Newbie Student Mafia XXIII - Page 41

Rels

France13467 Posts

September 27 2016 09:03 GMT

#801

Pretty weird kill. It indicates a medic dodge, but they were more attractive targets for medic dodgin IMO => Dan and ptmc. I think it indicates at least one TL vet is scum.

Rels

France13467 Posts

September 27 2016 09:04 GMT

#802

WIFOM though so not the basis of any read but I'll keep it in mind

Rels

France13467 Posts

September 27 2016 09:09 GMT

#803

On September 27 2016 09:22 DoYouHas wrote:
Response to Rels:

#1. I actually had 3 people I thought were likely scum D1. I also gave 4 town reads. I can't really respond to you saying everyone one of my reads is scummy since I don't know what that means.

I currently have no scum reads. I think I was wrong on Jealous and I'm not going to just jump to another person until I reassess the game. This just is what it is. I don't think it is scummy to realize a flaw in your own case, in fact I think it shows that I wasn't just trying to attack Jealous, I genuinely thought he was scum.

For claiming to know my meta you have a strange way of repeating history. In the exact game you reference you come after me for having low volume, for not liking the way I voted, and for not having scum reads, all around D1 and N1. Sound familiar? The case that caught HtS came AFTER a reassessment of the game and AFTER being attacked by yourself and others for not having scumreads. You paint me as a mover and shaker that gets shit done but forget that I really wasn't until I gained a mound of town cred for my role in getting HtS lynched. It is eerie how similar this early game dynamic between us is.

#2. "DYH baited a conversation" sounds so devious. As if I was luring Stutters into some big mistake. Which was what exactly? Talking to me? Talking about ptmc? I phrased it the way I did because why the hell not. I don't have a plan or a scheme or a reason outside of wanting to hear what he thought of ptmc and doing so before disagreeing with him about SEQ. Which is exactly what happened. I don't know where you are getting, "Stutters didn't take the bait". He gave me 2 solid thoughts on ptmc. Just because they were brief and my thoughts on SEQ weren't doesn't change that.

#3. Me in respect to the Luna lynch is the only decent point you make here. I didn't think providing a town read on Stutters without a reason made him scum. After all, I had done the exact same thing and everyone focusing on Luna completely ignored it. I was actually thinking he was town, even after the power role crap even though it was anti-town. It was far from a confident read, but that was the way I was leaning. It wasn't until he had shut down for a goodly length of time that I started accepting him as a good lynch target. With him actually flipping scum my hesitancy in pursuing him and voting him doesn't look good, fair enough.

However, here is where your argument is just bad. I did not like the play of Dane and Jealous, I thought their play was scummy. Their suspicions happened to be on Luna. I thought Luna's play was anti-town and it was his lack of activity that pushed him into scummy territory. I wasn't putting forth my guess for the complete scum team, I was putting forth the people who looked scummy enough to me that I would want to lynch them, without drawing on pre-flip association.
-

Every way you characterize me as scum is undercut by something else you don't like.

I don't want to analyse Luna but I engage Jealous on the topic. I 'defend' Luna by putting Dane and Jealous in my lynch list, but do nothing to move the lynch. I 'bus' Luna but in no way set myself up to look good on the flip.

I suppose I could be scum even with all of that from your perspective, but I would be the most half-measure, lackluster scum ever, failing to take advantage of anything. I would really hope you would realize I'm better than that.

Lastly, this isn't my scum meta. As scum I lurk, I position myself to look good the vast majority of the time, and I'm addicted to being right.

The thing about the situation now being more similar to this other game makes me think I could be wrong. I'm expecting a big impact soon then. I'm also gonna check your meta assertion.

What do you think of Xatalos ?

Rels

France13467 Posts

September 27 2016 09:10 GMT

#804

On September 27 2016 15:37 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Effective immediately, SoulEaterQUEEN has been replaced by Tictock.

Nice. Now that his inactivity is explained I can see him being town.

Tictock

United States6051 Posts

September 27 2016 11:53 GMT

#805

Ok almost done with other stuff and I'll sink a couple hours into reading.

Tempted to start out by giving ptmc a quick and dirty townread for that little series of posts on pg 40 though.

Jealous

10108 Posts

September 27 2016 12:25 GMT

#806

Welcome, Tictock!

Xatalos

Finland9675 Posts

September 27 2016 14:31 GMT

#807

On September 27 2016 17:15 ptmc wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 27 2016 01:33 Xatalos wrote:

On September 26 2016 23:47 ptmc wrote:
I went through the Lunatic trainwreck again and tried to objectively sum up what happend chronologically, open for "unbiased" read:

+ Show Spoiler +

Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad
Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie"
Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read
Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post
Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content
ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read
Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons"
Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1
Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though
This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new
DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos
Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention"
Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH
Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous)
DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later"
Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels"
Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy"
DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic
Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read.
Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic
Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate
Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved
DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read
Rels agrees
Xatalos reacts with

On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote:
I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see.

Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated.
Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part
Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic
Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic
Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read
ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim
Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1
Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd"
Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting
ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH
Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread
After a short discussion, where I give my reasons why I think a push on Lunatic is a good thing,
Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it
Lunatic calls me out because ptmc "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue
Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own"
DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ
Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post
DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum
Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum
DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it
Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people
Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first
SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him.
Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic.

SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic

Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters
Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today"
Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic
Stutters again asks about SEQ
Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum
Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case
Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic
Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway

This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw.

Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him
Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1)
Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch
Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate
Lunatic fluffs some more
Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic
Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr
Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town
Xatalos questions this logic
Rels votes Lunatic
Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him
Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched
DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch
DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum
Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH
Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well
DYH votes Lunatic

On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote:
##Vote: Luna

Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum.

Next post, scott votes Lunatic

On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote:
Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him.

Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott
DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post
Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic
Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever)
Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott
Superbia doesn't like his two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna
A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo)
ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic
Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work

And my comments for it, marked in red stuff i think is scummy, in green things i think is towny (obviously in the light of the successful lynch) with some comments centered where i needed to say some more

+ Show Spoiler +

Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad
Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie"
Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read
Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post

this is maybe not red, but at least weird

Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content
ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read
Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons"
Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1
Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though
This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new
DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos
Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention"
Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH
Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous)

again, at least weird, since it had obviously already sparked discussion

DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later"
Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels"
Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy"
DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic
Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read.
Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic

I guess this is Lunatics blue role claim on stutters working out as intended?

Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate
Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved
DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read
Rels agrees
Xatalos reacts with

On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote:
I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see.

Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated.
Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part
Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic
Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic
Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read
ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim
Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1
Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd"
Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting
ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH
Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread
After a short discussion, where ptmc gives his reasons why he thinks a push on Lunatic is a good thing,
Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it
Lunatic calls ptmc out because he "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue
Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own"
DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ
Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post
DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum
Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum
DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it

Mafia feeling out the waters if it is bussing time?

Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people
Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first
SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him.
Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic.

SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic

Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters
Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today"

This looks so much like bussing, especially with him ignoring those posts previously

Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic
Stutters again asks about SEQ

still no word on lunatic except the earlier "no comment"

Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum
Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case
Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic
Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway

This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw.

Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him
Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1)
Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch
Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate

Lunatic fluffs some more
Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic
Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr
Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town
Xatalos questions this logic
Rels votes Lunatic
Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him
Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched
DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch
DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum
Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH
Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well
DYH votes Lunatic

i will not give green "points" from here on for voting lunatic, since the train has reached critical mass already

Next post, scott votes Lunatic

Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott
DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post
Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic
Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever)
Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott
Superbia doesn't like scotts two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna
A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo)
ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic
Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work

Take home message says scott had access to very bad posts by Lunatic way before he goes afk, but choses to ignore them. Only when the train has become unstoppable for mafia he "revisits" them and now they are strong enough to lynch for.

Other reads from the Lunaticman-Lynch:
solid town:
DanelerH
Calix

town lean:
Jealous
Rels
SEQ
superbia (for actually noticing scott)

inconsistent:
Xatalos
Skynx

scum leans (lynch all day err'day)
Scott, stutters, dyh

That's a nice list of the events. I think it's pretty accurate. Didn't at least see anything glaringly wrong. Well, not really sure why me being against discussing blue roles is in red there, but *shrug*, I can live with that.

Hm. Not entirely sure why Skynx is on the same level as me based on that list?

I guess it's fair to say that DanelerH looks quite a bit better than before and scott/DYH worse. Hm, I agree that Stutters' reactions to Lunatic are oddly distant, but wouldn't put him on the same level especially considering Lunatic's posts about Stutters.

It just strikes me as odd that you "fell" for Lunatics "he's a blue role, lets stop talking about it" defense.
You think skynx should be more towny or more scummy?
And if we disregard Lunatics post on Stutters, since it is basically pure WIFOM?

The correct way would have been to pressure him for his other reads and also why he townread Stutters on meta, not to ask why Stutters was a blue.... Considering the worst scenario where he was town and Stutters actually a blue role. But in hindsight, it's easy to say that he was just scum and it didn't matter either way... They didn't even kill Stutters.

Superbia kill was unexpected, especially since he was getting heat during the night. Maybe he WIFOMed himself to death? lol

Skynx felt like he should have been less towny on that list since I think he only had one (barely) "green action" and many reds, while I had pretty much an equal amount of both (and I don't even agree it was anti-town to stop blue discussion there - I'd do it again with the same information as I had back then).

Stutters doesn't look good if we disregard Lunatic filter, but because Lunatic treated him like an obvtown (much more indicative of him actually being town than a teammate) he'a quite more likely town. There's no sense in disregarding Lunatic anyway.

In any case, there are other people who look worse. Next post will be soon(TM) once I'm home.

Tictock

United States6051 Posts

September 27 2016 15:01 GMT

#808

Ok I'm still about 20 pages behind but I gotta take a break and go run a couple errands so I wanted to drop some thoughts.

You guys got some great interactions from Lunatic, and based on them I think we can be nearly certain that Skynx, Rels, and DandelH are town for the way they started pressure on Lunatic. Stutters also kinda got spewed town, though tbh I kinda doubt his early game play comes from scum anyhow.

Calix also brought up some stuff early on about Lunatic, but the associative read here isn't as strong as the others. I'm tempted to think Calix is town for other reasons though.

Oh and

On September 27 2016 20:53 Tictock wrote:
Ok almost done with other stuff and I'll sink a couple hours into reading.

Tempted to start out by giving ptmc a quick and dirty townread for that little series of posts on pg 40 though.

That instinct was spot on.

I think I've also got a decent scum read based on associative stuff with Lunatic, but I want to get fully caught up before I get into that.

Xatalos

Finland9675 Posts

September 27 2016 15:43 GMT

#809

On September 28 2016 00:01 Tictock wrote:
Ok I'm still about 20 pages behind but I gotta take a break and go run a couple errands so I wanted to drop some thoughts.

You guys got some great interactions from Lunatic, and based on them I think we can be nearly certain that Skynx, Rels, and DandelH are town for the way they started pressure on Lunatic. Stutters also kinda got spewed town, though tbh I kinda doubt his early game play comes from scum anyhow.

Calix also brought up some stuff early on about Lunatic, but the associative read here isn't as strong as the others. I'm tempted to think Calix is town for other reasons though.

Oh and

Show nested quote +

That instinct was spot on.

I think I've also got a decent scum read based on associative stuff with Lunatic, but I want to get fully caught up before I get into that.

Could you elaborate on that part? I was just reading Skynx and his filter suggested the opposite to me.

Xatalos

Finland9675 Posts

September 27 2016 15:45 GMT

#810

To clarify: he did mention that Lunatic's first post was bad, but after that didn't do anything about Lunatic during D1. Lunatic's first post wasn't really relevant to lynching him anyway.

Xatalos

Finland9675 Posts

September 27 2016 15:47 GMT

#811

I guess you could look at it as being anti-Lunatic in a sense.

Xatalos

Finland9675 Posts

September 27 2016 15:48 GMT

#812

Well, not really. It's more like "bad intro post" -> "ignore" -> .... -> profit? :D

Xatalos

Finland9675 Posts

September 27 2016 15:51 GMT

#813

Hm. Actually it's worse than I thought initially.

Tictock

United States6051 Posts

September 27 2016 16:06 GMT

#814

I'm trying to avoid quoting and posting while catching up, but...

On September 26 2016 06:18 Jealous wrote:
Xan - it's awkward for me to look back on my phone to make sure that it was him trying to create a second train, but if it was indeed him I'd have to say it seems like a stupid thing to attempt so openly and at this juncture. Stupidity isn't necessarily AI but in theory, taking votes off Lunaticman and creating the potential for shennanies (which are popular on TL and thus unfortunately not always AI)... Could be a dumb scum move. If it was not Xan who did this, attribute the same reasoning to whoever else it was that initiated this thought, and apologies to Xan.

Jealous can you restate this for me, or give me an updated version of what you were trying to say here?

Kus I can't figure out what you are trying to say here.

Xatalos

Finland9675 Posts

September 27 2016 16:06 GMT

#815

Ok, first there's this post:

On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.

Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.

You could look at it as a Lunatic push, but it's really not. It's just a random comment with no follow-up or relevance whatsoever. Could be distancing, could be a genuine throwaway comment, nothing conclusive either way. It was just a forgotten line in a forgotten post.

But after that he basically ignores everything Lunatic-related, only making these comments that can't be exactly called as anti-Lunatic:

On September 25 2016 04:37 Skynx wrote:
What makes you so soure Stutters pr Lunatic?

On September 26 2016 02:33 Skynx wrote:

Show nested quote +

Man I somehow feel like Luna is just misinformed town trying to cover up mistake of being lazy and saying he's blue.

AND then there's the worst part:

On September 26 2016 03:38 Skynx wrote:
Fuck me actually i dont think I'll have any time at all

I'm an ok lynch if u guys feel like it sry i thought i'd have more time to play but im kinda moving houses and uni begins tomorrow.

If not tho my top sr is DYH. His chain of questions few pages back really don't accomplish anything at all. It really looks like he's farming town points while doinh nothing.

Show nested quote +

On September 25 2016 10:16 DoYouHas wrote:

On September 25 2016 10:15 Jealous wrote:

On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote:

On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote:
I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it:

On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:

On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.

Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff.

Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.

Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.

I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.

This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!

This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.

Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts:

On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:

On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:

On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:

On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote:
Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in.

I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff.

On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
[quote]
Interesting idea. What does this achieve?
Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^

Also hi there.
I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you.
I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night.

Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis.

I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely.

As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself)

Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense.

Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange:

On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:
[quote]
This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata.

Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention.

Stutters:
[quote]
My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play.

Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation.

It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here.

On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
[quote]

Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.

Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.

I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.

This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!

This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out.

What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread?

Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?

Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here?

If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone?

Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.

Please explain

Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.

On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:

On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:

On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:

On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:

On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
[quote]

Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town.

Please explain

Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.

I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.

That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.

On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:

On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:

On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:

On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:

On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:
[quote]

Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least.

I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though.

That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read.

Why woudln't I do such a thing ?
So apparently you think I'm scum ?

No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet.

There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer.

The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle.

Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels.

Am I crazy for thinking this is an anti town post? Making Stutters out to be blue role with no nuance is downright retarded.

It is absolutely anti-town. Do you think it is bad play or scum?

Show nested quote +

I mean these supposed to make it look like he's pressuring Jealous for explanations but he sort of responds and nothing from DYH regarding his stance on Luna.

Then he switches to SEQ, stating bunch of thoughts which actually doesn't say anything.

Show nested quote +

Like there is not a final verdict, he says he doesnt bother him then bunch of thoughts filling the air and thats it.

Show nested quote +

This is kinda more evident of all tho, when he pushes Jealous for avoiding answering questions and he himself disappeara after this kind of questioning.

Yeh my top lynch target i guess, all of this above feels like activity for sake of activity to me.

Thats best i can do from phone guys, sory for being afk so far this game

Hopefully i can pick it up later on.

This post is basically saying just "lynch me or DYH". Nothing about Lunatic at this point. It would make a lot of sense if Skynx was just a Mafia Goon or something and it would suck to lose the Roleblocker, so it would be even better to kill himself than Lunatic? Naturally he votes for DYH though.

I guess this means DYH and Skynx probably aren't scum together though. But nothing really makes Skynx town and a lot of things fit with him being Lunatic's partner.

1) Mostly ignoring Lunatic-related events in the thread.
2) No real stance on him except slight reluctance to lynch him.
3) Ultimately preferring to even lynch himself over Lunatic....?

Moving on....

Xatalos

Finland9675 Posts

September 27 2016 16:14 GMT

#816

DYH is a bit in the same boat (reluctance to lynch Lunatic and slightly defending him throughout D1). I can relate to his play more than to Skynx though. DYH is basically saying that Lunatic made an anti-town play and "shut down" due to the pressure, but it doesn't necessarily make him scum, even if he's still a reasonable lynch. It's not far from how I thought at the time, so I can give DYH a bit of lenience. Well, it doesn't look good that DYH only agrees to vote on Lunatic once it's already a done deal, but I can at least see some townie potential there unlike really with Skynx...

Xatalos

Finland9675 Posts

September 27 2016 16:18 GMT

#817

I mean - DYH's stance is sensible, in a way, even though it's wrong. But Skynx's stance just doesn't make much sense from town perspective (Lunatic's intro is bad -> no follow-up ever? no real stance on Lunatic events? reluctance to lynch him even more so than himself being lynched....?).

Tictock

United States6051 Posts

September 27 2016 16:21 GMT

#818

Nah Skynx is town brah.

Mafia very rarely call out their teammates like that so early, even if it was somewhat throwaway.

You are right he never pushed Lunatic very hard, so it's not so weird that he doesn't mention him in that big post you quoted. Besides that post is overall actually pretty decent with the points he brings about DYH.

I also have a hard time buying that one of Luna's scum mates would offer themselves up like you are implying while also making a halfway decent case on someone at the same time, and never try to cash in on any bus potential.

Xatalos

Finland9675 Posts

September 27 2016 16:23 GMT

#819

Hm, looking at Rels' case though, DYH looks a bit worse than I thought.

Could it really be as simple as Skynx+DYH.......

Probably not. But I bet my Mafia career at least one of them is scum at this point.

Xatalos

Finland9675 Posts

September 27 2016 16:27 GMT

#820

On September 28 2016 01:21 Tictock wrote:
Nah Skynx is town brah.

Mafia very rarely call out their teammates like that so early, even if it was somewhat throwaway.

You are right he never pushed Lunatic very hard, so it's not so weird that he doesn't mention him in that big post you quoted. Besides that post is overall actually pretty decent with the points he brings about DYH.

I also have a hard time buying that one of Luna's scum mates would offer themselves up like you are implying while also making a halfway decent case on someone at the same time, and never try to cash in on any bus potential.

Wouldn't really say that, I've seen it happen. It's pretty "cheap" to make some forgettable comments at the start of the game. It could just be an easy distancing plot - no cost associated, maybe someone will townread him for it later. He never posted against Lunatic or the like again so it really was throwaway....

I somehow doubt he would have gained anything from voting Lunatic at that point. He had already been reluctant and didn't have a reason to vote for him other than bandwagoning. Might as well vote some random target?

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