EPTOn June 13 2024 13:03 AlphaZero wrote:
He hasn't done that. His top scum read hasn;t changed all game really.
your scum reads have barely changed eitherHe hasn't done that. His top scum read hasn;t changed all game really.
What are you saying, lol
Sweet Summer Mafia - Page 184
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
What are you saying, lol | ||
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scott31337
United States2979 Posts
On June 13 2024 13:03 AlphaZero wrote: Like to boil down the essence of the reason that both scott and mocsta are mafia They aren't trying to solve, because they aren't genuinely considering the reasons i could be town. they are trying just trying to push a mislynch here. We are solving the game And now you are stepping up because you are feeling the pressure. Anybody reasonable would understand this That's why you shot Oats | ||
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AlphaZero
Korea (South)759 Posts
On June 13 2024 13:06 scott31337 wrote: We are solving the game And now you are stepping up because you are feeling the pressure. Anybody reasonable would understand this That's why you shot Oats Yeah, I would never shoot oats here. he scumread mocsta, and I was his 2nd top town read. How do you reconcile that fact? | ||
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scott31337
United States2979 Posts
On June 13 2024 13:03 AlphaZero wrote: He hasn't done that. His top scum read hasn;t changed all game really. Because my scum read is solid and I just have to figure out your teammate. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Side note, I don't find the whole "scott31337 slipped that die_meatbaby is town" thing very compelling. I think it makes sense from the perspective of someone who is (theoretically) town and is overconfident in pre-flip reads. As in, it matches the rest of the way scott31337 has played. First question, why does scott31337 scumread AlphaZero and townread Mocsta? He posted some (imo weak) reasons. In fact, scott31337 literally says "I appreciate his attempts, but it's not a win over" when referring to Mocsta's case of scott31337's strongest scumread, AlphaZero. But he says these are the best reasons to scumread AlphaZero. Basically I'm supposed to believe that sscott31337 thinks that this case that he doesn't think is all that strong is the best case against AlphaZero, yet he's still extremely confident in AlphaZero being mafia? Strong enough to base the rest of his reads off of AlphaZero being mafia, anyway >< Second point, sandroba voted for scott31337 early day 1 and left his vote there. However, sandroba didn't post from page 24 until after the day 1 deadline. I think it's quite possible for sandroba to vote for his mafia partner, and then something comes up and he can't change it, even if it's a close vote against a townie. Third point, scott31337 voted for sandroba at 4:11p EDT June 10. He was the third person to do so (after raynpelikoneet and Koshi). Would scott31337 do this as mafia? It looks like it's Koshi's vote that directly prompts him to do this (scott31337 notes Koshi's vote at 4:10p EDT and then votes for sandroba one minute later). This is about halfway through sandroba's series of catchup posts. From one perspective, it feels a little early to bus, since sandroba is actually posting at this time, but from another perspective, it feels like a good time to get a vote down, one which he can move later if needed. But, did scott31337 set himself up to move? Scott31337 was scumreading sandroba, Alakaslam, and AlphaZero. He also said he wouldn't vote for die_meatbaby. I actually think this (point 3) is a decent reason to townread scott31337. Sandroba (flipped mafia) was reading Koshi, raynpelikoneet, die_meatbaby, and Alakaslam as potential mafia. He later says that he would vote for any of raynpelikoneet, die_meatbaby, or Koshi. He doesn't suggest voting for Alakaslam at all. Scott31337 set himself up to vote for sandroba, Alakaslam, or AlphaZero. Maybe I'm overthinking it but if scott31337 and sandroba are mafia together here, why wouldn't they suggest lynching Alakaslam (assuming Alakaslam is town for the moment)? I just think it doesn't make much sense for mafia to walk themselves into voting separately or hoping that town randomly shenanigans onto the one scumread they have in common. Like, if scott31337 and sandroba are mafia together here, scott31337 saying he won't vote for die_meatbaby makes it extremely unlikely for sandroba to survive. Scott31337 actually re-evaluates die_meatbaby the next day, around 12p EDT June 11, and commits to not switching. To be fair, by this point there are a large number of votes on sandroba and sandroba stopped posting. Maybe this isn't as strong as I thought. Maybe just a slight reason to townread scott31337. I do think it's not completely negligible though. | ||
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scott31337
United States2979 Posts
On June 13 2024 12:57 Trfel wrote: He's watching out for your best interests! Side note, thanks for the explanation on Mocsta, I'll look into it more. You think Mocsta is more likely mafia than scott31337? Did you blow away my N2 post? You didn't want me to "rush" you. I would assume you are caught up in the thread? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
Sure EoD2 vote count.. colours are purely to stand out in response On June 12 2024 08:57 Grackaroni wrote: Day Two sandroba (7); raynpelikoneet, Koshi, Scott31337, Oatsmaster, die_meatbaby, trfel, Alakaslam die_meatbaby (3): raynpelikoneet(1): Mocsta, Vivax (0): Koshi (0): scott31337 (0): Sandroba and AlphaZero voted together In AlphaZero world, Scott, DMB and Sandroba are F-Tier scum reads = guranteed scum I get there is a difficult of an F-tier on each wagon; yet alphazero never talks about this, such that its not even a consideration. and me identifying a blatant lie is in response to this: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?page=183#3644 On June 13 2024 12:51 AlphaZero wrote: 2.) he is not considering [red]mocsta[red] as mafia who also did not vote for sandro, and in fact was the most vocal opponent of the lynch and is in fact voting with him. if alphazero seeks to distort his post to at a point of time in d2, i shared the same vote destination as sandroba. this is true. i voted DMB and it had nothing to do with sandroba - ignored by alphazero Sandroba voted Rayn with me, as did AlphaZero & trfel - again ignored by AlphaZero | ||
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AlphaZero
Korea (South)759 Posts
The second part you have in red is a comprehension fail, I am saying scott is voting with you. | ||
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scott31337
United States2979 Posts
On June 13 2024 12:54 AlphaZero wrote: See, he is uncomfortable with me pointing this out. He wants me to go away  Nope, I want to answer anything I ask you to. You are just reaching. Sure found a way to work around your schedule feeling the pressure I've learn people find the time to what's important to them That's why I threw a lot of people out of my life They wouldn't find time for me | ||
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AlphaZero
Korea (South)759 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
If there is something I am misunderstanding, please point it out. It is very possible that I am missing something. You think AlphaZero is mafia for how he posts about sandroba but doesn't end up voting for him, right? Basing this off of post #3410. Why would AlphaZero, as mafia, share so many suspicions about his mafia partner sandroba and then not bus him when it becomes obvious sandroba is being lynched and sandroba gives up? (I mean, good mafia play is to bus him before it becomes hyper obvious, but at the very least he should do it at that point) It looks to me like your argument is that AlphaZero is mafia because he set himself up to bus sandroba but then just decided not to. I could buy this if there was any hope of keeping sandroba alive, but there clearly wasn't? Like, why does this make AlphaZero mafia when what you (Mocsta) did, defending sandroba and looking for alternative wagons, presumably comes from town? How is what AlphaZero did any scummier or more mafia motivated than what you did? Please understand that I'm not saying this means AlphaZero is town, by any means. Just that I don't think this is any reason for him to be mafia. Do you have any other reasons? Because this seems very weak at best. And at a glance, it's your only reason. | ||
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AlphaZero
Korea (South)759 Posts
On June 13 2024 13:28 Trfel wrote: Mocsta, can I break this down with you? If there is something I am misunderstanding, please point it out. It is very possible that I am missing something. You think AlphaZero is mafia for how he posts about sandroba but doesn't end up voting for him, right? Basing this off of post #3410. Why would AlphaZero, as mafia, share so many suspicions about his mafia partner sandroba and then not bus him when it becomes obvious sandroba is being lynched and sandroba gives up? (I mean, good mafia play is to bus him before it becomes hyper obvious, but at the very least he should do it at that point) It looks to me like your argument is that AlphaZero is mafia because he set himself up to bus sandroba but then just decided not to. I could buy this if there was any hope of keeping sandroba alive, but there clearly wasn't? Like, why does this make AlphaZero mafia when what you (Mocsta) did, defending sandroba and looking for alternative wagons, presumably comes from town? How is what AlphaZero did any scummier or more mafia motivated than what you did? Please understand that I'm not saying this means AlphaZero is town, by any means. Just that I don't think this is any reason for him to be mafia. Do you have any other reasons? Because this seems very weak at best. And at a glance, it's your only reason. and this is why he is mafia. | ||
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AlphaZero
Korea (South)759 Posts
cause there is no doubt. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
On June 13 2024 13:16 Trfel wrote: contextually yes;thats probably a good distillation.Mocsta, why is die_meatbaby town again? Your posts seem to indicate that she is town because AlphaZero is mafia? Is this a "the two wagons won't ever both be mafia" thing? firstly my world was flipped upside down, and im viewing oats read of the game as legit (who was pro DMB) then i read sandroba filter and am viewing the interactions with vivax as scummy. In that world, who is the partner.. could DMB/VIvax be a couple scum team? I just havent seen the game like that, and world upside down or not, being a married person myself i just dont see it regardless. so im thinking 1 of dmb or viivax. whatever az says of sandroba, my internnlisation was that he was pro-sandroba like me. so when i filtered sandroba to get a feel if anything indrect linked to DMB, i noticed the push-pull with az i was like this is weird because i dont recall.. but ctrl+f reveals all i then went through alphazero filter and was like whoah, this has been going on for way too long. extremely scummy. just the right amoutn of tension to pick a side.. only mafia does this when the noose is not on the neck. so if you ask me to logic why DMB is a town read. i would say. DMB is a leaning town read by PoE & i cant see DMB/Vivax as a scum team. thats the best i can give you | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Maybe I am bad for thinking this way. I will keep thinking about it. But to me, it feels well within Mocsta's town range. | ||
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scott31337
United States2979 Posts
Then vote for him. | ||
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scott31337
United States2979 Posts
Fucking for someone if you believe they are mafia | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9389 Posts
On June 13 2024 13:20 AlphaZero wrote: could be, i have guilty of a fewmy read on sandro evolved since the tier post (he started posting again) and my reasons for not wanting to lynch him yesterday are in my filter, which apparently you have read. The second part you have in red is a comprehension fail, I am saying scott is voting with you. i really dont see the fail though and i have re-read multiple times "scott (he) is not considering mocsta as mafia who also did not vote for sandro, and in fact was the most vocal opponent of the lynch and is in fact voting with him. the 3 ident lines all relate to "mocsta as mafia" | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On June 13 2024 13:35 scott31337 wrote: Dude, what?I'm done with your waffling AZ Fucking for someone if you believe they are mafia Why are you so upset with your scumread for not voting? Even if he's town, what's wrong with him waiting until later to vote? Especially given that he's at work? And all that aside, he's clearly not waffling, and I don't think this is worth getting upset over? | ||
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