[GG] Red Army Mafia
|Forum Index > TL Mafia|
I distinctly remember playing one game in which Caller was the mod where the game ended within a day because it was imbalanced. Caller never revealed the roles nor did he reveal how his clues worked. Let me dig that out though.
For reference. Compare yourselves.
It was a bright day in Liquidia and Caller was doing what men usually do on a Saturday morning: struggle out of a bed with a strange woman. It was an unlucky hour for him, struggling with the crap in his head and stumbling to and fro. Finally, after carefully making sure that he didn’t wake her up, he tip-toed over to his desk and tried to think through his massive hangover.
He flipped through pages and pages of information, but there was just so much of it that keeping his files together was impossible in his completely confused state. This was odd, Caller thought, as Caller lacks alcohol dehydrogenase and can only have one or two drinks before passing out.
Caller proceeded to stumble down the stairs into his kitchen and started brewing some tea, to keep him up to focus on his work as mayor of Liquidia. He figured that the mafia would soon be on to him, and that he had to get his information out in a coherent form-one of his mayoral opponents denounced him for speaking in gibberish and being very poor with using lubricant and honoring bets. That guy had left the town a long time ago, though, and he definitely wasn’t in any of the papers.
Caller then heard someone coming down the steps. Assuming it was the hooker, Caller waved a hand nonchalantly toward the stairway when suddenly the person darted about and threw a knife at him, barely missing Caller’s vas deferens. Caller retaliated by pulling out his pistol when suddenly another figure rose out of the ground, knocking him down on the marble floor and banging his neck against the hard kitchen counter. Caller tried to move but couldn’t: his spine had been broken and he was now a quadriplegic.
“You shouldn’t have vetoed the free wheelchairs bill,” smirked a new man, clearly the mafia leader, who strolled in the door, banging to some music on his iPod.
“You won’t get away with this…” gasped Caller as a henchman stopped to admire and memorize the scene. Caller knew this man as an artist, and his memory was perfect.
Before Caller could do anything else, somebody cut his jugular vein, and the blood spilled out, staining the otherwise clean floor. He was finished. One of the mafia stayed to close his eyelids, placing a coin on each. Then they were gone, as fast as they had come.
EDIT #2: The first edit was adding in the quote.
On July 29 2009 14:21 MountainDew wrote:
I would like to announce my campaign for office!
First off, my plan will be to lynch an inactive or someone who has posted but not contributed. With 54 people it is safe to assume the mafia is going to be hiding among the guarenteed list of inactives. This is especially true because the mafia do not know the other mafia, and thus they will not have any organized plans.
It is going to be important to weed out the mafia from the inactive list. As an elected official I will promise to do my best to keep the town organized. Since mafia do not know each other, the way for the town to win is to work as a team, since we have this advantage against the mafia, at least for now.
By keeping the town organized, we will be able to avoid a town defeat. The main goal I want to accomplish is to make the mafia afraid of being inactive. If the town is mindlessly killing each other, the mafia will have an easy win as they sit back and watch us die. It is my hope to prevent all this from happening.
Now I understand that nobody here has played mafia with me before, at least to the best of my knowledge. In order to familiarize myself with the town I have read nearly all the mafia games on this forum. By understanding how everyone here plays I will be able to better lead the town to victory.
Many of you may be tempted to not vote for me since there are "vets" playing in this game, and voting for a vet would seem like a safer play than voting for me. However I urge you all to think for yourself and not vote for someone because they merely claim they are experienced or "I'm good at mafia pick me!" in the words of L.
It is true that L is a very good player, so he must be considered as well, once he makes his actual petition. Looking over all the past mafia games, I could not help but be amazed at all the elected officials screwing the town over, when the official was indeed a townsperson. In lots of games, these "veteran players" could not keep the town organized and would ultimately end up getting lynched unneccesarily, doing nothing to help the town and staying silent, or shamefully getting themselves mod killed because they couldn't handle the game. I will do everything I can to keep the town organized and will not succumb to one of these fates.
Thus I urge you all to think for yourselves and not vote for someone based on their "vet" status or their experience. I plan to weed the mafia out of the inactives by keeping information open and the town organized. I consider myself to be more adept to behavioral analysis than clue analysis, especially based on my thoughts when reading the previous games. However all ideas need consideration; Falcynn's topic is a good start for a town victory.
I promise to be active throughout the game, as being inactive, especially as an official, will not benefit the town. I also urge everyone else to be active as well, as the more information the town has the better we can kill the mafia.
That all being said, vote for me. I will keep the town organized to weed out the mafia.
2.) This is the most redundant post I've read so far in this thread. Are you making an effort to make it long to garner as much attention? Everything you said in that post could have been deleted as it's pretty much implied.
I'll edit this post as I continue reading.
On July 29 2009 16:15 MountainDew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2009 15:47 Ace wrote:
For now I'll also vote for Mountain Dew as I like his post. It's clear and to the point.
There's also something I thought about. Look at that rule set. Mafia is supremely fucked. Remember the main advantage Mafia has over the town is that they know who each other are ahead of time and can kill at night much better than the town. Also they have to kill enough of us under a time limit - lol. This is such a fucked condition for them.
Look at it like this: Mafia can essentially choose to Role Check OR Kill. See the problem? They don't know each other. The optimal move would be for all of them to role check people hoping they get lucky to land some mafia. However this conflicts with their win condition - if they don't kill enough of us in time we automatically win. So they really do need to start killing asap. Problem is when they start killing not only do they leave clues to themselves but they might hit another mafia. So they do need to investigate.
The Army has a really good starting stronghold - Mafia have to pick one of those abilities individually each night and both abilities contradict the other early in the game. I'm betting on mafia investigating on Night 1 instead of all going around popping people in fear of hitting each other.
Now for our side we have it pretty simple. We have all the classic Mafia game roles: DT,Medic,Vet,Vigi + a suicide bomber. Unlike them our win condition is more about survival than outright killing all of them. This game we shouldn't be too worried about killing everything that moves - this means no dumb lynches just because a guy has 1 or 2 clues tied to him. Sure we can make mistakes but if we don't lynch it's really not a big deal as we win by surviving also.
Because mafia are not a team for now, it will take the town longer to figure them out. In other mafia games voting patterns could quickly lead to a mafia's defeat. This game the town does not have that information. Depending on how many DT's there are, it might take us a while to figure them all out.
On July 29 2009 16:24 MountainDew wrote:
If your second paragraph here was in response to me, I said voting patterns, not vote checks. Sometimes mafia can get pinned down because they pile on votes on one person to save one of their own. Since mafia does not know each other that won't ever be happening.
Another consequence of this is that bandwagoning is going to happen a lot, and there's not much we can do about it. I want to say that it is quite possible first few days we keep lynching greens because there won't be much debate about it. A bandwagon vote won't help us at all.
Actually, I think you're wrong about the voting patterns. We could get a lot of information from them even if the mafia does not know each other . At least, I have some strategy for interpretting what I see in the other thread.
On July 29 2009 21:32 Sinensis wrote:
I'm new to TL.net mafia, so if you're looking for some objectivity my posts might be relevant to you.
I'm not voting for MountainDew. His entire campaign could have been summed up in three words: "organize" and "kill inactives." In fact, he used the words "inactive" and "organize" six times each in eight short, fluffy, paragraphs. No thank you.
Coltrane isn't going to get my vote either until phrases like "I have a really good strategy, i will post it and after this i will be dead tomorrow unless i am office and have bodyguards." and "i am willing to use you all" start popping up a LOT less, though I do appreciate his more calculated and statistical analysis of the Ukrainian threat.
I've still got some profiles to sift through before I can offer any other perspective.
Finally, somebody knows how to read.
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 29 2009 22:09 coltrane wrote:
Ok, i wrote my numbers and got this:
Ukranians dont know each other. So their DT are independent.
we use THIS FORMULA (check my maths if you want):
All of we are m=53 (of course the ukranian doesnt check himself)
mafia are n
and this represent how many different dets they could get.
And this one:
Just townies are m (thats 54-mafias)
mafia are n
and this represent how many worst cases (all dt goes to different townies)
so, first i have: (in scientific notation)
mafia::how many groups::how many worst cases.
The second column growths MUCH FASTER than the third, but that the
difference is huge when it comes to more than 6 DTS, so, lets say
mafia are 6, pretty sure they are more, they technically kill every
two days, so they mostly will have a potential KP of 6, 1/9 of
townies, in the time townies get 2 lynch to put on the 6 mafias. Thats
not balanced, give caller some credit...
with 9 it has a better balance, but if there are 12 people appearing
as ukranians we balance this to our favor.
There is NOTHING random here, is statistically correct. Like poker.
While in 9 they have 1 of 20 to make an allkill in 12 they only
have 1 of 400. And even if they get the allkill the killing power will
be 9 anyway with 3 agents. And in much cases, when 11 of them succed
on DT townies some of them will not kill because they are townies
Again, if we have 4 DT we are even better. Having our DTs as ukranians
always benefits us. They even difficult the ukranians joining toghether.
I have tested many cases, like when game advances we will notice less
benefits on this due to the targets will reduce for them to DT
So think again, we surely have less DT than them, is easyer for them hunt down agents, and yes, they are our key, so they need to disguise as ukranians, is the only way they will be safe, they will lower KP, and even may infiltrate ukranians
So, you know now, encourage our agents to infiltrate ukranian scum and
our mother russia will be stronger.
edit: didnt knew that : 7 was so splitted it. And said 1 of 40, is clearly 1 of 400.
PM'd. Please respond.
On July 30 2009 00:22 Falcynn wrote:
I vote for Mountain Dew, he seems to have a pretty good campaign platform, and Ace trusts him so I'm convinced for now.
Why not just vote for Ace if his trust solidifies your vote for MountainDew?
On July 30 2009 02:38 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Not counting MountainDew
Mountaindew has three left:
chaoser, vivi, and ilovkt
On July 30 2009 06:59 Ace wrote:
My plan relies on people not being stupid as it always does. When you can point out in any game any time my plan has EVER been wrong and not been the right path to victory then you can question me. I dare any of you to find such a time. I'll wait.
Your plan assumes the mafia isn't stupid. Your plan also assumes the NKVD agents are stupid. There's no opinion in that post, one way or the other. I stated that merely because no one has explicitly pointed this out.
On July 30 2009 07:10 coltrane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2009 07:05 Ace wrote:
On July 30 2009 07:02 L wrote:
Basically, if NKVD do not contact their targets as a rule, rebels finding rebels cannot safely talk to each other upon fear of being confirmed blue, while our NKVD are free to check for town aligned players. This also prevents ukranians from mass pming people with "lol i checked you".
yes they can. Rebels will always talk to any blue they find. Hence, any NKVD dressed as blue will be contacted whether they want to or not. At this point if you assume everyone followed your rule SURE it confirms the Rebel as guilty BUT the Rebel always has the defense that he is also an undercover NKVD Agent and was contacted first.
How do you find out who is the liar?
Come on, THINK the entire scenario through and stop assuming everyone is dumb to the point they can't realize they have a simple alibi that fucks the town over.
easy, you ask for any information of both, then you lynch one and mafia kills the other, or you lynch both. is a 1:1 trade anyway, and it is good.
Coltrane, please put a little more time to express yourself clearly, etc. It's sometimes hard to get through the careless grammar/spelling mistakes, and I'm sure many players overlook your posts as a result. A simple spell-check will go a long way in making yourself more persuasive.
Ace - 11
L - 7
LucasWoJ - 2
Motbob - 1
Shikyo - 1
Malongo - 1
Coltrane - 1
ABSTAIN - 16
People who've changed their votes once:
Falcynn's changed it twice.
On July 31 2009 06:26 coltrane wrote:
Ok, look... my maths arent wrong. by now i have tryed thousands of simulations (its really easy, i have alredy wrote a town generator in c++) and with this rules killing random, lynching random the right balance is something like 10 mafia, 4 vets, 4 medics, 5 NKVD. Anything different will make some kind of imba game, of course could be on more on one role or in other, but if there are more than 12 mafia we are screwed, if they are less than 7 they are, and so on with any of those numbers.
When i changed the rc on NKVD to vets town wins 53% or so... while putting them on ukranian town wins 59% Now i am at work, i dont have my code here, but at night i can post numbers or the complete c++ code if any wants to check it.
I changed my vote to L, since i dont want Ace to be elected and i think most of you just follow the shiny glow of those who selfclaim them as vets.
Please don't post numbers when you get back.
On August 01 2009 19:37 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2009 15:38 ~OpZ~ wrote:
On August 01 2009 11:31 Ace wrote:
On August 01 2009 10:44 Sinensis wrote:
On August 01 2009 09:23 clazziquai wrote:
On August 01 2009 09:04 Elemenope wrote:
On August 01 2009 09:02 clazziquai wrote:
On August 01 2009 08:20 Ace wrote:
On August 01 2009 07:42 clazziquai wrote:
Ace, what makes you say I am Ukranian...?
because someone investigated you and told me you're a Rebel. Duh.
you trust people way too easily?? how do you know he can be trusted......lol wow....
how do we know that we can trust you that you aren't a rebel?
Uhh, so by saying that, you think I'm a Ukranian Rebel. What makes you so sure?
Yeah, someone "rolechecked" me and said that I am a rebel. Why do you trust him more than you trust me? Fuck, I or anyone else could have done the same. This seriously confuses me. Just because Ace is the town leader? Please enlighten me.
However like you said in your post, I can't prove to you guys that I am not a rebel
This shit sucks.
But the decision is up to the public. Get rid of me and you waste a lynch.
Oh well. Fucking pathetic.
Clazz, let me explain this to you.
If we lynch the informant and he's a rebel, sure they're down one but we learn NOTHING.
If we lynch no one, we make no progress.
If we lynch you and you're a rebel, they're down one and we now have access to an NVDK we can trust.
Lynching you is the most logical course of action.
actually it's a bit more than that. Normally on Day 1 the accusing DT is lynched first so we know which direction to go. However this game is a bit different:
1.) NKVDs can disguise as Rebels.
2.) We've already exhausted the idea that no NKVD should disguise themselves as Rebels
With both 1 and 2 out of the way, this brings about the fact that anyone investigated is really likely to be a Rebel. Even ignoring Clazz's pitiful defense for a while I normally wouldn't have even brought it out into the open but Clazz had another strike against him - this:
This is the list of people that voted for L. I wasn't kidding when I said this list is suspect. Everyone who voted on this list with the exception of L himself painted them self a suspect. L literally ran on NO platform and said so himself. Myself and MountainDew were the only ones who made a real platform, while L and Lucaswoj didn't. It would even be better if any of these people stated a reason for voting L that made some sense but barely anyone did. These were my first suspects of the game along with the people who have been shadowing me. So Clazz got caught on a very suspect list, got RCd and flipped Rebel which we know is damn near accurate right now and is using the Vivi57 defense of lynch me and you'll be mad which we know is shit.
Clazz has 3 strikes against him. It's over.
Wow fuck off Ace...I actually like L because...he isn't a dick like you. Think I've said that before actually...And I've seen him with nice clue analysis, so him living longer is more of a plus to me. Is that a point you'd like to argue too?
And Ace's belief that NKVD's shouldn't disguise as rebels is still something I don't agree on. So we haven't beaten that horse dead yet Ace. Disorganization amongst the mafia = plus. The rebel's can't risk messaging that way because the agent can tell the public. But you're too stupid to realize that?
you're bad at this game. Just shut the fuck up and be quiet. Let the good players do their work.
Scara, I'm going to PM you shortly.
On August 02 2009 06:53 clazziquai wrote:
Ace is a fucking douche. I am a rebel. All rebels ROLE CALL to me NOW BEFORE I DIE.
We will get organized and we will bring down this communist state we are living in.
This is why Ace is the worst mafia player probably in the history of the game. He knows exactly what I mean as do others.
On August 02 2009 06:59 clazziquai wrote:
WHY CHECK ME? WHAT DID I EVER DOOOOO LOL
IT'S LIKE MY FIRST MAFIA GAME IN 3 MONTHS FFS
ROFL. You didn't have to be RC'd believe me when I say that.