|
On February 08 2017 19:09 RtaniSoul wrote:
For me it's also a PoE thing. Sharkie looks overwhelmingly town in so many of his posts as does Silverika, and the amount Vivax has invested in this game plus his usual tunnelvision suggests pretty strongly that he's town to me as well.
The main argument to defend Grack is that he could've failed the first mission and sharkie would've been blamed, but since that's what everyone would expect him to do as spy it's the perfect thing to pad your towncred with down the line. It creates a much higher chance to be on two missions.
I actually think that's a pretty reasonable POE.
But pretend for a second that I am town and you know that I am town.
Which one of the three is mafia?
|
On February 09 2017 01:25 RtaniSoul wrote:
Typing from mobile
Sharkie, there's two reasons from my side. The first is that the reasons to townread Grack for me has always been what he's done rather than how he's done it. The two reasons to townread Grack beyond some of his content are that the first mission passed when he could've failed it and let the blame hit you, and that he scumread vivax when he could've joined the sharkie/rtan hate train.
The first can be explained by the fact that if he's a spy, grack is probably their carry. Failing the first mission is more likely to get him scrutiny down the road as many people have used this argument to call him town. The second I believe comes from TMI. He knows you're resistance and reading what you've posted it looks really townie to him, plus it seems like something that spies are unlikely to do which has been the foundation of his townread.
The second is that all the three others have done things I find much more unlikely to come from scum. Silverika has pushed the thread forward a myriad of times and his reads have been rigid at times yet flexible at others, most notably in their return just now where he got off the rtan/sharkie is def spies train to re-eval that. They aren't in a rush to draw a conclusion either. I went through their filter a bit yesterday and found it impossible to see a spy narrative there.
Vivax is harder to explain and simple at the same time. He sucks at scum and unless he has a strong team is unlikely to try hard. Additionally, the weird things he's done just don't have the predictable townread consequences that grack has. Forcing yourself not to be on a team even when everyone TR's you doesn't make sense for scum. He also feels like he was way too smug about "catching" us which I have difficulty seeing coming from scum Vivax.
Overall I still think that Vivax/Artanisoul are the scummers. Look at the way that Artanisoul is interpreting my actions compared to the way he interprets Vivax's actions.
Grackaroni is town reading the person who I view as obvious town instead of trying to push the blame onto him like Vivax/Silverika were doing? It must be TMI. He's just trying to get town read by doing things that spies are unlikely to do.
Vivax attacks people for including themselves in their teams and then follows up by not including himself in his team? That seems like something that spies are unlikely to do, so he's probably town.
Also I don't think the description of Vivax's scum play is entirely accurate. He had a strong scum game just recently in Haunted Mansion.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/513523-haunted-mansion-3?user=Vivax&page=5
|
On February 09 2017 04:47 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 04:10 Grackaroni wrote:On February 08 2017 19:09 RtaniSoul wrote:
For me it's also a PoE thing. Sharkie looks overwhelmingly town in so many of his posts as does Silverika, and the amount Vivax has invested in this game plus his usual tunnelvision suggests pretty strongly that he's town to me as well.
The main argument to defend Grack is that he could've failed the first mission and sharkie would've been blamed, but since that's what everyone would expect him to do as spy it's the perfect thing to pad your towncred with down the line. It creates a much higher chance to be on two missions. I actually think that's a pretty reasonable POE. But pretend for a second that I am town and you know that I am town. Which one of the three is mafia? ??? how exactly do you think it's a reasonable PoE when the PoE leads to you? like it literally says "everyone else is posting townie, and our main reason to townread grack was the success of the first mission" you're not making sense
Because I did a similar POE to get to Vivax, which was pretty clear from my posts.
|
On February 09 2017 05:28 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 05:23 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2017 04:47 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 09 2017 04:10 Grackaroni wrote:On February 08 2017 19:09 RtaniSoul wrote:
For me it's also a PoE thing. Sharkie looks overwhelmingly town in so many of his posts as does Silverika, and the amount Vivax has invested in this game plus his usual tunnelvision suggests pretty strongly that he's town to me as well.
The main argument to defend Grack is that he could've failed the first mission and sharkie would've been blamed, but since that's what everyone would expect him to do as spy it's the perfect thing to pad your towncred with down the line. It creates a much higher chance to be on two missions. I actually think that's a pretty reasonable POE. But pretend for a second that I am town and you know that I am town. Which one of the three is mafia? ??? how exactly do you think it's a reasonable PoE when the PoE leads to you? like it literally says "everyone else is posting townie, and our main reason to townread grack was the success of the first mission" you're not making sense Because I did a similar POE to get to Vivax, which was pretty clear from my posts. if you mean where does our poe take us if the host declares you an innocent child, then i guess probably vivax as well. is that what you're trying to get at?
More or less.
I just wanted to know, if you were in my position, who you would be scum reading.
|
I don't really know what to make of your other post. It doesn't really address what I was trying to say and for some reason you interpret it as me trying to convince you that you are scum.
|
I actually feel a lot less good about my theory just based on how confused you seem to be by it.
I got this idea because I was feeling that sharkie and Silverika were very likely town.
If the first team is all town, there has to be some reason for it to have gone through so easily. Vivax/you make the most sense as scum who might vote for the mission because you two shaped the mission by selecting sharkie and were the overwhelming choices to be added to the next mission.
So my guess was that Vivax wasn't able to add himself because he didn't want to look like a hypocrite after all of the griping he did earlier. He didn't want to flip his read on you, so he didn't add you. And the third scum probably didn't look good enough to add.
Otherwise I basically have to conclude that Silverika is scum. Which seems increasingly possible.
|
On February 09 2017 06:05 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 06:05 sicklucker wrote:On February 09 2017 00:47 sharkie wrote:
What is wrong with you all?
Suddenly Grack is everyone's favourite guy to hit upon? How can anyone turn from most trusted guy (wanted on the team by literally everyone) to the dumping ground of mistrust. And the most surprising thing out of all is how vivax and RT totally forgot their vendetta with each other and suddenly are best buddies (not saying that both of them are spies). I don't think I have ever seen anyone jump up so high in trust as vivax did while being in a failed mission.
Everyone can imagine Grack being the mastermind from the shadows, manipulating everyone from day one. Yesterday most didn't even bother listening to what I was saying how good spies don't play it the conventional way and you believed that I have to be obvious spy 100% (with the exception of RT). If you can consider Grack being a spy then surely silver can be a spy too (not saying that they are but has to be kept in mind). Way too many people are ganging up on Grack (math wise).
Also I even read how SL could be a possible resistance player, now that is one thing I cannot imagine at all. That guy doesn't care one bit about what is happening in the game. He doesn't even know who was sent out for the second mission..
Now I expect I get shit for defending Grack just like RT did yesterday for defending me... vivax was not on a failed mission.... lol? yes i do you dont
Are you two different people?
wtf?
And Vivax was on a failed mission.
|
On February 09 2017 06:09 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 06:00 Grackaroni wrote:
I actually feel a lot less good about my theory just based on how confused you seem to be by it.
I got this idea because I was feeling that sharkie and Silverika were very likely town.
If the first team is all town, there has to be some reason for it to have gone through so easily. Vivax/you make the most sense as scum who might vote for the mission because you two shaped the mission by selecting sharkie and were the overwhelming choices to be added to the next mission.
So my guess was that Vivax wasn't able to add himself because he didn't want to look like a hypocrite after all of the griping he did earlier. He didn't want to flip his read on you, so he didn't add you. And the third scum probably didn't look good enough to add.
Otherwise I basically have to conclude that Silverika is scum. Which seems increasingly possible. maybe we were reading a different game? your theory hinges on vivax being scared shitless to alter his position on anything as scum, yeah? so if he's too scared to put himself on a team, and too scared to change his read on us, and whoever this third is is never going to make a team as you claim... like why even play? lol >< half the game was convinced sharkie was scum cause vote logic and vivax led the anti-rtani crusade. this doesn't make sense grack @ sl but, but, i don't want sharkie to be scum, cause if that's the case lex and i are the biggest suckers on the planet :/
I don't really think he's scared shitless. I just think it could be an acceptable team for him to submit as mafia.
|
On February 09 2017 06:15 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 06:14 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2017 06:09 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 09 2017 06:00 Grackaroni wrote:
I actually feel a lot less good about my theory just based on how confused you seem to be by it.
I got this idea because I was feeling that sharkie and Silverika were very likely town.
If the first team is all town, there has to be some reason for it to have gone through so easily. Vivax/you make the most sense as scum who might vote for the mission because you two shaped the mission by selecting sharkie and were the overwhelming choices to be added to the next mission.
So my guess was that Vivax wasn't able to add himself because he didn't want to look like a hypocrite after all of the griping he did earlier. He didn't want to flip his read on you, so he didn't add you. And the third scum probably didn't look good enough to add.
Otherwise I basically have to conclude that Silverika is scum. Which seems increasingly possible. maybe we were reading a different game? your theory hinges on vivax being scared shitless to alter his position on anything as scum, yeah? so if he's too scared to put himself on a team, and too scared to change his read on us, and whoever this third is is never going to make a team as you claim... like why even play? lol >< half the game was convinced sharkie was scum cause vote logic and vivax led the anti-rtani crusade. this doesn't make sense grack @ sl but, but, i don't want sharkie to be scum, cause if that's the case lex and i are the biggest suckers on the planet :/ I don't really think he's scared shitless. I just think it could be an acceptable team for him to submit as mafia. do you disagree with my logic?
Which logic?
|
On February 09 2017 06:16 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 06:15 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2017 06:15 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 09 2017 06:14 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2017 06:09 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 09 2017 06:00 Grackaroni wrote:
I actually feel a lot less good about my theory just based on how confused you seem to be by it.
I got this idea because I was feeling that sharkie and Silverika were very likely town.
If the first team is all town, there has to be some reason for it to have gone through so easily. Vivax/you make the most sense as scum who might vote for the mission because you two shaped the mission by selecting sharkie and were the overwhelming choices to be added to the next mission.
So my guess was that Vivax wasn't able to add himself because he didn't want to look like a hypocrite after all of the griping he did earlier. He didn't want to flip his read on you, so he didn't add you. And the third scum probably didn't look good enough to add.
Otherwise I basically have to conclude that Silverika is scum. Which seems increasingly possible. maybe we were reading a different game? your theory hinges on vivax being scared shitless to alter his position on anything as scum, yeah? so if he's too scared to put himself on a team, and too scared to change his read on us, and whoever this third is is never going to make a team as you claim... like why even play? lol >< half the game was convinced sharkie was scum cause vote logic and vivax led the anti-rtani crusade. this doesn't make sense grack @ sl but, but, i don't want sharkie to be scum, cause if that's the case lex and i are the biggest suckers on the planet :/ I don't really think he's scared shitless. I just think it could be an acceptable team for him to submit as mafia. do you disagree with my logic? Which logic? regarding vivax unlikely to be scum by himself -_-
No that was the whole point...
I said that you were probably mafia with him because the original team didn't have a mafia.
|
I'll also say that it's getting weird for me to continue arguing over this theory because the longer I argue the more I'm starting to believe that the scum is just Silverika being cranky.
|
On February 09 2017 06:22 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 06:20 Grackaroni wrote:
I'll also say that it's getting weird for me to continue arguing over this theory because the longer I argue the more I'm starting to believe that the scum is just Silverika being cranky. okay now i just want you to tell me that i'm right ^^ it's mean to say you don't agree with my logic but at the same time seem to accept it by suspecting silver if you don't think what i'm saying makes sense, why do you think it's silver now?
Because you can't understand the theory! If the theory is true then it shouldn't be such a chore to walk you through it.
Again, the whole point of it was that I was trying to think of why the mission may have passed if I was to trust my reads on Silver & Sharkie.
A pairing of you/Vivax made a lot of sense to me.
I'm just trying to make sense of the missions. And I think the people that should be most suspect are the people who didn't seem to put much thought into passing the last two missions despite the strangeness of votes and the thread atmosphere.
I believe that would be you/Vivax/Silver/TW/SL
|
On February 09 2017 06:26 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 06:20 Grackaroni wrote:
I'll also say that it's getting weird for me to continue arguing over this theory because the longer I argue the more I'm starting to believe that the scum is just Silverika being cranky. that was my original theory =[
That was your original theory lol.
|
On February 09 2017 06:36 sicklucker wrote:
so in a silver is scum world safe to say im town eh?
Not really. It's not like you said anything to convince anyone that he was scum. Plus I feel like spies are a little bit incentivized to oppose one another in this setup so that everyone in town wants to side with at least one of the spies.
Think of the game where Tumble/I were mafia and the town split down the middle into two opposing camps. After Tumble got lynched we were able to lynch a bunch of his supporters. I kind of think a similar strategy is ideal here to gain the trust of the most people.
|
On February 09 2017 06:37 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 06:31 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2017 06:22 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 09 2017 06:20 Grackaroni wrote:
I'll also say that it's getting weird for me to continue arguing over this theory because the longer I argue the more I'm starting to believe that the scum is just Silverika being cranky. okay now i just want you to tell me that i'm right ^^ it's mean to say you don't agree with my logic but at the same time seem to accept it by suspecting silver if you don't think what i'm saying makes sense, why do you think it's silver now? Because you can't understand the theory! If the theory is true then it shouldn't be such a chore to walk you through it. Again, the whole point of it was that I was trying to think of why the mission may have passed if I was to trust my reads on Silver & Sharkie. A pairing of you/Vivax made a lot of sense to me. I'm just trying to make sense of the missions. And I think the people that should be most suspect are the people who didn't seem to put much thought into passing the last two missions despite the strangeness of votes and the thread atmosphere. I believe that would be you/Vivax/Silver/TW/SL >> -flicks- no, see that's not how this works. you say, rsoul, you're brilliant, your logic is amazing (cause it is!) and you have shown me the light! i now realize how stupid i was to even suggest this possibility of scum yoloing based off silliness ego-stroking is very good for an rsoul. saying he's reevaluating because she's too stupid to grasp his theory is very rude. exceedingly rude. (first off, i do grasp it just fine, just don't see it as valid even if i didn't already know it was wrong lol ><) and second off lying to be nice is a thing THE RSOUL ISN'T STUPID -beats with an overripe banana
Haha.
I don't think you understand what I was trying to say but what I was trying to say probably isn't right anyway, so I guess we can argue over which one of us is stupid.
Here's the bullet points:
* Silver/Sharkie seem really likely town
* Therefore, Vivax must be scum
* But then the votes for the first mission wouldn't make sense
* Unless the team was both Vivax & Artanisoul, in which case it could be perfectly viable for scum to approve.
The reason I'm changing my mind isn't because I think for Vivax to be scum one of Silver/Sharkie also must be scum.
If Silver is scum then I think Vivax is a less likely partner than quite a few other people.
|
On February 09 2017 07:02 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 06:53 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2017 06:37 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 09 2017 06:31 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2017 06:22 RtaniSoul wrote:On February 09 2017 06:20 Grackaroni wrote:
I'll also say that it's getting weird for me to continue arguing over this theory because the longer I argue the more I'm starting to believe that the scum is just Silverika being cranky. okay now i just want you to tell me that i'm right ^^ it's mean to say you don't agree with my logic but at the same time seem to accept it by suspecting silver if you don't think what i'm saying makes sense, why do you think it's silver now? Because you can't understand the theory! If the theory is true then it shouldn't be such a chore to walk you through it. Again, the whole point of it was that I was trying to think of why the mission may have passed if I was to trust my reads on Silver & Sharkie. A pairing of you/Vivax made a lot of sense to me. I'm just trying to make sense of the missions. And I think the people that should be most suspect are the people who didn't seem to put much thought into passing the last two missions despite the strangeness of votes and the thread atmosphere. I believe that would be you/Vivax/Silver/TW/SL >> -flicks- no, see that's not how this works. you say, rsoul, you're brilliant, your logic is amazing (cause it is!) and you have shown me the light! i now realize how stupid i was to even suggest this possibility of scum yoloing based off silliness ego-stroking is very good for an rsoul. saying he's reevaluating because she's too stupid to grasp his theory is very rude. exceedingly rude. (first off, i do grasp it just fine, just don't see it as valid even if i didn't already know it was wrong lol ><) and second off lying to be nice is a thing THE RSOUL ISN'T STUPID -beats with an overripe banana Haha. I don't think you understand what I was trying to say but what I was trying to say probably isn't right anyway, so I guess we can argue over which one of us is stupid. Here's the bullet points: * Silver/Sharkie seem really likely town * Therefore, Vivax must be scum * But then the votes for the first mission wouldn't make sense * Unless the team was both Vivax & Artanisoul, in which case it could be perfectly viable for scum to approve. The reason I'm changing my mind isn't because I think for Vivax to be scum one of Silver/Sharkie also must be scum. If Silver is scum then I think Vivax is a less likely partner than quite a few other people. -squints at- you still haven't corrected my logic at all, because my logic is infallible! unassailable! would require an insane vivax of craziness! (yes i am still trying to get someone to show me how i'm wrong; no dice so far. must mean i'm right  ) more to the point, you reevaluating based not on my unassailable logic but rather on the shoddy logic that my not following your theory 'invalidates' it is kinda poor. if spies don't have a qt, i don't have to understand what vivax is doing for us to be spies together. that's a pretty strange reason to drop the theory entirely
Hey quit squinting at me. It's unnerving.
I think Artanis understood what I was saying. Maybe try talking to him about it instead.
|
I guess. You have the longest filter but you're also two different people. You probably don't deserve all of the scum reads that you get.
|
If you look through the entirety of my filter I think my accusation has been reasonable. Especially the post I made where you point out something that I did that's unlikely to come from mafia and argue that it therefore must come from mafia, and then you point out something Vivax did that's unlikely to come from mafia and argue that it precludes him from being mafia.
There's also just the randomness of Vivax's accusation against you during day 1, which goes along with what I said to Sicklucker. And I'm not sure why you're calling me out for not calling you town while saying that Vivax is town because he wouldn't be calling you scum as mafia.
But anyway. . .
I would like to see some Silverika games.
|
And for a final explanation, I'm saying this:
1) Silver/Sharkie seem really likely town
2) Therefore, Vivax must be scum
3) But then the votes for the first mission wouldn't make sense
4) Unless the team was both Vivax & Artanisoul, in which case it could be perfectly viable for scum to approve.
1 implies 2.
2 implies 3.
3 implies 4.
Now, by the time I get to 4 I think it's reasonable to say that maybe I should just reconsider 1, which is what I'm doing now.
You guys are saying that I should think be thinking that Vivax is on a team with Sharkie/Silver. That's possible but it isn't where my logic for Vivax being scum came from in the first place. If I'm considering one of Sharkie/Silver scum (Silver) then I would just re-evaluate my Vivax read entirely.
|
On February 09 2017 07:45 RtaniSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2017 07:37 Grackaroni wrote:
If you look through the entirety of my filter I think my accusation has been reasonable. Especially the post I made where you point out something that I did that's unlikely to come from mafia and argue that it therefore must come from mafia, and then you point out something Vivax did that's unlikely to come from mafia and argue that it precludes him from being mafia.
There's also just the randomness of Vivax's accusation against you during day 1, which goes along with what I said to Sicklucker. And I'm not sure why you're calling me out for not calling you town while saying that Vivax is town because he wouldn't be calling you scum as mafia.
But anyway. . .
I would like to see some Silverika games. The difference between you and Vivax is that Vivax calls me mafia literally every single game except when I'm mafia. As for the 'unlikely to come from mafia and therefore it must come from mafia', it was more related to the fact that those actions have defined most people's reasons for townreading you including my own. It was more explaining how they can make sense from scum which felt like a more reasonable explanation than I could think of for any of the other people on the mission.
And I don't know why that is quite honestly.
Beforehand people were town reading me for my posts and then people leaned into that WIFOM reason to town read me. Now I'm only hearing about that as a reason for why I could be town, while ignoring everything before that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
