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On March 20 2017 03:44 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 03:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 20 2017 03:34 Xatalos wrote:
Meanwhile you call me scum for not fighting to save Malongo when you had pretty much the same attitude to him as I did... Although you had a bit stronger feelings of him being scum, you also had similarly stronger feelings of Damdred being scum than I had of you/Tumble. So in the end, you're just calling me scum for doing almost exactly the same thing as you. If you can't understand the difference between: - "I have 2 very sure scumreads and both of them are leading wagons"- "I have 3 scumreads which cannot be scum together in the first place and i don't fight against the lynch of the one i actually don't really think i scum" ..then i don't know what to say. quick chime in: I am actually pretty cool with the bolded, as I think that can very well come from a town mindset. there might be a problem in your interactions with damdred (which is at least what damdred is on about imo), but I havent gotten the time to double check myself.
I haven't said that rayn ignoring the Malongo wagon was scummy in itself though. Rather I've been suspicious of the way he jumped to 100% scumread on both Malongo and Damdred for very flimsy reasons and then just pretty much ignored whatever else happened regarding the lynch (as long as one of them got lynched or something...). And now I guess he's setting up a similar scenario for D2 where he just throws weak suspicions on people and lets votes pile on them without doing much else....
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On March 20 2017 03:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 03:43 Xatalos wrote:On March 20 2017 03:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 20 2017 03:34 Xatalos wrote:
Meanwhile you call me scum for not fighting to save Malongo when you had pretty much the same attitude to him as I did... Although you had a bit stronger feelings of him being scum, you also had similarly stronger feelings of Damdred being scum than I had of you/Tumble. So in the end, you're just calling me scum for doing almost exactly the same thing as you. If you can't understand the difference between: - "I have 2 very sure scumreads and both of them are leading wagons" - "I have 3 scumreads which cannot be scum together in the first place and i don't fight against the lynch of the one i actually don't really think i scum" ..then i don't know what to say. I didn't have a confident scumread on any of you three. Malongo was a bit behind both of you, but it wasn't by much. And how couldn't he be scum with either of you? Because if i am mafia i never make cases like that on my scumbuddies. I just don't have to because noone will never understand me anyways so i am just hopping on some retarded things i don't actually believe make people mafia but other people will. Like ritoky's case on Eden is a super good example of this. "wow looks so good super duper fucking 100% townread on him" when actually there is nothing behind the case except for a touch on the surface. Tumble is never scum with me. Well Tumble is never scum, because if he was he would have been totally okay with lynching me (especailly if he was scum with Malongo). But i will stop responding now. I don't care. You're mafia.  Try to lynch me, i guarantee you are lynched next because everyone can see how you're calling 2 townies mafia and doing nothing else. After either me or Tumble flip your D1 looks ridiculous. ^^
I agree that not all 3 of you could have been scum together, but Tumble/rayn makes some sense. His vote on you could have been distancing and his hesitation just preparation to switch to Malongo if needed.
In any case, I guess things will become clearer with night actions / following lynches.
And no, I'm never getting lynched. I haven't been mislynched as town in years (even as VT).
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On March 20 2017 03:51 Onegu wrote:
IRL reasons. May replace if things dont get better in the next 3 hours or so.
Rayn and DBS/Ritoky=Scum
rayn/DBS/ritoky scumteam you mean....? How come?
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On March 20 2017 03:54 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 03:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am tired of talking to scum so i just choose not to. Good night. This is me being serious rayn tumble wanted to lynchbyouball day, and wanted to lynch you/me or his townread at eod. Please look at it cause you aren't putting it right in your posts and drawing faulty conclusions
Ignoring facts has been the standard for him all game though...
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On March 20 2017 03:56 Damdred wrote:
To scum la me xata and you into lylo so I can bit him off in repayment for arnie for a gun.
I ty
??
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On March 20 2017 03:57 disformation wrote:
huh?
?
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On March 20 2017 04:00 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 03:46 ritoky wrote:
people with good posts:
damdred
rayn
calix
people i don't feel anything much about:
xata
koshi
onegu
rels
people with bad posts:
eden
darthfoley
disfo
tumble Why is rayn town and Xata null and Damdred "good" when the majority of rayn's interactions today have been revolving around Xata/Damdred. If you think rayn is making good posts, and many of his posts have been about Xata AND Damdred, then surely you would seem to think Xata and/or Damdred is more likely to be scum, no? But you have Damdred and rayn as both "good posts" and Xata "null posts." How good can rayns posts be if they're all wrong, according to your reads? You can add yourself to the "bad posts" section because your categories are ass. Good posts and bad posts have nothing to do with alignment, especially when you're playing with veteran mafia players who are good at both alignments. I find this post scummy
I guess you make a fair point. Dunno how rayn ended up in "good posts" if he still doesn't hold any suspicions for me or Damdred (rayn hasn't made posts about anything else really..).
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On March 20 2017 04:00 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 03:57 Xatalos wrote:On March 20 2017 03:56 Damdred wrote:
To scum la me xata and you into lylo so I can bit him off in repayment for arnie for a gun.
I ty ?? I just want to vote you off in lylo in repayment xata is that so bad ^-^
Can't even remember what I did..
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On March 20 2017 04:05 Calix wrote:
To answer your earlier question, DF, I think both of the Finnish people are town. Rayn looks like he's dropped his flashlight while stuck in a tunnel and Xatalos held his ground better than I'd figure he would as scum. Want to reread it later just to be sure though.
Does being in a blind tunnel make one town though?
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Dunno about DBS/ritoky. Nothing hugely stands out as towny/scummy. Onegu why was he your stronger scumread?
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On March 20 2017 04:14 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 04:00 darthfoley wrote:On March 20 2017 03:46 ritoky wrote:
people with good posts:
damdred
rayn
calix
people i don't feel anything much about:
xata
koshi
onegu
rels
people with bad posts:
eden
darthfoley
disfo
tumble Why is rayn town and Xata null and Damdred "good" when the majority of rayn's interactions today have been revolving around Xata/Damdred. If you think rayn is making good posts, and many of his posts have been about Xata AND Damdred, then surely you would seem to think Xata and/or Damdred is more likely to be scum, no? But you have Damdred and rayn as both "good posts" and Xata "null posts." How good can rayns posts be if they're all wrong, according to your reads? You can add yourself to the "bad posts" section because your categories are ass. Good posts and bad posts have nothing to do with alignment, especially when you're playing with veteran mafia players who are good at both alignments. I find this post scummy ? I mean we must play a different game. Just because someone orients the game as black vs white, doesn't mean the game is actually black vs white. You're implying that because someone is tunneling, the tunneler and the tunneled must be opposite alignments. More often than not they aren't. Further, being right is also not a requirement for being town, there exists this thing and it is called a donkey, please ask Koshi about it he is abundantly familiar. Once you get away from the realm of right vs wrong and black vs white, and stop trying to render the game into a state of binary decision making, you arrive at a place where you can judge peoples' process. Process and intent are vastly more important than people's actual conclusions much of the time, and that is what matters. I see the town process in rayn when he rails on 1 point for hours and tries to drive discussion back to his point that he views as unimpeachably scummy, I see his process when he tries to scum check me to get a reaction. These are town processes for him, which make his posts good. You look at damdred and, he unprompted, makes a poignant observation and asks an extremely pointed question at tumble and then pushes when the answer is unsatisfactory. Once again I see the process, the desire for more information and to drive the game forward in the direction he thinks is right. You have to remember that you've been playing this game for 36 hours and have 50 pages, I have been playing for like 10 and have 5 pages, so my opinions have not had the cultivating of others' opinions. However, my categories are fine. Because people making bad posts are a good place to begin looking for me. I used to be quite skilled at reading people who post bad shit, so I likely still am. Some of the terrible posters will likely become my top town reads who I will never vote on soon.
Well, from my point of view rayn is just pushing townies for weak reasons and with huge, inappropriate force. Malongo was town, I'm town, and Damdred is at least more likely town than rayn - and certainly not scum for the reasons rayn proposed. He's not even really listening or changing his views. He pretty much ignored Damdred, ignored me several times (although at least he responded to me at times) and Malongo was more of an "lynch the AFKer". It fits the view that he's scum and pushing whatever may stick to mislynch, not so well with an "active and helpful town mindset".
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From the town rayn I know, he's generally more likely to wait until he finds something truly damning before going full YOLO like that. Here he just finds something, however insignificant, and never lets go once he decides to push that issue...
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If I die (not very likely, I guess), just one wish: don't let rayn get an easy pass going forward. Otherwise I'm not quite sure, but rayn is the one I'm most worried about right now.
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On March 20 2017 04:24 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 04:20 Xatalos wrote:On March 20 2017 04:14 ritoky wrote:On March 20 2017 04:00 darthfoley wrote:On March 20 2017 03:46 ritoky wrote:
people with good posts:
damdred
rayn
calix
people i don't feel anything much about:
xata
koshi
onegu
rels
people with bad posts:
eden
darthfoley
disfo
tumble Why is rayn town and Xata null and Damdred "good" when the majority of rayn's interactions today have been revolving around Xata/Damdred. If you think rayn is making good posts, and many of his posts have been about Xata AND Damdred, then surely you would seem to think Xata and/or Damdred is more likely to be scum, no? But you have Damdred and rayn as both "good posts" and Xata "null posts." How good can rayns posts be if they're all wrong, according to your reads? You can add yourself to the "bad posts" section because your categories are ass. Good posts and bad posts have nothing to do with alignment, especially when you're playing with veteran mafia players who are good at both alignments. I find this post scummy ? I mean we must play a different game. Just because someone orients the game as black vs white, doesn't mean the game is actually black vs white. You're implying that because someone is tunneling, the tunneler and the tunneled must be opposite alignments. More often than not they aren't. Further, being right is also not a requirement for being town, there exists this thing and it is called a donkey, please ask Koshi about it he is abundantly familiar. Once you get away from the realm of right vs wrong and black vs white, and stop trying to render the game into a state of binary decision making, you arrive at a place where you can judge peoples' process. Process and intent are vastly more important than people's actual conclusions much of the time, and that is what matters. I see the town process in rayn when he rails on 1 point for hours and tries to drive discussion back to his point that he views as unimpeachably scummy, I see his process when he tries to scum check me to get a reaction. These are town processes for him, which make his posts good. You look at damdred and, he unprompted, makes a poignant observation and asks an extremely pointed question at tumble and then pushes when the answer is unsatisfactory. Once again I see the process, the desire for more information and to drive the game forward in the direction he thinks is right. You have to remember that you've been playing this game for 36 hours and have 50 pages, I have been playing for like 10 and have 5 pages, so my opinions have not had the cultivating of others' opinions. However, my categories are fine. Because people making bad posts are a good place to begin looking for me. I used to be quite skilled at reading people who post bad shit, so I likely still am. Some of the terrible posters will likely become my top town reads who I will never vote on soon. Well, from my point of view rayn is just pushing townies for weak reasons and with huge, inappropriate force. Malongo was town, I'm town, and Damdred is at least more likely town than rayn - and certainly not scum for the reasons rayn proposed. He's not even really listening or changing his views. He pretty much ignored Damdred, ignored me several times (although at least he responded to me at times) and Malongo was more of an "lynch the AFKer". It fits the view that he's scum and pushing whatever may stick to mislynch, not so well with an "active and helpful town mindset". It doesn't matters how many townies someone pushes. Townies can be very wrong. Townies can scum-read three townies for days on end. It's more how they do it, really. The part where he totally ignores facts that don't fit his narrative is more concerning but I don't think that means he's really 'trying to ML you as scum' because he would have to know that people would pick up on him doing that and thus think he's less credible and persuasive.
He's gotten away with it several times already though. I basically debunked his Malongo case, and he actually pretty much gave up on 50% of his case, and stopped arguing about the rest, but it didn't affect his read in the slightest (even though both of his reasons were weak to begin with). Then I showed him how Damdred's question at the start could easily come from town, but he just repeated and repeated his argument that it makes Damdred sure scum without any real thought process. Now he puts Tumble as town and me as scum based on a totally incorrect narrative of how the EOD went down. And basically accuses me of being scum for doing pretty much the same thing as he himself did (accepting a slightly lower-priority lynch happening on D1 - Malongo for both of us).
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Maybe "without any real thought process" was an exaggeration. It seemed like he actually somehow believed in his point on Damdred, although it was extremely weak/complicated..
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Maybe it'll do good to distance myself from this mess a bit. At the moment I have a significantly stronger scumlean on rayn than before N1 started though. Every time rayn has scumread me for stupid reasons like that EOD thing, he's been scum so far.. I guess we've fought our fair share as town vs town too, but then it's usually been because I made some sort of huge blunder, not because he's trying to fling random small points against me. That's only happened with scum rayn.
Note also how he's scumread me pretty much all game, only with shifting (weak) reasons.
Well, AFK for a while now... If I happen to die, keep a close eye on rayn.
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One more thing: apparently I'm 100% scum to rayn for accepting the Malongo lynch, even though I was advocating a lynch on any of Mal/Tumble/rayn, but Tumble is 100% town when he accepted the Malongo lynch despite townreading (to some extent) Malongo and scumreading rayn???
?????? ??!!!????
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I guess you could be right.. I've been a bit fixated on the way how rayn/Tumble scumteam would work in that EOD (Tumble distancing from rayn, then "hesitating" to make it possible to save rayn if needed) - but if rayn was town, then Tumble would most likely be town in that situation. So it's a bit hasty to judge Tumble to be scum really.
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At least Tumble shouldn't be lynched before rayn IMO as things stand
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EPT
