EPT[GG] Red Army Mafia
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Lucas, Opz, and Falcynn are innocent. Yay! | ||
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On July 29 2009 13:01 Foolishness wrote: Anyone who calls other people innocent right off the bat is clearly mafia Stuff it mafia. I'm not kidding. | ||
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On July 29 2009 13:08 Falcynn wrote: Anyone who criticizes someone for trying to neatly organize information is clearly trying to bury the truth! Which makes them mafia. *Hi Fives* | ||
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But I agree with the rest ^_^, especially concerning people making useless posts to fit in or cover up important posts. | ||
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Day 1 clues have never lead to finding the mafia. Actually, probably the best use of day 1 clues is to look at who you think is mafia from them, and instead believe them innocent as you're almost 100% sure to be wrong. @Ver: if someone gets blue sniped it's because they are dumb, not because someone figured it out reading their posts(unless they intentionally did it). Then the number of players then who are not considered dumb is...0? Because yes it happens from reading their posts (or lack of). Doesn't really matter though for this game, as the mafia will not have 1 person doing their targeting until it is too late to matter. But for the smurf game it is a serious concern, as always. | ||
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On July 29 2009 19:50 Shikyo wrote: So wait, why are so many people voting for L? ionno, wanting to cause some chaos? | ||
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But there's no way that our slippery beverage boy is some random new guy. Either he's some incompetent newbie smurf or he's mafia. | ||
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Speaking of which, that mspaint is HILARIOUS. DTs/NKVD should choose to show up as Veteran. It's as simple as that. Mafia will have to make tough choices when they RC a vet and will end up losing KP if they want to make that choice. Meanwhile there are no slipups or false accusations of 2 agents. As for myself, I'm taking this a little less seriously. Read into it all you want but it won't tell you anything. Anyway, nearly all the major posters should be innocent. Good for us. Keep sitting back mafia, it's your grave. | ||
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It's so fitting | ||
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They are 2 different people, it should be abundantly clear by looking at their writing styles and content. Nobody should have any doubt on this. If you do read MountainDew's posts and look at Foolishness's posts from previous games it's pretty clear that one guy is a high level player while the other is very raw and frankly not very good. Caller basically jumped the gun and instead of asking around and looking at a variety of evidence, just went up and banned them solely on IPs/the pms which don't say anything (this is why town loses at mafia lol). Then when notified that they were innocent he refused for let them back in for who knows what reason. Caller you're a good guy and I know you mean well but you can't pull stuff like this in the first place and you especially can't try to be a bureaucrat and cover your butt after it happens. They deserve a full explanation and a clear exoneration. Mistakes happen, but don't try to cover them up or minimize them. P.S. Foolishness didn't know MountainDew was his roommate. | ||
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Yeah it's okay. I don't want to make a big deal out of it, just want to make sure that a) Everyone knows they are innocent b) they get an apology Foolishness said he's fine with sitting out, just wants everyone to know he didn't cheat. | ||
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Wonder if I should make a power play. Anyway Kuja is getting killed tonight hf. We need to decide on people for DTs and I'm kinda lazy about making a list so talk about that. | ||
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Everyone PM me your roles I understand that, aside from the veteran DT plan, which I am thankful at least one of the DTs have followed (because it's the optimal strategy), I haven't posted anything in the thread for a variety of reasons. Thus most of this post will give reasons for my plan, actions, and innocence. It will be quite long winded, but as I am attempting to get a mass roleclaim, I will need to give a good deal of evidence to convince people of my innocence. First of all, my thoughts and plans for this game. In the beginning it was clear that this game cannot be played as a normal game can. The mafia is extremely strong but isolated. Thus any proper plan must make use of their lack of knowledge against them while preventing them from learning key knowledge. This can be done in two ways: firstly, confusion, secondly, infiltration. While the latter is the most ideal, it's not something I can easily pull off. I am one of the most well known players here and thus most people are inherently going to be suspicious of anything I try to do. So I had to settle for the less optimal, but easier to pull off strategy of confusion. In doing so I had to remain quiet of who the mafia were to prevent them from doing anything. That is why I have 3 more mafia found right now but can't release their names. I want them dead but I need vigis to do so. And while I'm getting vigi info, why not get the whole kitchen sink and seal the game while I'm at it? Over the course of the day 1 and night 1 I sent this pm to about 40-45 people (I avoided certain people for various reasons). As you are aware, it's vital that people who have the same objectives know each other and coordinate a common strategy. I believe that our objectives are the same. It's not necessary to respond immediately. I trust my own analysis and there's no need for you to trust me right away. When the right time comes, I'll be here. Now my ultimate objective of this were to: a) get a number of responses and get some solid analysis from that information b) get the mafia to waste a rolecheck me I designed it so that it was ambigious enough to dissuade people from posting it in the thread and thus realizing that others received it, while making mafia curious enough to waste a rolecheck on me because again, they did not know anyone else received it. Yeah some DT checks would be wasted as well, but at least they would get in contact with me and I could coordinate them (luckily only 1 has so little wastage was made). I didn't want to post in the thread because I wanted to seem suspicious (as well as I could after posting that veteran/dt plan which made me look too obviously innocent lol) and milk this bait pm for as much as I could. Note that pm's should be read bottom up. + Show Spoiler [Catching Clazziquai] + I honestly did not try to catch Clazz this way, he just made a gigantic error. I got this response immediately after sending out my bait pm. (me) You already trusted me with your role by saying that . It's okay though, we're on the same side. Whether you trust me or not is up to you. If you don't, you can confirm it tonight. If you do, then we got to find 2 others to confirm. I have some ideas. ---------------------------------------------- (Clazz) What role are you? I can't trust you so easily. :/ Trust me? With what? The only reason he'd want to trust me is if I was mafia. Responding to that pm in the first place is already a pointer in the direction of mafia but his response is so blatant it just stares in the face. Furthermore I sent him a response after basically telling him we're both mafia, and then he never responds back though he is clearly active and responding to other pm's. The only explanation for this is that he is mafia and rolechecked me. I gave all the evidence to Ace several hours before the end of the election yet due to some strange mishaps Clazz didn't die. However, on that evidence and probably wanting to confirm my own alignment, Ace investigated Clazz in the night and confirmed it. I considered posting in the thread to support Ace's claim but the winds flowed in our favor and Clazz died without problems, so it was unnecessary. + Show Spoiler [Catching Kuja] + Kuja was frankly an obvious catch because Kuja only plays when he has a role. Thus from the moment that he started playing and responding to an early pm I knew he had a role and just had to find out what it was. Here were the pm's: (Me) Well here's the thing: I know you have a role, I'm just not sure which one. My guess is that because you didn't react much to my accusation of you as blue, you aren't a blue. A real blue would be more afraid or defensive. That leaves you as mafia, yes? Welcome to the club. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: (Kuja) why u say that? ----------------------------------------- Original Message: (Me) You're a blue role aren't you. Which one? Having gotten his response, I made stuff up and slanted my 'interpretation' of events to put pressure on him in an optimal way to judge his reaction (during the night I might add). So if he was blue, he would have responded with a defense. After all, a blue doesn't want to be falsely accused as mafia and would certainly not ignore someone who calls them out as mafia. They might even try to play along to infiltrate. Basically as a blue he has no reason not to reply to that pm. But if he was mafia, he would inherently be afraid in this situation. First thing he would've done is rolecheck me. And when that RC comes up as green, he'd realize what I was doing and see to benefit to talking with me. Him being mafia is the only explanation for not responding to that pm, for there was no way he was green (he posted in the thread several times and I had someone else PM him to confirm he's reading them). Clazz is dead and is proven to be mafia. Kuja admitted his role later to Scara for a double confirmation. Two down. This situation puts the mafia in quite a pickle. They must kill me tonight before I can get all the roles and coordinate everyone, for should I live to the next night I will certainly have a confirmed innocent to pass on the information to and will have coordinated all of the town power roles. Thus the mafia must kill me tonight. But because and I will surely get medics to protect me, they cannot afford to skimp on hits yet at the same cannot coordinate enough hits. So just as the night before I will waste the mafia's actions, or they will face a lost game for sure. Either way, we win. In a way this is an interesting experiment. I caught 2 mafia for certain and set them up to be killed through the appropriate channels. In addition, 3 more have already been found and will be killed once the vigi's get in touch with me. Will you trust me, having done all this? What more is necessary to gain that trust? This is a game winning move if you feel you can trust me, so read the evidence and make that choice. Summary: Everyone PM me your roles. Yes, even if you are a green. This is the game deciding move, because now the town will have more information and many more numbers than the mafia, who will have to waste another turn or lose to a town that knows and coordinates all the roles. | ||
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I can't reveal the mafia because a) it would give them a point to rally around and b) it would compromise certain individuals. I didn't pm certain people for a variety of reasons. For some I was already certain of their alleigance/role, for others I didn't want them to stir up unnecessary trouble (i,e you L, as I certainly have no reason to be afraid of you). I have 20 roles so far, keep em coming! Guess a lot of people are inactive or something. Really the most important are the vigis which I still need. Btw I'm not out to steal thunder but I do have an ulterior motive for doing this, besides as an experiment, for I am well aware the tenuous circumstances of doing this move now ^_^ | ||
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Vigis (and other roles) I need you to get in contact with me. Mafia killing mafia like Zato-1 are exactly why (but not only why) I can't post their names in the thread. | ||
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Rol and scamp are already getting taken care of tonight. Whoever the last vigi is, can you kill Shikyo? He came up mafia in a rolecheck. Ace is killing Chezinu I believe, so we should be in good shape then. Whoever hasn't roleclaimed so far should do so to Motbob asap. He's a confirmed medic. | ||
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My "power play" was actually another idea but in the end it would take too much time and so I just did a mass roleclaim experiment on flimsy evidence (yeah everything I said was true but nobody had any idea of knowing it). Best case scenario, I'd be able to coordinate the vigis/demomen to kill a bunch without any time to react and waste a bunch of mafia actions on me. Worst case scenario, people would suspect me, oh boy. In the end I probably got about half the roles, Of course nobody had any real reason to trust me but I got roles from people that I had already guessed correctly, had already trusted me, or didn't really think it'd make much of a difference. I had guessed that I'd end up with more roles than I actually did, so the town was rightly (or stupidly, as the next part shows) cautious. After motbob was a confirmed medic, shame on the remaining blues for not roleclaiming then. As for hits tonight, it looks like mafia either used several rolechecks or double stacked several people (they certainly did on motbob we had another medic on him). The Plexa/DT ruse looks like it may have worked as well. Mafia only ended up with 3 hits or something out of probably 7-9 people alive, so things turned out quite well. Btw guys I wouldn't put much stock in Caller saying it's not over etc. In his last game he kept warning the mafia about that there might be a lot of meth dealers and that it wasn't over when it was 16 greens vs 8 mafia lol. There are probably 4-6 mafia left, the key thing is that innocents start posting so that we can narrow down remaining suspects. | ||
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On August 07 2009 07:38 Fishball wrote: I also agree that mafia is at disadvantage in this game. As much as I encourage people to talk over the rules before implementing them into a game, I tend not to stick my nose into the middle. A lesson that I learned is that the host (nobody specific) rarely, and most of the time, unwillingly to make any changes to the rules after they are setup. I 100% agree with this too in general. All games really need to get looked at by the group as a whole because it's just so incredibly hard to balance a new game design on your own. | ||
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I threw a bunch of names on a list of primary people we should be looking at. Chaoser Malongo Softer l10f Infundibulum Teks ilovekt Falcynn dinmsab c.ngek myheronoob railxp siefu decaf barth fishball itspaul 3 lions Sinensis From here I'm going to single out these people for being very active in PMs yet doing absolutely nothing in the thread. This is how Shikyo was narrowed down (admist a few other things). Chaoser Infundibulum c.ngek Softer Malongo Basically innocents need to start giving reasons why they are innocent and prove themselves so we can isolate the mafia. Force everyone to talk, mafia must blend in or get smoked out. If you don't know what to say, talk about what you've thought throughout the game, who you think is suspicious, and why. Always provide reasons. If we can't get anything else I say we just take 2 from the smaller list and kill them. | ||
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