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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 01 2009 14:10 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: EBWOP! and Ace, you know I just try to kill you off of principle every game. Its just gotta happen. count yourself likely I aint no vigi  + Show Spoiler + OR AMI????? + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.tobyspinks.com/images/oreally.jpg) | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
shit it sure is quiet in this town. I can even hear the roflowls h00ting. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On April 28 2009 11:46 Versatile wrote: 2. Ace is mafia. I'd bet my left tittay.  | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 04 2009 17:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote: ROFL, you should get it stickied then ace + Show Spoiler + I'd hope . I've got some posts somewhere on another forum where after I modded a game, I'd point out what both sides did wrong and wwell. Also stuff on how to get information from people, how to and when to roleclaim, and stuff like how to go out with a bang if you're a townie, why you should always change your playstyle, and how to abuse some roles. When there are a bunch of good people playing the mind games get pretty scary as it's hard to tell who' lying. ^_^ | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 04 2009 17:11 BloodyC0bbler wrote: get a game with the top players from that site with the top players from this site for epic lul match? Versatile and MBH were the only 2 I'd say are good enough to play with TL players. When I modded a game here a few of them from the site played and well they performed miserably. There's another guy from there who I'd try to get to play but he's a...very unorthodox player. One time he made a "mafia % list" where every time someone posted he'd update their % of being mafia (wtf). He was an innocent, and his list had all innocents on it. If you argued with him or called him a dumbass your % would jump by like 20% and he'd vote to lynch you ^_^ | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 04 2009 17:41 Vivi57 wrote: Wow ace, tl seems like it has a few very good players then a bunch of mid level players. it's kind of hard to imagine a game lower than this. I always assumed where you played, our top level players were about the average skill there. I only played there in a few games for fun. I pretty much stopped playing months ago due to stupidity on a few people's parts. Yes, even worse than tl.net. There was one game where no mafia had died (3 of them) and about 6 townies left iirc. The game ended because: Mafia killed 3 townies. Vigi killed the medic even though she was confirmed innocent. Medic protection was on a mafia member. Somebody had a sibling so when one dies, the other dies (both townies). Pretty much a mass killing that I couldn't believe. And there are a good amount of really good players on TL.net. I'd say were all at the same level as some people excel in other areas that others dont. I just seem to be the most visible by public opinion (which means I tend to die very fast). Trust me when I say can't say I'm the best, there are some equally if not more dangerous people around. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
First of all let me address my play style - I don't have one. Purposely I do things differently every game. This is why when Versatile tried to say she knows how I play I laughed. She doesn't, because if she did she'd know I was innocent. This incident also cemented Qatol's guilt but more on that in a bit. When the game first started I just wanted to be quiet. I honestly felt I could just sit back, read some posts and chill out till Day 2 or 3 and bust out with some post about who fucked up. Qatol runs for mayor and racks up votes very fast. Unfortunately the town is incredibly stupid and doesn't question this. Whether Qatol is mafia or not the fact that a large group of people vote for him even before enough people step up, no matter how comical they are should raise suspicion. It doesn't outright tell us that Qatol is mafia but it does tell us that a group of people have an interest in him. I realize at this moment after raising this point no one is paying attention and conclude the town is full of asshats. Might as well lay low for real now and not do too much. WHOOPS I get hit Night 1. Luckily ILoveKTF protected me. Then we see the Bockit PM. This was the biggest turning point of the game. After the deaths on Night 1 we realize there are 2 mafia families (people like RoL still can't figure this out) and some townies are talking too much. This is further cemented by the discussion we have. Quickstriker and JeeJee are on trial with Qatol leading the pack. I read some posts and the case for JeeJee is so simple I can't believe people are falling for it: Qatol has this PM from Bockit (dead mafia) which mentions JeeJee, so JeeJee must be mafia too... Are you people fucking stupid? Qatol isn't a confirmed innocent and Bockit was a definite mafia. Even ignoring Qatol, you know Bockit isn't stupid so it's very well possible he could be setting JeeJee up. Duh. Of course people are stupid so this simple notion doesn't occur to them. Now lets get to the Versatile scenario and how this led me to both Qatol and L being mafia. I was sure on Qatol after JeeJee, but Versatile's bad play did it (ironic isn't it). When the town tried to blame me for Versatile's death Qatol said since she knows my playstyle and she died as an innocent, then I must be fishy. It's a deceptive idea, but not tricky to people that know how to read. Versatile = Innocent Versatile died, so therefore whatever she says must be true. This is a false way of thinking. Versatile had no idea of knowing my role. She was just guessing and playing badly. So whether she's innocent or not she can't know anything about me. Simple, but some townies were such saps they couldn't follow this logic. By now, Qatol was so easily caught guilty it was or at least should have been a matter of time before his lynch. As for L I caught on to him when he was arguing with Versatile. He was right - she played like shit. He was also right that the way she played was so mafia like (the excuses) that any sane townie (the smart ones) would have realized she was just bad for the game. However one thing L didn't do - he never addressed Qatol. This was a big tipoff for me. If L, who was arguing with Versatile is reading the thread how could he not catch on to Qatol's bs and call him out? I already had my case against Qatol but I didn't have enough to convince anyone L was mafia. Now right before I died something tricky happened. I had a PM from Qatol claiming the medic list was fake, Qatol is mafia and a whole bunch of stuff I don't even remember. I sent the PMs to semioldguy thinking that if he is mafia that wouldn't matter because they would already know it anyway and can't kill t_co for fear this PM spread to more than just me. Then it hit me: I forgot there were 2 mafia families for a second. This is bad - I want the town to win. If I give any of the mafia families too much info, they could have power over the other family therefore dictating the game. I'd rather both of them be afraid and try to backstab the other with the town being the eventual winner. Of course this would only work if Qatol and SoG are not in the same family. After I send the PM out and reload the forum I see BCs post a minute before I sent it: fuck. Now I can't even get a response from SoG so I have no clue about how he'd react and the info is out there. I don't know why I wasn't protected on this night but that's that. By this time I realized the 2 families can't even do too much harm to each other because neither side truly knows how many medics/Cks/vigis and other townies the other has under the influence. The only other mafia I would have known from my short time playing was LucasWoj. He always questions anything I say no matter how wrong his questions are. So I didn't even know he was playing the game because I didn't look at the player list. If I did I probably would have caught on to him for being quiet for so long. Either way the town played like shit, Tricode,Vivi, everyone that voted for JeeJee to die =Town LVPs. As for my tips for playing here they are straight from PM land and some others: 1.)Keep your story simple Anytime some guy PMs me with a long post about a lot of things I'm usually very wary. If he'd truly want something it would probably be a really short message unless we've been talking for a while. 2.) You don't have to tell people your role I pretty much do this every game. The only time in any mafia game anybody knew my role without me telling them was when MBH was a DT. You can be very effective without someone knowing your role. The less they ask the more trustworthy they are to a certain extent. It's also why I usually never ask people their role. 3.) Anytime somebody has an excuse as to why they couldn't post (like exams) write it down. Lo and behold in a few hours at least 10 more people will say they'll be inactive because of exams also. Always one of these guys is gonna be mafia. Always because if they wanted to start going after inactives 1 mafia hiding amongst a bunch of these guys means lots of innocent death without strong analysis. 4.) Make sure everyone talks. Quiet people are the first to get lynched. This makes sure that from the get go Mafia have to be involved in the town. Likewise from the Mafia point of view this works very well - if you are active early when you start giving out the bullshit pies only the smart people will pick up on it. 5.) Probably the most important rule of Mafia that most people just don't understand: It's not what you know, it's what you can convince people to believe. This is really where the Mafia game is won and lost and people just don't get it. In this game you are a mafia mayor and I know this because I read it correctly. Does it matter? Not really, because now I have to convince the town that you truly are. Likewise we all know quickstriker and JeeJee are innocent but in the grand scheme of things it means shit - people believe they are guilty. Once you get people to believe certain things about other players you can start either dividing the town and standing back silently watching them devour each other as mafia, or as a townie bring them all to focus on a few people. The idea is all the same - persuasion is much more powerful than outright facts. If you can lie skillfully or find a crucial mistake to exploit while keeping a straight story people will often trust you easily unless they are smart enough to be objective (coming next). 6.) Reading objectively. This really means learning how to ignore the emotions and fluff in a post and picking out the key information and coming to a conclusion. Doing this you would start to ask yourself some basic questions and realize that a lot of the posts you see can be easily broken down to find major holes. Qatols posts were good - they were good enough to paint him as supportive to the town's plight. Of course I read them objectively and realized that they weren't. He didn't have anything on QS and JeeJee except misguided townies. 7.) Don't revenge accuse. If someone calls you mafia, don't turn around and claim they are mafia unless you are sure. Revenge accusing is just bad as now the town can't see the facts of an argument and it's just some guy mad/paranoid he's painted red. It's also bad because if they are both innocent the Mafia can keep the town focused on these 2 players all the time. 8.) Read posts from the past. Anytime someone dies, you should go back and skim all their posts. If the town is doing bad instead of skimming you should scrutinize them feverishly. 9.) when sharing information everyone doesn't need to know everything. If you're talking with someone privately keep them on a need to know basis. Same goes with the town. A bunch of clueless people are much more dangerous than 1 sane individual. If you tell them too much or too critical info it WILL be misused. Slowly give people more information based on their reactions to past info. 10.) Change your playstyle or at least keep it ambiguous but not threatening. This is obvious. 11.) Not a tip, but partial discussion of what happened this game with so many townies: Mafia talks to someone through PMs thats innocent (Player X) Player X starts posting mafia influenced information to the town actively. People question his stupidity. Problem is he's so active you can't really do much without wanting to lynch him as a town for fear of his stupidity spreading to other players (who probably got Mafia poisoned mouths too, ugh). Player X is also adamant because not only does he take offense to being called wrong, but the Mafia probably made him feel that those ideas weren't theirs but "his own". So he argues even though he is wrong but doesn't know it. Player X gets lynched, flips innocent, town has lots of new innocent suspects and no one knows the mafia fucked Player X because Player X was too proud to admit he got his "ideas" from Mafia. The Mafia just stay quiet and watch the new circus. There are more little things I usually do during a game that Im sure I forgot. But those first 10 are usually good enough to get you through a game. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
)ETA: I also loved the overall format of this game. I think 2 mafia families + CKs was good this time around. It gives the Mafia an element of uncertainty they have to deal with also ^_^ | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 09 2009 04:41 Tricode wrote: @ACE i think i should get a break for some of my bad decisions. It's my first time being townie and second game. I have other things i could say though =\ but i guess i shouldn't, don't want to start a stupid argument. Say what you have to say, but if it's your first game don't worry. All of us made bad plays this game so don't think the blame is solely on you. @BC: 3 sounds fine. But as a CK how did you set them up so they would have to figure out who their targets were? The document idea is really good. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
And as a general idea, we dont need a town circle to win. You just need to know how to roleclaim. This doesn't mean you see some guy you think is legit and give up your role - that's generally a bad idea. You have discussions or whatever, hopefully public, and when you are certain there is no way the person can be mafia then maybe you roleclaim. As for balance, this game was balanced. The 2 Mafia would have eventually had to kill each other at some point but the game just ended because of how lopsided it was looking. If the town had managed to kill even 2 more mafia no one would be complaining about balance. From the Mafia point of view they somewhat have to work together if the town is on their shit or else they will both be wiped out. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
. That time when BC was VI and people still wanted to lynch mikeymoo I made really long posts and people still didn't understand. meh x_x | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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