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On September 10 2016 01:23 NeverUnlucky wrote:
Also, fuba tried throwing shade on me previously.
Calix, what conclusion do you make of your last post? What is yo' new stance on Vivax?
Pretty obvious that I suspect him more after those reads.
Referring to fuba? Well he gets points for talking about someone who has barely been discussed before. However I don't find his case to be a compelling one. It's just a generic "this particular player is coasting" call-out read but he hasn't said anything scum-motivated so I would not be inclined to vote fuba just for that.
I really dislike the "not a surefire way of telling scum but enough for the usually shitty D1 lynch" line.
Also I think he butchered the fuba quote he was talking about in the last part of his post because it doesn't make much sense to me.
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On September 10 2016 01:27 Vivax wrote:
What's the point of all this Cali, you think I should just talk about people everyone else is talking about anyway? No thankserino. I look for scum where I want, it has always been this way.
The most interesting thing that stuck out to me so far is probs that TW didn't call you out for doing association based reads like he did with me last game. Maybe he did, need to dive. Your argument is that TW, TT, Grack all interacted with each other in a way that suggests they're a team if I'm not mistaken. Next step would be to see if TW jumps on that cause I lynched him with a similar argument last game.
I'm also a person who tends to connect dots to catch mafia at some point, sadly with excessive fantasy sometimes, but when scum flips it can be surprisingly effective. Before... Meh. It feels great to pursue that line of thinking but it can backfire.
Uh yes? People generally have opinions on popular topics of discussion, especially when suspects are being discussed. Why would you not want to give yours? Even if you don't think you have anything new to add, saying something like "I agree with X" is still better than nothing.
What game are you referring to, Hype Mafia?
So associations/ narratives?
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Got to pop out for a bit. Don't miss me too much while I'm out 
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On September 10 2016 01:38 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 01:34 Calix wrote:
Uh yes? People generally have opinions on popular topics of discussion, especially when suspects are being discussed. Why would you not want to give yours? Even if you don't think you have anything new to add, saying something like "I agree with X" is still better than nothing. What is your take on the Vivax - Superbia showdown hen? Please tell me you aren't going to go read other games to meta-read someone/understand someone's behavior... duh
I prefer to have the person I'm talking to answer my posts, not a spokesperson.
I don't consider it a 'showdown' actually, just two people being jumpy around each other. Vivax analysed some of Superbia's posts, Superbia responded and Vivax repeated the points when stating his scum-read on Superbia. Also Superbia accused Vivax of OMGUS which seemed out of nowhere, but I don't remember Superbia's previous scum-read on Vivax. Granted, I only skim-read it so this opinion is shit, but nothing Vivax pointed out is that scummy (seemed more theoretical, like when he was saying "Superbia could be trying to make Calix scum-read NU", so stuff like that is too...abstract (for lack of a better word) to appeal to me)
I didn't see anything that only scum would do from either of them. I might reread that later and revise my 'thoughts' but don't hold your breath.
lmao. This game is active/ spammy enough for me. Hell no am I going to look at this thread and decide "ah yes I shall spend time reading another game". I haven't properly looked through any 'filters' yet if I am honest.
I'd rather try and motivate myself to do that before EOD and see if I can find something. That whole 'finding shit that only scum would say' is why I'm not full-on scum-reading Vivax, by the way, because while scum COULD play like him, I don't recall him doing anything that only scum would do. Don't know if that makes much sense but that's where my thoughts are atm with him.
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On September 10 2016 03:10 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 02:32 Calix wrote:I prefer to have the person I'm talking to answer my posts, not a spokesperson. A spokesperson, eh? I wasn't speaking on Vivax's behalf, the comments I made were my own. Cut off being cold n' oblivious to me. With all the inferences you've made so far, you're no better than the pussy-footing Cryptonic, SJ, and DW. Be direct or GTFO. Show nested quote +I'd rather try and motivate myself to do that before EOD and see if I can find something. That whole 'finding shit that only scum would say' is why I'm not full-on scum-reading Vivax, by the way, because while scum COULD play like him, I don't recall him doing anything that only scum would do. Don't know if that makes much sense but that's where my thoughts are atm with him. He is my strongest town-read, so, yes, you will need to filter his posts and make a case on him for me to have a paradigm shift.
No.
"you're no better than the pussy-footing Cryptonic, SJ, and DW" - I laugh at this.
What makes you town-read him so strongly? If you don't want to explain yourself then just ignore this post and I'll take the hint.
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So NU's sensationalist post about fuba was enough for me to look through two filters. This level of productivity will not stand.
I'm back to thinking Vivax could be town again. I should probably take notes so that I stop freaking out every time Vivax does something possibly vaguely scummy but nah.
And now that I'm not so skeptical of Vivax's intentions, I'm actually starting to see the case against fuba. He rarely gives his own views, preferring to use other people to push them forward (lots of "I agree with this" or "this" kind of posts) which not only shows that he lacks initiative but it's a way of evading accountability for pushing certain positions. If a position backfires, it puts him in a place to attack the person who initially proposed the idea.
He is self-centred (saying things like "I disagree with this being scummy because it can apply to me") which is self-serving because it shows that he is paying attention to how his actions could be perceived by others and that he's trying to not associate the things he does with scum.
There is this post where he sets himself up for making crappy posts for...most of the game.
On September 09 2016 11:46 fuba wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2016 11:40 NeverUnlucky wrote:On September 09 2016 11:33 fuba wrote:On September 09 2016 09:26 Tumblewood wrote:
fuba also seems pretty cool While I appreciate it, it always makes me uncomfortable when people town read me, especially D1 XD C) Why did you specify "especially D1"? C) I have no idea what to do D1. It tends to get me in hot water early. Really, I'm not all that great until a few days have passed. Great at hyper-analyzing everything everyone's said at a later date, though.
Also I was going to quote the posts where he says "oh I disagree because I do X thing" but my internet decided to turn into a snail halfway through with quoting so post numbers are 242, 245, 246 (pg 13?)
Anyway this is enough for me to move away from TT at the very least. Even though I can't say I town-read TT, fuba's filter is more problematic. He had no problems voting for him (as Vivax noted earlier) and bandwagoning a scum mate on Day 1 seems like a dumb strategy for scum to take, so I doubt TT/ fuba are a scum duo.
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On September 10 2016 04:36 Holyflare wrote:Let me ask you Calix, what if he does the same in every game? Does the post become not scummy and not: Show nested quote +There is this post where he sets himself up for making crappy posts for...most of the game.
If you're claiming that he says that every game then it becomes NAI for him.
On September 10 2016 04:40 NeverUnlucky wrote:
What was sensationalist about meh post?
Which filters did you look into? Vivax and Fuba?
Why do you now think Vivax may be town? It looks self-serving that you state that you now town-read Vivax and scum-read Fuba in the same post. Especially since you are following my vote and these two reads are ones I share.
Why do you say "I can't say I town-read TT" rather than saying you sr/nr him? The wording is bizarre to say the least...
Back to null-reading Calix.
1. You really have to ask? You claimed that fuba 'scum slipped' and used the fail logic of 'conditionals are really scummy guise' (which you already know I disagree with)
2. Vivax and Fuba, yeah.
3. Because I reread his posts and realised that the things I was individually suspecting him for didn't hold up when looking at the bigger picture of how he was playing.
4. Because I can't say I town-read TT? Duh. Someone else being scummy doesn't invalidate the original reason that I scum-read TT. (which still hasn't been addressed iirc) What are you even expecting to get out of asking that?
5. Good. I'd rather you fuck off.
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On September 10 2016 05:03 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 04:50 Calix wrote:
If you're claiming that he says that every game then it becomes NAI for him. Backing off from your read. Show nested quote +1. You really have to ask? You claimed that fuba 'scum slipped' and used the fail logic of 'conditionals are really scummy guise' (which you already know I disagree with) Uh, I said that the addition of 'when' to a conditional was scummy. Conditionals themselves are not. By adding 'when', he implied that he knew that TW was going to flip town. That's the slip. x Show nested quote +3. Because I reread his posts and realised that the things I was individually suspecting him for didn't hold up when looking at the bigger picture of how he was playing. You have to admit that the timing is odd. Show nested quote +4. Because I can't say I town-read TT? Duh. Someone else being scummy doesn't invalidate the original reason that I scum-read TT. (which still hasn't been addressed iirc) What are you even expecting to get out of asking that? Why not just say you sr TT? It looks like there's a barrier between what you say and what you think, alike scums. You knew exactly what you were getting into by /signing into this game. Of course I was going to annoy you, I am not ever giving you another free pass. I'm not fucking off, deal with it.
1. I'm not 'backing off my read' you moron. If someone does X thing every game, it means it's NAI. Nowhere did I say or imply that I was reconsidering my fuba scum-read because I'm not.
2. Point.
3. No it isn't. See below.
4. Because scum-reading TT and fuba doesn't make sense as I don't think both of them are on a scum team. Therefore one of them has to be town. But I don't actually have anything from TT's posts to town-read him. This isn't hard to comprehend.
5. So you admit that you're specifically targeting me more than you would anyone else...because of one game where you deliberately chose not to read any of my posts and ended up losing the game for town. Holy shit.
The fact that you feel entitled to do that just because of a fuck-up that YOU made in another game is unbelievable.
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On September 10 2016 05:18 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 01:21 Holyflare wrote:
Fuba is too self aware at being crappy for me to call him mafia. ^ this is still where I stand at fuba, if he doesn't start to contribute more in the allotted timeframe that he has given himself then I will be after him or you will be or whatever today is TT or Grackalackin depending on what TT says which I wager will be 0-5 posts complaining about me and saying something is crap and not much game playing
Just to clarify, are you claiming that self-awareness in general is a town tell or that fuba's meta is to be self-aware as town or something else?
If it's the first point, why do you consider it a town trait?
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Have to pop out for a good part of the day so this is a check-in post as I have only skimmed the last six or so pages. Have a few questions:
How is fuba obvious town? I see a bunch of people going "never lynching him" and the like but I didn't see anything that went into more detail on how this is the case. I don't like his excessive focus on NU's 'scum slip' re: lynchbait and I don't understand why you wouldn't vote for NU earlier (which would start a wagon on a player that a lot of people town-read) rather than keep the vote on the TT wagon. My vote is going nowhere unless I see an actual decent case for town!fuba and simply saying "meta" with no explanation is not going to cut it.
Why do Damdred and Holyflare have votes on them? The former seems like it would be a rushed train since he hasn't been talked about much. I get the whole "lurking in the background and not saying much" idea but that's generic and doesn't relate back to how he's specifically scum and not just Generic AFK Player #308550. If he's town, we get nothing from his lynch and the lack of discussion around him means he's a poor train even if scum. For the purpose of a D1 lynch, he's not a good option.
I would need to reread the chat properly to understand where Holyflare's voters are coming from. What I remember was him using points against TT that also applied to fuba (but with no explanation for how fuba is town??) and some of the voters think his cases suck compared to his town game. (meta!) If I missed anything incriminating then I'd like to hear it.
I think Grack looks slightly better from his HF/ Grack arguments.
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Oh, also about the votes:
TT's train doesn't have any solid town-reads on it and that train has been poorly-contested for most of the day; it's been the leading wagon ever since HF scum-read him for the setup spec post. I don't like the odds of a good lynch down that route anymore.
I don't trust TW so this makes me skeptical of a HF train. I notice that quite a few people seem to scum-read him but his train has never taken off. If people could chip in with their thoughts on that, it would be good.
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On September 10 2016 23:27 Holyflare wrote:
I mean who says they've skimmed and haven't read properly and asks why there's votes on me but then in the same post explains why there's two people voting me????????????
ALSO who decides to note vote someone based on good evidence just because they semi don't read the 3!!!!! out of 13 people on the wagon????
Not to mention I'm pretty sure she town read me and agreed with my points.
Also first 1/3 of filter is arguments with her town read NU.
Rest of it is just lots of giving out free wishy washy town reads and flip flopping on vivax, I think there's one real case but that's on town Fuba.
I was asking for a case for why they thought you were scum because things like "his cases aren't as good as they are when town" aren't something I can give an opinion on because I don't know your meta.
I've also explained my thought process in regards to TT which is clearly shown in my filter. I initially scum-read him, then had doubts about his static train and the people voting him and then I switched my vote after reading fuba's filter.
That's also a horrible characterisation of my filter. I had scum-read Grack/ TT/ TW together earlier, then revised that when I read fuba's filter and my town-reads aren't 'wishy-washy' whatsoever. I stated who they were and why and that was that.
You haven't explained how fuba is town as of yet. In fact, NOBODY has. Why is everyone just ignoring him?
Also, she slipped when she talked about setup spec, saying that town had PRs. Someone who rolled town would know which town roles are in the game. That's the first thing they would check.
Additionally, her LW talk seemed coming from a mafia trying to appear like he's helping town perspective. It in no way helped town. If anything, her proposition would have given mafia more freedom to frame those LWs.
btw, I will not post a LW. Any LW attached to my death is a framed one.
There's also the meta points that make her 100% mafia in my eyes. I will list them later if need be.
@Calix, they're not the shitty meta-reads you usually get scum-read for i.e. being much less active than usual. They're actual things you've only said as scum and will only say as scum.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say town had PRs to begin with. I already explained what I meant there...?
You have no meta points on me. It's impossible for you to have any because you've only read ONE scum game of mine from FIVE MONTHS AGO. One game =/= meta.
Again, you have no idea what my scum meta is. You're too focused on 'scum slips' which aren't scummy so I expect anything I say will be ignored by you. Honestly.
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On September 11 2016 00:44 Tumblewood wrote:
but if we get to 30 minutes before EoD and town has still not seen the light I will consolidate because he's not a bad wagon if you can get past the people on it. and then if he flips green we vote Hf. simple.
I don't agree with lining up HF as a lynch for tomorrow which is what it looks like you're doing here. If you think HF could be scum pushing a bad wagon, just vote him now instead of doing this? Like what is your thought process here exactly?
Can you please explain how you town-read fuba? I really do not see it.
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On September 11 2016 00:45 NeverUnlucky wrote:
stfu scum, no one cares what you think.
You can't counter my arguments because you know I'm right so you resort to the "lol scum ignoring you" response.
Quality vote, 10/10
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Oh wait, just checked and saw TW is already voting HF. My bad.
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On September 11 2016 00:50 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 00:30 NeverUnlucky wrote:On September 11 2016 00:27 Grackaroni wrote:On September 11 2016 00:23 NeverUnlucky wrote:On September 11 2016 00:20 Grackaroni wrote:
Just to be clear, HF:
Am I the lynch plan tomorrow if TT flips town, mafia, or both? If he flips both, you're the lynch plan, yes. Calix should be the lynch today or tomorrow. No question here. lol not you silly. And by the both I mean to ask whether I should be the lynch regardless of what TT flips. Yes, I know. What is your reads list like? I still haven't actually read a bunch of stuff so bear with me. Vivax is town for the rest of the game because he made this post after I wasn't contributing anything but pissing Calix off. There actually is a noticeably difference between my play this game and my normal scum game, so he actually did go through the effort to read through games to compare. Plus I was being discussed as a lynch possibility at the time. Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 06:45 Vivax wrote:
Going to be ballsy and call town on Grack btw. I dived his scum game a short while back and it's nothing like him. He pretends to be helpful there. Here he's openly defiant, jokes, and even posts pictures.
HF is invited to fight me over this. Fuba has a pretty weak scum game and I don't think it looks like this. Thus he is town. Calix seems too abrasive to be scum and had a strong opening. If it turns out you have really good points that could change. You had a townie opening. I like Tumblewood because he's on the same wave length as me, and also he's putting himself at the risk of the wrath of Holyflare. If Holyflare is town I don't think scum TW would want to put himself in HF's cross hairs because TW's scum game can be pretty shaky. I think HF has a good chance of being scum as outlined earlier. The rest are null. Perhaps Palmar is a bit below null for how useless he has been while not yet attracting any votes. I'm also playing around with a bit of a crazy theory of HF and TT as a scum team. I don't know how plausible that is but I realized that if HF was on a scum team with TT that could have caused him to view TT's posts through a lens that makes them look scummier than they actually were. Better stuff will probably come around 3 hours from now.
If someone could just take five fucking seconds to EXPLAIN HOW FUBA IS TOWN USING THIS GAME, for the love of God.
I don't think your theory holds water. Any scum leading the charge on a scum mate D1 basically throws themselves into the spotlight and would have to justify why the scum haven't NKed them from a very early stage. Also means that scum!HF would look really suspicious if he lynched correctly D1 and survived until LYLO. So my take is that if HF is scum then TT is almost certainly town.
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On September 11 2016 00:59 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +I didn't say town had PRs to begin with. I already explained what I meant there...?
You have no meta points on me. It's impossible for you to have any because you've only read ONE scum game of mine from FIVE MONTHS AGO. One game =/= meta.
Again, you have no idea what my scum meta is. You're too focused on 'scum slips' which aren't scummy so I expect anything I say will be ignored by you. Honestly. Yes, you said town had PRs. You suggested that a sheriff-vig would leave in his LW who he checked, thus claiming town has PRs. Yes, I have meta points on you. I read TWO scum games of yours, plus I was in your last scum game. That's 3 games, scum.
Someone lynched on Day 1 gets their LW published at the end of Night 1 which is AFTER they turn into a TPR. Not only is your argument false, it's not even a fucking slip.
Show me these 'meta points' and I'll show you how you're wrong.
You mean that last scum game which you're tunneling me for this game because you want revenge?
It's incredibly obvious that's what you're doing, dude. If this is how you're going to be from now on, I'm just not going to play anymore with you. It's either "CALIX IS THE BEST" or "CALIX IS 100% SCUM" with no in-between. Can't just treat me like a normal player, can you?
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Wow holy shit, some actual fucking explanations. I need to sit down for a minute.
Let me go reread his filter in light of this and I'll get back to you lot.
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Meh, I remain unconvinced by the given explanations but since everyone seems to be meta-reading fuba as town and all I'm doing by pushing this is pissing everyone else off, I guess I will just have to leave it for now.
One question though to Holyflare. You said in this post that you town-read fuba because he is self-aware about playing like shit...
On September 11 2016 01:10 Holyflare wrote:
I'll tell you why fuba is town so you stop bitching about it and actually do something more useful.
Fuba's point about knowing he plays shit day 1 is self awareness to the max and actually seemed quite honest in that regard. You say it could be mafia making excuses but I didn't think so in the beginning of the game and his play has countered his own meta because he's actually made points about NU.
But when I initially posted the case, one of your responses was to ask me how I would react if I was told that fuba made self-aware comments about his shitty play every game...
On September 10 2016 04:36 Holyflare wrote:Let me ask you Calix, what if he does the same in every game? Does the post become not scummy and not: Show nested quote +There is this post where he sets himself up for making crappy posts for...most of the game.
So Holyflare, where exactly do you stand here?
If fuba makes that comment every game, why are you town-reading him for it?
If fuba doesn't make that comment every game, why did you ask that question in the first place?
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On September 11 2016 01:30 Holyflare wrote:
I never said he says that every game it was just to see how you'd react if he plays the same every game (ignoring the post).
I don't even know how fuba plays and I don't really care. That switch from not playing day 1 to inquisitive person that thinks they found a slip and makes posts about it is very hard for mafia to fake.
Uh, you DID say that. You just phrased it as a question which implies that fuba makes that kind of comment every game and never said otherwise until now.
How is it a reaction test? The answer is obvious because a behaviour repeated by a player every game means that they do the behaviour regardless of alignment, thus said behaviour is NAI for them. With this in mind, what were you hoping to get out of that?
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EPT
