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Eden's case isn't actually horrible. It's true that Calix jumped to scumreading disfo a bit quickly/strongly and stuck with it until it no longer had steam. The reason for dropping it wasn't the best either... "at least he's doing something now" after listing various other reasons to scumread him, which weren't really addressed? Or were they somewhere?
I could be biased because Eden praised my townieness so greatly.
I'll be around closer to the deadline, but probably not very much for the next 15-20 hours or so.
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I guess neither Tumble nor Malongo would be bad picks. On that, I agree with disfo.
Tumble's vote thingy was pretty odd. Very weak (non-existent?) reasoning for his lynch pick.. and then just leaving the vote there?
That, and not really doing much despite a decent amount of posts.
I'll probably vote for him in a while - AFK for a couple of hours at least now.
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(One reason I'm hesitant on Malongo is that I still have doubts about rayn and the Malongo wagon has collected steam very, perhaps too, steadily)
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Left my vote on Tumble. Now AFK for a while.
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On March 18 2017 22:12 Damdred wrote:
Xata or anyone who on the mal wagon makes you super skeptical?
rayn isn't even on his wagon, but he's pushed Mal nonetheless, and with very weak reasons IMO (which is more typical of his scumplay). Still not sure about disfo, and not completely sure about Calix either. Mainly it's because there hasn't been any meaningful opposition, but just scattered votes all around. That rarely leads to a correct lunch.
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On March 19 2017 00:41 Damdred wrote:
Like I have only problems with df on this wagon.
1) Comes into the thread and blasts calix early and never really retracts from that. But is voting with 2/3 of his scum reads on his other scum read without really questioning the validity of the wagon I the people on the wagon.
2) Has very little talking points on mal in his filter that would indicate a scum read. I'm fact it seems likely basis for the read is actually rayns read. (Just as an aside I kinda said the same things about mal right after he posted but df kinda ignores this and scum reads me but puts rayn super high in his town list. I know he scum reads me for cordial interactions with calix which isbadreasoning but meh).
3) In his filter calix is his biggest read but just sheep's rayn instead of trying to push his read.
Like idk just kind of a weird filter and his vote on mal seems a bit... opportunistic at this point.
Hmm. I still have yet to evaluate foley with any confidence. Kind of been under my radar most of the time.
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Foley seems OK'ish for now, I guess? He talks a lot in a focused manner (focused on doing useful things). Kind of jumps to quick snap judgments. His reads aren't too far from my own, just a couple of people in different places. Pretty... null / slight town lean? Not really the best D1 lynch IMO
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Eden seemed kind of OK? At least his Calix case actually made me reconsider Calix - no matter if it's right or wrong, at least he seems to do things and not just lurk by.
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On March 19 2017 00:49 disformation wrote:been mulling over tw vs mal, but its a bit bleh. mal posting 0 reads looks more like scum giving up and not wanting to give town more info to me. liked damdreds idea about looking at the ppl on the wagon. but i am pretty much cool with everyone on it. maybe should look at df's filter again. Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 00:41 Xatalos wrote:On March 18 2017 22:12 Damdred wrote:
Xata or anyone who on the mal wagon makes you super skeptical? rayn isn't even on his wagon, but he's pushed Mal nonetheless, and with very weak reasons IMO (which is more typical of his scumplay). Still not sure about disfo, and not completely sure about Calix either. Mainly it's because there hasn't been any meaningful opposition, but just scattered votes all around. That rarely leads to a correct lunch. not sure if i remember correct, but werent you on a scumteam with calix somewhat recently? i think damdred mentioned that calix doesnt look like in her last scum game. agree/disagree?
I probably was... but my memory is hazy. I'll need to recheck that game to answer.
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On March 19 2017 00:51 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 00:41 Xatalos wrote:On March 18 2017 22:12 Damdred wrote:
Xata or anyone who on the mal wagon makes you super skeptical? rayn isn't even on his wagon, but he's pushed Mal nonetheless, and with very weak reasons IMO (which is more typical of his scumplay). Still not sure about disfo, and not completely sure about Calix either. Mainly it's because there hasn't been any meaningful opposition, but just scattered votes all around. That rarely leads to a correct lunch. i think rayn's preferred lynch has been damdred for quite some time now?
Maybe, but he doesn't seem to care if it's Mal instead?
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On March 19 2017 00:54 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 00:41 Xatalos wrote:On March 18 2017 22:12 Damdred wrote:
Xata or anyone who on the mal wagon makes you super skeptical? rayn isn't even on his wagon, but he's pushed Mal nonetheless, and with very weak reasons IMO (which is more typical of his scumplay). Still not sure about disfo, and not completely sure about Calix either. Mainly it's because there hasn't been any meaningful opposition, but just scattered votes all around. That rarely leads to a correct lunch. Yeah, about that. Show nested quote +On March 18 2017 07:15 Xatalos wrote:
Eden's case isn't actually horrible. It's true that Calix jumped to scumreading disfo a bit quickly/strongly and stuck with it until it no longer had steam. The reason for dropping it wasn't the best either... "at least he's doing something now" after listing various other reasons to scumread him, which weren't really addressed? Or were they somewhere?
I could be biased because Eden praised my townieness so greatly.
I'll be around closer to the deadline, but probably not very much for the next 15-20 hours or so. I'm confused as to why you think it's suspect for me to have pushed disformation 'a bit quickly/ strongly and stuck with it' when you agreed with all of my points and spent more time talking about it than I did? My point here being that since you acted in a similar way, it doesn't make sense for you to then agree with Eden when he calls out the same behaviour in me. And I still don't get how Eden calling you top town influences your response to his case. In general, I think Eden has not been talked about as much as I was expecting him to be. @Damdred, can you expand on your Eden read?
Well, it's not like I think you're sure scum like he implied or anything. Just that his reasoning kind of made sense to me. You did jump to scumread him very quickly, and a bit too strongly considering the reasoning (tone) maybe... and kind of left the wagon to roll until it died? And abandoned the wagon just like that even though your other points weren't really addressed, just the confusion part that I was mostly suspicious of? Dunno. I can see the scum motivation in that. But then again, you've been pretty active and contributing very, so I don't have any motivation to pursue the matter.
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On March 19 2017 00:59 Calix wrote:Yeah, it was that Newbie game where we hardcore bussed Lunatic D1 and then we bumbled along, failing to kill the TPRs, before I turned into a whiny bitch and asked to concede 
Ohhh yeah, it was that game.
Haha... somehow mixed your name with someone else.
Can't really remember much of the details in that game though. Should probably recheck a bit.
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Hm yeah. Calix was quite active and (appeared) helpful as scum too. But... can't really say I'm an expect of her meta, even though we played that game together. Can't remember the details very well anymore.
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On March 19 2017 01:12 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 01:02 Damdred wrote:On March 19 2017 00:54 Calix wrote:On March 19 2017 00:41 Xatalos wrote:On March 18 2017 22:12 Damdred wrote:
Xata or anyone who on the mal wagon makes you super skeptical? rayn isn't even on his wagon, but he's pushed Mal nonetheless, and with very weak reasons IMO (which is more typical of his scumplay). Still not sure about disfo, and not completely sure about Calix either. Mainly it's because there hasn't been any meaningful opposition, but just scattered votes all around. That rarely leads to a correct lunch. Yeah, about that. On March 18 2017 07:15 Xatalos wrote:
Eden's case isn't actually horrible. It's true that Calix jumped to scumreading disfo a bit quickly/strongly and stuck with it until it no longer had steam. The reason for dropping it wasn't the best either... "at least he's doing something now" after listing various other reasons to scumread him, which weren't really addressed? Or were they somewhere?
I could be biased because Eden praised my townieness so greatly.
I'll be around closer to the deadline, but probably not very much for the next 15-20 hours or so. I'm confused as to why you think it's suspect for me to have pushed disformation 'a bit quickly/ strongly and stuck with it' when you agreed with all of my points and spent more time talking about it than I did? My point here being that since you acted in a similar way, it doesn't make sense for you to then agree with Eden when he calls out the same behaviour in me. And I still don't get how Eden calling you top town influences your response to his case. In general, I think Eden has not been talked about as much as I was expecting him to be. @Damdred, can you expand on your Eden read? Yeah, a lot of what Eden did content wise was a rehash that made him look more active,while the answers were in thread already. The time was more accusatory rather than inquisitive and his case felt more like throw everything I can and we what sticks people run on. Then throws a vote down without really a ton I interaction a lot of the other reads are easily escapable from not really firm. And hasn't done much since, and doesn't really seem to care about pushing to case even right after he made it. Sure, Eden's posts didn't consider my later interactions with disformation or anything else I've done but that's not necessarily AI if he just found my early play scummy. I don't think Eden 'not doing much since there' means anything. He clearly put a sizable amount of effort into the posts he did make (outside of the bullshit claim stuff). In fact, all these 'well people haven't done much' posts don't mean a great deal right now. It's D1. If someone was amazing on D1 and then tanked overnight then using this sort of logic would make more sense but right now? Nah. Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 01:04 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 00:54 Calix wrote:On March 19 2017 00:41 Xatalos wrote:On March 18 2017 22:12 Damdred wrote:
Xata or anyone who on the mal wagon makes you super skeptical? rayn isn't even on his wagon, but he's pushed Mal nonetheless, and with very weak reasons IMO (which is more typical of his scumplay). Still not sure about disfo, and not completely sure about Calix either. Mainly it's because there hasn't been any meaningful opposition, but just scattered votes all around. That rarely leads to a correct lunch. Yeah, about that. On March 18 2017 07:15 Xatalos wrote:
Eden's case isn't actually horrible. It's true that Calix jumped to scumreading disfo a bit quickly/strongly and stuck with it until it no longer had steam. The reason for dropping it wasn't the best either... "at least he's doing something now" after listing various other reasons to scumread him, which weren't really addressed? Or were they somewhere?
I could be biased because Eden praised my townieness so greatly.
I'll be around closer to the deadline, but probably not very much for the next 15-20 hours or so. I'm confused as to why you think it's suspect for me to have pushed disformation 'a bit quickly/ strongly and stuck with it' when you agreed with all of my points and spent more time talking about it than I did? My point here being that since you acted in a similar way, it doesn't make sense for you to then agree with Eden when he calls out the same behaviour in me. And I still don't get how Eden calling you top town influences your response to his case. In general, I think Eden has not been talked about as much as I was expecting him to be. @Damdred, can you expand on your Eden read? Well, it's not like I think you're sure scum like he implied or anything. Just that his reasoning kind of made sense to me. You did jump to scumread him very quickly, and a bit too strongly considering the reasoning (tone) maybe... and kind of left the wagon to roll until it died? And abandoned the wagon just like that even though your other points weren't really addressed, just the confusion part that I was mostly suspicious of? Dunno. I can see the scum motivation in that. But then again, you've been pretty active and contributing very, so I don't have any motivation to pursue the matter. I have explained that already. I found disformation stuck out compared to everyone else because of his tone and voted him based on that. Given that it got shit going, I have no regrets there I was actually AFK while all of that shit over disformation was going down yesterday but you wouldn't have known that. I said on several occasions that I would reconsider disformation if he started contributing on his own terms, which he did, so I unvoted when I got back. No point in hounding him much more at that point since it would just distract him if he is town, you know?
Hm yeah, I guess so. Still it seemed a bit fast how you dropped it even though you had added a couple of other reasons to scumread him during that and your scumread seemed to be getting stronger until it suddenly disappeared? Dunno. I'm not lunching you at this point regardless 
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On March 19 2017 02:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is nothing "weak" in my case on Malongo especially if you go and read how he approaches games as town and mafia. This is not how he does it as town.
I am kinda waffling on Xatalos and Eden. I can't understand why Xatalos jsut calls me scum without actually calling me scum or even trying to interact me. Basically he is not touching my cases at all he just calls them bad and then says i can be scum for it but isn't sure (and again -- then does nothing with it). I am very sceptical he does that as town because it doesn't make any sense, especially for a player who is really interested in pushing a lynch on me if he thinks i am mafia.
I can't understand why Eden townreads me because he shouldn't as per what he writes.
I've made at least a couple of posts debunking your cases.
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On March 19 2017 03:01 Eden1892 wrote:##UNVOTEThis firewall tanked my mafia time last night and this morning  almost certainly going to be gone at EOD as well, wedding in ~3 hrs. I think my case on Calix still has merit, but I can see no one was really interested, and I know I don't have time to push it through the more active players today, so I'm going to shelve it and make my vote more useful. Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 02:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 18 2017 05:15 Eden1892 wrote:On March 18 2017 05:10 Calix wrote:On March 18 2017 04:57 Eden1892 wrote:On March 18 2017 04:23 darthfoley wrote:
I'd like your overall reads when you have them Eden I don't have a lot yet and I'm sure outside of Calix, none of it is interesting. Top town is Xatalos followed shortly by rayn and Koshi. Top scum is Calix. Damdred has said a lot without a lot jumping out at me one way or another. I don't recall having this much difficulty discerning any feeling about his alignment when he's one of the more active posters in the thread before. Not really sure what to make of it yet, and to be fair to him, my relative disconnectedness from this game compared to past ones on here is probably to blame. I think disformation is lock town if I'm right about Calix. Pretty sure Calix is scum and spewed disfo town. Loved this post by disfo as well: On March 17 2017 18:05 disformation wrote:On March 17 2017 17:58 Calix wrote:
Explain scum motivation for calling multiple people town this early on and stating that I do not want to lynch them today. I'd like to see the inevitable bullshit which is sure to come. 1) Push someone weak so you have a scum read 2) get lazy and give the rest lazy town reads 3) "look how much work i already did" if shit happens you can still easily backtrack, since its early and the trs where fairly weak in the first place I don't get the Malongo wagon having so many votes. He's a giant blank right now and it's weird that a wagon on a straight null poster got so much traction so quick. Makes me think that there were multiple mafia driving the early discussion and managed to get attention centered on a townie with weak/no thread presence. The alternative is that Malongo is mafia and his team can't do anything to stop the town, in which case this game is easy and I'm not worried anyway. That's about all I got that I think matters right now. If you're already using pre-flip associations and getting tunnel vision re: me before anyone has even flipped then your reads are going to be so off it's not even funny. What do you actually think of Malongo himself? Why exactly he is null to you? Why wouldn't he be null? This is a weird concept, since people are null by default, but here goes. He's null because he hasn't done anything relevant or important yet. He said something interesting about not liking the speed at which Damdred and disformation wagons grew. I like these kinds of observations, all else equal, but he didn't do anything with it and his vote on ray had no serious motivation behind it. So the sum of his actions is... nothing. He made a potentially interesting observation and did nothing to make it actually interesting. He voted for some guy for no particular reason. It's a bunch of air. Null. Like if Eden says this he literally must think my case is crap because my case on Malongo is based on something he found slightly townie. He doesn't think Damdred (who i am voting for) is mafia. Xatalos (who was and is my third scumread) is his top townread. Why am i town in Eden's eys? That's basically everything i have done in this game, called these three people out. I disagree with your reads all the time lol. I've learned not to let that affect my read on you. My heuristics might be outdated, but when you're mafia you tend to be disproportionately forceful in tone compared to the strength of your argument. You'll push speculative reasons as though they were absolute fact and effectively bully-pulpit the thread and shove people into lining up behind you. When you're town, whether or not I agree with your direction in the thread, I at least get the sense that you're treating your arguments with the respect they deserve instead of demanding an undue amount of it from the other players. I think your play this game has been much more in line with the town description than the mafia description. I bet you'll even agree. So even though I don't like your Malongo case or Xatalos scumread, I can still easily be comfortable calling you town. As for Damdred, I didn't say that I don't think he's mafia, just that he didn't make an impression one way or another. I'm still not really prepared to say that he isn't, either. Just seems like he's said a lot of words and made a lot of posts, but very little has made a strong impression either way. I'll go and reread his filter and try to develop a more crystallized opinion of him for you though, since that's your wagon for today and I trust your motivations.
I can kind of agree with how you're metaing rayn - but are you sure about the conclusion that he's giving his reads the "appropriate amount of force"? To me it's felt like he's pushed them with a little too much confidence compared to their strengths.
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On March 19 2017 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:EBWOP: Show nested quote +1) The Damdred part is very weak. First of all, it's a bit too much to say that Eden's opening was obviously 100% NAI. In addition, even if it was 100% NAI, it's not a scummy thing to ask people for opinions on a sudden "big event". Their reaction could be possibly more significant than the event itself. Especially if there isn't much else to talk about yet. What you are debunking here i am not arguing is something that makes Damdred mafia so all you have said is you don't understand my case. Show nested quote +2) On second thoughts, the Malongo part isn't that bad. Just not strong/convincing. debunked?
Please explain your Damdred case better then.
I went on to be more critical of your Malongo case later on. I can find that post for you if you want....
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On March 18 2017 03:33 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2017 10:18 Malongo wrote:On March 17 2017 10:06 darthfoley wrote:
Oh! Also don't like Malongo I think we are in the same team tbh. You quote still sucks anyways. My general read is pretty weak at this point. I don´t like how fast Damdred and disformation are piling up ealry. I would rather find a third way because we may be making mafia life too easy. So I propose lynching Ryan. Not that I find him specially scummy but I don´t want to play with a troll for a second time. ##ryanpelikoneetEverything else es just nonsense for me at this point. rayn, you said that your suspicion of Malongo was based on this post and how he did these.... - There is no reason to call Darthfoley town just because he is calling Malongo mafia - There is no reason to assume disformation and Damdred are town just because there are people voting for them 1) The way I read it, Malongo said that foley was town DESPITE calling him scum, not the other way around. How did you come to that conclusion? How does that even make sense? 2) Malongo didn't even say that they're town, just that he'd prefer to get alternative voting action? All in all, it's just so.... weak. Almost as weak as the reads on Damdred/me. Is this really the best you got to push with apparent confidence?
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On March 19 2017 03:33 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:32 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:EBWOP: 1) The Damdred part is very weak. First of all, it's a bit too much to say that Eden's opening was obviously 100% NAI. In addition, even if it was 100% NAI, it's not a scummy thing to ask people for opinions on a sudden "big event". Their reaction could be possibly more significant than the event itself. Especially if there isn't much else to talk about yet. What you are debunking here i am not arguing is something that makes Damdred mafia so all you have said is you don't understand my case. 2) On second thoughts, the Malongo part isn't that bad. Just not strong/convincing. debunked? Please explain your Damdred case better then. I went on to be more critical of your Malongo case later on. I can find that post for you if you want.... Didn't he already explain his Damdred logic like, ten times when he was interacting with me earlier? I'd look at that. I'd rather you explain YOUR Rayn scum-read better, actually.
I'm not confident that he's scum, but usually when he's adamant about pushing weak cases he's scum. That's what triggered my lingering suspicion after his big case post.
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On March 19 2017 03:37 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:30 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 03:01 Eden1892 wrote:##UNVOTEThis firewall tanked my mafia time last night and this morning almost certainly going to be gone at EOD as well, wedding in ~3 hrs. I think my case on Calix still has merit, but I can see no one was really interested, and I know I don't have time to push it through the more active players today, so I'm going to shelve it and make my vote more useful. On March 19 2017 02:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 18 2017 05:15 Eden1892 wrote:On March 18 2017 05:10 Calix wrote:On March 18 2017 04:57 Eden1892 wrote:On March 18 2017 04:23 darthfoley wrote:
I'd like your overall reads when you have them Eden I don't have a lot yet and I'm sure outside of Calix, none of it is interesting. Top town is Xatalos followed shortly by rayn and Koshi. Top scum is Calix. Damdred has said a lot without a lot jumping out at me one way or another. I don't recall having this much difficulty discerning any feeling about his alignment when he's one of the more active posters in the thread before. Not really sure what to make of it yet, and to be fair to him, my relative disconnectedness from this game compared to past ones on here is probably to blame. I think disformation is lock town if I'm right about Calix. Pretty sure Calix is scum and spewed disfo town. Loved this post by disfo as well: On March 17 2017 18:05 disformation wrote:On March 17 2017 17:58 Calix wrote:
Explain scum motivation for calling multiple people town this early on and stating that I do not want to lynch them today. I'd like to see the inevitable bullshit which is sure to come. 1) Push someone weak so you have a scum read 2) get lazy and give the rest lazy town reads 3) "look how much work i already did" if shit happens you can still easily backtrack, since its early and the trs where fairly weak in the first place I don't get the Malongo wagon having so many votes. He's a giant blank right now and it's weird that a wagon on a straight null poster got so much traction so quick. Makes me think that there were multiple mafia driving the early discussion and managed to get attention centered on a townie with weak/no thread presence. The alternative is that Malongo is mafia and his team can't do anything to stop the town, in which case this game is easy and I'm not worried anyway. That's about all I got that I think matters right now. If you're already using pre-flip associations and getting tunnel vision re: me before anyone has even flipped then your reads are going to be so off it's not even funny. What do you actually think of Malongo himself? Why exactly he is null to you? Why wouldn't he be null? This is a weird concept, since people are null by default, but here goes. He's null because he hasn't done anything relevant or important yet. He said something interesting about not liking the speed at which Damdred and disformation wagons grew. I like these kinds of observations, all else equal, but he didn't do anything with it and his vote on ray had no serious motivation behind it. So the sum of his actions is... nothing. He made a potentially interesting observation and did nothing to make it actually interesting. He voted for some guy for no particular reason. It's a bunch of air. Null. Like if Eden says this he literally must think my case is crap because my case on Malongo is based on something he found slightly townie. He doesn't think Damdred (who i am voting for) is mafia. Xatalos (who was and is my third scumread) is his top townread. Why am i town in Eden's eys? That's basically everything i have done in this game, called these three people out. I disagree with your reads all the time lol. I've learned not to let that affect my read on you. My heuristics might be outdated, but when you're mafia you tend to be disproportionately forceful in tone compared to the strength of your argument. You'll push speculative reasons as though they were absolute fact and effectively bully-pulpit the thread and shove people into lining up behind you. When you're town, whether or not I agree with your direction in the thread, I at least get the sense that you're treating your arguments with the respect they deserve instead of demanding an undue amount of it from the other players. I think your play this game has been much more in line with the town description than the mafia description. I bet you'll even agree. So even though I don't like your Malongo case or Xatalos scumread, I can still easily be comfortable calling you town. As for Damdred, I didn't say that I don't think he's mafia, just that he didn't make an impression one way or another. I'm still not really prepared to say that he isn't, either. Just seems like he's said a lot of words and made a lot of posts, but very little has made a strong impression either way. I'll go and reread his filter and try to develop a more crystallized opinion of him for you though, since that's your wagon for today and I trust your motivations. I can kind of agree with how you're metaing rayn - but are you sure about the conclusion that he's giving his reads the "appropriate amount of force"? To me it's felt like he's pushed them with a little too much confidence compared to their strengths. I didn't explain this well. When I say "force" I'm not referring to confidence - ray always has this in spades. What I mean is that he tends as mafia to treat people like total morons if they dissent from him, whereas you can see here that he's not being degrading or demeaning toward people who disagree
Hmmm.... Maybe you have a point. He's actually trying to explain things. As scum he's tended to just ignore / push me if I've opposed him, kind of trying to bury me / others under his posts.
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EPT
