EPT[N] Uninspired Mafia - Page 2
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
| ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 11:04 Holyflare wrote: If you think those posts are anything like this one then I'm afraid your reading comprehension needs some brushing up on. It's a quite obvious thing. Maybe it's a nuance to mere mortals but from an experienced veteran of mafia such as myself, the evidence you've provided is of a guy that is butt hurt but not cocky and certainly not saying he's above the entire site because everyone is so much worse than him. Game 1 where he was mafia, read his QT. You can see it was all a facade and every time he got called out he was afraid it was the end of him. That's extremely understandable for someone new to mafia to feel when someone is pointing out your inconsistencies. See game 2 where he was more concerned with fairness more than anything and, you know, calmly giving reads even when called out. Your quotes literally show a guy defending himself with matter of fact points in a cocky way. See game 3. He gets called out. Everything people taught him in game 1 was to ignore the suspicion and fight back as if it meant nothing. Here he is trying but with the telltale way of fake bravado. No way he thinks he's above everyone on TL after 2 games where game 1 he thought he played badly but everyone complemented him and game 2 he got killed n1 and I don't think he picked out any of the mafia team at that point (could be wrong but don't think so). He's classically over compensating and he's played his hand too early. I think I'll choose agree to disagree as far as the differences in playstyle game-to-game go. I don't think it is as significant or as alignment indicative as you seem to think. With that said, we're not coming to wildly different conclusions and I think having different reasons for the same outcome is good in the end. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 11:23 Jockmcplop wrote: I have read incognito's guide. At the moment I'm looking for typical mafia stuff, apologetic posting, if anyone has an agenda or is making alot of posts without contributing, inconsistent weird logic. That stuff is suspicious. #1 priority as town for me is finding scum. LOL So after reading Incognito's guide what did you learn? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 11:42 Jockmcplop wrote: ps I'm going to spend a while reading the thread so may not reply immediately. Who would you suggest I look at first? I mean, you said you had reads incoming so maybe post those first? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 12:08 Jockmcplop wrote: bugs what are you my dad? So far every post you make in my direction is telling me what or how you think i should post or getting upset because I was away when I said I would be away. Anyone piquing your interest? ##vote Jockmcplop You were wrong earlier, you're definitely the most interesting person so far. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
The most suspicious thing to me at this point is this post in response to me: BC seems town He's wrong about me but he's genuinely hunting I think. FF could be scum. Just turned up to claim town and hasn't said anything at all. VE is the most blatant town to me so far. His posts are sensible and he's actually contributing. MZ reads town Can't read HF Bugs is interesting. Lots of questions no answers. Probably the most scummy out of everyone, just from the number of questions he's asked people that are irrelevant or pointless. I don't really have any strong scum reads at the moment. I'm always wary of promises like "I'll be back later in a couple hours to post my thoughts" because that's an easy way to get away with not actually posting anything in the end. I expect townies to actually follow through on that without being prodded. Except, Jock always has excuses for not contributing, like literally every other post. (he's "freestyling" and "something might come out of it"??) When he did actually contribute, like the above, it's just a list of nothing significant/summarization followed by "oh I actually have no scum reads" I also don't understand how me asking him questions has turned into coaching all of a sudden. The line of questioning about reading the newbie guide had a purpose, just apparently you, who admonished me for my poor reading skills, don't understand it. Maybe you should go back and read that exchange again and see if you can put 2 and 2 together as to why Jock's response was scummy. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Speaking of non-participants, FecalFeast, mind explaining why you sheeped on MZ, and why you've subsequently been absent from the thread? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 19:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Liiiike if FF were the other wagon and not MZ that would just be super. I'm with you here, FF is setting off alarm bells for me what are your thoughts on no-lynch this cycle? I've actually always been of the opinion that a no-lynch on day 1 is actually really good for town because it reduces the variability, especially in low post count games like this one. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 20:01 Koshi wrote: No lynching is horrible. People need to get out of tunnel. Info is good. Only good if you dont lose lynch later. info is great, but IMO mislynching day 1 is not worth whatever minimal info you get if the game only has a few pages of posts/low participation. You still get info on the NK, for instance. It's worth thinking about from a balance perspective for this game as well. Usually 13p games are 10 townies and 3 mafia, and that already tends to be a bit town-favoured here. This is a 14 player game so the only options are 11/3 or 10/4; the balance will be swingy either way (I think 10/4 might work somewhat better with more town blues but who knows what the hosts decided) If it's 11/3, mislynching is probably okay because town has lots of room for mistakes and the no lynch could be done on a different day, but I think it's still better to do it early. Worst case (noting starts of phases) N1: 10/3 D2: 9/3 N2: 8/3 D3: 7/3 N3: 6/3 D4: 5/3 MYLO N4: 4/3 -> lose No-lynching at any point gives you an extra cycle. If it's 10/4, worst case looks like this: N1: 9/4 D2: 8/4 N2: 7/4 D3: 6/4 MYLO N4: 5/4 -> lose Again, no-lynching at any point gives us an extra cycle. If there's a vig in the setup and they miss, we lose a half-cycle, so MYLO becomes LYLO and no-lynch has no benefit (I think, unless my pea brain did something wrong) | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 20:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well Koshi is town. Idk what to think about jock honestly. I read him like grack did earlier but i dislike his re-entry a lot. Thankfully you can murder him without me. Bugs still scum. for how much our opinions align it's remarkable you think I am scum | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 20:33 Pandain wrote: @Wherebugsgo what were you trying to get from asking Jock about incognoto's guide? You were very insistant on it and it seemed like the most useless questions I've ever seen in my life. I wanted two things; one was to see whether Jock's tone and response style would be natural and the other would be whether he would actually tell me something believable. Given that Jock is very new I would expect some synthesis of Incognito's guide because he would have been bound to have read it recently. If he's town and someone in the game is asking him, I'd expect him to take the time to understand why (and reread if necessary) especially when I was indicating to him that if he didn't shape up he'd likely die. His response that followed afterward indicated that he probably lied, because even if you skim that guide literally the #1 takeaway for townies is to establish innocence. This is also why I phrased the question the way I did. Emphasis mine: On January 09 2012 15:49 Incognito wrote: ... II. Town
... Priority #1: Establishing Your Innocence So, you know how to look for mafia and are ready to smoke them out. But unfortunately, just knowing how to find mafia is not good enough. The other part of the equation is convincing the town that you’ve found them. While you may be correct, it takes more than your own vote to properly seal the deal and kill off the mafia. As a townie, your number 1 priority is to establish your innocence. ... by itself I don't think the lie is super alignment-indicative, but the fact that Jock actually answered that question about the guide but chose not to provide reads, in response to the same post where I specifically asked for them, is. He continued to attempt to stall for time afterward and has since disappeared. There was also no point for town Jock to ignore posts and ask HF if HF thought he's out of character compared to when he was mafia (what kind of question is that? it accomplishes nothing and doesn't even make sense, HF's post was clearly about Jock being out of character when compared to being town) and saying this: Or I was taking the piss because the first page or so is always boring.... Reads incoming I've got some time now rather than just coming out with them. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 20:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: I dont really even think you have any opinions since you write a lot of words but dont really have any hard opinions. hey, to each their own. I just gave you enough information to figure out what my opinions are in the post you just replied to; just because I don't advertise my opinions the same way you do doesn't mean I don't have them. Also you should probably already know I'm a verbose poster and often ask people questions directly to actually get them to participate. Half of the players (literally) haven't voted yet, so if you have any better ideas for changing that I'd be glad to help. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 20:56 VisceraEyes wrote: What do you define as "good"? Preserving the number of town? Reducing the likelihood that we hit town with the lynch? To what end? If we don't use the lynch, mafia don't get reduced. That's the short and long of it. Mafia are NOT going to NOT kill someone, so no, I don't think we should no-lynch. this: On May 01 2019 20:23 wherebugsgo wrote: info is great, but IMO mislynching day 1 is not worth whatever minimal info you get if the game only has a few pages of posts/low participation. You still get info on the NK, for instance. It's worth thinking about from a balance perspective for this game as well. Usually 13p games are 10 townies and 3 mafia, and that already tends to be a bit town-favoured here. This is a 14 player game so the only options are 11/3 or 10/4; the balance will be swingy either way (I think 10/4 might work somewhat better with more town blues but who knows what the hosts decided) If it's 11/3, mislynching is probably okay because town has lots of room for mistakes and the no lynch could be done on a different day, but I think it's still better to do it early. Worst case (noting starts of phases) N1: 10/3 D2: 9/3 N2: 8/3 D3: 7/3 N3: 6/3 D4: 5/3 MYLO N4: 4/3 -> lose No-lynching at any point gives you an extra cycle. If it's 10/4, worst case looks like this: N1: 9/4 D2: 8/4 N2: 7/4 D3: 6/4 MYLO N4: 5/4 -> lose Again, no-lynching at any point gives us an extra cycle. If there's a vig in the setup and they miss, we lose a half-cycle, so MYLO becomes LYLO and no-lynch has no benefit (I think, unless my pea brain did something wrong) | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 21:15 Holyflare wrote: Why didn't you just say this in the first place? :p because I found it unlikely that explaining it to you would change my read on you whereas now we have some evidence that Pandain cares about figuring out what's going on | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 21:23 Holyflare wrote: Have you read Incognito's mafia guide? Emphasis mine: + Show Spoiler + Priority #1: Establishing Your Innocence So, you know how to look for mafia and are ready to smoke them out. But unfortunately, just knowing how to find mafia is not good enough. The other part of the equation is convincing the town that you’ve found them. While you may be correct, it takes more than your own vote to properly seal the deal and kill off the mafia. As a townie, your number 1 priority is to establish your innocence. Why? Establishing your innocence does three things: It gives you a credible platform from which you can push your agenda It reduces the mafia’s options for pushing their agenda - they can’t attack you without some serious consequences It reduces the number of viable mafia candidates - if the town thinks you are innocent that’s one less person to worry about To elaborate: 1) It is hard to get people to listen to you if they are unsure of your motives. There are times where townies will ignore persuasive evidence based on an (irrational) fear that you might be pulling the wool over their eyes. Establishing your innocence allows you to focus on hunting the mafia instead of wasting energy defending yourself. not sure if you're trolling me or telling me you think I'm scum. You and rayn both seem to have trouble reading me properly and at least if this game were hand balanced I'd have to chalk it up to one or both of you being scum. Too early to tell for sure though  Anyway, my problem has always been that I establish my innocence regardless of alignment so it's really hard for me to tell why someone thinks I am scum. I don't recall anyone on the forum standing out as "oh if that person's in the game they'll definitely be able to tell my alignment!" for example. I've only been lynched a handful of times IIRC. Jock ff is a fine pool to lynch into. If you want to no lynch do it later when we have more complete information to solve the puzzle. Silly to do it when there's only posts to talk about. Yeah on reread I'm fine with either of these lynches. #3 and #4 would be Rels and MZ, in that order. Besides the 2 MIAs everyone else seems to have a decent chance of being town to me. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
1. MZ claimed to be "obviously standing with the Jock suspicions crowd" but never actually voted 2. FF, as far as I can tell, doesn't play like this (i.e. actively lurk) as town. The only other factors I think might be relevant are that FF originally signed up as /replace and changed to /in, so worst case benefit of the doubt is that FF is low on time, but probably best to just pressure and see what happens 3. On reread rayn looks terrible. I actually was in agreement with some of rayn's opinions early on (#125) but on reread it seems most of the things rayn accuses me of are projections. Rayn's only actual scum read is me and it makes no sense + rayn hasn't committed to a vote yet with less than 6 hours remaining in the day. my kill order ATM is 1. Jock 2. FF 3. Meapak 4. Rayn Throw Rels instead of one of those people if both 1. Pandain/grack are right about Rels avoiding early game and 2. Rels shows up for some bs vote before EoD. | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
rayn seems like you disagree with HF on pandain, care to explain why? | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 01 2019 23:39 Vivax wrote: MZ stuff was just bleh and uninteresting. Why does it make him mafia if he says that he's glad nobody claimed scum yet?It's a wonky thing to say and that's about it. Maybe Bugs and FF can explain how saying that makes people scum cause I don't see it. And if you're going to say that town MZ should be glad that people scumclaim, imagine how glad mafia MZ would be if it was townies scumclaiming like in 99 % of the cases, given that you are implying you would vote them off for those claims. In summary, wary of FF cause not shitposting and looking more like a serious mafia FF with that vote. Vivax you showed up once purely to push Jock and chainsaw defend MZ? You manage to spend a whole lot of the very little time you spent on talking about this extremely minor point when we had already pretty much shifted off MZ, why? It’s almost like you didn’t actually read the whole thread... | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 08:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: bugs why is grack not mafia D1 here? he’s not mafia because I agreed with his post about Jock being town based on tone. I recall there were a couple of posts he made that really echoed my own opinions. I’d point them out but I’m on mobile I haven’t played much with grack though | ||
|
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 02 2019 08:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: I literally said i am going to answer this after Pandain gives his answer as i dont want to answer for him if he happens to be mafia. Which of this did you miss? not sure, I’m reading on mobile and you and HF have literally a page or two of just direct chat. If you’re around for deadline just prep a post and post it before then. Good chance one of the three of us dies if we’re all town. I’m not sure if all 3 of us are but occam’s razor suggests that to be true | ||
| ||
