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Qatol
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On April 20 2009 13:21 Caller wrote: Guys, I'm a Detective and I cluechecked this clue: Does this clue point to Ace? Answer: Yes. I vote for Ace. Psh cluechecks don't work like that any more! (The change will be posted when BC comes back.) Therefore Caller is lying! I vote for Caller | ||
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From: Caller Subject: Re: hmm Date: 4/20/09 13:39 shit they're on to me brb ded ----------------------------------------- Original Message: ah so I'm the contract killer? Cool! (I'm black in your post) FakeSteve[TPR] | ||
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![[image loading]](http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?image=qatol.jpg) He really means Qatol for mayor! Ok official campaign post time! First, my credentials: 1. This is my 5th real mafia game (I don't count caller's aborted game, I DO count Chuiu's 1 day game because I played a significant role in it) so one would hope that I'm decently experienced. 2. My biggest strength is my planning abilities and my knowledge of the rules. This has affected more games than you might think. Games I have majorly influenced: a) BC's first game. Working behind the scenes as the only DT, I basically kept the town going. I almost pulled the town into a win from a really bad situation I might add. b) Chuiu's 1 day game. I worked with Dyno and LTT to coordinate the "mafia claiming towny" plan. This WAS a plan by design and it worked like a charm. c) Last game. I was very active behind the scenes working with BC, Ver, and MBH. You will notice that I was #1 on the incarceration list that BC sent in. This is because I was basically the "power behind the throne". I was hoping to draw a medic, but alas. 3. I am super active. I know this is probably a given for anyone who tries to be a candidate, but we learned how obnoxious it is to have a leader who is not around so much with Dyno. Early plans: 1. Detectives: day 1 you should be checking if things are clues. Do NOT try to connect a clue to a person on day 1. Day 1 clues are much harder than they are on any other day, so you will likely be wasting your check if you try to connect a suspected clue to a person. 2. Paramedics: I will be putting together a list of people that are probably nice protection targets each day. This is a similar idea to Ace's Zodiac Brave list, except I'm thinking I will make the list smaller. Please stick to protecting people on these lists unless you KNOW you are protecting a blue/confirmed innocent. The point of such a list is that if the mafia avoid it, the town gets to keep a very dangerous player. 3. Vigilantes: You don't have a hit until night 2, right now just try to blend in. We will deal with how to use you once we get some targets. 4. Veterans/Townies: Be active! Activity has been a serious problem in previous games, especially around day 4 or 5. That is when you are needed the most! Even if you don't think you are any good at clue analysis, you might give us a good idea every now and then. Try to contribute in any way that you can. 5. Bodyguards: When you get your role, I don't want to know about it! Don't tell me! Hit-related items: 1. As I said earlier, just because someone claims they took a hit and someone else claims to be a medic does not mean they can be confirmed. However, you should still say you took a hit regardless (this includes veterans as well). The mafia has this information, and it might help us put the pieces together at a later date. Do not say if you are a vet or were medic protected however. 2. Medics, once you have made a save, tell that person who you are! Even if the mafia try to pretend to be a medic, they are trading one of them for a blue role that is only sometimes effective. This is not a cost effective trade for the mafia. Where my lynch will go: I'm hoping someone will give themselves away to a reasonable degree before my lynch. If not, I will be targeting an inactive. Other things to note: 1. I started running before roles were sent out. I think people can see that I want to help the town and am interested in staying around a while (which likely wouldn't happen unless I have protection). 2. Caller is from chicago. Chicago mayors have a history of corruption. Don't vote for Caller! ![[image loading]](http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/8660/qatol.jpg) | ||
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On April 22 2009 08:56 Malongo wrote: Boring. The idea of the role is that people finds you not that they contact you via mail. Also this could be mafia looking for blues. Or a vigi looking for mafia. Are you aware that mods can ip check your account dont you? for the fairness of the game ill ask an unrelated mod to do this because there are mods playing this time. This. Everybody ignore him. At best, he is trying to trick you. At worst, he is actively cheating. | ||
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On April 22 2009 10:47 BWdero wrote: From the voting thread. Please don't. If you are going to vote for someone please do so because you believe that they are the best choice for the role. Not because it is the popular thing to do. Bandwagons harm the town in many ways, like giving mafia an easy way to hide and avoid giving justifications for their actions. So please, don't bandwagon, think for yourself. Very true. Please vote for me if you: 1. agree with my plans 2. think I'm likely to be innocent 3. want to keep me alive as a mayor Do not do it because everyone else is voting for me. That is flawed logic. For all you know the list of people voting for me are all mafia and you are following a mafia bandwagon. | ||
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On April 22 2009 12:37 Chuiu wrote: I think we should leave clue analysis till tomorrow when we might get a point of comparison. I somewhat agree with this sentiment. One thing we SHOULD do is figure out what the clues ARE. Or at least figure out guesses. We need to put together something for the DTs to check, and linking clues to players night 1 just isn't going to happen. Therefore we HAVE to use the other ability or just waste a night's worth of DT abilities. | ||
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On April 22 2009 14:22 Tricode wrote: Qatol, what do you plan to do about this contractor? You talked about the other special roles, but this role was neglected in your speech while running for mayor. This person can really screw with both sides, join us, or be our enemy. Pending who has this role they can, 1. Really confuse us by hitting townies and mafia so it will be hard to know who they are. 2. Join mafia and just kill people and team with them (could do this by telling mafia or not telling mafia) 3. Join us and well help (though should be security obviously, or else mafia kills the person. To add they might just not tell anyone who they are to keep themselves safe, thus they could accidentally be killed by mafia or townie lynching). So any thought out plan for this type of person? I think the others running for mayor should consider this factor as well. Tricode, Honestly, I don't see much we CAN do with the contract killer. 1. This doesn't actually matter. We don't know what the KP is anyways. He might get in the way of clue analysis, but we can't do a thing about it. 2. We can't help this either. If he finds the mafia and decides to help him, we can't stop him. He basically becomes an extra mafia that might help us in the future. We treat him as a suspect. He gives clues, so accuse him. 3. He would have to contact someone trusted. Nice boon for us, but also this cannot be controlled. Basically, we have to treat him as a mafia unless he proves willing to be otherwise. As for how to get him to join us, he has to approach one of us. The only way we can do anything else is get a lucky rolecheck. | ||
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The real answer is that they just can't use their power without making a contract. Yes they can be a chaotic liability. We can't do anything about that. I realize that I'm being pretty harsh towards the CK. I just don't see any way to ensure he won't go crazy on the town. If he wants to help the town, he needs to find a DT/medic or someone with a good enough position (no lynch guarantee) to give him a contract. Approaching a towny early helps him however. | ||
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On April 22 2009 15:09 Ace wrote: I'm a green townie, so the CK can approach me ^_^ Greens are actually very bad for the CK to approach. All they have to offer is their role. The CK MUST approach someone with something to offer | ||
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On April 22 2009 15:32 semioldguy wrote: I don't think anyone should be suggesting what to do with the Contract Killer or what that role's best courses of action could be until we can determine whether or not that the Contract Killer siding with the town is his role's best bet in riding to his own victory. If we are offering all these options and advice about the role and it turns out that he determines that he would be better off not siding with us, that would suck. I have some ideas about how to get the Contract Killer on the town's side, but I don't want to post them if his win condition doesn't go along with that because then I'd basically be telling him what not to do. Can we not talk about what we want to do with the Contract Killer, but instead what the Contract Killer would want to do with us and if it fits his victory condition? He isn't necessarily playing for the town to win, he is playing for himself to win. So let's make sure we can put those both on the same path before speculating about what to do about the Contract Killer role. Does this make sense? I think sog has the right idea here. We can't really know what to offer the killer without him telling us what he wants. If he can offer us something, we can make a deal. Either way, he has to approach one of us before anything can be done. We can probably be flexible since anything he has to give us (either kills or rolecheck info) is useful. | ||
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On April 22 2009 15:59 Malongo wrote: Please BC answer this: upon rolecheck on a mafia mayor the answer is? Mayor. It is in green bold letters at the top of the role listing | ||
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Other matters to discuss: Barring a HUGE shift in voting at the last second, I will be mayor. As I promised in my earlier post, I will be lynching an inactive that I think shouldn't be inactive. I AM trying to avoid someone who claims they are busy with exams. I kept off people who had even made 1 moderately long post. Here is the list of inactives: 8.JeeJee 11. RebirthOfLeGend 13. Mandalor 15. nemY 19. Hyperbola 25. Camlito 26. Mynock 28. Versatile 29. 3 Lions 31. fusionsdf 32. truthbringer 35. Quickstriker 36. Rage 37. Motbob 39. Blue_Arrow 40. Inertinept 41. 0cz3c 43. Amber[light] 45. Aznvaliance 46. Laxercannon 48. ILoveKtf 49. T_co 50. scamp 51. goodwill 52. CompX 53. coolcrimefighter 54. YDG 56. Vivi57 List of those people who did not post in day 1 thread, just voted for mayor: 31. fusionsdf 32. truthbringer 35. Quickstriker - trolled the voting thread 46. Laxercannon 49. T_co 50. scamp 51. goodwill 53. coolcrimefighter 54. YDG List of people with 1 one-liner post, but posted SOMETHING: 27. LordWeird - "Let the wild accusations begin!" and then a crazy accusation post 44. Zapling - "vote me for mayor wooo ill be a good one" 55. Mista - “Still taking my own sweet time ..” List of people I consider to be exceptions due to school: 7.Fishball - “I would not have access to TL from Thursday to Sunday (Back on Sunday).” 10. Ver - "Due to an intense finals period I won't be on until a brief bit friday, and then I will probably go do research and will be tied up until mon/tues." 24. Mikeymoo - "mikeymoo and I are going to be inactive for about 24 hours due to an upcoming final. Sorry" (monoxide posted this) 47. Monoxide - “mikeymoo and I are going to be inactive for about 24 hours due to an upcoming final. Sorry” Names that stand out to me from the list: 25. Camlito - he hasn't talked at all. surprising for a veteran player 26. Mynock - he is usually a pretty logical guy who is active 28. Versatile - VERY active during the election in Ace's Mafia World. Logical posts last game. Was pretty active. 36. Rage - come on man. You're TL staff. Gotta be held to a higher standard activity-wise. If anyone has a better idea of who I should be targeting, please post it in the thread or PM me. Remember, the theory is that we should be targeting people who are uncharacteristically silent. | ||
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On April 23 2009 09:30 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I don't know where you're going with this. Unless you mean people avoiding voting for Qatol? Also, I PMed this to lucaswoj and then realized it probably should have just been a post: "showtime! is a tank that's all i know of, haven't checked thoroughly also Under Siege is a movie and a video game (or two maybe) I kinda don't think this is a clue though it isn't as awkwardly worded as some of the other phrases and BC hasn't used unit icons as clues before def. wouldn't on day 1 unless it was with someone with no profile, hard name, no pic, no quote, no nothing, so if it is a clue i dont think it links to a unit icon." Actually he told me he used a unit icon 1 time as a clue last game. However it was for a player who doesn't post much, so there was 0 chance their icon would change. | ||
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Do you WANT me to lynch you or something? Why the heck would you make a post like that? | ||
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On April 23 2009 11:21 inertinept wrote: I vote for 0cz3c Notice that both were players I called out from that list. Inertinept still hasn't posted in the thread | ||
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On April 23 2009 12:47 Malongo wrote: I know this is a little early but i cant pass this. Im builiding a case against Quickstriker. It is never too early to start discussing suspects. Dialogue and activity are important to keeping the game going. I encourage you to talk any and all of the people who have come forward. The three that stand out to me currently are coolcrimefighter, Quickstriker, and inertinept. 0cz3c has potential as well. Keep the dialogue going! | ||
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Honestly, I don't feel too good about our leads at the moment. That being said, I think he is the strongest of them. 1. He is obviously on TL and is probably reading the thread since he voted RIGHT after I put up that post mentioning his inactivity. 1a. He has also posted in other places on this site since the game started. In this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=91853¤tpage=19 he posts. This is ~8 hours after roles have been sent out. 2. His vote is completely random. This looks like desperation to me. He doesn't want us analyzing him. He likely has something to hide. 3. Even after being accused, he isn't talking in the thraed. I think is because the last time he did that, he just dug himself into even deeper trouble (see chuiu's 1-day long mafia game). I have chosen NOT to lynch quickstriker not because I don't think he is a legitimate candidate, but because I think he is more likely to be a townie than inertinept. His arguments, while totally gross, do indicate that he can be rather impulsive at times. I don't want to make a mistake similar to the condemnation of Scaramanga by Ver and myself from last game. We probably jumped the gun a little on that a little and I remember thinking at the time that it didn't completely add up. This isn't to say that he isn't mafia. I think the decision to lynch him bears further analysis/discussion. Another candidate I thought about was coolcrimefighter. I have chosen not to lynch him because I honestly haven't been able to figure him out. I urge the town to watch him carefully as well. | ||
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Ace - VERY strong player. Has seriously influenced basically every game he has played. Ver - Probably the best behavioral analyst the town has. semioldguy - I was quite impressed with the way he managed the town last game. Strong player. camlito - One of the better players in the town. showtime! - He is active and smart. Very dangerous for the mafia to leave alive. LTT - I have worked with him closely in several games. He was my biggest help for setting up the mass hatter bombings. Medics, please do not protect anyone other than those people unless you are SURE you are protecting a townie who is DEFINITELY going to take a hit in your mind. In other words, protect people on that list. The reasoning behind this list is pretty simple. The mafia can choose to hit players not on this list. That is fine. If they do, the town keeps their strongest players alive. If the mafia wants to kill our strongest players, they will have to worry about medics protecting them and will likely stack hits or risk a medic protection. | ||
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If you take a hit: Report it in the thread. It doesn't matter if you were saved by a medic or are a veteran. Do NOT say which event happened. The mafia do not know this. Just inform the thread that you took a hit. If you are a medic and you make a save: During night 1, the contract killer and vigilantes cannot be active. Therefore, the person you saved MUST be innocent. PM them. You cannot be confirmed to the town as a whole, but you can trust that player and work with them for the rest of the game. | ||
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On April 24 2009 04:43 semioldguy wrote: I think a few more people should be added to that list if you ask me. Who do you recommend? This is obviously a balancing act between nabbing all the best players and spreading out the medics. I doubt BC has more than 3 medics this game because it is smaller than last game and there are veterans. | ||
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On April 24 2009 05:44 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I have a few points: 1. If someone waits to claim they were medic protected in the thread until the medic claims to them through PM it lowers the ability for mafia to make some sort of fake claim, although a fake claim might be kind of stupid it could out a medic if handled incorrectly or cause more damage perhaps. 2. A veteran calling out they lost a life has at least one disadvantage. A mafia hitting someone and having them not die might think they are medic protected and just move on and leave them alone (mafia moved on from me last game after trying once and seeing i was medic protected). If a vet role calls after a hit, medics still have little reason to trust that and switch their protection so that vet would lose potential deterrence. Maybe there's some advantage(s) that outweigh(s) that but I don't know that we should be giving clues to mafia on whether they are dealing with medics or vets now that vets are back in the equation (they weren't in the last game). Do NOT say which event happened. The mafia do not know this. Just inform the thread that you took a hit. Nobody should be claiming they were medic protected. Nobody should claim they are a veteran who took a hit. All they are doing is informing the thread that they survived a hit. The mafia already knows this happened (because they sent the hit in the first place). The town does not. | ||
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One suspicious strategy Blues should be worried about is the GF roleplaying detective and then roleclaiming to townies. It would be nearly impossible to thwart this strategy if he did it. However one way to thwart it would be to have everyone roleclaim to Qatol, then having Qatol serve as a hub for all information, sharing his information in pieces only with confirmed Blues (confirmed via detective). Not a good idea. I haven't been confirmed as town-aligned. Blues should NOT be mass-claiming to me (or anyone else for that matter). In fact, they shouldn't be roleclaiming to ANYONE if they can help it. The exception to this being medics who make a save night 1. 1) Kind of tilts toward mafia inactivity. To make sure this strategy has proper payoff, we need to create an active list and threaten lynch of people on the list if several are mafiakilled. E.g. list of 10 actives, then if more than 5 are killed, remaining 5 should be lynched. That would force mafia to target inactives, or if they continued targeting actives after the town makes that threat, then that is sure sign that mafia lurk in actives. The problem with this is what if the mafia deliberately hit a list where they know they have no players? We waste a ton of lynches/vigi hits on our active players....... Also another idea: whenever we send PMs to one another concerning mafia, we both send a copy of the PM to Qatol. This will allow him to gradually build up a network of confirmed blues/townies with which to begin analysis. Again, there is no reason to think I can be trusted. Having a central hub for all information is really risky when that player is not confirmed. Instead I think people should be working closely trying to establish trust with each other. Summaries can be passed from circle to circle that way, but the material passed should mostly be suspects, not suspected innocents (but talk to people directly about your suspected innocents!). We can no longer rely on mafia remaining inactive. It's way too easy for the godfather or even regular mafia to be active and muss things up, so we should try to use a bunch of truth-telling mechanisms to ensure core discussion safety. This is definitely true. Everyone you talk to should be viewed with suspcion. You must convince yourself that they are probably innocent. Even if you do that, do NOT share your role with them. We should come up with a list of players which match clues from Day 1, 3, 5, etc and from Day 2, 4, 6 etc (since mafioso alternate days) How exactly do you know this? I know for a fact that last time BC ran a game, he gave clues to the same person like 3 days in a row because they pissed him off. | ||
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Anyways, it seems that the mafia were legitimate targets last night some how........ Medics: Do NOT PM anyone if you made a save. That person is no longer confirmed as innocent. | ||
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On April 26 2009 02:33 Tricode wrote: So does that mean those who are hit shouldn't call out either? No you should still call out. The only difference is that the people who were hit cannot be assumed innocent | ||
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On April 26 2009 08:52 semioldguy wrote: I got a couple PM's from Pyrrhuloxia during Day One, but nothing that made me think he was a detective or that he was talking to or had revealed anything to others. Not much content in the PM's. He seemed suspicious of 3clipse and had me check his post edit in the voting thread, but it wasn't anything significant. Based off of his activity he was likely contacting others, but he didn't give me any hints as to who they could be. People who were talking to any of the now dead players should come forward and say what they were talking about with them. This will help as we will know what these players were thinking but afraid to post in the thread. Now that we know they are innocent we can look at their opinions in that light. In the same respect anyone who was talking with Bockit should also come forward and let us know what his opinions in private were, because knowing he is mafia changes the way we see those opinions and hiding that information would be bad for the town. I will admit I was talking to both Bockit and pyrrhuluxia. my conversation with Bockit was short, but do you REALLY want me to post my conversations with pyrr - I have 21 PMs from him..... (my inbox looked like the thread for a while - he calls it "verbal diarrhea)? Pyrr accused: showtime! malongo dreamflower 0cz3c 3 lions Quickstriker coolcrimefighter malongo again inertinept 0cz3c again (and yes, it is likely I'm missing a few) Bockit: + Show Spoiler + Haha yeah, day 1 clues are the worst things haha. I still laugh at the pika chu thing from last game. And I agree, I'm definitely lower profile than those players. I've got to go to my after-graduation drinks thing for my uni class (I still have to wait another year ) So I have to bail, but yeah, we need to keep the town active so we can try to trip up some mafia. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Yeah also shortly after I sent that JeeJee started posting. He definitely isn't worth lynching. But he should be watched. Right now, I think coolcrimefighter is our best bet. Only major thing I think is important right now in the thread is my medic post. (Do you agree with it? I'm afraid of making it much longer because that would just create a target list like last game.) Can't do anything about inertinept. At least we TRIED to make a decent decision. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Suspicious? Yes. Worth lynching him over? In my experience with mafia so far, no. Same as Rage. I just woke up and am responding to pms before I read the thread, so I don't know if anything has been worked on but the town really needs to stay active. Any plans we develop aren't going to happen until people are able to judge others as blue/green/red so until the day clues we should promote activity in the thread. Sucks about inertinept btw I wish people would play more intelligently. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: What do you think about JeeJee? Like Rage he isn't posting in the mafia thread. However, they are both posting in the Dota thread....... + Show Spoiler + I don't know if I'd call it insight into the situation, it just really comes across as the usual 'newish member' trying to fit in with one of the 'cool' mods that seems to happen all the time here Hmm, a stronger target? I'm not sure I won't lie I haven't got any huge suspects yet I could be wrong about quickstriker, my gut says he's not mafia but if you were to pick him I can't imagine anyone complaining (lack of anyone else to pick at this stage really). Rage is another suspicion of mine. He's been in the staff IRC channel since the thread has come up and I've been aware of it. Normally it's a pretty daunting task to read the first day or so of the thread (I know last game I put this off for half a day, made it worse but w/e) but this thread is only 13~ pages or so, with 5-6 pages of signup stuff that you can pretty much ignore. But that doesn't mean he's mafia and Rage tends not to post so much iirc from other games, he could be a hiding blue and it would suck to hit a blue. Looking back that's not really much help for picking a target , I'll keep in touch though with any thoughts. Thanks for the confidence vote It is reciprocated. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Look, I think you are a pretty good player and you seem to have some insight into the situation that I don't have. Quickstriker's defense seems a lot like Tricode's from last game to me. That being said, I would like to hear who you think is a stronger target for my lynch. | ||
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On April 26 2009 09:56 Qatol wrote: Bockit: + Show Spoiler + -------------------------------------------Bockit Haha yeah, day 1 clues are the worst things haha. I still laugh at the pika chu thing from last game. And I agree, I'm definitely lower profile than those players. I've got to go to my after-graduation drinks thing for my uni class (I still have to wait another year ) So I have to bail, but yeah, we need to keep the town active so we can try to trip up some mafia. -----------------------------------------Qatol Original Message: Yeah also shortly after I sent that JeeJee started posting. He definitely isn't worth lynching. But he should be watched. Right now, I think coolcrimefighter is our best bet. Only major thing I think is important right now in the thread is my medic post. (Do you agree with it? I'm afraid of making it much longer because that would just create a target list like last game.) Can't do anything about inertinept. At least we TRIED to make a decent decision. -----------------------------------------Bockit Original Message: Suspicious? Yes. Worth lynching him over? In my experience with mafia so far, no. Same as Rage. I just woke up and am responding to pms before I read the thread, so I don't know if anything has been worked on but the town really needs to stay active. Any plans we develop aren't going to happen until people are able to judge others as blue/green/red so until the day clues we should promote activity in the thread. Sucks about inertinept btw I wish people would play more intelligently. -----------------------------------------Qatol Original Message: What do you think about JeeJee? Like Rage he isn't posting in the mafia thread. However, they are both posting in the Dota thread....... + Show Spoiler + ----------------------------------------------------------Bockit I don't know if I'd call it insight into the situation, it just really comes across as the usual 'newish member' trying to fit in with one of the 'cool' mods that seems to happen all the time here Hmm, a stronger target? I'm not sure I won't lie I haven't got any huge suspects yet I could be wrong about quickstriker, my gut says he's not mafia but if you were to pick him I can't imagine anyone complaining (lack of anyone else to pick at this stage really). Rage is another suspicion of mine. He's been in the staff IRC channel since the thread has come up and I've been aware of it. Normally it's a pretty daunting task to read the first day or so of the thread (I know last game I put this off for half a day, made it worse but w/e) but this thread is only 13~ pages or so, with 5-6 pages of signup stuff that you can pretty much ignore. But that doesn't mean he's mafia and Rage tends not to post so much iirc from other games, he could be a hiding blue and it would suck to hit a blue. Looking back that's not really much help for picking a target , I'll keep in touch though with any thoughts. Thanks for the confidence vote It is reciprocated. ----------------------------------------- Qatol Original Message: Look, I think you are a pretty good player and you seem to have some insight into the situation that I don't have. Quickstriker's defense seems a lot like Tricode's from last game to me. That being said, I would like to hear who you think is a stronger target for my lynch. There is confusion about who said what. I have labeled the speaker | ||
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Here is the list of inactives: 13. Mandalor 19. Hyperbola 25. Camlito 26. Mynock 28. Versatile 29. 3 Lions 32. truthbringer 36. Rage 37. Motbob 39. Blue_Arrow 43. Amber[light] 44. Zapling 45. Aznvaliance 46. Laxercannon 50. scamp 51. goodwill 52. CompX 53. coolcrimefighter 54. YDG 55. Mista People on the list who voted: 29. 3 Lions 32. truthbringer 46. Laxercannon 50. scamp 51. goodwill 53. coolcrimefighter 54. YDG List of people with 1 one-liner post, but posted SOMETHING: 13. Mandalor - "just posting to say I'm not inactive. I'll try to catch up later." 19. Hyperbola - "Hello my fellow townies. Just letting y'all know that I am active I've just been rather busy lately." 36. Rage - Tells me I am quick to make inactivity conclusions and theorizes about how the DTs got hit (2 posts total, both with very little content) 43. Amber[light] - explained that his finals start in a little over a week 44. Zapling - "vote me for mayor wooo ill be a good one" "we did last game -.-" (referring to a mayoral lynch of a mafioso) 50. scamp - Posted about his reasoning for voting, said he is too intimidated to post 51. goodwill - "cool, let's lynch quickstirker next" "I think our next lynch candidate should be one of the individuals in the detectives' circles, the chance of one family being able to hit 2 detectives together is one out of 3025." 53. coolcrimefighter - "well I've recently gotten addicted to altitude so thats why I've been inactive to make myself unshady here are some infoz about me I am a D protoss my name is coolcrimefighter I am not shady" "indeed" "I think you guys are reading into my name too much" 55. Mista - “Still taking my own sweet time ..” List of people I consider to be exceptions due to school: 7.Fishball - “I would not have access to TL from Thursday to Sunday (Back on Sunday).” 10. Ver - "Due to an intense finals period I won't be on until a brief bit friday, and then I will probably go do research and will be tied up until mon/tues." 24. Mikeymoo - "mikeymoo and I are going to be inactive for about 24 hours due to an upcoming final. Sorry" (monoxide posted this) 27. Mynock - "It's a bit difficult for me to keep up with it all ATM due to exam papers and lots of translation work to do (some other people mentioned, it's exams season for some of us now :o)" 47. Monoxide - “mikeymoo and I are going to be inactive for about 24 hours due to an upcoming final. Sorry” | ||
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Monoxide - he has said he has exams. Shouldn't they be over by now? He has also been linked to decently strong clues in each of the first 2 posts. Versatile - She hasn't posted AT ALL. Since she is Ace's friend, I would assume that she is about his age and is done with school? Not sure on that. Regardless, being this quiet is totally out of character for her. 3 lions - he voted in the day 2 lynch thread but has still made 0 posts in the mafia thread. Obviously he is reading the thread at least a little because he is voting for a decently common suspect. FakeSteve[TPR] - He was posting decently actively until he lost the election. He has gone completely quiet since then. My personal pick right now? Versatile. In both games she has played, she has not been red (veteran in AMW, miller hit by mafia last game). Her style has completely changed for this game. | ||
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JeeJee: He is also acting completely out of character. He got in on the confusion about the mafia hitting each other last night, but otherwise he has been really quiet. Usually he is pretty involved in clue analysis. Another negative point is that Bockit drew attention away from him. Has he been linked to clues at all? | ||
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On April 26 2009 22:36 mikeymoo wrote: Regarding Monoxide, I can let the town know this (I know him irl, but we don't live in the same city anymore). He was done finals a couple days ago, and had the whole of yesterday to post. I'm pretty sure he's reading the thread, as he keeps asking me over msn if I've read mafia or how the game is going etc etc. In previous discussions I've had with him, he tells me how OP mafia is, and how easy it would be to win with red alignment. His mind games are very strong, so although he's not posting, he's both a liability and an asset (depending on his alignment, obviously). If he checks TL, it's probably in the afternoon at his time, so in roughly 6 hours I'd imagine. I shot him a PM to tell him to get active and explain himself, essentially. I think I played one game with him and he never asked how the game was going or what not. He wasn't mafia that game. I don't think the evidence is insurmountable, but it's something to keep in mind. At this point in time, I'd lean towards behaviour analysis moreso than clue analysis. I'd like to call attention to this post and emphasize that the case against Monoxide is not only clue-related, but also STRONGLY behavioral-related. I'm willing to follow mikeymoo's lead on this one. He is a smart, well-known player who is risking his own reputation to call out a friend who is acting strangely. That is good enough for me when combined with the other evidence compiled. Another thing I'd like to mention is that right now we have more suspects than we can handle. Versatile, Monoxide, JeeJee, and Quickstriker are all strong suspects. This points to us using a double lynch on day 3 without even considering that we may have additional suspects by then. | ||
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On April 27 2009 06:06 Qatol wrote: Reading the voting thread, I am seeing that many are adamantly against double lynching day 3. Why? Please persuade me that it isn't a good idea. As for why I think it is a good idea, first of all, we get rolechecks tonight (assuming we have detectives left, we should have 1 or 2). second of all, I think we will have more players called out by day 3. Finally, we have lots of suspects I feel pretty good about right now. | ||
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On April 27 2009 07:11 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Unlike you, I don't feel great about any of our current suspects. But I will vote for double lynch in the hopes that greater confidence arises during the next day/night and we will have the lynch ready. Btw you haven't remarked on whether Pyrr ever said anything to you. Were you in contact before he died? I don't think you have to fear from admitting this, after all you have bg protection. On page 22, I mentioned that I have talked to him a LOT via PMs. On April 26 2009 09:56 Qatol wrote: I will admit I was talking to both Bockit and pyrrhuluxia. my conversation with Bockit was short, but do you REALLY want me to post my conversations with pyrr - I have 21 PMs from him..... (my inbox looked like the thread for a while - he calls it "verbal diarrhea)? Pyrr accused: showtime! malongo dreamflower 0cz3c 3 lions Quickstriker coolcrimefighter malongo again inertinept 0cz3c again (and yes, it is likely I'm missing a few) A basic summary was we were brainstorming on targets for clue analysis. | ||
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1. The clues against monoxide just aren't believable. 2. He is hiding his evidence 3. He is attacking everyone who has accused him. 4. In doing #3 he gets stuff wrong. Showtime voted for Versatile, and I hadn't voted at the time. Again, if anyone disagrees with my reasoning, make a case. Persuade me. Right now I think JeeJee's horrible defense is enough reason to lynch. | ||
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On April 27 2009 09:15 Malongo wrote: This is the worst bullshit ive read from you all game. Period. Dont Vote double lynch. I made a post 2 pages back explaining why we MUST SAVE THEM. Our "suspects" are not even remotely confirmed, and the double lynchs is one of the few things that the town has. Read my post, Please. One more note: Given the history in the previous mafia game and some pms we interchanged then im looking at you with crying eyes, because you agreed that game that the first bad move from the town was using a double lynch without confirmed targets. Im serious, Qatol you just started looking mafia to me. In the future, please PM the person first before calling them out like this. If the private response isn't acceptable, you have that much more ammo to accuse them with. | ||
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First of all, people are making far too big a deal of the double lynch post. Dreamflower pointed out what I had originally intended with it. I wanted to foster discussion. (Notice that is included in the post.) I haven't defended myself up to this point because I didn't see the point. I already knew I wasn't going to change the minds of anyone who was posting at that time. Anyways, having read the thread, I have noticed that most of our suspects are actually ASKING to get lynched. I have decided to switch my votes to Versatile because we learn more from her lynch than anyone else's. Specifically, it tells us to suspect Ace and myself if she flips green/blue. Lynching JeeJee only tells us to suspect me if he flips green/blue. Lynching Quickstriker puts an end to the information about his activities in the bathroom (seriously dude, too much information). It looks to me like we have the most to gain from lynching Versatile. | ||
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On April 28 2009 14:51 Qatol wrote: I have decided to switch my votes to Versatile because we learn more from her lynch than anyone else's. Specifically, it tells us to suspect Ace and myself if she flips green/blue. She turned blue. That sucks. Remember that the point of lynching her if she didn't turn red was to get information. I should be a suspect now as well as Ace. Anyways, to the more pressing items. The medic list: Ver - Probably the best behavioral analyst the town has. semioldguy - I was quite impressed with the way he managed the town last game. Strong player. camlito - One of the better players in the town. showtime! - He is active and smart. Very dangerous for the mafia to leave alive. LTT - I have worked with him closely in several games. He was my biggest help for setting up the mass hatter bombings. Caller - Strong player, has been a leader in several games. You should have noticed that everyone on my list from last night is still alive. That is because this method works. You should also notice that I switched out Ace for Caller. This is because Ace is a big suspect right now. Suspects shouldn't be protected for 2 reasons: 1. If that player is NOT mafia, the mafia will likely avoid hitting him in the hopes that the town will lynch/vigi hit that player. 2. A vigilante may want to hit that player. Detectives: you should be using a rolecheck tonight. Choose someone you think is likely to be guilty. Do NOT choose me (I show up as mayor). If you find a red with your check, try to find a mouth. If you find a non-red, they can still be the godfather. Please don't expose yourself to them. Again, if anyone has any problems with any of this, I am open to comments/concerns. Persuade me! | ||
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1. VERSATILE CALLED YOU OUT 2. SHE FLIPPED BLUE 3. SHE KNOWS YOU BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE IN THIS GAME 4. THEREFORE YOU ARE A SUSPECT How hard is that to understand? The election If you look at my early voters, you will notice that the early people to vote for me were: 1. People who have worked with me previously (Ver, LTT,Incognito) - They likely felt they could get a good read on me if mafia and that I would be a solid leader if town. 2. A first-come first-serve player (malongo) - Voted for reasons outside the game. 3. A random zombie vote (Heavonearth) - Fishy, but we get players who are like this every game. 4. Someone who voted for me based on my reputation (Truthbringer) - I have a solid reputation. He wanted a strong leader. When did I EVER blame getting Versatile lynched on you? Please show me the post. I presented JeeJee as someone who was far more inactive than usual. He showed up after that and basically hasn't stopped accusing me of being mafia ever since. How do mafia react to being accused? That's right, they generally are very aggressive about finding a different target. Why did I switch my votes? Because the town learns more from Versatile's words than from JeeJee's. Why would the mafia ever even THINK about hitting you now? That makes 0 sense. YOU ARE A SUSPECT. One would hope the mafia have learned their lesson from last game. Because the mafia would have to be stupid to hit you at this point, why should we put a medic on you? With that in mind, I think the vigilantes might want to take a look at the 2 suspects that versatile left behind: You and me. Let's see.... 1 lynch, we want to reduce mafia KP as fast as we can, and I can't be killed except by lynch. Yep, that looks to me like you should be vigi-killed and I should be lynched. | ||
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On May 02 2009 18:49 Vivi57 wrote: Meh, I've been so lazy about this game. when I get the chance, I'm going to do some clue analysis and try to build on what we have. It's just so hard to get myself to do this knowing that last game, we didn't get a single mafia through clue analysis. Did everyone miss this? The strongest link to Qatol isn't a clue towards him. Is the lynch based off vengence or just not caring? Is there actually anything to go on for this lynch? As far as I can tell, the lynch on me is based off of my contributions towards killing: 1. A townie who was hiding 2. A veteran who seemed to have a good read on one of the strongest players in the game 3. A player who was screaming to have me lynched and ignoring all explanations for why he might be wrong. The other thing that people didn't like was me calling out JeeJee for acting out of character. He latched onto the clue you mentioned and has been accusing me with it. Do you even have a case against me without that clue JeeJee? Personally, I think we should be lynching QuickStriker. On May 02 2009 12:20 QuickStriker wrote: I somehow finally realized this mafia game isn't based on who exactly killed this and that person but basically a game where the townies have to try to figure out the codes and hints laid out from the OP/host of the game and unlock them to know the true meanings and words behind what's written to go further to capture the enemies... As far as I can tell, he's saying that BC is organizing his day posts and we should look at clue analysis. Then he goes off talking about his nephew. In other words, its a lot of words which barely contribute to the thread at all. Isn't that generally a mafia tactic? Appearing active by posting but not really contributing? I just don't understand why people aren't making a bigger deal of this........... Since people will inevitably question why I have been gone since before the day post, I got laid off yesterday and mafia was not a priority. | ||
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Inactive (but voted) 13. Mandalor 19. Hyperbola 25. Camlito 29. 3 Lions 37. Motbob 52. CompX 53. coolcrimefighter completely inactive , no excuses / haven’t voted or anything. 54. YDG 45. Aznvaliance 39. Blue_Arrow List of people with 1 one-liner post, but posted SOMETHING: 10. Ver - He endorsed me early and mentioned he wouldn't be around much until early this week. Has remained inactive despite this. 13. Mandalor - "just posting to say I'm not inactive. I'll try to catch up later." 19. Hyperbola - "Hello my fellow townies. Just letting y'all know that I am active I've just been rather busy lately." 47. Monoxide - “mikeymoo and I are going to be inactive for about 24 hours due to an upcoming final. Sorry” Has mentioned that he has further exams and has defended himself. No constructive posts. 50. scamp - Posted about his reasoning for voting, said he is too intimidated to post 51. goodwill - "cool, let's lynch quickstriker next" "I think our next lynch candidate should be one of the individuals in the detectives' circles, the chance of one family being able to hit 2 detectives together is one out of 3025." 53. coolcrimefighter - "well I've recently gotten addicted to altitude so thats why I've been inactive to make myself unshady here are some infoz about me I am a D protoss my name is coolcrimefighter I am not shady" "indeed" "I think you guys are reading into my name too much" 55. Mista - “Still taking my own sweet time ..” “Phew i have alot to catch up on" | ||
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As it has been mentioned, I HAVE been active behind the scenes. The current lynch people have all been talked about at least a little bit, but I feel it is more productive to introduce the people that I find pretty suspicious that have not been discussed much. Chuiu: Early in the game he had a small discussion about clues. He basically said we shouldn't worry about them until we have more batches. He gave a little input about things he thinks might be clues. He discussed the possibility that there might be 2 mafia families right after Bockit died. He accused JeeJee based off the Bockit PMs I posted. He tried to find a link to Bockit as a basis to clue analysis. Since that point he has posted basically nothing! Basically, Chuiu has totally vanished once people started making serious accusations. He pointed to JeeJee and then let the town start accusing each other without contributing at all. Camlito: I understand he wants to lay low. At the same time, other than voting, he has been SILENT. He knows the town has been floundering around looking for decent targets and yet he hasn't been trying to help at all? This seems odd to me. I expected him to use a mouth by the point. However, I haven't seen much resembling that. SemiOldGuy: I expected him to be far more active this game, both in the open and behind the scenes. Has he even been talking to anyone? Nobody I'm talking to has really heard much from him at all. Every day he pops up, says a few lines about the current plan and then totally disappears again. He isn't really involving himself in dialogues at least in the thread. He talked a lot about the CK early on, which makes me wonder if he is himself a CK. Finally, he starts talking about how a majority of abstainers causes a no-lynch. (I missed this when it was originally posted or I would have called it out sooner.) This is completely false! There is nothing in the rules about that. It looks to me like he was hoping to scare a mafia family out of abstaining in order to pick off a few/find a few for contracts. Other than that, he has done very little to point out new targets for the town. Completely out of character for him. Zapling: His only activity at all has been complaining and one strange clue connection attempt. Hasn't even TRIED to help the town. On April 28 2009 17:34 ZaplinG wrote: I vote ace to be lynched. On May 01 2009 14:34 ZaplinG wrote: This game is running in turtle time :X On May 03 2009 00:00 ZaplinG wrote: Thats a pretty sweet incomprehensible phrase you got there next to your name, Mynock... Mynock: He has been discussed earlier as being very quiet. That has changed a little recently. However, he is still not posting like I have expected. In previous games, he made long analytical posts. Everything was thought out. This time he keeps saying he has no time and is making non-committal posts. No strong accusations at all. Here is an example:+ Show Spoiler + On April 26 2009 23:17 Mynock wrote: Those are some good points, and cast quite a shadow over Monoxide. But obviously we first have to hear his version of the story. Suddenly he has started accusing myself and vivi57. This is completely against his character so far this game. Finally, his vote this cycle: On May 02 2009 22:19 Mynock wrote: I vote for Qatol. I don't even care if he's Mafia. He deserves this. What? Explain please. You will notice that my emphasis is on behavioral analysis. This is because my Clue analysis has been pathetic with respect to BC's clues in previous games (I couldn't get his clues right even after the game with the mafia list sitting in front of me). They are HARD. Please keep this in mind when you do clue analysis. Something like clumsiness = uff da is unlikely to be true because BC would never make a clue that simple. | ||
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I vote to lynch RebirthOfLegend x3 Qatol's night 3 medic list! Camlito Incognito vivi57 iLoveKTF BWdero 3 lions Qatol's night 4 medic list! - Caller - Rol. - Milkymoo. - Qatol. Vigis: Hit active players! Malongo and RebirthOfLegend are good targets! Detectives: If we managed to miss any of you and you are still alive... Roleclaim! Work with us all! Townies and veterans: your opinions are not important to us. Your votes are not important to us. I change my votes to Malongo | ||
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On May 07 2009 08:31 Tricode wrote: Hey Qatol, isn't uff da something that a clumsy person would say when they trip or something to that extent. At least that's what i am reading in a google search. For the last time, that clue does not connect to me. | ||
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On May 08 2009 08:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote: ROFL just had to post my fucked pm,  your role was replaced to reg mafia you jackass, and you knew qatol was gf, not you!Not the only problem with that PM! HeavenOnEarth? | ||
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On May 08 2009 08:08 Malongo wrote: you liar you never miss to play when you are townie. I had you since day 2. no kidding read the thread. And the townies have to learn to play with less pms, thats only help for the mafia. Seriously true. Over 150 PMs to me in the first week. It was just insane. Kinda the reason I was quieter than I should have been haha. | ||
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On May 08 2009 08:10 Tricode wrote: I fucking new Lucaswoj was mafia fucking ever since 2nd day clues i been suspecting him but I didn't know how to put it all together to convince the town. Mother fucking >< Knew it! Was he the one you PMed me about? | ||
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On May 08 2009 08:12 Malongo wrote: Ill never talk to you again. After all my work... i feel used... it hurts you know? Hey, I didn't even know I was mafia until after your posters. | ||
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On May 08 2009 08:14 Malongo wrote: Next time let me die like a martir instead of making the fool of me  But you saved my life for a day! Sorry, but you were more useful to me alive. | ||
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On May 08 2009 08:14 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: How did both mafia coordinate so well with each other? Just out of curiosity, there was only one overlapping hit. And I kind of knew Ver was mafia. I didn't entirely trust him especially after some of his massive post. I didn't think there was 8 mafia each family. I'll do a full writeup and post it later, but basically I found ver within hours of bockit dying. | ||
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On May 08 2009 08:16 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: lol i also suspected 0cz3c too, but kind of forgot about him. I had more pressing things :/!! Thats one of the things we seriously played on. People just forgot about stuff that had happened earlier. made life a lot easier for us | ||
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On May 08 2009 08:17 Tricode wrote: @Qatol yeah I was fucking trying to figure you out through le5 card game during that time Qatol also. Fucking Cob made it to where it wasn't easy to check online. I had some others on my list that were mafia. WHen i came to vote for you, i was so fucked up about school, all i saw was this retard medic list you claimed and i was like, fuck it, qatol is mafia. Didn't know you went out admitting it. I was working on some others (others = anyone who i talked to on pm, doesn't mean i was sure you were mafia i just couldn't put my finger on it.). But LucasWoj was my main target ever since day 2. I'm still surprised you haven't heard of the beegees haha. | ||
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On May 08 2009 08:17 HeavOnEarth wrote: also i voted for semioldguy for mayor then edied it to qatol amazing how no one got it haha ^_^ That only happened because BC sent me your name as heavenonearth instead of heavonearth. I was yelling at you for like an hour. | ||
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On May 08 2009 08:19 Tricode wrote: @ Qatol beegees? The youtube music video? Stayin' Alive | ||
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On May 08 2009 08:21 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: hgahahahaha holy shit, I remember when L was being a jackass before the first lnych and he was going insane about how Versatile was mafia and I was saying how hes most likely just a dumbshit towny or a strange mafia. Not quite. He was actually saying VER was mafia. People just THOUGHT he meant Versatile. We were laughing pretty hard at that one. | ||
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Ver was gone for most of the game. Really the mafia was run by me + LTT for the most part. One guy who won't see much love for his work though is heavonearth. All of those inactive lists I posted were compiled by him. Seriously awesome work, man. | ||
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On May 08 2009 08:48 Mynock wrote: On a side-note, my style change worked purrfectly. Just enough suspicion to keep me alive all the way. I wonder what attitude I should choose for next game... You only survived night 1 because showtime! told me he was NOT protecting you. Messed with my hit list so badly. | ||
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On May 08 2009 09:06 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: yeah that last pm, why did you even send that lol I was actually pretty pissed they hit you. I thought I had you pretty controlled. Were you on to me? | ||
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On May 08 2009 09:08 0cz3c wrote: When Camlito posted that ..thing, everyone in the IRC channel got worried and lamented about the fact that Camlito was on a role. Go LTT! ban him for it! We were seriously freaking out about cam though. Good thing he didn't draw a medic haha. Didn't see the Vet role coming at all. | ||
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We were trying to figure out who was helping the mafia the most. It was between Ace, Versatile, Malongo, Tricode, and Vivi57. | ||
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On May 08 2009 09:15 Malongo wrote: Ahahahah I know what you mean. After looking the roles Ace without doubt. You would be surprised. Ver and I were using tricode as a mouth most of the game. Versatile got ace killed for free + wasted a lynch on a veteran. Vivi and you kept me from being lynched. | ||
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On May 08 2009 09:23 Tricode wrote: @Qatol, i don't think ver used me much. I was kinda giving him a chance while i was looking into him. Though i will admit i had idea if he was mafia or not cause he actually had his truthful damn story of when he was going to come back. When he did come back via pm through me. I didn't really do what he asked, and I was kinda sick of our misses so i didn't want to fuck up by killing ver with out any evidence that i could see yet =\. At that point i just wanted a gaurtnee mafia hit. Yeah I didn't know if you were really being a mouth for Ver yet. I just knew you were one for me (the "uncertain" suspects you mentioned) and that you defended Ver. It was enough though. | ||
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On May 08 2009 09:38 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Oh i was, he was so annoying that being said, had he been red, i would have used anime related clues for lelouche I didn't mind the posts for the most part. It was just the mention of things he was doing in the bathroom. I almost lynched him just for that. | ||
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On May 08 2009 10:07 0cz3c wrote: That's the part where essentially all the mafia replied with long posts of their own in order to cover up the Camlito clues, right? (I mean our actions directly after Camlito's gargantuan post.) No, we didn't care about his super long one. That one had like 1 correct connection in it. Hell, it had the uff da = clumsy mafia connection. The 3 AFTER that were the ones we were afraid of. The long posts you were talking about were around when Ace decided to call me out. | ||
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On May 08 2009 10:12 L wrote: Actually yours seems quite a bit easier than LTTs had the game gone the distance. The amount of spicy meatballs in this game made for a fun, tasty treat. Oh please. I started up a three page long mans train on versatile. WRONG! You started up a train on ver which nobody jumped onto for like 2 days! | ||
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On May 08 2009 10:14 LucasWoJ wrote: Yeah, it might have been a two-in-one if you hit qatol. Which is why bodyguards are a lovely thing | ||
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On May 08 2009 11:24 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I could probably handle the main host I don't think I would use a design this complicated though. PM me if you want to set this up. I can definitely handle rules, but I'm unsure about my clues abilities. (This game kinda burned me out so I will likely sit out the next game anyways. People will hopefully understand when they see my writeup which is already 2 pages long and night 2 isn't even done yet.) | ||
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On May 08 2009 11:44 Fishball wrote: Absolutely. I've already brought up this argument on page 51 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=91680¤tpage=51 I've also discussed this topic on MSN with BC. Bottom line, Mafia parties can work together, but not win together. Who the hell would join a FFA Starcraft match, when you know you opponents would just gang up on you then ally end? If you read the mafia role, you will see that it says nothing about us killing other mafia. Besides, its totally infeasible when you consider our numbers. We HAD to unite. If we hadn't, we would have lost badly. | ||
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On May 08 2009 12:05 Fishball wrote: I know, I never mentioned it was an original rule. It just HAS to be done this way, or else, the game itself would be pointless. When BC told me, "One of the Mafia families would just forfeit.", "Town has no chance, etc.", I said it doesn't matter, even if town is totally wiped out. Even if it is just "symbolic" for the two families to kill each other, the game has to be carried out till the end, or else all would deem pointless. This is also why I said on page 51, the town should not be able to throw the game. I just saw the multiple families as a way to make the mafia weaker early on. Mentioning to the town that we did not have to kill each other would have been nice, but we obviously weren't going to reveal that. You guys were depending on it and it actually turned hitting Bockit into the best hit of the game for us. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=92894 | ||
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On May 08 2009 13:09 Incognito wrote: Nice. But on I actually went to Ver accusing Mynock because I thought they were both mafia on opposite sides and I could possibly get one of you to freak out and kill everyone on my list (which I was going to add names to). Unfortunately the rules and the fact that you were already coordinated made my plan useless. That and the fact that Mynock wasn't mafia  Corrected | ||
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On May 08 2009 16:12 Camlito wrote: LOL WTF I WAS FULLY RIGHT ON MY CLUES THIS TOWN SUCKS, LISTEN TO MALONGO MORE. /end Bragging rant well played mafia... actually nah you didn't even do anything special. Thanks a lot! Nice to hear all the hours I spent coordinating things were put to good use! | ||
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On May 08 2009 16:39 Camlito wrote: <3 you Qatol. Trust me, you coulda helped the town with those hours and we would have lost still lol. I admire your work though, and that was just a subtle anger post. Don't mind me when i do that. Well played, seriously. <3 Yeah I know. I got called out for a few things I would have done as town haha. I DID think it was kinda a tragedy that your work was ignored. I was just hoping it was a testament to my trolling skills. | ||
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On May 08 2009 17:21 iLoveKTF wrote: I want to be mafia next time btw.  I totally would have traded you before this game! (Ver and I have a theory that we were made mafia because we both asked BC to make us green before the game) | ||
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On May 08 2009 17:34 Camlito wrote: There is no way a generator made the roles btw ;p. I still love being townie, but haven't had a full game as mafia. One game we owned and then Folca decided he's different, and the other stopped because it was thought to be imba. When that game restarted, i died first night. Well BC already confirmed he tweaked the families. Apparently Ver and I were originally in the same family. He "balanced" the families more. Also I think he said he rolled the CKs off a list of 30 players instead of the full list? Because its a tricky role to play. | ||
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On May 08 2009 17:40 Caller wrote: well what the fuck was I supposed to do I pop bottles and hot hollow-points at each and all of you (Come on!) Maybe it would have been a good idea NOT to hit the player you are sure is a townie? | ||
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On May 09 2009 04:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The only thing i can think for this format, reduce overall player count so mafia size is decent, or have low kp mafia with higher numbers.due to the low number on each side neither wanted to hit the other out of fear of being overwhelmed by town. CK win conditions should also be less annoying (mainly chuiu's) Ltt's i think were fine, maybe reduce the number of things he needs from 4 to 3, but overall his was fun LTTs weren't the greatest win conditions either. He basically had to hope that 4 random townies were killed with absolutely no way to find them except luck of the draw? His become a lot more fun when you have more than 1 CK scrambling for those documents. I suggest giving documents to CKs only. Basically the CKs have to take each other out to win. | ||
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On May 09 2009 05:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The collecting objects idea was something my brother actually mentioned he did in larps when he was younger. As for how the CK found the people he needed. At first its infiltrating town to see if he can find them/rolecheck to find them. I think the rolecheck should be instituted a bit after he request the info at night but maybe still on same night (like 4-8 realtime hours). As for another way to find them, clues were left when someone took one from a townie, so vigi's or mafia could become his targets based on their hits. Yes, but you are basically hoping that everyone with a document is a target. There were players like dreamflower and mikeymoo who were unlikely to take a hit at all. And LTT didn't have a very big chance of finding them on his own. | ||
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On May 09 2009 05:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote: eh, remember, he only talked to you, he never tried to infiltrate the town circle(to my knowledge) which increases his chance of finding people. But yeah, having ck's hunt down eachother could be interesting. Was there even a town circle? (I honestly don't know.) The only circle I stumbled upon (vivi + showtime) I wiped out. | ||
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On May 09 2009 06:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote: mayor was only in this game to stimulate day one posting haha Problem is that isn't how mayor turns out. At least one elected official is always a figurehead for the town when the roles are present. Especially this game since the 3x votes actually made a difference for like the first time ever. | ||
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On May 09 2009 14:08 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I think the role finder ability that was discussed in one of the mafia threads a while back should be tested. Maybe a Random role generator? So it allows people to build some trust. In case its not obvious by the name. Just generates a random townie name and you get that role. Simple enough to allow the town to gain trust or find someone out. But not direct enough where you get the powerful alliances really fast or figure out mafias real fast. I think its a good balance between role finder and role checks. Also I demand a petition for the mafia forum! Rolefinder was one of the most imbalanced ideas we had...... It basically just lets all the blues find each other AND the townies are totally ignored. Plus it confirms townies, which is bad. | ||
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On May 09 2009 16:05 Scamp wrote: The post game discussion has been very interesting and I think I'm now more prepared to play a more active role in the next game played. I'll have to start PM-ing people more and getting more involved with all the discussions. The only PM I got all game was from Qatol and it made me think he was mafia! I guess I should have trusted my instincts more. This was a very rough game for my first game, I must say. You really couldn't be sure about anyone, and then when the hits started rolling in with an incredible degree of accuracy....it's too hard not to panic. Actually my PM to you was honest. It had absolutely nothing to do with my role. (contents below) + Show Spoiler + Don't worry about the more experienced players. Just because they're posting a lot and making accusations doesn't mean that they know what they're talking about any more than anyone else. Seriously, the biggest thing you can do for this game is just be active. Participate in the game. When someone makes a post that you think is sketchy, call them out on it. When you agree with something, explain why. Talking to people behind the scenes via PM is also a useful way of staying active. If you think a certain post might be construed as fishy, ask someone behind the scenes about it. I have other players "sanity check" my potential posts ALL THE TIME. Basically just watch people and make your own decisions on whom you think you can trust. A big way to get better very quickly is to read some of the old games. With that in mind, who do you think we should be looking at as our next suspect? Who looks suspicious/innocent to you? | ||
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On May 09 2009 17:20 Scamp wrote: Hey you saved it. Cool beans. It was that last question that clued me in that you really could be mafia. I suppose it could have just been a friendly question in order to get me thinking and posting but it seemed weird that you would just ask something like that. I kind of got the feeling it was "gauge the new player and if he's insightful then kill him quickly." But even though you were mafia after all that may not have been the case anyway. I really should have sent out more PMs and trusted my instincts. Turns out (after the fact, of course) that they were pretty good. Things just got so crazy and confusing that it became impossible to really find someone I felt I could trust. Even though I never protected a mafia I was unfortunate that the mafia never hit anyone I protected other than Pyrr who was double-hit and RoL who was hit when I was also hit. I would have PM-ed whoever I saved even though Qatol's explanation as to why I shouldn't made sense. Medic is a very stressful role. Yeah medic is a really hard role to play. 2 saves is incredible for a new player. Excellent work. And I wasn't checking for insight tbh haha. At that point, Ver was doing the hitlists. I was just trying to get you active in the game since it was so inactive. | ||
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On May 09 2009 17:32 Camlito wrote: You did a great job scamp . Better than previous medics.but.. Scamp protects malongo Mafia family 1 hits Camlito x2 We were sooo happy when that went through haha. None of us read you as a veteran. If it makes you feel better, if I were a medic, you would have gotten a prot every cycle, especially early in the game! | ||
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On May 09 2009 22:10 Ace wrote: As for balance, this game was balanced. The 2 Mafia would have eventually had to kill each other at some point but the game just ended because of how lopsided it was looking. If the town had managed to kill even 2 more mafia no one would be complaining about balance. From the Mafia point of view they somewhat have to work together if the town is on their shit or else they will both be wiped out. Incorrect. We were allowed to work together from the start. There was never any condition for us that we had to kill the other family. To make this perfectly clear: BC told us right after night 1 that we were allowed to unite. Us sharing the full mafia list had nothing to do with anything. There was never a condition where we had to kill each other. Instead, we were told we COULD kill each other, or we could unite. It was totally our choice. | ||
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On May 10 2009 01:50 Malongo wrote: This is so wrong people. The moment both mafias "found" eachother there was no more balance with these winning conditions. I mean to be "perfectly balanced" the game ended day 5, theres no way you can call this perfect balance even with the town inactive and not playing well. Then why was chuiu's game seen as balanced possibly favoring the mafia? Same mafia count. Same KP. There was 1 less vigi but 2 veterans. There were 2 CKs but no millers. And there was no sheriff. Oh yeah, and the mafia could kill each other night 1.... Seems to me like the mafia took a pretty big hit when comparing this game to last game. | ||
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On May 10 2009 03:20 Malongo wrote: I think its clear that Malongo and Mynock share opinions in this case. For those that call this "perfect balance" lets make a small summary of the lynchs (the power of the town): Day 1: Qatol Mayor, Inerpinept lynched. Day 2: Multiple discussion, 3 people to lych nobody mafia, versatile lynched. Day 3: Qatol get away saving his ass, Quickstriker lunched. Day 4: Qatol annihilated. Day 5: Town gets 2 mafia, inactivity kills town, mafia sway the votes GG. I mean wheres the balance? Even with full town activity day 5 mafia could have easily sway the lynch, and in that point numbers were like 25 or so townies to 9 mafia. Assuming the game is "perfectly balanced" means town has to lynch forcefully day 2 or 3, and even then i doubt the result could have change. Lets suppose Qatol lynched day 3, then day 4 what? monoxide? quickstriker? we would have come to day 5 in exaclty the same position AT BEST with an extra mafia lynched. I really think calling the game balanced is nonsense, mafia won i have no trouble about that, they played well and the town bad. However this game was not balanced. Period. Assuming perfect balance, the town figures out a way to decrease KP before day 5..... With any previous setup, the town still would have lost if they only managed to find 1 mafia on their own before day 5. Are you trying to say the town should be allowed to miss on the first 3 lynches + a vigi hit + lose another vigi without him using his hit and still have a reasonable chance to win? | ||
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On May 10 2009 05:03 Malongo wrote: Ok im out of the this discussion. Really nobody really addresed the main point in my post, L and 0czec feel that im attacking mafia. Read the post. EVEN IF THE TOWN LYNCHED ANOTHER MAFIA THE RESULT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME. Please learn to read thi is disgusting. Im not evaluating who played better or what the town made wrong. The fact is what i posted in caps. If you cant discuss that ima stop now. So for town to get a chance has to kill AT LEAST 2 mafia by day 5. Stop acting like a inmature im discussing the balance not how did you play. Ok, so with 2 vigi hits, 5 lynches, and you probably should have been using 2 double lynches by day 5 (9 kills) you can't kill 2 mafia? I'm not saying anything about how I played. That is irrelevant right now. I'm just trying to ask you what you think would be balanced? How many mafia do you think the town should have to figure out by day 4? day 5? Personally, I think it should be at LEAST 3-4 by day 5. I just went back and checked BC's first game (which was pretty close). 4 mafia dead day 4, 5 on day 5. Do you think the town needs to work faster than that? Slower than that? | ||
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On May 10 2009 05:27 Malongo wrote: You sure checked about checklists didnt you? AH and no millers and rolechecks first day. Honestly im replying to a wall. LETS WORK THIS WAY QATOL: 1 First day lynch is random based. The town has almost 0 chance to get a mafia even with a townie in the office. TRUE OR FALSE you reply please. 2 Days 2, 3, 4 and five the town got a mafia lynch TRUE OR FALSE 3 EVEN supposing that town got 2 mafia lynchs day 2 3 4 DID THE TOWN STAND A CHANCE DAY 5? TRUE or FALSE. I agree day 1 lynch is totally random. Town has approximately a 1 in 5 chance of getting a mafia. However I think it isn't unreasonable for the town to have killed at least 1 mafia with the day 2 lynch and/or the night 2 vigi hits. KP formula this game was funky, but the town HAS to decrease it decently early or they stand no chance. And that is how I think it should be. I argue that you are forgetting about vigi hits. Also you don't think it would have mattered if you had taken away a KP from us earlier? If you had killed say Ver day 2 and me day 3 (or vice versa)? Do you even know what that would have done to our bluesniping? Not to mention my family had about even odds of just putting in a hitlist on the other family. I realize that game had votechecks. Vigilantes also had 2 hits instead of 1. Notice I decreased the number of mafia I expected to catch by day 5 (the town had 5 and could have barely won if they had stayed active; I said I expect town to have caught 3-4 on our their meaning 4-5 dead mafia thanks to 2 families). Again, how many dead mafia do you think is reasonable by day 4 or day 5? | ||
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On May 10 2009 05:59 Malongo wrote: Honestly you didnt answer all my questions. Calling that the vigi hits balance the game is nonsense, one vigi failed other was killed before hit, thats part of the game not completly related to balance. If something vigis DONT want to send theyr hits early so calling balance there is not really fair for the disscusion. Please lets AGAIN think suppose ver was killed day 3 for a vigi well played, DID THE TOWN STAND A CHANCE DAY 5? And most importantly Day 5 we HAD 2 mafia but we didnt stand a chance to get the votes even with full activity. This is my last post. I dont want to keep this going just look and read oczec, L and ver responses, the only thing you are arguing is how well mafia sniped blues or how bad the town played, i really dont care. Without ver after day 3? Let's see.... iLoveKTF would have probably died a cycle or 2 later. Fishball was a 50/50 of dying at all. Scamp would not have died. The mafia would have also not killed 3 more players, almost all of whom were voting. I'm unsure which question I didn't answer. I guess did the town stand a chance if they had gotten another mafia sooner? Absolutely. As far as vigis go, I see the role this way: A missed vigi hit is the same as a missed lynch. A vigi who dies without using his hit is the same as the town failing to use a double lynch. In my view you didn't miss 2 lynches (I won't even count my auto-lynch), you missed 3 because of Caller's failed hit. You didn't fail to double lynch once (day 3), you failed to double lynch twice because you lost Rage (who should have realized he was in trouble when Bockit flipped red and sog said he was suspicious). You realize that if you had full activity that last day, the town would have won. I did the math. With the failed double lynch, mafia win 3-2. Without it, the town win like 10-0 (don't remember exactly the numbers, but the town win). That last lynch was actually a decently large risk because most of the mafia outed themselves. Anyways, this debate is really getting nowhere. If anyone wants to continue it, PM me. | ||
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On May 10 2009 06:35 Incognito wrote: Regardless of whether or not it would have changed the outcome of the game, we need to know the rules. But seriously Qatol might have been lynched day 3 if we'd have known. He barely survived by 2-3 votes. Which isn't too hard to get once you point out the rules. Agreed. I think one lesson we can take away from this is everyone should know the rules from the start. | ||
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On May 10 2009 06:37 Ace wrote: I don't know, I think some Townies generally still didn't realize Qatol was mafia ^_^. Even knowing there were 2 Mafia families what's the point of keeping him alive - he isn't gonna do what the town says anyway lol. Sure I will. As long as the town wants to lynch a townie! | ||
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