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On May 18 2009 11:29 Tricode wrote:
Mynock, i was curious, why not keep him alive? (For now he maybe the best choice but if we find a better choice to lynch then move onto them.)
We can just ignore him and if he is a dt we can try to use his r/c asap.
And if Mafia kill him, meh he is going to die anyway right?
Hmm, i know there is negative things about doing this, but i am just throwing it out there as just a thought.
Thought you were watching a redskins game with family or something. Or is that over?
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On May 18 2009 11:44 LucasWoJ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2009 11:29 Tricode wrote:
Mynock, i was curious, why not keep him alive? (For now he maybe the best choice but if we find a better choice to lynch then move onto them.)
We can just ignore him and if he is a dt we can try to use his r/c asap.
And if Mafia kill him, meh he is going to die anyway right?
Hmm, i know there is negative things about doing this, but i am just throwing it out there as just a thought. Thought you were watching a redskins game with family or something. Or is that over?
Was watching Redwings. Apparently it started at 3pm eastern standard time.
When it finished, my cousin kinda left at 7eastern standard time. Then I went to best buy for this special thing they were having.
Got me a free mini laptop moues and I won $50 bestbuy gift certificate in a raffle they had.
I been catching up on the posts and putting my thoughts. Though right now I'm still really geeked and surprised i won.
I was the first number called.
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Hey nemY, if you really wanted to prove that you're a DT, you'd place your vote on me. Let's hope that starts the bandwagon I'm expecting.
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Ace I dont understand your point: do you think Nemy is mafia? or the traitor?. If he is the traitor then theres 0 interest to lynch him. As I posted Nemy is clearly no blue.
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On May 18 2009 11:47 0cz3c wrote:
Hey nemY, if you really wanted to prove that you're a DT, you'd place your vote on me. Let's hope that starts the bandwagon I'm expecting.
I'll vote for you, after you get 10 votes for me ;p deal?
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On May 18 2009 11:37 Ace wrote:
FFS don't you motherfuckers ever learn? Stop thinking about "what if he's blue" and just fucking READ the thread.
This is like Folca part 2.
Dude when Folca roleclaimed, he did it with the backup accusation that he had rolechecked someone (you) and that they turned up red. We had to lynch Folca first, because it was the only way to verify that his claim was truthful while also revealing the accused's (your) alignment, i.e. it was the most efficient action.
Nemy hasn't made any rolecheck accusations, and has only claimed to be a dt. The only information we could ostensibly gain from lynching Nemy would be:
a) whether he was telling the truth or not
b) maybe some insight into the position of certain players, now that we have knowledge of Nemy's role and can see how they reacted to his claim.
I believe our situation is only surficially similar to Folca v. Ace from Mafia 3.
In addition, I don't doubt that the mafia will want to kill Nemy, because leaving a potential DT alive is quite simply dangerous to them. Why do we want to do their work for them? If Nemy stays alive and produces no useful information that we would expect from a detective, then can't we kill him anyway? If he lives to Night 2, will he not probably be rolechecked anyhow?
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oh, Ace is doing the "you guys suck so I'm not playing" thing again. cool.
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United States2186 Posts
On May 18 2009 09:10 Ace wrote:I'd tl:dr your post Ver, but I just masturbated and got a sudden burst of energy. I'll also only address the part of your post directly with my name in it, since if a post doesn't include my name I skip it. Show nested quote +
Ace is taking this too far. He had his rope. He had his opportunity to go appear innocent. And he hung himself on it. It is not in the town's interests to lynch Nemy. Because here's the thing, we don't want to lynch the traitor. The traitor has no ACTUAL power. The traitor's only power is influence and words. He can cause mass chaos. But if we know who the traitor is, he is POWERLESS. Nemy is not mafia unless he is a sacrifice. That means we have no reason to lynch him! Yet Ace is going all out trying to get this.
Look at this from a behavior standpoint: Mafia are the ones who are this aggressive. See RoL and Attackzerg trying to get Ace lyched/discredited in BC's first game. Now for a direct comparison: remember when Ace defended mikeymoo in Caller's game (Ace was innocent so was Mikeymoo)? He was voracious in defending mikeymoo, but he was not voracious in lynching BC even though BC was full of BS. Yes he wanted BC lynched but he didn't go crazy like he is now. Because that's a sure sign of mafia behavior: being overaggressive to get a lynch.
In case anyone wants to relate to the Folca/Ace scenario, that is a completely different thing. Because then Folca roleclaimed with a specific intent to prove something, i,e that Ace was mafia. Thus in that circumstance Ace's logic train is true and the correct choice of action (and he would've done it if he was townie I'm sure). Because if you lynch the accuser you know everything about the accused role. However, now here Nemy just plain roleclaimed. WHY ON EARTH WOULD WE LYNCH HIM? WE GET NO BENEFIT. NOTHING.
Under the present circumstances there is NO reason to lynch Nemy.
Ace you screwed up. This is not Savior sense. This is not to the benefit of the town.
And you people who agree with his logic (mikeymoo, bockit), you guys better think through exactly what he's recommending. Game 3 and now are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
Furthermore, the Ace voting train, you guys are all suspect. You people are clearly trying to push him into mayor over me. Not gonna happen. I'll dissect through suspects in a bit.
Sorry - but this is where you fucked up. I've said it plenty of times, I'm aggressive because it's how I feel like being. Whether I'm townie or Mafia I play with a free conscience because I honestly don't think anybody can read anything I do and you've just proven my point. You can also ask Mr.BabyHands - I've played an aggressive townie style before. It's not a Mafia trait at all. Now onto your analysis of nemy. You've failed to point out something significant: The difference between this game and the game with BC was that I pointed out that BC might be the Village Idiot hence we don't even care what happens to him. The real danger is lynching mikeymoo because we have no information about him based on what BC did. This scenario is different as there is no one being accused - this is just a role claim at a bad time. What also makes this different is that unlike when Empyrean claimed DT on Day 1, nemy lied. In Mafia 2 I had no reason to lynch Empyrean as soon as I got Mayor because empyrean only claimed to be a DT and didn't say anything about having a way to prove it. So we just let him be. nemy got caught in a lie. Badly. See the difference? If nemy was a DT that just played his hand wrong we could surely just say ok buddy, no office for you and keep things hush after that. He lied on got caught and that changes everything as an innocent doesn't have to lie to the town on information that would help us greatly. Hell, he STILL hasn't even given it to us and when asked he tried to be cool like me - but failed. Also if nemy is a traitor - of course we lynch him. Do we have a better suspect? I don't think so. If he's a traitor that means he isn't working for the town which means he should die. Simple, really. See how all these scenarios are different? Nothing anyone says can explain why nemy lied. Nothing. So he gets the lynch. As for my vote train - meh. Whats so suspect about it? People know a good candidate when they see one. As for me being buddy/buddy with Mynock - what's the problem? I've supported him in every game I've played and there's no secret about it. I don't even have any clue what his role could possibly be but I've said this so many times - there isn't any reliable way to find out anybody's role right now so I base my votes off of ABILITY. Since I believe Mynock is one of the best candidates I voted for him. go ahead and try to analyze that, you'll end up like Versatile and we see how her logic worked out. So once again I'll state your analysis has FAILED. Based on pure playing ability myself and Mynock should be in office over anyone else, with the exception of maybe BC. Showtime! and Caller do better outside of leadership roles. I'm interested in hearing your retort to this post.
Good.
This is what I wanted to see. You can rest assured that I'll update the mafia %'s accordingly.
I didn't make a lynch post like I did with Mandalor/Scaramanga two games ago. I made a provocative post.
I still think Showtime is the best candidate for office (besides caller/bc) but after seeing this I'm pretty happy with the chance of your innocence and I'd like to see you in office (over mynock).
As for Nemy:
I agree he lied. If you noticed I made sure to call him out asap. However, I still think it's such a boneheaded play to make if he's mafia unless he's offered up as a sacrifice.
I also think it's a bad idea to lynch even a confirmed traitor, much less an ambigious one. Remember, traitor counts towards the town's winning numbers and does not help us get any closer to killing the mafia. The only thing the traitor can do is vote with the mafia (IF he knows who the mafia are). I agree voting for Nemy for office is retarded. But at the same time I want the mafia to waste their kill forcing our decision (or letting him prove himself innocent/guilty by staying alive). Why should we waste our KP on this when we can make the mafia waste KP?
The only reason we should is if he's mafia. But I just cannot fathom a situation outside of offering him up as bait to prove someone innocent for him to be mafia. His posts are just so DUMB. Like he could've even called out mafia members as ppl who messaged him and they both could've fabricated pm's. But he didn't. I can't see him being mafia at all.
For Mayor voting:
Can someone point me to an updated list.
Remember I called out both Ace AND Mynock.
Several people have switched from Ace. Guys, feel free to switch back. I still want Showtime elected but I don't think there are enough votes.
However, Mynock's voters have mostly stayed there even though they are online. That is a pretty big indication of something fishy.
Bigger question@ Ace:
What do you think of MBH? He's smart enough to know that a simple vote and run is going to get him looked at. So what's his story?
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On May 18 2009 12:01 Ver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2009 09:10 Ace wrote:I'd tl:dr your post Ver, but I just masturbated and got a sudden burst of energy. I'll also only address the part of your post directly with my name in it, since if a post doesn't include my name I skip it.
Ace is taking this too far. He had his rope. He had his opportunity to go appear innocent. And he hung himself on it. It is not in the town's interests to lynch Nemy. Because here's the thing, we don't want to lynch the traitor. The traitor has no ACTUAL power. The traitor's only power is influence and words. He can cause mass chaos. But if we know who the traitor is, he is POWERLESS. Nemy is not mafia unless he is a sacrifice. That means we have no reason to lynch him! Yet Ace is going all out trying to get this.
Look at this from a behavior standpoint: Mafia are the ones who are this aggressive. See RoL and Attackzerg trying to get Ace lyched/discredited in BC's first game. Now for a direct comparison: remember when Ace defended mikeymoo in Caller's game (Ace was innocent so was Mikeymoo)? He was voracious in defending mikeymoo, but he was not voracious in lynching BC even though BC was full of BS. Yes he wanted BC lynched but he didn't go crazy like he is now. Because that's a sure sign of mafia behavior: being overaggressive to get a lynch.
In case anyone wants to relate to the Folca/Ace scenario, that is a completely different thing. Because then Folca roleclaimed with a specific intent to prove something, i,e that Ace was mafia. Thus in that circumstance Ace's logic train is true and the correct choice of action (and he would've done it if he was townie I'm sure). Because if you lynch the accuser you know everything about the accused role. However, now here Nemy just plain roleclaimed. WHY ON EARTH WOULD WE LYNCH HIM? WE GET NO BENEFIT. NOTHING.
Under the present circumstances there is NO reason to lynch Nemy.
Ace you screwed up. This is not Savior sense. This is not to the benefit of the town.
And you people who agree with his logic (mikeymoo, bockit), you guys better think through exactly what he's recommending. Game 3 and now are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
Furthermore, the Ace voting train, you guys are all suspect. You people are clearly trying to push him into mayor over me. Not gonna happen. I'll dissect through suspects in a bit.
Sorry - but this is where you fucked up. I've said it plenty of times, I'm aggressive because it's how I feel like being. Whether I'm townie or Mafia I play with a free conscience because I honestly don't think anybody can read anything I do and you've just proven my point. You can also ask Mr.BabyHands - I've played an aggressive townie style before. It's not a Mafia trait at all. Now onto your analysis of nemy. You've failed to point out something significant: The difference between this game and the game with BC was that I pointed out that BC might be the Village Idiot hence we don't even care what happens to him. The real danger is lynching mikeymoo because we have no information about him based on what BC did. This scenario is different as there is no one being accused - this is just a role claim at a bad time. What also makes this different is that unlike when Empyrean claimed DT on Day 1, nemy lied. In Mafia 2 I had no reason to lynch Empyrean as soon as I got Mayor because empyrean only claimed to be a DT and didn't say anything about having a way to prove it. So we just let him be. nemy got caught in a lie. Badly. See the difference? If nemy was a DT that just played his hand wrong we could surely just say ok buddy, no office for you and keep things hush after that. He lied on got caught and that changes everything as an innocent doesn't have to lie to the town on information that would help us greatly. Hell, he STILL hasn't even given it to us and when asked he tried to be cool like me - but failed. Also if nemy is a traitor - of course we lynch him. Do we have a better suspect? I don't think so. If he's a traitor that means he isn't working for the town which means he should die. Simple, really. See how all these scenarios are different? Nothing anyone says can explain why nemy lied. Nothing. So he gets the lynch. As for my vote train - meh. Whats so suspect about it? People know a good candidate when they see one. As for me being buddy/buddy with Mynock - what's the problem? I've supported him in every game I've played and there's no secret about it. I don't even have any clue what his role could possibly be but I've said this so many times - there isn't any reliable way to find out anybody's role right now so I base my votes off of ABILITY. Since I believe Mynock is one of the best candidates I voted for him. go ahead and try to analyze that, you'll end up like Versatile and we see how her logic worked out. So once again I'll state your analysis has FAILED. Based on pure playing ability myself and Mynock should be in office over anyone else, with the exception of maybe BC. Showtime! and Caller do better outside of leadership roles. I'm interested in hearing your retort to this post. Good. This is what I wanted to see. You can rest assured that I'll update the mafia %'s accordingly. I didn't make a lynch post like I did with Mandalor/Scaramanga two games ago. I made a provocative post. I still think Showtime is the best candidate for office (besides caller/bc) but after seeing this I'm pretty happy with the chance of your innocence and I'd like to see you in office (over mynock). As for Nemy: I agree he lied. If you noticed I made sure to call him out asap. However, I still think it's such a boneheaded play to make if he's mafia unless he's offered up as a sacrifice. I also think it's a bad idea to lynch even a confirmed traitor, much less an ambigious one. Remember, traitor counts towards the town's winning numbers and does not help us get any closer to killing the mafia. The only thing the traitor can do is vote with the mafia (IF he knows who the mafia are). I agree voting for Nemy for office is retarded. But at the same time I want the mafia to waste their kill forcing our decision (or letting him prove himself innocent/guilty by staying alive). Why should we waste our KP on this when we can make the mafia waste KP? The only reason we should is if he's mafia. But I just cannot fathom a situation outside of offering him up as bait to prove someone innocent for him to be mafia. His posts are just so DUMB. Like he could've even called out mafia members as ppl who messaged him and they both could've fabricated pm's. But he didn't. I can't see him being mafia at all. For Mayor voting: Can someone point me to an updated list. Remember I called out both Ace AND Mynock. Several people have switched from Ace. Guys, feel free to switch back. I still want Showtime elected but I don't think there are enough votes. However, Mynock's voters have mostly stayed there even though they are online. That is a pretty big indication of something fishy. Bigger question@ Ace: What do you think of MBH? He's smart enough to know that a simple vote and run is going to get him looked at. So what's his story?
If I was mafia and I got called out or w/e and wanted fellow mafia to verify the PMs I doubt they'd do it, simply on the basis that they don't want to EVER have a connection with me...
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On May 18 2009 11:40 Tricode wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2009 11:33 fusionsdf wrote:On May 18 2009 11:25 Mynock wrote:
Oh, forgot, why lynch nemY? I have said this a thousand times and will say it once more: confusion is BAD for the Town. nemY provided PLENTY of it. Look at the process of the elections. It was turned upside down with his help, and that's not a good thing. Also, he was lying. He might have innocent motives behind it, but he's just not helping his own cause nor Town. Even IF he is who he claims he is, he made some bad moves, and as a distraction, is best removed. If he turns out blue, that's too bad, but it's still better than lynch anybody on a hunch or random chances. why not protect him with medics, get him to do a role check and post it and then kill him after? That way if hes blue at least you get something out of it, and if hes mafia, he'll still be killed. It doesnt make a lot of sense to make him your first day lynch. If you lynch him first day and he turns out blue, I will be HIGHLY suspicious of you. I don't really think he should have protection. He fucked up bad. We shouldn't be wasting our resources on him imo. What if he turns to be the traitor? The whole point is, Nemy fucked up bad and there is a price to pay for that. Is his role that so important that we should give him a medic instead of someone else that could be more valuable? We only get 2 you know. In either case, Nemy looks like he will either get lynched or killed off by mafia. if he doesn't w/e he could still be traitor or we can use his R/Cs and C/Cs as fast as we can. (if he is DT, this is not a guarantee)
If he is DT, then mafia basically have to waste all their killing power to kill him....we dont neccessarily have to protect him I guess, but what about this?
-medics do whatever the fuck they want to. They might protect nemy, they might protect someone else whatever.
-we leave nemy alive. At least this way mafia is forced to kill him and use up a hit if hes innocent. If we were to lynch him first night and hes innocent, we basically just gave mafia extra KP since now they dont have to kill nemy.
-if he somehow stays alive, we get him to do a roleclaim on someone and give us the results.
-we kill him some point after that.
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Sydney2287 Posts
I've got to go out so I guess I find out the vote results when I get back.
I'm going to leave my vote on Showtime! in case people decide they want to avoid the murkiness surrounding Ver/Ace/Mynock atm and wish to join me on the cleanest candidate around!
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Wait a second...to all people switching to Ace: If too many votes go to Ace, Ver doesn't get mayor. Just checking to make sure you are all aware of this, if this is what you want.
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On May 18 2009 12:30 Incognito wrote:
Wait a second...to all people switching to Ace: If too many votes go to Ace, Ver doesn't get mayor. Just checking to make sure you are all aware of this, if this is what you want.
I want Ver there, thats why I switched from Ace. Im quite concerned about the pardoner but my priority is Ver in the Office.
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Ace - 6
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0cz3c <-- from Ver
Ver <-- from Caller
Malongo <-- from Fishball
mikeymoo <-- from Mynock
MrBabyHands
HeavOnEarth <-- from Abstain
Scamp <-- from nemY
Bockit <-- from Mynock
Mynock < -- from Ver
Ver <-- from Showtime!
Tricode <-- from Mynock
Abstain - 5
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nemY
HeavOnEarth
Fishball <-- from Scaramanga
fusionsdf
HeavOnEarth <-- from nemY
Showtime!
infinity21
Incognito <-- from Ver
nemY - 5
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fusionsdf <-- from Abstain
HeavOnEarth <-- from Abstain
RebirthOfLegend
MTF <-- from Showtime!
Plexa
Scamp
L
Ver - 8
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BloodyC0bbler
Caller
Scaramanga
Mynock
0cz3c
dreamflower
RebirthOfLeGenD
Vivi57
iNfuNdiBuLuM
Incognito <-- from Showtime
Malongo <-- from Ace
LucasWoJ <-- from Mynock
BloodyC0bbler - 0
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Tricode
Showtime! - 1
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Bockit
MTF
Incognito
Ver <-- from Ace
Bockit <-- from Ace
Mynock - 4
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LucasWoJ
mikeymoo
Ace
Amber[LighT]
Tricode <-- from BloodyC0bbler
Bockit <-- from Showtime!
0cz3c <-- from Ace
mikeymoo <-- from Ace
Fishball - 0
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Malongo
Caller - 0
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Ver
Scaramanga - 0
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Fishball
Total - 29
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Ver - 8
Ace - 6
nemY - 5
Mynock - 4
Showtime! - 1
Abstain - 5
Non-voters - 1
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Camlito
Voting will close in 30 minutes. Again, please send me your actions if you are a competitive candidate.
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Apparently we have 3 people who would vote for Showtime. If others did. Anyone else?
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Holy crap...Nemy is definitely to close for comfort with votes.
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On May 18 2009 13:04 Incognito wrote:
Apparently we have 3 people who would vote for Showtime. If others did. Anyone else?
Names and state the reasons clearly.
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oh sweet, just finished voting.
Well I pretty confused. On the bright side I get to figure out if I am an ass or a genius about NemY
I wish I remembered him from other games. I just remember thinking he flipped red once.
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On May 18 2009 13:07 Tricode wrote:
Holy crap...Nemy is definitely to close for comfort with votes.
not anymore.
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EPT
