EPTkitaman27 - Yes
raynpelikoneet - Yes to one or the other
byj - Yes, but could change
prplhz - Learning Yes
happykrogan - Yes to both pairs (?)
Grackaroni - ?
Conversion - Leaning No?
Rels - No
[M][T] Secret Hitler, Act I, Take II - Page 41
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
kitaman27 - Yes raynpelikoneet - Yes to one or the other byj - Yes, but could change prplhz - Learning Yes happykrogan - Yes to both pairs (?) Grackaroni - ? Conversion - Leaning No? Rels - No | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 06 2018 01:39 Conversion wrote: anyways, my state of the game: elect always: rayn elect high priority: grack neutral: kita try not to elect: prplhz, byj, happykrogan, rels On November 08 2018 00:43 Conversion wrote: it boils down to skipping you or kita again.. more inclined to skip kitaman so I'll rethink and redive. I really think we may have forced Conversion's hand with showing his allegiance to Rels. He lists grack and myself in his top three trustworthy list and since rayn can't be elected, that would mean grack + kita is his ideal team. Yet a day later when he is suddenly given the choice he decides to favor a Rels + grack team over me with no explanation. People need to pay attention to this if that's how things shake up. Rels team may be more likely to pass, but that's because he has his pair of cronies to back him up. You should vote for the player who is most likely town, not the team that is most likely to pass. | ||
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happykrogan
Germany408 Posts
On November 09 2018 00:12 kitaman27 wrote: Does this accurately reflect everyone's opinion so far? You really should justify why you prefer one candidate over the other because we can use that information later on. I'm talking about prpl, byj, krogan and conversion specifically. kitaman27 - Yes raynpelikoneet - Yes to one or the other byj - Yes, but could change prplhz - Learning Yes happykrogan - Yes to both pairs (?) Grackaroni - ? Conversion - Leaning No? Rels - No I will decide on who I prefer before deadline. If I end up prefering you and you don't get voted, I will 100% vote Rels anyway. If I end up prefering Rels and you get voted I will 100% not vote Rels, so we can follow the plan. | ||
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Conversion
United States3308 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 09 2018 00:17 Conversion wrote: I'm tempted to just OMGUS kitaman and veto him because he keeps sticking to this "Conversion is scummy and I will never reposition myself away from this position" and it's on krogan's level of stubbornness and it's annoying me, but I'll objectively dive. Heh if I were scum I'd totally buddy up to you to try to earn your vote, but the fact of matter is that I do in fact still think you're mafia. Could you explain the discrepancy in the posts I just pointed out? | ||
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Conversion
United States3308 Posts
On November 09 2018 00:22 kitaman27 wrote: Heh if I were scum I'd totally buddy up to you to try to earn your vote, but the fact of matter is that I do in fact still think you're mafia. Could you explain the discrepancy in the posts I just pointed out? IIRC my thought process was that you were missing the broad side of the barn with Rels' point and I disliked it, but I didn't make a definitive statement since I had no time yesterday. I'm going to spend time analyzing you and Rels before I actually decide between you two. The first list I made I thought I made a post in that I was wrong in that you were making a lot of uncertainty disclaimers (which is why I put you at a neutral, until I disliked you again for above reason), but it seems like my filter suggest I didn't do so. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43269 Posts
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Conversion
United States3308 Posts
Vote positions: rayn/happykrogan - YES grack/prplhz - YES conversion/rayn - NO Just purely from vote positions, kitaman looks pretty neutral. Passes people he thinks is town (rayn/happykrogan), was unsure about grack/prplhz (ended up passing), immediately vetoes who he thinks is a scum president (Conversion) The problem I have with him still thinking I'm scum is that he suggested this plan in the beginning, and wasn't sure why it was a bad idea: On October 30 2018 08:58 kitaman27 wrote: Why not go the resistance route and just roll with the guys that are providing positive results? Sure a facist policy isn't going to end the game right away, but wouldn't it be better to ride the initial liberal policy pushers as much as possible until they give us a reason to doubt them? On October 31 2018 04:29 kitaman27 wrote: It sounds like we're talking about different situations. I'm saying roll with the good guys as long as we can and once we hit a fail, re-evaluate if it's a 3F or sabotage. Electing Hitler won't need to be something to worry about as much before that because we're not at that threshold. Once we do cross that threshold, it obviously becomes a bigger concern. He seems to say that it's find if we roll with people that are providing positive results, which makes the entire pool of governments we had so far good candidates to roll with his plan. However, he seems to be going against what he thought was a good plan-- he is no longer re-evaluating after a negative result is shown, but not rolling with a government that showed a positive result (Conversion/rayn) and just automatically vetoing me based on his read. Another thing that bothered me a lot about kitaman is his indecisiveness on the 2nd government. He seems to have laid out a pretty solid reading of the game, multiple times before the vote: On November 01 2018 23:37 kitaman27 wrote: This would be my ranking of trustworthiness at the moment. happykrogan raynpelikoneet byj prplhz Grackaroni Conversion Rels I have krogan slightly higher than rayn because I think the president slot has more wiggle room to send a double F through and get away with it, but I'm not entirely concerned about either. I'm always paranoid about playing games with rayn since I can't ever think of a situation where it worked out well when I trusted him, but even with the few things that I've disagreed with him so far, there don't seem to be inconsistencies in the logic. byj is kinda weird because it doesn't seem like he really cares about how he looks, which I think typically points to liberal. I had the same initial feeling about Conversion, but then I didn't like his explanation about the fail plan and he's got this sarcastic attitude with some of his posts that feel a bit manufactured. prpl is in the same boat as byj as someone who hasn't really said much, but I'd say prpl is worse because he's putting in slightly more effort to show he cares with a few random questions that don't really lead anywhere and a couple of wishy washy posts. I've already spoken about Rels about why I think he's a baddie. Grack I've gone back and forth on. On one hand, he didn't really seem invested in getting elected D1 and even if I he's wrong about his suspicion of me, I can see a viewpoint where a townie thinks that, but on the other hand, I didn't like his early game posting about prpl and picking Rels or conversion seems like the easiest path to rig the deck as president and then pass blame to your scummy looking choice. It does seem unlikely that grack would want to pair himself with another facist early on in the game however so I probably need to do some adjusting of my bottom three, either by moving grack up or replacing conversion/rels with someone else. On November 02 2018 23:34 kitaman27 wrote: I think the difference is that your argument is that grack with Rels/Conversion cannot make sense in mind, where as mine was that I'd update the list if that scenario where grack pairs himself with one of those players became reality. He threw it out there for a little bit, but settled on prpl eventually, which I don't think is enough to disregard the possibility completely. Do you think there is a strong enough argument to completely eliminate the possibility of grack + Rels or grack + conversion at the moment? I don't think so. Overall though, I think my trust ratings are better suited as tiers. tier 1: krogan/rayn (myself) tier 2: byj/prl/grack tier 3: conversion/rels He in fact, during this time, has called me being scummy for "being cool with grack/prplhz," while completely ignoring the fact that I was specifically okay with it because I had a strong belief that it would be a liberal grack/prplhz facist split at best, as I discounted the fact of a facist/facist or facist/hitler combination in this government. My argument was also that it would give us a peek into the alignments of the two (Which rayn called grack out for passing L/L onto prplhz instead of L/F), but kitaman said that was a poor reason to vote any government, since any government can objectively give us information. Why did kitaman then have such a hard time deciding? Grack and prplhz was in the lower half of his townie rankings, it should have been leaning pretty hard to a no in that case since he did not believe in voting a government solely for getting information. The only reasoning I can think is that a facist!kitaman was struggling to figure out the state of the game provided he voted this team on, and tried to hide under the guise of a liberal townie. If I was a liberal making reads and the government was two of my less trusted reads, I would have vetoed that government without a thought. On November 05 2018 01:18 kitaman27 wrote: My new tiers for trustworthiness would be: tier 1: krogan, grack, rayn tier 2: prpl tier 3: byj, conversion, rels I think grack rejecting his own presidency is rather town looking considering the decent opportunity to pass FF. Now that byj has started posting more, I think he looks a lot worse by purposely withholding his reads and asking random questions that don't seem like they serve a purpose. I'm going to vote down the conversion team. For my presidency, I'd likely nominate krogan who I have a slightly better feeling on, compared to rayn, but I still haven't decided for sure. Here he re-evaluates Grack now, since a liberal policy passed-- which is in line with "vote whoever yields positive results until shown otherwise." I wonder why he is conveniently ignoring that fact that a Conversion/rayn team yielded a liberal policy? Sure, I could have lied and drawn 2L in liberal!kitaman's eyes, but that is not a fact yet, so should I not be going up if his logic remains consistent? On November 07 2018 05:32 kitaman27 wrote: Cool. There was at least one facist who has been elected so far, which means they either chose not to sabotage or didn't have an opportunity to sabotage. I think the facist player would usually choose to sabotage if they have the opportunity, unless they are Hitler. Unless things really, really spiral out of control it seems unlikely that we'd hit 6 facist policies. The path to victory seems to be pretty straight forward and we have a dt check as a safe guard for when we eventually hit FFF. If we get a town result, that gives us a decent way to avoid Hitler as chancellor for half of the elections. Either Krogan or Grack for me this cycle. I'm going to re-read one more time before I decide to see if I can figure out who the elected facist might be. He thinks a facist was elected, but also thinks that facist player would choose to sabotage if they had the chance, unless they are Hitler. He seems incredibly focused on that fact that I am the facist player, but by that logic I am also Hitler?? since I did not sabotage? If that's the case, why isn't he pushing this idea further to convince other liberals? Seems like an awfully convenient soft jab to try and paint me as a facist. The problem with this is that he has no other real good targets. He's townread HK/rayn/grack pretty heavily at this point, Rels vs kitaman is obvious, and then you have prpl/byj, who are just skimming by filter-wise and not doing much. I have the most "incriminating" posts logically, but his filter seems to have a lot of loose ends he's refusing to tie together while calling me facists (and I guess, by this post, Hitler) The one positive thing about Kitaman is that he doesn't seem to be scared to eat a check, but maybe that could be that he's trying to eat the check on one of his other facists/Hitler, so that he can still have an avenue of winning the game. Verdict: PASS, contingent on Rels looking better than Kitaman I do not think a liberal!kitaman would have this many holes in his logic in how he approaches the game. It seems that he is making a special case to his original logic (vote people that show results) to me, as he feels as if he needs to go against his strategy in order to win as a facists. I do not see a liberal!kitaman being unhappy that a Conversion/rayn team passed a liberal policy, since in his mind that should have been enough people to win the game, even if a facist was elected into the government. I'll do a Rels dive in a few, going to go get breakfast with my family | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 09 2018 00:51 Conversion wrote: He seems to say that it's find if we roll with people that are providing positive results, which makes the entire pool of governments we had so far good candidates to roll with his plan. However, he seems to be going against what he thought was a good plan-- he is no longer re-evaluating after a negative result is shown, but not rolling with a government that showed a positive result (Conversion/rayn) and just automatically vetoing me based on his read. Huh? During your presidency only krogan, rayn, and grack had alignment indicative results from the elections. I'm not sure what you mean why you say that you showed a positive result. On November 09 2018 00:51 Conversion wrote: He in fact, during this time, has called me being scummy for "being cool with grack/prplhz," while completely ignoring the fact that I was specifically okay with it because I had a strong belief that it would be a liberal grack/prplhz facist split at best That's correct. I think that's scummy reasoning. On November 09 2018 00:51 Conversion wrote: Why did kitaman then have such a hard time deciding? Grack and prplhz was in the lower half of his townie rankings, it should have been leaning pretty hard to a no in that case since he did not believe in voting a government solely for getting information. The term limits meant that I couldn't take rayn or krogan who were at the top of my list. I wasn't going to get chosen by you or grack, which pretty much means that I had to pick players from my middle tier. It didn't include you and Rels so I passed it through. You're really framing your argument to fit your narrative here. On November 09 2018 00:51 Conversion wrote: He thinks a facist was elected, but also thinks that facist player would choose to sabotage if they had the chance, unless they are Hitler. Correction, I know that a facist player was elected. At this point, I'm leaning towards either you being Hitler or prpl being a facist who didn't need to make a choice on d2. On November 09 2018 00:51 Conversion wrote: If that's the case, why isn't he pushing this idea further to convince other liberals? Seems like an awfully convenient soft jab to try and paint me as a facist. Well I think I made it pretty clear with my latest post that I think you and Rels are connected. Hardly a soft jab. | ||
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happykrogan
Germany408 Posts
do you think it is more likely, that we have a hitler Conversion or a scum prplhz If Converison is hitler, why do you think this isn't true anymore? On November 01 2018 00:32 kitaman27 wrote: lol Conversion is so crazy that he's probably not Hitler. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
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happykrogan
Germany408 Posts
I just read Kita's filter again and I think the things he said as well as his reads and his read progression make sense from a town point of view. The only thing that worries me, is a potential kita/prplhz connection, because prplhz, (who he always had in tier 2 - which is probably a good Idea to have a scumbuddy in), would be the obvious scumread for him, because he doesn't have towncred from selecting liberal over fascist and at least one voted player has to be scum if kita is town- which also does let rels look better, because he has the connection in his scumteam I can see town Kita who scumread Conversion the whole game thinking Conv is hitler though (except the one post which he posted a week ago). | ||
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happykrogan
Germany408 Posts
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Grackaroni
United States9846 Posts
I think the team may actually be Prplhz/Kitaman/Conversion from reading the interactions between them. Lots of little snipes against each other without much coming from them that reads a lot like scum distancing to me. (If this is the case then Conversion got 2 liberal cards) Rayn also mentioned the possibility of a Kita/byj/Rels team from the votes but that doesn't feel right to me. Regardless that team won't be able to win if that is the team. I think Prplhz is very likely scum since the only thing he's done this game is try to convince people that I'm scum after voting for me to choose the cards. If we don't have the votes for me/Rels then I'll upvote me/Kita if that's what Rayn wants me to do but I'm also ok with letting the investigative ability go to HK. I'm going quote some of the interactions in a second. | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9846 Posts
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Conversion
United States3308 Posts
On November 09 2018 01:55 kitaman27 wrote: Huh? During your presidency only krogan, rayn, and grack had alignment indicative results from the elections. I'm not sure what you mean why you say that you showed a positive result. That's correct. I think that's scummy reasoning. The term limits meant that I couldn't take rayn or krogan who were at the top of my list. I wasn't going to get chosen by you or grack, which pretty much means that I had to pick players from my middle tier. It didn't include you and Rels so I passed it through. You're really framing your argument to fit your narrative here. Correction, I know that a facist player was elected. At this point, I'm leaning towards either you being Hitler or prpl being a facist who didn't need to make a choice on d2. Well I think I made it pretty clear with my latest post that I think you and Rels are connected. Hardly a soft jab. No, you didn't have to pick people from your middle tier, you could have pushed for more information in order to be more sure of who you were voting for. You sat back, told people you were unsure, and then ended up voting for them for ?reasons? that I still don't know. How do you know a facist was elected? Playing possibility games != certain knowledge.. | ||
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Conversion
United States3308 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 09 2018 00:51 Conversion wrote: No, you didn't have to pick people from your middle tier, you could have pushed for more information in order to be more sure of who you were voting for. You sat back, told people you were unsure, and then ended up voting for them for ?reasons? that I still don't know. So what's my facist motivation for passing it through? On November 09 2018 00:51 Conversion wrote: How do you know a facist was elected? Playing possibility games != certain knowledge.. I'm certain because there were five people elected and I wasn't one of them lol. I know for a fact because there are only five liberals in the game. You obviously aren't working with the same knowledge, but it's a fact nevertheless. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 09 2018 04:03 Conversion wrote: oh wait I am stupid, you are right. facist HAS to have been elected with 6 unique people in a government. I take the last statement back Only five actually. rayn was elected twice. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
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