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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On June 11 2024 14:47 Oatsmaster wrote: Why do you want to keep Sandro alive so much actually? He’s been utterly useless to town Oats. You are right about sandro. I 100% am with you. But we have to rethink if we are right on dmb and rayn. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On June 11 2024 16:17 Trfel wrote: Do you think it is good still? Yes. It obviously does not make sandroba lock mafia. BUT In a fast catch up. It is weird that sandroba sees something that makes him go: "Hey rsoultin and Oats could be a mafia team" And then not much later goes: Town: Oats Mafia: Rsoultin It just contradicts this earlier post you made in a catchup of so many pages. If it is throwaway, why post it? He is limiting his post count and still contradicts in that low post count. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On June 11 2024 16:14 Trfel wrote: I guess I can go back and respond to this. If you don't agree that's fine but I'll try. It's totally understandable for someone to misinterpret something and make a wrong claim and realize it and retract their claim. This isn't what raynpelikoneet did. When sandroba and I pointed out that he was misreading sandroba's post, instead of changing his view, raynpelikoneet modified his argument. See here:Raynpelikoneet's initial argument: - Sandroba said that if rsoultin/Koshi is mafia, Oatsmaster could be mafia (implying this is more likely). Then, sandroba said he thinks rsoultin/Koshi is mafia, but didn't think Oatsmaster is mafia Becomes: - Sandroba said a pointless association read, it's pointless because it only matters if someone is town, and sandroba thinks that person is mafia The latter isn't wrong, but it's a much weaker argument. However, this change did not affect raynpelikoneet's read on sandroba or his confidence in this case. Town in this spot would re-evaluate given the new information. Note that raynpelikoneet's third point is literally nonsense. Sandroba said "I have no idea how to read rsoultin so it helps that Koshi replaced in, here are the reasons Koshi is mafia: (reasons)" and took that to mean "Koshi is mafia because I have no idea how to read rsoultin" which is simply not what sandroba said? The end result is you have a three point case where raynpelikoneet literally said the first point doesn't mean anything on its own, the second point is quite weak, and the third point is objectively not true. But raynpelikoneet still believes it, very strongly, after being shown these things. fuck you that's definitely not what happened at all. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On June 11 2024 15:59 Mocsta wrote: what are you saying here.. that you will vote rayn and/or dmb this cycle? I think DMB. I now fully believe we have mafia we are blind towards, and mafia we cant unsee. And for some reason it is perfectly split between the townies. (Well your team has more townies so that is why I consider our team has 2) | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On June 11 2024 16:22 Koshi wrote: Yes. It obviously does not make sandroba lock mafia. BUT In a fast catch up. It is weird that sandroba sees something that makes him go: "Hey rsoultin and Oats could be a mafia team" And then not much later goes: Town: Oats Mafia: Rsoultin It just contradicts this earlier post you made in a catchup of so many pages. If it is throwaway, why post it? He is limiting his post count and still contradicts in that low post count. yes literally fucking this!!!! why the hell does he even need to make that point of oats beingn mafia with rsoultin in the first place if he doesnt think it is true?????? i mean like if you casually post along the thread it is fine but he was not casually posting along the thread, he was doing a catch up which is basically "these points i find important when i am reading along the thread". why is it important oats can be mafia with rsoultin if he doesnt think oats is mafia in the first place?????? | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On June 11 2024 16:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: fuck you that's definitely not what happened at all. It's how he perceived it. So be nice. He is trying to explain his view. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Gonna quote this one more time for clarity.Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list. That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list. Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? First paragraph, he literally says in the second paragraph that it doesn't make sandroba mafia. If you choose to interpret this point as being strong, I can't stop you, but I don't think it is very strong, and raynpelikoneet doesn't, either. I don't even really think it's true tbh, but that's more subjective and I don't feel like arguing about it. Second paragraph I discussed a few posts previously. Third paragraph I discussed a few posts previously. Note that this is the reasoning that raynpelikoneet is using to explain his vote on sandroba. And raynpelikoneet was defending sandroba not long before! So this reasoning has to be strong enough to make sandroba the most suspicious person, and also override his previous town lean/town read on sandroba. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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AlphaZero
Korea (South)759 Posts
On June 11 2024 16:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: AZ is deliberately misrepresenting this mason thing. how so? | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On June 11 2024 16:25 Trfel wrote: Gonna quote this one more time for clarity. First paragraph, he literally says in the second paragraph that it doesn't make sandroba mafia. If you choose to interpret this point as being strong, I can't stop you, but I don't think it is very strong, and raynpelikoneet doesn't, either. I don't even really think it's true tbh, but that's more subjective and I don't feel like arguing about it. Second paragraph I discussed a few posts previously. Third paragraph I discussed a few posts previously. Note that this is the reasoning that raynpelikoneet is using to explain his vote on sandroba. And raynpelikoneet was defending sandroba not long before! So this reasoning has to be strong enough to make sandroba the most suspicious person, and also override his previous town lean/town read on sandroba. On your last paragraph, I believe town!rayn can switch his read based on tje case he made. I know Vivax would confirm this. Classic rayn. He can tunnel somebody an entire game of such a read. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On June 11 2024 16:25 Trfel wrote: Gonna quote this one more time for clarity. First paragraph, he literally says in the second paragraph that it doesn't make sandroba mafia. If you choose to interpret this point as being strong, I can't stop you, but I don't think it is very strong, and raynpelikoneet doesn't, either. I don't even really think it's true tbh, but that's more subjective and I don't feel like arguing about it. [...] Note that this is the reasoning that raynpelikoneet is using to explain his vote on sandroba. And raynpelikoneet was defending sandroba not long before! So this reasoning has to be strong enough to make sandroba the most suspicious person, and also override his previous town lean/town read on sandroba. First thing. That's not what i said. I said his reads list in itself doesnt make him mafia. But when you couple it up with the fact he needed to say if rsoultin is mafia oats could be mafia, the reads list doesnt even hold truth of what he is thinking anymore. I have never defended sandroba during D2. Hell you yourself used this as an argument of me being mafia!!!! Now i am mafia for not defending sandroba and defending sandroba??? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I'm wondering how you can think this is an indication that sandroba is mafia? It's fairly common for people to post any and all associatice reads they think of, even if they don't match their current game view. I personally don't think this is helpful, but I acknowledge that other people do it anyway. So how is it super incriminating when sandroba does it? Also, even if I were to agree with you on this point, I believe your first point to be weak (you admitted this already) and your third point to be nonsense, as I have described. As a result, I think your case is very weak, even if I were to agree on the second point, which I don't. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
Can we all agree on this? Before we look for the third? | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
I think we should keep rayn alive and undisturbed today. | ||
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AlphaZero
Korea (South)759 Posts
On June 11 2024 16:33 Koshi wrote: Sandroba/DMB/+1 Can we all agree on this? Before we look for the third? IM not sure on Sandro. I think DMB is likely. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On June 11 2024 16:33 Koshi wrote: No, we clearly do not all agree on this? If we agreed, we would be lynching sandroba instead of looking for alternatives?Sandroba/DMB/+1 Can we all agree on this? Before we look for the third? | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On June 11 2024 16:35 AlphaZero wrote: IM not sure on Sandro. I think DMB is likely. Yes. Just like we are not sure about DMB. But let's argue which of these 2 is most likely today. Really like the way you guys approached Oats. Except 1-2 adhoms it was enjoyable to read. There is for sure a lot of town in your team. | ||
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AlphaZero
Korea (South)759 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
On June 11 2024 16:36 Trfel wrote: No, we clearly do not all agree on this? If we agreed, we would be lynching sandroba instead of looking for alternatives? No you would be lynching DMB... | ||
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