EPTl10f, you might want to read my post for office a couple of pages back, and then read other people's posts, and then decide who you really want for sherif. You really shouldn't vote just because a person has the most votes. But of course it's not like I mind you voting for me, just make sure to decide to do so yourself.
Pyrry's Mafia Game - GG - Page 2
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
l10f, you might want to read my post for office a couple of pages back, and then read other people's posts, and then decide who you really want for sherif. You really shouldn't vote just because a person has the most votes. But of course it's not like I mind you voting for me, just make sure to decide to do so yourself. | ||
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Shikyo
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I would also like to propose that DTs rolecheck the losing parties of the elections asap. As was said in the other mafia game, it's likely at least one mafia is attempting to get elected, and so the losing candidates would be ideal targets for the DTs, assuming that no other, higher priority targets come up. | ||
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Shikyo
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On May 19 2009 09:13 softer wrote: Except that mafia candidates are likely to end up in office.. That's true, but we have to prevent that before DTs can be used. Also, mafia only have 6 votes for the person anyway, we'll just need to vote intelligently. After that, we wouldn't be able to do anything about that anyway, so we should just dt check the other candidates. If they all are innocent, chances are that there's a mafia in the office. At least by then we should become suspicious of the people in office and figure out who isn't making sense, although we probably should be able to catch onto it even sooner. Of course, if someone has a better idea or at least a good one, I'm sure we'd all love to hear it. | ||
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Shikyo
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On May 19 2009 09:24 Foolishness wrote: Shikyo, it is interesting that you mention mafia only have 6 votes for a person, obviously since a candidate cannot vote for himself. Looking at what's happened so far, you have not yet voted for someone, and you also have stated that you are iffy about voting altogether. Clearly, a mafia running for office would not vote for anyone else as that would lessen the chances of him winning. Also not to mention you have received some votes from some not very active people, which seems suspicious. Yes, only 6 votes for a person. 7 mafia total, 1 being the candidate. I think I got the math right. If you've actually looked at the other candidate's platforms that might partly be a reason for why those inactive people haven't voted for them, although I'm sure you considered that. Actually, a mafia running for office most likely would vote for someone. Namely, a player he thinks wouldn't be that useful in the office. Voting wouldn't decrease the mafia electee's chances at all. If he's close to dropping out as third, the mafia electee will just vote for the person who's winning. If he's winning, he'll vote for the person who'd be least useful in office. It's easy to think that abstaining would make your chances of getting into the office, but that's not really true. It might be relevant if the mafia electee was specifically trying to win, but as has been said already, it seems like the role of the Mayor would benefit mafia more than the Sheriff, and hence mafia has no reason to do that. If it was a 3-way tie, the electee will just vote for someone who's lost his chances to win anyway. Oh yes. And a townie electee would vote just the same if he was trying to get elected, so that doesn't make a difference in my eyes. If it does, won't mind admitting that I'm wrong. On May 19 2009 09:29 teks wrote: Yeah I also proposed this idea earlier in this thread. I'm sure you are also aware that this does raise questions about your status as well, seeing how you're making this proposition when you can be relatively sure to get into office. If you do happen to be the only red participating in the election, not only will you gain an office position, but also make the DT's waste role checks. Even if there is a chance this could happen, I still support this idea. In the case that the DT's do not find any mafia amongst the remaining candidates, we gain two things: 1) The possibility of there being mafia in office 2) Forming a Town Hall consisting of DT's and the losing candidates. This would prove useful as the candidates are people who say they are experienced and active. If the DT's DO find a mafia, all the better :p I thought I already agreed with you back then, but I think I did that only in my mind. I guess you could get suspicious of me, but that can't really be helped and I still think it'd be the best thing to do. Of course, if there'd be better suspects for role checks, they might get a higher priority. About DTs, it might be worth clue checking people with the most clues pointing to them. Jayme, for example, would be a likely target for a clue check. On May 19 2009 09:33 So no fek wrote: I highly doubt that all the mafia would vote for one candidate. Especially in a smaller game. The smart thing for them to do would have a few people vote for the candidate they want, enough that if a few townies join in, they secure the election, while the remaining mafia members vote for a townie to toss off suspicion. And the main problem with the DT checking the other candidates, is it wastes their limited amount of rolechecks, with no reasoning behind rolechecking them other than "they ran for mayor and didn't win". I'm not saying it's a bad idea, because we can almost always assume that mafia wants a position of power, and thus is likely to run for mayor. If we rolecheck and get two townies, we can lynch the mayor, as he's likely mafia. But that all seems like a very risky way of doing things. We use up rolechecks on iffy suspects, and if worse came to worse, we lynch a townie mayor because the other candidates came up townie. These are actually valid concerns, and even though I think it'd be a good idea, we still should give a higher rolecheck priority to more... suspected suspects. But even if they turn green, we can't go lynching the mayor for no reason, we have to closely study his votes and what he's been saying and such, and if something feels off, then it might be good to lynch him. I love how Foolishness is basically doing nothing in this thread but casting suspicion on me, without actually considering for a second that it might be possible that some people actually like my campaign better than the others'. I think before this he only posted twice before, let's see... Oh, you were saying that lynching inactives is a bad idea and that we should be lynching suspicious people, and then you're basically saying that I'm that suspicious person. Interesting, although I don't really find a person, who says that lynching inactives is a bad idea, all that credible. | ||
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Shikyo
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On May 19 2009 10:12 crate wrote: Keep in mind we are electing two people here. Even if you think Shikyo is the best candidate that doesn't mean the best move is to vote for him. To the candidates: I'd like to see you step it up. The town needs to come up with some sort of plan for the future days. If you're serious about the town winning, then regardless of who's voting for you it's in your best interest to help brainstorm ideas for possible scenarios. None of the four candidates have convinced me they're enough of an asset to ensure the bodyguard protection is worth spending on them. Shikyo probably has the best platform, but it's only talking about himself. What about the rest of your town, guys? This game isn't about winning the election; it's about finding and outing the reds. Here's a start, pulled from my own Mafia experiences in the past and from reading games on this site: I think getting a confirmed towny is a great situation; it lets us roleclaim to that person (who can then compare with the role counts we know) and organizes a mouth for DTs to speak through to give us their information while leaving the fewest number of town-aligned players exposed. Whoever our confirmed towny is should keep everyone on a need-to-know basis so that we can check inconsistencies better--if a mafia roleclaims DT, for instance.... Having an incarceration available for the confirmed towny is also great. This exact scenario happened in Chuiu's Mafia 5 as I suggested earlier. The problem is getting a confirmed towny. I see two possible ways which I already talked about. The best is a successful Vigi hit on a mafia if we can strongly connect the clue analysis to the Vigi. The other is getting a blocked medic hit on anyone, in which case the medic can confirm the innocence of the person who was hit. Hm... This post is obviously unfinished (how can the mafia try to muddle this plan? how can we as a town get around that? what if we don't get a confirmed towny?). I'll leave it this way for now--I have stuff to do--and see what other people can fill in on it/add to it. When I get a chance I'll come back to my thoughts and see if I can think of other plans should we not be able to confirm a towny. This was another great post by you. And yes, those ways are indeed some that allow you to get a confirmed townie. I think I remember discussion about a vigi calling his hit beforehand and then he's be the confirmed townie, etc, but it didn't really work out for some reason. A successful medic protection is likely to be the best way for this, since the clues might be difficult to connect to the vigi. Unless he spoke before he actually hit, in which case he'd tell who he'll hit(He sends his hit before stepping out, and if the mafia didn't plan to hit him beforehand, he will hit). Then it's simple for the town to connect the clues to the vigi and he would become the confirmed townie. Then he'd be incarcerated for the following night and hopefully by the time mafia could do something, the town would have gotten something going. I'm not sure why this didn't work out in that game, it seems great on paper... I believe we should think of DT checklists for DTs, for both clue checks and role checks, later on. Also, we need a medic list for active people who are important for the town. I'm not sure how far we can plan this before the election is actually over, though. And it's about 4:30 am right now so I think I'll get back to this tomorrow. Most of this stuff was common sense, tomorrow I'll try to write something more interesting. | ||
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On May 19 2009 11:46 Foolishness wrote: Shikyo, just because I've only made a few posts has nothing to do with you getting elected or acting suspicious. Just because you have made the most posts doesn't make you a winner. With that being said, I am running for sheriff. Why? Because I am not Shikyo. So far this game, Shikyo has done nothing but post a lot and write a very charismatic ballot. He has run uncontested, and none of the other candidates are willing to step up against him. There has hardly been any debate between him and the other candidates. We cannot let him gain control of an office position so easily like this. There are many suspicious activities going on with his office running. He labeled out the scenario how mafia get 6 votes, and he chooses to obstain his vote, thereby gaining his chance of him getting into office. It is necessary to point out how the mafia would probably not all vote for the same person, but in the scenario where one person is dominating they clearly would. Shikyo has been obtaining votes from the most random of people. People who have not backed up their reasoning and people who have not voted at all. In one case, someone clearly stated that they were voting for one of the other candidates (although this was prior to Shikyo's running), but then voted for Shikyo without saying a word about it (and then latter ignored this fact when he finally did post). Shikyo has seemed like a good candidate until I raised possible suspicion about him. I clearly was not accusing him of anything, I just wanted to hear what he had to say. Instead he retorted almost angerily at me, implying that my posts meant nothing since I have only posted a few times. It is only natural for me to want to make sure we as a town are electing the best people into office. Someone who goes on the defensive when asked why the situation does not add up is not the person we want in office. However I do not possess any qualities that would make me good candidate other than I am not Shikyo. This would be my first mafia game on TL, and none of you have any information about me. But this is all irrelevant. You can cast your vote and put a suspicious person into office or put your vote to better use. Just because he posts a lot does not make him the best choice. You can vote for Shikyo and secure the fact that there will be suspicious happenings, or you can vote for me to ensure the town a victory. Even if you don't want to vote for me, pick someone else besides Shikyo. Angrily? You should see me angry, since I was completely calm. Tired? That's possible. It had nothing to do with your little amount of posts. It has something to do with you being against lynching inactives, which by itself is generally bad play and a bad train of thought, especially early on when there isn't much to go by. Even if it might not be the most desirable play, being against it isn't something any townie should do. If there are no good targets, inactives should be the first to go. Actually, there's nothing wrong with the amount of posts you made, and I thought what I meant was apparent from my post. I guess not, but I hope I managed to clarify this. Defensive? What... You can always find suspicion anywhere you wish, so I guess I was defensive(which I wasn't), and that's suspicious to you. But why have you, always, been so strongly against me? You keep talking about my flaws and suspicious behavior, but basically back that up with me being defensive without pinpointing it more accurately. Now what I'm curious about is if you have ever thought of this scenario: You're a mafia who thinks I am a good mayor candidate, so you try to stop people from voting me and cast suspicion on me, in addition with advocating incorrect play like avoiding lynching mafia. Even though I don't exactly believe this right now, it all seems to make sense to me if that indeed is the case. As you can see, It's not that difficult to make anyone seem suspicious, if you want them to. If you think of this as being defensive, maybe that's the kind of a person I am, then. I definitely would prefer people to post something as they vote and give some kind of a reasoning for their vote when they indeed do vote. However, there's really not much you can do about it besides openly asking them why they were voting for who they were. What a gigantic post... Hmmm... if a vigi announces their hit in the thread and then hits a green or blue, nothing happens, no one sends them any roles, and they'll essentially be a normal townie, and thus not important for mafia to kill. If vigi hits a red, then he'd become the confirmed townie. There's just the problem of mafia killing him the same night, right after he kills the red... So maybe this plan needs some work. Maybe if he just announced he was going to hit someone that night, and if a red is hit, we should still know who that was. That way mafia doesn't know if he's worth lynching, and his vigi hit would still get through, assuming he sent it before announcing, and assuming that the earlier an action is sent, the more priority it gets. Also, vigis should be hitting only prime suspects, so I doubt that a medic would protect anyone they were supposed to hit. I'm still kind of unsure about this, though. About multiple people claiming to have saved A, we don't necessarily have to kill all those people. I'm sure we could use some behavioral analysis or even clue analysis to narrow it down, and maybe have DTs check each of them rather than just killing everyone. Now, with zeks joining the running for office as well, we finally have quite a few people running for office. I hope I'll be able to decide for someone to vote for today. | ||
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Shikyo
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Thank you BWdero, that seems reasonable. I'm also wondering when Foolishness is going to post the next time, he seems to have quieted down a little. | ||
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Shikyo
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I'm not sure of when exactly the voting is going to end, but I'm guessing it's quite soon, and so I've decided to compose a medic list to help medics protect valuable members for the town. If you have some feedback about the list, want to add or remove someone, or think someone on the list is suspicious and likely to be red, please let me know. Medic List: Shikyo JeeJee Jimtudor zeks crate teks vx70GTOJudgexv? In addition to merely being a help for the medics, the medic list actually indirectly protects everyone on it even if medics don't protect them, since mafia is unlikely to hit anyone on the list because of the risk of getting their hit blocked. Many of the mayor/sheriff candidates are on the list because, interestingly enough, they've been contibuting quite a bit. If one of them becomes the mayor/sheriff, he will naturally be taken off the list. It's likely that one of them is a mafia, but since we don't have strong enough evidence against anyone, and can't exactly remove all of them off the list, the most important ones will remain there. Of course, I'm taking suggestions, and highly suspicious people will be taken off the list if the need arises. I'd also like to point out that The_Master has been quite inactive as well. His first post was basically a "I will post for the sake of posting" post that added absolutely nothing and was most likely highly ignored. However, that seems slightly more sincere to me, and hence I'm not that suspicious him. It still is something to note, though. After that, he has only posted once, about changing his vote along with the bandwagon. What's interesting is how he thanked JeeJee about the role post, I wonder what I should think about that. Is he someone who would have benefitted of it, or a mafia acting like he was? Before pointing fingers at too many people, I'm waiting eagerly for the day 2 clues. I'm sure the clue analysis will be far more fruitful with the ability to compare them to the day 1 clues. I haven't bothered analysing these day 1 clues at all, but I'm planning on analysing day 2 clues along with day 1 clues, and hopefully am able to figure something out. | ||
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On May 20 2009 09:52 iLoveKTF wrote: I disagree on putting JimTudor on the medic list. He is under suspicion atm. I only agree on JeeJee, zeks, crate and teks. I didn't feel like there was too much against him. Just basically people being suspicious of the voting patterns and him not having posted much recently, which I don't feel is all that strong. Still, I feel that he's been contributing more than much of the town has. If he becomes more suspicious, however, I am going to change the list appropriately if necessary. I thought that more names would be better than less names for now, since the more people the list protects, generally the better. Especially since vigi hits can't be used during the first night, so even if someone on the list is a mafia, the damage isn't really all that significant. You don't agree with me being on the list? Ah, that breaks my heart. | ||
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On May 20 2009 10:51 iLoveKTF wrote: nah. Youve clearly won a seat already... :p JeeJee hasn't? He seems to be ahead of me in votes right now. | ||
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On May 20 2009 11:21 Foolishness wrote: Shikyo, is you putting yourself on the medic list implying that you are medic? Where did you get that from? It's a list of who to protect. Time to sleep, I guess. | ||
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Shikyo
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Seems like everyone is agreeing with teks, zeks and crate being on the medic list. vx70GTOJudgexv should probably be on the list as well, the reason he had a ? was because he hadn't been that active recently. I'm kind of second-guessing Jimtudor, though. He seems to not have contributed anything much for the town recently, so I hope he'll do so soon. I'm not too convinced that he's mafia, though, although it definitely is possible. Since a list of only 4-5 people would probably be too small, I'm also considering putting some people on the list like iLoveKTF, since he seems to know what he's talking about although he hasn't been the most active. It seems like the list is going to be quite small, since the next possible people on the list would be someone like EsbenPM, who have been relatively active but still nothing too spectacular. I wouldn't want the list to be as short as it is, but enough people really haven't been active enough, so I guess we'll compose the list mostly using these names, pretty much. I think it's actually a good thing that I was elected the mayor over Sheriff. Mayor role seems to benefit mafia more than the sheriff, and I can at least be sure about about our mayor, being that I'm the mayor myself. The sheriff position would also be a lot more difficult to misuse for the mafia, since any suspicious incarcerations would be leered at and would be far easier to catch than mayor's votes. It's nice that the town has been slightly more active recently. I have a feeling that most of the mafia is still hiding under the pile of the inactives, so everyone really should be more active. I guess that's that for now. Thank you for electing me as your mayor! Now I guess we'll just have to finish the medic list and plan some things out and whatnot while waiting for the day 2 clues. | ||
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Shikyo
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On May 20 2009 19:44 teks wrote: So just to get this straight: There are no clues in the night post, correct? If there were, they should be pointing at me since I am the mayor. But no, there are not, assuming the style hasn't drastically changed from before. . | ||
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Shikyo
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My current version of the Medic List: zeks teks Jimtudor vx70GTOJudgexv crate Besides those, it might be worth protecting some other people as well if you feel like the mafia is likely to hit them. We can protect a bit more freely tonight since vigilantes can't hit yet, use your own judgement. The people on that list are still a top priority. As far as I know, medic protections will always go through even if they're sent in at the last minute? So there's still some time to consider. Currently, I'm basically just waiting for day 2 to arrive, so I don't really have much more to add at this point. | ||
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Medic list: teks zeks Jimtudor iLoveKTF vx70GTOJudgexv crate 6 seems like a good number that's not too much or too little. JeeJee's last post about the medic list is important, I suggest every medic to read it through. However, too many mindgames aren't suggested, or else an extremely important townie might be left unprotected and die because of the medics attempting to be too smart. I think removing Jimtudor from the medic list would be too soon for the first night's list, especially since vigis can't hit yet. If he doesn't start posting more actively, though, we might have to make some changes for the medic list for the next night. | ||
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Shikyo
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Only 2 people were lynched, one of which was a blue. However, the blue who was lynched still basically only had a townie's powers, just reducing our security, so this is close to an ideal outcome for us. I'm still curious of what Jimtudor would have posted next, since he kind of hinted that he might have something interesting to say. Now, I'd like to say that Jimtudor is such an experienced player that roleclaiming bodyguard to either the Sheriff or the Mayor would not make any sense whatsoever. Roleclaiming bodyguard in general seems just pointless and stupid. People always suspect it, but I'm not sure if it has ever happened in any game thus far. I think it's more reasonable to assume that he was lynched without the knowledge of him being a bodyguard. I think there are a couple of things we should examine. The first one is obvious; What happened to the third hit? There are a few possible scenarios: a medic protection, a veteran hit, and a stacked hit against either of the people who were lynched. In the case the hits were stacked, it'd be far more likely that they would stack hits against Jimtudor than softer. This is simply because softer is far less likely to be protected, and one hit should suffice. If Jimtudor indeed got hits stacked against him, what would make the mafia so eager to kill him, being that he was already under suspicion by numerous people? One reason might that he could have found out something that he was going to post. Or maybe they thought that he'd be such an important player that he would be worth a couple of hits to take care of? What I think is more likely is that a medic blocked a hit, or that they hit a veteran. So in the best case scenario, we have a basically confirmed townie and the the medic, possibly even contacted each other by now. Or a vet just took a hit, but that would be a good thing as well. However, since Jimtudor was thought to be relatively suspicious, the mafia had no real reason to hit him yet, especially with stacked hits. This could mean that we're just against a stupid mafia, which would obviously be a good thing. | ||
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On May 22 2009 02:40 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: Should we be altering/reconstructing medic lists for tonight? We probably should, although I don't think we need to worry about it too much quite yet, there's still plenty of the day left. | ||
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