[M][T] Secret Hitler, Act I, Take II
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I'll bbl though-- still at work | ||
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On October 31 2018 09:59 prplhz wrote: Because you didn't know he was in it or because you had forgotten it? I didn't look and thought we could have a nice game but forgot who he was. I voted no pass to this anyways, see you all in 21 hours | ||
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Because the most chaotic way to play is to just topdeck after reaching 3 failed elections, and I will vote no to any government including myself being president | ||
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Whether that's optimal or not, I'm not quite sure but I do like doing it. Considering we can get RNG'd and get a F/F/F draw (unless this is impossible, someone correct me please if it is), I don't see why we're in any rush to elect this particular government. | ||
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On October 31 2018 12:42 byj wrote: Why though, even if rayn was Scum, he'd be 'forced' to enact a liberal policy from what he posted. Aside from the explanation on why I voted no, I don't quite like this questioning. Rayn isn't "forced" to do anything if he's scum/facist-- he can enact something and lie about it (making it him vs krogan, sending liberals into disarray, and trying to guarantee that Hitler/other Facist looks good) and still win the game. | ||
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On November 01 2018 01:06 kitaman27 wrote: Eh this explanation is a lot more scummy now that you lay it out. It would be one thing to ask for more time by failing a few and then eventually passing, but now that I think of it, a policy to reject all governments is really anti-town. On our first draw FFF would be like 24% (someone check my math?), as opposed to a 65% chance (11/17) of a fail from a single draw. That's really, really far from optimal. I'm rejecting the first one, optimal or not. I'm not actually going to reject every single government from here on out. Be back later, short break today. Interested to see votes, majority passing or not. | ||
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On November 01 2018 01:52 happykrogan wrote: How will votes on a government that didn't pass (on the first day at least) be more telling than a passed government? Like what can you get out of these votes that will help you to read people until you can vote for the next government? Because we don't run the risk of a crapshoot government passing a fascist policy in the event that you are not town? | ||
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why was that a bad idea again | ||
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On November 01 2018 03:06 happykrogan wrote: Thank you for the explanation... Could you please go ahead and give also an answer to my question you quoted there? I don't get anything out of votes, I get more time and eat an election tracker that matters very little to me | ||
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you got me dude I'm hitler | ||
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If you're going to semantically nitpick at something, do it well | ||
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yup I must be hitler | ||
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On November 01 2018 03:10 happykrogan wrote: Also it is likely that we get at least once fff. And if the two fascists that are not hitler get into government and enact fascist policies, we have three, which would let mafia auto-win if hitler gets in the government. So hitler could enact liberal policies to get in the town circle. 6/11 liberal/facist worst case scenario we get L/L/L L/L/L in the first two draws, leaving us having to enact 1 facist policy before the deck cycles (by discarding every government policy until a "random" one is chosen) so we are at 2/1 and the deck cycles. hitler infiltrates the "town" circle, and worst case scenario we're dumb enough to have a facist in there too. so then they throw away liberal policies to enact two facist ones, in which case we deserve to lose anyways for somehow building a town circle with a facist and hitler in there. in a less dumb situation, we have 2 liberals and hitler infiltrating this triangle. we pass two liberals and 1 facist again, and we are at 4/2. we now get an investigative power to peek into the triangle and a lot more information on who is liberal/facist based on conversation, and we go into the later phase of the game in a very, very good spot. why won't this work? | ||
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On November 01 2018 03:10 happykrogan wrote: Also it is likely that we get at least once fff. And if the two fascists that are not hitler get into government and enact fascist policies, we have three, which would let mafia auto-win if hitler gets in the government. So hitler could enact liberal policies to get in the town circle. this argument is "if liberals play bad and stupid facists win" yeah welcome to the game. | ||
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On November 01 2018 06:19 happykrogan wrote: Conversion did a very good in totally confusing me... I don't get what he wanted to say, but I guess it doesn't matter as his theory was under a wrong understanding of the game mechanics...? He still lied though you could have read nothing but my last post and gotten that conclusion congrats! | ||
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also I hope we draw F/F/F and descend in to chaos | ||
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On November 01 2018 11:26 happykrogan wrote: you might not believe me, but I actually think lying is a scummy thing to do. And you did lie, as you stated two contradicting things. Also I think this response is scummy. It doesn't fit into the careless attitude you showed, because you are clearly bothered by it. Also instead of explaining why you said what you said as town (what town should be capable of), you decided to attack me and my credibility, calling it an desperate attempt of generating content. Also you made this post, which I interpret as an attempt of making me look stupid Where I stated that trying to figure out your argument was confusing me (before I read your last post of course), which I admit was unnecessary to state as I already realized it doesn't matter anyways. But the way you attacked me on it, together with the second post, seems like scum trying to defend themself by making the person with the argument look bad opposed to trying to convince him that argument was flawed. so what makes you so sure that I was lying instead of literally forgetting what I wrote? | ||
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On November 01 2018 11:14 Grackaroni wrote: Cool. I'm probably going to pick either Conversion on Rels. why Rels out of curiosity? | ||
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On November 01 2018 18:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Anyways i dont think grackaroni should choose conversion as chancellor anyways since conversion is next in line for president. I agree with this statement, not sure if Rels should be the alternative though | ||
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I'm assuming I want to pass krogan or rayn into chancellorship-- is it going to pass though? | ||
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On November 02 2018 23:07 kitaman27 wrote: What's your opinion of prpl? I don't see him mentioned in your filter. Since you failed the pair yesterday, but are willing to pass today's team, does that mean that your original policy is no longer necessary? If you're voting yes today and you're on board with selecting rayn or krogan next cycle, does that mean you think the facist team is myself/Rels/byj? On November 01 2018 00:38 Conversion wrote: In all seriousness, I like to always pass the first go, in any similar game like mafia when possible, to reveal where votes went and talk about that to get more information and give me one more round to work with, since drawing a random card as a policy isn't the worst thing ever, neither is adding one to the election tracker early on. Whether that's optimal or not, I'm not quite sure but I do like doing it. Considering we can get RNG'd and get a F/F/F draw (unless this is impossible, someone correct me please if it is), I don't see why we're in any rush to elect this particular government. I'm not actually going to just be anti-liberal for the sake of it. I think enacting governments is a good way to get information, especially if we are up one right now and have a guaranteed +1 liberal policy barring any unlucky draws, or if one or both of krogan/rayn played us and passed a liberal card, in which case we won't be incredibly behind and it'll give us a look into getting more information as liberals. In terms of who's the most liberal in my eyes (as in, I'd elect them Chancellor), it'd be rayn = krogan > everyone else, even if I'm salty about krogan doing nothing but calling me a liar just from how government 1 went. | ||
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On November 02 2018 23:35 Grackaroni wrote: After lots of paranoia I'm actually going to vote NO on this team. I don't trust the way Rayn/HK are both pushing the idea that the scum team is just the two lurkers byj/rels, even though neither of them have done anything specifically scummy, and I think that probably one of Rayn/HK will be scum. I'm uneasy about the fact that it doesn't seem like I can pass the team that I actually think is town in Me/conversion, but this team is already set to pass between Rayn/HK/prplhz/Conversion voting yes. Also, despite actually posting, Prplhz isn't showing any sign of thinking about people's alignments and I don't like that rather than trying to evaluate my alignment he posts this nonsense: I feel pretty uneasy about this atm so instead I'm going to try to push through Conversion's team. And I actually feel a bit better about Kitaman for the post questioning why byj is scummy, so I'm ok with trying Kitaman's team as a fallback. Who would you have me vote (besides yourself) for chancellor? keeping in mind people will most not likely push me through anyways.. | ||
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On November 02 2018 23:47 Grackaroni wrote: He says me/prp are above you/byj/Rels. interesting. On November 02 2018 20:00 happykrogan wrote: I'm going to vote yes. I am not entirely confident in the team, but if I would only vote teams of two players I townread I would almost never vote yes. And Grack and prplhz are at least less scummy then Rels/Conversion/byj And whatever happens, we always get information out of it, so I generally prefer voting yes anyway. @HK Can I get some clarification on what team would make sense, since you are so steadfast in believing that I am scum through my lying nature? Would it be me-byj, or me-rels? | ||
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On November 02 2018 23:49 kitaman27 wrote: Fair enough. Do you have any opinion of prpl specifically? Let me take a look into his filter. I recall him being pretty neutral (and I historically can never read the dude correctly..) | ||
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On November 01 2018 02:46 prplhz wrote: It's that I don't have unlimited time and people were super mad. I'm thinking about some other things too, but I'm not ready to post. what other things were you thinking about prplhz? confused as to why you didn't just post what your thoughts were and instead went straight back into one liners for a bit after | ||
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On November 02 2018 10:00 prplhz wrote: I think it's acceptable if we already discarded 1L and 2F. also why is voting you contingent on what cards we drew? or am I missing/messing something up here | ||
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On November 03 2018 00:13 happykrogan wrote: My problem is that you appaer really scummy to me, but rayn who played way more than me (and is most likely town as he enacted a liberal policy where could have enacted a fascist one) and Grack (who I have nothing against except your joke/communication which was probably nothing) read you as town. So I am really torn right now. Also you look better now. I planned looking into you again when I have to(when you're the presidential candidate). That lying will bother me the whole game though... As for your question: Neither of them is more probable than the other, as you don't really mention each other. I have a pretty big problem with this-- you seem to have (or had) a rather strong read in me being a facist, and you threw out two other names (byj, Rels). if you can't see a logical connection just because we don't mention each other, are you saying the entire team lies in byj/conversion/rels? If you're not willing to make a deeper read, or connect the dots, why are the three names in there? Are you just objectively evaluating persons individually without a thought to the larger team at hand (this is ok, I'm just trying to understand how those names got there) or do you see a world in which I am not facist-- in which case, which of the two remaining (Byj, rels) is more facist to you, and what do you think the team will be? as @Grack mentioned, just having your entire pool in AFKers/barely playing people isn't great | ||
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On November 03 2018 00:26 kitaman27 wrote: I think it's scummy that Conversion was cool with passing grack and prpl through, yet when I asked him to justify a prpl read, he admits he hasn't really looked at him. Do you disagree with my reasoning that I want information, which is the primary reason I want to enact this government? Does that make prplhz scummy as well? | ||
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On November 03 2018 00:41 kitaman27 wrote: I disagree because literally any two players will give us information, considering only krogan and rayn have been elected and they can't be chosen. Doesn't it make more sense to get information AND vote for two players that have the best chance of passing a liberal policy? Now that you've read through prpl, does that change your mind about the vote? I think you made a solid point about prpl being "not ready to post.", which doesn't really make sense if you have something important to say unless you're laying a trap, which doesn't seem like prpl's style. I'm still pretty conflicted about whether I'm going to vote yes or no on this one. Theoretically speaking, if we don't pass this government (which I think has a higher likelihood of having minimum 1 liberal 1 facist), we get to me. I have a pretty uphill battle to climb to get my government passed-- if I pass Grack/prplhz which I feel somewhat okay about even if we pass a facist policy, I now can enact a government with rayn/HK on it to try and get another liberal policy through. If this government gets passed though, I think I still cannot enact rayn/HK (unless I'm misunderstanding the rules), which leads me to try and make a team with Grack or you, which I'm not sure people will pass. In the worst case scenario, we pass two governments and then, with almost no new information, have to decide on a randomized policy, or auto-passing the government, which I think is not a great spot for liberals to be in. | ||
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On November 03 2018 02:41 Conversion wrote: Theoretically speaking, if we don't pass this government (which I think has a higher likelihood of having minimum 1 liberal 1 facist), we get to me. I have a pretty uphill battle to climb to get my government passed-- if I pass Grack/prplhz which I feel somewhat okay about even if we pass a facist policy, I now can enact a government with rayn/HK on it to try and get another liberal policy through. If this government gets passed though, I think I still cannot enact rayn/HK (unless I'm misunderstanding the rules), which leads me to try and make a team with Grack or you, which I'm not sure people will pass. In the worst case scenario, we pass two governments and then, with almost no new information, have to decide on a randomized policy, or auto-passing the government, which I think is not a great spot for liberals to be in. clarifying this part here: pass a facist policy due to bad draw (f/f/f), or Grack is facist (draws l/f/f, discards l). worst case scenario both of them are facist/one of them is hitler | ||
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Like he wasn’t sure on the last government, he’s not sure on who he’s going to nominate for a government. Also his reasoning for me being scummy (I was cool with passing Grack/prplhz for information, calls me out on it, but when others made a comment relating to it he doesn’t address it) is pretty weird. I don’t understand how I’m scummier than prplhz when I made a good call out on his behavior, which he disregared bc “meta” Just seems weirdly convicted on certain things, and overly eager to share that he is uncertain— like he’s overly accentuating his lack of certainty | ||
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On November 05 2018 01:18 kitaman27 wrote: My new tiers for trustworthiness would be: tier 1: krogan, grack, rayn tier 2: prpl tier 3: byj, conversion, rels I think grack rejecting his own presidency is rather town looking considering the decent opportunity to pass FF. Now that byj has started posting more, I think he looks a lot worse by purposely withholding his reads and asking random questions that don't seem like they serve a purpose. I'm going to vote down the conversion team. For my presidency, I'd likely nominate krogan who I have a slightly better feeling on, compared to rayn, but I still haven't decided for sure. wow such a non obvious and dangerous lead, amirite Krogan? Also how are you going to say my statement about Kita is not true? He has a good amount of posts that literally just say that he is unsure about something. Care to point out in quotes and filters why it's not true, instead of dismissing me randomly? Also don't put words in my mouth to fit a narrative. I didn't like certain parts of prplhz's play, never scumread him strongly. The worst case scenario in my head was Grack scum prplhz unsure, but I strongly townread Grack (imagine you actually tried to read my filter, and ask if you were unsure as to what I was insinuating. hard task, eh?) On November 03 2018 03:06 Conversion wrote: pressed post.. whoops. in that case if we think prplhz is a hitler/facist combo, we veto this 100%, but I think the likelihood of it being 1 liberal 1 facist is much higher. I thought if prplhz was scum! in my world, I'd still pass the government because I thought liberal!Grack most likely pass 1/1 L/F to give us information anyways (we ended up getting L/L passed on prplhz) | ||
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On November 03 2018 01:21 happykrogan wrote: As I am conflicted about Conversion I don't really have someone I am convinced is a fascist right now. I have a few people I think are scummy and I would prefer not to vote. Conversion: Lying but I reconsider him when he is presidential candidate Rels: What Rayn said + being inactive but writing some easy to make oneliners when he is in thread Examples: I think Inactivity + a few generic posts is a lot more scummier than just not writing anything byj: less scummy than rels. posted nothing mentionworth except this: after I asked him to contribute more. The only read he has and it's an easy to make a read about one post. Generally my gameplan is not really to find scum, but town so I can vote them. But then I realized if I only vote my top townreads I almost always will vote no, so I will at least vote now for information. So I voted yes here even if haze is slightly scummy (because Conversion after him is more scummy - at least at the time I made the vote) also great dangerous, non-obvious reads you have there, happykrogan. Can you tell me in what world that me/rels/byj being facist is a "dangerous" and non-obvious read? I'd love to get your insight on how you trailblazed these three leads through your superior induction skills. | ||
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On November 03 2018 00:23 happykrogan wrote: yes. I didn't really tried to find a team connection yet. I just listed scummy individuals. And not mentioning each other doesn't mean you are not im a team. I will read through some filters later until I can give you an answer to the other question that will satisfy myself. ?? do you have some edgy, dangerous, non-obvious reads for us yet? or are you just going to tunnel in more and take the easy way to call ambiguous players facists in hopes that you can coast this game? | ||
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On November 03 2018 04:48 prplhz wrote: Uh, I think he started the whole mess about me and kita but then he sort of slipped out of it and just stood on the sidelines. He made a post about probabilities that I sort of disagreed with and looked like he was just spreading chaos. His posting style has some sort of straight forwardsness to it that I associate with townies so that's good. I don't like how he's treating this election this though, voting no to himself, but you should still elect me. I don't have a ton of reads, I kind of like krogan but that's it. I'm equally uncertain about you and kita, Conversion seems to actively attempt to lose this game, I don't know if Rels always acts like this? Like he doesn't player D1 and then he doesn't really play D2 and then he complains on D3 or something. byj sort of slipped under the radar with me but kita pointed out some meta about him and tons of people play like this as town. I was uncertain about Grackaroni and Conversion (which was part of the reason I voted for krogan and you) but I thought I'd figure out kita a bit better before long so I might be able to vote for his government but that's not really happening. In what way am I actively trying to lose the game, aside from my shitposting early game? Are you serious? Did you even bother reading past page 10 of this game before you made this post? | ||
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On November 05 2018 20:05 byj wrote: Thanks <3 <3 Probably the game before that What makes you think they don't serve a purpose? I was hoping for people to come 'defend' my plan, or try to not push me too hard. There would be no reason to do so, so I can assume the people doing so are Scum trying to gain my credit. Especially now in hindsight that Rels and Conversation seem to be easy to push as Scum instead (doesn't mean I think they're innocent either, they flatout ignored what I did =\). ??? I dug through your filter four times now and I have no idea what your "plan" was Care to elaborate? | ||
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On November 06 2018 00:50 kitaman27 wrote: Anyone notice how Conversion was happy to play a back seat role until now? Suddenly it's his turn and he starts attacking the people who are questioning his alignment. I think that shows that he's more invested in getting elected as opposed to figuring out the game the previous couple of cycles, where he simply went with policy votes. 1) I was busy this weekend which is why I "took a backseat role," so don't fit your narrative to fit your argument, please. 2) I don't care about getting elected, I care about poorly constructed arguments. Can you specify anywhere in my filter where I want people to elect me? | ||
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On November 06 2018 00:51 happykrogan wrote: So you're in fact uncertain about prplhz... I thought you may scumread him because of this: but then that's one less read you have. that's ok... Sorry for putting words in your mouth, that in my mind would have made you less scummy. As to kita: He has made some reads: I won't quote them because I don't want this post to get too long, but I say some postnumbers #213 #543 you are scummy #289 He is not a big fan of Rels #303 a big post where he says where everybody stands in his opinion #365 #535 putting people in tiers #453 "2 of my scumreads" BTW i'm not saying kita is town here. I'm just saying Conversions read is untrue. where are your dangerous and edgy reads? I'm still waiting aside from your basic ass "rels and byj the barely posting and my one tunneled Conversion read" | ||
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On November 06 2018 00:52 happykrogan wrote: BTW I just remember a game where Conversion got really angry as he was scumread and ended up as scum. also terrible read, I get really angry every game | ||
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https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/390080-tl-mafia-database CTRL +F Conversion look through my town games and my one scum game and tell me why your meta read is garbage. I'll wait. | ||
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Ironic that you call me a liar, and you do the same straight to me, huh? [QUOTE]On November 06 2018 00:35 Conversion wrote: [QUOTE]On November 03 2018 01:21 happykrogan wrote: [QUOTE]On November 03 2018 00:25 kitaman27 wrote: [QUOTE]On November 03 2018 00:16 happykrogan wrote: I also don't think prplhz is that much less scummy than the other three. The problem I have to vote for people who I think are a little bit scummy or I will have to almost constantly vote no. And at least we will get informationout of it.[/QUOTE] Could you give me the spark notes version of who you view as facist and more importantly, why? If you're feeling better about conversion and would pass a grack/prpl team, I'm struggling to get an idea of who you think the bad guys are.[/QUOTE] As I am conflicted about Conversion I don't really have someone I am convinced is a fascist right now. I have a few people I think are scummy and I would prefer not to vote. Conversion: Lying but I reconsider him when he is presidential candidate Rels: What Rayn said + being inactive but writing some easy to make oneliners when he is in thread Examples: [QUOTE]On October 30 2018 22:15 Rels wrote: [QUOTE]On October 30 2018 09:06 prplhz wrote: Is it a good idea to make the chancellor someone who is easy to read?[/QUOTE] As opposed to what ? Hard to read ? What's the benefit of that ?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On October 31 2018 06:19 Rels wrote: [QUOTE]On October 31 2018 06:02 happykrogan wrote: I decided to go with rayn. His concern seems like a plausible threat and I don't think scum would reveal that to the thread.[/QUOTE] I don't know if you've ever played with rayn, but that is not something I would townread him for.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On October 31 2018 06:27 Rels wrote: [QUOTE]On October 31 2018 06:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: [QUOTE]On October 31 2018 05:32 Rels wrote: I like hk and grack thought process about finding Hitler. Would prefer one of them as chancellor if we had to choose right now[/QUOTE] What do you mean? Can you elaborate more?[/QUOTE] Grack one is he one where he says prp could be scum and kita Hitler. If I rzmember correctly. Not at home so if you don't find it I'll find it later[/QUOTE] I think Inactivity + a few generic posts is a lot more scummier than just not writing anything byj: less scummy than rels. posted nothing mentionworth except this: [QUOTE]On November 01 2018 04:46 byj wrote: [QUOTE]On November 01 2018 00:32 kitaman27 wrote: [QUOTE]On November 01 2018 00:12 Conversion wrote: [QUOTE]On October 31 2018 10:01 Grackaroni wrote: [QUOTE]On October 31 2018 10:00 Conversion wrote: [QUOTE]On October 31 2018 09:59 prplhz wrote: [QUOTE]On October 31 2018 09:42 Conversion wrote: not really considering ur in it tbh. should have paid attention[/QUOTE] Because you didn't know he was in it or because you had forgotten it?[/QUOTE] I didn't look and thought we could have a nice game but forgot who he was. I voted no pass to this anyways, see you all in 21 hours[/QUOTE] Why did you vote no?[/QUOTE] Because the most chaotic way to play is to just topdeck after reaching 3 failed elections, and I will vote no to any government including myself being president[/QUOTE] lol Conversion is so crazy that he's probably not Hitler.[/QUOTE] Trying to hint at you knowing who Hitler is? [/QUOTE] after I asked him to contribute more. The only read he has and it's an easy to make a read about one post. Generally my gameplan is not really to find scum, but town so I can vote them. But then I realized if I only vote my top townreads I almost always will vote no, so I will at least vote now for information. So I voted yes here even if haze is slightly scummy (because Conversion after him is more scummy - at least at the time I made the vote) [/QUOTE] | ||
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On November 03 2018 01:21 happykrogan wrote: As I am conflicted about Conversion I don't really have someone I am convinced is a fascist right now. I have a few people I think are scummy and I would prefer not to vote. Conversion: Lying but I reconsider him when he is presidential candidate Rels: What Rayn said + being inactive but writing some easy to make oneliners when he is in thread Examples: I think Inactivity + a few generic posts is a lot more scummier than just not writing anything byj: less scummy than rels. posted nothing mentionworth except this: after I asked him to contribute more. The only read he has and it's an easy to make a read about one post. Generally my gameplan is not really to find scum, but town so I can vote them. But then I realized if I only vote my top townreads I almost always will vote no, so I will at least vote now for information. So I voted yes here even if haze is slightly scummy (because Conversion after him is more scummy - at least at the time I made the vote) fixed quoting | ||
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I don't need your pity, because I'm honestly not that pissed right now. In the past hour you've lied, made a shit meta read that you couldn't even verify which takes all of 2 minutes, and still refuse to make any logical connections to facist connections. Welcome to the no longer liberal list, bud. Thank god I elected rayn over you. | ||
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On November 06 2018 01:07 happykrogan wrote: Look: I proved I didn't lie. Something you're unable to do No, Krogan don't bullshit me. You scumread Rels for being inactive, first and foremost, then making a few posts to try and look like he's contributing. Then you tried to backpedal when I called you out on it "oh but I also made this one comment as well lol I'm not a liar " keep doing the mental gymnastics, dude | ||
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On November 06 2018 01:15 happykrogan wrote: You're too fixated on that meta read. I remembered it and said it. Then you pointed out why it was bs and I took it back. I'm fixated in the fact that your read progression has stayed in the same circle because you are conveniently tunneled onto 3 people, have not re-evaluated anything, randomly threw the idea that byj was Hitler (so he now evolves within your convenient 3) are you going to read what I wrote, or are you going to be smug about how you didn't lie because you added a supporting statement on your main reason why you scumread Rels? | ||
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On November 06 2018 01:30 happykrogan wrote: the main reason is the two things combined. I don't know how to make it clearer so I ignore that from now on. The main reason is he is inactive, and making some generic posts to circumvent his inactiveness. You don't have to make it any clearer, liar. Let me know when you're going to actually play the game instead of calling other people lazy while you have the same three scumreads since the beginning of the game. | ||
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elect always: rayn elect high priority: grack neutral: kita try not to elect: prplhz, byj, happykrogan, rels I'll come back later so I'm not spamming it up more than I already have | ||
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Because I found him the most liberal out of anyone in the thread? Care to answer my question on what your "plan" was that I apparently ignored? | ||
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On November 05 2018 22:51 byj wrote: Is getting reads onto people not a plan? There are only 3 Scums, so 'having a solid scumread' against 3 as Scum would be sub-optimal, since then you'd pretty much expected to vote for everyone else. So max. 2 townies, but likely more, if you're Hitler, or pretending to play against other Fascists. I really don't get the logic in that conclusion, care to elaborate? that was your plan? getting reads onto people? why am I or Rels suspicious for flat out ignoring you on getting reads onto people? | ||
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I think the best way to approach it is go for elections (so elect most townie people as chancellors), reject everything that seems way to scummy. We can possibly eat one facist policy being enacted before rayn, since if we do, we should 100% skip until rayn is president, and then if he eats a policy he gets to investigate, otherwise we most likely get a liberal policy passed, leaving us at 4-1, or 3-2 with one either confirmed facist or confirmed liberal, which is super good still for us. If a liberal policy is passed, I think we enact Rels's presidency anyways to try and set up investigative on rayn. I think rayn's plan was similar to this? not quite sure-- haven't had to time to read deeply into it. That's how I think I want to play until the reshuffle | ||
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if kita/grack gets a liberal passed, we enact rels+rayn team, and if this yields a a facist policy we set up investigative for rayn going into as 4L 1F, which is an even more ideal position the only real problem with this plan is if rayn is not liberal ofc, but I have no reason to believe that the moment | ||
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On November 08 2018 00:40 Rels wrote: I see your intent but I disagree since I'm pretty sure kita is scum. We can pass kita, elect me/Grack; then if a facsist pass you can go on with your plan, if a liberal passes we have basically won yeah rereading my plan I think you're right in that it boils down to skipping you or kita again.. more inclined to skip kitaman so I'll rethink and redive. | ||
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On November 09 2018 00:22 kitaman27 wrote: Heh if I were scum I'd totally buddy up to you to try to earn your vote, but the fact of matter is that I do in fact still think you're mafia. Could you explain the discrepancy in the posts I just pointed out? IIRC my thought process was that you were missing the broad side of the barn with Rels' point and I disliked it, but I didn't make a definitive statement since I had no time yesterday. I'm going to spend time analyzing you and Rels before I actually decide between you two. The first list I made I thought I made a post in that I was wrong in that you were making a lot of uncertainty disclaimers (which is why I put you at a neutral, until I disliked you again for above reason), but it seems like my filter suggest I didn't do so. | ||
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Vote positions: rayn/happykrogan - YES grack/prplhz - YES conversion/rayn - NO Just purely from vote positions, kitaman looks pretty neutral. Passes people he thinks is town (rayn/happykrogan), was unsure about grack/prplhz (ended up passing), immediately vetoes who he thinks is a scum president (Conversion) The problem I have with him still thinking I'm scum is that he suggested this plan in the beginning, and wasn't sure why it was a bad idea: On October 30 2018 08:58 kitaman27 wrote: Why not go the resistance route and just roll with the guys that are providing positive results? Sure a facist policy isn't going to end the game right away, but wouldn't it be better to ride the initial liberal policy pushers as much as possible until they give us a reason to doubt them? On October 31 2018 04:29 kitaman27 wrote: It sounds like we're talking about different situations. I'm saying roll with the good guys as long as we can and once we hit a fail, re-evaluate if it's a 3F or sabotage. Electing Hitler won't need to be something to worry about as much before that because we're not at that threshold. Once we do cross that threshold, it obviously becomes a bigger concern. He seems to say that it's find if we roll with people that are providing positive results, which makes the entire pool of governments we had so far good candidates to roll with his plan. However, he seems to be going against what he thought was a good plan-- he is no longer re-evaluating after a negative result is shown, but not rolling with a government that showed a positive result (Conversion/rayn) and just automatically vetoing me based on his read. Another thing that bothered me a lot about kitaman is his indecisiveness on the 2nd government. He seems to have laid out a pretty solid reading of the game, multiple times before the vote: On November 01 2018 23:37 kitaman27 wrote: This would be my ranking of trustworthiness at the moment. happykrogan raynpelikoneet byj prplhz Grackaroni Conversion Rels I have krogan slightly higher than rayn because I think the president slot has more wiggle room to send a double F through and get away with it, but I'm not entirely concerned about either. I'm always paranoid about playing games with rayn since I can't ever think of a situation where it worked out well when I trusted him, but even with the few things that I've disagreed with him so far, there don't seem to be inconsistencies in the logic. byj is kinda weird because it doesn't seem like he really cares about how he looks, which I think typically points to liberal. I had the same initial feeling about Conversion, but then I didn't like his explanation about the fail plan and he's got this sarcastic attitude with some of his posts that feel a bit manufactured. prpl is in the same boat as byj as someone who hasn't really said much, but I'd say prpl is worse because he's putting in slightly more effort to show he cares with a few random questions that don't really lead anywhere and a couple of wishy washy posts. I've already spoken about Rels about why I think he's a baddie. Grack I've gone back and forth on. On one hand, he didn't really seem invested in getting elected D1 and even if I he's wrong about his suspicion of me, I can see a viewpoint where a townie thinks that, but on the other hand, I didn't like his early game posting about prpl and picking Rels or conversion seems like the easiest path to rig the deck as president and then pass blame to your scummy looking choice. It does seem unlikely that grack would want to pair himself with another facist early on in the game however so I probably need to do some adjusting of my bottom three, either by moving grack up or replacing conversion/rels with someone else. On November 02 2018 23:34 kitaman27 wrote: I think the difference is that your argument is that grack with Rels/Conversion cannot make sense in mind, where as mine was that I'd update the list if that scenario where grack pairs himself with one of those players became reality. He threw it out there for a little bit, but settled on prpl eventually, which I don't think is enough to disregard the possibility completely. Do you think there is a strong enough argument to completely eliminate the possibility of grack + Rels or grack + conversion at the moment? I don't think so. Overall though, I think my trust ratings are better suited as tiers. tier 1: krogan/rayn (myself) tier 2: byj/prl/grack tier 3: conversion/rels He in fact, during this time, has called me being scummy for "being cool with grack/prplhz," while completely ignoring the fact that I was specifically okay with it because I had a strong belief that it would be a liberal grack/prplhz facist split at best, as I discounted the fact of a facist/facist or facist/hitler combination in this government. My argument was also that it would give us a peek into the alignments of the two (Which rayn called grack out for passing L/L onto prplhz instead of L/F), but kitaman said that was a poor reason to vote any government, since any government can objectively give us information. Why did kitaman then have such a hard time deciding? Grack and prplhz was in the lower half of his townie rankings, it should have been leaning pretty hard to a no in that case since he did not believe in voting a government solely for getting information. The only reasoning I can think is that a facist!kitaman was struggling to figure out the state of the game provided he voted this team on, and tried to hide under the guise of a liberal townie. If I was a liberal making reads and the government was two of my less trusted reads, I would have vetoed that government without a thought. On November 05 2018 01:18 kitaman27 wrote: My new tiers for trustworthiness would be: tier 1: krogan, grack, rayn tier 2: prpl tier 3: byj, conversion, rels I think grack rejecting his own presidency is rather town looking considering the decent opportunity to pass FF. Now that byj has started posting more, I think he looks a lot worse by purposely withholding his reads and asking random questions that don't seem like they serve a purpose. I'm going to vote down the conversion team. For my presidency, I'd likely nominate krogan who I have a slightly better feeling on, compared to rayn, but I still haven't decided for sure. Here he re-evaluates Grack now, since a liberal policy passed-- which is in line with "vote whoever yields positive results until shown otherwise." I wonder why he is conveniently ignoring that fact that a Conversion/rayn team yielded a liberal policy? Sure, I could have lied and drawn 2L in liberal!kitaman's eyes, but that is not a fact yet, so should I not be going up if his logic remains consistent? On November 07 2018 05:32 kitaman27 wrote: Cool. There was at least one facist who has been elected so far, which means they either chose not to sabotage or didn't have an opportunity to sabotage. I think the facist player would usually choose to sabotage if they have the opportunity, unless they are Hitler. Unless things really, really spiral out of control it seems unlikely that we'd hit 6 facist policies. The path to victory seems to be pretty straight forward and we have a dt check as a safe guard for when we eventually hit FFF. If we get a town result, that gives us a decent way to avoid Hitler as chancellor for half of the elections. Either Krogan or Grack for me this cycle. I'm going to re-read one more time before I decide to see if I can figure out who the elected facist might be. He thinks a facist was elected, but also thinks that facist player would choose to sabotage if they had the chance, unless they are Hitler. He seems incredibly focused on that fact that I am the facist player, but by that logic I am also Hitler?? since I did not sabotage? If that's the case, why isn't he pushing this idea further to convince other liberals? Seems like an awfully convenient soft jab to try and paint me as a facist. The problem with this is that he has no other real good targets. He's townread HK/rayn/grack pretty heavily at this point, Rels vs kitaman is obvious, and then you have prpl/byj, who are just skimming by filter-wise and not doing much. I have the most "incriminating" posts logically, but his filter seems to have a lot of loose ends he's refusing to tie together while calling me facists (and I guess, by this post, Hitler) The one positive thing about Kitaman is that he doesn't seem to be scared to eat a check, but maybe that could be that he's trying to eat the check on one of his other facists/Hitler, so that he can still have an avenue of winning the game. Verdict: PASS, contingent on Rels looking better than Kitaman I do not think a liberal!kitaman would have this many holes in his logic in how he approaches the game. It seems that he is making a special case to his original logic (vote people that show results) to me, as he feels as if he needs to go against his strategy in order to win as a facists. I do not see a liberal!kitaman being unhappy that a Conversion/rayn team passed a liberal policy, since in his mind that should have been enough people to win the game, even if a facist was elected into the government. I'll do a Rels dive in a few, going to go get breakfast with my family | ||
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On November 09 2018 01:55 kitaman27 wrote: Huh? During your presidency only krogan, rayn, and grack had alignment indicative results from the elections. I'm not sure what you mean why you say that you showed a positive result. That's correct. I think that's scummy reasoning. The term limits meant that I couldn't take rayn or krogan who were at the top of my list. I wasn't going to get chosen by you or grack, which pretty much means that I had to pick players from my middle tier. It didn't include you and Rels so I passed it through. You're really framing your argument to fit your narrative here. Correction, I know that a facist player was elected. At this point, I'm leaning towards either you being Hitler or prpl being a facist who didn't need to make a choice on d2. Well I think I made it pretty clear with my latest post that I think you and Rels are connected. Hardly a soft jab. No, you didn't have to pick people from your middle tier, you could have pushed for more information in order to be more sure of who you were voting for. You sat back, told people you were unsure, and then ended up voting for them for ?reasons? that I still don't know. How do you know a facist was elected? Playing possibility games != certain knowledge.. | ||
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Yes - Me/Grack/Rels/Rayn No - Kita No idea - Happykrogan/prplhz/byj ?? | ||
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On November 09 2018 00:17 happykrogan wrote: I will decide on who I prefer before deadline. If I end up prefering you and you don't get voted, I will 100% vote Rels anyway. If I end up prefering Rels and you get voted I will 100% not vote Rels, so we can follow the plan. Yes - Me/Rels/Rayn/Krogan Sort of yes - Grack (said it might change), No - Kita Unknown swing voters - byj prplhz I am voting no to this | ||
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I'm confused as to why you voted no? | ||
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that was probably my 2nd most level-headed game, next to Vendee @Grack you even called me relaxed in that game, which is why you townread me | ||
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On November 09 2018 07:17 kitaman27 wrote: I think today was actually a really good day for information even if I don't pass. Conversion suddenly changing his view of me and Rels is really telling I think. I’m sorry that Rels made some posts that made him look better than you in my eyes, and that makes it “sudden” If you’re town I seriously don’t understand your logic this game. | ||
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On November 09 2018 07:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think i want to vote yes here. Do you want to vote yes on kita and no on Rels? | ||
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On November 09 2018 07:37 kitaman27 wrote: I'm not rayn, but I think "here" is pretty obviously referring to yes on this vote for me. Thanks Captain Obvious. Want to tell me wif he wants to vote Rels as well? | ||
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Great job on passing a liberal policy— also @kitaman before this yoy said rayn was facist/hitler trying to sabotage into a rels/him facist policy passing— why wouldn’t rayn just sabotage my government and turn thread sentiment against me? it’d be safe enough to do. | ||
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don't we have an astronomically low chance of not drawing a liberal card? 1/5 we don't draw liberal * 1/4 we don't draw liberal * 1/3 we don't draw liberal = 1.6% chance assuming no one lied or am I bad and not understanding card drawing probabilities? actually thinking about it, you're right. assuming no one lied 4 is the best possible option. even if someone did lie, we'd be at a 4-2 and rayn would get presidential power | ||
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On November 13 2018 00:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think we are 1L5F no? I think we are at 1L4F-- it's the only thing that makes your plan 4 100% liberal draw if we pass two governments 6L 11F -> drew 1L 2F 5L 9F -> drew 2L 1F 3L 8F -> drew 1L 2F 2L 6F -> drew 1L 2F 1L 4F Pass enough times to draw 2 "random" policies, we enact 2 facists worst case scenario we are now at 1L 2F before shuffle, which means the next town/town government puts us at 5 liberal policies and a shuffle | ||
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