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On March 13 2018 19:11 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2018 17:46 Holyflare wrote:
Also strange nk doesn't want to go after his second biggest scum read and instead was trying to prep him to lynch me maybe? Yes, SO strange for someone to go after their biggest scum read, instead of their second biggest. *eyeroll* You're a better lynch than Vivax because Vivax is a medic claim. And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you're constantly trying to help the wrong team (while he does so only every now and then!) And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you withdrew your fake claim at the start of Day 2 when Town would have a motive to keep it secret and use it against the scum team on N2 if there's no mass claim, while Scum would have a motive to back out of the fake claim ASAP in case there IS a mass claim. And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you give wrong reads for bad reasons (ie Koshi) And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you go back on your other reads without explanation as soon as it becomes convenient for mafia to do so. (ie Moosy) And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you keep (objectively) posting falsehoods about things other players have said, and when you get caught in your lies, you try to play it off as "semantics." And you're a better lynch than Vivax because you keep inexplicably trying to act like it's scummy for me to argue against your stupid scum-favored ideas. You're a better lynch than Vivax for ALL the other reasons listed in my case against you on Page 63. You should be the lynch today because you...are...scum.
This is semi succinct so I can respond.
Haven't helped the wrong team at all. In fact told people to nk prplhz and was the first to do so. Even beating down rsoul's points on prplhz. Pushing night kill scenarios that may well have been wrong and helped mafia is not scummy, it's just theory crafting different scenarios to see which would help us. Everyone is welcome to talk about them and suggest other scenarios. Rsoultin did for my last plan and then I subsequently dropped it because she was correct. That's how it works.
What wrong reads did I give on people for bad reasons? Especially Koshi? I'd like some quotes on this please.
I will never keep up a fake claim more than I need to. Ever. I did it once before and it lead to this situation where I get tunnelled as obviously mafia but I wasn't. Not going to happen again and withdrawing the claim gives people the most information possible. Also pretty much makes me town by virtue of if I was mafia I would have almost definitely fake claimed medic.
I go back on my reads with VALID REASONS that not once have you questioned me to provide. I go back on Moosy because in a 50/50 between Moosy and slam I've had slak buddying me and Moosy doing the same but only posting about mechanics today and meta. Makes me feel uneasy. Just because at some point I called him definitely town it's just because I write with massive exaggerations and it IS what I felt at the time. After reassessing I come to a differing opinion.
I don't push falsehoods on purpose. It's just what I remember someone doing off the top of my head. If it's wrong I've misremembered and I'm sorry for that. You can correct me. There's no mafia motivation behind pushing easily disproved facts. Just bad memory. If I continued to push falsehoods as gospel and bury people in quotes and yell and scream to lynch a person that's a completely different story and you'd be right. Passing comments that are wrong does nothing to further a mafia objective.
I didn't pass stuff off as semantics. I passed off you quoting like 5 individual lines from a post I make and saying "it's not an awful plan but it's not the MOST town favoured and it's SELFISH" as semantics. I don't really care if you think otherwise. It is most definitely nitpicking for no reason. You say to secure my lynch, I say useless semantics. I'd like to think I wouldn't push these things as mafia.
It may not be scummy to you but to me I'm town and you haven't once tried to reevaluate me. Other players in this game display towny behaviour and hold off and let me play and make a new evaluation. That is towny. Being wrong and aggressively pushing (often cherry picked) statements does not make you look town to me.
Page 63 is just repeating what you've said and basically said I play like town me.
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Now we've got that out of the way I'd really rather you link the most important posts on me as a case of sorts so other people can read it and then treat me as town for the rest of the cycle and live in a world where one of Moosy or Slam is mafia and think of why.
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On March 13 2018 20:00 Holyflare wrote:
That's not how you get someone lynched.
It is, actually. I've done it more times than I would care to count. And many, many times when I've caught scum, they've turned it into huge battles. I post a wall of text case against them. They post a wall of text defense. And the war is on, back and forth, over and over. And I get them lynched, when people see that I win the argument. That my points are better and stronger than my opponent's. I often don't need to make a post to any other player. I ONLY need to speak to my target, and defeat their counterarguments, when we go head-to-head. Your responses to my attacks on you are exactly what I would expect to see from a scum player trying to escape the noose. What else would you do, but try to defend yourself with the posts you made? What else would I do, but shoot them down with the posts I made? That's the game. Other people read the argument, and decide who is right and who is scum. That's the game.
On March 13 2018 20:00 Holyflare wrote:
I'm not mafia, you should ask me questions to try and reevaluate your stance.
I asked you questions, when your behavior was suspicious or confusing. You avoided answering them. When I pushed harder and got answers...they only made me think I'd been right to be suspicious, and only made me think that I could now understand why you'd avoided answering the first time. When you tried to scumread me, it was with falsehoods. When you tried to defend yourself, it was with falsehoods.
This latest post from you looks like an attempt to "play nice", calm me down, and get me to think in other directions, because you're not such a bad guy...you're just misunderstood. Just one problem: I was perfectly calm when I posted the case against you on Page 63, and I was perfectly calm when I made the posts against you on Pages 91 and 92 before you arrived.
People should read those posts, read the back-and-forth between us that followed, and decide whether I am right or wrong, about you being scum. Because "is n00bKing right about his scumread?" is now the most important question of the game to this point. Even moreso than if my target was someone else. If I'm right, nailing you to the wall is of added importance, because people keep saying things that make it sound like they have a shitty track record of successfully getting you killed when you're scum!
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On March 13 2018 20:09 Holyflare wrote:
I contradict myself because my mind changes based on new scenarios and me reading new things. Is it also an explanation that I'm opportunistic and mafia? Sure. There's also the explanation I'm town and looking at new things.
Do you think I'm not familiar with town players changing their minds? Of course town players get new information, step back, re-evaluate, and then reach new conclusions. I was just forced to do exactly that when DF's N2 medic save shattered my case against Moosy. When town players do that, I expect them to be able to explain their thought progression in a way that I can understand. When you try to explain away your contradictions, I cannot follow your thought progression. It simply looks like someone pulling a 180 because that's what's needed to get the next mislynch.
On March 13 2018 20:09 Holyflare wrote:
I said we shouldn't really kill Koshi yesterday and I even said his last post sounded sincere but I gave reasons to be hesitant. My preferred kill would have absolutely been slam
I do not believe you, and have said that if people go look at it themselves, I don't expect them to believe you either. Slam wasn't the kill you wanted, Koshi was the kill you wanted, and you got it. I predicted (before this Phase ever even began) that you would flip-flop on Moosy on Day 3 and try to make him the next kill, and now that's where your vote is, despite the fact that the night result is town-indicative for him, and despite the fact that you had been heavily townreading him earlier.
On March 13 2018 20:09 Holyflare wrote:
I've not really seen you mention [Alakaslam] once the entire game (you might have, it's not scummy for me to forget if you have) and it's weird because he is actually posting things. I'd like for you to explain why you don't want him lynched or comparatively what he's done that's towny.
What has he done that's towny? Nothing. Half his posts aren't even related to the game. Players like him (and Kelsier) are good early-game fallback options, because you're unlikely to get much out of them the rest of the game either. (EVERYTHING I said about my experiences with D1 no-shows having reduced value if they're town bore out, with Kelsier.)
So Alakaslam earns no Town points. Zero. And no scum points either, really. He's still at baseline. But I haven't listed 12 or 14 reasons to believe he's scum, like I have with you. You're nowhere near the starting baseline. So regardless of the fact that I cannot list any reasons to townread Alakaslam, he's not even in the same universe with you, in terms of lynch quality. He's a big fat nothing on my radar. You're a massive wad of scum indicators.
On March 13 2018 20:11 Holyflare wrote:
You're also doing the incorrect thing and not questioning me but instead talking at me. You'll never figure me out that way.
I have questioned you all game. And when you weren't refusing to answer, you were giving me answers that caused me to go from being suspicious of you to thinking you're definitely the Mafioso I've been looking for. I'll never figure you out this way? You're figured out. This is the part where I'm supposed to shift from figuring you out to defeating your attempts to evade the Noose.
You seem to now be pinning your hopes on the idea that the players in this game are too illiterate or too lazy to simply read what I've said and read what you've said and make a judgment on it. Guess we'll see?
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Ok just plead ignorance instead then. Fine by me.
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Also lol "I don't believe you" i regards to Koshi. What a novel response. Nice breath of fresh air. I will just say what you say repeatedly.
That isn't something to believe or not believe. Read page 11 of my filter and tell me I wanted Koshi lynched over consolidation on Slam. Just do it and prove me wrong.
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I don't think I've even ever explained my contradictions to you either.
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On March 13 2018 20:36 Holyflare wrote:
Now we've got that out of the way I'd really rather you link the most important posts on me as a case of sorts so other people can read it and then treat me as town for the rest of the cycle and live in a world where one of Moosy or Slam is mafia and think of why.
I'm very very sure you'd "rather" I would treat you as town for the rest of the cycle, and live in a world where you're not mafia.
If you're mafia.
But unfortunately for you, I understand that the pathway to the Town condition is to do everything I can to get you in that Noose. I've said where the *most* important posts on you are. They're on Pages 63, 91, and 92. But in actuality, ALL of the posts are important. They shouldn't just read my case against you, but also your defense, and my counterarguments to your defense. THAT'S THE GAME.
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Good for you then. Have fun shouting till you're blue in the face. People lynching me over moosy and slam are just playing badly imo.
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It's not like you're a medic and could have diverted from your plan at any point to medic me if you're so sure you know? I'd quite like if you did that tonight in fact.
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On March 13 2018 21:08 Holyflare wrote:
Also lol "I don't believe you" i regards to Koshi. What a novel response. Nice breath of fresh air. I will just say what you say repeatedly.
That isn't something to believe or not believe. Read page 11 of my filter and tell me I wanted Koshi lynched over consolidation on Slam.
Of course it is something to believe or not believe. Reading page 11 of your filter AND telling you that you wanted Koshi killed over Slam is something that was already done before you asked. Some of your posts from Page 11 of your filter are literally IN the case I've posted against you. You only suggested a kill on Alakaslam once, and it was NOT what you actually wanted. That's NOT complicated. All it takes is a single paragraph from a scum player saying something that doesn't reflect his actual desires. (omg, no one has ever seen that before!)
After trying to fight a consolidation for the ENTIRE Phase, with TWO (worse) alternative plans of action, you finally give in to a consensus kill at the end of phase, the target of which you expect will be the target you want: Koshi. And it WAS. As you'd convinced Vivax and FF to put their heals on him, and then FF never returned to participate in a switch.
As I've said, I will GLADLY welcome anyone or everyone to re-read the EoN sequence for N2, and I do not think you'll get ANYONE to believe that the kill you *actually* wanted was Slam, over Koshi. Page 11 of your filter shows you continuing to try and motivate people to kill Koshi (just as you had throughout the N2 phase, having named him the VT scum) *after* the ONE post where you ever suggested Alakaslam as a possible kill.
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On March 13 2018 21:16 Holyflare wrote:
It's not like you're a medic and could have diverted from your plan at any point to medic me if you're so sure you know?
And what good would that have done? You're not even trying, now.
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Without a doubt in my mind.
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On March 13 2018 21:09 Holyflare wrote:
I don't think I've even ever explained my contradictions to you either.
Why SURE you have! Did you already forget your FEEBLE excuses for stripping Moosy of the hard townread you had on him, at the very same time the apparent medic save from the night results derailed my case against him??
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On March 13 2018 21:27 Holyflare wrote:
Mafia would kill me
Now you're just insulting the intelligence of every player in the game.
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And also I didn't convince vivax and ff to vote koshi. They are independent thinkers who surmised for themselves that your case on me was not relevant and they didn't want to kill me and picked Koshi. I think Koshi was a perfect choice, I even outlined his contradictions and posted reasons why he was a good lynch UNTIL he gave me pause for thought towards eod where not one medic was trying to consolidate.
When I saw him being sincere I yelled for consolidation (on Slam but even if you think Koshi I still yelled for consolidation) TO AVOID mafia having extra night kills.
Df asked why I was so serious when Koshi was dying and I even implied as much that I thought his latest posts sounded sincere and so we should consolidate onto an unreadable slam. It wasn't just one post, it was multiple.
You even had an argument with me ABOUT lynching slam.
So, you posit that I'm constantly favouring mafia when instead I'm trying at every turn to hamper mafia's ability to get multiple non-informative nks.
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On March 13 2018 21:30 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2018 21:09 Holyflare wrote:
I don't think I've even ever explained my contradictions to you either. Why SURE you have! Did you already forget your FEEBLE excuses for stripping Moosy of the hard townread you had on him, at the very same time the apparent medic save from the night results derailed my case against him??
How did a medic save derail your case on moosy at all? What?
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It's probably really obvious but it's mainly because I didn't read anything you wrote (like seemingly a lot of people) because my eyes just glaze over reading confirmation bias and walls of text.
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Ok I read back. Just bad meta and association with df. Not anything relevant to his gameplay this game whatsoever. Carry on.
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EPT
