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On June 10 2024 11:54 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 11:47 Trfel wrote:
Die_meatbaby, do you have a read on scott31337 yet?
Either way though, look at it this way:
1. Scott31337 is town. This means that town spent the vast majority of day 1 focusing on town wagons (Kelsi3r and scott31337), so mafia didn't have to do anything but sit there and watch. In this context, does AlphaZero's play (huge push for lynching scott31337, to the point of great frustration) make sense? Yes it's theoretically possible, but it's so much simpler for AlphaZero to just be town. Mafia players (alignment) don't tend to go through tons of extra work if they don't have to.
2. Scott31337 is mafia. Why on earth would AlphaZero spend all day pushing his scum buddy scott31337 against so much resistance? And even if this is what happened, if he was trying to bus scott31337, then why wouldn't scott31337 give up, since he knows he is being bussed? It's theoretically possible for them to both be mafia and for things to play out like they did but it's not realistic at all. I still believe scott is somehow town. I said it before most of the time we have t vs t lynch on d1. I will tomorrow take time to filter everybody reread the game and make a list post. For now I will go to sleep. You can't honestly tell me you are going to read 111+ pages tomorrow? That's simply not realistic. Plus filters on top?
This is the kind of thing I find suspicious.
"sorry I've been inactive I will catch up now"
"I'll have more time tomorrow and will play properly"
"stuck at work, tomorrow I will be here"
"now I will have real time to play"
"sorry work was busy so I will go to sleep and reread the game tomorrow"
"I'll try more when more people are active"
"I'm sorry I didn't play yesterday due to work, I'll start playing as soon as the night phase is over"
"I'll post my scumreads before the night ends"
"oops my nap was too long, [random names of people who might be mafia with no reason]"
"I'll have a lot of time the next two days"
"tomorrow I will filter everyone and reread the game and post my reads"
When does it end?
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On June 10 2024 12:08 Oatsmaster wrote:
Vivax mocsta slam final answer But you won't vote for Vivax?
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On June 09 2024 12:35 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:32 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:25 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:
The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. help me out, im being dumb dumb the only reason i can see is this from marv https://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?page=66#1302like.. why cant mafia have wagoned kelsier to save scott equally? i get in marv of rsoultin, he is expecting the most likely answer is double-town wagon; yet, why cannot it not be an effort to save scott equally? It‘s beneficial to take sides as mafia here. Or maybe look undecided. They only have two buffets to choose from and don‘t have to be active so there‘s zero downside to being active, preferrably on the side of the one who‘s going to remain unflipped. Without accounting for players who are time constrained or just don‘t care enough. i see which feeds into my ongoing concerns with how the kelsi3r train was building i dont want to blanket discard how d1 unfolded for you; heuristically for me, its really hard to not acknowledge the complexities of having 1/3 of town to barely post for the 24hrs before lynch. it makes it hard for me to then follow your interpretation. i am in agreement with the other post that there should be options outside of scott tomorrow though. Right ? Wouldn‘t make much sense after a majority decided to spare him. My next favourite would be the rsoultin slot because theirs was one of the deciding votes. Not necessarily to lynch but definitely to consider. For example, what is this? It doesn't make sense to lynch scott31337 because the majority kept him alive, so instead we should look at the rsoultin/Koshi slot for helping keep scott31337 alive? Which only has weight if scott31337 is mafia? But remember, it doesn't make sense to lynch scott31337?!?!
Just too many suspicious things to lynch them all 
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Hey Mocsta, can you talk to me for a bit? I feel like I'm going insane and need help to not do that ><
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On June 10 2024 12:38 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 12:29 Mocsta wrote:
Why does everyone keep posting combos
We don't have the flips for association
We have the marv flip. Trfel suddenly pushing mislynches and ignoring the NK and generally not looking very believable. AZ sitting around like some kung fu master sorting people into japanese fighting game tiers. Oats being Oats. How did I ignore the night kill?
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On June 10 2024 12:36 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 12:30 Trfel wrote:
Hey Mocsta, can you talk to me for a bit? I feel like I'm going insane and need help to not do that >< look I can It's going to be review the case though right? That's something will have to wait till I'm back from work I'm actually getting incredibly tilted, I'm looking at things and trying to figure things out and posting my thoughts, but pretty much everything I say is either ignored, disagreed with for no reason, or disagreed with for blatantly illogical reasons. It's frustrating the heck out of me, and I have no idea how to get past it.
Maybe I could lynch the people who are acting like this, but it's a lot of people and they may not be mafia? So that's not a good method at all.
Maybe I could take a break, but I don't think things will be any different when I return.
I really really rely on having a sounding board, like someone to check my sanity, but if my "sounding board" says I'm insane, without reason, every time, then it's pretty counterproductive.
I'm trying to simplify my suspicions into concise arguments, can you help me figure out which of these (if any) make sense? My view is that if the reasons are legit, I should be able to state them very simply.
die_meatbaby: seemingly no drive to solve the game or contribute, constantly hiding behind excuses
Alakaslam: said marvellosity is mafia but then later said he is town, said scott31337 is mafia, and that's literally it (for clarity, the reason is that he isn't drawing conclusions about the game)
raynpelikoneet: seems to want to talk but doesn't want to figure anything out
sandroba: lack of activity/involvement
I'll even not talk about Vivax for now, can't put it concisely enough.
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On June 10 2024 12:48 Vivax wrote:
Basically Trfel tried to set himself up as the successor to marv just in time for the nk.
Mighty sus. He was his biggest obstacle. What do you mean?!
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Vivax, can you talk to me? Even if just a little?
I'm willing to work with you here but that seems like the last thing you want to do. And honestly I'm just confused as to why.
If you don't agree with what I'm saying, can you just tell me why? If I'm wrong, it'd help to know, that way I can at least try to adjust.
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On June 10 2024 12:57 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 12:45 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 12:36 Mocsta wrote:On June 10 2024 12:30 Trfel wrote:
Hey Mocsta, can you talk to me for a bit? I feel like I'm going insane and need help to not do that >< look I can It's going to be review the case though right? That's something will have to wait till I'm back from work I'm actually getting incredibly tilted, I'm looking at things and trying to figure things out and posting my thoughts, but pretty much everything I say is either ignored, disagreed with for no reason, or disagreed with for blatantly illogical reasons. It's frustrating the heck out of me, and I have no idea how to get past it. Maybe I could lynch the people who are acting like this, but it's a lot of people and they may not be mafia? So that's not a good method at all. Maybe I could take a break, but I don't think things will be any different when I return. I really really rely on having a sounding board, like someone to check my sanity, but if my "sounding board" says I'm insane, without reason, every time, then it's pretty counterproductive.
I'm trying to simplify my suspicions into concise arguments, can you help me figure out which of these (if any) make sense? My view is that if the reasons are legit, I should be able to state them very simply. die_meatbaby: seemingly no drive to solve the game or contribute, constantly hiding behind excuses Alakaslam: said marvellosity is mafia but then later said he is town, said scott31337 is mafia, and that's literally it (for clarity, the reason is that he isn't drawing conclusions about the game) raynpelikoneet: seems to want to talk but doesn't want to figure anything out sandroba: lack of activity/involvement I'll even not talk about Vivax for now, can't put it concisely enough. I feel ya and see that tilt play out Step back is my suggestion cos town culture has been set and you are seeking more than it seems willing to give. It may not change but you may be less frustrated. I'm not going to be offer more than that right now sorry dude I am wondering if this town ignore environment started with mafia or town. I'm guessing town because it spans to too many player. So it piques my interest whom is perpetuating it unnecessarily (e.g. association flips) It's hard to say, there's been a lot of anti-town play. Some of it has to be from mafia but some of it is likely from town as well.
Honestly I think marvellosity was the thing that was barely keeping everything together.
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Maybe the reduced posting style is better after all. Maybe it makes people more willing to read your posts and take you seriously if you aren't posting so darn much.
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Mocsta, first, Grackaroni doesn't read the thread, and second, don't use blue, that's for hosts only ><
@Vivax, it's not odd because I asked for his trust. He took a leap of faith. I think it's quite reasonable.
I've posted on die_meatbaby and raynpelikoneet, I'm just wondering why you think they are town?
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On June 10 2024 13:08 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 13:01 Trfel wrote:
Maybe the reduced posting style is better after all. Maybe it makes people more willing to read your posts and take you seriously if you aren't posting so darn much. can we ditch the cases for a second what do you view as the significant puzzle pieces in this game? im asking as that may unlock what is holding back town from uniting. e.g. sandroba is a puzzle piece with a lot of push-pull tension scott is another controversial push-pull are there other parts of the game like this? I think scott31337 has (by existing) caused the most division, and it's not close.
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On June 10 2024 19:45 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 19:36 Mocsta wrote:On June 10 2024 19:21 Koshi wrote:
Pretty sure scott is 100% town. No way he puts marv in black before shooting him.
In addition to everything I said about him and marv townreading him That's a good point too I think that’s really easy thing to do as mafia. So I disagree. In all honesty I don't even get how this could possibly mean anything about scott31337?
For example, I know I've dropped an end of night case on the person I was shooting before. Why would scott31337 not null-read marvellosity as mafia? Truly confused.
@Mocsta, I don't ever think lynching for info is worth it tbh. I think we'd gain a lot less clarity than expected.
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AlphaZero, is scott31337 still your preferred lynch today? I'm curious if anyone else is worth considering from your perspective?
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On June 10 2024 12:02 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 11:54 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 10 2024 11:47 Trfel wrote:
Die_meatbaby, do you have a read on scott31337 yet?
Either way though, look at it this way:
1. Scott31337 is town. This means that town spent the vast majority of day 1 focusing on town wagons (Kelsi3r and scott31337), so mafia didn't have to do anything but sit there and watch. In this context, does AlphaZero's play (huge push for lynching scott31337, to the point of great frustration) make sense? Yes it's theoretically possible, but it's so much simpler for AlphaZero to just be town. Mafia players (alignment) don't tend to go through tons of extra work if they don't have to.
2. Scott31337 is mafia. Why on earth would AlphaZero spend all day pushing his scum buddy scott31337 against so much resistance? And even if this is what happened, if he was trying to bus scott31337, then why wouldn't scott31337 give up, since he knows he is being bussed? It's theoretically possible for them to both be mafia and for things to play out like they did but it's not realistic at all. I still believe scott is somehow town. I said it before most of the time we have t vs t lynch on d1. I will tomorrow take time to filter everybody reread the game and make a list post. For now I will go to sleep. You can't honestly tell me you are going to read 111+ pages tomorrow? That's simply not realistic. Plus filters on top? This is the kind of thing I find suspicious. "sorry I've been inactive I will catch up now" "I'll have more time tomorrow and will play properly" "stuck at work, tomorrow I will be here" "now I will have real time to play" "sorry work was busy so I will go to sleep and reread the game tomorrow" "I'll try more when more people are active" "I'm sorry I didn't play yesterday due to work, I'll start playing as soon as the night phase is over" "I'll post my scumreads before the night ends" "oops my nap was too long, [random names of people who might be mafia with no reason]" "I'll have a lot of time the next two days" "tomorrow I will filter everyone and reread the game and post my reads" When does it end? Also, in case it wasn't clear, each one of the quotes above has a direct match in die_meatbaby's filter. I paraphrased slightly for clarity but the sheer number of excuses is striking. Die_meatbaby seems willing to do anything besides actually play the game and figure out who is mafia.
Maybe it's a bad reason but if all else is equal, I just don't want to lose to this? Not sure when but unless something changes dramatically, it's hard to see a way around flipping or blue action'ing this slot at some point.
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On June 10 2024 20:52 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 20:13 Trfel wrote:
AlphaZero, is scott31337 still your preferred lynch today? I'm curious if anyone else is worth considering from your perspective? I’m worried I’m tunnelled so I’m going to take a step back. I want to spend some time reviewing things when I get a chance. Not sure when that will be. I would probably lynch him if I had my way because then I am either visited or I can move on and clear my mind a bit. I’m trying to do that anyway as basically everyone except Alan and vivax are not interested in lynching him and that’s not great company to keep. I’d be interested In a Sandro, dmb or Rayn lynch right now. But I’m backing your play here and seeing how things develop Gotcha, makes sense.
@die_meatbaby, so we are in agreement that scott31337 looks scummy all the time, right? May I ask, why does that mean he is town here? Couldn't he actually just be mafia and still looking scummy?
Very glad sandroba is back in the hope that he is town. Sandroba could provide some missing sanity. Ofc if he is mafia then never mind ><
@Vivax, just to clarify, it sounds like you are having some pretty serious health issues? Like 100% serious not joking?
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On June 11 2024 02:46 Vivax wrote:
Yes I have health issues but I rant about them I don‘t want special treatment.
Trfel would you consider yourself a honest and genuine person ? To the latter, yes?
To the former, it's not so much a sympathy thing, I mean I do sympathize and hope you feel better soon, but I still need to attempt to find mafia and do the best that I can with that. I was trying to get at, if you are unable to play properly, I'd like to know, because I don't want to hold you to expectations that (regardless of alignment) you aren't going to be able to meet.
Seriously though, take care of yourself, and hope you feel better soon
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On June 11 2024 02:55 Vivax wrote:
What do you mean yes? Genuine and honest persons don‘t exist everyone lies.
I think you puff up your posts a lot. How so?
Like I don't want to get too off track but if you're getting at something I can humor you for a bit.
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On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Middle point is actually very interesting. Good find.On June 11 2024 03:00 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 02:57 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 02:55 Vivax wrote:
What do you mean yes? Genuine and honest persons don‘t exist everyone lies.
I think you puff up your posts a lot. How so? Like I don't want to get too off track but if you're getting at something I can humor you for a bit. You try hard to look like a saint I mean. It seems you try to act positively but I don‘t buy it and I believe you are more interested into burying the truth about people with it. Others or yourself Okay, I mean I disagree but you have a right to your opinion. Why are you telling me this?
I try to phrase things in a way that is as accurate as possible, I want to leave the least ambiguity and provide the most direct and clear phrasing. Basically I want to deal with as few misunderstandings as possible, if me being more accurate means that there are fewer misunderstandings so we can discuss the actual content more, then that's worth it for me.
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On June 11 2024 03:11 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 03:04 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Middle point is actually very interesting. Good find. On June 11 2024 03:00 Vivax wrote:On June 11 2024 02:57 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 02:55 Vivax wrote:
What do you mean yes? Genuine and honest persons don‘t exist everyone lies.
I think you puff up your posts a lot. How so? Like I don't want to get too off track but if you're getting at something I can humor you for a bit. You try hard to look like a saint I mean. It seems you try to act positively but I don‘t buy it and I believe you are more interested into burying the truth about people with it. Others or yourself Okay, I mean I disagree but you have a right to your opinion. Why are you telling me this? I try to phrase things in a way that is as accurate as possible, I want to leave the least ambiguity and provide the most direct and clear phrasing. Basically I want to deal with as few misunderstandings as possible, if me being more accurate means that there are fewer misunderstandings so we can discuss the actual content more, then that's worth it for me. I‘m telling you this because my bullshit detector is detecting a push on me which isn‘t in good faith but I also refuse to believe you are mafia so you are hiding the true reason for wanting me lynched. I'll tell you the true reason, but can I get a few answers first?On June 10 2024 21:20 Vivax wrote:
I think Koshi is mafia now but that means I have to re-evaluate the entire game now.
Because him townreading scott for that stupid reason reeks a lot of tmi. Were you able to re-evaluate? Is this:On June 11 2024 00:15 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 00:06 sandroba wrote:
I'm around page 70, the beginning of N1. My worldview right now is:
Town:
trfel
mocsta
oats
scott
Likely town:
vivax
AZ
Mafia is here:
rsoul, rayn, dmb, slam rsoul ? Aside from that it‘s not bad. Koshi/dmb/slam/rayn/mocsta is my newest pool. But it‘s thrown together I‘m busy moving and I won‘t post boxes. Still where your head is at?
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EPT
