EPT
Newbie Student Mafia XXIV
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darthfoley
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darthfoley
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darthfoley
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I agree that a lot of the stuff so far is NAI. I think ExO vs. Calix could be TvT and was blown out of proportion based off a gif. However, I don't like this post. Who spends 4 lines discussing why the claimed VT? This is a super waste of a post. On November 03 2016 03:29 ExO_ wrote: Also to clarify why I'm claiming my VT role right now: I'm getting it out the open right now. I think in a game this size trying to fake claim to get scum to target me would be a waste of time. So I'm letting everyone know now I don't have any abilities I cannot do anything at night and can only vote. You can choose to either believe me or not, but I'm telling the truth I don't like this post. This comes off as scummy scummy buddy buddy On November 03 2016 04:32 mahrgell wrote: gosh Calix, can we please stop post synced? Also after what I read from you last game I'm afraid of myself, if I share your thoughts... I don't want to be like you  Sorry.I also don't think the theoretical discussion of anti-town vs. pro-scum has much use if it's kept theoretical. Foreman completely writing off Calix basically because of one push is helping town at all. Seems like uber tunneling that never actually helps town. Don't see any post so far that screams scum SO hard that I wouldn't entertain the possibility that my read on someone was wrong. Seems a bit scummy to me, especially D1. I agree with Skynx that the votes so far have been really dumb and useless drama Calix is a slight town read to me currently. I agreed that Skynx's posts were useless until he posted about the votes. I'll be back in about three hours, keep posting away | ||
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On November 03 2016 07:04 NeverUnlucky wrote: I agree with TT on all points. Especially line 3. His VT claim was very odd, too, even more when you see him explaining it in 4 lines. It could have been him setting up a reason to be alive late in the game as scum, or he is a blue. In any case, I highly doubt that he is VT as VTs don't claim VT. Why on earth would you bring up discussion of blues on D1, even if that's what you thought? | ||
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On November 03 2016 06:49 mahrgell wrote: 3) Next Calix asks you about NU. Instead of answering, you refuse to answer at all, because you consider Calix scum. I believe enough people pointed out at this point that this is pretty anti-town. Considering you being worried about the town atmosphere before, this is rather ironic. The only problem is that even this isn't an original point. I pointed it out, and a few others. He even admits that this point was taken from other people. Also don't like how mahrgell keeps giving himself outs. I understand it's D1, but his posts are littered with him. On November 03 2016 07:49 mahrgell wrote: - overdefended against air from Calix - retaliation vote, I mentioned I dislike those - kinda stubbornly tunneled Calix - neither of those are good things, but can also be very emotional TvT. Judging this would be easier if I knew some meta. So postponing this read for now, especially as I have higher priority lynch targets. If he thinks it would be easier knowing some meta, I expect him to go snooping and answer his question. In terms of Foreman: On November 03 2016 06:33 Foreman wrote: How do you dislike mag**** less than Calix when mag**** has been an echo chamber of Calix? I like this post. I was also puzzled with this progression from NU. For me, I believe that the wishy-washy half step in, half step out approach of mahrgell is more scum indicative than Calix's tunneling. As of now, I like Foreman better than I like mahrgell. The only thing I have taken issue with so far in Foreman's game is his early dismissal of Calix, and his open admission that he plays anti-town or something. Like ???? Also curious why Ticktock goes from this: On November 03 2016 07:00 Tictock wrote: Ok more or less caught up. Exo and Foreman seem like the obv scum team to me atm. A little less sure on Foreman, but eh w/e. ... After arguing with Calix a bunch all he did was call me scum for my one liner open. Seems like the obv lynch to me. ##Vote: Exo_ To soft defending him from NU in this post: On November 03 2016 07:21 Tictock wrote: Lol are you making it a point to put words in people's mouth or did you mix me up with someone? I don't think I said anything about Exo's shitty VT claim. Also VT's claim VT all the time. | ||
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darthfoley
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1. ExO came in 2. Got scum read and pressured 3. Weak case on Calix 4. Other people came in, namely NU, and changed the conversation 5. ExO peaced out and the current 1v1s are NU vs. Calix, Foreman vs. mahrgell 6. People seemingly forget about ExO | ||
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On November 03 2016 09:24 Calix wrote: I'll confess to missing that TPR comment entirely. What scum motivation do you two see behind it though? Is it odd? Sure, but I always figure that scum would just say "yo fam, ExO might be TPR" in their scum chat or something. Yea I know, but it doesn't make sense from any alignment imo. The existence of the scum chat kinda nulls this point, but I thought it's at least worth pointing out. I remember in previous mafia games I've played on TL, people made a big deal out of "slips" like that | ||
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On November 03 2016 09:31 NeverUnlucky wrote: I really don't understand why people are making such a big deal out of this. It is a mistake, I admit, but if I took out the "or he is blue" part of my post, the post would have had the exact same meaning, and I wouldn't have got shit for it. Saying I don't believe his VT claim is essentially saying I think he's blue or mafia. I worded the assumptions lying behind that post, t's all. I'm not making a big deal out of it, I merely thought it was weird, regardless of your alignment. I don't think we need to discuss it further. | ||
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On November 03 2016 07:17 Tictock wrote: Yea I kinda liked that you asked her about her read on marg. Still it's an odd switch in thinking to go from "Calix is scum!" to "Calix is town, and this dude is buddying her, so is scum" Also, you kinda lost your chance to change my interpretation by telling me to read your filter. Don't think I like this post; you kinda like something he did, then called it an odd switch, which is less than a scum read, then told him that his mind cant be changed?? This post, in three lines, is sending very mixed signals about his read on Foreman | ||
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On November 03 2016 21:37 Rels wrote: 1. It is obviously anti town to seriously claim VT at the start of the game. Scum usually don't do obvious scummy things, on the contrary they try to be townie. It's WIFOM, but in mafia the simplest explanation is often the right one. 2. It removes ExO's ability to fakeclaim if he's scum, which is a great tool as scum, and even more in semi open setup like the one we're playing. I hadn't thought of #2; however, couldn't he later claim blue and just say, "of course i'd claim VT early! Who wouldn't?! Didn't want mafia to think I was blue!" | ||
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On November 04 2016 01:27 NeverUnlucky wrote: Sooooo... both players who gave me shit for saying "or he is blue" are going down this road too. haHAA. + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2016 01:22 darthfoley wrote: I hadn't thought of #2; however, couldn't he later claim blue and just say, "of course i'd claim VT early! Who wouldn't?! Didn't want mafia to think I was blue!" On November 03 2016 09:51 mahrgell wrote: - read it as "can you imagine a townie speculating". I already said that I try to interpret actions from both sides. And here it completely failed to interpret this from a town perspective. Because I still don't see any motivation for a townie to speculate about it. But I guess you prefer to grammartwist it and imply stuff that wasn't there. Okay, as you asked for the explanation, I thought this would be obvious. No, I did not see it as you hinting your scumbuddies to this guy potentially being a blue. So your argument is completely moot. But there are still 2 scenarios for this to be scumplay imho: a) an attempt for getting a blueclaim out early, if that line was intentional b) if the line was unintentional... Scum has to make up stuff, has to look like they are provinding reads and content, without giving anythign away but confusion and misleads. And yes, when making up stuff, sometimes mistakes happen. So call it a slip. If it was a) I would be very disappointed in you, but b) I consider fully in the realm of possibilities. If I weight your very weird interpretation of my "A townie speculating" and compare it to my interpretation of your bluesuspicion... I give my own interpretation more likelihood to be anything than yours. I don't understand what this post is trying to imply | ||
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On November 04 2016 01:45 NeverUnlucky wrote: You called me out for something you did. Hypocrite. I called you out for something I did? I was specifically responding to Rels's second point about how it "removes his ability to fakeclaim." I think there's like 400 different ways ExO's VT claim has no bearing on his later game claims. This is not the angle you were approaching it from. | ||
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On November 03 2016 22:54 Tictock wrote: Eh, I like this thinking but I think your first point is moot since Exo stated several times that he doesn't think his claim is bad for town. I'm actually seeing more of a disconnect between how much he talked about why he claimed and yet never realized why that claim might be bad. I suppose since this is a newbie game I should elaborate on why a VT claim is bad for town. Basically it makes mafia's side goal of killing off blue roles that much easier. If you are VT and claim it is essentially helping mafia blue hunt by narrowing the pool of people they want to look into. Why do you "like this thinking" if you admit that his first point is null and you don't respond to the second point? If it's all null or NAI, what is there to like? TT's discussion of Rels seems super off to me. On November 03 2016 23:59 Tictock wrote: Honestly I don't really recall it was a bit too long ago, I'll go skim to refresh my memory though. Ah, yea he seemed like obv town that game due to how gung-ho he was right off the bat and his interactions with Lunatic (and lunatic flipping scum) made it super obv he was town. I don't feel like comparing the games is a good way to read Rels though, I've seen him be lackluster as town when he doesn't have much time and super active and involved as scum when he does. Giving it more thought I might actually give Rels a slight townlean because as scum I think he'd be more worried about how he presents his reads, here it is more like he's just sharing what he's got so far. Ticktock says two lines before that you shouldn't compare games with Rels, because of his variability, then gives him a slight townlean based off of what can only be characterized as meta analysis off of previous games. Why would you think his scum play is likely to play out one way or another when you've just admitted that he has various playstyles? On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote: So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. Not trying to rehash everything, but IMO saying it's illogical for town to do something, worded in that way, implies a mafia lean to some extent. TT, can you explain, how it shows "deeper thinking" and why that deeper thinking indicates Calix to be town? Also don't like his last defense against Skynx + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2016 01:18 Tictock wrote: And you called my post on Exo the worst case ever. This is pretty out of context. First Calix saying she wasn't scumreading him has nothing to do with his defense since Calix said that much later (I also have no issues with her pointing out something she doesn't like, calling it illogical or w/e, and then not scumreading the person for it. I actually shows deeper thinking imo). Second, of course anyone is going to defend themselves, it's about how they do it. Exo took 2 questions from Calix as some kind of immense pressure to make him post gifs (what?) and called her scum for it. That's overblown no matter how you look at it. I stand by my assessment. Him changing his stance from "I'm gunna post gifs and have fun" to "I'm gunna claim VT and get all serious about shit" is far more likely to come from someone who rolled scum and doesn't want to draw attention for posting mostly gifs. You clearly don't know what OMGUS is. You could be, but similarly to my thinking on Exo your early play was openly drawing attn to yourself which is not usually what scum want to do. I alluded to that somewhere. How does any of that make me scum? And long silence? How are you going to accuse me of taking a long silence when you've spent the whole first half of the phase just complaining about reading and only now getting around to posting substance... Your other post was decent, but you can stay floating in null/scum territory for this. The green implies that TT should be townreading Skynx, and maybe even ExO for doing things "mafia normally wouldn't do" (i.e. drawing attention to themselves early), yet he flips in the next paragraph to saying his opening was scummy for being silent? You can't have it both ways. I'm putting my vote on ##Ticktock | ||
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darthfoley
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On November 04 2016 01:53 NeverUnlucky wrote: Perhaps you have reads you would like to share? c: Sure I think Foreman is most town to me. My pyramid thing would go something like this Town Foreman NU, Calix, Skynx Rels mahrgell, ExO, TT Mafia I have Rels null because he's yet to really engage the thread besides an early read pyramid. I want to hear why he "hated" my post, among other things. Can I get Calix's and your opinion of each other? I'm pretty sure you are townreading each other, yet continue to bicker and harp on the same points. I'd also like to hear what you think of Ticktock | ||
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On November 04 2016 03:06 NeverUnlucky wrote: I was unclear. EBWOP: I had to deal with her shitty case, I could not ignore it. She ignores my response and all that comes with it. That's not only unfair, it's also scummy as hell because she is not willing to reconsider her read WHICH SHE SAID WAS A SCUMMY BEHAVIOR. I'll make her game hell as long as I'm left ignored. Find it really weird how you're up in arms over her super scummy behavior yet you town read her | ||
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On November 04 2016 03:30 Foreman wrote: Sure, as soon as you explain your read of me, which was given before you know my reads of everyone else. So the majority of my read on you is based off of your interactions with mahrgell. Although nothing you've done has screamed uber town, small things like you not really giving a shit about how people view your playstyle leads me to believe that you're playing your own style and not trying to conform to "please" other towns. Basically the antithesis of buddying. I liked this post specifically On November 03 2016 23:59 Foreman wrote: This is terribad. So any townie that you disagree with is scummy to you? Because like, two town can't see the same thing and have completely different thoughts about the same situation, what with the fact that everybody has identical environmental factors and upbringing, amirite? Oh wait... This is a bit of a segue, but mahrgell says a townie sees what I see. So if I feel myself completely unable to follow the line of thought of a player, this is a scumlean for me So naturally, you'd think he would scum read Rels, after all... On November 03 2016 23:41 mahrgell wrote: About Rels. I agree with basically none of his reads, pretty apparent with his 3 top town being my top scum. But there is one thing you can't blame him for: Trying to blend in. I would love to see him explaining his controversial reads. Mainly I'm interested in: - why does he town NU - why does he town Foreman - I can see people not agreeing my concerns regarding foreman, but seriously, what has he done to make him a townread???) - what makes foley scummy? - "hates post" okay... Tell me more. Share your thought process. I haven't seen any reasoning on those reads and admit they don't make sense to me. and eventually, in his last large post, claims that he views Rels neutrally. Which doesn't make sense considering his prescribed stance from earlier. This scum read of mine of mahrgell helps me consider you to be town. Why'd you change your vote off of mahrgell to Skynx? | ||
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On November 04 2016 04:05 Calix wrote: I'm not sure I follow your point. Does mahrgell say "Rels disagreeing with me on XYZ reads is bad" and uses the "but he's controversial" part as a mitigating factor? I can kind of see an argument for "he's hedging on Rels" but I'm not sure if that was what you were implying. I'd appreciate some clarification on your thought process here So basically, mahrgell's top scum read is Foreman. It should be followed by Rels, if he were actually following his gameplan he laid out earlier. On November 03 2016 06:49 mahrgell wrote: How many you need? You obviously ignored all my posts about yourself. But let's summarize and update: Looking at your entire post history, I try to figure out how you managed to come to the conclusion you have. If you have no information about the game, you should have seen the same as me. And yet somehow you managed to take another turn at pretty much every point in the game. So far all your actions have been about the opposite of what I would expect from someone who saw the same as I did, with the same information I have. (none). 1) you see the Calix vs Exo_ interaction and for weird reasons tunnel down on Calix. Was she(it seems like Calix is a she?) pushing Exo? I don't think so. If she was, I agree it was pointless, but well... Day1. You were sure she was pushing Exo. Okay... Happy tunneling. 2) so you chase after people for having the antitown-proscum conversation, just to push that conversation further. If it was in your interest to remove this discussion from the thread to steer the game in a more town friendly direction, you should probably not try to last word in that conversation. 3) Next Calix asks you about NU. Instead of answering, you refuse to answer at all, because you consider Calix scum. I believe enough people pointed out at this point that this is pretty anti-town. Considering you being worried about the town atmosphere before, this is rather ironic. 4) I ask you about NU too. You dismiss it as parroting. Besides the fact that I consider it not parroting, but admit, that my critique on NU was very similar to Calix (earlier, not her latest) posts, let's for a moment assume it was parroting. At this point you claimed to scumlean Calix, but didn't say anything about me. If I were a townie, and see someone else parrot a person I consider scum... I for sure as hell would do my best to get this person to stop sheeping a scummie. Either you turn on me right away, or you try to get me away from her. Instead you just dismissed me. If I was sheeping Calix and you considered her scum, you willingly gave her an additional vote. 5) Your general contribution to this thread has never been in the interest of improving the atmosphere. In none of the mentioned points have you ever tried for a constructive conversation. And your latest responses to NU weren't better either. Not sure if it was in this thread or in the other one, but when you asked about the TL meta someone (NU?) answered: "Be wrong and a dick about it" This is exactly what I see you doing here. I guess you earned it ##Vote Foreman The bolded is exactly why he should be scum leaning Rels. Rels vs. Mahrgell reads are 100% different, yet mahrgell feels the need to say that "it's weird that Rels thinks 100% opposite of me, but hey let's give him the benefit of the doubt and let him explain himself before i lean him one way or another!!!" this was not the same way he dealt with Foreman. It is fine to say, "i'm scum leaning Rels for now, cuz his reads are so wack-- but I'll hear him out." He doesn't say this; he says a null tell on someone, who by his logic, should not be null. It would be less sus if this was in the first few hours of the game, but we've been in D1 for over 24 hours, so Rels (according to mahrgell's logic) should be starting to view the game in the same way. | ||
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I'm arguing more for mahrgell being sus than Rels btw. The team thing was a little facetious | ||
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On November 04 2016 05:03 mahrgell wrote: Wtf? I have Rels on null. With a clear anouncement that I consider him scumlean if he does not deliver a good explanation. Are you even reading? And as you asked for the contrast to Foreman: I asked him out too. just that he refused any kind of answer with his amazing style, and went on doing exactly what I criticized. If Rels continues doing completely unfounded reads you are right, he will be the same as Foreman. But so far... he has not responded, so I keep him on Null. If he wonnt respond at all until end of the day... I will go with what I said so for: scumlean him. (which in return would have to make me rethink my other scumleans... having too many is not a situation im comfortable with) Null reading someone when you're mafia is safe because you can take that read wherever you want depending on town sentiment. Especially with a Calix lynch train on one and a few slight town tells on the other. I just find your hesitation scummy because Rels had like 16 hours to make an entrance. He makes one you disagree on completely, yet you still have him null | ||
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On November 04 2016 05:28 ExO_ wrote: Either you believe my VT claim, or you don't. It's interesting logic to me that you would be okay with lynching me because "I'm only VT" if you don't believe my VT claim. Is this really all you're gonna contribute? Your filter is so subpar right now and you going back to the VT claim stuff? | ||
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He STILL hasn't said anything conclusive or definitive. He keeps asking the same things to the same people to stall and buy time. He's also using the OMGIS first game defense now. I remember my first forum game (This is my fourth) and I rolled scum. I play a ton of IRL mafia and I'm pretty good at it, but I was terrible with trying to forge reads as scum G1. I can't remember the title of the game but it was on TL. I see a lot of parallels between my playstyle that game, and his play style in this game. Outside of this, I've already written content on my mahrgell scum read. Look through my filter if you want a refresher. Also find it interesting that he peaches out with all his reads for family time, then as soon as I put heat on him, he finds the time to go semi filter diving and engage with people again. ##Vote: mahrgell | ||
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All his posts are generic double reads not saying anything of great substance. I would be fine posting a bunch if I wasn't actually saying anything | ||
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On November 04 2016 07:53 Rels wrote: ##Vote darthfoley Hopefully you don't lead as effective a mislynch train as you did in our cell mafia game | ||
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At that point in the thread I was so tired of NU vs. Calix uber hardcore insult driven tunneling that I found myself really disappointed with the direction and tone of the game. In comes Skynx, who correctly identifies that ore salt votes (I know you two will disagree with this assessment) are not only meaningless but they're a waste of time. Other than that, Skynx had indeed been pretty much useless and very whiny. I apreciate that the atmosphere has become a little less emotionally charged. That's what I meant, even if phrased poorly. As I write this, Foreman accuses ExO of cyberbullying *facepalm* | ||
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My vote is still on mahrgell as I find him the most sus, though at this juncture it looks as if the final wagon is gonna be ExO vs. Ticktock. Still feel as if Rels and Skynx have been underwhelming. Didn't like Rels pressure on me in particular, felt a little forced and unnatural. Interested to see what he's slept on | ||
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I'll try to respond to Rels/Calix and give my updated opinion on ExO vs. Ticktock. Gonna filter dive the latter now | ||
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I think I was wrong about TT, I feel as though ExO is the best lynch today, followed by Skynx probably. I am willing to hold off on mahrgell, as I think Rels brought up decent points and explained mahrgell's argument more clearly to me re Foreman vs. Rels inconsistency. On November 03 2016 15:11 ExO_ wrote: I'm tired. I just got home. I don't feel like reading through the read. But I'll tell you my thoughts in a nutshell from the point I left. I jumped on to Calix initially and continued to pressure him(her?) long after I thought she was scum. I do think the way he entered the thread was dumb and likely to inflame me. But his responses afterwards seemed very much from a towny perspective. I continued the pressure to see who would jump on the bandwagon with me in an attempt to press low hanging fruit. I'll look at it tomorrow, but NeverUnlucky/foreman are both going to be the first people I look at. Other people have pointed it out, but I don't like this as an explanation and it seems very shallow. Rels's point regarding the OMGUS nature of ExO's arguments is compelling as well. I remember being very OMGUS towards Rels in our cell mafia game, but the stakes were MUCH higher in that game, hence the desperate play on my part (I was town). There's really no reason from ExO to be this defensive and OMGUS on D1. ExO also claims to trust Skynx but later thinks that if he dies, town should investigate me and Skynx On November 04 2016 09:16 ExO_ wrote: Darthfoley/Skynk have the shortest filters and might be good places to look as well. Going off filter length NU/Calix shouldn't be scum because they are so far and above everyone else. I'd find it hard to be posting that much as scum Don't understand the sudden paranoia/change of heart, especially when Skynx is the only one still pushing the TT train. Regarding my TT case, upon second read through, I really liked his defense of this point On November 04 2016 02:45 Tictock wrote: Responding to Darth, Kus it's really easy for scum to go, "Thats illogical! Contradiction! Scum!" but as we all know town acts illogically and contradict themselves plenty often. Trying to find out what caused that by asking questions is that deeper thinking, not pigeon holeing someone based off one silly thing (see Exo or Foreman's push on Calix for examples there). Hadn't thought about it in that way. I see why it's very easy for mafia to just latch onto logical inconsistency (ironic, given my mahrgell tunnel) and not let it go. Regarding me, I still don't think the Skynx thing held much merit. I think he's probably second lynch today considering his lack of activity and the way he seems to be sort of waffling on TT/ExO now? My mahrgell tunnel was simply lazy; I waited to invest myself in ExO vs. TT after my case, because I wanted fresh eyes when I read it. The only thing I'll say about mahrgell is that I put 0 stock in lots of activity = town lean because I lost to a 30 page filter Shapelog in a newbie mafia game and will never forget it. Fuck that I will probably look through NU/Calix filter at some point; anytime I see a 10 page filter on D1 I get triggered. I hate spam ##Vote:ExO | ||
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On November 05 2016 01:59 Calix wrote: I find it quite odd that you're saying that you have this town-lean on ExO (one of your few town-reads/ leans/ whatever) yet you're not really trying to oppose his lynch or convince us how NU/ TT are mafia. (your NU case still makes zero sense, not a single bit) You just don't seem to care that much at all. ExO flips town, can say, told ya so! Even though he's not really doing much besides quibble. Don't see how this strategy makes sense if they're both scum though | ||
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LoL | ||
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On November 05 2016 03:10 Calix wrote: Why do you think Rels had a 'major part' in ExO's ML? TT was clearly the one driving that while Rels popped in later after ExO was an established wagon. Major part doesn't mean person X started the wagon. I felt like Rels, before he voted on me, was pushing the ExO envelope pretty hard, before he cased me, then went back to ExO for the rest of the day and basically shit on him. Like TT, his conclusion was very narrow: you're either scum or fuck you, which doesn't really leave any room for doubt-- which a few of us cited as the EoD concluded. I started to get cold feet because ExO was spewing at the end, but Rels didn't seem to have those reservations. He's UBER tunneled me in the past as TvT (but it was a 15 man cell mafia game, so the stakes were a lot higher and the circumstances are very different from a 9 man game). Is this reaction usual for his town play? @ anyone who's played with him extensively | ||
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On November 05 2016 02:45 mahrgell wrote: Okay, I just made it back and finished reading up. I see no reason to change my vote. Exo's posts past my case have ust reinforced my impression further. I guess we see him flip and continue from there. I finally want to dive into Skynx/DF and TT. ^.^ Should be doing that before this nights Habs game if family doesn't keep me busy. Otherwise I for sure will have it done before end of the night. At this point I'm actually a bit surprised how I'm suddenly everybodys darling. I guess I want to look i this progression too, as I feel kinda buddied here. Then again... lets flip Exo first... This certainly will provide interesting information. On November 05 2016 03:18 mahrgell wrote: Btw, I'm still finding the relationship progression of players with me very interesting. It seems like I have been read as everything from strongtownlean to certainscum by most players. I feel like I'm always floating between getting buddied and getting shaded. If anyone feels like looking into it... Wtf are these posts man? Can someone explain to me WHY they're reading mahrgell anything more than null? Omg I feel buddied, i'm everyone's darling!!! so spook!!!! I (mahrgell) will look into it! I feel like i'm floating between getting buddied and shaded? Anyone (not mahrgell) want to look into it?! | ||
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On November 04 2016 09:23 mahrgell wrote: My more recent and confident ones: Scum: Exo_ Neut: FM Townlead: Calix, NU, Rels I want to reevaluate TT, Skynx and DF next. DF posted a lot of stuff, and it seemed to not match my image of him and at some point he went completely off when accusing me. But I may be biased on the stuff he writes about me, so I have to reread his filter and I will probably focus on the stuff not concerning me to make my judgement. From first impression I would tend scumlean though.I hope to ind time tmrw for it. Skynx is Neut in my mind so far, mainly because I didn't pay much attention to his posts besides the onne paragraph directed at me. From memory he posted mostly useless stuff early, but later had 2 wot against me and 3 other players. Then his TT case. I will focus on those. (I actually wanted to do that earlier... but somehow kept busy) TT I would townlean from memory. But I want to check the case made against him. If I currently Neut Skynx, while having a scum+scumlean, this would make Skynx by process of elimination a townie and his case must have some substance. Also iirc Exo jumped on it. If it was completely fabricated, this would mean the the entire scumteam went allin here... Then again, Exo jumping on it actually makes TT and Skynx look better. But this is now too much speculation, and I will warm this up once we have a flip. Anyway... I just want to read TT again On November 04 2016 09:43 mahrgell wrote: Thanks @Calix With that I will now finally go to sleep. As time may be rare tomorrow, who do you suggest to look into first out of TT,DF and Skynx? I guess you are valueing Skynx highly, so could you maybe give me a summary how you came to this? And then I would start with one of the other two. Probably DF, as TT seems to be tied to skynx. DF seems to be upset with me though and I don't feel like revenge reading ^.^ I doubt anything useful will come from his. On November 05 2016 02:45 mahrgell wrote: Okay, I just made it back and finished reading up. I see no reason to change my vote. Exo's posts past my case have ust reinforced my impression further. I guess we see him flip and continue from there. I finally want to dive into Skynx/DF and TT. ^.^ Should be doing that before this nights Habs game if family doesn't keep me busy. Otherwise I for sure will have it done before end of the night. At this point I'm actually a bit surprised how I'm suddenly everybodys darling. I guess I want to look i this progression too, as I feel kinda buddied here. Then again... lets flip Exo first... This certainly will provide interesting information. How many times can you say you're gonna filter dive before you do it? Why are you asking other people who you should look into? Why is mahrgell claiming he would be "revenge reading?" He town leans me, so why would looking through my filter be useless? These posts were made 18 hours ago, and 1 hour ago. I DO NOT LIKE | ||
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On November 05 2016 03:51 NeverUnlucky wrote: just wanted to say that whoever is drunk on whiskey after that ml is scum come again? | ||
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On November 05 2016 03:51 Calix wrote: Because now you have to fake re-evaluating your reads?  I agree that mahrgell's post is extremely townie though. He's basically saying "I want to be taken seriously and don't like people using the noob card on me" which is the exact opposite of what scum in his situation would do imo. Yes, I agree. I'm also somewhat between slightly and kind of annoyed that as soon as ExO flipped, almost everyone peaced | ||
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On November 05 2016 08:21 Foreman wrote: God, you guys... Talk. A. Lot. So, Skynx got weird at end of day. NU is looking town as fuck. mahrgell is being mahrgell. TT is apparently looking at the possibility of me being scum (why, exactly?), and the rest of you are giving me a headache. Carry on. Thanks for your summary. Really in depth | ||
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TOWN Calix, NU Ticktock Rels/Foreman Skynx MAFIA I liked points 3 and 4 of mahrgell's post re Skynx a lot: On November 05 2016 23:20 mahrgell wrote: Okay, lets make a tldr of my own post regarding Skynx and why I scumread him: Links/quotes are in the long version above so I summarise here. I only linked those posts not used there. ... 3) His entire alignment towards me is unfounded: he suspects me, accepts my response, suddenly im Toptown, because "he likes my lists". At this time my main contribution was my case on Exo_ Yet he also townreads Exo, says there are no compelling arguments against him. A few minute later he asks for evidence against Exo_, and points out that 3 players, including me, have no reason at all to vote Exo. He may have missed my case, but then what made him toptown me? How can I be toptown because of my good posts, when those posts are directly attacking his other toptown. How can I be toptown when he calls me out for voting without reason? As the EoD happened, he again called Exo for his opinion on Foreman and me. What am I? toptown? scum? This falls back to 1) 4) His stance in the Exo lynch. He was most concerned about pointing out that he was 100% sure that Exo was town. He stated multiple times that he believes that the mislynch of Exo will show us a lot. Yet I fail to see any serious attempt to convince people to jump off the train. He somehow shaped up NU as alternative, but promised "to make a case against him during the night phase". He never tried to really convince anyone to join the NU train. Or does this count as effort? This again looks like what I pointed out in 1) He weakly defended Exo_ on emotional reasons, yet was 100% he was town. He later admitted that there was some reason in the cases against Exo_, his defense consisted only out of this. No reaching out to change it He was more concerned about being right than about saving someone he believed 100% to flip green. In retrospect, Skynx's lame EoD push on NU was... lame. Didn't feel like he put in the effort necessary to try to get the lynch off of someone who he believed to be super town. Also, his subsequent posts about NU seem off to me. On November 05 2016 02:41 Skynx wrote: Yeah I almost forgot, thank you for reminding. ##Unvote ##Vote: NeverUnlucky On November 05 2016 02:43 Skynx wrote: I'm never ever moving away from NU unless kush comes down from the clouds with all his almighty convincing powers and tell me he is town or someone here can defend him to an equal measure. On November 05 2016 02:47 Skynx wrote: I'm only hoping that this is not one of those games where you are just bad town and forced me to tunnel on you again and mafia is just having a freewin cuz now you are objectively the scummiest person here. We woulda lost Haunted Haus if townroles wasn't op cuz of this. On November 05 2016 02:55 Skynx wrote: Disclaimer: Ignoring NU from now on cuz its just not productive. So Skynx "attempts" to move the lynch off of ExO, except not really. He makes some more posts I haven't quoted about NU White-Knighting etc. which indicates that he has a pretty strong scum read on NU. Claims he's never moving off of NU, only to give himself a way out two posts later (you may just be playing a bad town game!) Then makes a big deal about "ignoring" NU because it "isn't productive." Wouldn't you ignore NU because you're kinda-sorta really convinced he's mafia? The description of NU being "unproductive" is not the adjective I would use to describe my scum read. I would be blunt and say i'm ignoring him because he's scum. | ||
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On November 05 2016 01:35 Skynx wrote: Summary Very town: mahg Townlean: Exo, Calix Not read at all: darth Bad but not thoroughly read:Foreman Nullish cuz neither town nor scum but bad: Rels Scum: TT, NU ... I don't like Foreman's over-aggressive tone. He didn't get much going against him but why so aggressive then? He most definitely needs a re-read, I think he's been flying under the radar. On November 05 2016 01:49 Skynx wrote: ok. Retaliation is a town tell because he's getting attacked non-stop for bad reasons. Check vivax and me from Dota mafia, which I know you have been following which is completely the opposite. I dunno who you're accounting to with the over-aggressive tone, Foreman? I'm not scum reading him, I got no material i specified I didn't read him much. On November 05 2016 02:57 Skynx wrote: Exo, whats your opinion on Foreman and Magh very quick? I've highlighted all the relevant posts he's made about Foreman leading up to the vote. highlighted: (Foreman) most definitely needs a re-read, I think he's been flying under the radar I think it's really weird how he talks about Foreman in such a passive way, while also seeming to think he's the most dangerous player to forget about. He calls Foreman bad (at the game? bad = mafia?) and says he really wants to reread him. Never has. Then he randomly asks ExO about mahrgell and Foreman as he's walking to the gallows? Why these two? Why then? It makes little sense and comes out of left field. He claims to "not like his tone" and implies a potential mafia lean, then explicitly says he isn't reading Foreman as mafia even though Foreman hasn't changed his tone etc. Calls him a dark horse who we need to be wary of, then doesn't do what he says he would and reread his filter. Please look at Foreman's filter re Skynx. There's barely anything. I know it may be early to play association but the lack of comms between them since Foreman attacked Skynx's opening (which isn't that much pressure) is troubling, especially coupled with Skynx's weird progression of Foreman. On November 05 2016 08:21 Foreman wrote: God, you guys... Talk. A. Lot. So, Skynx got weird at end of day. NU is looking town as fuck. mahrgell is being mahrgell. TT is apparently looking at the possibility of me being scum (why, exactly?), and the rest of you are giving me a headache. Carry on. That's it. I know Foreman | ||
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EBWOP: I know Foreman has been skimp in general, but I find his discussion of Skynx to be particularly constrained | ||
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Skynx is my primary scum read followed by Foreman/Rels. I have a town vibe on Ticktock but i'm not particularly sure why. I think Calix is on the right track regarding the EoD vote. I think it's pretty likely that either Rels or Foreman are mafia | ||
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On November 06 2016 01:19 Calix wrote: 1. I don't see a contradiction in those two lines that you quoted. Isn't he saying "I don't see any posts that would make me think anyone is lock scum. Therefore Foreman thinking that Calix is lock scum, especially on D1, is a bit scummy to me." That's how I read them anyway. 2. A better point. I'll await darthfoley's explanation here. Point #1 isn't a contradiction. The wording was a little awkward but all I meant was what Calix interpreted. From my POV 2. I joined the wagon for a couple reasons. My mahrgell wagon wasn't going anywhere so I had to reassess why secondary/tertiary scum reads. As I mentioned, I liked lots of your defense and other people's points re you so I wasn't comfortable lynching you. I made my post so there wouldn't be misconceptions as to why I was joining. Public record is good. I don't really get the back pocket thing; there was never any viable secondary lynch train for almost all of D1, so the hedging argument doesn't hold water. I think the closest it ever was, was like 4-2 ExO vs. you? That's off the top of my head considering there's no vote thread. I think your point would be more valid had there been a spirited, close vote for most of day one, before breaking ExO's way a few hours before the EoD, but that's not really how it happened. | ||
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On November 06 2016 08:56 Tictock wrote: I actually don't like Darth's posts at all. It falls right in line with how I think scum would play if gell was killed to implicate Skynx. Idk tbh I'm starting to feel like this game is pretty solved from my POV, I just need to make sure I can backup my TR of Rels a little better, but my PoE is down to Skynx/Darth/Foreman. If skynx is scum his play has been just shit all game. I'd like you to expand on what parts of my posts you don't like. My thoughts on the mahrgell kill are that he was spewing town and had been universally townread (his last posts got me off of him). I made the point earlier that I thought mafia would try to buddy the first timer, and I think mahrgell picked up on that. I'm also town because I clicked through your 40 spoilers | ||
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On November 06 2016 11:25 Tictock wrote: Someone remind me to tinfoil the shit out of a NU/Calix scumteam if we get much further into this without a mafia lynch. This is also my tinfoil worry lol | ||
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On November 06 2016 21:45 NeverUnlucky wrote: Ah, shit. Forgot to add the context. Those are Rels' posts / posts about Rels that are reasons to town-read him. If you don't understand why I included one of the quotes, ask away. Hats off to whoever is courageous enough to read our filters and write a decent case afterwards Yesterday I said I was going to re-read DF, but I'm too lazy and a bit restrained on time to do so. If TT could explain why he thinks his posts are mafia, it would be lovely. That's why I lost to Shapelog last newbie game TT. Hopefully Rels and Skynx and Foreman will exist today | ||
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On November 07 2016 00:54 NeverUnlucky wrote: wait... Why the fuck did Foreman as most town? Do you still TR him? Why did you have Skynx as town? Why would you explain your null read on Rels (who hadn't posted) but not your other reads? I had Foreman as most town because it was early game and I liked his tone and attitude for town. If you found that post, you surely could've found this post of me explaining exactly what you're asking me now. + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2016 04:01 darthfoley wrote: So the majority of my read on you is based off of your interactions with mahrgell. Although nothing you've done has screamed uber town, small things like you not really giving a shit about how people view your playstyle leads me to believe that you're playing your own style and not trying to conform to "please" other towns. Basically the antithesis of buddying. I liked this post specifically This is a bit of a segue, but mahrgell says a townie sees what I see. So if I feel myself completely unable to follow the line of thought of a player, this is a scumlean for me So naturally, you'd think he would scum read Rels, after all... and eventually, in his last large post, claims that he views Rels neutrally. Which doesn't make sense considering his prescribed stance from earlier. This scum read of mine of mahrgell helps me consider you to be town. Why'd you change your vote off of mahrgell to Skynx? He seemed like he was aware of potential buddying and I also thought his questioning of mahrgell, who at the time was my most scummy, was good. Putting Skynx town on my list was pretty shallow considering the only reason I had him there was because he agreed with me on Ticktock. I hadn't realized at that point the power of distancing in a 9 man game so even if TT was mafia I shouldn't have read Skynx as such town. He was my fourth most town on that list as town lean so it wasn't like I was gung-ho about it. Not sure why I talked about Rels tbh, but you're mischaracterizing my play if you say I hadn't explained my Foreman read. I even explained it TO HIM in the thread. | ||
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Can those voting Foreman explain why you're all Foreman > Skynx in this situation? The case on Skynx is much stronger | ||
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On November 07 2016 01:28 darthfoley wrote: I had Foreman as most town because it was early game and I liked his tone and attitude for town. If you found that post, you surely could've found this post of me explaining exactly what you're asking me now. + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2016 04:01 darthfoley wrote: So the majority of my read on you is based off of your interactions with mahrgell. Although nothing you've done has screamed uber town, small things like you not really giving a shit about how people view your playstyle leads me to believe that you're playing your own style and not trying to conform to "please" other towns. Basically the antithesis of buddying. I liked this post specifically This is a bit of a segue, but mahrgell says a townie sees what I see. So if I feel myself completely unable to follow the line of thought of a player, this is a scumlean for me So naturally, you'd think he would scum read Rels, after all... and eventually, in his last large post, claims that he views Rels neutrally. Which doesn't make sense considering his prescribed stance from earlier. This scum read of mine of mahrgell helps me consider you to be town. Why'd you change your vote off of mahrgell to Skynx? He seemed like he was aware of potential buddying and I also thought his questioning of mahrgell, who at the time was my most scummy, was good. Putting Skynx town on my list was pretty shallow considering the only reason I had him there was because he agreed with me on Ticktock. I hadn't realized at that point the power of distancing in a 9 man game so even if TT was mafia I shouldn't have read Skynx as such town. He was my fourth most town on that list as town lean so it wasn't like I was gung-ho about it. Not sure why I talked about Rels tbh, but you're mischaracterizing my play if you say I hadn't explained my Foreman read. I even explained it TO HIM in the thread. EBWOP: I shouldn't have read Skynx as such* | ||
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On November 07 2016 01:32 Calix wrote: I'm basically voting him over Skynx because that was the one read that NU/ TT and myself could agree on. TT still seems to have some doubts with regards to Skynx due to NK WIFOM/ doubts over wherever scum!Skynx would be so blatant/ not trusting you, etc. Don't you think that Skynx/ Foreman is the scum team though? I think it's Foreman and Skynx/ Rels although given the sheer volume of posts against Skynx, looks like a shoe-in. Yea, I believe Skynx/Foreman is the most likely duo and I believe any potential blue check type role would be advised to check one of them who isn't lynched. Skynx/Rels we've discussed would make less sense, I believe? Rels/Foreman? Maybe. Also, can you and/or NU briefly explain or point me to a post regarding why you're so confident in TT being town? I understand you have this three person town circle going on, but why TT? | ||
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my current town play relies on somewhat sheeping my town reads cuz I'm not all that good still. Just backfires when I'm TR the wrong people. Just FYI mahrgell after your posts EoD I would've never cased you again, so well done!I appreciate the no tunneling me from Rels :p | ||
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