Blizzard and Kespa are in negotiations) 아마 12월쯤 (Possibly, December-ish) Susan says: ah, ok. thank you GOM guy says: ^^
On September 30 2009 13:32 lilsusie wrote: (Changed the guy's name to protect identity)
Susan says: when is season 4 starting? many people are asking GOM guy says: oh.. 블리자드랑 케스파랑 협의 중이에요 (Blizzard and Kespa are in negotiations) 아마 12월쯤 (Possibly, December-ish) Susan says: ah, ok. thank you GOM guy says: ^^
On September 30 2009 13:32 lilsusie wrote: (Changed the guy's name to protect identity)
Susan says: when is season 4 starting? many people are asking GOM guy says: oh.. 블리자드랑 케스파랑 협의 중이에요 (Blizzard and Kespa are in negotiations) 아마 12월쯤 (Possibly, December-ish) Susan says: ah, ok. thank you GOM guy says: ^^
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.gomtv.net/img/gnb_classic3.jpg)
)... BUT NOT GOM...
![[image loading]](http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:qQDlkz8UuPLKdM:http://michaeljosephtherapy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/shame17.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/d/d5/360_moonwalk.png)
![[image loading]](http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs188.snc1/6290_659118040188_18705769_38371509_2939605_n.jpg)
