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TL Mafia 3 [Night 5] - Page 3

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
November 03 2008 23:14 GMT
#724
So now the question is, do we want people to vote for Ace or decafchicken? We obviously don't want to kill off Folca, however small the chance is that he's detective. Both Ace and decafchicken are likely to be mafia, but who should we bandwagon on so that we don't accidentally kill a detective?
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-03 23:17:10
November 03 2008 23:16 GMT
#726
Ok, I might as well.

I'm voting for Ace.

Just to clear anything up.

EDIT: And if Ace happens to be green, our next lynch targets should be Folca, and then whoever behavior/clue analysis points to.
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-04 01:20:19
November 04 2008 01:19 GMT
#759
Folca might get paramedic protection, but mafia might assume that he won't because of the threat of suicide bombers against the paramedics so just send in normal hits, but then Folca's paramedics will save him. Very hard to determine what'll happen from this, the best course of action is to just weight decisions and either protect him or not protect him randomly. Similarly, the best course of action for mafia if they want to kill Folca is to weight the decisions (using up a suicide bomber or however many hits) and go randomly from there.

Again, incomplete information sucks.

Also, having mafia send in at least one hit for Folca makes sure that another innocent townie doesn't die.
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-04 01:37:02
November 04 2008 01:36 GMT
#763
@MTF, Yes there is, and it's the possibility of him being able to use his powers again if some paramedics protect him. Mafia have the dilemma of how many hits to put on him and whether or not to use a suicide bomber on him, because they don't know what the paramedics are going to do. It's possible that none of them protect him, and mafia waste 3 hits on him, or even better, a suicide bomber, because they expect the paramedics to save him. So if they know this, they could use only one hit on him, knowing that paramedics might not save him. But then again, the paramedics might, so they just wasted a hit.

See where I'm going with this?
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
November 04 2008 01:45 GMT
#766
On November 04 2008 10:38 Ace wrote:
Emp the medics don't know who each other are, so that idea goes out the window since it's not the mafia second guessing medic protection that's key but the medics guessing if the other medics will protect also.

You seem so sure Folca is telling the truth, blind trust huh?


Exactly. Each medic makes his/her individual random decision. If they would collude, it'd actually be worse for the town.
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
November 04 2008 02:36 GMT
#775
On November 04 2008 11:30 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2008 11:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Few situations:
Ace Red -> dies: Means Folca is probably a detective, might or might not survive till day 2 to put down a list. If the Mafia don't kill him on night 2, this would be a very interesting situation.
Ace Blue -> dies: Not good. Kill Folca, obviously.
Ace Green -> dies: Repeat

Folca Red -> dies: Means Ace is probably clear of any charges. Might or might not survive till day 2 which would be irrelevant if Ace has no specific role, and he would die pretty soon if he isn't mafia as well.
Folca Blue -> dies: Not good. Kill Ace, obviously.
Folca Green -> dies: wtf.

The fact that Folca roleclaimed and said that he's a detective drastically reduces the chance of him being green. It means he's basically either a detective or mafia. Ace doesn't have this luxury, as there's a much bigger likeliness that Ace is green, statistically, then a detective. Since Folca can contribute more with his powers if he indeed is a detective then Ace could if he's green, coupled with the fact that Folca was willing to lynch himself at first (though this might've been part of the plan to sway votes, but I'm not completely convinced by that), I vote for Ace as I have already stated earlier.

It will be a shame if Ace dies and is green, but let's face it: If Folca is mafia and gets lynched, it won't be long before the mafia kill Ace either. Statistically in terms of information the town can get, it would be a better idea to lynch Ace then Folca.



We're not going to have those detective abilities by Day 2 if Folca is a detective. There is a 1/3 shot that Ace could be a mafia, while Folca is 1/2. I feel like the higher risk in this case is to keep Folca alive because we lose both. If we keep Ace alive and we accidentally do kill our detective, then the vigilante should step in and kill Ace overnight.

I'm going to switch my vote from DecafChicken to Folca.


This is just bullshit.

Both of them have 1/5 chance of them being mafia and 3/50 chance of being detectives. To the town, their behaviors will "weight" what we think of these probabilities, that is, whether it's more or less likely for them to be mafia or detective, based on their behavior.
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-04 02:47:37
November 04 2008 02:46 GMT
#779
The thing is, by roleclaiming DT, obviously some other DT would be suspicious and rolecheck him.

The fact that no other person claiming to be DT has spoken up saying that they investigated him and that Folca is mafia pretty much ensures that Folca isn't mafia. I'm pretty sure that once Folca roleclaimed DT, another one checked him out, found out he was DT, and decided to stay silent. They'd only pull the alarm if Folca were actually mafia.

Honestly. If any of you guys were DT and someone claimed they were DT and accused Ace, wouldn't your natural reaction be to investigate Folca and see if he were lying? Exactly. I'm positive that some other DT has investigated Folca, found him to be DT, and is thus remaining silent.
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-04 02:56:46
November 04 2008 02:55 GMT
#783
On November 04 2008 11:50 decafchicken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2008 11:46 Empyrean wrote:
The thing is, by roleclaiming DT, obviously some other DT would be suspicious and rolecheck him.

The fact that no other person claiming to be DT has spoken up saying that they investigated him and that Folca is mafia pretty much ensures that Folca isn't mafia. I'm pretty sure that once Folca roleclaimed DT, another one checked him out, found out he was DT, and decided to stay silent. They'd only pull the alarm if Folca were actually mafia.

Honestly. If any of you guys were DT and someone claimed they were DT and accused Ace, wouldn't your natural reaction be to investigate Folca and see if he were lying? Exactly. I'm positive that some other DT has investigated Folca, found him to be DT, and is thus remaining silent.


or the other DTs already used their ability, don't want to die, etc.


Think about this. If Folca were actually a DT and a DT investigated him and found that he was, then we'd have one dead DT, Folca.

If Folca were mafia and a DT investigated him, the DT would naturally speak up and say that Folca is mafia, and the other DT would die (to mafia). Either way, we have one dead detective. Besides, the DT also realizes how important a townie Ace could be, and would also naturally want to save Ace.

EDIT:

On November 04 2008 11:53 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2008 11:46 Empyrean wrote:
The thing is, by roleclaiming DT, obviously some other DT would be suspicious and rolecheck him.

The fact that no other person claiming to be DT has spoken up saying that they investigated him and that Folca is mafia pretty much ensures that Folca isn't mafia. I'm pretty sure that once Folca roleclaimed DT, another one checked him out, found out he was DT, and decided to stay silent. They'd only pull the alarm if Folca were actually mafia.

Honestly. If any of you guys were DT and someone claimed they were DT and accused Ace, wouldn't your natural reaction be to investigate Folca and see if he were lying? Exactly. I'm positive that some other DT has investigated Folca, found him to be DT, and is thus remaining silent.


Or they could have figured out he was mafia, and are keeping quiet until tomorrow when they won't be targets and screw us over.


The problem is, if they found Folca to be mafia, then they'd know that there'd be a high chance that Ace is townie. Now they would weigh Ace's death against their own DT life.
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-04 02:58:53
November 04 2008 02:57 GMT
#786
Anyway, one thing to be absolutely sure of: after tonight's deaths, analyze posting patterns. See who accuses whom, see who defends whom, etc. Posting behavior is a very good indicator of role. Put yourselves in mafia shoes and ask yourselves what you'd do in this situation when confronted by a new argument. I cannot stress that enough.

EDIT:

On November 04 2008 11:57 Ace wrote:
Or Emp, they could realize Folca was a DT but realized revealing themselves to Folca also makes bring them out into the open, and also questions whether they or legit or not. So they couldn't do that even if they wanted to, so what your saying is wrong.


By saying Folca were actually mafia, they'd reveal Folca's guilt and your (ostensible) innocence.
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
November 04 2008 03:02 GMT
#790
On November 04 2008 12:00 HeRoS)Pink wrote:
also if a dt did rolecheck folca and turns out to be red, why would he sacrifice himself to reveal the role of the player likely to be lynched today?
we would have killed 1 mafia and kept all 3 of our DTs


Oh, this is a good point. Hadn't actually considered this.
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
November 04 2008 03:10 GMT
#792
To be honest, I'm leaning more and more towards supporting Ace. He has very solid arguments and everything. It's hard not to agree with him.

Hell, even if he is mafia, he's still a great asset to the town if not for anything but his intelligence.

Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
November 04 2008 04:07 GMT
#803
At this rate, probably folca.
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
November 04 2008 04:27 GMT
#809
Keep in mind that Vigilantes leave clues also, and mafia can clue analyze who killed one of them to find out who some of the vigis are :/
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
November 04 2008 04:36 GMT
#813
Ah, my bad.

I'm changing my vote to Folca. This is final. Sorry Chuiu .

If you turn out to be mafia, Ace, at least we can figure out with some degree of certainty who other mafia members are based on behavior in this thread. But hopefully you're not

(though I still secretly and, I suppose, irrationally (to some extent) believe you are)
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-04 04:45:11
November 04 2008 04:40 GMT
#816
If you were mafia, I figure you'd act in the town's interest for the first few cycles to gain the town's trust. Make of that what you will

EDIT: Missed an apostrophe.
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
November 04 2008 05:19 GMT
#825
On November 04 2008 14:18 nemY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2008 14:17 clazziquai wrote:
On November 04 2008 14:13 RtS)Night[Mare wrote:
F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5




C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
November 04 2008 05:46 GMT
#863
On November 04 2008 14:34 Ace wrote:
Folca died pointing a finger at five people.

As the biggest threat, I obviously would be the prime candidate. That does not mean he investigated me. Folca and another DT probably colluded, with Folca investigating decaf or gladius and the other DT investigating me.

Of course, Folca doesn't even know if the other DT was legit and before he died he never told us. So you're wrong.


Desperation isn't very becoming
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
November 04 2008 06:03 GMT
#878
If you're saved by a paramedic, do you know that a paramedic has chosen to save you? If not, then my advice for paramedics is to protect someone randomly. Mafia might use a suicide bomber on someone they expect paramedic protection on, so you can try to protect someone else so they waste their bomber. Then again, knowing that, you could protect someone you think they'd suicide bomb since they think you wouldn't risk your life protecting them. You see where this is going?

Right.

Again, without a central authority to direct things, it's difficult.

And Ace, just don't try to defend yourself anymore. Occam's Razor > your explanation of what happened, and everyone knows it. Try and die with some dignity please
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-04 06:09:23
November 04 2008 06:08 GMT
#885
@ BloodyCobbler, Don't try and draw the detectives into the open. If you're mafia, at least try to hide it somewhat.

Honestly, to best utilize them, we should just suggest things for them to do, hope they read the thread and follow suggestions, then if anything major comes up, have them sacrifice themselves and use paramedics on them later if necessary (paramedic problem again...read my previous post).
Moderator
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17048 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-04 06:15:57
November 04 2008 06:15 GMT
#890
And how would you propose the DTs get together? By having someone investigate someone, find he's a townie, and having that townie speak up? Yeah, mafia can roleclaim that townie role as well.

You might as well have two different townies, one for each remaining DT, and have them be rolechecked and be the voice of the DTs.

EDIT: I'm going to sleep now. I'll catch up on this in the morning.
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