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[N] TL Mafia LXXV - Page 190

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9846 Posts
June 21 2017 02:54 GMT
#3781
On June 21 2017 08:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Like literally Rels, you have made a case on Ruxxar that is basically "(1) he is trying to lynch his top scumread with (2) a bad case".

Now:

What is scummy in (1)?

Why is this a bad case:
*I took away the "he hammered town" part because that's actually a thing that never makes anyone mafia*
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2017 22:24 ruXxar wrote:
[.....]

2) He doesn't try to solve the game.

How many scum reads did he have the whole game? Let's see:

DF:

On June 15 2017 04:10 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 15 2017 03:57 darthfoley wrote:
On June 15 2017 03:57 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 15 2017 03:49 disformation wrote:
@xata: ruxxar gave his reason to vote koshi later on.
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:05 ruXxar wrote:
I have read Koshis filter and determined he is mafia.

##vote koshi


Care to elaborate?

Oh also ##vote ruxxar


Sure.

This post:

On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
On June 14 2017 19:49 Holyflare wrote:
Wow i got him boys.

Rayn comes in with the defence. Totes mafia too.

btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game.
You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense.
And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.


I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.

Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.

but as fefe pointed out:
On June 15 2017 02:40 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:05 ruXxar wrote:
I have read Koshis filter and determined he is mafia.

##vote koshi


Care to elaborate?

Oh also ##vote ruxxar


Sure.

This post:

On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
On June 14 2017 19:49 Holyflare wrote:
Wow i got him boys.

Rayn comes in with the defence. Totes mafia too.

btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game.
You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense.
And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.


I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.

Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.

I actually like this explanation. Sorta wish you said this instead of just 'read Koshi's filter decided he's mafia' as now I'm suspicious you went back to read his filter after my post to find a post that is suspect.


For the second part:

People generally think this is scummy and it's not. It just generates suspicion because people don't like to see unjustified reads.

Mafia won't ever just carelessly throw out a scum read without giving any thought about how they are going to defend it unless they are under some kind of heavy pressure to produce a read.

Also I liked Ruxxar's reasoning for his Koshi vote.


who do you think is scum?

I'm kinda looking at you tbh.


On June 15 2017 04:38 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 15 2017 04:27 darthfoley wrote:
On June 15 2017 04:10 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 15 2017 03:57 darthfoley wrote:
On June 15 2017 03:57 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 15 2017 03:49 disformation wrote:
@xata: ruxxar gave his reason to vote koshi later on.
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:09 Fecalfeast wrote:
[quote]

Care to elaborate?

Oh also ##vote ruxxar


Sure.

This post:

On June 14 2017 20:22 Koshi wrote:
[quote]
btw if you type things like this, one might think you are just throwing suspicion around and not solving the game.
You can't call me 3p, and then call rayn mafia with me. I guess you can. But it doesn't make sense.
And I am pretty sure my play will not match mafia meta.


I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.

Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.

but as fefe pointed out:
On June 15 2017 02:40 Fecalfeast wrote:
On June 15 2017 02:32 ruXxar wrote:
[quote]

Sure.

This post:

[quote]

I don't like this statement. Comparing his own play to what an expected "mafia meta" is as a defense and validation of his own play seems like he's way too concious of how he's trying to project himself.

Add that on top of all his waffling reads between scum/town, and non-commital it makes it seem to me like he's trying to thread a golden middleground.

I actually like this explanation. Sorta wish you said this instead of just 'read Koshi's filter decided he's mafia' as now I'm suspicious you went back to read his filter after my post to find a post that is suspect.


For the second part:

People generally think this is scummy and it's not. It just generates suspicion because people don't like to see unjustified reads.

Mafia won't ever just carelessly throw out a scum read without giving any thought about how they are going to defend it unless they are under some kind of heavy pressure to produce a read.

Also I liked Ruxxar's reasoning for his Koshi vote.


who do you think is scum?

I'm kinda looking at you tbh.


Look at me as much as you like, but why?

I'm mostly just looking for someone kinda in the middle blending in.


Disfo:

On June 15 2017 07:36 Grackaroni wrote:
I like Rayn too though. And I'm ok with a Disfo lynch.


HF:

On June 16 2017 07:32 Grackaroni wrote:
Holy flare seems like a very good vote. He's being ridiculously over the top trying to push this SL lynch.

I haven't liked either of his Vivax/Koshi pushes. And he dragged the Vivax one out for the hell of it.


On June 16 2017 07:10 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 16 2017 06:58 annul wrote:
not at all. i am 1 switch away from majority. with the tiebreaker being what it is, i have no choice.

i WANT to vote for koshi/ruxxar since they are both mafia and either is a fine kill. but alas.

Annul seems like an ok lynch to me. I dislike that he doesn't waver at all in his Koshi read after 10 pages of filter.

It would be worthwhile to check if he tends to be very confident in his reads as town, because his are still based on things from the early game.

I'm on my phone on a train, and the internet is not great.


"I'm ok with". "Seems like". There's 0 commitment to anything here. Just superficial non-sense without any substance.
So obviously he followed up and actually tried to push his scum reads? Nope.
Well, at least he voted for his scum reads? Nope.

It's like a total non-commitment to any of his "reads" and just screams "I'm just trying to blend in".

Explain me why this is a bad case?

I chose more hedgey language intentionally, especially in regard to Annul who I was only looking at because he was one of the vote contenders along with Xatalos.

It was a situation where I had to lynch between the two rather than start a lynch on someone like HF.
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
June 21 2017 03:23 GMT
#3782
Grack how is rels town
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9846 Posts
June 21 2017 03:36 GMT
#3783
I don't feel good about this whole situation really. I hate how easily people are going along with the idea that mafia must have put up a big fight to try to save Xatalos and therefore the late voters on Annul must be scum. I only know whether my vote is scum, but a large effort to save Xatalos is not the sense that I'm getting at all. I like Rels because he seems to at least be viewing things in a similar way to how I am rather than just pushing me and Eversince and going along with thread sentiment.

From the non-voters:
Vayne, Btdt, Tumblewood, Palmar, Chezitwo, Rayn.

I don't think any of these non-voting people have been overly townie and there's probably a lot of scum in this group.

I really haven't been feeling very motivated this game or the end of the last one and will probably stop playing for a while due to burn out (as either alignment).
Eversince
Profile Joined October 2015
Philippines2301 Posts
June 21 2017 03:42 GMT
#3784
Grack why did you push Annul over Xata?
Life's too short to be black and white. Make the world tie-dye!
Eversince
Profile Joined October 2015
Philippines2301 Posts
June 21 2017 03:42 GMT
#3785
From that time, what was your thought process that lead up to the Annul choice more than Xata?
Life's too short to be black and white. Make the world tie-dye!
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9846 Posts
June 21 2017 03:46 GMT
#3786
On June 21 2017 12:42 Eversince wrote:
Grack why did you push Annul over Xata?

I thought Xata's filter looked pretty bad but not so bad that he would get undue attention compared to some other people. I didn't like that Annul was so confident in his Koshi push because it seemed like he was still pushing Koshi from things that happened earlier in the game rather than considering the additional 10 pages or w/e of Koshi posts that happened after he talked about his read.
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9846 Posts
June 21 2017 03:51 GMT
#3787
On June 21 2017 12:42 Eversince wrote:
From that time, what was your thought process that lead up to the Annul choice more than Xata?

I don't know. I came back at the end of the day and had to filter to make a choice between the top lynch choices. I didn't think it was all that likely that either would flip scum but I had to make a choice between the two.

HF caught my attention because he was being a lot more pushy at the end of the day than he has been in recent games that I've played with him.
Eversince
Profile Joined October 2015
Philippines2301 Posts
June 21 2017 03:54 GMT
#3788
That's cutting corners.
On June 16 2017 07:30 Grackaroni wrote:
Xatalos was pretty meh. I legitimately don't think he has been any more meh than disfo. The one scum game I remember from him he played a very aggressive style.
You thought Disfo's filter was worse than his. Seemed more like you gave him a pass based on "not matching his meta" than a "looked pretty bad" Considering you basically lynched Annul for being tunneled?
Life's too short to be black and white. Make the world tie-dye!
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9846 Posts
June 21 2017 03:55 GMT
#3789
On June 21 2017 12:54 Eversince wrote:
That's cutting corners.
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2017 07:30 Grackaroni wrote:
Xatalos was pretty meh. I legitimately don't think he has been any more meh than disfo. The one scum game I remember from him he played a very aggressive style.
You thought Disfo's filter was worse than his. Seemed more like you gave him a pass based on "not matching his meta" than a "looked pretty bad" Considering you basically lynched Annul for being tunneled?

I thought Xata's filter looked pretty bad but not so bad that he would get undue attention compared to some other people.
Eversince
Profile Joined October 2015
Philippines2301 Posts
June 21 2017 03:55 GMT
#3790
Also it's fair to say that Disfo had already set a standard that would be hard to play at so how was Xata looking better than him?
Life's too short to be black and white. Make the world tie-dye!
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9846 Posts
June 21 2017 04:01 GMT
#3791
That's a difference of opinion. I think Disfo looked pretty bad and still think so from when I was looking at the end of day 1 earlier.
Eversince
Profile Joined October 2015
Philippines2301 Posts
June 21 2017 04:02 GMT
#3792
On June 21 2017 12:46 Grackaroni wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2017 12:42 Eversince wrote:
Grack why did you push Annul over Xata?

I thought Xata's filter looked pretty bad but not so bad that he would get undue attention compared to some other people. I didn't like that Annul was so confident in his Koshi push because it seemed like he was still pushing Koshi from things that happened earlier in the game rather than considering the additional 10 pages or w/e of Koshi posts that happened after he talked about his read.


Wait wait though, didn't you just post a scum read on VA for something VA did at EOD an entire night cycle and half a day ago? And if you didn't really think either would flip mafia why vote for either then? If you didn't think mafia was in it you should of voted on HF. That's the bigger thing here. You voted on Annul for being tunneled you say then that Xata isn't playing his scum meta, now his filter looked bad but not for the amount of attention that he got. HF you're only scum read that got more than a "meh" labeling out of you was ignored? Why?
Life's too short to be black and white. Make the world tie-dye!
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9846 Posts
June 21 2017 04:04 GMT
#3793
On June 21 2017 13:02 Eversince wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2017 12:46 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 21 2017 12:42 Eversince wrote:
Grack why did you push Annul over Xata?

I thought Xata's filter looked pretty bad but not so bad that he would get undue attention compared to some other people. I didn't like that Annul was so confident in his Koshi push because it seemed like he was still pushing Koshi from things that happened earlier in the game rather than considering the additional 10 pages or w/e of Koshi posts that happened after he talked about his read.


Wait wait though, didn't you just post a scum read on VA for something VA did at EOD an entire night cycle and half a day ago? And if you didn't really think either would flip mafia why vote for either then? If you didn't think mafia was in it you should of voted on HF. That's the bigger thing here. You voted on Annul for being tunneled you say then that Xata isn't playing his scum meta, now his filter looked bad but not for the amount of attention that he got. HF you're only scum read that got more than a "meh" labeling out of you was ignored? Why?

Koshi posted lots of things since then and Vayne hasn't?

I don't see the point in throwing away my vote when HF wasn't going to be lynched.
Eversince
Profile Joined October 2015
Philippines2301 Posts
June 21 2017 04:04 GMT
#3794
On June 21 2017 13:04 Grackaroni wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2017 13:02 Eversince wrote:
On June 21 2017 12:46 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 21 2017 12:42 Eversince wrote:
Grack why did you push Annul over Xata?

I thought Xata's filter looked pretty bad but not so bad that he would get undue attention compared to some other people. I didn't like that Annul was so confident in his Koshi push because it seemed like he was still pushing Koshi from things that happened earlier in the game rather than considering the additional 10 pages or w/e of Koshi posts that happened after he talked about his read.


Wait wait though, didn't you just post a scum read on VA for something VA did at EOD an entire night cycle and half a day ago? And if you didn't really think either would flip mafia why vote for either then? If you didn't think mafia was in it you should of voted on HF. That's the bigger thing here. You voted on Annul for being tunneled you say then that Xata isn't playing his scum meta, now his filter looked bad but not for the amount of attention that he got. HF you're only scum read that got more than a "meh" labeling out of you was ignored? Why?

Koshi posted lots of things since then and Vayne hasn't?

I don't see the point in throwing away my vote when HF wasn't going to be lynched.


You're not throwing away your vote if you don't think either is mafia. You're simply not lynching town.
Life's too short to be black and white. Make the world tie-dye!
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9846 Posts
June 21 2017 04:07 GMT
#3795
On June 21 2017 13:04 Eversince wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2017 13:04 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 21 2017 13:02 Eversince wrote:
On June 21 2017 12:46 Grackaroni wrote:
On June 21 2017 12:42 Eversince wrote:
Grack why did you push Annul over Xata?

I thought Xata's filter looked pretty bad but not so bad that he would get undue attention compared to some other people. I didn't like that Annul was so confident in his Koshi push because it seemed like he was still pushing Koshi from things that happened earlier in the game rather than considering the additional 10 pages or w/e of Koshi posts that happened after he talked about his read.


Wait wait though, didn't you just post a scum read on VA for something VA did at EOD an entire night cycle and half a day ago? And if you didn't really think either would flip mafia why vote for either then? If you didn't think mafia was in it you should of voted on HF. That's the bigger thing here. You voted on Annul for being tunneled you say then that Xata isn't playing his scum meta, now his filter looked bad but not for the amount of attention that he got. HF you're only scum read that got more than a "meh" labeling out of you was ignored? Why?

Koshi posted lots of things since then and Vayne hasn't?

I don't see the point in throwing away my vote when HF wasn't going to be lynched.


You're not throwing away your vote if you don't think either is mafia. You're simply not lynching town.

Voting on somebody that isn't going to get lynched rather than voting between the two people getting lynched is absolutely a throwaway vote. I don't see how you can argue otherwise.
Eversince
Profile Joined October 2015
Philippines2301 Posts
June 21 2017 04:09 GMT
#3796
Ok, changing gears, what else other than Annul's 1 read made him worse than Xata's "pretty bad filter"?
Life's too short to be black and white. Make the world tie-dye!
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9846 Posts
June 21 2017 04:14 GMT
#3797
That was my reasoning for choosing Annul over Xatalos...

If you want to vote for me then just do it. We're not going to accomplish anything with these questions.
Eversince
Profile Joined October 2015
Philippines2301 Posts
June 21 2017 04:18 GMT
#3798
If a dirty filter can outweighed by one bad/tunnel read. You're either mafia or anti town.
You're boring
Life's too short to be black and white. Make the world tie-dye!
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9846 Posts
June 21 2017 04:22 GMT
#3799
It's not a matter of one bad tunnel. His whole focus was two tunnels (Koshi/RuXxar) based on early game things that made it look like he wasn't weighing new information.
Eversince
Profile Joined October 2015
Philippines2301 Posts
June 21 2017 04:36 GMT
#3800
On June 21 2017 13:22 Grackaroni wrote:
It's not a matter of one bad tunnel. His whole focus was two tunnels (Koshi/RuXxar) based on early game things that made it look like he wasn't weighing new information.


Then why didn't you clarify this like way sooner? Because now you've had 100+ hrs to come up for a reason on it
Life's too short to be black and white. Make the world tie-dye!
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