[M][T] Secret Hitler, Act I, Take II

On October 30 2018 08:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is also always going to be two policy cards in the deck when the deck is reshuffled, so you can never be 100% sure of all of the cards.

On October 30 2018 08:58 kitaman27 wrote:


Why not go the resistance route and just roll with the guys that are providing positive results? Sure a facist policy isn't going to end the game right away, but wouldn't it be better to ride the initial liberal policy pushers as much as possible until they give us a reason to doubt them?

On October 30 2018 09:06 prplhz wrote:
Is it a good idea to make the chancellor someone who is easy to read?

On October 30 2018 17:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
happykrogan who'd you pick rn if you made a choice?

On October 30 2018 08:58 kitaman27 wrote:


Why not go the resistance route and just roll with the guys that are providing positive results? Sure a facist policy isn't going to end the game right away, but wouldn't it be better to ride the initial liberal policy pushers as much as possible until they give us a reason to doubt them?

On October 30 2018 09:59 Grackaroni wrote:

I'm kind of tempted to guess that you are fascist and Kita is hitler.

I'm also a shitty scum hunter though so meh. I like this format because people can't kill me very easily.

On October 30 2018 18:16 happykrogan wrote:


Maybe Kitaman, because I thought this was towny.



It's not a strong townread, but It's the best thing I have so far.


I understand where you come from here, but I doubt they would try to communicate so obviously.

On October 30 2018 19:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No i dont think its a scum-scum interaction unless kitaman is hitler and prplhz is "claiming mafia" to him but i think it is extremely unlike because it is just plain out a stupid thing to do, as you'd want to do it in a way that noone else catches it and look what happened.

On October 30 2018 20:10 happykrogan wrote:
That's the main reason I started to wonder if Kitaman was a good choice.

On October 31 2018 01:38 Conversion wrote:
Maybe we should just elect Grackaroni

On October 31 2018 01:41 happykrogan wrote:

why?

On October 31 2018 00:01 Grackaroni wrote:
Let me just say it this way:

If I was Hitler and I saw someone say "Maybe we should just elect Grackaroni" I would assume that guy was a fascist.

On October 31 2018 01:38 Conversion wrote:
Maybe we should just elect Grackaroni

On October 31 2018 02:08 Conversion wrote:
I don't even know who you're planning to vote for chancellor

On October 31 2018 02:43 byj wrote:
Screw my position in the rotation list =\

On October 31 2018 03:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Technically we can swap with 4 players, but like... there is also hitler. You know scum win if hitler is elected as chancellor after i dont remember how many fascist policies. Do you get what that means? Or what may happen?

On October 31 2018 06:19 Rels wrote:

I don't know if you've ever played with rayn, but that is not something I would townread him for.

On October 31 2018 08:43 prplhz wrote:
@happykrogran What do you think about Rels' idea of rejecting governments to buy time for making reads?

On October 31 2018 09:08 prplhz wrote:

Because you're up for election.

On October 31 2018 09:57 prplhz wrote:

Verdict pending but I don't think I'll make much of it.

On October 31 2018 10:12 prplhz wrote:

Because maybe you could have answered something else that would have been more immediately useful to me. I don't know in advance what your answer may be.

On October 31 2018 12:43 byj wrote:
Oh and is voting also done by PMing both hosts or only [UoN]?

On November 01 2018 01:28 Conversion wrote:


I'm rejecting the first one, optimal or not. I'm not actually going to reject every single government from here on out.

Be back later, short break today. Interested to see votes, majority passing or not.

On November 01 2018 00:38 Conversion wrote:
In all seriousness, I like to always pass the first go, in any similar game like mafia when possible, to reveal where votes went and talk about that to get more information and give me one more round to work with, since drawing a random card as a policy isn't the worst thing ever, neither is adding one to the election tracker early on.

Whether that's optimal or not, I'm not quite sure but I do like doing it. Considering we can get RNG'd and get a F/F/F draw (unless this is impossible, someone correct me please if it is), I don't see why we're in any rush to elect this particular government.

On November 01 2018 00:46 prplhz wrote:

I had expected him to be more aggressive towards the people who reject his government.

On October 31 2018 23:17 byj wrote:

No, but I don't have any concrete feelings yet, some people make more sense than others, but it's nothing concrete yet. The lack of lynching doesn't help considering we won't get alignments until at least 3 Fascist policies have passed. Though for what it's worth if I were to just blindly pick I'd have a 3:4 chance of getting Scum

On November 01 2018 02:35 prplhz wrote:

You didn't do the opposite, you did like a middle of the road thing that didn't push me in either direction.

On November 01 2018 02:50 prplhz wrote:
Well pretty much I don't really know if the 24% is such a useful number.

On November 01 2018 02:56 Conversion wrote:


Because we don't run the risk of a crapshoot government passing a fascist policy in the event that you are not town?

On November 01 2018 03:07 prplhz wrote:

Election tracker and we can't just elect the same dude in two consecutive elections, it's a rule.

On November 01 2018 00:38 Conversion wrote:
In all seriousness, I like to always pass the first go, in any similar game like mafia when possible, to reveal where votes went and talk about that to get more information and give me one more round to work with, since drawing a random card as a policy isn't the worst thing ever, neither is adding one to the election tracker early on.

Whether that's optimal or not, I'm not quite sure but I do like doing it. Considering we can get RNG'd and get a F/F/F draw (unless this is impossible, someone correct me please if it is), I don't see why we're in any rush to elect this particular government.

On November 01 2018 06:19 happykrogan wrote:
Conversion did a very good job in totally confusing me...
I don't get what he wanted to say, but I guess it doesn't matter as his theory was under a wrong understanding of the game mechanics...?

He still lied though

On November 01 2018 07:20 Conversion wrote:
also you fixating on a point on me "lying" is really inane and forced trying to generate content when no one's paying attention to you

also I hope we draw F/F/F and descend in to chaos

On November 01 2018 07:19 Conversion wrote:


you could have read nothing but my last post and gotten that conclusion

congrats!

On November 01 2018 08:17 Grackaroni wrote:

lol.

I don't know what Conversion's deal is right now but I think he's probably town.

On November 01 2018 11:33 Grackaroni wrote:

I think the tone that he has can be surprisingly hard to fake as mafia it's not how mafia players usually approach the game.

On November 01 2018 11:53 Conversion wrote:


so what makes you so sure that I was lying instead of literally forgetting what I wrote?

On November 01 2018 18:36 happykrogan wrote:

If you're forgot what you wrote and then write a contradicting statement, you have to be scum. If it really was your opinion, that we should vote no, because of information we can get out of the votes, you wouldn't say you don't care about the votes later.You would still have that opinion, whether you remember already writing it or not.

So even if you forgot what you wrote, one of the statements is still false, therefore you lied.

On November 02 2018 23:51 Conversion wrote:


interesting.




@HK Can I get some clarification on what team would make sense, since you are so steadfast in believing that I am scum through my lying nature?

Would it be me-byj, or me-rels?

On November 02 2018 23:35 Grackaroni wrote:
After lots of paranoia I'm actually going to vote NO on this team.

I don't trust the way Rayn/HK are both pushing the idea that the scum team is just the two lurkers byj/rels, even though neither of them have done anything specifically scummy, and I think that probably one of Rayn/HK will be scum.

I'm uneasy about the fact that it doesn't seem like I can pass the team that I actually think is town in Me/conversion, but this team is already set to pass between Rayn/HK/prplhz/Conversion voting yes.

Also, despite actually posting, Prplhz isn't showing any sign of thinking about people's alignments and I don't like that rather than trying to evaluate my alignment he posts this nonsense:




I feel pretty uneasy about this atm so instead I'm going to try to push through Conversion's team. And I actually feel a bit better about Kitaman for the post questioning why byj is scummy, so I'm ok with trying Kitaman's team as a fallback.

On November 03 2018 00:17 Conversion wrote:


I have a pretty big problem with this-- you seem to have (or had) a rather strong read in me being a facist, and you threw out two other names (byj, Rels). if you can't see a logical connection just because we don't mention each other, are you saying the entire team lies in byj/conversion/rels? If you're not willing to make a deeper read, or connect the dots, why are the three names in there? Are you just objectively evaluating persons individually without a thought to the larger team at hand (this is ok, I'm just trying to understand how those names got there)

or do you see a world in which I am not facist-- in which case, which of the two remaining (Byj, rels) is more facist to you, and what do you think the team will be? as @Grack mentioned, just having your entire pool in AFKers/barely playing people isn't great

On November 03 2018 00:25 kitaman27 wrote:


Could you give me the spark notes version of who you view as facist and more importantly, why? If you're feeling better about conversion and would pass a grack/prpl team, I'm struggling to get an idea of who you think the bad guys are.

On October 30 2018 22:15 Rels wrote:

As opposed to what ? Hard to read ? What's the benefit of that ?

On October 31 2018 06:19 Rels wrote:

I don't know if you've ever played with rayn, but that is not something I would townread him for.

On October 31 2018 06:27 Rels wrote:

Grack one is he one where he says prp could be scum and kita Hitler. If I rzmember correctly. Not at home so if you don't find it I'll find it later

On November 01 2018 04:46 byj wrote:

Trying to hint at you knowing who Hitler is?

On November 03 2018 06:24 prplhz wrote:

i listed stuff because rayn asked me to

i don't think scum benefit from doing 1v1 in their first election

On November 03 2018 06:26 happykrogan wrote:

You don't list stuff if you don't believe in them

On November 03 2018 06:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:

How does this actually happen? Assuming ofc this team gets voted down.

On November 03 2018 06:45 happykrogan wrote:
I think whatever I choose it will feel like the wrong thing in the end...

On November 03 2018 07:29 Rels wrote:

because that's exactly the way it is. I didn't have anything specifically against you two, apart frm that feeling that the game started too easily.

On November 03 2018 08:59 byj wrote:

How do you guys feel now? Shouldn't I be practically scum now, due to not talking but voting?

On November 04 2018 01:08 prplhz wrote:
Or wait who's up for president next

On November 04 2018 01:28 Grackaroni wrote:
I got L/L/F and I discarded the fascist policy.

On October 25 2018 04:46 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:

The game consists of 8 players in total:

1 player is Hitler.
There are 2 other fascists who know Hitler. Hitler does not know who the fascists are.
There is no QT for any of the fascists. All communication is in-thread.

On November 04 2018 05:11 byj wrote:

Oh you're right

So I guess they'll have to find out with communication onto the same person, should be no other way to differentiate between hitler and fascist otherwise

On November 04 2018 05:01 Rels wrote:

I have nothing more than yesterday

On November 03 2018 06:10 Rels wrote:
I think you posted that "I don't really know what Grack is" post just because you didn't know how to answer my question

On November 03 2018 07:52 happykrogan wrote:

How convinced are you that one of us is scum?
And we had two no-voters so I actually wouldn't call it a landslide. Especially because if I remember correctly noone was really suspicious of either of us.
Also what could scum have done that doesn't make them look suspicious, expect what you two did? Also that did make people suspicious.

On November 04 2018 08:03 Rels wrote:

I think you're town so communication is over now. Not talking to someone that thinks I should somehow know things out of thin air

On November 04 2018 08:01 byj wrote:

Scroll up? I literally just said the opposite? Either way I PM'd [UoN], let's see what he has to say.

First I want an answer from you

On November 04 2018 08:56 Grackaroni wrote:
Anyone watching blizzcon?

On November 04 2018 09:09 byj wrote:

https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/538533-secret-hitler-act-i-take-ii?page=25#481

NAI? So what do you think I planned?

Only watched the BW stuff, but think it's all over now
Fixed quotes now

On November 04 2018 09:17 Rels wrote:
I feel more strongly about prp and kita being scum. Don't know about the third

On November 03 2018 05:32 Rels wrote:

yeah this is a very stupid accusation

On November 04 2018 09:16 Rels wrote:

No.
I had this idea thinking about the first vote at some point but I dont think it was a strong point

On November 04 2018 11:00 byj wrote:

Interpret it first
(and I don't know what NAI means )

On November 05 2018 20:05 byj wrote:

Thanks <3

<3
Probably the game before that


What makes you think they don't serve a purpose?



I was hoping for people to come 'defend' my plan, or try to not push me too hard. There would be no reason to do so, so I can assume the people doing so are Scum trying to gain my credit. Especially now in hindsight that Rels and Conversation seem to be easy to push as Scum instead (doesn't mean I think they're innocent either, they flatout ignored what I did =\).

On November 01 2018 04:46 byj wrote:

Trying to hint at you knowing who Hitler is?

On October 31 2018 02:43 byj wrote:
Screw my position in the rotation list =\

On November 04 2018 03:09 byj wrote:

How come? If Scum is up early they can just stick to the liberal policies, since it's likely that by the end there will only be fascist left, no?

On November 04 2018 05:11 byj wrote:

Oh you're right

So I guess they'll have to find out with communication onto the same person, should be no other way to differentiate between hitler and fascist otherwise

On November 05 2018 22:51 byj wrote:

Is getting reads onto people not a plan?

There are only 3 Scums, so 'having a solid scumread' against 3 as Scum would be sub-optimal, since then you'd pretty much expected to vote for everyone else. So max. 2 townies, but likely more, if you're Hitler, or pretending to play against other Fascists.

I really don't get the logic in that conclusion, care to elaborate?

On November 05 2018 20:05 byj wrote:
I was hoping for people to come 'defend' my plan, or try to not push me too hard. There would be no reason to do so, so I can assume the people doing so are Scum trying to gain my credit. Especially now in hindsight that Rels and Conversation seem to be easy to push as Scum instead (doesn't mean I think they're innocent either, they flatout ignored what I did =\).

On November 05 2018 22:53 byj wrote:



Why would Hitler need to out himself?

On November 05 2018 23:12 happykrogan wrote:

You already asked this question and I already answered a few days ago.

On November 02 2018 23:38 Conversion wrote:

In terms of who's the most liberal in my eyes (as in, I'd elect them Chancellor), it'd be rayn = krogan > everyone else, even if I'm salty about krogan doing nothing but calling me a liar just from how government 1 went.

On November 05 2018 02:53 Conversion wrote:
I also strongly dislike kitaman disclaiming everything he does with a “I’m not sure”

Like he wasn’t sure on the last government, he’s not sure on who he’s going to nominate for a government.

Also his reasoning for me being scummy (I was cool with passing Grack/prplhz for information, calls me out on it, but when others made a comment relating to it he doesn’t address it) is pretty weird. I don’t understand how I’m scummier than prplhz when I made a good call out on his behavior, which he disregared bc “meta”

Just seems weirdly convicted on certain things, and overly eager to share that he is uncertain— like he’s overly accentuating his lack of certainty

On November 03 2018 00:06 Conversion wrote:
oof.. I really don't like the second part of his filter. His first part was just a lot of defending himself. IDK if that makes him a facist though?



what other things were you thinking about prplhz? confused as to why you didn't just post what your thoughts were and instead went straight back into one liners for a bit after

On November 06 2018 00:28 Conversion wrote:
obvious and non-dangerous read.. so what does that make Kita's read, and everyone literally barring two people (rayn, and possibly Grack)?




wow such a non obvious and dangerous lead, amirite Krogan?

Also how are you going to say my statement about Kita is not true? He has a good amount of posts that literally just say that he is unsure about something. Care to point out in quotes and filters why it's not true, instead of dismissing me randomly?

Also don't put words in my mouth to fit a narrative. I didn't like certain parts of prplhz's play, never scumread him strongly. The worst case scenario in my head was Grack scum prplhz unsure, but I strongly townread Grack (imagine you actually tried to read my filter, and ask if you were unsure as to what I was insinuating. hard task, eh?)



I thought if prplhz was scum! in my world, I'd still pass the government because I thought liberal!Grack most likely pass 1/1 L/F to give us information anyways (we ended up getting L/L passed on prplhz)

On November 05 2018 02:53 Conversion wrote:
I also strongly dislike kitaman disclaiming everything he does with a “I’m not sure”

Like he wasn’t sure on the last government, he’s not sure on who he’s going to nominate for a government.

Also his reasoning for me being scummy (I was cool with passing Grack/prplhz for information, calls me out on it, but when others made a comment relating to it he doesn’t address it) is pretty weird. I don’t understand how I’m scummier than prplhz when I made a good call out on his behavior, which he disregared bc “meta”

Just seems weirdly convicted on certain things, and overly eager to share that he is uncertain— like he’s overly accentuating his lack of certainty

On November 06 2018 00:37 Conversion wrote:
also let's not forget that when I asked you to actually logically place a facist/facist team, you basically refused to do so




?? do you have some edgy, dangerous, non-obvious reads for us yet? or are you just going to tunnel in more and take the easy way to call ambiguous players facists in hopes that you can coast this game?

On November 06 2018 00:52 Conversion wrote:


also terrible read, I get really angry every game

On November 06 2018 01:02 Conversion wrote:


fixed quoting

On November 06 2018 01:02 Conversion wrote:
ready, happykrogan? I am now going to put you on my scummy list until the end of the game, because you lied. how fucking ironic. oh, sweet, SWEET irony.

On November 06 2018 00:54 Conversion wrote:
here krogan, I'll do the meta diving for you:

https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/390080-tl-mafia-database

CTRL +F Conversion

look through my town games and my one scum game and tell me why your meta read is garbage. I'll wait.

On November 06 2018 01:04 happykrogan wrote:

Lol. Yes that would be funny.
Sadly I say inactivity + a few generic posts is worse then not writing anything

On November 06 2018 01:02 Conversion wrote:


both times I say inactivity + making oneliners to prove he does something. This mainly for the other guys because you, as scum, know that I am town anyway

On November 06 2018 01:03 Conversion wrote:


I don't need your pity, because I'm honestly not that pissed right now. In the past hour you've lied, made a shit meta read that you couldn't even verify which takes all of 2 minutes, and still refuse to make any logical connections to facist connections.

Welcome to the no longer liberal list, bud. Thank god I elected rayn over you.

On November 06 2018 01:29 Conversion wrote:


I'm fixated in the fact that your read progression has stayed in the same circle because you are conveniently tunneled onto 3 people, have not re-evaluated anything, randomly threw the idea that byj was Hitler (so he now evolves within your convenient 3)

are you going to read what I wrote, or are you going to be smug about how you didn't lie because you added a supporting statement on your main reason why you scumread Rels?

On November 06 2018 01:29 happykrogan wrote:

If you want some... It is very likely that you are in a team with either of the two.
You are picking on me for scumreading them just for inactivity despite me saying additional things to both of them. Especially about byj I said a lot more reasons why I think he is scum after talking to him

On November 06 2018 01:29 Conversion wrote:


I'm fixated in the fact that your read progression has stayed in the same circle because you are conveniently tunneled onto 3 people, have not re-evaluated anything, randomly threw the idea that byj was Hitler (so he now evolves within your convenient 3)

are you going to read what I wrote, or are you going to be smug about how you didn't lie because you added a supporting statement on your main reason why you scumread Rels?

On November 06 2018 01:37 happykrogan wrote:

Also to my convenient three:
I talked to byj when he said stuff
I talked to rels when he said stuff
I postponed reading you again because it is very hard for me to reconsider you objectively. So I tried to win some time to get some mental distance from the lying accusation. I tried my best again today.

On November 06 2018 01:39 Conversion wrote:
anyways, my state of the game:

elect always: rayn
elect high priority: grack
neutral: kita
try not to elect: prplhz, byj, happykrogan, rels

I'll come back later so I'm not spamming it up more than I already have

On November 06 2018 00:48 Conversion wrote:


???

I dug through your filter four times now and I have no idea what your "plan" was

Care to elaborate?

On November 06 2018 02:52 byj wrote:

I don't need to have a town read on anybody to say they're easier to push than me???

On November 06 2018 05:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:

You only vote no to this government if you think at least one of kitaman / Rels is townier than Conversion.

On November 06 2018 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Do you seriously think Grackaroni had the thought that he'd backpedal from nominating Conversion? Because i don't think that's a possibility given how strong he implied his read was (i agree Rels was never gonna get nominated most likely). Because if that was the case this would have happened:
1) Grack thinks: "okay i put my scumbuddy Conversion up there" (at least i agreed with his townread on Conversion back then)
2) "Well this is a super terrible thing to do because Rels isn't gonna be nominated anyways so i have to WAIT FOR HAIL MARY AND CROSS FINGERS THAT SOMEONE COMES AND TELLS ME TO NOMINATE SOMEONE ELSE"
3) rayn vouches for prplhz -> "THANK GOD I WOULD HAVE DONE A TERRIBLE MISTAKE FULLY KNOWING I DID ONE IF RAYN DIDNT DO THAT"

really kita? really? that's not how mafia plays.

On November 06 2018 07:19 kitaman27 wrote:


Yes, it's usually fine to sheep another player if you think they are town, as long as you develop reads of your own eventually.

That being said, I do find it weird that you seem to lean fascist on Conversion and say that you don't want to read me until tomorrow, yet are planning to pass this one through.

On November 01 2018 18:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I would agree with you if this was about something that really matters, like if conversion had a scumread on someone and then forgot about it. But i dont think gameplaywise technical things go to that category and if he wants to discuss those things as scum i'd think he'd be sure to keep his story straight (because he can basically have any opinion he wants and it doesnt necessarily make him scum -- thats why this long discussion about technical things sucks, just play the game and make reads, thats priority #1).

You'd be surprised how dumb things people can actually do. Some games ago we had a player who didnt know how their role worked, even after they were told to go re-read their role pm....

On November 06 2018 07:35 happykrogan wrote:

mainly this post made me unsure first. Rayn is a better player then me and doesn't think it matters so it probably doesn't matter.

On November 06 2018 10:42 Rels wrote:

well, as I've told you earlier, my scum game is very good. Did you check my past games like I told you to ? This never happens when I'm scum I never change my mind without a reason

On November 03 2018 05:40 Rels wrote:

Usually true, not true at all for me. Read my past games for proof.

On November 06 2018 21:29 happykrogan wrote:

I read through a few random games, but only town and only like the first page of the filter to check for this.

If you want me to read your scum games I can do that too.

On November 06 2018 21:35 happykrogan wrote:
My problem with reading Conversion is that I want him to be scum, which is not a good basis for a read.

I will think about what he said about the convenient three. He is not right in the fact, that I read anyone scum only for inactivity, but maybe I saw everything the three did as: what I will read now is from scum, so I thought it was scummy no matter what they said.
I try my best but this is only my third game so it is probably easy to step in those traps.

On November 07 2018 06:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
happykrogan have you played secret hitler before?

On November 07 2018 12:42 Rels wrote:


The bolded is ridiculous. First, what possible gain would scum would have to lie about something so easily disproved ?

Second, there is a disconnect between your two posts. In the first, you say to have assumed that fascists know each other, but you're not 100% sure. In the second post, you're so sure that fascists know each other, so you accuse someone else of lying about it. That makes no sense.

On November 08 2018 13:55 Rels wrote:
going to sleep. Grack, Conversion, byj, could you say that you will vote YES to a Grack / Rels team if kita / Grack doesn't pass ? So rayn is happy

On November 07 2018 13:39 Rels wrote:
yeah having finished reasing byj and happykrogan's filter, I think byj is town and happykrogan is scum. I expected the opposite to happen when I started reading them. p:

I quoted the more damning things above about happykrogan. But even more than that, he posts a lot, but most of his reads are very surface level. He has a lot of posts, but not a lot of reads that are interesting. His "byj is Hitler" post above is one of the exception, as in it's a pretty interesting one, but as said above it doesn't match with his previous stance. His post about prp D2 is also a good read, but he ends up dismissing it and voting YES to the prp team for no apparent reason.

The rest is pretty bland. Attacking me because I made lazy oneliners and because my thought process didn't show in the posts I wrote, even though, I told him multiple times that it's actually a town tell for me. Attacking byj about his "plan". The stuff he attacks Conversion with is pretty weak too.

On November 08 2018 22:14 happykrogan wrote:
After reading both filters one time, I am kind of neutral on both.
So I'll try to do it again later today.
Kita hasn't really anything that screams either town or scum.
The way rels thinks he has found a scumteam is rather towny (because he built it up from the beginning with adding more pieces - even though I still don't really know what his problem with kita was, he seems to already have had one), but he has a few arguments against me that aren't that great.
Also this one I didn't mention yet:

the bolded let it look like I attacked him for it, after he said it doesn't apply to him, what I didn't do (I just told Conversion, that I didn't scumread you for inactivity, but wasn't attacking you again)
I don't know if that makes him anything. Also now I think that the rayn blowing his thought out of proportion thing could be true, so right now I actually don't prefer kita over Rels, but I plan on looking into both again.

On November 08 2018 22:16 happykrogan wrote:

To clarify, I don't have a townread on rels yet, because of some arguments against me, that I don't think are vaild.

On November 09 2018 00:12 kitaman27 wrote:
Does this accurately reflect everyone's opinion so far? You really should justify why you prefer one candidate over the other because we can use that information later on. I'm talking about prpl, byj, krogan and conversion specifically.

kitaman27 - Yes
raynpelikoneet - Yes to one or the other
byj - Yes, but could change
prplhz - Learning Yes
happykrogan - Yes to both pairs (?)
Grackaroni - ?
Conversion - Leaning No?
Rels - No

On November 01 2018 00:32 kitaman27 wrote:


lol Conversion is so crazy that he's probably not Hitler.

On November 07 2018 12:42 Rels wrote:


The bolded is ridiculous. First, what possible gain would scum would have to lie about something so easily disproved ?

Second, there is a disconnect between your two posts. In the first, you say to have assumed that fascists know each other, but you're not 100% sure. In the second post, you're so sure that fascists know each other, so you accuse someone else of lying about it. That makes no sense.

On November 09 2018 06:02 kitaman27 wrote:


I didn't want to say it, but I think it has become pretty clear that you're all racist against our benevolent overlord. It's really not your fault though. The nasty prejudice has passed down from generation to generation and has become so ingrained into the fabric of our society that you find yourself unable to overcome it. I have a dream that my children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their bucket shaped head, but by the content of their character.

On November 09 2018 06:35 kitaman27 wrote:


If he thinks I'm mafia, but doesn't bother to explain why, doesn't that earn him scum points, not town?



Why are you applying this logic to Rels, but not me? I've been even more open attacking players whose votes I'd need if I were mafia.

On November 09 2018 06:35 kitaman27 wrote:


If he thinks I'm mafia, but doesn't bother to explain why, doesn't that earn him scum points, not town?



Why are you applying this logic to Rels, but not me? I've been even more open attacking players whose votes I'd need if I were mafia.

On November 09 2018 06:42 kitaman27 wrote:


But isn't it relevant that he never bothers to push the argument until the moment it's a Rels vs kita scenario on day four?

On November 09 2018 06:35 kitaman27 wrote:


If he thinks I'm mafia, but doesn't bother to explain why, doesn't that earn him scum points, not town?



Why are you applying this logic to Rels, but not me? I've been even more open attacking players whose votes I'd need if I were mafia.

On November 08 2018 05:36 kitaman27 wrote:


There is a 35.5% chance regardless of who is elected.

You can change your vote, but you really shouldn't. It's just going to pass to Rels afterwards who will get downvoted, then passed to rayn who has the same chance of getting FFF.

You said yourself that grack is the only player you trust. I don't think you'll ever get elected so this really is the best you'll get.

On November 09 2018 06:47 kitaman27 wrote:


It's mostly a couple of one liners about me and prpl being together though after the day one events.

I really can't imagine a town Rels seeing prpl waffling around suggesting that I be elected because I'm "nice" with no other good reason and then deciding "Ah ha! I've find the scum duo".

Like how does that even make sense?

On November 06 2018 10:41 Rels wrote:

I'm pretty sure I have a few more posts on my filter regarding kita. Regardless I'll make a bigger post if he's ever considered for a chancellor

On November 09 2018 06:51 prplhz wrote:

Didn't just everybody do that?

You townread krogan all game, above Grackaroni, why did you choose Grackaroni now?

I don't get why people townread Grackaroni for passing me 2L. I sort of understand his reasoning to do it (didn't want to risk a fascist policy if he could force a liberal), but that is no reason to town read him. It's more an excuse for not wanting to pass me 1L1F and get a better read on me on top of a liberal policy.

On October 30 2018 22:12 Rels wrote:
I would prefer to not elect a president right away to have more time to discuss. Like in resistance

On October 30 2018 22:15 Rels wrote:

As opposed to what ? Hard to read ? What's the benefit of that ?

On October 30 2018 22:18 Rels wrote:

Ok. But I don't understand you townread kita in the first place for being nice. When apparently you think hes a good scum player

On November 09 2018 08:13 happykrogan wrote:
But isn't it the dumbest thing to fake that?
But I don't know where he is coming from.

On November 09 2018 09:06 Rels wrote:

OK for the second point.
For the first point, I don't see how it gives him any town cred ?

On November 10 2018 01:08 Rels wrote:
concerning kita, you all have to know that he's a hard to catch scum. My first really salty loss came from a game where he was scum and smurfing, this one. He made really reasonnable and logical posts all game, and nobody really suspected him until he won by himself. And I see the same this game. He's making reads based on good looking, logical reasons. My problems is that sometimes, when he writes a post and wants to justify a choice, like a read and a vote, I can feel that he's making up a reason on the spot. And sometimes, this reason that seems so logical, actually shouldn't make sense in his point of view.

Let's get to examples.


Here, he's saying that a reason to scumread Grack is that he wants to elect two people that are scummy to "pass the blame". But this doesn't shouldn't make sense because in his point of view, Grack, Conversion and I are the 3 bottom people of his list. He tries to justify it with the last sentence, but that doesn't solve the chicken and egg problem; Grack is scummy because he wants to elect scummier people with him; but he's probably not scum with a dude he wants to elect; so he shoudln't have been that low on the list in the first place.


This post is to justify his Grack / prp YES vote. Even though Grack is in the bottom of his list at first, then later in the middle tier; even though prp is also in his middle tier; he still votes YES. The correct play in his position with his reads would be to vote NO there, vote NO to Conversion's team, and have his team auto-accepted due to the 3 votes limit. But he voted YES. Most likely because his buddy prp was on the team.


Here he's justifying his Grack nomination. He's saying that "he thinks the plan to put the DT check in rayn's hands is a good one". The problem is, it doesn't make sense at all if he's town. The DT check makes sense for people outside of him, to have a failback plan in case kita is scum. But if kita is town, it means that:
- if a liberal policy is passed, the DT plan doesn't work
- if a fascist policy is passed, it means kita has gotten FFF; in that scenario, the chance of rayn also getting FFF are extremely low.
So he couldn't have thought that as town.

Fair disclosure, when pushed for some of these points, he explained them with reasonnable, logical answers. But I'm claiming that he couldn't have thought of them in the first place if he was town.

---

Another thing Conversion bought up yesterday and is very true. kita said multiple times that he knows one of the elected official is scum, which is a fact if he's town since there has been 5 elected people and he's not been part of them. He's hesitating between Conversion Hitler or prp fascist. This is a little weird to me since the fact points more at prp being forced to elect a liberal policy, but OK.

The problem with this claimed mindset is this:


He's claiming that Conversion is showing his allegiance to me. The problem is that he also thinks Conversion is Hitler, and Hitler doesn't know his buddies! This shouldn't make sense in his view of the game. I think that happend because he is forcing himself to keep his Conversion scumread, since if he would let it go he would have to scumread prp, which is probably the real Hitler. But in trying to come up with reasons to scumread Conversion, he created one that didn't match his claimed view of the game.

---

Finally, the hail mary yesterday. He faked some of my posts LITERALLY 1 MINUTE before the deadline, so there wouldn't be time for them to be fact checked. He later claim he was just messing with people, but that's a very convenient joke that could have make the difference between him being elected or not.

He's quoting a prp post first, but I think this post was trying to get one of Conversion, krogan or Grack to switch.

On November 10 2018 02:31 prplhz wrote:
What is checkable? Why is it good to downvote a government that passes a liberal policy? If we had all done like you, where would we have been, policy-wise? Are you proud that, by your own metric, at least one in four of your votes was good?

I sort of get how you don't play early game, I think you always do something like that, but painting yourself a hero because you do that makes no sense. And right now your cases seem to be just wild flailing, I don't really understand any of it.

On November 11 2018 03:30 kitaman27 wrote:
Because it's so obvious that you have a preference for Rels over myself based on your behavior the last 48 hours.

Meh, we're not going to accomplish anything arguing with each other. Lets wait until some else shows up.

On November 07 2018 06:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The possibility of drawing FFF is 6/8 x 5/7 x 4/6 which is approx 35,7%
So about 65% of the time we hit at least one liberal (well i'd stop right away if we get liberal anyways).

If we happen to hit FFF the deck is resuffled.
Second fascist policy goes to krogan who i believe is town, he gets the investigation. I would trust the result. krogan can investigate kitaman.
Third fascist policy goes to kitaman, in case he is town. If not then we will do something else but we know kitaman (or at least one of krogan / kitaman) is mafia.

Is there anyone who believes that krogan is mafia? Because in my opinion from the presidents (if you think someone is mafia there) Grackaroni looks the worst for not passing FL instead of LL (passibg FL to prplhz is the correct play there). That's not much, but still a possiblilty, i would find it more likely that mafia are just rels/byj/kitaman/(prplhz).

On November 07 2018 18:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I gotta go to work. kitaman i am going to vote yes to your team if you pick Grackaroni.
I am probably going to downvote rels' team regardless of what he does. He does make a little bit sense but i am sorry i just am not going to straight up trust anyone who starts playing a week after the game starts.

On November 08 2018 07:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no getting lucky anymore. All i care about is me getting the investigation so i find either conf scum or conf town (which will allow 100% win) so i am gonna vote yes to kita and if this doesnt pass for some reason then i am gonna do my hardest that your team passes. If this passes i am trying my hardest to downvote your team.

Idk, i am sorry of you are town but i have figured out a strategy that wins the game more likely than any other strategy, and every other strategy has downsides. As i said you should have played earlier if you disagree for "i wanna play" because i lose interest in games i have "figured out" already. Sooo... there is that. I dont need to know anything but that conversion is town and the dude i investigate is either town/scum. Thats it.

On November 08 2018 08:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:

The problem is there might be some dumb townspeople who can ruin this shit, so i'd rather take my chances on having two chances on passing one team before me than one. If you can convince people to accept you+grack over kita+grack then i can vote no here. It's up to you.