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On March 21 2018 04:03 rsoultin wrote:
Problem is, I don't really expect people to get my Slam read. I just think that it's probably right.
Okay...soo....if people aren't going to get your slam read, then what keeps your vote on him from being wasted?
Let's say we did get additional votes on Alakaslam. Is his reaction to the added pressure likely to help you further a read on him? Or give you anything you CAN use to convince others? Or would he just post more youtube videos, regardless of alignment, and everyone shrugs and says they can't get a read on him because he's not doing anything?
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On March 21 2018 05:10 rsoultin wrote:
Also idk his first post asking how many mafia there are really rubs me the wrong way. What strategic desicions could knowing that help inform on D1/D2?
Here's a strategic decision that would be informed on D2 by knowing how many mafia the game started with: WHO TO LYNCH. If you know how many members of the mafia there are, you know how many kills they can execute. Then you can see if any are "missing." If you don't know how many to expect, then a healer doesn't know whether to have added trust toward the target he healed. A roleblocker or jailkeeper doesn't know whether to have added suspicion toward their own target. Circumstantial evidence yielded by the night results will very often outweigh whatever inclinations players previously had, about who "seemed" town and who "seemed" scummy. Instead of the pure guessing game of Day 1, you have hard data to work with...IF you know how many mafia members there are. So it's CRITICAL information. Unfortunately, the OP doesn't even give us a RANGE of possible answers. There's literally nothing keeping this from being an 11/9 setup at this point. Or 19/1.
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On March 21 2018 07:33 Conversion wrote:
Meh. I keep rereading n00bking's filter and I don't see town or NAI. I see scum.
His entrance on how many mafia => strategy changing was a horrible post. How is that NAI? Why would a town anyone care about how many mafia there are?
ONLY a town anyone wants players to find out how many mafia there are. lol
Obviously my early scum game would mimic my early town game, but I would NOT go so far as to actually try and generate a discussion of how many mafia are in the game, if it seems like the host hasn't said, and it seems like other people aren't bringing it up. If I were scum, I would prefer that the topic is never, EVER raised. The only scum agenda there could be behind the post I made is "try to look town, by damaging the scum agenda." But it's TOO damaging to the scum agenda, for how much town cred is bought by it. Net-negative, for any scum player to make that post. Only makes sense for town.
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On March 21 2018 07:59 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 07:54 n00bKing wrote:On March 20 2018 19:51 KelsierSC wrote:On March 20 2018 19:36 Palmar wrote:
df's roleplaying is some of the worst I've ever seen. yeh it's not good. I don't know what it means alignment wise. I feel that if you're town you just have fun as town whereas if you rolled mafia the second time in 3 games and you wanted to make things fun fun yourself/hide you would make a persona. I can't say it makes him town or mafia but if I had to pick I would say it is more scum sided. Don't really agree, personally. How does the persona help him hide, if how annoying it is becomes a topic of conversation? I also haven't known scum players to normally be bored enough that they have to do anything like inventing a persona, in order to keep themselves entertained. Drawing a scum role should never be boring, it's pulling a town role that's boring. (I believe someone already said early in this thread that they pulled a town role and it's boring.) I haven't seen many people invent a role like this for themselves, but when they have, they've been town (and then they've been asked to cut it out, much like what's been happening to darthfoley here.) So while we mostly agree that it doesn't point too strongly in either direction, if *I* had to pick I would say it is more of a town indicator. This monologue is pointless - as both of you are debating YOUR values on how to play the game. Not what Darthfoley is actually doing with the roleplay.
What is that even supposed to mean? He's not doing anything with the roleplay. Roleplay doesn't DO anything. The discussion is of whether the use of roleplay is scum-indicative or town-indicative. Kelsier thought scum would be more likely to "hide" by making a persona. I asked how the persona is supposed to help him hide, when I think the opposite is actually true, and that it draws attention. And when I say that it's something I've seen from Town but not from Scum, that has nothing to do with my "values on how to play the game." It's just real-world, lived experience.
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On March 21 2018 08:32 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 07:35 Palmar wrote:On March 21 2018 07:31 Holyflare wrote:
Thanks captain obvious. Explain to me why the two people voting ksc are mafia I don't even know who is voting kelsier.
Exo and darthfoley.
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On March 21 2018 08:55 Mocsta wrote:
NK is playing filler this cycle, while chastising other players for being illogical.
I don't chastize other players for being illogical. I point out when they are being illogical, which allows other players to judge whether they should be scumread for it. And if they're town, then by pointing out when they are being illogical, it affords them the opportunity to correct it.
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On March 21 2018 09:01 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 08:57 n00bKing wrote:On March 21 2018 05:10 rsoultin wrote:
Also idk his first post asking how many mafia there are really rubs me the wrong way. What strategic desicions could knowing that help inform on D1/D2? Here's a strategic decision that would be informed on D2 by knowing how many mafia the game started with: WHO TO LYNCH. If you know how many members of the mafia there are, you know how many kills they can execute. Then you can see if any are "missing." If you don't know how many to expect, then a healer doesn't know whether to have added trust toward the target he healed. A roleblocker or jailkeeper doesn't know whether to have added suspicion toward their own target. Circumstantial evidence yielded by the night results will very often outweigh whatever inclinations players previously had, about who "seemed" town and who "seemed" scummy. Instead of the pure guessing game of Day 1, you have hard data to work with...IF you know how many mafia members there are. So it's CRITICAL information. Unfortunately, the OP doesn't even give us a RANGE of possible answers. There's literally nothing keeping this from being an 11/9 setup at this point. Or 19/1. Know this. Im vig, and if you arent lynched Day1. You still wont be around Day2.
lol, right, right. You're the Vigilante, and the scum do not have a roleblocker. Since you've already informed us that the scum don't have a roleblocker, could you please go ahead and tell us which roles they DO have? Would it be safe to assume they have...a Vigilante? 
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On March 21 2018 09:03 Holyflare wrote:
Also post game when I have some time at a computer I am going to be a sad person and systematically dismantle noobking's "logic" posts if he is town because they are so deeply flawed.
You will fail.
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On March 21 2018 09:15 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Noobking who is scum and who you vote. Simple words
No one knows who is scum except for the scum.
I have my vote on disformation. It's a good place for a vote. Another good place for a vote is ykl. This has not changed. I would like to see rsoul's answer to my question, before trying to determine whether Alakaslam is a good place for a vote. I could also get behind a PL of Holyflare or Rels, in this and every subsequent game I will ever play here.
I do not think the 3 votes against Exo are well-reasoned.
I do not think the 2 votes against Kelsier are well-reasoned.
I do not think the 6 votes against MoosyDoosy are legal.
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I'm the last person who needs the rules and roles quoted to me. As shown in the order of operations, the mafia roleblock would be enforced before a vigilante shot. And there is exactly no reason for you to assume they do not have a roleblocker. Or a jailkeeper.
So let's all just hope you're not a town vigilante. Because if you are, you've done a very stupid thing.
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On March 21 2018 09:47 Conversion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 09:09 n00bKing wrote:On March 21 2018 07:33 Conversion wrote:
Meh. I keep rereading n00bking's filter and I don't see town or NAI. I see scum.
His entrance on how many mafia => strategy changing was a horrible post. How is that NAI? Why would a town anyone care about how many mafia there are? ONLY a town anyone wants players to find out how many mafia there are. lol Obviously my early scum game would mimic my early town game, but I would NOT go so far as to actually try and generate a discussion of how many mafia are in the game, if it seems like the host hasn't said, and it seems like other people aren't bringing it up. If I were scum, I would prefer that the topic is never, EVER raised. The only scum agenda there could be behind the post I made is "try to look town, by damaging the scum agenda." But it's TOO damaging to the scum agenda, for how much town cred is bought by it. Net-negative, for any scum player to make that post. Only makes sense for town. I mean a scum player can make that post thinking that townies would never make that post so that’s not a good reason? Also I am town and I literally didn’t give a shit about the number of mafia and I don’t see why other town would as well
Well, you'd understand if you were better at the game, I guess.
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On March 21 2018 09:53 Conversion wrote:
funny you mention skill because if you’re town you’re the one getting scum read, not me
but you’re scum and it’s really cute that you try to quantify skill at a forum mafia game as literally no one thinks you’re good LOL
lol, sure buddy. I'm not being scumread by a significant number of players. I'm not in the Noose right now, the number of votes on me are fewer than will be had by the eventual lynch, and there's a lot of time left in the Phase.
If the scum team isn't terrified of me yet, they WILL be. In all the years I've played this game, and in all the dozens of times I've played this game, I have still never ONCE been end-gamed as Town. If I'm Town, and the scum won, then I HAD to have been dead. The scum team MUST eliminate me themselves, or get the town to do it for them, because if I'm left alive, the mafia win percentage falls to ZERO.
As another player once put it, the only person who figures out the scum roster faster than I do, is the narrator.
It has also been more than four YEARS since any town team I was on accidentally mislynched or vig-shot me, and then managed to win without my help. It's never happened here. Town won when the scum team failed to kill me, and town won after the scum team night-killed me, but the one time I was mislynched, is my only Town loss here. (I voted against only two players in that game, and both were scum, but even after I was mislynched, Town didn't follow my votes quickly enough to win the game without me.)
If there are any players in this game more experienced than I am, there aren't many. And I expect there are none who could match my winning percentage.
But keep on running your mouth.
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On March 21 2018 10:06 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 09:47 n00bKing wrote:
I'm the last person who needs the rules and roles quoted to me. As shown in the order of operations, the mafia roleblock would be enforced before a vigilante shot. And there is exactly no reason for you to assume they do not have a roleblocker. Or a jailkeeper.
So let's all just hope you're not a town vigilante. Because if you are, you've done a very stupid thing. Why aren't you assuming im mafia.
Why should I assume you're mafia?
On March 21 2018 10:06 Mocsta wrote:
You dont like my tictock posts.
I am calling you mafia.
You have caught me with TMI.
Vote me .
No thanks.
Me not liking your tictock posts doesn't preclude you from being town. You being wrong about my allegiance doesn't preclude you from being town. You telling us the mafia doesn't have a roleblocker doesn't look like "TMI" it just looks like ignorance. A literal "scum claim" like that is rare enough to be disregarded as "too scummy to be scum."
Town can be ignorant. You can be ignorant. You can be town.
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On March 21 2018 10:17 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 10:13 n00bKing wrote:On March 21 2018 09:53 Conversion wrote:
funny you mention skill because if you’re town you’re the one getting scum read, not me
but you’re scum and it’s really cute that you try to quantify skill at a forum mafia game as literally no one thinks you’re good LOL lol, sure buddy. I'm not being scumread by a significant number of players. I'm not in the Noose right now, the number of votes on me are fewer than will be had by the eventual lynch, and there's a lot of time left in the Phase. If the scum team isn't terrified of me yet, they WILL be. In all the years I've played this game, and in all the dozens of times I've played this game, I have still never ONCE been end-gamed as Town. If I'm Town, and the scum won, then I HAD to have been dead. The scum team MUST eliminate me themselves, or get the town to do it for them, because if I'm left alive, the mafia win percentage falls to ZERO. As another player once put it, the only person who figures out the scum roster faster than I do, is the narrator. It has also been more than four YEARS since any town team I was on accidentally mislynched or vig-shot me, and then managed to win without my help. It's never happened here. Town won when the scum team failed to kill me, and town won after the scum team night-killed me, but the one time I was mislynched, is my only Town loss here. (I voted against only two players in that game, and both were scum, but even after I was mislynched, Town didn't follow my votes quickly enough to win the game without me.) If there are any players in this game more experienced than I am, there aren't many. And I expect there are none who could match my winning percentage. But keep on running your mouth. Wow dude, you're really good. People like you are what's going to make #TLMafiaGreatAgain. After all, there is WAY too much dick measuring and toxicity going on around here.
If you say so. But I never said there was too much dick measuring or toxicity going on around here. That was other people saying that. I said there was too much apathy going on around here. 4 signups out of 13 deciding not to play is pretty pitiful.
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On March 21 2018 10:24 Mocsta wrote:
DF,
I preferred you in character.
Responding to that chatter is only satisfying NK agenda to avoid having to scum-hunt.
NK says "disfo/ykl are good targets to pressure" but at no points applies, said pressure.
Of COURSE I have applied said pressure. What more would you expect me to do, to apply said pressure? I have my vote on one of them. I've said they are both good places for additional votes. The one I don't have my vote on, I nevertheless engaged in a line of questioning, but the player was shielded from pressure by rsoul, and the line of questioning actually INTERFERED with by Holyflare. I have then gone on to discuss more players with other players, and ask more questions of other players.
All the while, EIGHT players aren't even VOTING. At least a couple of them have not made a post yet at all. It is preposterous to try and pretend that I am not doing *more* than my share of ensuring there will be useful content to look at from this Phase.
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On March 21 2018 10:35 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 10:31 MoosyDoosy wrote:On March 21 2018 10:29 Tictock wrote:
Almost caught up. Well still ~5 pages behind, but home now and got everything that was distracting me out of the way.
@ KSC
Right now I am fairly comfortable calling you, Rayn, Vivax, and HF town. Nothing great as to why, just level of effort, tone, and investedness from you guys makes it fairly likely you are all town. At the very least I think you are all off the table for lynch today.
I am also fairly convinced Moosy is scum. He is the read I mentioned awhile ago.
Basically Moosy's mood has done a complete 180 from his initial bit of spam, which was more in line with what I'd expect from a town!Moosy. As far as I can tell he forced his initial bit of spam to make some kind of effort, but really can't be bothered to play scum twice in a row.
His latest bouts of posts are more emo shit, and his scum list at the end of pg 28 is just OMGUS. I'd expect a town!Moosy to be happy and at least a bit trolly for having rolled Town this game, but I just see a disgruntled person reluctantly playing.
I didn't want to post this read earlier as there is clearly something going on with Moosy given his /out and somewhat reluctant re/in, but I'm betting it was just fear of rolling scum in this large of a game having just lost as scum. This post is almost correct except I enjoy playing Mafia and I hate playing VT Actually scrap that. Tictock's post is complete garbage like Mocsta's earlier post on me. Both have no idea what the point of my activity at the start of the game was and why my list is the way it is.
Well I knew what the point of your activity at the start of the game was, and why your list was the way it was. But your list is too large to really have much value. Even excluding myself and Slam, your lynch pool would be 6 players. There has always been at least one bad guy, in the people who react? So you're sure there's a bad guy in those 6 players? Not real handy. Unless there are 3 or fewer bad guys in the game, our odds of hitting one at random are already better than 1 in 6.
On March 21 2018 10:53 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Now if I WERE to employ OMGUS instead of my bait strategy it would be this:
##Unvote
##Vote: Mocsta
##Unvote
##Vote: Tictock
Saying what would happen if you went OMGUS instead doesn't require that you actually go to the voting thread and DO it. If someone were to take a vote off of disformation, then Exo would have gone into the Noose at that point. So why would you be backing off of him to demonstrate what your OMGUS votes would look like, and alleviate pressure on what HAD been your apparent target?
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On March 21 2018 10:35 Mocsta wrote:
I have no desire to argue with a scum read. Its pointless for the spectators.
It's hugely important for the spectators, if you actually have ANY designs on seeing me lynched. Players get lynched and not lynched based on what spectators think of the arguments between them.
On March 21 2018 10:35 Mocsta wrote:
The only comment I will make is that #652 reads like a classic scum "what have i done wrong" post.
lol, oh no no no no no. By no means did I ask "what have I done wrong?" I know there is not something I've done wrong. I instead only listed things I've done that contribute to seeing my targets receive pressure, and things I've done that contribute to an atmosphere consistent with a town victory.
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On March 21 2018 10:51 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 10:47 Tictock wrote:On March 21 2018 07:46 Mocsta wrote:
tictock is in null pile as I was surprised by the content since waking. Maybe im selfish, but I was quite surprised he didnt ask me anything.
? I don't give a shit you temp scum read me (for pretty meh reasons), and I'm leaning town on you atm. Got bigger fish bro. I am surprised you agree with the notion of leaving Moosy off the lynch block today though. Not that he is my top scum read or dying to lynch him myself, but I do think he has a pretty good chance of being mafia at this point. Idk, just weird to see multiple people take this "ignore Moosy" stance. I cant speak for others, but my opinion is 2-fold. (1) Most trolling mafia dont have the balls to keep it up for an entire cycle. At some point there is a need to survive. I dont know Moosy well enough to understand if this tell applies, but, i can give benefit of the doubt for 1 cycle. (2) I am expecting between 4 and 5 mafia. Even if Moosy was mafia, i think there is enough content this Day1 to have a successful lynch outside moosy.
Your 2nd point is seriously ludicrous. Even if Moosy was Mafia, you think there's enough content in Day ONE to have a successful lynch on someone else? Why would a town player ever believe this? The odds of a successful Day 1 lynch are ALWAYS LOW. And any time a scum player is lynched on Day 1, it's always going to be their own fault, and not the result of some widespread super-sleuthing from the town players. Remember that time when a scum player was lynched on Day 1, not because they did something wrong, but because the town at large just played and cooperated so well together that the odds of a successful lynch actually tilted in their favor? No, neither does anyone else. In the history of ever.
Even if a town player had this kind of confidence (which they should not), they still should not speak of it. But certainly a mafia player would have reason to speak of it. It will decelerate discussion, and keep players from thinking for themselves.
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On March 21 2018 11:03 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Noobking goes from setup to picking at what other people are saying which is exactly what he did when I was scum with him last game.
Right. So how is that supposed to be alignment-indicative? I started out the last game exactly like this one. And in that game, there was no reason to start out doing anything but playing precisely as I would play, if Town. And I was almost universally townread on Day 1. So...yeahhhh
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On March 21 2018 11:08 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2018 09:17 n00bKing wrote:On March 21 2018 07:59 Mocsta wrote:On March 21 2018 07:54 n00bKing wrote:On March 20 2018 19:51 KelsierSC wrote:On March 20 2018 19:36 Palmar wrote:
df's roleplaying is some of the worst I've ever seen. yeh it's not good. I don't know what it means alignment wise. I feel that if you're town you just have fun as town whereas if you rolled mafia the second time in 3 games and you wanted to make things fun fun yourself/hide you would make a persona. I can't say it makes him town or mafia but if I had to pick I would say it is more scum sided. Don't really agree, personally. How does the persona help him hide, if how annoying it is becomes a topic of conversation? I also haven't known scum players to normally be bored enough that they have to do anything like inventing a persona, in order to keep themselves entertained. Drawing a scum role should never be boring, it's pulling a town role that's boring. (I believe someone already said early in this thread that they pulled a town role and it's boring.) I haven't seen many people invent a role like this for themselves, but when they have, they've been town (and then they've been asked to cut it out, much like what's been happening to darthfoley here.) So while we mostly agree that it doesn't point too strongly in either direction, if *I* had to pick I would say it is more of a town indicator. This monologue is pointless - as both of you are debating YOUR values on how to play the game. Not what Darthfoley is actually doing with the roleplay. What is that even supposed to mean? He's not doing anything with the roleplay. Roleplay doesn't DO anything. The discussion is of whether the use of roleplay is scum-indicative or town-indicative. Kelsier thought scum would be more likely to "hide" by making a persona. I asked how the persona is supposed to help him hide, when I think the opposite is actually true, and that it draws attention. And when I say that it's something I've seen from Town but not from Scum, that has nothing to do with my "values on how to play the game." It's just real-world, lived experience. Lol, you literally answered your own question, ya know? Show nested quote +Scum: I'm gunna do weird shit, kus only town does weird shit!
Noobking: Wow, look at that townie, doing weird shit...
Scum: Success!
You are not using the same argument as Kelsier at all. He is saying that it would be natural for scum to *want* to behave that way. Not that they might do it for WIFOM purposes that basically amount to "everyone who has done this was town, so I'll do it as scum...and everyone will think I'm town!" And I disagree that it is natural for scum to *want* to behave that way.
And using the WIFOM approach you mention would be needlessly dangerous, unless DF expects he's GOING to quickly be scumread. If he doesn't think he's GOING to quickly be scumread by multiple players, then there's no need to employ the dangerous WIFOM tactic in the hopes of it earning him townleans. There's a REASON why scum players hadn't done it before. When scum players have consistently avoided doing something, then the benefit of "people wouldn't expect a scum player to do this" has to carefully be weighed against WHY scum players aren't expected to do it. I think the trade-off is bad. I think most scum players would realize the trade-off is bad. And hence, I think it is mildly town-indicative behavior.
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EPT
