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On December 08 2016 15:24 Tumblewood wrote:gotta check cakepie's meta to see if being an asshat is his normal meta + Show Spoiler +inb4 this is also a subversive, manipulative trick designed intentionally to buddy NU and mislead town I don't know if you think you're spotting my mafia tricks or some shit but actually you're finding evidence where there is none. literally things that could go either way and you are construing them toward I am scum without hesitation
I don't think cakepie is being an asshat. and I find the tone of your posts here to be odd. Saying they could go either way, instead of saying I'm town and you're clearly wrong I think says a lot about the position you are speaking from.
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On December 08 2016 16:16 cakepie wrote:
Oh, and will everyone please take note that I have ceased to tunneltown ExO. Thanks!
What was the purpose of this post. At first it didn't bother me but the more I think about it, the more it makes no sense. Why say this without explaining it? Do you have any reasoning for town tunneling me, then cancelling it for some reason?
Without explanation I can't see a town motivation for posting this
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On December 08 2016 18:48 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 18:35 ExO_ wrote:On December 08 2016 16:16 cakepie wrote:
Oh, and will everyone please take note that I have ceased to tunneltown ExO. Thanks! What was the purpose of this post. At first it didn't bother me but the more I think about it, the more it makes no sense. Why say this without explaining it? Do you have any reasoning for town tunneling me, then cancelling it for some reason? Without explanation I can't see a town motivation for posting this This guy, not even read, doesn't even know where and why I town tunneled him. Have you been IAW playing that other game again instead of playing the mafia game you signed up for? I'm drafting something on TW. Will get back to you.
I'm asking you to explain why you stopped town tunneling me. Just announcing it serves no purpose for town. It doesn't help us in any way. What town motivation do you have for just announcing it without explaining
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I largely agree with your reasoning on TW. But a no lynch is our safest play. I don't like the idea of the game being over if we're wrong, when we can wait for a day, get more information, and hopefully cop stays alive and really makes it easier.
It's a gamble. If we lynch scum today we effectively buy an extra day. But if we guess wrong we lose. I'm not sure im comfortable lynching today, despite how bad TW looks as a whole
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Sorry I've not really been here. I've been working more than expected and when I get home after 12 hours of working I feel like relaxing. Thinking about Mafia is a lot of work. I'm going to wind down, and come back to the thread sometime before I go to bed. Im sure cakepie will show up soon, and hopefully she can prepare her usual list of things for me to respond to.
I'll be back
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#164 TW hard town reading me --> Scum trying to buddy me because I'm town. Other players I think are town think I might be scum because I wanted cop to reveal (because I thought we had to lynch today). However they think I might be scum faking it. TW isn't even considering this possibilty. #164
#170 TW looks better with this post at least. Hes at least trying to get people to talk
#173 Don't like hopeless1der's post here.
#180 NU trying to redirect Cakepie onto TW. Could see motive for this from both scum and town persepectives
#182 In answer to NU's question here I didn't think TW was trying to buddy him. He did. I don't know what else he wants me to explain
#185 this is gonna sound weird, but TW saying he's trying to make a scum case on NU instead of his town read makes no sense to me and sounds like the thing a scum player would do....which is why I think it makes him look more town. Under suspicion I don't think a scum player would just blantantly say things like this. Instead he reminds me a bit of myself getting scumread as VT in other TL Mafia games and trying to convince players I am town; subsequently the veterans turning everything I say into reasons why it makes me scum. idk When I've skimmed the thread I haven't liked TW, but the more I read in depth the more I question the idea of him being scum.
#186 Cakepie trying to say I'm not forthcoming with information, when she literally wouldn't say information earlier saying "she didn't wanna give information to scum" Fuck that, its completely ridiculous. Misconstrues me considering the possibility that maybe I'm scum reading TW too hard b/c I'm trusting cakepie, into somehow I'm trying to blame her for something? tbh this whole post just annoys the shit out of me.
#203 Chairman Ray literally saying he's only been pushing TW and NU. He's literally admitting to not considering or caring about anything else just pushing TW and NU
#205 Cakepie should go read my dota mafia posts, and should look at the last game we played. When I'm town I usually just post whatever comes to mind. I don't sit and craft careful posts. When I'm scum I'm much more careful about what I post. You getting my stream of consciousness and seeing me move around on my reads is because I'm trying to sift through the information and am doubting myself as I go. Do you honestly think I'm faking this as scum? I have trouble believing that you do
#213 fuck off
#215 hmmmmm. I don't like what H1D is saying here. But if he's scum, why not go ahead and vote? I want to say that he's scum not wanting to be the 3rd vote, but it would no longer matter if he's the 3rd vote if town dies today anyway. Ugh. I don't like anything H1d is saying and I think it's affecting my perception of him
#217 Alright if H1D was scum and TW was town he would jump on the vote here....upon closer look it seems like CR was only the 2nd vote here...so working this out and seeing that H1D did later join this wagon (I'm assuming it was indeed at 3 votes) that if TW is town then either both scum were voting here, or TW is indeed scum.
#228 TW is trying really hard in this thread against a lot of people. It's really making me feel like he's town, but if he was he should probably be dead, or we have some combination of cakepie/H1D/CR as scum.
#231-233. Okay my assumptions were wrong yet again. wtf just happened here. H1D hops on after CR/Cakepie unvoted?
#234 CR still tunnelling NU very hard. I wish CR would consider some other possibility. To me he looks like he's more concerned with having presented a case and pushed it, rather than solving the game.
Haven't read TW's case's yet, but I think he's trying far too hard to be scum.
CR is super concerned with tunneling TW/NU. He cares more about sticking to those 2 reads than considering anything else. He started off kinda weak on them, and has considered nothing since then. CR is scum.
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On December 09 2016 19:04 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 14:11 ExO_ wrote:
#164 TW hard town reading me --> Scum trying to buddy me because I'm town. Other players I think are town think I might be scum because I wanted cop to reveal (because I thought we had to lynch today). However they think I might be scum faking it. TW isn't even considering this possibilty. #164
#170 TW looks better with this post at least. Hes at least trying to get people to talk
#173 Don't like hopeless1der's post here.
#180 NU trying to redirect Cakepie onto TW. Could see motive for this from both scum and town persepectives
#182 In answer to NU's question here I didn't think TW was trying to buddy him. He did. I don't know what else he wants me to explain
#185 this is gonna sound weird, but TW saying he's trying to make a scum case on NU instead of his town read makes no sense to me and sounds like the thing a scum player would do....which is why I think it makes him look more town. Under suspicion I don't think a scum player would just blantantly say things like this. Instead he reminds me a bit of myself getting scumread as VT in other TL Mafia games and trying to convince players I am town; subsequently the veterans turning everything I say into reasons why it makes me scum. idk When I've skimmed the thread I haven't liked TW, but the more I read in depth the more I question the idea of him being scum.
#186 Cakepie trying to say I'm not forthcoming with information, when she literally wouldn't say information earlier saying "she didn't wanna give information to scum" Fuck that, its completely ridiculous. Misconstrues me considering the possibility that maybe I'm scum reading TW too hard b/c I'm trusting cakepie, into somehow I'm trying to blame her for something? tbh this whole post just annoys the shit out of me.
#203 Chairman Ray literally saying he's only been pushing TW and NU. He's literally admitting to not considering or caring about anything else just pushing TW and NU
#205 Cakepie should go read my dota mafia posts, and should look at the last game we played. When I'm town I usually just post whatever comes to mind. I don't sit and craft careful posts. When I'm scum I'm much more careful about what I post. You getting my stream of consciousness and seeing me move around on my reads is because I'm trying to sift through the information and am doubting myself as I go. Do you honestly think I'm faking this as scum? I have trouble believing that you do
#213 fuck off
#215 hmmmmm. I don't like what H1D is saying here. But if he's scum, why not go ahead and vote? I want to say that he's scum not wanting to be the 3rd vote, but it would no longer matter if he's the 3rd vote if town dies today anyway. Ugh. I don't like anything H1d is saying and I think it's affecting my perception of him
#217 Alright if H1D was scum and TW was town he would jump on the vote here....upon closer look it seems like CR was only the 2nd vote here...so working this out and seeing that H1D did later join this wagon (I'm assuming it was indeed at 3 votes) that if TW is town then either both scum were voting here, or TW is indeed scum.
#228 TW is trying really hard in this thread against a lot of people. It's really making me feel like he's town, but if he was he should probably be dead, or we have some combination of cakepie/H1D/CR as scum.
#231-233. Okay my assumptions were wrong yet again. wtf just happened here. H1D hops on after CR/Cakepie unvoted?
#234 CR still tunnelling NU very hard. I wish CR would consider some other possibility. To me he looks like he's more concerned with having presented a case and pushed it, rather than solving the game.
Haven't read TW's case's yet, but I think he's trying far too hard to be scum.
CR is super concerned with tunneling TW/NU. He cares more about sticking to those 2 reads than considering anything else. He started off kinda weak on them, and has considered nothing since then. CR is scum.
ExO, I don't think your read on me is fair, and to some extent, it's my fault for hunting scum on my own rather than being engaged with town. I think that you are town, so I will explain to you exactly what my thought process was. I really need you and all remaining town to trust me, or at least take my reads seriously, because we all need to vote together tomorrow to lynch the mafia. Where I'm at right now is that TW and NU are the mafia, you are town, cakepie is town, hopeless is town, and obviously I am town. I have mainly pushed onto TW and NU because there are only two mafia, and it's most definitely those two. I think we can all agree that TW is mafia. I pushed onto NU many times and he's given me shoddy answers the first few times, and he's literally disappeared now and hasn't responded to anything else I posted. I posted a case on him that I want him to respond to, and I want all the town to consider as well, and so far, neither has happened. Also, nobody else has given a strong case against anybody else. Do you see why I have no reason to get off of those two? I haven't pushed much on anybody else besides TW and NU, but that doesn't mean I haven't been considering or caring about them. As for you, hopeless, and cake, there's a lot I like about your play, and a lot that I don't like, but there's little that I can point to and say "hmm, this play is really advancing the scum agenda, and scum would instinctively do this". I don't post townreads or speculative posts on people because me not being able to scumread someone doesn't mean someone else can't. If someone convinces me of a better option than TW or NU, I'm willing to reconsider. I should probably be more actively engaging with people, and that's my bad. I also feel that I'm being singled out for tunneling. If you look at other people's filters, Hopeless has been tunneling only on TW, cakepie has mostly been on TW and you, and you haven't been aggressive enough to even be considered for tunneling. So besides the fact that I literally said that I'm tunneling onto TW and NU, singling me out seems a little biased.
I don't think I can agree TW is mafia. I'll admit I've been back and forth on him all game, and he's done some things that have looked scummy. But the type of posts he's made (particularly after #170), the big cases he posted, I don't think scum can fake that effort. A lot of people were tunneling him quite a bit but his reaction overall to that to me doesn't read scum now.
I feel like pointing out that I'm singling you out for tunneling (I don't think I am) isn't really a town thing to post. To me, it screams "look at all these other people they are doing something just as bad." I don't think tunneling is necessarily scum-indicative. But these 2 players are the only players you've said anything about all game. I practically challenge you to give a read on anybody else and you just can't. You're so sure of TW and NU that you're going to stick to them non stop....and I don't buy it as a town trait. I think you are a scum player who is going to stick to those reads come hell or high water. I mean look at your above post. "I think we can all agree TW is mafia: why? That's all you are going to offer here? And you're basically saying NU is scum because he gave some shoddy answers....but I don't see how that makes you lock in on scum so hard here. I don't see it. How are you so sure.
No I think it's much more likely you are scum.
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as a quick aside, NU very well could be scum, I'm not sure on him yet. I wish he were in the thread a little more, but I don't have a lot of room to talk in that regard.
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and as another aside, killing somebody yesterday is anti-town purely from a numbers perspective. 2/3 chance of guessing wrong and instantly losing, vs waiting a day, 3/5 chance of guessing wrong. Not to mention we get an extra day of information by waiting, and potentially cop's information (though fake claims could fuck this up).
I think the people voting yesterday are highly suspect. CR/Cakepike/H1D are all at the top of my suspicions. Voting yesterday was an anti-town play almost any way you look at it, in my opinion
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On December 09 2016 19:06 Chairman Ray wrote:ExO, would you mind taking a look at my case on NU: Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 06:44 Chairman Ray wrote:
My original case about NU still stands.
At the start of D1, NU and TW had townreads on one another. There was no pressure on them from anybody else. All I did was ask each of them, in a very neutral manner, what their townread was. If you were town and genuinely believed that the other person was town as well, you would just give me your town reads. Instead, NU posted his scumreads on TW about how TW is overpocketing him. The posts that NU were criticizing were posted BEFORE NU said that TW was towny. So when TW was overpocketing NU, NU should be suspicious at that time, but instead, he gave TW a townread. It wasn't until I asked him for his reasonings did he finally post his suspicions. From a mafia perspective, this makes perfect sense. Chairman Ray asked both TW and NU what their townreads were. Oh crap, he's onto us, better not seem too friendly. From a town perspective, this doesn't make a lot of sense.
Secondly, NU in two instances asked about what other people's reads of him were. At those times, TW had a strong townread on him, and only I was really on him. He argued that I wasn't pushing on him, so I guess he didn't feel any pressure at all. I would expect town to only worry about their perception if they are under the gun. So given that the overall vibe was positive towards NU, why was he so pre-occupied with other people's reads on him?
For starters:
On December 07 2016 07:47 Chairman Ray wrote:
I'd lynch either Tumblewood or NeverUnlucky. Both of them posted a bunch of game math yesterday, with the mistake of assuming everything goes well for town, even going as far as avoiding the scenario where either the cop or medic dies. A town looking at game math usually thinks about worst case scenarios and how to avoid them, whereas scum try to convince town of the best case scenarios happening. Neither of them even mentioned the possibility of cop or medic dying, probably because Koshi was a respect kill and not a blue snipe.
Isn't exactly a neutral entrance. You may have asked each of them what they thought, after your very first move in the game is to say you want to lynch both of them.
However NU's filter does kinda look bad as I read it. It's really wishy washy all over the place. It makes it difficult for me, because I really don't like the way you've played CR and my immediate reaction to that has been to assume your scum.
So let me ask you CR, assume for a second that TW is town, and NU is scum. Who would the 2nd scum be with NU?
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On December 09 2016 19:40 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 12:44 ExO_ wrote:Im sure cakepie will show up soon, and hopefully she can prepare her usual list of things for me to respond to. (Not sure where you got the idea that I'm female, I'm not.) Outstanding things you haven't responded to me or elaborated about: - Why was TW town to you at #98
- Explain that part in #107 where you are skeptical of your read and couch it in terms of me making you feel obliged to find anything scummy at all on TW.
- in #161 you "largely agree" with my TW case -- what part(s) do you not agrees with?
Maybe this time I'll finally get those answers and elaboration from you, now that I've gone and collated the questions for you in one spot? --- Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 19:21 ExO_ wrote:
I'll admit I've been back and forth on him all game Easy for you to say this, very hard for me to see your progression and reasons. Can you filter TW for me and tell me which posts are scummy/towny to and why.
Didn't I just play a game with you? I must be confusing you with someone else, don't know who.
#98: I don't remember. It's what I thought skimming the thread at the time. I don't see why you are so concerned with that particular read considering all of the new information and posts we've had since then. I got a town impression of him, not based off some super analysis but based purely off how I felt at the time.
#107 You are misconstruing what happened here. If I recall correctly in touhou mafia (assuming I haven't confused you with someone else) I thought you played well and your opening here reminded me of it. So when you started posting a scum case on TW, I looked at it and started to think that yeah TW looks scummy. But I was worried that my impression of your gameplay in touhou mafia was affecting my ability to assess if TW was scummy on my own.
#161 I didn't have any major points I disagreed with. Mainly, my impression of TW was scummy and I wanted to say I agreed that he was scummy. I wasn't putting much effort in the game because I was tired after getting home from work.
Your turn:
Why would you push so hard for a lynch on mylo, instead of waiting one more day? Its inherently anti-town, and incredibly high risk
Why would the reasons I disagreed with your case on TW be super important? I find it odd that you'd care more about the reasons for disagreeing with you than the reasons why I would think TW is scum.
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On December 09 2016 19:52 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 14:11 ExO_ wrote:
#186 Cakepie trying to say I'm not forthcoming with information, when she literally wouldn't say information earlier saying "she didn't wanna give information to scum" Fuck that, its completely ridiculous. I'm witholding information that is useful to scum. I'm asking you for information that is not useful to scum. Difference! Let's say I accept you've been operating on stream-of-consciousness mode. Fine. The problem I'm having with that is that while you go down the list of posts and toss out whatever comes to mind, you're not stopping to elaborate, and you've also missed questions that were embedded in posts. I don't know if you missed them if you're just focused on posting your brief impressions, or if you're deliberately dodging or ignoring. That's what rubs me the wrong way. Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 14:11 ExO_ wrote:
Misconstrues me considering the possibility that maybe I'm scum reading TW too hard b/c I'm trusting cakepie, into somehow I'm trying to blame her for something? tbh this whole post just annoys the shit out of me. Seems like a convoluted way to say "I like your case, cakepie, and I trust you and want to try to contribute more to a TW scum case." Again, I don't find you picking at parts of my case and saying what you agree/disagree with.
I don't like your case. Are either of you reading the same TW I am? This reads so much more like a cornered townie who is trying his damnedest to prove he is town only to get constantly told everything he does is scummy. Unless TW is some kind of super player who I don't know about then I find it highly unlikely that he's able to just pull out this level of effort.
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On December 09 2016 19:52 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 14:11 ExO_ wrote:
#186 Cakepie trying to say I'm not forthcoming with information, when she literally wouldn't say information earlier saying "she didn't wanna give information to scum" Fuck that, its completely ridiculous. I'm witholding information that is useful to scum. I'm asking you for information that is not useful to scum. Difference!
What information could you be withholding that is useful to scum? What kind of information could that possibly be? Everything I can think of would be better discussed in town, except if you are the cop. And this should be obvious but the only reason cops information shouldn't be public yet is because we want to get another night of information in before we have to lynch.
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On December 09 2016 20:05 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 20:00 ExO_ wrote:
#107 You are misconstruing what happened here. If I recall correctly in touhou mafia (assuming I haven't confused you with someone else) I thought you played well and your opening here reminded me of it. So when you started posting a scum case on TW, I looked at it and started to think that yeah TW looks scummy. But I was worried that my impression of your gameplay in touhou mafia was affecting my ability to assess if TW was scummy on my own. I was the fucking host, goddammit! How inattentive can you get?!
I confused you with Calix then I guess. Your names both start with Ca.
Errors like this happen. You might not like it, but thats the kind of person I am. I make silly mistakes. This isn't the first time and won't be the last.
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Just got home from work. wtf is going on. 3 cop claims? if any of you is VT you're fucking retarded. As per usual, im going to chill out a bit on PoE then come into the thread and actually read.
I'm off tomorrow thankfully though
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For starters just browsing, how the fuck can you claim cop without posting your checks cakepie? It makes no fucking sense. Claim cop without posting who you checked and who you are checking the next night is fake as fuck
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I 100% believe TW. I checked the places where he crumbed. Though it could've been fake, some of the letters it made no sense to cap. The amount of effort TW has put in, combined with the fact that both Cakepie and CR tried to get a train going on him (and failed) leaving him alive goes a long way to helping me believe him.
Cakepie's and CR's claims are obviously bullshit. Cakepie doesn't say who he checked N0 or N1, CR checked the dead guys. Very convenient.
NU looks like you are the decider here, and the only person other than TW I'm going to be concerned with. Let me know any questions you have more me, any analysis you might want, or anything you might find interesting.
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TW look at cakepie. He's proposing to you literally everybody as a potential scum. It's wise to consider all possibilities, but he's proposing every scenario to everyone in an attempt to get people to move their votes.
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On December 10 2016 19:18 Chairman Ray wrote:NeverUnlucky, I admit that some of the early game pushed I had on you were my own misjudgement. If you're town, it's vitally important that all three town vote together today. If any one of us is voting a different person, then it's either a no lynch or town gets lynched, and either way mafia wins. Please tell me your suspicions that I'm mafia, and I'll address it. But today, you absolutely need to vote TW. There's absolute no way he could be the real cop. Firstly, why on earth would cop spend half their time scumreading someone who they had a greencheck on? Near EoD1, TW said that he was so confident on cakepie and me being mafia, he didn't think he could possibly get lynched, and that's why he wasn't worried. But think about it. Look at cakepie's day 1 play and look at my day 1 play. Do you think it's at all reasonable to conclude that cakepie is mafia and I am mafia, with enough confidence that you would stake your life over it rather than claim your role? He was ready to stake his life over cakepie and me being the two mafia, yet, he didn't even push on us the entire day. That makes zero sense in every way. During the nightphase, he crumbed someone who he ended up shooting. That's exactly what mafia do when planning to fakeclaim. Now look at this recent post: Show nested quote +On December 10 2016 16:04 Tumblewood wrote:On December 10 2016 15:58 cakepie wrote:On December 10 2016 15:30 Tumblewood wrote:why not bait it by posting 3 minutes early? I did fake #280+281.
or why would you associate yourself with ray (it really is obvious) all game if you have no special relation to him?
If you mean me calling him craycray, no particular reason. I just thought it would be a funny nickname. If it's me seeming to let him off the hook, that's because I was focusing on you, then ExO. If you have something you want to ask me about our interactions content-wise, fire away. posting at the standard escape-NK time defeats the purpose of baiting the NK by claiming. and with ray, it's that you never seem to pressure him, you just always see the good side, which isn't how you have treated the rest of the game. Look at where he criticizes cakepie for fake claiming at the very end of the night instead of a few minutes before. Yes, that's a valid criticism, but not from TW. Look at the way TW's been playing all game long. His play has absolutely no respect to granularity whatsoever, but he notices something so subtle. That doesn't make sense coming from TW. But what does make sense is that maybe people were pushing for scum to claim at EoN, so mafia were trying to snipe the cop. Cakepie fakeclaimed way too late and they missed their chance, which is how they noticed it. Please consider this reads, because TW is mafia fakeclaiming cop, and I have to depend on every single town voting him. If you are town please keep an open mind, consider these reads. If you have any questions, let me know.
There's some major problems here. He crumbs you as his night 1 check. If he's mafia as you say, he could very easily crumb somebody else he's going to kill. His crumb was very clever, its obvious to see when you're looking for it but none of us noticed it at the time. So why crumb you at the time he did? I cannot see a good reason for him to do that if he's scum (considering you aren't dead).
Your argument about the votes on him might hold some weight if he ever got 3 votes at a single time (and was online to see them). But he never had more than 2 votes on him ever.
And look at the way your post reads. You're not trying to convince anybody you are the actual cop. You've got no crumbs to indicate anything. Do you honestly expect me to believe you're the cop, when magically you claim to have checked both people who died?
Both you and cakepie just scream scum grasping at straws right now. You want to throw as much doubt on anything and everything as you can. You're both making this long posts but are basically completely buddied.
If NU or TW is scum I'm going to be blown away. Neither of you has even been willing to ever reconsider TW at any point during the game. Despite his effort, his posts count, his breadcrumbing. It's insane. You both keep coming up with these crazy associative reads and long-winded scenarios. And the most damning thing is: Why has your opinion changed on NU? You've never posted anything explaining why suddenly NU isn't scum. What happened? It's no longer valuable to stick to your 2 reads and nothing but all game?
You and Cakepie are the mafia, and are going to lose this game.
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*minor correction, you claimed you checked TW N1 and got a read check back, not another dead player. In the scope of things I don't think it really changes anything about what I said about you
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EPT
