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On January 06 2017 11:48 B0stonSC wrote:
Hello! Sorry, hadn't realized this has started. Let me read through everything, and then I'll post thoughts
This post pings me but I can't really figure out why. Like he posts this 2-4 hours-ish into the game and starts off by apologising for not being around here earlier which is pretty weird for town to do. I can't imagine myself saying sorry for something as a first post kind of deal so I don't get why he would is what I'm getting at.
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I'm liking Vivax's attention to thread detail with his questioning.
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I don't hate DF's attitude to being questioned either.
Vivax is good to keep around because he's actively trying to push the game forward regardless of alignment.
I remember liking one of SW's posts. Forget the number but it was similar to what I was thinking and we had similar moments like that when we were both uninformed factions (although she was Neut in the game I refer to I think this rule applies).
Boston/ ME had terrible entrances which are >rand-wolf FME.
KSC is null. I find him quite hard to read. I'm pretty wary of him because that's probably his personality shining through and I suck at discerning between personality and alignment. He's active but does not post a lot of content also.
I'm also thinking that he's trying to buddy me a bit. I think that because he said "Calix is pretty townie" and that was after I had pushed him a bit for reads and that was his first legit town-lean/ read that he gave so he might be trying to appease me there. Then he later said that ika/ SW/ Calix are his town-leans (and these people were the active ones at the time so might be sidling up to us) so I don't trust him much atm.
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On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:21 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 10:43 Calix wrote:
I sense I'll have an aneurysm at this rate.
DF, you seem sensible. What else have you noticed so far? I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted. His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful. Why not 1gu then? I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up.
I don't agree with this assessment. DF's initial read of ika (or whatever you want to call it) doesn't look like it's intended to 'smear' him since he notes it's a fee-fees kind of read. imo smears tend to be more logical so that people are more likely to agree with them.
AFK, work and stuff.
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On January 06 2017 20:20 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 16:11 Calix wrote:
I don't hate DF's attitude to being questioned either.
Vivax is good to keep around because he's actively trying to push the game forward regardless of alignment.
I remember liking one of SW's posts. Forget the number but it was similar to what I was thinking and we had similar moments like that when we were both uninformed factions (although she was Neut in the game I refer to I think this rule applies).
Boston/ ME had terrible entrances which are >rand-wolf FME.
I read it through a few times and I don't like darth's attitude , I believe it's mostly his first post which is overly defensive to me. Show nested quote + Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted.
His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful.
Show nested quote +
KSC is null. I find him quite hard to read. I'm pretty wary of him because that's probably his personality shining through and I suck at discerning between personality and alignment. He's active but does not post a lot of content also.
I'm also thinking that he's trying to buddy me a bit. I think that because he said "Calix is pretty townie" and that was after I had pushed him a bit for reads and that was his first legit town-lean/ read that he gave so he might be trying to appease me there. Then he later said that ika/ SW/ Calix are his town-leans (and these people were the active ones at the time so might be sidling up to us) so I don't trust him much atm
My town reads are of active people because I associate activity with being town. especially d1 when info is limited. Like say things I generally agree with or I think you believe and be active gets you a d1 pass from me.
A reasonable explanation, although I only agree on the point that active players should get a pass given how slow the game's going right now.
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On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info.
I don't like this post.
Why are you answering for Boston? It's a simple question that he can answer by himself. And why explain your answer in enough depth that you even say why Boston might not have picked BTDT? (assuming that's why you brought up BTDT anyway)
I also feel that your read on Boston does the over-explaining thing as well because you bring up all the minor things he has done so far.
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On January 06 2017 22:30 ika42 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 15:53 Calix wrote:On January 06 2017 11:48 B0stonSC wrote:
Hello! Sorry, hadn't realized this has started. Let me read through everything, and then I'll post thoughts This post pings me but I can't really figure out why. Like he posts this 2-4 hours-ish into the game and starts off by apologising for not being around here earlier which is pretty weird for town to do. I can't imagine myself saying sorry for something as a first post kind of deal so I don't get why he would is what I'm getting at. for someone who uses logic, your using a gut read here. it it more just a guess or more of a "well i would not do this" thing?
I'm starting to rely more on intuition after a slew of games where I MLed a townie despite them having a townie tone/ gut feeling telling me it was a bad lynch despite them making no sense as town FMPOV. However it's not a massive part of my play-style because I'm not a very intuitive person.
In this case, I know what bothers me (the apology) but I can't really put it into words. It's like he's not suspicious but he's trying to make himself less suspicious by being meek and apologetic, kinda?
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On January 06 2017 22:42 ika42 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 09:44 Grackaroni wrote:On January 06 2017 09:42 Calix wrote:On January 06 2017 09:39 Grackaroni wrote:
I'll answer the questions.
1) I'm always town.
2) 5 years
3) no
4) spammy
5) We'll have to find out.
6) Probably Calix. What makes you say that re: #6? We've only been in one game before. We've definitely played more than one because in the last game we got in a shit fight. I usually watch the games that I'm not in and the one scum game I saw you play you didn't seem like you were able to match your town play. can you link me this game?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/513316-newbie-student-mafia-xxiii?user=Calix
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On January 06 2017 22:48 ika42 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 22:42 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 22:40 ika42 wrote:On January 06 2017 22:35 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 17:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 16:25 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol
But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. She asked me if I had picked up on anything else and that was the only thing I had found worth mentioning. I think it's hardly accurate to say that I'm trying to smear the dude. It's refreshing to assess someone's motives without knowing meta. You're less likely to talk yourself out of gut reads. No idea why you find that problematic. You're acting like I'm on a crusade against the guy lol. It's always easy to call out someone for being trolly or not contributive. And I don't see how that applies to him in particular. Even for yourself it's such a weak argument that you call it not a real read. So I find it unusual that asked whether you saw something worth picking up, you do it over something that you didn't feel strongly about, and for something that is imo NAI (not alignment indicative for who doesn't know) at this stage. So one possibility is you were simply being casual as town and throwing that out there even though for your play it will have little impact as you don't want to pursue that further. Then again that would mean that your answer to Calix "did you see something worthwhile" still wasn't answered and that you didn't find an avenue for finding scum there. Or you are scum with the pressure that comes to post something looking useful well knowing that as long as you post something that you don't have to commit to, you're fine. And that post also falls in this category, too. Now from this ambiguity why do I think that it makes you more likely mafia? Scum that doesn't have a trolly town meta by default will be under pressure to look useful. Your filter apart from one or two posts seems like you are trying to look useful. That post isn't something I believe you think to be useful. Otherwise tell me why you believe it's useful. Achieves something for yourself besides satisfying a request that you would grant only to enhance your standing with the town, which is mafia play. Yea scum try to appear useful. This is why I focused on ika compared to someone like Onegu. Ika started the game with this useful looking questionnaire thing that everyone agrees is NAI for everyone-- but it gets people talking! Since that post it's basically been chummy with KSC and SW. I just feel like everything else in this game could've happened without using the questionnaire, which reminds me of the "appearance of utility" meta point. Do you have any opinion of Grack or Calix atm? is that last part directed at me or vivak? cus you reference me in here but im not sure if its a direct at me due to me being here. Nah that's towards Vivax. I posted that at the same time as you did your flurry of recent posts. Speaking of which, what do you make of Vivax so far? null scum the post he made here: Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 13:38 Vivax wrote:I like these questions. Just the first is pointless, insert generic yes. Don't think anything related to them deserves to be alignment indicative, but it's a nice way of getting to know new faces, On January 06 2017 09:25 ika42 wrote:
are you town? zzz.
how long have you played mafia? 6-7 years, I think?
do you play elsewhere and if so where? Town of Salem when I want a quick casual game where I can execute people in jail.
What is your typical play style? Agreeable and low activity as scum and abrasive, sometimes spammy as town.
how do you scumhunt/townhunt? That doesn't fit in a questionnaire.
do you know anyone here that you can read very well? Nah no one in the dead sure category.
is what sticks out to me right now. He goes "oh NAI stuff, let me claim its NAI and answer it" but the bigger thing is what is bolded. The way hes putting it out there (oh jsut punch in yes) feels like a guilty conscious of "well i'm scum who needs to put in generic sounding yes" cus i could of said to mine (or anyone for that matter) "why yes i am town", "lol, ya im town", hell someone could even say "nah im miller" or "im scum you got me" like i've asked that dozens of times and gotten anything from someone claiming to be a citizen (VT) to a jester who needs to be lynched by specific people. do i make sense? I kinda streamlined it
If you're saying that Vivax is demonstrating a guilty conscience by giving an awkward answer to the "are you town" question then I get where you're coming from.
I just don't agree that how people respond to those are AI.
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brb will comment on SW/ ika/ Vivax in a bit.
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I'm starting to relate to those people who always whine about how hard Calix vs NU is to read because I find the ika/ SW/ Vivax thing hard to follow. I'm still not sure I actually understand the full details of the case against Vivax.
The one point that I really relate to is how Vivax deflects questions about his talking-for-people tendency with snark and doesn't answer them. When I asked about why he was answering for Boston he did that and he did it later on with SW. I see no purpose in speaking for other people on simple questions like "why did you vote for Onegu" and reads like busywork. I want an explanation for that because that's scummy as hell and he didn't counter that point off-the-cuff.
+ Show Spoiler [Evidence and shit] +On January 06 2017 23:31 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:26 Calix wrote:On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. I don't like this post. Why are you answering for Boston? It's a simple question that he can answer by himself. And why explain your answer in enough depth that you even say why Boston might not have picked BTDT? (assuming that's why you brought up BTDT anyway) I also feel that your read on Boston does the over-explaining thing as well because you bring up all the minor things he has done so far. Yes I gave a read on a player while Kelsier was around to talk about him. Such scum. On January 06 2017 23:25 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:18 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:21 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted. His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful. Why not 1gu then? I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. WTF? Why is ika hard town to you? And don't say he's not cuz no way would you defend him like this unless you are town who believes he's town or scum trying to get towncred if he's town. There's always a chance you are scumbuddies too with this attitude. So why are you townreading him? Let me adopt your logic for a moment: "Why are you scumreading Ika, silverwolf. Where did you scumread Ika huh?" By your logic, right now you would be scumreading Ika cause you are attacking my townread on him. But that's wrong! I can perfectly question someone's means of reading someone without having a read on that someone. Questioning the method is not the same as questioning the outcome.
I didn't get the impression that Vivax made his posts against DF with the intent to defend ika so making guesses about ika's alignment from Vivax's behaviour is questionable imo. However I think that SW makes good observations about the discrepancy between Vivax's read on ika (or lack of it) and what he says regarding him. I feel like if you interact or talk about a player a lot, you should have a good reason if you end up with a null/ no read on them.
I liked ika's reactions to Vivax a lot.
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On January 06 2017 23:26 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. I don't like this post. Why are you answering for Boston? It's a simple question that he can answer by himself. And why explain your answer in enough depth that you even say why Boston might not have picked BTDT? (assuming that's why you brought up BTDT anyway) I also feel that your read on Boston does the over-explaining thing as well because you bring up all the minor things he has done so far.
I asked why you were answering for Boston here wrt the first part of your post (where you gave an explanation for why he might have voted for Onegu).
On January 06 2017 23:31 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:26 Calix wrote:On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. I don't like this post. Why are you answering for Boston? It's a simple question that he can answer by himself. And why explain your answer in enough depth that you even say why Boston might not have picked BTDT? (assuming that's why you brought up BTDT anyway) I also feel that your read on Boston does the over-explaining thing as well because you bring up all the minor things he has done so far. Yes I gave a read on a player while Kelsier was around to talk about him. Such scum.
You respond with snark here.
So I don't understand your response.
Your last paragraph is a mischaracterisation. Nobody has argued that you can't give reads using your initiative. That's not the argument being made here and I'd like to know where you got the idea that it was from. To the best of my understanding, it's the way that you're "giving reads" (as you put it) re: Boston/ ika that SW is questioning you about.
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On January 07 2017 01:48 Vivax wrote:
So far you and Ika both asked such loaded questions that already imply I did something I did not. Obviously you're not going to get a nice answer to "Do you always beat your wife" type of questions.
Your point?
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On January 07 2017 01:54 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 01:52 Calix wrote:On January 07 2017 01:48 Vivax wrote:
So far you and Ika both asked such loaded questions that already imply I did something I did not. Obviously you're not going to get a nice answer to "Do you always beat your wife" type of questions. Your point? If you ask shitty questions you get shitty answers
If you think playing 20 questions sucks then I'll let you do something else.
I'd rather take a nap or something than have a lengthy discussion tbh lol.
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On January 07 2017 04:38 Kmatt wrote:reps)squishyMade one relevant post and bailed. It's too early to call anyone hard scum on that, but if he doesn't show up soon I'll consider him on the radar. MichaelEhrmantrautWell he's not dead but not very alive either. I took forever making this myself so I can't be too rustled over the afk. Just another one passing by, null for now. ika42While the questionnaire is still NAI to me, the back and forth with Vivax looked good to me. An easy trap for mafia to fall into is to take any townread they can get. I'll go town here gesoSilverwolf77I can see why you don't like Vivax's posts, but I don't agree with you enough to vote on him as is. I do like the way you prodded here. Like Vivax said earlier, this looks more like two town bumping into each other. B0stonSCI don't like it. I wouldn't be half as bothered if he hadn't come back in to post this And then leave again doing nothing. The hasty vote looks to me like he's trying to appear useful without having done anything. If I had to commit to a vote now this guy is the perfect balance of afk and dubious, if not scummy. beentheredonethatpls GrackaroniStill waiting on more. Like with SW, I don't scumread this guy enough to vote him, but I can see why Kelsier wouldn't like him. A bit too quick to jump the gun but I've done that myself and everyone plays D1 differently. If you could weigh in on the situation at hand I'd feel better. Leaning scum but not enough to vote while Boston is here. KelsierSCTown enough for me. No one post stands out enough but he hasn't caught my ire. Except that part about doubting me hOW daRe You OneguAFK. Not much more to say here, with the vote being so far off. Too early to call scum. darthfoleyHis posts are decent, but I'd like a read or two this far in. He's clearly kept up with the thread, pointed out posts he did and didn't like, but no conclusions. If you had to place your vote in the next 5 minutes, who would it be? Or who would you call against voting on? CalixNothing groundbreaking either but with how slow the game is I can't fault it too hard. Basically the same as Foley. VivaxI don't like any of his posts individually but is among the only people being active and pushing. As I said above, town arguing with town. So to conclude... not a lot. We had one little argument but nothing major came of it. Plenty of time before the vote so hopefully someone says something silly and gets a wagon going [small][small][small][small]other than me[small][small][small][small].
Your reads don't seem consistent to me and I'd like for you to clarify a few points. Your responses to the different AFK players doesn't make any sense to me as they stand.
1. I am confused as to why ME is null but reps is a potential scum-lean if he keeps AFKing - what are the differences between the two of them in your eyes that means that ME does not get this scum-lean qualifier? Why is Boston "trying to look useful without contributing" but the other AFKers aren't?
2. Why do you scum-lean Grack...if you do? Since you said he's not a stand-out, which you also said about KSC/ DF/ myself, but you have a different read, this is important.
3. Leading on from 2, why is KSC a town-lean despite not having any stand-out posts yet DF/ myself are null (?) for basically the same reasons?
4. Do you consider activity to be alignment-indicative?
5. Not a question but your excessive use of the qualifier "too early to call them scum/ hard-scum" is unnecessary and looks like hedging.
6. Have you tried pushing your own reads? Why does someone have to 'say something silly' first before you do anything? Your lack of initiative shows, something that's apparent given that your main contribution is a static reads list (this isn't a scum tell, just that posting a reads list is the least-interactive way of playing the game).
Whoops, this was more than a "few" but tl;dr: your reads look like a patchwork of confusing/ contradictory ideas that you really need to expand on.
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On January 07 2017 05:11 darthfoley wrote:
Calix do you have experience with Kelsier and/or do you have a read on him currently?
No and not really aside from what I pointed out earlier re: town reads which we've discussed. Waiting to see what he does next.
While I'm here, why do you differentiate between noobs and vets in your posts? That's popping up a fair bit in your posts.
Your point on Boston isn't terrible.
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On January 07 2017 05:30 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 05:17 Calix wrote:On January 07 2017 05:11 darthfoley wrote:
Calix do you have experience with Kelsier and/or do you have a read on him currently? No and not really aside from what I pointed out earlier re: town reads which we've discussed. Waiting to see what he does next. While I'm here, why do you differentiate between noobs and vets in your posts? That's popping up a fair bit in your posts. Your point on Boston isn't terrible. Because I have a experience with Grack, btdt and Onegu so their posts should orient the game in my mind better. Why thank you!
I see, I see.
What did you get out of kmatt's post in terms of how you read him? There's definitely a lot to discuss there :D
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On January 07 2017 05:39 Kmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 04:57 Calix wrote:On January 07 2017 04:38 Kmatt wrote:reps)squishyMade one relevant post and bailed. It's too early to call anyone hard scum on that, but if he doesn't show up soon I'll consider him on the radar. MichaelEhrmantrautWell he's not dead but not very alive either. I took forever making this myself so I can't be too rustled over the afk. Just another one passing by, null for now. ika42While the questionnaire is still NAI to me, the back and forth with Vivax looked good to me. An easy trap for mafia to fall into is to take any townread they can get. I'll go town here gesoSilverwolf77I can see why you don't like Vivax's posts, but I don't agree with you enough to vote on him as is. I do like the way you prodded here. Like Vivax said earlier, this looks more like two town bumping into each other. B0stonSCI don't like it. I wouldn't be half as bothered if he hadn't come back in to post this On January 06 2017 15:32 B0stonSC wrote:
The hell is a zj? And then leave again doing nothing. The hasty vote looks to me like he's trying to appear useful without having done anything. If I had to commit to a vote now this guy is the perfect balance of afk and dubious, if not scummy. beentheredonethatpls GrackaroniStill waiting on more. Like with SW, I don't scumread this guy enough to vote him, but I can see why Kelsier wouldn't like him. A bit too quick to jump the gun but I've done that myself and everyone plays D1 differently. If you could weigh in on the situation at hand I'd feel better. Leaning scum but not enough to vote while Boston is here. KelsierSCTown enough for me. No one post stands out enough but he hasn't caught my ire. Except that part about doubting me hOW daRe You OneguAFK. Not much more to say here, with the vote being so far off. Too early to call scum. darthfoleyHis posts are decent, but I'd like a read or two this far in. He's clearly kept up with the thread, pointed out posts he did and didn't like, but no conclusions. If you had to place your vote in the next 5 minutes, who would it be? Or who would you call against voting on? CalixNothing groundbreaking either but with how slow the game is I can't fault it too hard. Basically the same as Foley. VivaxI don't like any of his posts individually but is among the only people being active and pushing. As I said above, town arguing with town. So to conclude... not a lot. We had one little argument but nothing major came of it. Plenty of time before the vote so hopefully someone says something silly and gets a wagon going [small][small][small][small]other than me[small][small][small][small]. Your reads don't seem consistent to me and I'd like for you to clarify a few points. Your responses to the different AFK players doesn't make any sense to me as they stand. 1. I am confused as to why ME is null but reps is a potential scum-lean if he keeps AFKing - what are the differences between the two of them in your eyes that means that ME does not get this scum-lean qualifier? Why is Boston "trying to look useful without contributing" but the other AFKers aren't? 2. Why do you scum-lean Grack...if you do? Since you said he's not a stand-out, which you also said about KSC/ DF/ myself, but you have a different read, this is important. 3. Leading on from 2, why is KSC a town-lean despite not having any stand-out posts yet DF/ myself are null (?) for basically the same reasons? 4. Do you consider activity to be alignment-indicative? 5. Not a question but your excessive use of the qualifier "too early to call them scum/ hard-scum" is unnecessary and looks like hedging. 6. Have you tried pushing your own reads? Why does someone have to 'say something silly' first before you do anything? Your lack of initiative shows, something that's apparent given that your main contribution is a static reads list (this isn't a scum tell, just that posting a reads list is the least-interactive way of playing the game). Whoops, this was more than a "few" but tl;dr: your reads look like a patchwork of confusing/ contradictory ideas that you really need to expand on. To preface, the majority of these are gut reads. I probably should have said that first. With how little context I applied to those posts I thought that was assumed. 1) ME came back and at least acknowledged the situation at hand. Still not town but he's at least in the thread, which is more than can be said for a few people. What stuck out with Boston is dropping his vote right away and insisting Grack is scum. If he used that as pressure or a segway into questioning Grack's posts I could get but as soon as he makes that call it's radio silence. Then a little shitpost to remind us how despite not doing anything practical he's still watching the thread. 2) I don't personally scumread Grack, but I can see why Kelsier does. However, were it me in his position (that is to say, scumreading Grack for the same reasons) it wouldn't be a strong enough read to conclude anything. I don't, however, expect Kelsier to play out the game as I would, and I'm aware that people have different D1 strategies, so I'm willing to leave it at that. 3) KSC is more of a gut read. There aren't any major lines of questioning or conclusion I can point to to say "this is why he's town" but the acceptable amount of activity agrees with my gut enough to work with. Specifically that he has a scumread and isn't afraid to show it. You and DF both respond to people's posts, but you never seem to come out with anything other than that you "like" or "dislike" a specific post. I can understand reserving judgement on some people but you can't stay neutral on everyone in the game for much longer. 4) In this case, yes I do. 5) Deal w/ it. One scumread is good enough for me D1, since I only have one vote to use. No point making excess calls. 6) I could push my own reads but between my scumreads being mainly afk and the town quieting down I don't have much to ask. It's not that I won't act unless someone "says something silly", but from nearly every game I've played/watched, the D1 lynch comes down to someone saying something dumb and getting ML'd for it. So far I've either been the one who shoots themselves in the foot or points out the bloody foot. Crazy as it may sound I'm going to avoid actively creating or becoming a mislynch if I can help it. Yeah my initiative has been weak but like I said above I've not a lot to ask right now. I did try to fish some reads out of DF which kind of worked.
That depends on the player re: judging whether reads are gut calls or not.
1. So active-lurking? I kinda like the way you worded your Boston read with the "if he used that as pressure" part because it shows you're thinking about scenarios in some level of depth.
2. Why did you bring in KSC's opinion of Grack in your read? This would make sense if you were town-reading KSC a lot and going "well I think he's being genuine with his Grack read" or something but you're gut-reading KSC as town so that's not applicable.
3. To clarify, when I say I like/ dislike something, that's synonymous with a town/ scum lean.
4. Noted.
5. I wasn't aware that you were the type to just focus on one scum-read at a time. I remember your last game where you were hunting for three players in a 2-mafia save - what changed with regards to your mentality?
6. You don't have to ask stuff unless you want to clarify matters, just state your reads and let the people respond to them. Much better approach than grilling every single player.
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On January 07 2017 05:56 Kmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 05:50 Calix wrote:
That depends on the player re: judging whether reads are gut calls or not.
1. So active-lurking? I kinda like the way you worded your Boston read with the "if he used that as pressure" part because it shows you're thinking about scenarios in some level of depth.
2. Why did you bring in KSC's opinion of Grack in your read? This would make sense if you were town-reading KSC a lot and going "well I think he's being genuine with his Grack read" or something but you're gut-reading KSC as town so that's not applicable.
3. To clarify, when I say I like/ dislike something, that's synonymous with a town/ scum lean.
4. Noted.
5. I wasn't aware that you were the type to just focus on one scum-read at a time. I remember your last game where you were hunting for three players in a 2-mafia save - what changed with regards to your mentality?
6. You don't have to ask stuff unless you want to clarify matters, just state your reads and let the people respond to them. Much better approach than grilling every single player. I have to do something but to answer 5: that was a combination of misreading the OP and having 3 potential scum at the time. I'm not bound to force more reads than I see. Right now I only see one and various degrees of ambiguity. If I had multiple deliberate scumreads I would announce it as well as whichever one is a higher priority.
When you say stuff like this, it makes me wonder if I'm even talking to the same person as last game. Pretty annoying since I now can't compare your play with previous games with much confidence.
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On January 07 2017 06:03 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 05:39 Kmatt wrote:On January 07 2017 04:57 Calix wrote:On January 07 2017 04:38 Kmatt wrote:reps)squishyMade one relevant post and bailed. It's too early to call anyone hard scum on that, but if he doesn't show up soon I'll consider him on the radar. MichaelEhrmantrautWell he's not dead but not very alive either. I took forever making this myself so I can't be too rustled over the afk. Just another one passing by, null for now. ika42While the questionnaire is still NAI to me, the back and forth with Vivax looked good to me. An easy trap for mafia to fall into is to take any townread they can get. I'll go town here gesoSilverwolf77I can see why you don't like Vivax's posts, but I don't agree with you enough to vote on him as is. I do like the way you prodded here. Like Vivax said earlier, this looks more like two town bumping into each other. B0stonSCI don't like it. I wouldn't be half as bothered if he hadn't come back in to post this On January 06 2017 15:32 B0stonSC wrote:
The hell is a zj? And then leave again doing nothing. The hasty vote looks to me like he's trying to appear useful without having done anything. If I had to commit to a vote now this guy is the perfect balance of afk and dubious, if not scummy. beentheredonethatpls GrackaroniStill waiting on more. Like with SW, I don't scumread this guy enough to vote him, but I can see why Kelsier wouldn't like him. A bit too quick to jump the gun but I've done that myself and everyone plays D1 differently. If you could weigh in on the situation at hand I'd feel better. Leaning scum but not enough to vote while Boston is here. KelsierSCTown enough for me. No one post stands out enough but he hasn't caught my ire. Except that part about doubting me hOW daRe You OneguAFK. Not much more to say here, with the vote being so far off. Too early to call scum. darthfoleyHis posts are decent, but I'd like a read or two this far in. He's clearly kept up with the thread, pointed out posts he did and didn't like, but no conclusions. If you had to place your vote in the next 5 minutes, who would it be? Or who would you call against voting on? CalixNothing groundbreaking either but with how slow the game is I can't fault it too hard. Basically the same as Foley. VivaxI don't like any of his posts individually but is among the only people being active and pushing. As I said above, town arguing with town. So to conclude... not a lot. We had one little argument but nothing major came of it. Plenty of time before the vote so hopefully someone says something silly and gets a wagon going [small][small][small][small]other than me[small][small][small][small]. Your reads don't seem consistent to me and I'd like for you to clarify a few points. Your responses to the different AFK players doesn't make any sense to me as they stand. 1. I am confused as to why ME is null but reps is a potential scum-lean if he keeps AFKing - what are the differences between the two of them in your eyes that means that ME does not get this scum-lean qualifier? Why is Boston "trying to look useful without contributing" but the other AFKers aren't? 2. Why do you scum-lean Grack...if you do? Since you said he's not a stand-out, which you also said about KSC/ DF/ myself, but you have a different read, this is important. 3. Leading on from 2, why is KSC a town-lean despite not having any stand-out posts yet DF/ myself are null (?) for basically the same reasons? 4. Do you consider activity to be alignment-indicative? 5. Not a question but your excessive use of the qualifier "too early to call them scum/ hard-scum" is unnecessary and looks like hedging. 6. Have you tried pushing your own reads? Why does someone have to 'say something silly' first before you do anything? Your lack of initiative shows, something that's apparent given that your main contribution is a static reads list (this isn't a scum tell, just that posting a reads list is the least-interactive way of playing the game). Whoops, this was more than a "few" but tl;dr: your reads look like a patchwork of confusing/ contradictory ideas that you really need to expand on. To preface, the majority of these are gut reads. I probably should have said that first. With how little context I applied to those posts I thought that was assumed. 1) ME came back and at least acknowledged the situation at hand. Still not town but he's at least in the thread, which is more than can be said for a few people. What stuck out with Boston is dropping his vote right away and insisting Grack is scum. If he used that as pressure or a segway into questioning Grack's posts I could get but as soon as he makes that call it's radio silence. Then a little shitpost to remind us how despite not doing anything practical he's still watching the thread. 2) I don't personally scumread Grack, but I can see why Kelsier does. However, were it me in his position (that is to say, scumreading Grack for the same reasons) it wouldn't be a strong enough read to conclude anything. I don't, however, expect Kelsier to play out the game as I would, and I'm aware that people have different D1 strategies, so I'm willing to leave it at that. 3) KSC is more of a gut read. There aren't any major lines of questioning or conclusion I can point to to say "this is why he's town" but the acceptable amount of activity agrees with my gut enough to work with. Specifically that he has a scumread and isn't afraid to show it. You and DF both respond to people's posts, but you never seem to come out with anything other than that you "like" or "dislike" a specific post. I can understand reserving judgement on some people but you can't stay neutral on everyone in the game for much longer. 4) In this case, yes I do. 5) Deal w/ it. One scumread is good enough for me D1, since I only have one vote to use. No point making excess calls. 6) I could push my own reads but between my scumreads being mainly afk and the town quieting down I don't have much to ask. It's not that I won't act unless someone "says something silly", but from nearly every game I've played/watched, the D1 lynch comes down to someone saying something dumb and getting ML'd for it. So far I've either been the one who shoots themselves in the foot or points out the bloody foot. Crazy as it may sound I'm going to avoid actively creating or becoming a mislynch if I can help it. Yeah my initiative has been weak but like I said above I've not a lot to ask right now. I did try to fish some reads out of DF which kind of worked. I read through B0ston's filter and it makes no mention of Grack. Typo or have I missed something obvious?
I just checked and realised you're right. Derp.
Possible that he meant KSC with that Grack vote but I wouldn't characterise KSC's reactions to Grack as "insistence" and he talks about KSC in the same post.
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