|
On March 19 2017 03:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:32 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:EBWOP: 1) The Damdred part is very weak. First of all, it's a bit too much to say that Eden's opening was obviously 100% NAI. In addition, even if it was 100% NAI, it's not a scummy thing to ask people for opinions on a sudden "big event". Their reaction could be possibly more significant than the event itself. Especially if there isn't much else to talk about yet. What you are debunking here i am not arguing is something that makes Damdred mafia so all you have said is you don't understand my case. 2) On second thoughts, the Malongo part isn't that bad. Just not strong/convincing. debunked? Please explain your Damdred case better then. I went on to be more critical of your Malongo case later on. I can find that post for you if you want.... Damdred had an opinion of the Eden opening being NAI. Then he asked disformation something about it, when where every answer disformation can give leads to the same thing -> "scummy Damdred already thought "Eden's opener is NAI" (which is what he said), he also though "dismormation thinks something about it" which means whatever disformation says he thinks of it SHOULD lead to same conclusion for Damdred. - bad town ("no, it's NAI") - scum ("no it's NAI") - NAI ("but you already implied it means something?????") Basically he should have a conclusion (whatever one) even before the question (and answer). The question cannot help you figure out disformation's alignment better so the only reason for the question is to be active and talk about something completely useless. Like if i asked you "Xatalos do you prefer ice cream or ketchup better?" and implied "this is totally something that helps me figuring out your alignment" what would you think? Totes reasonable?
I agree it's not the best question, but I don't agree it makes him scum. It was pretty much the only meaningful thing that had happened back then, so it's not unreasonable to ask someone for their opinion on that. Even if the original post doesn't tell much, someone's reaction to it might. It's not uncommon for myself to ask questions that may not be hugely important at the start to get something going.
|
On March 19 2017 03:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:32 Xatalos wrote:On March 18 2017 03:33 Xatalos wrote:On March 17 2017 10:18 Malongo wrote:On March 17 2017 10:06 darthfoley wrote:
Oh! Also don't like Malongo I think we are in the same team tbh. You quote still sucks anyways. My general read is pretty weak at this point. I don´t like how fast Damdred and disformation are piling up ealry. I would rather find a third way because we may be making mafia life too easy. So I propose lynching Ryan. Not that I find him specially scummy but I don´t want to play with a troll for a second time. ##ryanpelikoneetEverything else es just nonsense for me at this point. rayn, you said that your suspicion of Malongo was based on this post and how he did these.... - There is no reason to call Darthfoley town just because he is calling Malongo mafia - There is no reason to assume disformation and Damdred are town just because there are people voting for them 1) The way I read it, Malongo said that foley was town DESPITE calling him scum, not the other way around. How did you come to that conclusion? How does that even make sense? 2) Malongo didn't even say that they're town, just that he'd prefer to get alternative voting action? All in all, it's just so.... weak. Almost as weak as the reads on Damdred/me. Is this really the best you got to push with apparent confidence? If someone says this: Show nested quote +I don´t like how fast Damdred and disformation are piling up ealry. I would rather find a third way because we may be making mafia life too easy. ...they literally have to think both of the wagons are town otherwise this in itself doesn't make any fucking sense at all. So there it is, you didn't really debunk anything.
At least the first point wasn't really worth anything. The second might, possibly - but I don't think it's inherently scummy to think of alternative wagons even if you're not 100% sure that both of the top wagons are town. Townieness is a scale, not yes/no.
|
On March 19 2017 03:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:45 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 03:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 19 2017 03:32 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:EBWOP: 1) The Damdred part is very weak. First of all, it's a bit too much to say that Eden's opening was obviously 100% NAI. In addition, even if it was 100% NAI, it's not a scummy thing to ask people for opinions on a sudden "big event". Their reaction could be possibly more significant than the event itself. Especially if there isn't much else to talk about yet. What you are debunking here i am not arguing is something that makes Damdred mafia so all you have said is you don't understand my case. 2) On second thoughts, the Malongo part isn't that bad. Just not strong/convincing. debunked? Please explain your Damdred case better then. I went on to be more critical of your Malongo case later on. I can find that post for you if you want.... Damdred had an opinion of the Eden opening being NAI. Then he asked disformation something about it, when where every answer disformation can give leads to the same thing -> "scummy Damdred already thought "Eden's opener is NAI" (which is what he said), he also though "dismormation thinks something about it" which means whatever disformation says he thinks of it SHOULD lead to same conclusion for Damdred. - bad town ("no, it's NAI") - scum ("no it's NAI") - NAI ("but you already implied it means something?????") Basically he should have a conclusion (whatever one) even before the question (and answer). The question cannot help you figure out disformation's alignment better so the only reason for the question is to be active and talk about something completely useless. Like if i asked you "Xatalos do you prefer ice cream or ketchup better?" and implied "this is totally something that helps me figuring out your alignment" what would you think? Totes reasonable? I agree it's not the best question, but I don't agree it makes him scum. It was pretty much the only meaningful thing that had happened back then, so it's not unreasonable to ask someone for their opinion on that. Even if the original post doesn't tell much, someone's reaction to it might. It's not uncommon for myself to ask questions that may not be hugely important at the start to get something going. The problem is the post looks like it actually is something he finds relevant. It's not just some random throwaway question people can do at the start of the game. It's a very detailed question instead.
Hmmm.... I didn't take it that way. Looked more of a "reaction test" / discussion starter to me?
|
What else is Damdred even being pushed for?
|
Seriously. I remember someone had a half-decent case on Malongo, other than rayn. It didn't truly convince me, but it was better than nothing. rayn's cases on Damdred/Malongo leaned more towards "nothing" for me..
|
On March 19 2017 03:57 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:53 Xatalos wrote:
What else is Damdred even being pushed for? Dunno but this current discussion is sure unproductive. For Damdred, the best thing that he can do is to scum-hunt normally (which I think he's been doing tbh). As for Rayn, harping on about a post where you essentially accuse someone of scum-slipping is unproductive after a certain point IMO. Since you think they slipped, they have no chance of persuading you otherwise and it just frustrates the accused player, regardless of alignment. And it won't persuade anyone new, as said. So moving onto a different topic/ part of Damdred's posting/ whatever is a great idea for everyone involved!
I don't think it's entirely unproductive? rayn pushed Damdred so hard that I kind of wanted to see if it was based on genuine thought. It sort of feels like he might believe what he's saying. But it hasn't convinced me at all... Meh. Overall I don't think scum can be "catched" based on a single not-so-great question that could come from either town or scum IMO. Both town and scum often make stupid questions - much more stupid ones than that one.
It would be good to hear if there's something else important against Damdred though. I've probably forgot if there was.
|
On March 19 2017 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well then i don't have to say anything anymore today.
Did you have something else against Damdred other than that (debatably meaningful) question he asked at game start? Enlighten me.
|
It just doesn't feel like a wagon on scum.... In general. A bit too easy. I'd prefer if it was Tumble vs Malongo or something rather than just all on Malongo (mostly).
|
On March 19 2017 04:07 Calix wrote:
Xatalos, did you find the arguments for Tweedledumb's townieness unconvincing? Just wondering since you are still voting for him and I can't remember if you responded to those or not.
Hm? I've probably missed/forgot something since I was reading on my phone in fast sessions all day. Didn't you just recently call him scummy though? At least some hours ago.
|
On March 19 2017 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 04:03 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well then i don't have to say anything anymore today. Did you have something else against Damdred other than that (debatably meaningful) question he asked at game start? Enlighten me. Normally Damdred has some good reads (or at least really townie thought processes on reads). I don't see any of it here. Like he usually feels happy(?) that he finds townreads and here it's just some random lists of some people and asking if people disagree... It's just... unsmart.
Hmmmmmm..... Not necessarily scummy though..... I'd say he's something along the lines of null at worst, not sure scum based on your reasons...
|
On March 19 2017 04:13 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:56 Xatalos wrote:
Seriously. I remember someone had a half-decent case on Malongo, other than rayn. It didn't truly convince me, but it was better than nothing. rayn's cases on Damdred/Malongo leaned more towards "nothing" for me.. That was my case, I believe. Show nested quote +On March 18 2017 00:36 darthfoley wrote:The only part of rayn's post that I like is the Malongo read. I feel like his play so far has been forced On March 17 2017 12:27 Malongo wrote:On March 17 2017 10:57 darthfoley wrote:On March 17 2017 10:18 Malongo wrote:On March 17 2017 10:06 darthfoley wrote:
Oh! Also don't like Malongo I think we are in the same team tbh. You quote still sucks anyways. My general read is pretty weak at this point. I don´t like how fast Damdred and disformation are piling up ealry. I would rather find a third way because we may be making mafia life too easy. So I propose lynching Ryan. Not that I find him specially scummy but I don´t want to play with a troll for a second time. ##ryanpelikoneetEverything else es just nonsense for me at this point. Why do you think we're on the same team i.e. why are you town reading me? Just a first impression. Mostly because your position about null reading ryan and because you are calling me out. Don´t expect me to post substance anyways. My goal today is not to lynch Damdred/disformation. The bolded I can actually understand from a town POV. The problem is that he hasn't done anything that amounts to scum hunting to really try to start another wagon. Yea sure, he voted on rayn but not for actual scum hunting reasons: On March 17 2017 10:18 Malongo wrote:On March 17 2017 10:06 darthfoley wrote:
Oh! Also don't like Malongo I think we are in the same team tbh. You quote still sucks anyways. My general read is pretty weak at this point. I don´t like how fast Damdred and disformation are piling up ealry. I would rather find a third way because we may be making mafia life too easy. So I propose lynching Ryan. Not that I find him specially scummy but I don´t want to play with a troll for a second time.##ryanpelikoneetEverything else es just nonsense for me at this point. This reasoning is just so bad to me, plus the fact that he doesn't actually try to push the wagon at all, or ask rayn/anyone else questions. He's not actually interacting with anyone
Yeah, that was it.. Well, it's not a bad result if we lynch Mal now. There's a chance of hitting scum and at least it's one worry off our minds. He even claimed VT so it shouldn't be a blue... But then again, would scum claim VT in this situation? And be pushed so easily to death? It all leaves me with the gut feeling that he's just a clueless green going to his death.
|
On March 19 2017 04:15 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 04:12 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 04:07 Calix wrote:
Xatalos, did you find the arguments for Tweedledumb's townieness unconvincing? Just wondering since you are still voting for him and I can't remember if you responded to those or not. Hm? I've probably missed/forgot something since I was reading on my phone in fast sessions all day. Didn't you just recently call him scummy though? At least some hours ago. Yeah I did but then Rayn made this town case and Tweedledumb responded with some paranoia on Rayn (the only person who really town-reads him) which looked townie to me. Pretty sure disformation picked up on it too. As for your point about the stale wagon, I would be inclined to agree but none of today's wagons have 'picked up' really. Disformation's took a while to get going while Damdred's has been sitting with 2-3 votes all day. I don't think it means a lot. If Malongo flips town then it becomes a lot more interesting though. But I don't see any reason in his posts to think that, he's been talked about a lot and he hasn't done anything. He's the superior lynch for today by miles.
Hmmm.... In the case of rayn/Tumble scum it would make sense though, to distance from rayn without losing/risking anything...?
But if we assume rayn is town, then it's probably not very sensible for Tumble to accuse rayn here..
|
On March 19 2017 04:21 Damdred wrote:
I don't get how I'm not saying smart things when rayn isbliterallyvrepeating what I say after I did about mal and picking up things about Eden and my scum read on him.
Holy shit and xata is agreeing with him and troops me to null. Is thisnliterally real fucking life.
At least df has a legit reason to come arte me sing I wan arte him and I was on his scum list.
Which btw df my reason for voting mal was calling me and disf town voting rayn without any real explanation. Which I said first.
I'm leaving because I can't even this thread right now.
rayn didn't convince me on you or anything. I've basically disagreed with all his arguments, at least to a major extent. It's just that I can't put you as sure town since you're a bit of a hard read for me 
|
On March 19 2017 04:23 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 04:18 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 04:13 darthfoley wrote:On March 19 2017 03:56 Xatalos wrote:
Seriously. I remember someone had a half-decent case on Malongo, other than rayn. It didn't truly convince me, but it was better than nothing. rayn's cases on Damdred/Malongo leaned more towards "nothing" for me.. That was my case, I believe. On March 18 2017 00:36 darthfoley wrote:The only part of rayn's post that I like is the Malongo read. I feel like his play so far has been forced On March 17 2017 12:27 Malongo wrote:On March 17 2017 10:57 darthfoley wrote:On March 17 2017 10:18 Malongo wrote:On March 17 2017 10:06 darthfoley wrote:
Oh! Also don't like Malongo I think we are in the same team tbh. You quote still sucks anyways. My general read is pretty weak at this point. I don´t like how fast Damdred and disformation are piling up ealry. I would rather find a third way because we may be making mafia life too easy. So I propose lynching Ryan. Not that I find him specially scummy but I don´t want to play with a troll for a second time. ##ryanpelikoneetEverything else es just nonsense for me at this point. Why do you think we're on the same team i.e. why are you town reading me? Just a first impression. Mostly because your position about null reading ryan and because you are calling me out. Don´t expect me to post substance anyways. My goal today is not to lynch Damdred/disformation. The bolded I can actually understand from a town POV. The problem is that he hasn't done anything that amounts to scum hunting to really try to start another wagon. Yea sure, he voted on rayn but not for actual scum hunting reasons: On March 17 2017 10:18 Malongo wrote:On March 17 2017 10:06 darthfoley wrote:
Oh! Also don't like Malongo I think we are in the same team tbh. You quote still sucks anyways. My general read is pretty weak at this point. I don´t like how fast Damdred and disformation are piling up ealry. I would rather find a third way because we may be making mafia life too easy. So I propose lynching Ryan. Not that I find him specially scummy but I don´t want to play with a troll for a second time.##ryanpelikoneetEverything else es just nonsense for me at this point. This reasoning is just so bad to me, plus the fact that he doesn't actually try to push the wagon at all, or ask rayn/anyone else questions. He's not actually interacting with anyone Yeah, that was it.. Well, it's not a bad result if we lynch Mal now. There's a chance of hitting scum and at least it's one worry off our minds. He even claimed VT so it shouldn't be a blue... But then again, would scum claim VT in this situation? And be pushed so easily to death? It all leaves me with the gut feeling that he's just a clueless green going to his death. Hasn't he played on TL mafia before though? Correct me if i'm wrong, but he doesn't seem to be some noob who doesn't know what he's doing and gets overwhelmed. I think he may just have given up and is trying to save face. Although the fact that both Calix and Damdred are voting for him (thanks for the reminder Damdred!) makes me nervous as well
Maybe he's scum and the scumteam just decided to bus him somewhat early on, I guess. That could be a possible way how this happened. Still...
|
On March 19 2017 04:25 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 04:20 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 04:15 Calix wrote:On March 19 2017 04:12 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 04:07 Calix wrote:
Xatalos, did you find the arguments for Tweedledumb's townieness unconvincing? Just wondering since you are still voting for him and I can't remember if you responded to those or not. Hm? I've probably missed/forgot something since I was reading on my phone in fast sessions all day. Didn't you just recently call him scummy though? At least some hours ago. Yeah I did but then Rayn made this town case and Tweedledumb responded with some paranoia on Rayn (the only person who really town-reads him) which looked townie to me. Pretty sure disformation picked up on it too. As for your point about the stale wagon, I would be inclined to agree but none of today's wagons have 'picked up' really. Disformation's took a while to get going while Damdred's has been sitting with 2-3 votes all day. I don't think it means a lot. If Malongo flips town then it becomes a lot more interesting though. But I don't see any reason in his posts to think that, he's been talked about a lot and he hasn't done anything. He's the superior lynch for today by miles. Hmmm.... In the case of rayn/Tumble scum it would make sense though, to distance from rayn without losing/risking anything...? But if we assume rayn is town, then it's probably not very sensible for Tumble to accuse rayn here.. Unless you have some incredibly airtight evidence for a pre-flip association between raynpelikoneet and Tweedledumb, I don't care to consider this scenario.
It's just something that was pestering in the back of my mind a while ago. rayn said some soft defense type of thing on Tumble and pushed the other "weak targets". Nothing airtight for sure haha
Maybe he's just paranoid town though. Dunno.
|
On March 19 2017 04:30 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 04:26 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 04:23 darthfoley wrote:On March 19 2017 04:18 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 04:13 darthfoley wrote:On March 19 2017 03:56 Xatalos wrote:
Seriously. I remember someone had a half-decent case on Malongo, other than rayn. It didn't truly convince me, but it was better than nothing. rayn's cases on Damdred/Malongo leaned more towards "nothing" for me.. That was my case, I believe. On March 18 2017 00:36 darthfoley wrote:The only part of rayn's post that I like is the Malongo read. I feel like his play so far has been forced On March 17 2017 12:27 Malongo wrote:On March 17 2017 10:57 darthfoley wrote:On March 17 2017 10:18 Malongo wrote:On March 17 2017 10:06 darthfoley wrote:
Oh! Also don't like Malongo I think we are in the same team tbh. You quote still sucks anyways. My general read is pretty weak at this point. I don´t like how fast Damdred and disformation are piling up ealry. I would rather find a third way because we may be making mafia life too easy. So I propose lynching Ryan. Not that I find him specially scummy but I don´t want to play with a troll for a second time. ##ryanpelikoneetEverything else es just nonsense for me at this point. Why do you think we're on the same team i.e. why are you town reading me? Just a first impression. Mostly because your position about null reading ryan and because you are calling me out. Don´t expect me to post substance anyways. My goal today is not to lynch Damdred/disformation. The bolded I can actually understand from a town POV. The problem is that he hasn't done anything that amounts to scum hunting to really try to start another wagon. Yea sure, he voted on rayn but not for actual scum hunting reasons: On March 17 2017 10:18 Malongo wrote:On March 17 2017 10:06 darthfoley wrote:
Oh! Also don't like Malongo I think we are in the same team tbh. You quote still sucks anyways. My general read is pretty weak at this point. I don´t like how fast Damdred and disformation are piling up ealry. I would rather find a third way because we may be making mafia life too easy. So I propose lynching Ryan. Not that I find him specially scummy but I don´t want to play with a troll for a second time.##ryanpelikoneetEverything else es just nonsense for me at this point. This reasoning is just so bad to me, plus the fact that he doesn't actually try to push the wagon at all, or ask rayn/anyone else questions. He's not actually interacting with anyone Yeah, that was it.. Well, it's not a bad result if we lynch Mal now. There's a chance of hitting scum and at least it's one worry off our minds. He even claimed VT so it shouldn't be a blue... But then again, would scum claim VT in this situation? And be pushed so easily to death? It all leaves me with the gut feeling that he's just a clueless green going to his death. Hasn't he played on TL mafia before though? Correct me if i'm wrong, but he doesn't seem to be some noob who doesn't know what he's doing and gets overwhelmed. I think he may just have given up and is trying to save face. Although the fact that both Calix and Damdred are voting for him (thanks for the reminder Damdred!) makes me nervous as well Maybe he's scum and the scumteam just decided to bus him somewhat early on, I guess. That could be a possible way how this happened. Still... I mean I have a few theories depending on Malongo's flip but they're all useless until he flips. I think Tumblewood did some stats a while back that said that D1 lynches are like 75% mislynches, and I would be prefer, if we are gonna be wrong, to be wrong on someone who isn't really playing the game, but has made some scummy points (rather than Rels or Onegu for example), than someone who is being more active and therefore creating more opportunities for contradictions/slip ups/evidence for the town to analyze later on.
Not the worst plan.
|
|
|
Guess I'll vote Mal then. Better than Damdred.
|
I'm always open to a Tumble switch or something.
|
Oh hi Tumble. This is awkward.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
