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On March 08 2018 06:10 rsoultin wrote:
Your criticism is both fair and logical but disregards that
1) I have not been here
2) When I came back I was clearly inclined to scumread HF which always beats out null reads...It being most alignment indicative for vivax to afk does not mean I thought he was more scummy ago than an actual scumread
3) When I came back I found it weird that vivax was only commenting on the beginning of the game while making reads on people that seeme only possible to come from later in the game...thus disjointed
1) You were here when you unvoted Vivax. If you had no better place to put the vote than the next no-show in the progression (Kelsier) then that's where it should have gone. If you did have a better place to put the vote (like a new scumread) then it should have gone there instead. Leaving yourself as a non-voter just looks like "Kelsier is where my vote was logically supposed to go next, but...I don't wanna."
2) Yet you voted against Vivax, and did NOT vote against HF.
3) Then you could have put your vote BACK on Vivax before leaving, instead of just threatening him about how you were tempted to. I don't get people's reluctance to just place a damn vote, but there's too much of it going in for me to label it as a scum-indicator.
Anyway, assuming we both survive the lynch, this discussion can wait til the Night Phase. It isn't something that needs to be occupying space in the thread while we're less than 2 hours from the lynch. And I won't get bug-eyed over any of it unless one of Kelsier/chaoser flips Red anyway.
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On March 08 2018 06:11 Holyflare wrote:
You can't say that mafia is disheartened by the game type earlier and then say that darthfoley doesn't look like scum because he appears disheartened, not cautious and isn't putting in effort.
It'll make more sense if you read all of it? He doesn't appear disheartened, and he's putting in more than no effort, even if it's fairly low effort. He's definitely NOT cautious. Like I said already, if he were disheartened and not wanting to put in any effort, why is he even making the posts he is, instead of just blending in with the other lurkers/no-shows? And if he's made the decision to make posts and play, and is scum, then why is he not more cautious?
On March 08 2018 06:12 Holyflare wrote:
I don't even know what your last post actually is. Is it a scum read or a town read? It's the first third contradicting what I said, the next third saying he's doing scummy things and the last third saying he's not mafia because he does scummy things?
Mmm, no. The first third contradicts what you said, the next third says he's doing things that are NOT scummy, and the last third says he doesn't look like Mafia to me because the things he's doing are NOT scummy (I have no idea where you would get the idea that I was labeling his carelessness as scummy. Quite the opposite.) All 3 parts are in accordance with each other. They all mean "this is a bad lynch unless you have reason to believe that a Town DF would be playing differently than this."
And you have now said that "When he has no drive, doesn't actually commit to anything and posts as he is then it's simply more likely that he's mafia." That's NEW information. And changes things.
Does anyone agree with HF's assessment of DF's play in other games?
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On March 08 2018 06:24 rsoultin wrote:
Not sure why you bothered posting it in the first place then but okay.
So I wouldn't forget to respond to you.
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Ok, I'm off.
On March 08 2018 06:32 n00bKing wrote:
Does anyone agree with HF's assessment of DF's play in other games?
Didn't see any backup on this, but to my eyes, the DF lynch doesn't thrill me.
The push on Tubesock has been going for a long time, without much result, so I guess it's not happening today.
##Unvote
Would love to see this happen:
##Vote: KelsierSC
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On March 08 2018 07:13 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2018 07:10 n00bKing wrote:Ok, I'm off. On March 08 2018 06:32 n00bKing wrote:
Does anyone agree with HF's assessment of DF's play in other games?
Didn't see any backup on this, but to my eyes, the DF lynch doesn't thrill me. The push on Tubesock has been going for a long time, without much result, so I guess it's not happening today. ##UnvoteWould love to see this happen: ##Vote: KelsierSC Why him over prpl?
...huh?
Because Kelsier was a no-show (in the game thread at least) and prpl wasn't. You act like one vs. the other is an equivalent choice. It's not.
If people want to make a big deal over this, I can explain further. But I would have thought that the reasons why you lynch a literal no-show (like Kelsier or chaoser) over someone who makes a few posts and then bails for the rest of the Phase (like prpl or damdred) were fairly obvious.
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On March 08 2018 07:26 rsoultin wrote:
I'll openly admit that I could probably be easily fooled by a scum df (and yes blatantly ignoring the claim cause whatevs) but I'm just not finding the arguments against him compelling when his read on me developed fairly naturally I thought.
There were arguments against him that I didn't find compelling either, obviously. But "ignoring the claim" is generous, because in a vacuum, it actually makes him more likely to be scum than if he'd not said it.
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On March 08 2018 08:11 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2018 08:03 darthfoley wrote:
Meh I thought we got him considering he was lurking at deadline I think he said he wouldn't be around maybe.
Looks like DF is right. Tubesock posted "GG" exactly on the deadline, so we know he was here. Not sure why he chose to not say anything else. I'll look at the last couple pages of the Day phase again, and see if there's any reason why it matters that he stopped posting.
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On March 08 2018 08:20 Vivax wrote:
In this case it might be smart to decide who gets vigged tonight. Assuming that df is town, we can decide that he can heal someone undisclosed. While town can direct the other two medics to kill someone voting or something.
No. BAD.
If DF is a legit Town medic, and the scum manage to guess who he heals, they can heal the same target, and kill him.
And if DF is a legit Town medic, but heals a different target than the other two Town medics, then if the scum manage to roleblock one of those other two Town medics, the kill won't go off.
The 3 Town medics should all choose the same target, as that will nullify both the scum roleblocker AND the scum medic, and it's like we have a reusable Vigilante, and they have NO roles at ALL.
If I'm missing something, then someone let me know. But otherwise, this should not even be a debate.
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On March 08 2018 08:58 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Also evidently this game is NOT as easy I thought it would be
On March 08 2018 09:13 Holyflare wrote:
It is easy and you plebs switched off df.
Someone double-check me, please. But it looks to me like the only player who switched off of DF was Vivax.
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On March 08 2018 09:29 Holyflare wrote:
When Tubesock posted like halfway through the cycle a bunch of walls of texts that I glossed over and pretty much said "this says nothing and it's not towny looking" but amg insta switched and it came off as really odd timing back then. If amg is mafia it could have potentially been an "oh the guy is posting responses to me I have to look like I'm re-evaluating."
Eh. I didn't really dislike the timing of the switch so much as what just felt to me like hollow reasoning for the switch. I'll read his filter again in light of the fact that we know for sure that Tubesock was Town, but as a "quick take" AMG is a very low priority for me, and I wouldn't be wanting to see him overdosed by our medics tonight.
On March 08 2018 09:29 Holyflare wrote:
Noob just dropped tubesock for absolutely 0 reason when tube was the biggest wagon(????) and then voted his not even other scum read. Doesn't make sense. Then his defence of df looks fucking weird when he says it was a reason to town read df.
Either you misremember, or you are spreading misinformation, and there are NO other possibilities. So go look again.
Tube was absolutely not the biggest wagon, and there's a 0% chance I would have switched off the presumptive lynch and then left. Not only was Tube not in the noose at that time, but it wasn't a tie, either. DF had the vote lead.
If you read the hours leading up to the moment I said I was leaving, you'll see that there was exactly NO reason for me to think that Tubesock could wind up as the D1 lynch. None. At all. The only person to vote against Tubesock before I did (though for a very different set of reasons) was you, and you had turned your attention elsewhere, and moved your vote. The person who basically said "yeah, this" to my argument against Tubesock was AMG, and he not only moved his vote, but actually dealt Tubesock a townread! (Kudos to him on that, if AMG is Town himself.) 20 pages of me trying to pressure Tubesock resulted in there being all of TWO votes on him, at the time I left: Me and Moosy. And even me and Moosy were not making Tubesock a topic of conversation anymore, in the last few hours. Tubesock stopped responding to me, telling me pointblank that "that's all you're getting" and that wasn't helping me get any other people to put votes on him, and see if maybe they would respond to THEM instead. The discussion about Tubesock was history.
Y'all act like if I'd just left my vote on Tubesock instead of moving it to start the wagon on Kelsier, you'd have been happier! lol
But based on how things looked when I made my final post, leaving my vote on Tubesock would've been approximately as productive as leaving my vote on the Easter Bunny. That would have been poor play on my part.
Instead, I put my vote on the no-show, so that if no consensus on "who's scummy?" could be reached in the final hour, then people could use the fallback option of consolidating votes on the no-show (an option I'd already mentioned before, and an option that is pretty much "standard operating procedure" on the other website I play these games at). That's good play on my part.
On March 08 2018 09:29 Holyflare wrote:
Prplhz obviously for being hipster on tubesock.
"Being hipster" means what? Being "hip" to the fact that a push against Tubesock would be misguided? If so, sure.
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On March 08 2018 14:31 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2018 14:18 n00bKing wrote:On March 08 2018 07:13 Vivax wrote:On March 08 2018 07:10 n00bKing wrote:Ok, I'm off. On March 08 2018 06:32 n00bKing wrote:
Does anyone agree with HF's assessment of DF's play in other games?
Didn't see any backup on this, but to my eyes, the DF lynch doesn't thrill me. The push on Tubesock has been going for a long time, without much result, so I guess it's not happening today. ##UnvoteWould love to see this happen: ##Vote: KelsierSC Why him over prpl? ...huh? Because Kelsier was a no-show (in the game thread at least) and prpl wasn't. You act like one vs. the other is an equivalent choice. It's not. If people want to make a big deal over this, I can explain further. But I would have thought that the reasons why you lynch a literal no-show (like Kelsier or chaoser) over someone who makes a few posts and then bails for the rest of the Phase (like prpl or damdred) were fairly obvious. meh. I disagree with this. You get more information from killing someone who is a lurker from their few posts. There is always the possibility that a completely afk person continues to be afk in which case he'll be modkilled and we wouldn't have wasted anything on him.
You can't get as much information from killing someone who is low-activity as you can get from seeing what they say if they aren't DEAD. In my experience, people who are low activity usually tend to come back. And if they're Town, they can still contribute (they did show SOME interest in participating in the game after it started, at least, and they have seen SOME of what happened, as it happened) and if they're Scum, their posts will give you more opportunities to catch them. As well as more opportunities to see who they end up tied to WHILE you catch them.
Conversely, I've virtually never seen a total Day 1 no-show Town player come into the thread later, and then play like a rock star. Those players hadn't shown that interest in participating, and then by the time they come along, the thread is unwieldy, and reading filters doesn't yield context if you weren't following along at the time. Even reading the thread straight through may not yield proper context, if you aren't paying attention to timestamps the whole way too. The value to the Town of a Town player who no-showed Day 1 is LOW. But the value to the Mafia of a Mafia player who no-showed Day 1 is still HIGH. His value to his team erodes at a MUCH slower rate, and that doesn't even account for the possibility that the Mafia no-show has actually been participating in the scum thread while hiding from the game thread, in which case he's already adding utility for his team.
If Day 1 discussion yields a reasonably strong consensus of who to scumread, you always lynch that player first. If not, and there's a player with ZERO posts, you fall back on lynching him, over players who are merely low-activity. That's the way the game was taught to me, and I feel like the logic is sound. My attempts to get votes onto Tubesock *lost* ground, and then stalled altogether, as he ceased to even be a topic anymore. I didn't like lynching the counterwagon, so I went to the no-shows and picking Kelsier over chaoser made good sense to me for reasons that I hopefully don't need to repeat to you.
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On March 08 2018 15:42 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2018 14:33 n00bKing wrote:On March 08 2018 07:26 rsoultin wrote:
I'll openly admit that I could probably be easily fooled by a scum df (and yes blatantly ignoring the claim cause whatevs) but I'm just not finding the arguments against him compelling when his read on me developed fairly naturally I thought. There were arguments against him that I didn't find compelling either, obviously. But "ignoring the claim" is generous, because in a vacuum, it actually makes him more likely to be scum than if he'd not said it. I don't agree. Maybe I'm not seeing something important, though.
Like so many things in Mafia games, it's all just math.
We had 10 Town players, 3 were medics. Any given Town player has a 70% chance of being Vanilla. If we're about to mislynch a Town player, there's a 70% chance he's Vanilla. I'll assume that a Vanilla under duress would not fake-claim Town medic, in this setup. 3 Town players can claim Town medic, when under duress. 3 mafia players can fake-claim Town medic, when under duress. 6 players can claim Town medic, 3 are scum (50%). Yet scum make up only 3 of the 13 players (23%).
So in a vacuum (if you disregard all other factors), when a player under duress claims Town medic, the likelihood of him being scum more than doubles. If you're going to leave him alive, you need to feel like you have reasons to townread him. You felt like you did, I felt like I did.
Vivax didn't, since he was *already* voting against DF *before* the claim that *increased* the chance of DF flipping Red. That sticks out to me in a major way, and is why I wanted to make double-sure Vivax is the only one who did it.
On March 08 2018 15:42 rsoultin wrote:
Also you're right about the triple stack medic being smarter.
*thumbs up*
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So do we want our dudes claiming medic to go first, when talking about who to overdose on N1? Do we want them to go last? Think it'd be good for them each to at least put forth one target they wouldn't mind hitting, besides each other. Since we ultimately want every *Town* medic to follow Town sentiment.
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On March 08 2018 18:12 MoosyDoosy wrote:
prepare yerselves for endless shitposting from the master of shitposting
urstruly
moosydoosy
How come absolutely nothing came of this? Couple of all-caps posts about how you're about to go berserk, and then this, and then...fizzle.
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On March 08 2018 20:29 AMG wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2018 19:47 Holyflare wrote:
I like him. Annoyed he didn't vote df but haven't been able to check why he switched yet. He went after n00bking who voted for an AFK slot.
Which in no way explains why his vote just stayed on me, instead of going somewhere that had anything to do with the EoD.
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On March 08 2018 22:51 Vivax wrote:
And his rebuttal to the suggestion that we direct medics except darthfoley guarantees that nobody is protected tonight.
Yep. My rebuttal is also the right course of action. You can agree with me or be wrong. *shrug*
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On March 09 2018 02:24 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2018 02:20 n00bKing wrote:On March 08 2018 18:12 MoosyDoosy wrote:
prepare yerselves for endless shitposting from the master of shitposting
urstruly
moosydoosy How come absolutely nothing came of this? Couple of all-caps posts about how you're about to go berserk, and then this, and then...fizzle. Same could be said for you. Your lynch is on the table but your involvement seems less than D1 to me. Plenty of things to talk about, why just randomly point at moosy for an unfulfilled joke promise and then do nothing with it?
lol, I was responding to posts in the order they were made. Just as I've done the whole game.
And no, my lynch is NOT on the table. Not even you have tried to suggest that the medics target me tonight. And if you did, you WOULD get shut down.
I will nevertheless respond to your other posts, cuz that's just me.
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On March 09 2018 01:07 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2018 06:05 n00bKing wrote:Alright HF, you've said that DF's filter is "all just filler posts and no actual want to solve anything" and followed up later by saying "No drive, probably mafia." But we have plenty of players in the game who have shown no drive, or have put in no effort to solve anything, or have been no help. Kelsier and chaoser have been no help. prpl has been no help. I feel like Tubesock has been no help. When we're 46 hours into the game, I think you'd have to categorize Damdred (and his mighty single-page filter) as having been little or no help. If I lump DF into that category, it means that fully half of the other 12 players in the game with me have been no help. So I don't think DF's lack of drive automatically makes him a good lynch, unless you feel like a Town DF *would* show an actual "want to solve anything" and *would* show "drive." Is that the case? Because again, unless there's reason for you to expect more than this from a Town DF, then I don't see anything that makes this particular mole the one that needs whacking. His posting style is pretty careless. The filter is filled with him either repeating something he already said, or repeating something someone else already said. An example of him repeating himself is this post: On March 07 2018 07:27 darthfoley wrote:
n00b/rsoultin/AMG/Damdred is my town list ATM He'd already named all 4 of those players as townreads. No need for a new, distinct post that merely says the same thing. And an example of him repeating another player is this: On March 08 2018 04:49 darthfoley wrote:
FF's filter reads like he's heavily influenced by the slightest amount of thread sentiment.
he's talked about lynching prplhz, rsoultin, vivax, Tubesock, me with basically no explanation.
Which is basically everyone that has had any pressure on him/herself today. I'm fine scum reading him That post might as well be a copy & paste of Moosy's "King of Wagons" thing. (By the way, I think "Wagon King" would sound way cooler than "King of Wagons." Calls to mind the Witch King. Good stuff.) DF also parroted my verbiage almost exactly, when talking about prpl's "wishy washyness." I'd expect a little more caution and a little more mindfulness than this, from most scum players. If a scum player wasn't going to pay any more attention than this, why bother even making the posts? Just be yet another afk dude instead. Not just that. This post at the time when df had 3 votes and Noob was still on TS basically reads like him starting to want to defend df by dividing players by usefulness then starts summing up reasons for him being scummy instead.
Wrong. I gave ZERO reasons for DF being scummy at that time. And in the time since then, I've still only ever given one reason for him being scummy: He claimed medic while under duress. And amazingly, that's when you decided to take your vote off of him, and put it on me, a player who may as well have had the "lynchproof" ability.
On March 09 2018 01:07 Vivax wrote:But concludes with this: Show nested quote +
I'd expect a little more caution and a little more mindfulness than this, from most scum players. If a scum player wasn't going to pay any more attention than this, why bother even making the posts? Just be yet another afk dude instead.
So he took the argumentation for DF being mafia and concluded the opposite cause according to him there were enough afks for df not to post anything. Too scummy to be scum while he could be afk.
WRONG. That's NOT argumentation for DF being Mafia, it's argumentation for him being Town. I said he shows no caution, I said he's careless. He barely paraphrases his own posts and makes them again, not caring who notices. He barely paraphrases points that have already been made by other players and makes them again, not caring who notices. In the case of him talking about prpl's wishy-washyness, he not only rehashed what I said, he even used my same wording! New posts, but no new information, and NO shame about it.
Is this Mafia-type behavior, but SOOOO much of it, that it makes him "too scummy to be scum"? NO! It's TOWN-indicative, because it all reflects the mindset of someone who isn't afraid of being caught. A scum player thinks of something to post, then thinks *about* it (then maybe thinks about it some more) and then decides whether to post it or not. A town player thinks of something, then posts it. A town player maybe forgets that he said it already, because he's not carefully monitoring his own posts. A town player says things that someone else already said, because he hasn't pressured himself about how "I better try to look like I'm thinking for myself. I better generate some original ideas here. I better make myself look like I'm investigating."
AMG (who I still continue to townlean) struck me the same way, with a post that essentially read to me like "I'm not going to create original content just for the sake of it, if someone else already said what I think. If you don't like it, too bad." I don't see scum players with that outlook too often. I see town players with that outlook all the time.
DF's recklessness is not a scum trait that he just displayed "too much" of. It's a Town trait.
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I said this long before making the switch from Tubesock to Kelsier:
Lynching an afk player at the end of D1 is not the same as chucking the cycle away. All of the D1 discussion and voting still happened (and analysis of it can still have value) even if you settle on a player who hasn't posted, at the end. The only thing that would marginalize the value of the D1 discussion is if everyone knew throughout the phase that ultimately an afk player will be lynched. That definitely has not been the case in this game. Additionally, for a player who isn't posting to flip scum in this game may not be "just dumb ass luck." While rsoul said that no-showing the game thread was more scum-indicative for Vivax and Kelsier than it is for chaoser, I think no-showing the game thread can be scum-indicative in THIS game, for ANY player, regardless of that player's personal history, given the fact that so much of the pre-game discussion revolved around the idea that the setup is heavily town-favored. Under those conditions, any player who pulled a scum role could be more likely to no-show the main thread than they ordinarily would be.
I spoke of reasons why no-shows are good lynches, and I specifically mentioned the strategy of consolidating votes on a no-show at the end of the phase if a consensus scumread could not be found (which, again, is the standard operating procedure where I normally play).
For someone to act like my switch to Kelsier just came out of nowhere, they need to have either not been paying attention, or just pretending they weren't paying attention. Which one are you, Vivax?
On March 09 2018 00:55 Vivax wrote:
Paragraph 1: Explains he doesn't care that he thought prpl was scummy cause he's lynching for information and KSC is better in that regard. Doesn't make the slightest sense but whatever. Basically it's banking on KSC never posting for the rest of the game and an overly worded afk policy lynch.
Good lord. This isn't even just "twisting" my words, it's putting words in my mouth that literally were never there. At what point did I supposedly ever say that I thought prpl was scummy, until after the tubesock flip? Nowhere did that ever happen, in D1. I challenged rsoul to give her reasoning for townleaning prpl, because I did not think he'd done anything to warrant a townlean. There was NOTHING to like, about his posts. I then argued with Tubesock about HIS townread on prpl, because again, I did not think prpl had done anything to warrant a townread. There was nothing to like. Tubesock argued that if prpl were scum, he would have come down more firmly on one side or the other, instead of straddling the fence. I said something like "so wishy-washyness is a town trait now?" Because it's not Town-indicative. Mafia players can straddle the fence too, not JUST town players. And yes, Kelsier was a better lynch for information, among other reasons to lynch him over either of prpl or Damdred. And no, it doesn't bank on Kelsier never posting for the rest of the game. It banks on the notion that if he returns and he's Town, his value to the Town team is likely to be drastically lower than his value to the Scum team if he returns and is Scum. IF he is Scum, then for all I know, he's been following the game and participating in the scum thread the whole way.
On March 09 2018 00:55 Vivax wrote:
Paragraph 2: Something about his subjective experience about what players do who don't participate D1 as further justification.
lol, yeah. Our own personal experiences will weigh into basically every decision we ever make in these games.
On March 09 2018 00:55 Vivax wrote:
Paragraph 3: The bolded stands for b as in bullshit cause we've had discussion revolving around tubesock, prpl to a lesser extent, df all day and Noob basically ignored all of that in his decision on who to put his vote on. And that's already an invalid premise to his entire paragraph since he's claiming there was no consensus anywhere when he was in the thread while df had 3 votes and was leading wagon if I recall correctly.
Yeah, there'd been discussion about tubesock, with ME largely driving it. Discussion which had STALLED, before I relented and took my vote off of Tubesock (since, as I said, having my vote on Tubesock looked about as productive as having my vote on the Easter Bunny) and moved it to somewhere that it could actually factor into the D1 lynch: Onto the no-show fallback option. 3 votes on DF is hardly any kind of "consensus" in a 13-player game, and prpl never even had *that* many votes on him (and was a worse D1 lynch candidate than prpl for reasons already outlined).
DF is even less of a "consensus" pick at 3 votes, when you consider that rsoul and I both opposed his lynching. Holyflare was trying to get DF into a noose. Which 2 players would hinder that goal the MOST, if there were to be resistance from them? I'd posit those 2 players would be...rsoul and myself. Those were the 2 players it would be toughest to force a lynch past, if they didn't want it. Because we were 2 of the most active players, and we were 2 players who were being widely townread (especially me). It's going to be tough to get the rest of the players to fall in line with a DF lynch, if they are townreading me and/or rsoul, and know that we think DF isn't a good lynch.
Kelsier was a good lynch. Why him over prpl? To reiterate...
1) A player who knows Kelsier better than I do (rsoul) had told us that a no-show from HIM is more scum-indicative than the baseline (and hence, more scum-indicative for him than for chaoser, who she didn't seem to know much about).
2) I had already described why I thought a no-show from any player in this game is more scum-indicative than the baseline (based on the setup), regardless of their personal history.
3) I have explained why I think lynching a no-show is preferred, over lynching a low-activity player. I've said that's how I was taught, and I've said I think the logic is sound (it has also yielded good results for me).
4) Pushing a prpl lynch past rsoul would have been difficult for the same reasons pushing a DF lynch past her would have been difficult. She expressed that she didn't want it, she was being townread by a decent portion of players, she was active, and her posts were mostly being respected (with only HF being dismissive, and other players generally acting like her opinions are worth considering and reacting to).
5) But despite #4 above, if she doesn't want a Kelsier lynch...there isn't shit she can do about it. If she's scummates with DF, she can argue against the lynch, and make it sound good. If she's scummates with prpl, she can argue against the lynch, and make it sound good. If she's scummates with Kelsier? She's STUCK. Because she'd already said that the no-show was scum-indicative for Kelsier and Vivax. When pushing Vivax into a noose didn't work, she failed to move on to Kelsier. But she sure as hell can't try to save him.
6) Based on #1 and #5, seeing Kelsier's flip actually helps me fine-tune my read on another player too! Regardless of his alignment. That is NOT a luxury you always get, in a Day 1 lynch.
Now, I have already said I agree that with the benefit of Tubesock's flip, prpl's comment on how a push against Tubesock would likely turn out to be wrong, could be reflective of "TMI." prpl is a better kill now, than he was on Day 1.
Kelsier was already a good kill on Day 1, and he is ALSO a better kill now, than he was on Day 1. Day 1 we have no indication of whether he's a scum player that is just avoiding the main thread, or if he's legitimately no-showed the game so far. If it's the second one, we may never see him at all. If it's the first one, we KNOW we will. He'll show up sometime in N1 and make some posts, and prevent the mod-kill. And...here he is! His return to the thread during N1 mathematically improves the odds that he is Scum.
It also occurred to me during Day 1, that if there was exactly (and only) 1 mafia member in the Vivax/Kelsier/chaoser grouping, then that guy could easily have decided that he wasn't going to make a post in the main thread until both of the other 2 had shown up. As long as you're not the only one doing it, go ahead and ride it as long as you can. Vivax shows up, still no Kelsier. Alakaslam shows up...and it magically summons Kelsier, not even an hour later. A lurking Scum Kelsier is basically coerced to go ahead and enter the thread at that point (as opposed to waiting until later in the N1 phase) or we will begin to wonder why events have transpired as they have, instead of another way.
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On March 09 2018 03:41 Vivax wrote:This is from your post where you reply to HF about DF. Show nested quote +
So I don't think DF's lack of drive automatically makes him a good lynch, unless you feel like a Town DF *would* show an actual "want to solve anything" and *would* show "drive." Is that the case? Because again, unless there's reason for you to expect more than this from a Town DF, then I don't see anything that makes this particular mole the one that needs whacking.
Technically the reason is that he is a type of player who is held at a higher standard regarding activity and post quality.
lol, IF THAT'S TRUE, then I wish someone had actually said so, when I asked someone (ANYone) in the thread to back that notion.
On March 09 2018 03:41 Vivax wrote:
Me, HF and rsoultin all noticed something being off about him pretty quickly. Yet here you are asking a question that doesn't want an answer about whether he is lackluster compared to his other town games
How is that a question that doesn't want an answer? Man, if I don't want an answer to that question, I can just NOT ask it. That would be REAL easy. Or I could have waited to post it until much later, and allowed less time for people to see and comment on it. I didn't. There was plenty of time for people to see and comment on it, and then for us to decide how/whether it should influence the notion of a DF lynch.
It wasn't a question that doesn't want an answer. It was a question that didn't GET an answer.
Vivax wrote:
So either you are unbelievably stubborn and tend to think the opposite of the majority for no apparent reason, or you just make up your reads. Tending towards the latter but I'm also biased at this point :>
If DF ever turns out to be scum, and you and I are both still alive, we can have a conversation about me forcing a townread on him against your alleged "majority" (which was actually like 3 people). If DF ever turns out to be town, I think that conversation is over. I can't really see any way to scumread me for: abandoning my original lynch target with 1 hour to go (who was Town) and defending the counterwagon (also town, in this hypothetical) and then leaving, and just crossing my fingers and hoping the noose doesn't fall onto one of my teammates. Working to keep DF out of the noose in that scenario couldn't possibly make less sense, especially once DF claims medic, which would've made it trivially easy to just go "oh, you're claiming medic? That makes you mathematically more likely to be scum now. Die." Boom, dead Town medic, and a BULLETPROOF alibi for me sticking him in the noose.
On March 09 2018 03:41 Vivax wrote:
Who would you vote to vig tonight?
The kills I like are prpl and Kelsier.
I maintain that I do not like the idea of having DF go off and heal a secret target of his choosing. I maintain that HF is actively damaging the Town's best interests, if he refuses to follow thread sentiment regarding his target.
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EPT
