Newbie Student Mafia XXVI

On June 04 2017 09:06 Holyflare wrote:
Lynch Tumblewood.

On June 05 2017 08:44 Holyflare wrote:
I mean when I read PB and if I want to imagine a world that he's mafia I can see his posts going through the back and forth and reaching the "correct" conclusions out of the blue in his posts.

But I don't know if that's based on a foregone conclusion or if it is actually like that.

On June 05 2017 18:39 beentheredonethat wrote:
hahahaha fidei

I would've never caught him

good job Onegu. I'll go back to my retard corner and await the mislynch :D

On June 05 2017 18:40 beentheredonethat wrote:
I still think PB is scum tho :O

And HF might also be because he was super duper late on Fidei

BH/Onegu town

On June 06 2017 10:39 Holyflare wrote:
By the way, this is a game wide announcement. If you are a cop/vigi/doctor/any kind of blue then you should absolutely out to cc Tumblewood. Today is the only day that this is acceptable because any later then we are forced to assume it's a mafia plan.

On June 06 2017 10:52 LightningStrike wrote:

Pretty sure they could just rb a person as often as they like.

On June 06 2017 12:01 Grackaroni wrote:
But Ritoky did something hypocritical so there's 100% chance of a shit fight this cycle.

First he came for the Tumblewood and I didn't care because I'm not the Tumblewood.

Then he came for the Lightningstrike and I didn't care because I'm not the Lightningstrike.

But then he came for me. This time it's personal.

On June 06 2017 13:35 ritoky wrote:


why are you inclined to not buy it without a cc?

On June 07 2017 03:06 beentheredonethat wrote:
Hahahahahahahahhaahah

there's a red check and a claim to vote for and PB is like "nah fuckit I'll vote btdt"

Also, I understand that your timezone doesn't match up with the start of the game, but what are you going to get by pushing me, who is not experienced at all at Mafia, and making me post more? What about the other half of the thread that isn't making any sort of post that you can push for more information as well?

I'd also like to give Fidei the benefit of the doubt b/c I was cited in the past as acting pretty scummy here when I was floundering about from inactivity and lack of confidence. I would rather have on the board some confidence and a deconstruction of my post from Fidei to support your scumtell so you can push it harder to let me argue and refine your read on me.

yet btdt and fidei are readily pressuring me either for explaining my situation, or calling me scummy by making conclusions from my post that I can't really see from rereading my post

Fidei might be scum, but I'm not sure. I find it really suspicious he's not giving me a benefit of the doubt and looking to push me as scum with one post on my end. Not saying I deserve a free town pass because I suck and I'm a newbie, but my experience in 2012 showed me that most experienced players ignored me as just that: a newbie until it became important for me to step up and contribute.

PB are your thoughts on BTDT the same? I honestly don't see how his play works out by tunneling me-- I think it's just a weak play at best if I end up getting lynched and flipping town, so I'm inclined to believe he's town but idk. I don't think lynching him today is going to get us anywhere, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.

The two I think are Mafia are BH and TW.

TW because I didn't like any of his posts about town reads. He generally seems rather disinterested in doing anything on doing any useful reads, lazily labels people as town, doesn't build a case on anyone, and doesn't seem to do much except make the occassional post here and there.

I still find BH's play super weird-- comical or not (which I can't tell), he's been doing nothing as well and with the arguments happening here, I feel like making posts for people to push/question is the way to clear yourself up.

The last one is a pretty big tossup, but I'm leaning towards PB. He hasn't changed his view on BTDT and put off his analysis, but I'm not very confident on this one.

Also I don't think BTDT is mafia, which I mentioned at least once already. just that the tunnel on me felt weird, which is why I asked PB about his opinion on him

I'm placing a vote on PB.

I don't know if I should lynch TW with a blue claim, and for some reason BH is being fought over and makes me doubt if I'll really get anything out of a D1 lynch who made almost no informative posts and people fighting over his meta, which I have no idea about

PB still isn't here 24 mins before the deadline, so there's my vote. I'm boarding a flight now so I won't be available until after night.

PrisonBreak:

I really, really dislike his play. IDK if that’s because he’s just busy, he’s not caring as much about this game, or he’s scum trying to fly under the radar. I’m seeing a lot of disingenuous posts from him (saying he will post his reads later, still hasn’t done so) and then blames his inactivity based on something “not happening” when he checks the thread. Before the deadline he makes two posts on the vote count, doesn’t do anything to dissuade votes off of him, and doesn’t make any informative posts (Onegu/Tubesock is town—Onegu lead the “shenanigan” lynch whatever that is, Tumblewood is town). Questions Grack, makes some prods at BTDT and leaves.

His play looks really sloppy from what he did in Generic II, but honestly there were some easy questions I made to you that you could have answered way before deadline was approaching. I asked you to post reads and asked you why you still think BTDT is scum, and he just disappeared and posted whatever he did before deadline.

Really suspicious to me.

OK so I avoided reading TW because I thought he'd get NK'd with his doctor claim.. do we lynch him?

I'm super fine with lynching PB, this guy smells like scum. The overall tone of his post is so super soft, so not-pushy, so calm, so zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

really lynch pb

Here's where I'm at:

(no particular order right now)

Don't lynch:
Vivax
Fidei

Lynch:
Prison Break
+ Show Spoiler +

Tubesock
+ Show Spoiler +

Others:
Conversion - hmm. His filter is full of stuff, so there's more to read into, so I'd just wait a bit. The mobile stuff still makes me headache and I think he's getting away too easy with some stuff but I realize that this is super generic. I'm not filter diving him right now.

I still think PB is scum tho :O

And HF might also be because he was super duper late on Fidei

On June 07 2017 03:17 beentheredonethat wrote:

And he knows that from Generic II. This guy is absolutely scummy.

On June 07 2017 04:26 Prison Break wrote:
If Vivax flips scum I want to lynch Conversion

Any chance they'd both vote me yesterday? maybe trying to get my lynched over fidei

In that case I could maybe see btdt being town despite playing scummy, because he also wants to kill vivax here

On June 08 2017 05:59 Holyflare wrote:
It's not scummy in the slightest. I'm forfeit from ever being solidly town read in a game by virtue of just being too damn good at scum.

On June 08 2017 08:49 Vivax wrote:
Just lynch HF tomorrow.

On June 08 2017 08:57 Blazinghand wrote:


Thought process being used here:

1) assume Tumblewood is real Doctor
2) Assume we only have two blues
3) Vivax claims Cop
4) Now, a hidden Cop thinks, "Vivax must be scum, because I am the real cop"
5) Enough time goes by, if it looks Vivax won't get lynched, the hidden cop counterclaims to make it true
6) this is really convenient for Scum Vivax, because now his final teammate catches a cop
7) this gets averted by HF's fake blueclaim

not saying this is true, but this is the thought process

On June 08 2017 09:07 beentheredonethat wrote:

That never happened.

On June 08 2017 09:13 beentheredonethat wrote:

Can you please provide proof for the bolded part in the originally quoted post?

I still think PB is scum tho :O

On June 03 2017 21:32 Prison Break wrote:
Fidei86 calls too many people out for lurking extremely early game, unless if he's just trying to move the game forward in which case it's not a scumtell

Tumblewoods initial response seemed forced, but the way he got to a townread after it is something I see town do when they realize a push is bad, or scum when they fear people will be onto them. But if tumblewood was scum wouldn't he realize his push was thin to say the least? Like I don't see how he has scum would make such a push just to retract it after, I don't think there was enough pressure on him to already back off from it. Based on this I conclude his change of mind was genuine not calculated, so leaning town on tumblewood despite me not liking his post initially. At least he's also trying to move the game forward which is worth something.

going to throw this out here cause I may be able to get something out of it, and it may help me make reads on people as well: what are some ways to go about catching scum, especially early game? I don't expect/want people to make an entire list because mafia will adapt, but I think a few examples or short answers will help the game move forward. I'll start off, in my experience who I think are "extremely scummy" often end up being town, and the extremely active/inactives as well (although this one isn't a golden rule), and often the people I nullread end up being scum. I think this is because scum wants to blend in and doesn't try to play as townie or as scummy as possible but somewhere in the safe middle. I think last game that would be true for myself as well.

On June 04 2017 08:48 Prison Break wrote:
Voted beentheredonethat

Didn't like his initial "response" to me + his follow-up.

"shame on everyone who scumreads me D1. Everyone should know by now that I'm simply bad at this game."

Excuse to not take responsibility for bad plays so people aren't allowed to scumread him based on "bad play"

also a lot of other excuses for no play

"I'll check this thread every now and then for the next 4-8 hours but don't expect too much"

"no I haven't read the last 3-4 pages in a serious manner

yes I'm going to bed now

no I'm not scum"

this is lazy play at best, but I could see it being scummy play as well. making a few pushes, laying low, mentioning it multiple times which could be overcompensating (afraid people will look into it? we're in the beginning stages of the game so I doubt this many excuses are needed)

saying he's not scum obviously isn't a solid defense either

also to clarify my stance on Fidei86, I think what he did could be scummy, and "moving the game forward" was a possible counterargument. But I'm not saying he's actually moving the game forward, it was something I was considering at the moment and wanted to give more time. Fidei86 instantly gave beentheredonethat towncreds (while multiple people were suspicious of it), which stands out, as well as beentheredonethat "attacking me" after I "attack" Fidei86. Possible scumteam?

My 2nd choice to vote right now would be Fidei86. I think both Fidei86 and beentheredonethat are good vote choices right now.

On June 05 2017 08:44 Prison Break wrote:
I haven't caught up yet - didn't realize this was deadline + the thread would fill up this fast, so I don't have a list yet. I'll say some thoughts I have based on skimming through a bit:

I think HF is town

I think vivax my be scum I will have to filter him, or my initial scumreads (btdt, fidei)

I think btdt was extremely scummy so he would be my prefered lynch

No opinion on the others yet outside of my townreads I mentioned

On June 08 2017 05:24 beentheredonethat wrote:


The first person PB speaks about is Fidei. Within like 2 sentences, then goes on to rant a lot about how Tumbleweed is something? Only to never pick up his points on Fidei again, but of course pressuring me once he realized ritoky was after me.
He doesn't care to really push me though he's just happy to have his vote on me and doesn't care about much else.


he didn't

he did nothing (besides a votecount, wtf)


he didn't


It's even in the OP. Three. You should know. You played in Generic II, and you are coached, and you could've asked your coach about this, and you could've read the OP. This is a super constructed dumbtell.


You didn't try to kill him. In the final vote count, your vote is not on him. You also didn't push him.
+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler [Big wall of nothing] +


Okay, so you have lots of town reads, fine, but why don't you then filter the others who should at least be scummy to you then, right? right?


????? "Based on me scumreading BTDT and townrteading a bunch of others, I am not buying this claim!"

??????????

On June 05 2017 09:39 Prison Break wrote:
I mean how many scum are there. I assume 3? one was fidei. Maybe one was AFK. So you make any conclusions on this based off literally 1 person who did or didn't fight it?

On June 08 2017 09:52 ritoky wrote:
i think you're missing the point PB. i think he is saying fidei v pb doesn't exist because it doesn't in the sense of me and grack arguing or hf and vivax arguing. scum reading sum1 isn't an x v y. hell fid didn't have enuf thread presence to be v anyone.

btdt's case doesn't say anything about you not scum reading fid either, it is about lack of follow-up on your reads. he is saying "PB says things then never does anything about it". you didn't vote on fid nor were you actively trying to get people to vote on him like "HEY LYNCH THIS FUCKER HE NEEDS TO DIE NOW!" style even though he was your 2nd scummer.

as for flood control, it is less about post count and more that you feel disconnected from the game (at least to me). it's like there's a game going on and then you randomly appear posting a wall of text that is like 30 hours old and half of it is irrelevant now, and then you disappear without much interaction.

On June 07 2017 22:59 beentheredonethat wrote:

Oh in my thought experiment

To be honest I'd lynch you and PB over ritoky right now

On June 08 2017 05:34 beentheredonethat wrote:

Hm dunno to be honest

I'd say tubesock but he was #2 to jump on Fidei so - no.

hm I don't have a super clear "that guy is scum with PB" thought available, it's more like there's a range of people that could be it. That range is pretty much everyone except TW (claimed doc), Grack, LS, (HF)

Hf is brackets because he was super late on fidei
Grack/LS hammered fidei and I don't see scum do that

leaves a rather short range of people

On June 07 2017 17:24 Holyflare wrote:
If vivax is town 100% btdt is mafia.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/522886-newbie-student-mafia-xxvi?user=beentheredonethat&page=5

Whole filter is being a hipster calling vivax town against everyone, quoting posts to town read him and saying he'll lynch me first and vivax after.

On June 07 2017 17:35 Holyflare wrote:
And why am i suspicious if vivax is town? Nothing has changed.

On June 07 2017 18:01 Blazinghand wrote:
like just btw can we (and i know this isn't a binding rule) maybe not threaten to quit TL Mafia forever because of what another player is doing? like jeez the community is already small enough

On June 08 2017 04:22 Holyflare wrote:
It's all your fault.

Also tw isn't the unCCd doctor. He's mafia.

On June 07 2017 23:20 Conversion wrote:


Hi, do you want to actually make comments instead of linking GIFs? Unlike you I'm actually trying to learn how to play games in different situations and you aren't helping.

Did you think that was a slip? I'm literally quoting what someone else said

Was that a bad thing to mention as town because it makes me look suspicious?

On June 04 2017 23:41 Grackaroni wrote:
HF might be scum for still thinking Fidei is scum. It's hard to be that self-righteous as scum. I think I gave him/her an asthma attack.

I haven't looked into it but I don't think Fidei's flip will change much for you.

Also actually Prison Break looks good because I remember he had the smart reads on day 1. Ritoky was the one who shifted me more towards thinking Btdt was scum than Fidei even though they both actually had pretty bad posts.

On June 06 2017 04:58 Holyflare wrote:
PB is the guy that bussed me 24/7 last game and won it for us so I have no idea why you think his meek push makes him town when you were in that game

That was a bad bus though.

This sounds incredibly stupid for me to say now but imagine that I am town when I say this. Those are the two reads that I think I should have had at that point on day 1 and I'm realizing that the reason that I shifted more towards Btdt than Fidei was because of what Ritoky had said.

Obviously I can't prove this because I didn't put him in my scum list and all I said was that he was overly town read but those were the "smart reads" for that point in time and PB had them.

lol BH is actually town. It's still his fault for not making townie posts before this.

Actually I'm pretty sure Btdt rage quit for an entire cycle in the last game he won as scum

I don't either I think he's VT.

On June 07 2017 15:33 Grackaroni wrote:
If he is mafia this is a real fail play.

On June 08 2017 22:16 Tubesock wrote:


I'm looking for his rational for not voting Fidei. He said somewhere that Fidei was the one he pushed the most. But PB was there at eod and didn't vote him?

On June 09 2017 00:31 Holyflare wrote:
Being flood controlled doesn't stop you reading new posts though does it?

On June 08 2017 21:56 LightningStrike wrote:

If I had a gun to my head probably PB but it only because I townread the others and didn't really read his filter which I should do at some point.

On June 09 2017 04:04 Holyflare wrote:
Didn't someone say he did that as scum though? Where was that

On June 06 2017 11:59 Grackaroni wrote:
Actually I'm pretty sure Btdt rage quit for an entire cycle in the last game he won as scum

On June 09 2017 06:05 Conversion wrote:
I wrote some thoughts down today without editing or whatever so I guess I'll post it here.

players alive:
BTDT
Grack
ritoky
Holyflare
Blazinghand
Prison Break
LightningStrike
Tumblewood
Me!

BH/HF dies, or after N2 and someone else dies:

Tumblewood:

Need Tumblewood to “claim” who he saved. Was he RB’d again? Typical setup I assume includes a Mafia RB with a doctor—although, could he be scum saying he got “RB’d” to get a free townie pass? Brags about how good he is at mafia, flies under the radar, names people for an optimal lynch, but just hides under his doctor claim and really does nothing.

Pretty shaky at best if doc/RB doesn’t exist (I have no idea how setups work, so yell at me if I'm being stupid pls), when do we stop giving him a free pass because of his doctor claim, or do we just buy into him being doctor and not contributing to the game with his godly mafia skillz (self-proclaimed)

BH/HF:

Whichever one of BH/HF dies I’m inclined to look into, as both are pretty much in control of town’s direction and information. Very strong possibility of them working together for an endgame by establishing themselves as town leaders (although might be unlikely with the Fidei lynch.. although HF and BH both were not at the beginning of that wagon. this is a speculation at best I’d need to flesh it out more as BH pushed Fidei iirc)

Good possibility of TW-BH/HF team as well. Doctor claim could have been instrumented.. idk this is getting pretty tin foil hatty so I’ll stop

BTDT and PB might be just two townies bickering at each other at who is more scummy. TBH I’m not really suspicious of either of them. PB isn’t actively pushing for anything except replying to BTDT and BTDT is just tunneling in on PB. Not sure(?) why he’s not pursuing anyone else if there’s five people on his list, but eh.

Between these two I’m still more wary of BTDT, but his play seemed much better D2? Still flashes of his D1 “I’m insulted and I’m going to rage” in his last few posts, but honestly dude push other people than PB. You two are shitting up the thread by bickering with each other like HF and Vivax usually did. Push me, push LS, push anyone else on your list and stop quitting halfway through when people argue back. Why do you quote your list of 5 people that are unsure, go “this is a good list” and then not do anything but tunnel on PB for like 10 posts?

Tubesock is still my top town read.

Grack I still have no idea how to read. Lots of jokes, questions, a back and forth with ritoky, jabs here and there, more jokes. shrug. wants to lynch between me and ritoky and I’m town soo what makes me scummy and worthy of a D3 lynch Grack? How about ritoky? especially if you mislynch D3 you’re at LYLO (3 town 2 mafia, is LYLO, right?), assuming TW gets "roleblocked" again and we don't save anyone.

LS just seems lazy.. or doesn’t care as much. I know I stopped caring about D2 basically because game was unfun and I left it to grind other games. hopefully he’ll say more once we get the NK info and on D3.

I want to believe ritoky is town but I might just be biased because he guided me to make reads and helped me make attempts to contribute with reads, but his posts since then have been less than good.

Honestly after N2 I want to hone in on whatever TW is doing because it’s not much (if he’s not dead). I’m not sure why he’s being so inactive if being RB’d means he gets to live and make a lot of good townie plays with him not being NK’d if Mafia are just content. Whoever dies between BH/HF might be scum, but seems a little far-fetched, imo.

On June 09 2017 07:48 Holyflare wrote:
I'm having an issue of whothefuckismafiaitis.

On June 09 2017 07:53 Holyflare wrote:
I'm gonna lynch prison break because only bad guys need to break out of prison.

On June 09 2017 07:02 ritoky wrote:
btdt mafia cuz:

• his logic is backwards for a townie. he instantly snap makes conclusions, then seeks out justifications; read his defense of vivax, or his accusation of me. he post-fact creates a narrative to suit his conclusion.
  
• he states that HF is mafia for not sharing his read that fidei is town, but then after fidei is mafia he says "he had no strong read on fidei". if his read was not strong, then why was HF mafia for not sharing his read?
  
• he tried to have the shennanies land on PB, not fid. if you go look at the timings, the only vote on fid is 1gu, then he goes to place his vote on PB and try to steer votes there. while he is typing this, tubesock and TW vote on fid. after his post, he immediately "sheeps TW" on fid and rescinds basically all mention of PB other than 1 post in which he says "i had a bunch of people i don't care about and you were one of them"
  
• he claimed to have thoroughly read my filter, when he made a "case" on me, but was magically unaware that the thing he found me primarily suspicious for was something i had said 48 hours prior and he didn't think shit about it then.
  
• his defense of vivax came from a place that made absolutely 0 sense and reeked of TMI
  

On June 09 2017 07:57 Blazinghand wrote:


no like in my view onegu was a natural choice, right? he lead the fidei wagon and was universally townreaded. why is it weird that he was killed?

On June 09 2017 07:43 Grackaroni wrote:
I think some of Ritoky's accusations are fine.

I thought Fidei was town earlier in the day because he was pestering me for reads in a way that I thought would be coming from a townie. That impression wore off over time and I can agree with that being scummy.

I clearly was sheeping Tumblewood from like Onegu to PB to Fidei and for some reason he interprets that as me having a boner for PB. Maybe a misunderstanding. Maybe purposely misconstrued.

Then there are other things that are fluffed up nonsense that I think he says because he thinks they sound good rather than because he thinks they are good. Making snap conclusions and then justifications to suit my narrative is one of them, since what mafia plays like that?

On June 09 2017 07:09 ritoky wrote:
i also think that if grack flips mafia, pb is never mafia; but step 1 first.

On June 09 2017 07:54 Holyflare wrote:
yeh I saw criminals breaking out of prison

mafia scum!

On June 09 2017 09:03 Holyflare wrote:
I didn't shoot because I think it took away a mislynch if I missed and I couldn't be fucked with no information. I claimed because I was paranoid of a few things:

TW being mafia because he's doing absolutely shit all while a lot of people in this game I think are town.
Me being killed and people thinking I shot tonight but got rb.

On June 09 2017 12:13 LightningStrike wrote:

He was having second thoughts on me I think? Just so he get a confirmed read right. At least I know PB was having second thoughts sort of about my alignment.

On June 09 2017 12:19 Tumblewood wrote:
i take back ritoky being scum 90% of the time. it's hf and here's why:
- ritoky had grack as his #1 scumread two hours before deadline, and then claimed to have a green check on him later. much easier to not eliminate your top lynch candidate
- hf had some blue tells that any experienced scummer should have seen (among players still alive, that's ritoky, grack, and me on a good day), yet didn't die either night and wasn't roleblocked either
- hf didn't gain any advantage by hard claiming. he was hardly in danger of being lynched and still had his bullet. however, as scum he outs a blue and lynches potentially one or both blues

On June 09 2017 12:23 LightningStrike wrote:

Out of the blues that claimed TW first then HF then ritoky.

On June 09 2017 12:25 Grackaroni wrote:
Tumblewood automatically starts off as the most likely liar since we're still two lynches away from LYLO and the other two claimed from positions where they weren't under too much pressure while he claimed at the end of the day as the vote leader.

On June 09 2017 13:19 Conversion wrote:
so even at this point of the game you think LS has more thread presence than me? like his last few posts were literally nothing and his excuse was "I tend to sheep more as townie"

which is absolute bollocks to me because I have no idea what you normally do as townie.

for what it's worth I'm almost certain scum team is you and LS, but I'd rather have other people weigh in and read their decisions instead.

If anyone wants to know my reason why I think scum team is LS and TW:

Out of the 3 blues, TW is the most suspicious. This is the most active he's been because he realizes he can't just coast his doctor claim to LYLO and then win by convincing one of the townies.

I actually think that Fidei might have been inactive and when the shenanny happened, LS and TW made an executive decision to bus Fidei instead of trying to swing a 6-2 (7-2 with BH if he's on Fidei) onto a townie and possibly fail.

The fact that TW is completely ignoring LS town play and reading me, pb, and even tubesock before LS is suspicious to me.

good night peeps I'll catch up on the thread tomorrow.

On June 09 2017 18:10 ritoky wrote:
Re: ignoring the blues idea. I am not in a place where I can consider if there's any mechanical shenanigans we can do to game the system? I don't think there is a fool-proof one? From my PoV, there's no reason to lynch outside the claims. I have a 50% chance of hitting mafia today and a 100% chance of hitting mafia by tomorrow. Which guarantees us at worst a F5 with 1 mafia left; at best it's 1 mafia left and 1 blue alive tomorrow.

Plus I think with me narrowing the game down so much with checks on players who were probably in mafia's "lynchable" category; I won't be allowed another check. I think ignoring the claims will just have you waking up tomorrow with me dead and an entire phase of TW vs HF.

On June 09 2017 21:34 beentheredonethat wrote:
(for the record, conversion is really up in my town list by now)
(for the record, PB kinda disappeared again, just like he did when claim discussion D2 was going on)

I'm fairly confident that TW/PB is the scum team.

On June 10 2017 00:37 Holyflare wrote:
Ok op says that mafia can't hold their shot. I'm more than comfortable shooting someone absolutely at random to prove myself so that we lynch between ritoky/tumble the next cycle.

On June 10 2017 00:39 Holyflare wrote:
And lol the bh about to turn on me. I was trolling him at deadline, I didn't actually scum read him.

On June 10 2017 01:31 Holyflare wrote:
Also in so far as tw claiming rb all game, if he's the fake doc they could be paranoid of a vet and rb every person they kill and he just claims it.

On June 10 2017 04:02 ritoky wrote:


Why, and do you think LS would be more likely a partner for HF or TW?

On June 06 2017 07:53 Tubesock wrote:
Just in case:

PB - too sloppy from his last mafia game.
Conversion - he's trying for help and actually giving his thoughts. Too transparent for mafia.
HF* He's just too dangerous as mafia to not distrust at least a little bit. In any case I'm not going to lynch him till like D4/5.
Ritoky- I felt mindmelded + Show Spoiler +
Tumblewood - Uncc'd Doc but I don't think I'd out myself if I were the real doc just yet.
Onegu - started the successful shenany. It's certainly possible that he bussed for zero reason, but if he actually performs in the future, he's town.

LS- I used to think I could read LS. While his reasoning is "weird" his reads are / used to be actually good if you disregarded what he said and zero'd on just the names.

Mafias Most likely further down.

Grackaroni - mostly ignored because I still think BH is mafia. Take away BH though, and I don't see anything towny. I think his fight with Ritoky is pure OMGUS.

Blazinghand - at first I thought his jokes after the lynch made him town. His hyperawareness on how vote switching works (him telling Ritoky that if Ritoky jumped on the wagon after it was secured, it would have looked suspicious) tells me he is quite aware of his image. So, he's making sure everyone knows he's joking and trying to get us to like him. If he doesn't do anything next days we should kill him.

beentheredonethat- I think "emotional" outbursts is a terrible reason to town someone.
Vivax - I liked him until his weird shifts prior to the end of the day. His interaction with HF looked terrible.

On June 06 2017 08:32 Tubesock wrote:


You make jokes too!

On June 06 2017 16:08 Tubesock wrote:
basically, we lynch HF unless Vivax rescinds then lynch Vivax. HF flips mafia we celebrate or lynch Vivax after. If we decide to lynch Vivax first, and he is cop then we just gave mafia a free nightkill.

So, basically now we can just talk about who is the last mafia.

On June 07 2017 04:00 Tubesock wrote:
Mechanically this is an easy day. Lynch the red check.

But they're right on Vivax having a reputation for not doing anything as scum and this is a great way to both not do anything and destroy the town by killing its leader. Hmm

On June 10 2017 06:50 Tubesock wrote:


I would bus both TW and Fidei on D1? No one was paying attention to Onegu until I jumped on Fidei. The PB wagon was already trying to gain momentum I think, why wouldn't I have jumped on that if PB is town?

On June 08 2017 21:32 Tubesock wrote:


I'm starting to think more about BH. I realized I don't trust him. He's said pretty towny things and makes me laugh. He's really buddying up to you and I think that's shady. Reminds me too much of Darth P(something) and Geript. He gives the token "oh I distrust HF totally" blah blah but would follow any of your plays. I don't for a second think he's "keeping his eye on you".

Grackish. Sometimes I like what he says but most the time I don't like what he's doing. I've read his filter several times. I feel like I'm reading Batsnacks. His shit fight with Ritoky made me realize I need to reread them both. Grack reminds me of me sometimes. Some vet would scum me and I'd lose my shit because of some weird detail that no one gets and I shit the thread up. Grack says Ritoky is hypocritical for scumming him for not talking about Fidei. But to me it's pretty clear Ritoky is saying that Grack should have talked about him because he towned him enough to scum you for thinking F is scum. So I'm trying to reread and figure that out.

I just reread PB. Did you realize that about 90% of his posts are apology or excuses? Just count the ones that he's "I'm super busy" or some such thing. He's no dumby, if he has the terrible luck of rolling mafia twice in two games he knows he can't post like last time. His perfection was called out.

On June 10 2017 07:32 ritoky wrote:
the only things holding me back are a couple posts like this one:



like i don't know what this accomplishes or what the point of this is....it gives me weird vibes like he is trying to induce LS to scum read him for some reason?

plus i have never played with him and he seemed good at mafia from obs last game so i am slightly wary.

On June 10 2017 07:39 Tumblewood wrote:
claiming because you think you're about to die is 100% useless if you are actually blue, because when you die you flip and everyone can see your role anyway, and you had nothing new to say about rbs. or if you don't die, congratulations you outed yourself and now mafia can keep you from ever shooting.

On June 10 2017 07:43 ritoky wrote:


so if you had to ride or die with 1 of LS, conv, or tube who would you choose?

On June 10 2017 07:47 Tumblewood wrote:

??? no. i'm referencing the post where hf says he was 100% certain he was going to die last night. it makes sense to claim if you think you're about to get lynched, but if you think you're about to be NKed it's useless.

On June 10 2017 07:45 ritoky wrote:
alright fuck it bois.

ritoky
btdt
grackaroni
conversion
PB

we down to auto this shit? any objection?

On June 10 2017 08:08 Tubesock wrote:


auto's probably fine. My tinfoil is running that it's HF and LS. but it's really stupid. Well HF for reasons I just posted, and LS partly for POE but also HF's trolling scumming on LS. HF banning LS from using meta prevents LS from towning the entire town:

On June 10 2017 08:11 Tubesock wrote:


He's saying that if you're blue and you think you are going to be Night Killed then there isn't much reason to claim at night. You'll flip anyway (and even more likely to draw fire)

On June 10 2017 08:14 Tubesock wrote:


I'm pretty biased right now, but yeah could be fake pushing LS (he did say he was trolling him) and I definitely see LS getting pissed HF is busing him. And LS can fake the rage too, he did it in one of his scum games a bit ago. Was towned because he used CAPSLOCK once.

But I don't think HF is really the type to bus both partners d1. So, I'm trying to read and think about his conviction of really wanting to lynch LS or just motivating him to post more and get townread.

On June 10 2017 08:10 Tumblewood wrote:

no, you are completely misreading everything i said. read the post i just made that clarifies what i say in this post. i repeat:
if you claim [non-cop] blue like HF did because you think you're about to get NKed, it's useless, but if you claim blue because you think you're about to be lynched, like I did, it makes sense.
honestly, why would you ever interpret someone's post as them claiming mafia?

On June 10 2017 10:48 Tubesock wrote:


I didn't reply because I simply don't believe your reasoning. I don't see much point in arguing about this with you, you wouldn't make a claim without already knowing all your answers. They will be thought out and reasonable. Of course you're goign to make sense and people will believe your reasons for not shooting. You're brilliant at arguing. My point is that the odds of someone, anyone really, holding their shot is super super low. And considering how prolific of a night kill you are, I just don't see it. I get you are claiming that you would prefer to die without shooting, but my point is that most everyone playing on this site shoots and won't hold. They even just shoot big question marks like ALakaslam, or Chezinu or some other mega lurker. I'm just not buying it.

Tumblewood could be scum sure. It would have been really helpful if he put in noticeable work since his claim. So yeah he looks scummy, but I think mafia!Holyflare has more to gain and this world being more likely.

Ritoky's claim looks good to me. I think it would be way too obvious to just drop all discussion of btdt. So maybe he did to pretect himself I don't know.

On June 04 2017 03:53 ritoky wrote:
the person i think is most mafia right now is probably BTDT. i think his reads are cheap and hollow.

he defends TW for missing a joke "full frontal" (w/e the shit that means); when from my experience lacking a sense of humor is more mafia indicative than town.

he defends grack from vivax because of last game? he doesn't disagree with vivax that what grack is doing isn't more scum indicative, he just says "don't call him mafia cuz he said terrible things last game too". read as mafia trying to pocket/protect weak town a bit.

he prods the new player, which is easy for anyone to do.

he calls out PB for sounding wishy-washy....but that makes no sense to me. he has a read on TW and grack from previous games, but not on PB. in the previous game PB was incredibly definitive and made tons of sense pretty much all game long. in this game PB sounds more unsure and makes less sense. it makes me think PB is more likely town, so why does PB sounding dissimilar to last game make him think PB is the same alignment as last game?

dunno....pretty much don't like anything of what he has posted.

On June 05 2017 04:38 ritoky wrote:


i think he's probably town.

On June 05 2017 04:49 ritoky wrote:
i think hf isn't mafia for a couple reasons:

1) he was phone posting at the wedding. this is shitty reasoning, but i got the sense he was so frustrated with rolling mafia that he would have just afk'd through the wedding had he rolled it again.

2) his reaction to one of tube's posts about conv and pb was pretty much identical to my reaction to it.

3) he is pushing LS in a way that doesn't feel like he is pocketing LS or is in a QT with LS

4) he hasn't talked about me much/given reads on me formally, which is how he tends to act toward me as town on day 1

5) he is defending BH, who i feel hf values as one of the few players on the player list with game-solving potential if he tries. as mafia i think he would be content to let BH just die.

On June 05 2017 05:00 ritoky wrote:
vivax, do you think TW is town?

On June 05 2017 08:58 ritoky wrote:
people are voting fidei cuz?

On June 05 2017 06:25 ritoky wrote:


what the hell am i supposed to think abt PB that i don't? he hasn't done a whole lot -> coin flippy, he sounds different than before -> townie, he has low content per words -> mafia, he promised reads then fucked off -> most players in the game

so he's a coin flip who i said i would consider lynching. what am i missing?

On June 06 2017 04:03 ritoky wrote:
looking outside the ppl who voted mafia:

i think PB's post about his reaction to the lynch is pretty similar to mine, although him never delivering on his promised reads is meh. he came to the same conclusion i did about the 3 people i think are town because of the lynch and he looks toward the same spot i do for the mafia on the wagon (grack + ls). but when he starts saying things that make tons of sense to me, it's kinda the opposite of why i had him town leaned earlier.

btdt played the emo card on me and i am hard pressed to get over that. i think his filter and play isn't particularly townie, but he played the emo card....

conv is certainly not particularly useful at the moment, but i don't get the sense that he is malicious or mafia. i told him "stop doing this and give me reads." and then he immediately produced reads that seemed genuine; so i have a difficult time thinking he's mafia.

then vivax....i guess vivax COULD be mafia? but then i been pretty wrong this game. but doesn't vivax just see the runaway train and bus his partner for the nickle or dime's worth of credit he would get? i would have.

On June 11 2017 00:15 Holyflare wrote:
This is a duper simple weighing up that I'm doing in my head to figure out the claims:

Tw - cased day 1 massive tmi and inconsistencies, didn't have answer to bh meta claimed doc instead (but somehow answered it in tiny paragraph within 10 minutes now?), afkd all game, claimed rb all game, blindly believes ritoky claim over me and shovels as much as he can in my direction with no thought

Ritoky - mediocrely towny all game, scum read ls/grack but checked btdt despite town reading (his reason was that he didn't want to lose to emotion instead of checking scum reads??), pushed some ok things, been active.


They're both shit claims but one of those claims was forced day 1 as survival instead of answering simple questions and the other was to kill tw and has been mediocrely towny all game. So yeh tw looks worse on paper.

On June 11 2017 00:43 Holyflare wrote:
Tubesock makes perfect sense with me as mafia or ritoky as mafia because he's already gone down the bussing route with fidei.

On June 11 2017 00:33 Tumblewood wrote:

if hf is scum it is pb for sure. have you noticed how they turned into the same person now that hf is fighting me?
and i have many actual arguments, in my filter. especially the ine where i detail the pros and cons of hf's claim as both alignments. i think that's page 8 of my filter

On June 11 2017 02:06 Holyflare wrote:


That's not what I meant. I was referring to tw's post that tube can't be mafia with me. I was simply playing devil's advocate that tube has already bussed one partner so why not another?

On June 11 2017 02:05 Holyflare wrote:


Yes, I would agree but then that sentiment should continue THROUGHOUT his gameplay. Why would he therefore check Grack next when he was his biggest scum read? The logic does not follow through.

On June 11 2017 02:53 Conversion wrote:


chill out dood was having some lunch on a nice saturday for once here

also I'm not getting any new information that's making me want to switch my vote

it's going on TW. if anyone thinks I'm wagoning I've been suspicious of TW since N2, so go read my filter if you want

also PB I don't want a free pass as town, but my goal going into D3 was to make myself look as townie as possible, so I will continue to play like I have been and if you still think I'm scum then what can I do

On June 11 2017 07:56 Tumblewood wrote:
and one more thing: why the fuck do i, as mafia, claim so i can stay alive longer (because obviously i can't survive all game off a fakeclaim) and then lynch my teammate the day of the claim? completely defeats the purpose.

On June 03 2017 10:04 Tumblewood wrote:

the fuck is this shit
hard to keep up with this flurry of 10 posts? that were all one-liners?
and you're tryna call someone out for not pushing their rng?
I can't even keep this post short while trying to vocalize everything stupid about it. if this isn't for reactions I wanna lynch you for being this bad

On June 03 2017 10:18 Tumblewood wrote:

which part was the jokr

On June 03 2017 10:23 Tumblewood wrote:

basically meaningless. the reason I don't like how you are trying to discuss bh not keeping his push it whatever is because bh has done effectively nothing and you are trying to discuss the nothing

On June 03 2017 10:41 Tumblewood wrote:

no. the whole point is what bh did was as nothing as the hi post, and you wouldn't discuss that
and rng lynches are bad because you get 0 information from them, except based on who thinks it's a stupid idea, but that's pretty useless too

On June 11 2017 08:20 Tumblewood wrote:

speaking of checking all avenues, why weren't you posting at 5:29 this morning? and why did you fail to consider bh's lower words per post in his most recent scum game than the two town games preceding it?

On June 12 2017 06:33 beentheredonethat wrote:
I want pb and hf to eat a broomstick post-game once they see my flip because they are so super wrong on me all game it hurts

On June 12 2017 22:07 Conversion wrote:
One more point: HF rolled vig and said he shot BTDT. if BTDT wasn't scum, why would mafia roleblock and shoot him? If BTDT was town, it would put town at a 4/2 instead of a 3/2 basically puts us in a LYLO situation if we don't get scum here. Maybe this is a bad argument, but is there any benefit to roleblocking HF if, let's say, he was tunneled in on me being mafia and I was town?

I'm not sure if mafia is able to not roleblock someone, so IDK. might be a weak argument, so I'd like some thoughts on it.

In addition to my last post: I do not believe that anyone can be that bad at mafia for that long without being scum. Like I'm sure there are bad plays you can make as town, but my opinion is that you can't be afraid of making bad plays if you know you are town. However, you have to be more careful if you're scum and that sort of caution can be hidden under the guise of emotional rage, threatening to afk, and essentially throwing a tantrum.

So just as we cannot give a free pass to people being inactive on this day (I hope people start posting later in the day), we cannot give them a free pass anymore for being emotional and playing the QQ card, or raging at people and not helping the discussion and calling people out for things he is refusing to do and making excuses for. This is basically mislynch into LYLO, as we'll be at 3/2 if we don't catch scum, so we need everyone to give their opinion, reads, and partake in a discussion.

On June 12 2017 22:36 LightningStrike wrote:

Crap I messed up my math somehow
5-2
4-2
3-2
3-1
2-1
vs
5-2
5-1
4-1
3-1
2-1
I guess we don't exactly lose a mislynch on second looks?

On June 13 2017 02:20 beentheredonethat wrote:
Okay guys. Pretend for a second I'm not the last scum. Who would it be?

On June 13 2017 02:41 beentheredonethat wrote:

Okay, but Grack and LS both hammered Fidei. Tube was early on him, potentially a bus, and Conversion voted outside even.

I would read neither Grack nor LS as scum because they hammered Fidei, finalizing the lynch on him.

On June 14 2017 03:26 Grackaroni wrote:
It looks like he's probably going to be one of the lynches either way. I'm going to try to be less lazy today and see if I can find anything.

I'm a little nervous about you tbh because I know that you're clever enough to change up your play style from the last game.

On June 14 2017 08:15 Conversion wrote:
who's next on the scummy list for y'all if this guy surprises us with a town flip

On June 14 2017 08:42 Conversion wrote:
the thing with PB is I think he played mafia on other forums before

TL is the only place I played mafia and my games are in the database

also my first town game was horrible I think I just AFKed the whole game and almost got mislynched

On June 14 2017 13:56 Tubesock wrote:


That's why I'm talking to you cause pure here. I'll address the things PB says when he's around if he shows when I'm online too.

On June 15 2017 00:34 Conversion wrote:
pb can I get your thoughts on why tube is scum